If you don't mind me sayin, but it seems a bit messy there ;) But I have to say that is a rather interesting organ. I do hope you can get a better recording of those sounds.
@gwpritchrd One can't be inventive without having the stuff laying around to put together . . . ! On the video "Latrobian Whirl" the 128ft is used for some notes . . .
You should use a rotary woofer . HAS Flat frequency response all the way down to DC. The rotary woofer can do a 120 db or greater spl from 1-20hz. And you only need 200 watts. Plus it uses very low pressure which results in very low bass that is real.
Could I ask you why you chose 18" units instead of multiple 15" units? It's just that back in the '70's I gave up using 18" units on continuous bass as the cones tend to distend on very low frequencies. Even Altec Lansing units were prone to this "cone flexing". The enclosures were very well tuned but the !8" units were very unforgiving. Do they use better materials for cones now? Lovely job by the way!
@kaferere Thanks so much for your kind comment which is much appreciated. Good point about 18 inch units - I had them to hand and big surface area shifting lots of air was the idea . . . and perhaps you're right. For very low frequencies, car subwoofers simply don't flex at all and perhaps they'd be my choice possibly in doing it again . . .
@latribe That's a good point, I forgot about the car subwoofer market. The last organ I worked on was back in the seventies, an old Miller in Anfield church, I've had my feet out of the water for quite a while. I hope you can post a video when you're all done, it really looks great. Thanks again.
Nice! Love the solution. Been designing various subwoofer solutions to reproduce a 64' pipe as reference and lower if possible for a hifi purpose.
If you were to do this again or look for more output and don't mind a 80hz lowpass; look no further than the exodus maelstrom x21. Response to 6hz in a sealed enclosure and a tuned port does even more with tradeoffs. I'd doubt 18s are going to get 128ft, 2x21" cant! Here's hoping though with the right room...
@N4CR5 Unless made very large a sealed box will raise the free air resonance of any driver. If a true sub-10Hz response is required, at full power, then you should investigate infinite baffle subwoofers. Four 15" or four 18" IB drivers using a room, a loft, or a cellar for an enclosure are ideal. A ported enclosure produces more distortion than it does clean sound and should be strictly avoided for organ use. The 21" driver may be too large to avoid cone breakup. Better to use more 18"s or 15"s.
You got it bang on, most 21"s are pro drivers with low xmax, I want sound quality over all, if I need more air I'll build a second; my design settled with IB 1x 21" @ 16hz fs 21.5 BL 89.6db/w and .39qts 32mm one way xmax (40mm xmech), targeting 113db@20hz and 102db@10hz without room rise and inaudible group delay, concrete mold box at 10-11ft/3, looking around 1200w per voice coil from each nxv-800 monoblock, damping for africa and overspec transformers to keep a handle on it :D
@N4CR5 Enjoy! :-) I'd still rather get my displacement from a load of 15s or 18s in a huge IB rear volume, on more gentle power, using mutual coupling. My undersized IB enclosure is only 600cu ft using 8 x 15"s. It ought to be double that volume or more. Despite this, any time I see serious cone movement the house will probably fall down. On organ an IB leaves little to be desired for SQ and realistic power. Our host, latribe, should be adding more 18" drivers in an IB manifold. ;-)
Wheee! That's a wicked setup you have there, true tower of power! Awesome swept volume, brilliant. You must get some awesome reactions to that rig. I'm not settled into a house yet, renting around so unfortunately truely epic subwoofers such as yours are not as much of an option.. one day though. 80-100kg 21" sub will be bad enough to move lol. Happy clean deep bass to you my fellow basshead ^__~
And I can't wait to see what latribe gets up to next hehehe :D
It's associated with the wavelength - so a 16ft organ stop is a 16ft pipe on bottom C giving 32 Hz, 32ft is 16Hz, 64ft is 8Hz, 128ft is 4Hz. A 512ft pipe would be around 1 Hz!
@latribe thankyou for explanation sir! yeah i get it now, jolly good, is the set out for the organ a step configuration? as in bottom c at the bottom and going up to the top set of keys or are the five sets of keys for different things?
@Vladflame The keyboards, known as manuals, are all exactly the same but have access to different sets of stops so that one can jump from one to another to achieve different tone colours within the piece. See the two videos "Hugh Potton Reubke" and you'll see how it's played using the different manuals.
I believe it refers to how long the pipe would have to be to produce the tones. The 128' tone would require a 128' pipe, but they are using speakers in this case instead.
On my video, Virgil Fox playing Bach's Come Sweet Death, what gives the Wanamaker organ the very deep bass just over half way through the second verse?
man this reminds me of the pipe organ in St.James being played during the funeral. its been a while since i have been to the church but it was a surprising reminder of how good it sounded
I might not be able to sing in an 128ft tone but maybe my Pajero with a hole in the exhaust can :)
I remember some time back in the 80's maybe a recital billed as the "battle of the organs" at Coventry Cathedral which was an electronic organ vs, the Harrison Organ, personally I think the Harrison won, it certainly rattled my teeth.
Yes - Harrisons are Rolls Royces of organs and a commercial electronic instrument imported for a "battle of organs" circus won't be nearly as good. I don't promote electronic organs - I'm just promoting the music . . . and if you search "Hugh Potton Reubke" and "Hugh Potton Cochereau" you'll hear just how good it can get.
Well . . . yes! My wife thought that I had started up the Unimog outside when I first invented it. It comes in two versions - a "flue" and a "reed" - the reed sounding more diesel-like and the flue modulating everything above - and importantly you can feel it in real life in a way that you cannot experience through YouTube.
I did it not quite purely as a joke, but to see what it would be like. In reality on full organ it does usefully underpin the music above it. Can be applied to pipework.
Did you raid some Rastafarians tea party for those sub woofers - not bad...but 128 ft is really subsonic...it's more to feel the music so will never reproduce on U-Tube. Nice work!
Yes! It's great fun. You can feel it in real life but on YouTube it just modulates automatic volume control systems and makes the organ sound awful - but that's the point - organs are there to be played, heared and experienced and YouTube armchair travelling just does not suffice for the experience in realy life. . .
Yes. For this sort of multi-channel system I really like the power meters as an indication that all is well and to show which amp has a signal. We're up to about 30 channels on this organ at present.
There's another reason also - for many years I have been using speaker drivers which don't like being driven beyond, variously, 10W to 50W, and when doing music outside to accompany fireworks, it's really useful to know when one is approaching the limit.
There is absolutely no point in getting two million stops hoping to "play everything". I'd rather have several individual organs of different styles. And you cannot have one manual in one temperament, and another in a different temperament.
:-) Yes! I understand where you are coming from. But as a concert instrument, it is possible to excite audiences with any repertoire here. But temperament - sometimes I have forgotten to change all sections to the same temperament and . . . quite agree. However, some players have said that the effect is "exciting" - but that excitement is best left to the realm of experiment rather than performance!
I came across the recording entitled "Dr David Pitches plays the pedals" which demonstrates this organ quite well - I think when we might have remembered to set everything to the same temperament. Might be worth plugging the phrase into the search box and hearing . . . HAPPY NEW YEAR!
(David didn't use the 128ft on that video however)
I think that it's likely that the method I'm using wouldn't work - but actually whilst 4Hz can be consciously heard in its seperate beating but as a vibration from which all notes higher derive, I'm not at all sure that a vibration every half second would be really meaningful in supporting everything higher. The reality is that it would be most certainaly confused with the rhythm of music, becoming a rhythmic event in itself. The fun of the Hammerwood organ is really in making music not noise.
Hi! Thanks! Jeremy Filsell performed on the instrument last week - and was brilliant as one would expect. However, I was really surprised as I started the 64/128ft work really partly as a bit of a joke, and partly to see what it would sound like. Also my work on trying to recreate the spirit of the Albu reeds . . . However, Jeremy used both, and to great musical and dramatic effect.
If you want to come and try them, then please do. Organists are always welcome for pleasure or performance.
If you don't mind me sayin, but it seems a bit messy there ;) But I have to say that is a rather interesting organ. I do hope you can get a better recording of those sounds.
gwpritchrd 4 months ago
@gwpritchrd One can't be inventive without having the stuff laying around to put together . . . ! On the video "Latrobian Whirl" the 128ft is used for some notes . . .
latribe 4 months ago
@latribe I know what you mean there hahaha, my room was a mess when I tried to hook my pedals up to my keyboard. I'll have to check it out!
gwpritchrd 4 months ago
You should use a rotary woofer . HAS Flat frequency response all the way down to DC. The rotary woofer can do a 120 db or greater spl from 1-20hz. And you only need 200 watts. Plus it uses very low pressure which results in very low bass that is real.
TheElectronicaman 9 months ago
Could I ask you why you chose 18" units instead of multiple 15" units? It's just that back in the '70's I gave up using 18" units on continuous bass as the cones tend to distend on very low frequencies. Even Altec Lansing units were prone to this "cone flexing". The enclosures were very well tuned but the !8" units were very unforgiving. Do they use better materials for cones now? Lovely job by the way!
kaferere 10 months ago
@kaferere Thanks so much for your kind comment which is much appreciated. Good point about 18 inch units - I had them to hand and big surface area shifting lots of air was the idea . . . and perhaps you're right. For very low frequencies, car subwoofers simply don't flex at all and perhaps they'd be my choice possibly in doing it again . . .
latribe 9 months ago
@latribe That's a good point, I forgot about the car subwoofer market. The last organ I worked on was back in the seventies, an old Miller in Anfield church, I've had my feet out of the water for quite a while. I hope you can post a video when you're all done, it really looks great. Thanks again.
kaferere 9 months ago
Nice! Love the solution. Been designing various subwoofer solutions to reproduce a 64' pipe as reference and lower if possible for a hifi purpose.
If you were to do this again or look for more output and don't mind a 80hz lowpass; look no further than the exodus maelstrom x21. Response to 6hz in a sealed enclosure and a tuned port does even more with tradeoffs. I'd doubt 18s are going to get 128ft, 2x21" cant! Here's hoping though with the right room...
Awesome work!
N4CR5 1 year ago
@N4CR5 Unless made very large a sealed box will raise the free air resonance of any driver. If a true sub-10Hz response is required, at full power, then you should investigate infinite baffle subwoofers. Four 15" or four 18" IB drivers using a room, a loft, or a cellar for an enclosure are ideal. A ported enclosure produces more distortion than it does clean sound and should be strictly avoided for organ use. The 21" driver may be too large to avoid cone breakup. Better to use more 18"s or 15"s.
Tricyklist 1 year ago
@Tricyklist
You got it bang on, most 21"s are pro drivers with low xmax, I want sound quality over all, if I need more air I'll build a second; my design settled with IB 1x 21" @ 16hz fs 21.5 BL 89.6db/w and .39qts 32mm one way xmax (40mm xmech), targeting 113db@20hz and 102db@10hz without room rise and inaudible group delay, concrete mold box at 10-11ft/3, looking around 1200w per voice coil from each nxv-800 monoblock, damping for africa and overspec transformers to keep a handle on it :D
N4CR5 1 year ago
@N4CR5 Enjoy! :-) I'd still rather get my displacement from a load of 15s or 18s in a huge IB rear volume, on more gentle power, using mutual coupling. My undersized IB enclosure is only 600cu ft using 8 x 15"s. It ought to be double that volume or more. Despite this, any time I see serious cone movement the house will probably fall down. On organ an IB leaves little to be desired for SQ and realistic power. Our host, latribe, should be adding more 18" drivers in an IB manifold. ;-)
Tricyklist 1 year ago
@Tricyklist
Wheee! That's a wicked setup you have there, true tower of power! Awesome swept volume, brilliant. You must get some awesome reactions to that rig. I'm not settled into a house yet, renting around so unfortunately truely epic subwoofers such as yours are not as much of an option.. one day though. 80-100kg 21" sub will be bad enough to move lol. Happy clean deep bass to you my fellow basshead ^__~
And I can't wait to see what latribe gets up to next hehehe :D
N4CR5 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
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osanithaksila 1 year ago
You should put a dehumidifier in that corner to stop the damp because it will destroy and corrode everything
acorntechnique 1 year ago
im confused by feet of sounds?
Vladflame 1 year ago
@Vladflame Hi!
It's associated with the wavelength - so a 16ft organ stop is a 16ft pipe on bottom C giving 32 Hz, 32ft is 16Hz, 64ft is 8Hz, 128ft is 4Hz. A 512ft pipe would be around 1 Hz!
latribe 1 year ago
@latribe thankyou for explanation sir! yeah i get it now, jolly good, is the set out for the organ a step configuration? as in bottom c at the bottom and going up to the top set of keys or are the five sets of keys for different things?
Vladflame 1 year ago
@Vladflame The keyboards, known as manuals, are all exactly the same but have access to different sets of stops so that one can jump from one to another to achieve different tone colours within the piece. See the two videos "Hugh Potton Reubke" and you'll see how it's played using the different manuals.
latribe 1 year ago
@latribe so each middle c in each of the manuals is the same pitch with a different tone colour?
Vladflame 1 year ago
@latribe
So you wouldn't hear anything larger than a 32 foot stop ? - 20hz being lowest frequency we can hear ??
peletonkambing 10 months ago
@Vladflame
I believe it refers to how long the pipe would have to be to produce the tones. The 128' tone would require a 128' pipe, but they are using speakers in this case instead.
JazzIsaac 11 months ago
On my video, Virgil Fox playing Bach's Come Sweet Death, what gives the Wanamaker organ the very deep bass just over half way through the second verse?
silverstartrucker 1 year ago
man this reminds me of the pipe organ in St.James being played during the funeral. its been a while since i have been to the church but it was a surprising reminder of how good it sounded
immadodgeguy 2 years ago
Hi! You'll enjoy "Ben Scott Vierne Carillon de Westminster Hammerwood Organ " - I think the 128ft comes out on the last note. Best wishes.
latribe 2 years ago
I might not be able to sing in an 128ft tone but maybe my Pajero with a hole in the exhaust can :)
I remember some time back in the 80's maybe a recital billed as the "battle of the organs" at Coventry Cathedral which was an electronic organ vs, the Harrison Organ, personally I think the Harrison won, it certainly rattled my teeth.
inregionecaecorum 2 years ago
Yes - Harrisons are Rolls Royces of organs and a commercial electronic instrument imported for a "battle of organs" circus won't be nearly as good. I don't promote electronic organs - I'm just promoting the music . . . and if you search "Hugh Potton Reubke" and "Hugh Potton Cochereau" you'll hear just how good it can get.
latribe 2 years ago
...18"?!? like Steve Meade's 8 18's??!?! AH YEA!
cjtskater1 2 years ago
simulated 128' stop sounds rather like a tug-boat's motor at idle ...
Contratrombone64 2 years ago
Well . . . yes! My wife thought that I had started up the Unimog outside when I first invented it. It comes in two versions - a "flue" and a "reed" - the reed sounding more diesel-like and the flue modulating everything above - and importantly you can feel it in real life in a way that you cannot experience through YouTube.
I did it not quite purely as a joke, but to see what it would be like. In reality on full organ it does usefully underpin the music above it. Can be applied to pipework.
latribe 2 years ago
Did you raid some Rastafarians tea party for those sub woofers - not bad...but 128 ft is really subsonic...it's more to feel the music so will never reproduce on U-Tube. Nice work!
moshchops 2 years ago
Yes! It's great fun. You can feel it in real life but on YouTube it just modulates automatic volume control systems and makes the organ sound awful - but that's the point - organs are there to be played, heared and experienced and YouTube armchair travelling just does not suffice for the experience in realy life. . .
So come and visit and you'll be welcome
latribe 2 years ago
@latribe great comment.
kixshake 1 year ago
I come for the organs, I stay for your enthusiasm.
Cindermakers 3 years ago 2
Hi!
Yes. For this sort of multi-channel system I really like the power meters as an indication that all is well and to show which amp has a signal. We're up to about 30 channels on this organ at present.
There's another reason also - for many years I have been using speaker drivers which don't like being driven beyond, variously, 10W to 50W, and when doing music outside to accompany fireworks, it's really useful to know when one is approaching the limit.
latribe 3 years ago
ARE THOSE AMPS TECHNICS
marinlaw 3 years ago
There is absolutely no point in getting two million stops hoping to "play everything". I'd rather have several individual organs of different styles. And you cannot have one manual in one temperament, and another in a different temperament.
cliveso 3 years ago
:-) Yes! I understand where you are coming from. But as a concert instrument, it is possible to excite audiences with any repertoire here. But temperament - sometimes I have forgotten to change all sections to the same temperament and . . . quite agree. However, some players have said that the effect is "exciting" - but that excitement is best left to the realm of experiment rather than performance!
latribe 3 years ago
I came across the recording entitled "Dr David Pitches plays the pedals" which demonstrates this organ quite well - I think when we might have remembered to set everything to the same temperament. Might be worth plugging the phrase into the search box and hearing . . . HAPPY NEW YEAR!
(David didn't use the 128ft on that video however)
latribe 3 years ago
This is stunning! the most that mankind got is a 64' stops. I think that this is the very first 128' stop that we have. Can you try a 256' stop?
y11971alex 3 years ago
I think that it's likely that the method I'm using wouldn't work - but actually whilst 4Hz can be consciously heard in its seperate beating but as a vibration from which all notes higher derive, I'm not at all sure that a vibration every half second would be really meaningful in supporting everything higher. The reality is that it would be most certainaly confused with the rhythm of music, becoming a rhythmic event in itself. The fun of the Hammerwood organ is really in making music not noise.
latribe 3 years ago
crickey, good luck with the 64' and 128' registers, hope the building doesn't fall down! Nice commentary, thanks for posting!
ds1868 3 years ago
Hi! Thanks! Jeremy Filsell performed on the instrument last week - and was brilliant as one would expect. However, I was really surprised as I started the 64/128ft work really partly as a bit of a joke, and partly to see what it would sound like. Also my work on trying to recreate the spirit of the Albu reeds . . . However, Jeremy used both, and to great musical and dramatic effect.
If you want to come and try them, then please do. Organists are always welcome for pleasure or performance.
latribe 3 years ago
looking forward to seeing that in action!
vegunited06 3 years ago
This is one of my most favorite videos of yours! The other one I like best is the one demonstrating the 64' and 128' stops! :D
~Cindy! :)
..
CindyBradyTooh 3 years ago
I see you are even more bass crazy than I am! :D
I *LOVE* your bass speakers! :)
~Cindy! :)
CindyBradyTooh 3 years ago