Demonstration of Precision Dual Ball Bearing vs. Journal Bearing

[1danvivaldi]

@ supra372r yes dbb is better tech but not 1000$ better tech. Second I can afford dbb turbos but choose not too because the knowledge and personal experience in the racing world, close friends experiences with dbb turbos ie cost of rebuild and no more durability then a journal makes dbb turbos not worth the extra $1000. Oh yeah I can afford several dbb turbos and could buy your mom, sister as well. But like dbb turbos hors are not worth the money cocksucker.

[Gripmagic]

I'm sure its been said in the comments already but just incase, that turbo is oil cooled not air cooled . That's nothing new and is a downgrade from an oil/coolant cooled turbo design. That's how you build a cheap turbo, nice turbos have oil and coolant. also as someone else stated dry spinning of the shaft has no relevance whatsoever to the performance of these turbos in actuall operation.

[1danvivaldi]

SupraExdriver that is what I said if u can read. I said other then quicker spool between shifts there is minimal difference. Second dbb are not more reliable and are a pain in the ass. Need to determine oil restrictor unlike journal bearing and cost of rebuild/ replacement of cartridge are all factors for why dbb not worth money. Of course you noticed a difference between a 68mm and 72 mm

[SupraExDriver]

@1danvivaldi I understood what you meant. My point was that the difference I saw going from a journal bearing to DBB WAS substantial and noticeable, therefore worth the money to me. I always tell people that DBB is awesome but if it's not in the budget, you'll have no problem with the journal bearing.

[supra372r]

@1danvivaldi

Thats great! yes the DBB is more expensive! Yes the journal is good too, but the DBB is better technology!

Look 1danvivaldi if you cant afford the turbo..who the fuck care? Thats why you have the option to buy journal bearing.

For everyone else.. The DBB is worth the money!

IT COST TO PLAY...

I LOVE MY GT42 CEA !!!

[supra372r]

@1danvivaldi

Didnt mean to curse @ you 1danvivaldi

[1danvivaldi]

Other then a little bit faster spool between shifting the price difference and cost to rebuild a dbb turbo does not seem worth it to me.

[SupraExDriver]

@1danvivaldi You won't see a faster boost threshold (initial spool-up) with DBB. The difference is in boost recovery (from on/off throttle conditions or shifting for example) and the added durability. I went from a smaller journal bearing 68mm to my current Precision 72mm CEA DBB turbo and can definitely say it was worth the money!

[1danvivaldi]

Sorry supraex I meant to say that ball bearing can be rebuilt but the centre cartridge must be replaced this applies to most ball bearing turbos. The cost usually is $800 plus to rebuild as opposed to $300 to rebuild a journal bearing.

[lamazver]

just try to rebuild it :) still staying to good old Holset HX35 :)

[1danvivaldi]

Don't forget ball bearing turbos can't be rebuilt the whole cartridge must be replaced very expensive not worth the cash for minimal difference

[SupraExDriver]

@1danvivaldi DBB turbos can be rebuilt. You're referring to the Garrett small frame turbos that require the entire CHRA to be replaced should it need rebuilt. These turbos are rebuildable.

[z33twinturbo]

Well people don't realize this but the friction between the metal and oil is actually really quite low... Any liquid really will have a low coefficient of friction. The real big difference on "spool" between a modern journal bearing turbo and bb is momentum lost between shifts: a bb turbo will jump back onto boost quicker. Actual spool times otherwise really aren't worth the 1k+ difference, at least in my opinion. that's why I have a 7175 billet non bb :)

[Tupples1]

bb turbo are a fucking wast of money there is not really drastic of a difference.

[AhdFOUR]

You cant judge only by that you must add a lubrication to the journal bearings then you do this experiment again and judge.

[markhonda1]

I want this turbo!

[Brendon00000]

are all the new precision turbo's air cooled? simplicity is best, after the pte 6262 BB

[irishboxer92]

Coming off the comment below, my 300zx has oil cooled turbos, would u b able to swap in water cooled ball bearing turbos after that?

[mytbouf21]

What about the journal bearing turbos?......Have you seen the failure rates on PTE journal bearing turbos. Bitch please! And superchargers also aren't spooling up to 35-40 psi daily. Water cooled ball bearing turbos will always be king.

[danetp]

this is not a fair comparison. A journal bearing needs OIL PRESSURE to work. Its just like your mains in your engine. Not saying the journals are better than BB but its not that drastic of a difference

[SupraExDriver]

@danetp What you say is true, but if I posted a video of them both after having oil go through them, the DBB completely embarrasses the journal. Initial spool-up is not what DBB accomplishes despite what the masses think.

[jacklav1]

@SupraExDriver

Yeah but the journal bearing is a hydrodynamic bearing, it has a minimum speed at which it will generate lift to keep the two bearing surfaces separated by an oil film. In this case the design speed is several thousand rpm so it's not surprising that the journal won't work if you turn it over by hand.

[realwheeldrive]

I agree with KirkTR. Only way to truly test the DBB and journal bearing is through power band graph on the dyno sheet given that both turbos were tested on the same car with same boost level and supporting mods and if your lucky temperature and humidity, if one wants to go that far. Other then that air cooling has been around for decades and seems to get the job done but on a turbo that spins in access of 130,000+ rpms, its very questionable.

[criticaboutvids]

So what are the power gain differences between the two?

[MegaMarshal]

@varqtube ; Comp has released the "Oil-Less" Turbo! Now that's crazy. Anyone have experiance with one?

[dnksnjrdns]

Nice vid... U said you sell these bb turbos? I'm looking for sum gt28s for my ttZ.. got a link to your store?

Thanks in advance

[Nippon1971]

AIR COOLED ????? Maaaaan.....This turbo will get fried up !!!!!!

[varqtube]

@Nippon1971 LOL wow...It is oil AND air cooled. He's saying that the new ball bearing turbos do not need water cooling anymore, as opposed to the older style Precision ball bearing units. The air cooling is replacing the water inlets and outlets. Pretty cool, if you ask me. No running coolant lines anymore.

[Nippon1971]

@varqtube Yeah...but.....is it reliable ??

[varqtube]

@Nippon1971 Yup. Very reliable, my dude. I've been running a 6768 DBB T4 .96 a/r for a little under a year now, with zero issues. Making 835 whp at the moment. Awesome turbo!

[KirkTR]

This test proves nothing. A journal bearing turbo requires oil to properly function as the oil "floats" the shaft. All you are doing is rubbing the turbine shaft against the bearings. The reason why it seems like the BB spins more is because it does not rely on the oil as much as a journal bearing turbo does in order to function.

[TheAristotleQ]

Air cooled? Terrible, terrible idea for the majority of cars. You'll be coking up that oil really quick.

[SupraExDriver]

@TheAristotleQ What's wrong with all of the journal bearing turbos being oil cooled? What about the self-contained lubricant superchargers?

[trugemini6382]

@SupraExDriver the self contained oiled SC are not nearly getting as hot.. since the turbine housing gets up to 1000 F and is in direct contact with super hot ex gas. . and is bolted directly to the center cartridge of the turbo . iron transfers heat with iron very well.where as SC are located far away from exhaust and only heat up due to friction , under hood heat and compressed charge air. not nearly 1000-1200 F that a turbo sees.

[1ugly240]

I want one!

[colocho19]

Ive got to say... but I wouldn't trust a "Air Cooled" turbo, its too hot in the engine bay with the turbo manifold glowing red and downpipe so close. Its too hott!!!

[tonlocsvids]

I'm going to be getting the journal bearing turbo soon on a audi a4 1.8t w AEB head W/M injection3" lightwieght flywheel cat back and chipped and a few more.I'll let you no how it goes. Check back in cpl weeks!!!

[Brendon00000]

nope I was wrong got them mixed up journal is your basic turbo its the ball bearing ones that spool up crazy, but $1100 cheapest? ive seen the precision 6262 for $800 in alot of places

[SupraExDriver]

@Brendon00000 I sell Precision 6262's for $899 and $1439 for Waterless DBB.

[1974dusterkev]

@SupraExDriver Bought my DBB 6262 for 1300bucks that was the cheapest I could find a new one. Besides having to send it back after 100miles because of shaft play awesome turbo they sent me a new one in about a week, still tuning the old slant six duster with the blowthrough setup.

[Brendon00000]

ball bearing seems to be better and frankly its cheaper

[Munky332]

@Brendon00000 cheaper? i can get excellent quality journal turbo's (depending on sizing) anywhere from 450-600$ each. the cheapest i've found for a decent ball bearing is 1100$. is it really worth double the price for a slightly better spool? not to me it isnt. then again, i'm not running mine on a 4-banger either...

[rotor13]

@Munky332 exactly..... turbo technology is so far advanced from the 80/90s turbo tech, that even current journal bearing turbos spool much better than older ball bearing turbos of yesteryear....

[MegaMarshal]

These are still oil cooled right???

[SupraExDriver]

@MegaMarshal Yes they are oil cooled only

[boostedgsx]

The power will be the same journal vs DBB.... for me the 200-300rpm spool isn't worth the extra $800.00... not to mention the only real difference is the transient response on the street. Honestly this turbo is meant for drag racing applications so spool shouldn't really matter that much... ive got the 6765 billet on my evo and its a greattttt turbo

[SupraExDriver]

@boostedgsx I didn't say power potential was different. This is most definitely not a drag turbo either. Maybe on a very small displacement motor, but it's still a small-frame turbo. You are correct in that the best benefits of DBB will be the transient response as opposed to increased boost threshold.

[003590510]

Are your 6765 Billet DBB turbos available in a t3 dualport exhaust housing? Prefferably with the .78 A/R. Do you also make a Triple ball bearing setup?

[BruzedHQ]

@003590510 dude what are you thinking a triple BB 6765 ona t3 housing with only 7.8A/R. cani ask what engine are you using? lol

[SupraExDriver]

@003590510 Precision Turbo uses proprietary Waterless Dual Ball Bearing technology. The divided housings I have for the 6765 is available in .84, 1.00, 1.15, and 1.32 A/R sizes. The triple ball bearing you are referring to is offered by Comp Turbo.

[ae86det]

hey i was asking in a different video of a supra build you have. how different is spool on the 6765 billet dbb vs 6262 billet dbb. on lets say an rb25 or if you have tested setup on the supra that data will work too and please give me your shop number so i can get in touch with you all (you already gave me some prices and am very interested have not found prices that good anywhere on the net)

[gr1f1th]

you do realize that spinning it with your finger is a horrible way to demonstrate this right? a journal bearing needs to be at a much higher speed to operate correctly. I suggest a timed spin up/down cycle to operational peaks and I bet you the journal bearing would win.

[benro2]

Is it possible to switch the car straight off without a cooldown period? How do these compare with watercooled bearings in this situation? Is a cooldown period now necessary since there's no watercooling?

[DVcustomZ]

@benro2 I cannot speak for this turbo, but normally if you run an external oil cooler unless extreme driving was done cool down is not required

[SupraExDriver]

@benro2 This is far larger than a GT3076. A similar Precision turbo would be the 5857 Billet.

[DVcustomZ]

How well does the aircooled set up do in real world abusive driving

[SupraExDriver]

@DVcustomZ DBB is far more durable than the standard journal bearings.

[DVcustomZ]

@SupraExDriver How does this turbo compare to a GT3076 in performance and overrall size?