Dawah is such a handsome man but a crazy motherfucker. I usually don't find men with mustache's attractive but it actually looks good on him but damn, he's gotta get his head straight!
I don't think he fully realizes that his religious justification for self defense and retaliation against the percieved threat of the "Sleeping Giant" is the same justification that muslim extremists use to wage jihad against the west. Do they not believe that they are righteous in defending themselves, innocents, and Islam against the "Giant" of western ideals?
I think we've seen this clown trip himself up consistently enough with his own vindictive lies and actions to have a feel for where he's coming from. People like Dawah are only a handful of setbacks away from carrying out the violent acts they relish fantasizing out loud about.
Considering the amount of hyperbole in TF00ts 'SouthPark' video, for Dawah to unpack and dissect.. He chose a very naive way to respond. He simply became a case in point for TF, and has seemingly sought to reinforce that role for himself ever since.
Terrorist don't have to kill people, they just have to cause terror/fear/unease hence the TERRORist. If ThunderF00t at anytime has felt terror/fear/unease then DawahFilms is a terrorist. Just because you don't blow up someone/something doesn't mean you aren't a terrorist.
Top work CompleteRationality. Great series. As far as an analysis Ali doesnt seem to bright, yet if i were him or pcs I would really really dislike Tf. Nothing sucks more than losing an argument to your intellectual better. You've got no reasonable comeback. I think this may go a long way to explain the (idiotic and sometimes criminal) actions of both pcs and Ali.
DawahFilms is acting in a similar manner to a terrorist and depending on your interpretation of the word terrorist, then you might say he IS being a terrorist. A civilised, diplomatic way to handle a debate is to meet words with words. I suggest DawahFilms is acting more like a terrorist in trying to shut his critics up by applying actual damage to them. Isn't he supposed to be a proponent for Islam? He's association to Islam suggests Islamic values (and Muslims) are extremely distasteful.
IF DF hadn't cited the Qu'ran when he issued his threat to kill TF for simply trying to awaken the "sleeping giant". I would say his religion was irrelevant. But the use of religious texts to justify things like killing people simply for expressing their right to free speech is one of the issues many of us have with religion. Even IF TF were suggesting the nuclear option to deal with Muslim extremists, though I think he clearly wasn't, he has the right to express that opinion.
I enjoyed all four parts. I also agree with almost everything, so I seem to have little to add. DF seems to be whiny, and always tries to play the victim card. TF on the other hand uses language that sometimes pierces through. I believe this whole issue was escalated by DF himself and now he is playing the victim. I think he should take advice from You Tubers and just stop trying to beat TF who has thirty times more subscriptions. Just walk away DF....just walk away....just walk away.......
@sh00008 Ha, I think you and I are in total agreement. You can follow the link in the description to read my blog. There, I have my full opinion on the matter.
@sh00008 Actually, it's Thunderf00t who just won't let this thing go. Just when you think this whole drama is over, TF makes another video trying to slander Dawahfilms. Just recently he made a video about Youtube censoring videos that offend religion, and he blamed Dawahfilms on being behind it all, even when there's no evidence that is was DF at all!
@stephjuhler999-Just when you think this whole drama is over, TF makes another video trying to slander Dawahfilms.
You mean just when you think the whole drama is over DawahFilms by his own admission files additional DMCA's, and privacy violation claims against a number of TF's video's, and additionally takes credit for, and gloats over several having been removed. Only an idiot would argue that TF making a video responding to DF's latest actions was HIM not letting things go.
@SeltsamerAttraktor Nope, there is nothing left to do. I could do a conclusion video, but it wouldn't add on to anything. It would just be the last word.
4:37: Dawahfilms knew the university Thunderf00t worked at last year. A nobody like me with a fleeting interest knew the university where Thunderf00t worked last year, a deranged nut would. Technically, DF isn't doc dropping, but there's no need to deal with technicalities when dealing with a whacko.
Simple analysis - Dawahmoron is a wannabe terrorist who tried to use real world action to silence his favorite whipping boy. And now that he's stirred up a shitstorm he's trying to weasel his way out of it by blaming others, namely Coughlan. IMO at the least his channel should be shut down. Preferably the little bastard should be sued and/or face criminal charges (but I dunno if that's possible at this stage).
@CompleteRationality because i've both had sex, and followed this silly drama, sex wins. someone tell these guys it's fucking youtube and not a fight for civilization? delusions of grandeur much?
I we remember, TF, and others, had PCS's docs and never dropped them, even after countless false DCMA's... in fact, they protected them, PCS and his family. They even let loose of the legalities and came to an agreement. DF comes across as a whiner... and someone that is trying to make a bigger name for himself on YT. I never watched his stuff prior, not will I after this. The content has changed slightly, but it is the same argument. DF's death threat was him bringing a knife to a gun fight.
I truly believe that it was in fact a death threat simply because it was a "warning" and the word "innocent" doesn't change anything. "Send you to the god that you wish you knew" implies the following: When you see God, it means you are dead, therefore sending someone to god can be very well taken as killing them.
I can conclude that Dawah went overdrive and tried to use the image attached to that kind of muslims (ie, beard, fanaticism on the word) to create some kind of fear or awe and use it as leverage.
I'll Accept for argument's sake that TF does get on his "high horse" on such matters and focus on DawahFilms. His story keeps changing. Even in the clip, first he didn't look for docs, then did, then got them, then didn't use them, then did. The story changes so fast it's hard to keep up.
I suspect that DawahFilms overestimates his own intelligence and cunning, while simultaneously leaning heavily on emotions and thus gets himself into problems which he then tries to fix with attempted cunning.
I still wonder, why you would bring such lines as "as mandated in the quuaarraaaan" and "the true interpretation of the shariaa" and "we will send you to the god you wish you knew", if you are merely under the impression that someone is about the start a genocide. If that was the case, why not simply call him out on it and bingo, you look like a reasonable human being instead of a religious fanatic idiot.
@t3nGu666 Those lines are correct but you can't ignore that he had the qualifier "innocents" which he didn't think Tf00t had used. They both used qualifiers, they both ignored the other persons qualifiers, and they're both acting like douches.
@CompleteRationality If i remember correctly it was only in the response because DF said it. Is there a part of one of TF's clips where he acknowledges it in some way? (by his own voice or text overlay)
Actually in a comment that DawahFilms made to another user, he wrote (and I quote) "I actually gave the location to where the docs could be found to 4 of his subs who were concerned and even told one of them to have it deleted"
He then goes on "4 people loyal to Tf00t. Yeah, that sounds like I'm "out to get him" and that I'm mass doc dropping"
I've got the page as a snapshot.
So yes, he gained access to docs and has distributed them to at least 4 people.
What is the distinction between what he admits to doing and doc dropping? If I discover an anonymous gay blogger is a teacher, and first threaten him, and when he doesn't submit to my blackmail send his real name, and blogs to the principal, and all the teachers at his school am I not doc dropping? Or how about sending that info to the boss, and colleagues of an anonymous Iranian atheist blogger living in Iran?
I submit that Ali is no better than the people who would do that, and those who support him, or try to mitigate what he did are no better than those who would support those actions.
I'm sure the person dropping the docs of the teacher would argue there are "real life consequences" to a gay teacher teaching children. Likewise an atheist spreading his atheism in Iran could get people killed. Shouldn't those people be stopped?
I think they both been acting like asses, but I'm not sure I saw Dawahfilms original response as a threat, more as a warning, the same way if you look like you might strike me I might warn you if you do I will hit you back or have you arrested or something.
I'm guessing DF was sitting on TF's docs for some time waiting for him to make his next islam-related video so he could use that as an opportunity to release his "final straw" video and do what he had been planning to do since the doc hunting incident last year.
I can see why both guys reacted the way they did. DF is a muslim and I see why he got defensive, because that's what religious people do, and even though I didn't find anything DF said as threatening I can see why TF would see them as threatening since muslims have sent threats his way in the past. In my opinion its a childish feud.
I believe that Dawahfilms did indeed interprete tfoot's video wrong and i'm sure he felt and feels humiliated when tfoot shows that rather unfavorable clip of him and simply wanted to return the favor.
I don't think DF ever made a death threat against TF. Like TF's sleeping giant remark, DF was referring to collective action taken against those who hurt innocents, and this was based on an admitted misunderstanding of what TF meant. Also, DF has denounced Islamic terrorism and death threats against ZOMGitsCriss. So I believe TF has portrayed DF unfairly. But I also think DF has taken things too far by revealing TF's first name and trying to get him fired. Continued.
If TF had called the FBI, I don't think would have been wrong if he felt threatened. From what I can tell, Dawa escalated the situation, and did a very bad thing by trying to get TF fired and dragging his family into it. Dawa is in the wrong. If Dawa had let the matter drop, then TF and Dawa could each go on with their lives. Instead Dawa had to do a bad thing, TF may take some sort of legal action against Dawa, or do sometime to ensure something like does does not happen again.
DF was caught lying so many times. First he was lying about not being hunting for TF's docs, he was caught. Then he lied about the FBI issue, he claimed that TF himself contacted the FBI and that HappyCabbie and ZOMGitsCriss could testify to that. At least HC denied. He then changed this story, and claims that TF is responsible for his subs who allegedly contacted the FBI. Yet he failed to provide any evidence for that.It isn't such a stretch to claim that he is lying about the doc dropping too.
TF made a statement basically saying 'be civil or face the consequences.'
DF then made a statement saying 'Harm an innocent, and face the consequences'
Which is clearly exactly what TF was complaining about in the first place. DF both agrees with TF's sentinment, and his idea of justice. Yet still opposes him.
Personally, I just think it was a misunderstanding on DF's part and TF instigated.
My analysis is this: Nothing TF said cannot be supported (Except maybe if he really did call Dawah a non-national, but that is relatively minor.) There was no legal defamation and any ethical lawyer would tell Dawah as much.
Dawah did issue a death threat, he did at a stage hunt for TF's docs, and he did try to harm TF's career. What TF said is objectively true.
Does that mean TF was fair? Not entirely. TF should have acknowledged Dawah retracting his threat at the very least.
@Tokeloshe123 There are still issues which the retractions and clarifications Dawah brought in do not cover. I would have been better if TF had pointed those out instead of ignoring the retraction entirely.
Due to the fair comment nature of TF's statements (Fair comment ain't always fair) Dawah's attempts at other forms of recourse failed. Dawah thus got angry.
This was in part egged on by him being trolled, and adopted as a cause by trolls - one side provoking and the other encouraged.
@Tokeloshe123 The FBI may or may not have been involved.
Without legitimate avenues to pursue because in real terms his grounds weren't all that legitimate, Dawah hunted TF's docs but didn't have the expertise to find them and gave up.
A user then contacted Dawah with the docs and what he did with them is exactly why you don't doc drop. He was in the wrong and lost a huge portion of his support base as a result. TF supporters still support TF, Dawah supporters say they are both jerks.
@Tokeloshe123 Dawah is currently in damage control mode - but trying to play victim in this isn't really winning him any points. It is not like the taboo on this issue hadn't been explained to him.
He isn't entirely unsympathetic - he was portrayed in his worst possible light and became a posterboy for a lot of attacks on his community. Those attacks were not always just.
However he became that posterboy through his own actions, and it is thus that one cannot really stand by him.
@Tokeloshe123 In conclusion: While Thunderf00t wasn't blameless, Dawah is in the position he is in because of Dawah. He transgressed a clear line in community standards, and was stupid enough to boast about it. His fight with Thunderf00t was one he picked, and he should have had the spine to argue it. His excuses come off as weak. Dawah got pwned.
His wisest course if he wants to continue on YouTube would be to release unrelated videos for a while and simply avoid TF as a topic in future.
@Tokeloshe123-TF should have acknowledged Dawah retracting his threat at the very least.
The problem with that is that TF, when asked in blogtv said he didn't believe Ali misunderstood the sleeping giant video, but that he intentionally misrepresented it in an attempt to assassinate his character to his mostly Muslim audience, and it wasn't until the shit storm after TF responded (something he couldn't have anticipated) that he tried weasel out .
@TheNakedAtheist Is TF wrong for being cynical about Dawah's "retraction"? I don't think so. I myself even doubt that Dawah misinterpreted that video. If you follow the link in the description to my analysis, you might find something interesting.
I wanted to add that point I'm making is that IF TF had acknowledged it he would have portrayed it as he saw it. Which was as a disingenuous attempt by a "self proclaimed moderate" to justify his death threats as a misunderstanding when they got more negative attention than he expected. And that would have only further fueled the flames, and added to the drama.
My analsis haha, Tf00t made some broad generalizations no doubt, and I think theres guys like Klingschor who have done a much better job criticing kevin and islam as a whole, but overall I still think hes trounced kevin on this topic. I can look back and see what dawah films that line about defending innocent people and yah I get that. That being said, tfoot didnt make any death threats, kevin did. At this point kevin and his whole kung fu jihad is a joke, and his doc dropping is just weak.
I heard from some people that a user named jack11994 or something like that has done the doc hunting and dropping, and it is clear that this user ain't a friend of thunderf00t (he's like 16 or 17 and is apart from that inactive on youtube). I also heard that this video had just 100 views. So the question is: who found it, to whom did he send it? (at least Coughlan, and maybe also DawahFilms?), was he the one who further spread this file? Or was it Dawah who spread the file?
It doesn't matter what TF's employer thinks about his online persona or about what he said there, it only matters that DramaFilms tried to maliciously interfere with his real life, tried to get him fired, over some shit on the internet. That and that alone was the purpose of contacting his coworkers and his employer, to hurt him in real life. That is so sick, that it beggars description.
And now he tries to justify it and to quibble over details. Sick man, sick.
1:40 thats precisely what tf00t did to venomfangx! Not to say two wrongs make a right, but to ignore ALL the times tf00t crossed lines and only focus on Dawah is dishonest to say the least.
They're Both douchebags who should leave youtube.
you also quote mined Dawah. This is just propaganda.
@ReignbowSmite Dawah was not quotemined and NONE of this is propaganda. You obviously don't know the story of VenomFangX, he went around filing FALSE DMCA's.
@CompleteRationality so? That gave tf00t the right to contact his parents and threaten not only his fiancial support but his education. Yes it was quote mined. you completely skipped where he said tf00ts friend dropped his docs in May. Dawah didnt drop any docs and you made it appear as though he searched for them until HE found them and dropped them.
totally quotemind... mr "rational".
I maintain that you are dishonest and this video is propaganda.
@ReignbowSmite When the incident happened, I think VenomFangX was a minor, so it was inevitable that his parents were forced into it all. WHAT? What you just said makes absolutely no sense. I included the part where he said that his docs were dropped in May. Nothing else needs to be said. No, I didn't make it seem as if he searched for them and found them. It's people like you who don't pay attention to my extended effort of clarity in the video. (4:29) (6:30) You are a loser.
@CompleteRationality Im a loser? how much time did you spend on this Jerry Springer documentary about a couple of internet nobodies with conflicting superiority complexes? Tf00t and Ali are a waste of time on their own, never mind someones commentary.
I believe you're wrong, Shaun was attending university at the time. Tf00t did the same thing Ali did.
@CompleteRationality because regretfully I was subscribed to you when you uploaded this shit. Unfortunately this multi-part drama about LITERALLY NOTHING was taking up space in my subs page. "I never asserted that VenomFangX was a minor" I never said you said he was a minor. You said he may have been, so I clarified.
@ReignbowSmite-Shaun was attending university at the time. Tf00t did the same thing Ali did.
VFX DMCA'd one of DPRJones video's. The address he gave was his home address. In the course of his legal response he (DPRJones) either sent paperwork to, or called that address in an attempt to come to some sort of agreement short of having to take VFX to court, and somehow ended up in conversation with VFX's father. Trying to equate that with what DF did shows you are an idiot.
@ReignbowSmite VFX has also scammed on charity money. VFX was about to get sued over the shit that he has done. So it was in fact benevolent of TF and dpr to contact his parents in that matter (as VFX was still quite young and living with his parents), before things could get out of control.
@SeltsamerAttraktor theres a legal route for that. Something Ali should have fucking done in the first place.
they're both assholes who deserve a Brett keane ip ban.
To be honest,they're not worth any comment I make because I don't care except to say Im sick of them both and am equally as sick of peoples personal commentary on the topic.
@SeltsamerAttraktor I did. I'm pretty sure vfx was not at home, he was living near his campus. His parents threatened to stop paying for him to attend school. Don't hold me to that because it's been a while and my memory reserves space for beneficial information.
@ReignbowSmite Well, I can't remember this so well either.But let's agree that the situation was quite different, okay? VFX was in big trouble for the DMCAs and the scam.He would have been put in jail for this,if TF and dpr didn't tried to resolve the matter otherwise.All that TF now did was to disagree with DF, to repeatedly portray him as some kind of posterboy for islamic stupidity, and not being willing to resolve it.Legal action would have been more appropriate than trying to get him fired.
@SeltsamerAttraktor "All that TF now did was to disagree with DF" thats an out right lie. tf misrepresented and quote mined df, making him look like a terrorist. If df took tf to court for defamation, tf would lose. df tried MANY times to rectify the situation. Tf decided to continue his propaganda instead.
@ReignbowSmite how? your fucking comment is above mine? everyone can read it. I quoted that part specifically because Tf00t didnt have any disagreement, he refused to talk to df!
There wasn't anything they talked about to disagree on. Tfoot didn't make any arguments.
@ReignbowSmite People don't need to talk about something in order to disagree about it. Obviously DF and TF disagree about Islam and the nature of the universe.
"If df took tf to court for defamation, tf would lose." People disagree about that, and even if he'd loose, he would not be put into jail for this (unlike VFX).
"df tried MANY times to rectify the situation. Tf decided to continue his propaganda instead." This is why I said he should have taken legal action instead of starting shit.
@SeltsamerAttraktor "Obviously DF and TF disagree about Islam and the nature of the universe." How do you know?! Do you think tf00t knows that dawah accepts evolution? Tf00t refused every discussion df asked for! They NEVER had a single dialog and that was tf00t's decision! Haven't you noticed tf00t doesn't have an argument? He has a crusade.
@ReignbowSmite "How do you know?! " Are you some kind of troll, man? Df believes that a magical man in the sky created the universe and sent some messenger down to the earth who was once on a trip to Jerusalem on some magical flying horse, where he met Jesus and Moses, and subsequently laid down what to eat and how to shit and when to wage war against the infidels and whatnot. Tf obviously does not.
@SeltsamerAttraktor what specifically do they disagree on? Be sheer chance someone believes in a god, they should be painted in such a light? Tf00t has never made ONE SINGLE ARGUMENT to Dawah. It was purely a fucking smear campaign and character assassination there's no question there.
Do you have a hard time reading? Put your glasses on! Df not only beliefs in a god but also that the QuuRRRrran is his word and Momo his messenger. Otherwise he wouldn't be a Muslim. He buys what this book claims, including said story below. Tf is an atheist. They disagree. Period. And it's questionable that how Tf has portrayed Df would qualify as defamation/slander,
since he only attacked his online persona and the light and the light in which
@SeltsamerAttraktor Is that a reason to dismiss, dehumanize, and try to smear someones reputation??? with out even talking to the person? JUST because they identify as muslim?
" And it's questionable that how Tf has portrayed Df would qualify as defamation/slander" LOL
@ReignbowSmite "Is that a reason to dismiss, dehumanize, and try to smear someones reputation???" I haven't said nor implied that. "with out even talking to the person?" I already stated that Tf handled the situation quite bad.
"JUST because they identify as muslim?" The same shit as believing some zombie walked the earth to relieve mankind from bad karma that the first human brought upon it just by eating a fricking apple in a magical garden.
Df has put himself into isn't that favourable either (death threat, doc hunting, lying about the FBI)! It takes a judge to decide that, that's why I support legal action! But he has decided to throw around with shit like a little child instead.
And why do you refuse to read what other people tell you, and why do you start throwing around with insults?
@SeltsamerAttraktor it wasnt a death threat, he made a clarification video, appologized for misenterpreting tf00ts video as calling for a genocide. Ali asked tf00t to clarify. Tf00t ignored it!
doc hunting - are you the thought crime police?
lying about the fbi - we dont know either way, so argument dismissed. I agree Ali should have taken legal action instead, but tf00t should have sought the legal route with vfx too.
@ReignbowSmite Saying such words in a world where people dozens of people got murdered by fanatical Muslims or have gone into hiding, was knowingly playing on very thin ice.
"doc hunting" He did that in order to harm Tf in RL. Proof for that exists.
"lying about the fbi" He claimed that Tf contacted the FBI over him and that HC and ZOMGitsChriss could testify.
"but tf00t should have sought the legal route with vfx too." VFX would have gone into jail. Dpr is a lawyer.
@SeltsamerAttraktor And I don't know if you fucking noticed, but none of tfoots videos about Islam have so far not brought up anything in the quran. Merely bigoted attacks based on middle eastern cultural stereotypes, Idiot.
@ReignbowSmite VFX was living at home with his parents during the first Thunderf00t incident, but lived at the campus during the latter episode, in which he falsely accused dprJones of breaking the DMCA.
@OverusedArgument regardless, tfoot still used vfx docs as a weapon to disturb his life off of youtube, JUST LIKE ALI. You cant defend one with out defending the other.
In BOTH cases things should have been either dismissed or dealt with through the legal system. Not through threats that could potentially be interpreted as blackmail.
fyi tfoot made the first "threat" he was fishing for a muzzie to be his next "poster boy" to try and prove all Muslims are terrorists.
@AmetReloads ...letting his parents straight him out.
But of course in your paranoid bigoted full hatred and empathy mind, facts are irrelevant..
Thunderfoot wasnt even aware of Dodofilms before he issued his death treat against Tf..
..Death treat that he stood by,for months refusing to take it back, for what ever crazy reasoning..
Stalking , harassment, death treats, blackmailing thunderfoot out of his free speech, obsessive compulsive behavior .. all of them were DF's doing, not the victim's.
@ReignbowSmite I'm not defending anyone here, I think they're both wrong (Dawah through his ethically questionable behaviour and TF for not acknowledging the clear misunderstandings that caused all of these issues, and thus committing an act of intellectual dishonesty. NB that everyone makes mistakes, and I would continue to support TF if he were to admit that he has been wrong about something here. Dawah, on the other hand, has lost my support by mixing YT drama with the real life.)
@OverusedArgument-the clear misunderstandings that caused all of these issues
What clear misunderstanding is that? Ali made a video that in TF's opinion was an intentional characterization of this sleeping giant in order to assassinate his character to, what at that time, was his mostly theist audience, and included a thinly veiled death threat, and TF fought back.
@TheNakedAtheist DF already corrected this misunderstanding. What actually happened is that he had misunderstood the "Sleeping giant" -rhetoric TF encouraging genocide against all muslims. DF already has acknowledged that he misinterpreted TF's intention about the "sleeping giant", so what I hope from TF is that he'd acknowledge that there was no intention of making a death threat, and thus the "death threat" made by DF is meaningless in all possible ways.
@OverusedArgument Actually, DF only "claims" that he misunderstood TF. A lot of people don't buy it. For one, I don't even see how he could have misinterpreted what TF said at all. If you are interested in my full opinion on this, just click the link in the description to head over to my blog.
@CompleteRationality I have a problem with the idea that he "only claims" it, as his word is all the evidence there are or can be about this issue, and thus I'd say that the only intellectually honest decision from us would be to trust him on that, no matter how impossible it seems to misunderstand TF on what he said. Emphasis on the word "seems" as I can easily imagine misunderstanding TF's statement. We must remember how vastly people's thought processes can be. Cont.
@OverusedArgument Following is an analysis of a possible scenario about how DF felt and thought about the "sleeping giant" statement:
-Overall first impression of the statement was a hostile one, noting how TF sounded angry.
-Due to the perceived hostility, DF's mind became defensive, and thus put his focus on the perceived hostile parts of TF's statement instead of the parts that caused the statement to be non-hostile overall.
-DF thus answered without complete understanding of the situation.
@TheNakedAtheist The only first impression that is currently relevant here is that of DawaFilms' which demonstrably was a hostile one and this is supported by how Dawah's "death threat" against TF was conditionally worded.
My point is relevant to your assertion that "the only intellectually honest decision from us would be to trust him on that". Considering things like whether it was reasonable for him to come to the conclusion he did is only way we can form an opinion since as I said above that the only intellectually honest decision otherwise would be to withhold judgment.
@TheNakedAtheist I did not argue that his conclusion was reasonable, I'd even say that he was in the wrong. What I did argue, however, was that due to momentary incapability to see the whole picture, he only knew of premises which would've justified his anger. Note that I acknowledge that because he didn't notice all of the necessary information, DF was in the wrong.
@OverusedArgument As I have a tendency to communicate unclearly, I shall reword what I meant:
If a judgement was necessary, we'd have to use the evidence available to reach a conclusion, and due to the nature of the question, the only possible evidence is DF's word about how he misinterpreted TF's statement. Thus questioning DF's claim about misunderstanding is absolutely a dead-end, which would rid our whole discussion of any meaning, reducing it to kids' screaming.
@OverusedArgument-I'd say that the only intellectually honest decision from us would be to trust him on that
Um no, the only intellectually honest decision would be to withhold judgment. Now we could form an opinion if we have a good reason to consider the source trustworthy, but I see no reason TF should consider DF to be trustworthy, particular given the fact that an "apology" in those circumstances was self serving.
@OverusedArgument-as his word is all the evidence there are or can be about this issue, and thus I'd say that the only intellectually honest decision from us would be to trust him on that
Having reread that statement after responding to your response to my other comment I can only face-palm. Please send me $10k, and I will send you $20k in a week. Oh BTW did you know there is a teapot circling the sun in the asteroid belt. Sorry couldn't help myself. lol
@TheNakedAtheist No worries, I could barely read what you said anyway due to my eyes bleeding. lol
Joking aside, for the sake of the argument I go with your analogies (except for Russel reference, see BionicDance's videos on the difference between confidence and faith to see a flawed but working explanation of why I dismiss this part):
Comparing the scam you'd use to rid me off of $10k, if you were to soon "undo" the crime by giving me the money back, I'd have no problem. Analogy for apology.
@OverusedArgument-see BionicDance's videos on the difference between confidence and faith to see a flawed but working explanation of why I dismiss this part):
BD is a idiot, and the last person you should be listening to for sound philosophy.
@TheNakedAtheist I absolutely agree that she isn't the brightest bulb around, but I think she does make has a good point about how belief in the idea that y will perform the act of z is different from belief in existence of x.
We see y doing z all the time, (although sometimes ¬z instead) but we've never noticed an x.
As CR pointed out TF has stated when asked that he doesn't believe DF "misinterpreted" his sleeping giant video. He believes he intentionally mischaracterized it in order to make him look like some sort of genocidal maniac. He also believes Ali's apology was disingenuous, and only made because he realized he was getting the worst of the exchange by virtue of TF having 10x as many subs as he did.
@TheNakedAtheist What TF believes about the situation makes little difference to whether or not DF did misinterpret TF's "giant" rhetoric in the first place. If anything, I'd shrug and state, with a sad tone: "Misunderstandings pile upon misunderstandings, and soon shit -will- hit the fan..."
@OverusedArgument-What TF believes about the situation makes little difference to whether or not DF did misinterpret TF's "giant" rhetoric in the first
It's relevant to whether there were any misunderstandings as you asserted. There were only misunderstandings if you accept Dawah's claim that he misunderstood the sleep giant metaphor.
@TheNakedAtheist Due to the nature of the claim of whether or not Dawah actually misunderstood the sleeping giant statement, we can come to 2 different "conclusions" and those 2 only: Either we
a)Don't make any judgement regarding it or
b)Trust Dawah's word about what he thought.
(Please inform me if this is a false dilemma, I'd love to know how other answers are possible)
I suppose that you'd pick a, in which case we arrive at a dead-end, and I can't see how we could talk about this at all.
@OverusedArgument To repeat: What TF believes about how DF's mind works is irrelevant as is what I believe about it or what you believe about it. Opinions cannot change reality, unless we're talking about what I think I think, in which case it'd all be circular xP
@OverusedArgument-To repeat: What TF believes about how DF's mind works is irrelevant
He's not judging how his mind works. He's judging a claim from DF about how his mind works. If he has no good reason to believe or disbelieve that claim he would a), and act as though it was never made. If he believes it's more likely a lie (because it's self serving) he might choose c). You're seem very confused here overused.
@TheNakedAtheist What else do you base the judgement about DF's claim's truth-value other than a motive claim to have misunderstood?
My point is that claiming that he had misunderstood the sleeping giant metaphor is self-serving regardless of whether it's true or not. Thus it doesn't indicate nor does it imply that he lied.
@OverusedArgument-What else do you base the judgement about DF's claim's truth-value other than a motive claim to have misunderstood?
We've already covered that. You can base it on the likelihood that the sleeping giant metaphor could be misunderstood, any information you might have regarding the person making the claims character, how sincere you judge the person to be when they make the claim. If you don't take those things into account you can only say "I don't know".
@TheNakedAtheist Suffering from Asperger's, I can assure you that it can be -very- easy for -anyone- (with autistic spectrum or not) to misunderstand almost -anything- and from personal experience, TF's metaphor was especially easy to misunderstand. We have to take into account the strong emotions both clearly had at the time, and knowing how emotions shroud sight from some facts, it's even easier to misunderstand.
Wandering into estimating sincerity/character is pure social speculation.
If we had reason to believe DF's was suffering from something that might affect his comprehension skills it would be evidence in his favor. The rest of your comment seems to have veered completely from your former assertion that we should take him at his word. I agree it's a judgement call. Which brings us back to my point when I called you on your assertion that thus was all based on a misunderstanding.
If you had simply said "in my opinion all these issues were cause by a misunderstanding" I likely never would have replied to your comment, but you were claiming knowledge you couldn't possible have.
@TheNakedAtheist My point, which I did convey poorly, was that it is easy for -anyone- to misunderstand these statements, DF not having limited social skills doesn't diminish this fact.
I don't claim knowledge of whether he did or didn't misinterpret the "giant" metaphor, but I claim that there is no evidence to suggest that he was (or wasn't) lying. All you have offered to help make the judgement call is nothing more than your subjective interpretation of DF's character, and thus useless. cont
@OverusedArgument I do, however, acknowledge that my initial comment seemed as if I believed to have absolute knowledge about the origin of the drama. In all honesty this wasn't my intention, I knew back then as well as I do now that they're merely how I see the situation. I see of no reason of distrusting Dawah on something that has so little to do with me, and even if I were to believe that he lied, I'd argue that it's fine, as Dawah has taken back his death threat. cont.
@OverusedArgument The following might sound silly, in which case simply inform me of the flaws of my reasoning without face-palming, thus saving your hand and my emotions from unnecessary harm xP
How does questioning Dawah's honesty about his own thoughts differ from a theist claiming that we deny God only because we want to sin?
You're correct if you're saying there is no empirical evidence to suggest whether he's lying or not lying, but there is circumstantial evidence that can be be used to make that judgement, and it wasn't my intent to offer you anything to make any judgement. My intent was simply to point out taking his word for it is not the "intellectually honest" thing to do, and that there is no evidence for the claim that there were misunderstandings involved.
In fact, but of course it's highly unlikely, TF could be a genocidal maniac, DF absolutely correct when he characterized it that way, and DF could have meant what he said as a death threat, and in that scenario there are no misunderstandings involved either. :p
@TheNakedAtheist The circumstantial evidence provided still remains subject to heavy interpretation, and thus carries very little weight. And like I already stated, if we question DF's claims about his thoughts, we must let theists question our non-/lack of belief. If you are alright with that, then fine, as long as you're consistent, you're fantastic :D
In short, if you question whether or not DF misunderstood the metaphor, I'll accuse you of being a closeted muslim yourself xD
Dawah is such a looser and crybaby.
berrywoke 4 days ago
Dawah is such a handsome man but a crazy motherfucker. I usually don't find men with mustache's attractive but it actually looks good on him but damn, he's gotta get his head straight!
GirlonFilm1969 2 weeks ago
Reminds me of The Clash song, Ivan Meets GI Joe.
tmesist 1 month ago in playlist More videos from CompleteRationality
I don't think he fully realizes that his religious justification for self defense and retaliation against the percieved threat of the "Sleeping Giant" is the same justification that muslim extremists use to wage jihad against the west. Do they not believe that they are righteous in defending themselves, innocents, and Islam against the "Giant" of western ideals?
HowDareY0U 3 months ago 2
I think we've seen this clown trip himself up consistently enough with his own vindictive lies and actions to have a feel for where he's coming from. People like Dawah are only a handful of setbacks away from carrying out the violent acts they relish fantasizing out loud about.
554466551 3 months ago
Very good, really well presented.
Considering the amount of hyperbole in TF00ts 'SouthPark' video, for Dawah to unpack and dissect.. He chose a very naive way to respond. He simply became a case in point for TF, and has seemingly sought to reinforce that role for himself ever since.
6Untitled9 3 months ago
It's ironic that, while I think TF's views of most muslims is wrong, it' perfectly applicable to Ali here
unassumption 3 months ago
Great work on your videos, keep it up.
ErikvonOxford 4 months ago
Terrorist don't have to kill people, they just have to cause terror/fear/unease hence the TERRORist. If ThunderF00t at anytime has felt terror/fear/unease then DawahFilms is a terrorist. Just because you don't blow up someone/something doesn't mean you aren't a terrorist.
WhereIsReligion 4 months ago
Top work CompleteRationality. Great series. As far as an analysis Ali doesnt seem to bright, yet if i were him or pcs I would really really dislike Tf. Nothing sucks more than losing an argument to your intellectual better. You've got no reasonable comeback. I think this may go a long way to explain the (idiotic and sometimes criminal) actions of both pcs and Ali.
RationalDrinker 4 months ago
2:46 " as a future public educator myself I...." Scariest thing i have heard in a long time.
iguire 4 months ago 6
@iguire Lol, you have a point there.
CompleteRationality 4 months ago
I quickly read your analysis and I feel that it was reasonable. Thanks for making this series. I just hope thunderf00t is ok.
twelvepointnine 4 months ago
DawahFilms is acting in a similar manner to a terrorist and depending on your interpretation of the word terrorist, then you might say he IS being a terrorist. A civilised, diplomatic way to handle a debate is to meet words with words. I suggest DawahFilms is acting more like a terrorist in trying to shut his critics up by applying actual damage to them. Isn't he supposed to be a proponent for Islam? He's association to Islam suggests Islamic values (and Muslims) are extremely distasteful.
LAnonHubbard 4 months ago 2
Comment removed
TheNakedAtheist 4 months ago
@LAnonHubbard
IF DF hadn't cited the Qu'ran when he issued his threat to kill TF for simply trying to awaken the "sleeping giant". I would say his religion was irrelevant. But the use of religious texts to justify things like killing people simply for expressing their right to free speech is one of the issues many of us have with religion. Even IF TF were suggesting the nuclear option to deal with Muslim extremists, though I think he clearly wasn't, he has the right to express that opinion.
TheNakedAtheist 4 months ago
@LAnonHubbard , sorry about the vote down i re-read and was mistaken.
RationalDrinker 4 months ago
I enjoyed all four parts. I also agree with almost everything, so I seem to have little to add. DF seems to be whiny, and always tries to play the victim card. TF on the other hand uses language that sometimes pierces through. I believe this whole issue was escalated by DF himself and now he is playing the victim. I think he should take advice from You Tubers and just stop trying to beat TF who has thirty times more subscriptions. Just walk away DF....just walk away....just walk away.......
sh00008 4 months ago
@sh00008 Ha, I think you and I are in total agreement. You can follow the link in the description to read my blog. There, I have my full opinion on the matter.
CompleteRationality 4 months ago
@sh00008 Actually, it's Thunderf00t who just won't let this thing go. Just when you think this whole drama is over, TF makes another video trying to slander Dawahfilms. Just recently he made a video about Youtube censoring videos that offend religion, and he blamed Dawahfilms on being behind it all, even when there's no evidence that is was DF at all!
stephjuhler999 16 hours ago in playlist Thunderf00t Vs DawahFilms: What Actually Happened
@stephjuhler999-Just when you think this whole drama is over, TF makes another video trying to slander Dawahfilms.
You mean just when you think the whole drama is over DawahFilms by his own admission files additional DMCA's, and privacy violation claims against a number of TF's video's, and additionally takes credit for, and gloats over several having been removed. Only an idiot would argue that TF making a video responding to DF's latest actions was HIM not letting things go.
TheNakedAtheist 13 hours ago
Any new Drama Film with DawahFilms? No conclusion video yet?
SeltsamerAttraktor 4 months ago
@SeltsamerAttraktor Nope, there is nothing left to do. I could do a conclusion video, but it wouldn't add on to anything. It would just be the last word.
CompleteRationality 4 months ago
4:37: Dawahfilms knew the university Thunderf00t worked at last year. A nobody like me with a fleeting interest knew the university where Thunderf00t worked last year, a deranged nut would. Technically, DF isn't doc dropping, but there's no need to deal with technicalities when dealing with a whacko.
robertmike57 4 months ago
Simple analysis - Dawahmoron is a wannabe terrorist who tried to use real world action to silence his favorite whipping boy. And now that he's stirred up a shitstorm he's trying to weasel his way out of it by blaming others, namely Coughlan. IMO at the least his channel should be shut down. Preferably the little bastard should be sued and/or face criminal charges (but I dunno if that's possible at this stage).
NightmareDeus 4 months ago
my analysis is that these geeks, and those meticulously following their drama, need to get laid.
BillKiernan 4 months ago
@BillKiernan Lol, how do you know that this isn't better than sex?
CompleteRationality 4 months ago
@CompleteRationality because i've both had sex, and followed this silly drama, sex wins. someone tell these guys it's fucking youtube and not a fight for civilization? delusions of grandeur much?
BillKiernan 4 months ago
I we remember, TF, and others, had PCS's docs and never dropped them, even after countless false DCMA's... in fact, they protected them, PCS and his family. They even let loose of the legalities and came to an agreement. DF comes across as a whiner... and someone that is trying to make a bigger name for himself on YT. I never watched his stuff prior, not will I after this. The content has changed slightly, but it is the same argument. DF's death threat was him bringing a knife to a gun fight.
messiahjonz 4 months ago
I truly believe that it was in fact a death threat simply because it was a "warning" and the word "innocent" doesn't change anything. "Send you to the god that you wish you knew" implies the following: When you see God, it means you are dead, therefore sending someone to god can be very well taken as killing them.
Excellent series.
twelvepointnine 4 months ago
@twelvepointnine Thanks and I agree with you on that. Swing over to the blog to get my full opinion. Link is in the description. :)
CompleteRationality 4 months ago
Loved every bit of this series.
I can conclude that Dawah went overdrive and tried to use the image attached to that kind of muslims (ie, beard, fanaticism on the word) to create some kind of fear or awe and use it as leverage.
He failed miserably and he went one step further.
Dawah is a despicable idiot.
TrolLTrollsky 4 months ago
@TrolLTrollsky Thanks. I'm glad you liked it.
CompleteRationality 4 months ago
and thunderf00t never even mentioned dawahfilms when he talked about islam, dawah started the drama himself.
fighterace2688 4 months ago
I'll Accept for argument's sake that TF does get on his "high horse" on such matters and focus on DawahFilms. His story keeps changing. Even in the clip, first he didn't look for docs, then did, then got them, then didn't use them, then did. The story changes so fast it's hard to keep up.
I suspect that DawahFilms overestimates his own intelligence and cunning, while simultaneously leaning heavily on emotions and thus gets himself into problems which he then tries to fix with attempted cunning.
Aaron1975melbourne 4 months ago
I still wonder, why you would bring such lines as "as mandated in the quuaarraaaan" and "the true interpretation of the shariaa" and "we will send you to the god you wish you knew", if you are merely under the impression that someone is about the start a genocide. If that was the case, why not simply call him out on it and bingo, you look like a reasonable human being instead of a religious fanatic idiot.
t3nGu666 4 months ago
@t3nGu666 Excellent observation.
CompleteRationality 4 months ago
@t3nGu666 Those lines are correct but you can't ignore that he had the qualifier "innocents" which he didn't think Tf00t had used. They both used qualifiers, they both ignored the other persons qualifiers, and they're both acting like douches.
IndulgingExistence 4 months ago
@IndulgingExistence I don't think that Tf00t ignored the "innocent" qualifier. It was in his response.
CompleteRationality 4 months ago
@CompleteRationality If i remember correctly it was only in the response because DF said it. Is there a part of one of TF's clips where he acknowledges it in some way? (by his own voice or text overlay)
IndulgingExistence 4 months ago
Actually in a comment that DawahFilms made to another user, he wrote (and I quote) "I actually gave the location to where the docs could be found to 4 of his subs who were concerned and even told one of them to have it deleted"
He then goes on "4 people loyal to Tf00t. Yeah, that sounds like I'm "out to get him" and that I'm mass doc dropping"
I've got the page as a snapshot.
So yes, he gained access to docs and has distributed them to at least 4 people.
Aaron1975melbourne 4 months ago
@CompleteRationality
What is the distinction between what he admits to doing and doc dropping? If I discover an anonymous gay blogger is a teacher, and first threaten him, and when he doesn't submit to my blackmail send his real name, and blogs to the principal, and all the teachers at his school am I not doc dropping? Or how about sending that info to the boss, and colleagues of an anonymous Iranian atheist blogger living in Iran?
(cont)
TheNakedAtheist 4 months ago
(cont)
I submit that Ali is no better than the people who would do that, and those who support him, or try to mitigate what he did are no better than those who would support those actions.
TheNakedAtheist 4 months ago
@TheNakedAtheist Can't argue with you there. Lol
CompleteRationality 4 months ago
@CompleteRationality
I'm sure the person dropping the docs of the teacher would argue there are "real life consequences" to a gay teacher teaching children. Likewise an atheist spreading his atheism in Iran could get people killed. Shouldn't those people be stopped?
TheNakedAtheist 4 months ago
I think they both been acting like asses, but I'm not sure I saw Dawahfilms original response as a threat, more as a warning, the same way if you look like you might strike me I might warn you if you do I will hit you back or have you arrested or something.
wolfwing1 4 months ago
I'm guessing DF was sitting on TF's docs for some time waiting for him to make his next islam-related video so he could use that as an opportunity to release his "final straw" video and do what he had been planning to do since the doc hunting incident last year.
detersgumig 4 months ago
youtube is a fascinating place (sarcasm)
Serpico261 4 months ago
I can see why both guys reacted the way they did. DF is a muslim and I see why he got defensive, because that's what religious people do, and even though I didn't find anything DF said as threatening I can see why TF would see them as threatening since muslims have sent threats his way in the past. In my opinion its a childish feud.
mmawilldesha 4 months ago
theyre both wrong imho.
thunderfoot never made any clarifications in his videos and spoke about ALL muslims instead of just the radical ones.
Dawah then interpreted Tfoots video of the sleeping giant to mean tfoot wanted to bring about a genocide against all muslims
Dawa then said he and other muslims would defend themselves if that were to happen, and tfoot either intentionally or not made it sound like a threat
then dawah dock dropped tfoot to silence his freedom of speach, which was wrong
zazenzach 4 months ago
I believe that Dawahfilms did indeed interprete tfoot's video wrong and i'm sure he felt and feels humiliated when tfoot shows that rather unfavorable clip of him and simply wanted to return the favor.
mmawilldesha 4 months ago
I don't think DF ever made a death threat against TF. Like TF's sleeping giant remark, DF was referring to collective action taken against those who hurt innocents, and this was based on an admitted misunderstanding of what TF meant. Also, DF has denounced Islamic terrorism and death threats against ZOMGitsCriss. So I believe TF has portrayed DF unfairly. But I also think DF has taken things too far by revealing TF's first name and trying to get him fired. Continued.
fortheloveofwisdom 4 months ago
@fortheloveofwisdom Tf understood what every sensible person understood from dawahfilms words..
Since when it is the victims fault for the aggressors behavior..
We are making excuses now for death treats?
"As mandated in the quran" what is mandated in the quran for people like TF that criticize islam?
"WE will sent u to the god u wish you knew" , who is we?what kind of a trip will Tf take towards Allah..
Sounds like a death treat to me..
His latest actions show his original intends.
AmetReloads 4 months ago
@AmetReloads Yes, he apparently does indeed take action. If his statement was not a death threat, then what is?
CompleteRationality 4 months ago
@fortheloveofwisdom I put the rest of my analysis in a PM, because I was having trouble posting the second part.
fortheloveofwisdom 4 months ago
If TF had called the FBI, I don't think would have been wrong if he felt threatened. From what I can tell, Dawa escalated the situation, and did a very bad thing by trying to get TF fired and dragging his family into it. Dawa is in the wrong. If Dawa had let the matter drop, then TF and Dawa could each go on with their lives. Instead Dawa had to do a bad thing, TF may take some sort of legal action against Dawa, or do sometime to ensure something like does does not happen again.
TenchiJeff 4 months ago
After it becomes the longest Youtube drama, Kevin and Phil will send their docs to Guinness World Records.
brunobanaful 4 months ago
DF was caught lying so many times. First he was lying about not being hunting for TF's docs, he was caught. Then he lied about the FBI issue, he claimed that TF himself contacted the FBI and that HappyCabbie and ZOMGitsCriss could testify to that. At least HC denied. He then changed this story, and claims that TF is responsible for his subs who allegedly contacted the FBI. Yet he failed to provide any evidence for that.It isn't such a stretch to claim that he is lying about the doc dropping too.
SeltsamerAttraktor 4 months ago 8
My analysis is thus.
TF made a statement basically saying 'be civil or face the consequences.'
DF then made a statement saying 'Harm an innocent, and face the consequences'
Which is clearly exactly what TF was complaining about in the first place. DF both agrees with TF's sentinment, and his idea of justice. Yet still opposes him.
Personally, I just think it was a misunderstanding on DF's part and TF instigated.
Now it's just about ego. It has gone too far.
Bloody religion... o_0
L00NGB00W 4 months ago
This drama is a fine line between pleasure and pain, and no one knows the safe word.
shiningpaths 4 months ago
1of2
Tfoot was indeed exaggerating things and handled the situation quite unfair. He shouldn't have done that. But does this (legally) qualify as slander?
- DF willingly chose to enter this public arena, published his image here, where it can be used legally under "fair use",
- and then issued this half-assed death threat, in a time, where people get murdered by fanatical Muslims over such things.
- And as if to reinforce his imagine of a fanatic he was hunting for TF's docs.
SeltsamerAttraktor 4 months ago
2of2
(So, DF has no reason to complain that he gets "harassed by TF's subs")
- Tfoot did not dropped his docs, so all he was attacking was DF's online persona, without (much?) influence on DF's real life
- even if Tfoot wasn't willing to resolve the matter in a friendly way, DF could have done something against it, without getting dirty: sue him
Now, it really takes a judge to clarify if TF's use of DF's imagine was still free speech and within the conditions of fair use
SeltsamerAttraktor 4 months ago
@SeltsamerAttraktor Thanks for your comprehensive assessment!
CompleteRationality 4 months ago
@CompleteRationality Are you going to do some kind of commentary video on this?
SeltsamerAttraktor 4 months ago
@SeltsamerAttraktor Yep, might go up today. :)
CompleteRationality 4 months ago
@CompleteRationality Have you heard that DF is taking legal action now?
SeltsamerAttraktor 4 months ago
My analysis is this: Nothing TF said cannot be supported (Except maybe if he really did call Dawah a non-national, but that is relatively minor.) There was no legal defamation and any ethical lawyer would tell Dawah as much.
Dawah did issue a death threat, he did at a stage hunt for TF's docs, and he did try to harm TF's career. What TF said is objectively true.
Does that mean TF was fair? Not entirely. TF should have acknowledged Dawah retracting his threat at the very least.
To be contd
Tokeloshe123 4 months ago
@Tokeloshe123 There are still issues which the retractions and clarifications Dawah brought in do not cover. I would have been better if TF had pointed those out instead of ignoring the retraction entirely.
Due to the fair comment nature of TF's statements (Fair comment ain't always fair) Dawah's attempts at other forms of recourse failed. Dawah thus got angry.
This was in part egged on by him being trolled, and adopted as a cause by trolls - one side provoking and the other encouraged.
contd...
Tokeloshe123 4 months ago
@Tokeloshe123 The FBI may or may not have been involved.
Without legitimate avenues to pursue because in real terms his grounds weren't all that legitimate, Dawah hunted TF's docs but didn't have the expertise to find them and gave up.
A user then contacted Dawah with the docs and what he did with them is exactly why you don't doc drop. He was in the wrong and lost a huge portion of his support base as a result. TF supporters still support TF, Dawah supporters say they are both jerks.
contd...
Tokeloshe123 4 months ago
@Tokeloshe123 Dawah is currently in damage control mode - but trying to play victim in this isn't really winning him any points. It is not like the taboo on this issue hadn't been explained to him.
He isn't entirely unsympathetic - he was portrayed in his worst possible light and became a posterboy for a lot of attacks on his community. Those attacks were not always just.
However he became that posterboy through his own actions, and it is thus that one cannot really stand by him.
Tokeloshe123 4 months ago
@Tokeloshe123 In conclusion: While Thunderf00t wasn't blameless, Dawah is in the position he is in because of Dawah. He transgressed a clear line in community standards, and was stupid enough to boast about it. His fight with Thunderf00t was one he picked, and he should have had the spine to argue it. His excuses come off as weak. Dawah got pwned.
His wisest course if he wants to continue on YouTube would be to release unrelated videos for a while and simply avoid TF as a topic in future.
Tokeloshe123 4 months ago
@Tokeloshe123-TF should have acknowledged Dawah retracting his threat at the very least.
The problem with that is that TF, when asked in blogtv said he didn't believe Ali misunderstood the sleeping giant video, but that he intentionally misrepresented it in an attempt to assassinate his character to his mostly Muslim audience, and it wasn't until the shit storm after TF responded (something he couldn't have anticipated) that he tried weasel out .
TheNakedAtheist 4 months ago
@TheNakedAtheist Is TF wrong for being cynical about Dawah's "retraction"? I don't think so. I myself even doubt that Dawah misinterpreted that video. If you follow the link in the description to my analysis, you might find something interesting.
CompleteRationality 4 months ago
Continued...
I wanted to add that point I'm making is that IF TF had acknowledged it he would have portrayed it as he saw it. Which was as a disingenuous attempt by a "self proclaimed moderate" to justify his death threats as a misunderstanding when they got more negative attention than he expected. And that would have only further fueled the flames, and added to the drama.
TheNakedAtheist 4 months ago
Free speech means not being mean to little Dawah. It is like the guy has his own special language.
happyjesus123 4 months ago 7
My analsis haha, Tf00t made some broad generalizations no doubt, and I think theres guys like Klingschor who have done a much better job criticing kevin and islam as a whole, but overall I still think hes trounced kevin on this topic. I can look back and see what dawah films that line about defending innocent people and yah I get that. That being said, tfoot didnt make any death threats, kevin did. At this point kevin and his whole kung fu jihad is a joke, and his doc dropping is just weak.
GMoneyStillTippin420 4 months ago
@GMoneyStillTippin420 I appreciate your assessment. :)
CompleteRationality 4 months ago
I heard from some people that a user named jack11994 or something like that has done the doc hunting and dropping, and it is clear that this user ain't a friend of thunderf00t (he's like 16 or 17 and is apart from that inactive on youtube). I also heard that this video had just 100 views. So the question is: who found it, to whom did he send it? (at least Coughlan, and maybe also DawahFilms?), was he the one who further spread this file? Or was it Dawah who spread the file?
SeltsamerAttraktor 4 months ago
@SeltsamerAttraktor Good questions, but everything is mainly speculation at the moment with that.
CompleteRationality 4 months ago
@CompleteRationality This is why I mark it as speculation. And ...speculation is the beginning of every investigation ;)
SeltsamerAttraktor 4 months ago
It doesn't matter what TF's employer thinks about his online persona or about what he said there, it only matters that DramaFilms tried to maliciously interfere with his real life, tried to get him fired, over some shit on the internet. That and that alone was the purpose of contacting his coworkers and his employer, to hurt him in real life. That is so sick, that it beggars description.
And now he tries to justify it and to quibble over details. Sick man, sick.
SeltsamerAttraktor 4 months ago
Well done...
urwormfood 4 months ago
1:40 thats precisely what tf00t did to venomfangx! Not to say two wrongs make a right, but to ignore ALL the times tf00t crossed lines and only focus on Dawah is dishonest to say the least.
They're Both douchebags who should leave youtube.
you also quote mined Dawah. This is just propaganda.
ReignbowSmite 4 months ago
@ReignbowSmite Dawah was not quotemined and NONE of this is propaganda. You obviously don't know the story of VenomFangX, he went around filing FALSE DMCA's.
CompleteRationality 4 months ago
@CompleteRationality so? That gave tf00t the right to contact his parents and threaten not only his fiancial support but his education. Yes it was quote mined. you completely skipped where he said tf00ts friend dropped his docs in May. Dawah didnt drop any docs and you made it appear as though he searched for them until HE found them and dropped them.
totally quotemind... mr "rational".
I maintain that you are dishonest and this video is propaganda.
ReignbowSmite 4 months ago
@ReignbowSmite just to add.. I dislike both of them, so I dont have a "side".
ReignbowSmite 4 months ago
@ReignbowSmite When the incident happened, I think VenomFangX was a minor, so it was inevitable that his parents were forced into it all. WHAT? What you just said makes absolutely no sense. I included the part where he said that his docs were dropped in May. Nothing else needs to be said. No, I didn't make it seem as if he searched for them and found them. It's people like you who don't pay attention to my extended effort of clarity in the video. (4:29) (6:30) You are a loser.
CompleteRationality 4 months ago
@CompleteRationality Im a loser? how much time did you spend on this Jerry Springer documentary about a couple of internet nobodies with conflicting superiority complexes? Tf00t and Ali are a waste of time on their own, never mind someones commentary.
I believe you're wrong, Shaun was attending university at the time. Tf00t did the same thing Ali did.
ReignbowSmite 4 months ago
@ReignbowSmite Funny, aren't YOU commenting on the videos about it. I never asserted that VenomFangX was a minor, I said that he may have been.
CompleteRationality 4 months ago
@CompleteRationality because regretfully I was subscribed to you when you uploaded this shit. Unfortunately this multi-part drama about LITERALLY NOTHING was taking up space in my subs page. "I never asserted that VenomFangX was a minor" I never said you said he was a minor. You said he may have been, so I clarified.
ReignbowSmite 4 months ago
@ReignbowSmite i wouldn't call someone working for easily of one of the top 15 universities in USA, and easily among the best of the world a nobody.
I could call you or Kevin, a nobody, primarily because it is true but irrelevant..
2)No Shaun brake the law.
Shaun committing at least 2 serious crimes.
Crimes that carry prison sentence.
Further more Shaun is the one that gave his docs to Tf and Dprjones through his actions.
..but lets not pretend you arent a crazy cunt with known biases.
AmetReloads 4 months ago
@ReignbowSmite-Shaun was attending university at the time. Tf00t did the same thing Ali did.
VFX DMCA'd one of DPRJones video's. The address he gave was his home address. In the course of his legal response he (DPRJones) either sent paperwork to, or called that address in an attempt to come to some sort of agreement short of having to take VFX to court, and somehow ended up in conversation with VFX's father. Trying to equate that with what DF did shows you are an idiot.
TheNakedAtheist 4 months ago 9
@TheNakedAtheist Agreed.
Wyglyph 4 months ago
@ReignbowSmite VFX has also scammed on charity money. VFX was about to get sued over the shit that he has done. So it was in fact benevolent of TF and dpr to contact his parents in that matter (as VFX was still quite young and living with his parents), before things could get out of control.
SeltsamerAttraktor 4 months ago
@SeltsamerAttraktor theres a legal route for that. Something Ali should have fucking done in the first place.
they're both assholes who deserve a Brett keane ip ban.
To be honest,they're not worth any comment I make because I don't care except to say Im sick of them both and am equally as sick of peoples personal commentary on the topic.
ReignbowSmite 4 months ago
@ReignbowSmite See my two part assessment of the situation here.
SeltsamerAttraktor 4 months ago
@SeltsamerAttraktor I did. I'm pretty sure vfx was not at home, he was living near his campus. His parents threatened to stop paying for him to attend school. Don't hold me to that because it's been a while and my memory reserves space for beneficial information.
ReignbowSmite 4 months ago
@ReignbowSmite Well, I can't remember this so well either.But let's agree that the situation was quite different, okay? VFX was in big trouble for the DMCAs and the scam.He would have been put in jail for this,if TF and dpr didn't tried to resolve the matter otherwise.All that TF now did was to disagree with DF, to repeatedly portray him as some kind of posterboy for islamic stupidity, and not being willing to resolve it.Legal action would have been more appropriate than trying to get him fired.
SeltsamerAttraktor 4 months ago
@SeltsamerAttraktor "All that TF now did was to disagree with DF" thats an out right lie. tf misrepresented and quote mined df, making him look like a terrorist. If df took tf to court for defamation, tf would lose. df tried MANY times to rectify the situation. Tf decided to continue his propaganda instead.
ReignbowSmite 4 months ago
@ReignbowSmite Now you quotemined me. Congratz
SeltsamerAttraktor 4 months ago
@ReignbowSmite how? your fucking comment is above mine? everyone can read it. I quoted that part specifically because Tf00t didnt have any disagreement, he refused to talk to df!
There wasn't anything they talked about to disagree on. Tfoot didn't make any arguments.
ReignbowSmite 4 months ago
@ReignbowSmite People don't need to talk about something in order to disagree about it. Obviously DF and TF disagree about Islam and the nature of the universe.
"If df took tf to court for defamation, tf would lose." People disagree about that, and even if he'd loose, he would not be put into jail for this (unlike VFX).
"df tried MANY times to rectify the situation. Tf decided to continue his propaganda instead." This is why I said he should have taken legal action instead of starting shit.
SeltsamerAttraktor 4 months ago
@SeltsamerAttraktor "Obviously DF and TF disagree about Islam and the nature of the universe." How do you know?! Do you think tf00t knows that dawah accepts evolution? Tf00t refused every discussion df asked for! They NEVER had a single dialog and that was tf00t's decision! Haven't you noticed tf00t doesn't have an argument? He has a crusade.
ReignbowSmite 4 months ago
@ReignbowSmite "How do you know?! " Are you some kind of troll, man? Df believes that a magical man in the sky created the universe and sent some messenger down to the earth who was once on a trip to Jerusalem on some magical flying horse, where he met Jesus and Moses, and subsequently laid down what to eat and how to shit and when to wage war against the infidels and whatnot. Tf obviously does not.
SeltsamerAttraktor 4 months ago
@SeltsamerAttraktor what specifically do they disagree on? Be sheer chance someone believes in a god, they should be painted in such a light? Tf00t has never made ONE SINGLE ARGUMENT to Dawah. It was purely a fucking smear campaign and character assassination there's no question there.
ReignbowSmite 4 months ago
@ReignbowSmite "what specifically do they disagree on? Be sheer chance someone believes in a god, they should be painted in such a light?"
Well a death threat against Tf, is something they could possibly disagree on..
Stalking and harassing Tf in his place of work is another..
Weren't you one that brought down all of your videos cause someone said "nusty" words to you..so after shitting your pants, you deleted your videos?
Well aren't we the little miss hypocrite 2011...
AmetReloads 4 months ago
@ReignbowSmite
1of2
Do you have a hard time reading? Put your glasses on! Df not only beliefs in a god but also that the QuuRRRrran is his word and Momo his messenger. Otherwise he wouldn't be a Muslim. He buys what this book claims, including said story below. Tf is an atheist. They disagree. Period. And it's questionable that how Tf has portrayed Df would qualify as defamation/slander,
since he only attacked his online persona and the light and the light in which
SeltsamerAttraktor 4 months ago
@SeltsamerAttraktor Is that a reason to dismiss, dehumanize, and try to smear someones reputation??? with out even talking to the person? JUST because they identify as muslim?
" And it's questionable that how Tf has portrayed Df would qualify as defamation/slander" LOL
ReignbowSmite 4 months ago
@ReignbowSmite "Is that a reason to dismiss, dehumanize, and try to smear someones reputation???" I haven't said nor implied that. "with out even talking to the person?" I already stated that Tf handled the situation quite bad.
"JUST because they identify as muslim?" The same shit as believing some zombie walked the earth to relieve mankind from bad karma that the first human brought upon it just by eating a fricking apple in a magical garden.
"LOL" quote the whole sentence.
Discussion is over.
SeltsamerAttraktor 4 months ago
@SeltsamerAttraktor 500 Character limit asshole. continue the "LOL" into 2 of 2.
ReignbowSmite 4 months ago
@ReignbowSmite
2of2
Df has put himself into isn't that favourable either (death threat, doc hunting, lying about the FBI)! It takes a judge to decide that, that's why I support legal action! But he has decided to throw around with shit like a little child instead.
And why do you refuse to read what other people tell you, and why do you start throwing around with insults?
SeltsamerAttraktor 4 months ago
@SeltsamerAttraktor it wasnt a death threat, he made a clarification video, appologized for misenterpreting tf00ts video as calling for a genocide. Ali asked tf00t to clarify. Tf00t ignored it!
doc hunting - are you the thought crime police?
lying about the fbi - we dont know either way, so argument dismissed. I agree Ali should have taken legal action instead, but tf00t should have sought the legal route with vfx too.
ReignbowSmite 4 months ago
@ReignbowSmite Saying such words in a world where people dozens of people got murdered by fanatical Muslims or have gone into hiding, was knowingly playing on very thin ice.
"doc hunting" He did that in order to harm Tf in RL. Proof for that exists.
"lying about the fbi" He claimed that Tf contacted the FBI over him and that HC and ZOMGitsChriss could testify.
"but tf00t should have sought the legal route with vfx too." VFX would have gone into jail. Dpr is a lawyer.
SeltsamerAttraktor 4 months ago
@ReignbowSmite doc hunting is actually a crime.'
doc hunting, doc dropping and doc sharing.
personal information are protected by laws silly woman.
Why do you think is in the TERMS OF SERVICE of Yt you idiot?
TF could have push for legal actions against VFX, which would have ended with a criminal record for VFX.
You understand what Federal crimes are?
So TF is accused now for being compassionate?
Damn!!
lol.
AmetReloads 4 months ago
@SeltsamerAttraktor And I don't know if you fucking noticed, but none of tfoots videos about Islam have so far not brought up anything in the quran. Merely bigoted attacks based on middle eastern cultural stereotypes, Idiot.
ReignbowSmite 4 months ago
@ReignbowSmite VFX was living at home with his parents during the first Thunderf00t incident, but lived at the campus during the latter episode, in which he falsely accused dprJones of breaking the DMCA.
OverusedArgument 4 months ago
@OverusedArgument regardless, tfoot still used vfx docs as a weapon to disturb his life off of youtube, JUST LIKE ALI. You cant defend one with out defending the other.
In BOTH cases things should have been either dismissed or dealt with through the legal system. Not through threats that could potentially be interpreted as blackmail.
fyi tfoot made the first "threat" he was fishing for a muzzie to be his next "poster boy" to try and prove all Muslims are terrorists.
ReignbowSmite 4 months ago
@ReignbowSmite
"Dealt through the Legal system".
The same legal system that consider a false DMCA as perjury,and can lead to prison sentence?Or the same
system that considers embezzlement of charity money a fraud, that similarly can carry a prison penalty?
Or the same legal system that could issue serious compensations for defamation?
Be serious crazy woman.
TF and Dprjones handled the issue as gently and as humanely as they could possibly do,
...
AmetReloads 4 months ago
@AmetReloads I don't read anything you type amet. You're a cock gobbling stoolie.
ReignbowSmite 4 months ago
@ReignbowSmite Thats ok others do..
As most other Ytbers , me too arent interested in picking a discussion with a crazy fundamentalist..
..but it has its funs..
AmetReloads 4 months ago
@AmetReloads ...letting his parents straight him out.
But of course in your paranoid bigoted full hatred and empathy mind, facts are irrelevant..
Thunderfoot wasnt even aware of Dodofilms before he issued his death treat against Tf..
..Death treat that he stood by,for months refusing to take it back, for what ever crazy reasoning..
Stalking , harassment, death treats, blackmailing thunderfoot out of his free speech, obsessive compulsive behavior .. all of them were DF's doing, not the victim's.
AmetReloads 4 months ago
@AmetReloads lol marked as spam before anything entered my inbox. Apparently my sentiment is shared by many.
ReignbowSmite 4 months ago
@ReignbowSmite I'm not defending anyone here, I think they're both wrong (Dawah through his ethically questionable behaviour and TF for not acknowledging the clear misunderstandings that caused all of these issues, and thus committing an act of intellectual dishonesty. NB that everyone makes mistakes, and I would continue to support TF if he were to admit that he has been wrong about something here. Dawah, on the other hand, has lost my support by mixing YT drama with the real life.)
OverusedArgument 4 months ago
@OverusedArgument I completely agree with that.
ReignbowSmite 4 months ago
@OverusedArgument-the clear misunderstandings that caused all of these issues
What clear misunderstanding is that? Ali made a video that in TF's opinion was an intentional characterization of this sleeping giant in order to assassinate his character to, what at that time, was his mostly theist audience, and included a thinly veiled death threat, and TF fought back.
TheNakedAtheist 4 months ago
@TheNakedAtheist DF already corrected this misunderstanding. What actually happened is that he had misunderstood the "Sleeping giant" -rhetoric TF encouraging genocide against all muslims. DF already has acknowledged that he misinterpreted TF's intention about the "sleeping giant", so what I hope from TF is that he'd acknowledge that there was no intention of making a death threat, and thus the "death threat" made by DF is meaningless in all possible ways.
OverusedArgument 4 months ago
@OverusedArgument Actually, DF only "claims" that he misunderstood TF. A lot of people don't buy it. For one, I don't even see how he could have misinterpreted what TF said at all. If you are interested in my full opinion on this, just click the link in the description to head over to my blog.
CompleteRationality 4 months ago
@CompleteRationality I have a problem with the idea that he "only claims" it, as his word is all the evidence there are or can be about this issue, and thus I'd say that the only intellectually honest decision from us would be to trust him on that, no matter how impossible it seems to misunderstand TF on what he said. Emphasis on the word "seems" as I can easily imagine misunderstanding TF's statement. We must remember how vastly people's thought processes can be. Cont.
OverusedArgument 4 months ago
@OverusedArgument Following is an analysis of a possible scenario about how DF felt and thought about the "sleeping giant" statement:
-Overall first impression of the statement was a hostile one, noting how TF sounded angry.
-Due to the perceived hostility, DF's mind became defensive, and thus put his focus on the perceived hostile parts of TF's statement instead of the parts that caused the statement to be non-hostile overall.
-DF thus answered without complete understanding of the situation.
OverusedArgument 4 months ago
@OverusedArgument-Overall first impression of the statement was a hostile one, noting how TF sounded angry.
My first impression was of someone who is very concerned about the possible reaction if extremists became a serious threat.
TheNakedAtheist 4 months ago
@TheNakedAtheist The only first impression that is currently relevant here is that of DawaFilms' which demonstrably was a hostile one and this is supported by how Dawah's "death threat" against TF was conditionally worded.
OverusedArgument 4 months ago
@OverusedArgument
My point is relevant to your assertion that "the only intellectually honest decision from us would be to trust him on that". Considering things like whether it was reasonable for him to come to the conclusion he did is only way we can form an opinion since as I said above that the only intellectually honest decision otherwise would be to withhold judgment.
TheNakedAtheist 4 months ago
@TheNakedAtheist I did not argue that his conclusion was reasonable, I'd even say that he was in the wrong. What I did argue, however, was that due to momentary incapability to see the whole picture, he only knew of premises which would've justified his anger. Note that I acknowledge that because he didn't notice all of the necessary information, DF was in the wrong.
Cont.
OverusedArgument 4 months ago
@OverusedArgument As I have a tendency to communicate unclearly, I shall reword what I meant:
If a judgement was necessary, we'd have to use the evidence available to reach a conclusion, and due to the nature of the question, the only possible evidence is DF's word about how he misinterpreted TF's statement. Thus questioning DF's claim about misunderstanding is absolutely a dead-end, which would rid our whole discussion of any meaning, reducing it to kids' screaming.
OverusedArgument 4 months ago
@OverusedArgument-I'd say that the only intellectually honest decision from us would be to trust him on that
Um no, the only intellectually honest decision would be to withhold judgment. Now we could form an opinion if we have a good reason to consider the source trustworthy, but I see no reason TF should consider DF to be trustworthy, particular given the fact that an "apology" in those circumstances was self serving.
TheNakedAtheist 4 months ago
@TheNakedAtheist As I stated before, DF's claim that he misunderstood is the -only- possible source to exist, credible or otherwise.
OverusedArgument 4 months ago
@OverusedArgument-as his word is all the evidence there are or can be about this issue, and thus I'd say that the only intellectually honest decision from us would be to trust him on that
Having reread that statement after responding to your response to my other comment I can only face-palm. Please send me $10k, and I will send you $20k in a week. Oh BTW did you know there is a teapot circling the sun in the asteroid belt. Sorry couldn't help myself. lol
TheNakedAtheist 4 months ago
@TheNakedAtheist No worries, I could barely read what you said anyway due to my eyes bleeding. lol
Joking aside, for the sake of the argument I go with your analogies (except for Russel reference, see BionicDance's videos on the difference between confidence and faith to see a flawed but working explanation of why I dismiss this part):
Comparing the scam you'd use to rid me off of $10k, if you were to soon "undo" the crime by giving me the money back, I'd have no problem. Analogy for apology.
OverusedArgument 4 months ago
@OverusedArgument-see BionicDance's videos on the difference between confidence and faith to see a flawed but working explanation of why I dismiss this part):
BD is a idiot, and the last person you should be listening to for sound philosophy.
TheNakedAtheist 4 months ago
@TheNakedAtheist I absolutely agree that she isn't the brightest bulb around, but I think she does make has a good point about how belief in the idea that y will perform the act of z is different from belief in existence of x.
We see y doing z all the time, (although sometimes ¬z instead) but we've never noticed an x.
OverusedArgument 4 months ago
@OverusedArgument Also, even a broken clock is right twice a day xD
OverusedArgument 4 months ago
@OverusedArgument
As CR pointed out TF has stated when asked that he doesn't believe DF "misinterpreted" his sleeping giant video. He believes he intentionally mischaracterized it in order to make him look like some sort of genocidal maniac. He also believes Ali's apology was disingenuous, and only made because he realized he was getting the worst of the exchange by virtue of TF having 10x as many subs as he did.
TheNakedAtheist 4 months ago
@TheNakedAtheist What TF believes about the situation makes little difference to whether or not DF did misinterpret TF's "giant" rhetoric in the first place. If anything, I'd shrug and state, with a sad tone: "Misunderstandings pile upon misunderstandings, and soon shit -will- hit the fan..."
OverusedArgument 4 months ago
@OverusedArgument-What TF believes about the situation makes little difference to whether or not DF did misinterpret TF's "giant" rhetoric in the first
It's relevant to whether there were any misunderstandings as you asserted. There were only misunderstandings if you accept Dawah's claim that he misunderstood the sleep giant metaphor.
TheNakedAtheist 4 months ago
@TheNakedAtheist Due to the nature of the claim of whether or not Dawah actually misunderstood the sleeping giant statement, we can come to 2 different "conclusions" and those 2 only: Either we
a)Don't make any judgement regarding it or
b)Trust Dawah's word about what he thought.
(Please inform me if this is a false dilemma, I'd love to know how other answers are possible)
I suppose that you'd pick a, in which case we arrive at a dead-end, and I can't see how we could talk about this at all.
OverusedArgument 4 months ago
@OverusedArgument To repeat: What TF believes about how DF's mind works is irrelevant as is what I believe about it or what you believe about it. Opinions cannot change reality, unless we're talking about what I think I think, in which case it'd all be circular xP
OverusedArgument 4 months ago
@OverusedArgument-To repeat: What TF believes about how DF's mind works is irrelevant
He's not judging how his mind works. He's judging a claim from DF about how his mind works. If he has no good reason to believe or disbelieve that claim he would a), and act as though it was never made. If he believes it's more likely a lie (because it's self serving) he might choose c). You're seem very confused here overused.
TheNakedAtheist 4 months ago
@OverusedArgument
c) Not trust what he's claims to have thought.
Where not judging what he "thought" here, we're judging his CLAIM about what he thought, and we judge that just as we would any other claim.
TheNakedAtheist 4 months ago
@TheNakedAtheist What else do you base the judgement about DF's claim's truth-value other than a motive claim to have misunderstood?
My point is that claiming that he had misunderstood the sleeping giant metaphor is self-serving regardless of whether it's true or not. Thus it doesn't indicate nor does it imply that he lied.
OverusedArgument 4 months ago
@OverusedArgument-What else do you base the judgement about DF's claim's truth-value other than a motive claim to have misunderstood?
We've already covered that. You can base it on the likelihood that the sleeping giant metaphor could be misunderstood, any information you might have regarding the person making the claims character, how sincere you judge the person to be when they make the claim. If you don't take those things into account you can only say "I don't know".
TheNakedAtheist 4 months ago
@TheNakedAtheist Suffering from Asperger's, I can assure you that it can be -very- easy for -anyone- (with autistic spectrum or not) to misunderstand almost -anything- and from personal experience, TF's metaphor was especially easy to misunderstand. We have to take into account the strong emotions both clearly had at the time, and knowing how emotions shroud sight from some facts, it's even easier to misunderstand.
Wandering into estimating sincerity/character is pure social speculation.
OverusedArgument 4 months ago
@OverusedArgument Which is what I already covered earlier. Minus the last sentence.
We should really make sure the other one accepts a point before continuing to presuming it in the later arguments... o.o"
OverusedArgument 4 months ago
@OverusedArgument-Suffering from Asperger's, I can assure you
If we had reason to believe DF's was suffering from something that might affect his comprehension skills it would be evidence in his favor. The rest of your comment seems to have veered completely from your former assertion that we should take him at his word. I agree it's a judgement call. Which brings us back to my point when I called you on your assertion that thus was all based on a misunderstanding.
(cont)
TheNakedAtheist 4 months ago
(cont)
If you had simply said "in my opinion all these issues were cause by a misunderstanding" I likely never would have replied to your comment, but you were claiming knowledge you couldn't possible have.
TheNakedAtheist 4 months ago
@TheNakedAtheist My point, which I did convey poorly, was that it is easy for -anyone- to misunderstand these statements, DF not having limited social skills doesn't diminish this fact.
I don't claim knowledge of whether he did or didn't misinterpret the "giant" metaphor, but I claim that there is no evidence to suggest that he was (or wasn't) lying. All you have offered to help make the judgement call is nothing more than your subjective interpretation of DF's character, and thus useless. cont
OverusedArgument 4 months ago
@OverusedArgument I do, however, acknowledge that my initial comment seemed as if I believed to have absolute knowledge about the origin of the drama. In all honesty this wasn't my intention, I knew back then as well as I do now that they're merely how I see the situation. I see of no reason of distrusting Dawah on something that has so little to do with me, and even if I were to believe that he lied, I'd argue that it's fine, as Dawah has taken back his death threat. cont.
OverusedArgument 4 months ago
@OverusedArgument The following might sound silly, in which case simply inform me of the flaws of my reasoning without face-palming, thus saving your hand and my emotions from unnecessary harm xP
How does questioning Dawah's honesty about his own thoughts differ from a theist claiming that we deny God only because we want to sin?
OverusedArgument 4 months ago
@OverusedArgument
You're correct if you're saying there is no empirical evidence to suggest whether he's lying or not lying, but there is circumstantial evidence that can be be used to make that judgement, and it wasn't my intent to offer you anything to make any judgement. My intent was simply to point out taking his word for it is not the "intellectually honest" thing to do, and that there is no evidence for the claim that there were misunderstandings involved.
(cont)
TheNakedAtheist 4 months ago
(cont)
In fact, but of course it's highly unlikely, TF could be a genocidal maniac, DF absolutely correct when he characterized it that way, and DF could have meant what he said as a death threat, and in that scenario there are no misunderstandings involved either. :p
TheNakedAtheist 4 months ago
@TheNakedAtheist The circumstantial evidence provided still remains subject to heavy interpretation, and thus carries very little weight. And like I already stated, if we question DF's claims about his thoughts, we must let theists question our non-/lack of belief. If you are alright with that, then fine, as long as you're consistent, you're fantastic :D
In short, if you question whether or not DF misunderstood the metaphor, I'll accuse you of being a closeted muslim yourself xD
OverusedArgument 4 months ago