@soterioss8787 Incidentally, I must agree with a great deal of the other ideas your comment presented. I too have noticed that a lot of converts to Islam come from a Christian background; but what you describe as misunderstanding, I describe as recognition of the ridiculousness of some of Christianity's core claims. (For example, the incarnation: that G-d can be both G-d and non-G-d, and that yet He remains unchanged.)
@soterioss8787 Indeed, a Jew might ask a Christian what, precisely, is so unique about Christianity's dying and rising god-man. We find the cultures which surrounded Israel were heavily pregnant which such ideas, and in Jesus, we see them combined with a very seriously distorted image of moshiach, Hebrew scripture, as well as monotheism.
As some joke: Mormonism was permitted by G-d so that Christians can know how Jews feel. I submit a similar analogy for Islam.
@julio14335 Conversion to Judaism is quite possible: but it takes a very long time, and is the result of serious study. According to Judaism, non-Jews have just as much potential for living a life worthy of their Creator as do Jews; you do not need to become a Jew to please G-d, but you do need to do things such as cast aside idolatry. (Belief that a man was G-d incarnate, for example).
Nobody can understand or grasp the concept of trinity infact many christian scholars say that the trinity is a mystery and that you cannot understand the nature of God.
@ExtremeEnergyForce This is very true, but that always comes across as an excuse, as I see it. You can't say things that are mutually exclusive are both true by invoking the magic word "mystery".
Consider the great deal of fighting, discussion, and debate that went on in the earliest centuries as to what, precisely, Jesus was. The ultimate decision on this controversial subject was simply the Catholic Church invoking sacred authority.
@ExtremeEnergyForce Just to make it simple, orthodox Judaism would generally consider the trinity to be idolatry, and thus a totally depraved and insane insult to G-d. But of course, some Jews are Christians, others are Muslims, others are atheists or even Hare Krishnas.
In some views, Christianity is simply a mixture of some elements of Hebrew religion and some elements of Hellenic religion and philosophy. Things like god-men are "Greek to us".
Too anyone finding themselves in agreement with the quote found in the Video Description; the title of the debate is "Does the Trinity equal polytheism?" and where else would you find this answer but in the Bible? This is a biblical concept and therefore it follows that you should look at what the Bible teaches.
Abdullah has a great way of illustrating his beliefs about God, a God-given gift im sure he agrees, but i found myself nodding in agreement as a christian......
@Feen161 But is it really true that the trinity is a biblical concept rather than simply a concept of tradition, finally authorised as being "correct" by the power of the Catholic Church? In my understanding of history, the latter is correct.
As a Jew, I would be utterly shocked to hear that a sane, rational, unbiased, and fair person could read the Hebrew bible and walk away with a perception of the trinity: it is certainly not there, and I would argue only John comes close in the NT.
Rational thinking, which is this mohamaden's line of argument, then he should sit down, read his koran & ask what kind of god would command all others be killed unless they convert &declare that there is no other god but allah and mohamed is his prophet? Isn't that "shirik" in islam? That allah would make his follwers declare a partnership with a mere mortal such as mohamad? You don't see Jews or Christians going about saying there is not god but YHWH and Moses is His prophet do you?
James can't condemn the gods of religions like hindus if he says his mind can't grasp the christian God in relationship of time and space, the reason he accepts Trinity. it is confusing that God will enter creation not by Himself but by 'son', yet James argued how can muslim limit God to not being able or willing to enter. well God didn't do it, and claiming that God had walked the earth with others before, it is interesting that the Bible says no one has seen God and lived. Jesus is God still?
@lionabbass It is silly to argue that G-d is limiting Himself by not "being able or willing" to take on flesh. G-d does not change; He cannot be both creature and Creator; He cannot be both G-d and non-G-d.
Such concepts were alien to every race, to every culture, to every society save one: the Hebrews, and if it were not for Sinai, not even we would have known. We were there and we saw it, Baruch Hashem.
@YetzerTov12 its sillier to say God doesnt restrict Himself from something, even that He can do it. Why become man, but not woman, or some others, if we consider what hindus and others worship, eg rats? But the Bibles say God is Unseen the opposite of the concept that He is a man on earth, considering that Jesus worshiped and cried to God in heaven. Hebrews could not be the first to know about God, because Adam, Noah etc did. who was the 1st Hebrew and who was his first offspring?
@lionabbass Of course, I mean that the Hebrews were the first culture, race, and society that universally understood monotheism. The Patriarchs of the Hebrews likewise knew and saw G-d; but it was at Sinai that the culmination of such things took place. The Hebrews didn't understand G-d merely as a theory, but because all of them were there and "saw and heard" him. 3 million of our fathers stood at Sinai and heard G-d; no other religion claims such a thing.
@YetzerTov12 be4 da jews the culture lead by Enoch knew about da absolute God. And God is not seen at anytime. U must be mistaking the Angel Jacob struggle with for God. And da elders of da children of Israel told Moses because day were afraid of da wrath of God. Moses didnt c God in da Burning Bush, but heard His Voice, Adam definitely heard His voice and Adam was not a Hebrew. Your 4fadas were so sure of God that they created a golden calf idol god cow out of stolen egyptian gold.
@lionabbass Incidentally, Sinai is a wonderful contrast with things like Islam: where one individual goes off into a cave and comes back claiming revelation. The same sort of thing can be seen in other religions like Buddhism, or in Christianity, where someone as authoritative as Paul got his authority from "seeing" Jesus in "a vision". Where would Christianity be if not for Paul and his vision? At Sinai, it was a whole nation, and not merely one person or a small group.
@YetzerTov12 And Moses went to a burning bush and came back with a religion! the religion is so different from talking to the wall of Jerusalem of today. In Madina, a crowd of jewish scholars became muslims. those stiff necked to reject it new that when they asked their tricky questions, revelation came to answer them leaving them shameful and condemned. go read up on Moses [as], a muslim by religion.
@lionabbass Well, let's be fair: Moses started not a religion after the burning bush, but the beginning of the removal of the Hebrews from amongst Egypt. This event culminated at Sinai, where 3,000,000 Hebrews heard G-d speaking. No other event in all of human history, and no other religion, ever claims such a thing. I will offer you one more message, where I will quote you something from Devarim, the fifth book of the Torah....
@YetzerTov12 lets be honest; Moses never start a religion, but followed the religion of Abraham, who followed the religion of Noah, who followed the religion of Adam and none and it was not jewish religion. your forefathers could have been more than 3 mils. the reality is that they made a golden God and they were idolaters the reason they spent 40 years on a next day journey. You must tell us when Moses start a religion and was it putting sticking prayer paper in a wall?
@lionabbass Devarim 4, starting at the 32nd verse:
For ask now regarding the early days that were before you, since the day that God created man upon the earth, and from one end of the heavens to the other end of the heavens, whether there was anything like this great thing, or was the likes of it heard? Did ever a people hear God's voice speaking out of the midst of the fire as you have heard, and live?...
@YetzerTov12 miidst of the fire? was that not the burning bush when Moses was alone? Prophet Jeremiah was truthful when he called out the lies of the jews corrupting the revelation given to late Moses. The children of Israel said to Moses we do not want to hear God lest we die. Which is it hearing God or leaving hearing God to Prophet Moses who was protected and chosen by God. Your lip service of writing G-d asGod will not benefit your dishonesty.
@lionabbass Or has any god performed miracles to come and take him a nation from the midst of a[nother] nation, with trials, with signs, and with wonders, and with war and with a strong hand, and with an outstretched arm, and with great awesome deeds, as all that HASHEM your God did for you in Egypt before your eyes? You have been shown, in order to know that HASHEM, He is God; there is none else besides Him...
@YetzerTov12 Allah took muslims from oppression in Makka and planted them in Madina and return them to Makka to rid it of paganism. Yahweh never return the children of Israel to own Egypt. think about that. Allah completes His Favor of Upright Faith on Muslims. Has your G-d done that for you since you can be a jew and be a buhhdist, a jew by religion and be a buhhdist, while if you are true Muslim the Quran and authentic hadith forbids you to be anything else but a Muslim. think.
@lionabbass Incidentally, I know that you as a Muslim must believe that G-d (a) revealed Torah and (b) that the Torah as we have it is somehow not the same Torah that G-d gave at Sinai, before 3,000,000 individuals. You believe this is true why? Because you must believe that the Qur'an is true; which you would not have if not for one individual claiming revelation, just as every other religion does.
All this aside: Allahu Akbar and Baruch Hashem. May our lives be pleasing to G-d.
@YetzerTov12 Moses got what he got of revelation in one event which included the 10 Commandments, while he returned to your installing a Yahweh in form of golden calf. Do you think God will talk to idolaters except to either punish or warn them? DO you think God will talk to idolaters in the manner you are suggesting with your forefathers? Jeremiah says that you doctored what was revealed to Moses. Why doctored? Jeremiah said because they thin they are wise, maybe wiser than G-d?
And islams comprehension of the trinity revolves around God, Jesus, and Mary. Not God, Jesus, And the Holy Spirit, as our doctrine teaches, now sir/mam I'm not islamophobic, I'm very much friends with many people, from various religions, I'm am just saying what I believe, as you are. Though your comments have been rude in nature to me, I forgive you for your outbursts of anger against me. Thank you for responding, and Grace, Mercy, and Peace be upon you.
Peace. First of all, I like your positive attitude but and i don't mean to be offensive but I feel obligated to tell u that Islam does not misunderstand the trinity. It is ur misunderstanding of 5:116 that caused this problem. The truth is "SOME" Christians do worship Mary.
Isn't this a Catholic prayer ?
"Hail, holy Queen, Mother of Mercy,........To thee do we cry.......Turn then, most gracious advocate, thine eyes of mercy toward us.........."
@h2dude69 Man! Fantastic answer, yes that is a CATHOLIC prayer, but I am not catholic and never have claimed to be, I and many of my fellow christian friends do not believe catholics to even be christian, as they do pray and entrust their souls to mary, which is never even stated to do in the bible, while Jesus does say to give him our souls for salvation, I agree Sir/Mam, it is a very grievous sin, and I'd like to say many religions are called chrisitan cause they believe that christ
@h2dude69 was a something more than a man, yet do not worship him for his truthful position in the christian religion, Catholics, have trust in mary, Mormons have a belief that they have equaility with Christ, and many more have downfalls to what the true "Christian" relgion adheres to and addresses, though they are labeled christian, it is a religion nonetheless, and all religion is is a classification of groups of people, I am a follower of christ, not a religion
So you see in 5:116 [..Allah will say, "O Jesus, Son of Mary, did you say to the people, 'Take me and my mother as deities besides Allah ?'] This isn't the trinity as the critics claim. Its for the people who do these things
I've spoken to Christians who even reject the trinity by saying its not in the Bible. So when Quran talks about Trinity, its not going for the Christian doctrine only,its warning ppl with those Beliefs
@h2dude69 Thanks, I loved this conversation, again I'd like to say just because a religion is called christian doesn't mean its really christian, and because a person calls him/herself christian doesn't truly mean their christian, in the end, researching and praying on your own will be the way to find the truth, God won't let you go astray in finding his will.
And unfortunately I've seen debates disclaiming Paul's discpleship, regardless the belief my Bible says and correlates perfectly he was. I'm not asking you to change your views overnight, but I have taken the time to comprehend the Qu'ran to the best of my ability, and watch what the Qu'ran teaches. But sir the truth is Islam came 600 years after Christianity, from a man who truly didn't know about it, there were no copies of the Bible in arabic at the time,
No, Christ never asked to be worshiped, I understand that, but in my Bible, which I do read, He Says many times that He is the I am, the Beginning and the End, Alpha and Omega, He shared Gods Glory before the world began and upon death would return to it, He said he was the only way into heaven, He said he was the truth and the light, He said he came to save us, and knowingly died on a cross for us. Not choosing to accept it is your choice, but sir/mam, please don't be rude. I'm not being rude.
Haha listen muslim, 1- Quran states the both and gospels are perfect and are to b followed. What's better is Quran says me as a Christian must follow what is written in bible to go to heaven. Since we have documents that predate muhamed that show no corruption has taken place you're faced with a hard fact. Quran is false Allah is not yaweh. Let's not forget of the 99 names of Allah father abd yawed are not given. Deceiver is.
@mumswording LOL you're such an idiot. The Quran says the "Injil" revealed to Jesus AT THE TIME was the truth and over time has been corrupted which we can see today! Subhanallah!! The Quran is the FURQAN, the gold standard. We are told to "choose between" the scriptures of the past and take anything that matches what the Quran teaches and throw away everything else which has been corrupted. Allah is God in Arabic. Arab Christians and Jews say Allah. And err no Deceiver is not.
@soterioss8787 Well the fact is Islam is Original, Trinity is a pagan concept never taught or believed in by Jesus or his disciples. Paul is not his disciple.
The church didn't change "theology", the belief in Christs deity existed even before the start of the church. By saying that, you would even say Gnosticism has shaped christianity. Which Gnosticism was a 2nd century religion that thought jesus was a walking spirit and God was an evil Demiurge. So itsmrfz, your argument, invalid.
@livingforchrist1225 Err you need to learn your history my friend. Early Christians, disciples and the family of Jesus never believed him to be God. Futhermore the Bible is clear that the greatest commandment is that the Lord your God is ONE!!! Trinitarian christians cant even stick to the greatest commandment lol. The trinity was voted in at the treaty of Nisea by Constantine well after Jesus..bet you didnt know that your theology is based on a VOTE LOL...because the bible is so ambiguous.
What all-loving God would not give someone a reason to believe? How can an incoherent book be followed for the whole of mankind? Simply put it cant, as humans he created us rationally thus we can deduce truth from falsehood...consequently finding Al-Islam.
@itsmrfz1 funny... because in this debate your proponent of Islam provided no evidence of this. Christianity uses blind faith and no reasoning? Did you even listen at all to James White?
@cctman also funny that James Whites arguments were completely muddled and the fact that we need a debate for what should be the most simplest universal idea innate within us - the idea of one God proves just this. It should be so simple to understand barely any Christians can explain coherently their theology of the trinity and the fact that it was summoned by a Church 300 years or so later. The majority of Christians dont know their history nor have a simple straightforward concept of God..
@cctman LOL this is precisely why people like you and other christians believe him to be the "lord and saviour" BECAUSE you're not reading your Bibles! If you knew a tiny bit about your own faith you'd know Jesus never asked to be worshipped and never claimed divinity. Worship the creator not the creation thats how you will be saved.
@cctman it should be simple, One God - Prophets, end of. Just like all the other prophets and men sent by God Jesus (pbuh) emphasised to Worship the creator not the creation even going ahead and saying its the greatest commandment, yet Christians have broken the greatest commandment due to being mislead by the Church who have changed your theology.
The problem is with christians is that when you talk to unitarians, they believe that God is one diety, and that jesus(pbuh) was a man, you talk to trininatarians they tell you that catholics, and that unitarians are wrong, and that they are the only right ones, so its pretty bad, and I as a muslim don't bother with the christians its a waste of time and breath, as the quran says "to you be your way, to me be mine"
In a mmater of the fact the Christians are not in agreement, some believe in trinity & others don't. Some believe Jesus in only the son of God and some believe he's God in 3 defferent persons but all are the same & have equel power.
I spoke with one of my Christians friend & he told me that in these days there is as many as over 2000 defferent groups of Christians.
I say if they are all the same then why do we see Jesus pray to God the father, why never heard the father pray to the son?!Please
God is our Creator and He has the power to mold us according to His plan. We are nothing but clay relying on the Potter’s wonderful working and the more we submit to His molding process, the more we will come out pleasing before Him.
moderator says GOD is not the author of confusion and he is' nt mans logic is always to tell GOD how he should do things,( here is my Blue print GOD show yourself like this) But to GOD is not like us he is greater it is not for us to bring GOD to our own understanding but for GOD to bring us to his.
Isaiah 64:8 But now, O LORD, thou art our father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand.
HE said GOD gave us a mind what he should had said is GOD gave us the spirit of discernment. He gave us a mind to be filled with his knowledge not our own.
GOD says:
Trust in the LORD with all your heart, And lean not on your own understanding [Proverbs 3:5]
Christians believe GOD brings the heavens and earth especially the earth to his subjection on his own! Muslems believe that they have to help to bring it into subject by several tactics can mans heart be changed by whip,a sword, aggression? true change be enforced? I believe not; you can scare him into the religion, if Jesus is not in him, but I doubt in his heart the man would change. peace to all mankind I have no problems with my brothers who are created by GOD.
The muslem said that he left Christianity because it did not offer nothing to this world
1 John 2
15 Do not love this world nor the things it offers you, for when you love the world, you do not have the love of the Father in you.16 For the world offers only a craving for physical pleasure, a craving for everything we see, and pride in our achievements and possessions. These are not from the Father, but are from this world.
To any intelligent human-being - my contention is: why would nobody never want to know about the one faith [i.e. Islam] or read the one scripture [i.e. Quran], which is at the centre of almost all global political, social, legal and military subjects? Think about it!
james white kinda sucks...he quotes secular orientalist books an claims to be islamic books...
and ofcourse like every christian he can never give a rational explanation for christian concepts because there are no rational explanations for christian concepts...
"The Bible does not teach the doctrine of the trinity. Neither the word trinity itself, nor such language as one in three, three in one, one essence or substance or three persons, is biblical language.
The language of the doctrine is the language of the ancient Church, taken not from the Bible but from classical Greek philosophy
[Shirley C. Guthrie, Jr., Christian Doctrine, p 92]."
You can always tell a deceived person because he does not recognize his own ASSUMPTIONS. That is basically how hypnotism works: Get someone to adopt an assumption unknowingly.
There's nothing wrong with having assumptions, but the Christian knows what his assumptions are.
But Abdullah fancies that he arrived at his assumptions through logic. But any sober person knows that logic flows from our assumptions, not the other way around. Rationalist deception.
Dualism: The physical world is tainted and fallen, the Spirit is holy. Never the twain shall meet.
But John 1:14 says that the Word became flesh and dwelt among us.
So White's question still stands: Why can't God do this?
Abdullah tries to use definitions of God with terms that limit God from becoming part of His creation. That is all the "unmoveable rock" philosophical question is: nothing but a loaded question.
Obviously that's why I hold the Jehovah's Witnesses view when it comes to the bible. A Jehovah's Witness would have set this muslim brother on the straight and narrow for sure!! They do teach the truth when it comes to the Father, the Son, the HOLY SPIRIT!! Jesus is Not co-equal with the Father. Jesus had a begining according to Colossians1:15 "He is the image of the invisible God (YAHWEH) or (JEHOVAH) the first born of ALL creation!
@paramebolas i beleive the first creation was adam and eve yu need more info so ur saying god is the first born of all creation how was god born , an invisible god i never herd of this .
The Father is not the Son or the HS and the HS is not the Father of the Son, etc. in Trinitarian doctrine. Therefore, Yahweh the Father, Yahweh the Son, and Yahweh the Holy Spirit, are not the same identity in Trinity doctrine. Then count therefore how many distinct Yahweh's: 3. Also add Yahweh the Triune Being which is also none of the aforementioned three by identity. That comes to 4 Yahweh's.
James White: Holy spirit didn't come into flesh, The Father didn't come into flesh. But Jesus (god man) come into flesh.
Absolutely, 3 different gods.
No where in OT says God became a man. All of this Christians misinterpretation. No Jews ever believe the idea of God became a man. Look: messianicjewishtruth . com/Genesis18
Abdullah, you are clearly a guy who is searching for God and wish to please him, after watching you here I have no doubt about that. But if you do not believe in Jesus as Christ, you will die in your sins. I'll pray for you sir.
30:24 the Quran is a 'RATIONAL' book? Not hardly. But let's PLAY ALONG with that claim. Would a book written by an INFINITE MIND seem rational to a limited human mind? Or would a book, contrived by one man, over 23 years of thinking and pondering and revision and gradual release of information, approach a work that TO THE HUMAN MIND would seem consistent?
In fact, Islam is a MANB MADE religion SUITED for a limited thought process, and a human rationalization. But NOT the work of the Divine.
@nama: If you are genuinely insteresed in the origins, evolution and composition of the Quran, you are invited to study the scholarly evidence presented in islamic-awareness(dot)org. That should clear away the cobwebs of confusion, ignorance and prejudice you are labouring under.
The Quran is a superior and perfect revelation over the earlier scriptures (as contained in your Bible) as they have been corrupted & tampered with. If you find that hard to digest, read Misquoting Jesus by B. Ehrman.
@nama: Just because you read a book doesn't mean you agree with everything in it. Christians have been reading the Bible for ages but they tend to cherry-pick those verses & commandments that suit them. They are at loggerheads with one another over many things (e.g. women clergy, gay priesthood, same-sex marriage, celibacy, use of contraceptives, going to war, etc). The list keeps growing. The same Bible yet diverse beliefs? Why? Are you not guilty of cherry-picking? Why get upset with Muslims?
@nama: 'Unitarians are completely wrong?' Because they contradict your absurd belief? Why does that not surprise me?
I challenge you to come up with coherent response to their interpretation of the scripture and claims made by Christ which explicitly denies his divinity. Here log on their website - biblicalunitarian(dot)com - and give it a try. No more weak excuses from you.
U 'have less of a problem with the verses' I have given but still a BIG problem in trying to explain them? R u joking?
@nama: Looks like you need to correct your eyesight. I NEVER said that I agree entirely with Dr. Tabor's conclusion. NOR did I claim that his findings are 100% compatible with the teachings of the Quran.
What is interesting, however, is that the authentic teachings of Christ as witnessed by James the Just is much agreeable with the tenets of Islam. Only with Paul the Liar, the whole thing went astray. This theme was further developed by Jeffrey J. Butz in The Secret Legacy of Jesus. Read it.
@nama: You are employing a demented criteria to prop up your incompetent faith. Neither Ali nor Rushdie ever claimed to be scholars on Islam, unlike academics like Ehrman, Tabor, Wilson, Vermes, Saunders and many others who are recognised authorities in their respective fields of Biblical textual criticism and early Christian history. Their scholarly research debunks the invalid claims of your faith.
I have quoted several references disproving Christ's divinity & you couldn't debunk them? Why?
@nama: "The necessity to formulate the doctrine was thrust upon the Church by forces from without, and it was, in particular, its faith in the deity of Christ, and the necessity to defend it, that first compelled the Church to face the duty of formulating a full doctrine of the Trinity for its rule of faith" (New Bible Dictionary, J. D. Douglas & F. F. Bruce, Trinity, p 1298).
So who came up with the Trinity? Neither Christ nor his disciples but the misguided church incorporating pagan beliefs.
@nama: "In the book A Statement of Reasons, Andrews Norton says of the Trinity: 'We can trace the history of this doctrine, and discover its source, not in the Christian revelation, but in the Platonic philosophy . . . The Trinity is not a doctrine of Christ and his Apostles, but a fiction of the school of the later Platonists"
(A Statement of Reasons, Andrews Norton, 1872, Fifth edition, American Unitarian Association, Boston, MA, p 94, 104).
@nama: "The Bible does not teach the doctrine of the trinity. Neither the word trinity itself, nor such language as one in three, three in one, one essence or substance or three persons, is biblical language.
The language of the doctrine is the language of the ancient Church, taken not from the Bible but from classical Greek philosophy [Shirley C. Guthrie, Jr., Christian Doctrine, p 92]."
@nama: If Christ was part of the trinity, why did he worship his Father (Matt 26:39, Luke 6:12)? Isn't the Trinity supposed to be co-equal? Why is the son inferior to the Father? Did the Father worship the son? What does that tell you?
"There is NO evidence the Apostles of Jesus ever heard of a trinity [H. G. Wells, Outline of History, 1920 Edition, p 499]."
"The word trinity is NOT found in the Bible [The Illustrated Bible Dictionary]."
Historical evidence CONTRADICTS your false belief.
@nama: My point in referring to the Jehovah's Witness is to prove that the Christian world was NEVER unanimous in claiming the alleged divinity of Christ. From its beginning, it was fragmented into many diverse sects & holding different interpretations on the nature & mission of Christ. Not every Christian denomination promoted the misguided belief that Christ is synonymous with Godhead. Even today, the Unitarians subscribe to alternative views. Read Lost Christianities by Dr. Bart Ehrman.
@nama: It is u who r suffering from a troubled and deluded theology, my friend. Neither the Bible nor the early history of Christianity support your feeble arguments.
You should do some reading on this subject. Suggest 'How Jesus Became Christian' by Dr. Barrie Wilson, 'The Jesus Dynasty' by Dr. James Tabor and 'The Changing Faces of Jesus' by Dr. Geza Vermes.
Stop believing in the lies planted in you by your misguided church & their twisted interpretation of scripture. Blind faith is futile.
@nama: How could Jesus be God when he openly confessed ignorance of the Hour (Mark 13:32)? Is God ignorant? How could Jesus be eternal when he doesn’t know the future? If Jesus is God why did he refer to the Father as “my God” (John 20:17)? Does God have a God? How many Gods are there? “I can of myself do nothing” (John 5:19, 30). Does God speak such words denoting impotence? Isn’t God Almighty?
It is not only Muslims who deny Jesus' alleged divinity but also Jews, Jeh Witnesses & Unitarians.
@nama: Did Jesus ask his disciples to pray to a Trinity? NO! Instead he instructed them to direct their prayers to the Father ALONE (Matt 6:9, Luke 11:2) who is the ‘only true God’ (John 17:3).
And that was what his disciples did (Acts 4:24). They never prayed to a Trinity but to the Father alone who is also the God of Jesus (Ephesians 1:3). Nor did they ever baptize in the name of a Trinity. Where? When?
@nama: The fact that Christ prayed to a higher being (Matt 26:39, Luke 6:12) is sufficient proof that he is NOT God as God doesn’t indulge in doing prayers.
Jesus is NOT the only son of God as God has sons by the tons (Gen 6:2, 4; Exodus 4:22 ; Jeremiah 31:9; Job 1:6, 2:1, 38:7).
And being son of God DOESN’T make Jesus part of the Godhead but merely as God’s righteous servant (Abdullah in Arabic) as attested in Mark 15:39 c.f. Luke 23:47 as well as Acts 3:13 , 26; 4:27 , 30.
@nama: 'not cherry pick verses and mis contextualize them?' Tell that to your fellow Trinitarian Christians have been doing for ages to prop up their feeble and utterly misguided theology. You are not troubled by their sacrilege and blasphemy? Is it OK for you to lie in the name of God whom Christ worshiped (you deny that?)? Weird.
excuse me but were'nt the original gospels (which no longer exist) ...written in Greek ? I was under the impression that the people of Jerusalem , at least the followers of Jesus, spoke Aramaic ...why do the religious people (unknowing as they are) place any value on these rediculous books which originated in another culture ..more importantly ...why are we human beings so willing to make up truths ...seemingly out of thin air ..James White, I'm sorry to say is just another christian idiot
Did Jesus ask his disciples to pray to a Trinity? NO! Instead he instructed them to direct their prayers to the Father ALONE (Matt 6:9, Luke 11:2) who is the ‘only true God’ (John 17:3). And that was what his disciples did (Acts 4:24). They never prayed to a Trinity but to the Father alone who is also the God of Jesus (Ephesians 1:3). Nor did they ever baptize in the name of a Trinity. Where? When?
If the Trinity is a theological fact and represents the truth from God, surely Jesus would have introduced it to his audience. He had ample opportunity. He would have said something like “Hear O Israel! The Father is God, the Son is God, the Holy Spirit is God, but they are not three Gods but one God”. Did he? NO! Instead he reasserted the absolute and indivisible unity of God who is One and Only (Mark 12:29 c.f. Deut 6:4). What does that tell you?
We have the newest news and the evidence that Jesus is God from Stanley VILLAVINCENCIO city of Cebu in Philippines, he encountered Lord Jesus and nowadays he can hear his inner voice and Jesus appears in his dreams giving him messages about spreading of Jesus mercy to the mankind because Jesus is a merciful God but the time of mercy will not last forever and it will come a time when he comes back to judge everybody, and who doesn’t have atonement for his sins will faces his judgment.
We have the newest news and the evidence that Jesus is God from Stanley VILLAVINCENCIO city of Cebu in Philippines, he encountered Lord Jesus and nowadays he can hear his inner voice and Jesus appears in his dreams giving him messages about spreading of Jesus mercy to the mankind because Jesus is a merciful God but the time of mercy will not last forever and it will come a time when he comes back to judge everybody, and who doesn’t have atonement for his sins will faces his judgment.
Jesus did not hesitate to claim equality with God the Father. The Greek word for equal in John 5:18 is isos, as in an isosceles, or equal-sided, triangle. Jesus was and is “in very nature God,” and therefore was not blaspheming by claiming to be God. The disbelieving Jews had correctly heard Jesus to be making this claim to full deity, even though they rejected His claim. Is Jesus God? The apostle Paul clearly identified Jesus as "being in very nature God".
James slaughtered this guy... who is he anyways? I've seen him in a couple of debates but he sounds like a punk off the streets... hardly a scholar. James deserves someone who is more knowledgeable and who can pack more of a academic punch.
Here is a Christian's blog writer's (known as 'Apologiaphoenix') appraisal of the debate:
"Honestly, I don't think James White did great on this and was disappointed by him. It seems he never answered the rational objections that were given but just said "The Bible teaches this." Yeah. That's what the Bible teaches, but if the Muslim already believed what the Bible teaches, we wouldn't have this problem?"
Yeah but the discussion was is the Trinity polytheism. If the concept of the Trinity is taken from the Bible, then how else is he supposed to explain it. This is where we as Christians get our beliefs.
As a former Muslim, I think that you represented your side fairly well too.
Not to say that the Muslim did much better. I found him quite unconvincing, though it has been awhile since I last listened. Now as to what God would do, why do they think God wouldn't do this? Most answers I hear are pretty base involving a God who goes to the bathroom and such.
@williamstdog9 How can abdullah turn from christianity to islam? when islam fails the first test of historical reliablity, that being Islams belief that jesus didnt die on the cross even in the face of several non biblical sources from antiquity that all attest to jesus bieng crucified.
@GamerFTW21 How come he never went to the Gentiles himself EVER? and also why do the scholars say that these verses that you are mentioning here are Not in the MOST ancient manuscripts?
@GamerFTW21 The word Elohim comes in the Old Testament. So we go to the Jew and ask him, he says its the Plural of "Respect" not a real plural. Strictly speaking Elohim must be translated as GodS which is NOT a TriUne God and I repeat NOT TriUne but more than One. Strangly enough the word Elohim is translated as God and not Gods by the people publishing new versions of the Bible. Since its God's word it does not need revision does it?
@GamerFTW21 yes im posting videos that will give you the refrences noobie ..idont have the time to explain in 20 comments :) ..anyways enjoy ur life ..peace
@GamerFTW21 yes i will show you enjoy !! /watch?v=ciGXtLgvqxA ..i have nothing else to say ..weather u wanna accept it or not thats up to you !! your salvation not mine :)
@GamerFTW21 your new testament was written in greek (copied from the ancient roman's belief with names changing lol ) and jesus (pbuh) never spoke a word in greek when he was walking on this earth ..anyone that has a brain can use it and help himself !!!
@GamerFTW21 i read the bible and i know what im talking about ..did you read it yourself ? i bet not ..go read you old testament then come talk to me about it ..i didnt say that god mentioned himself in plural ..thats like saying WE ..so dont say somthing i didnt mention ..what i said is that there in greek are 2 DIFFERANT NAMES in the same passage reffeing to God ...this isnt talking in plural this is a slight twist of the pen to fool the noobs like yourself !!
@GamerFTW21 you're the ignorant one ..god created you and created everything ..hes the absulate allmighty and nothing is like him ..what crap are you spitting that god looks like us ..your bible is corrupt weather you like it or not ..truth hurts !!
@GamerFTW21 WHY DIDNT THEY MENTION JESUS AS GOD? Abraham , Mouses and Jesus and Mohammed all said worship the 1 and only true god ..MY GOD and YOUR GOD .. ..Mouses even TALKED to god and he didnt say anything about the trinity LOL ..this is people's addition to it cuz this is what you want A FREE ticket to heaven LOL(jesus dying for your sins and ur already saved {paul's copying mithraism}) ..you can fool your selfs all you want but all of us will die one day ..and trust me you will regret it !
@GamerFTW21 ok be honest with your self ..did you even convince yourself with this answer ? LOL ..if god decided to come all the way here then didnt say IM GOD or WORSHIP ME ? then appeared to a guy that wanted to kill him at the begining in a dream ? LOL this is just what you like to think or trying deperatly to prove !! ..anyone that uses his brain would think why didnt ALL the previous prophets mention jesus or anything about the trinity ?? they said worship the ONE TRUE GOD
@GamerFTW21 in the end JESUS WAS NEVER SENT FOR YOU NOOBS LOL ..he was sent the lost sheep of isreal ..the jews but paul told you he came for you lmao ..you christians are jew wannabes LOL
@GamerFTW21 so no need to be a smart ass ..go answer me the rest of mr.ahmed deedat's arguments other than this point :) ..or go watch any debate (shabir ally , dr.zakir naik , sami zatari , adnan rashid , dr.jalal ) all of them owns ur scholars ..they answer logically and on point not like you guys dance around the answer then invent an interpretation in the scriptures lol ..are u kiddin me ? christianity get owned even against judaism in any debate LOL ..go watch a 3 way debate and enjoy LMAO
@GamerFTW21 2ndly no need to mention the date ..simply cuz the new testament contradicts every single teaching of jesus (pbuh) when he was walking this earth ..i showed you in the video i posted with quotes from your own bible (i bet u didnt even watch it LOL ..so go watch it and see how paul copied ancient mithraism for you and enjoy !! ..and if you were a catholic you will be shocked on how similar they are LOL ...u just keep believing in your preachers that gets paid without using ur head :)
@GamerFTW21 loool oh man this guy dr,white is a joke ..he desperatly tries to prove his point ..deedat is a human no matter what ..so what about the rest of his arguments ? or u dont like this part ? :) ...in jhon 1:1 THERE ARE 2 WORDS for god in greek ..so its not talking about the same god no matter how you try to suger cout it :) ..this guy white go watch his debates ..always tries to dance around his answers then gives you HIS OWN thinking of it and his own creation and you believe him \LOL
Your scholars claim the Bible has been changed i.e.: in 300-400CE in Spain in a Latin manuscript, 1 John 5:7 was put in as a footnote. It wasn't until 1516 that Christian theologians persuaded Erasmus to place 1 John 5:7 into next Greek edition of Bible, by translating Latin to Greek & sticking it in, which the KJV & NKJV is based on.
The significant part of 1 John 5:7 doesn't exist in the earliest manuscripts, and was added in Greek Bible in 16CE, which scholars have known for years.
@GamerFTW21 lol ok forget ahmed deedat you dont like him cuz he was owning you from your own bible ..what about the other video i posted ?? ..anyway its up to you ..your salvation not mine ..enjoy your Mithraism religion ..oh! i mean christianity religion lool ..peace noobie !!
lol ok forget ahmed deedat you dont like him cuz he was owning you from your own bible ..what about the other video i posted ?? ..anyway its up to you ..your salvation not mine ..enjoy your Mithraism religion ..oh! i mean christianity religion lool ..peace noobie !!
@GamerFTW21 oh heres the video that will show you how Paul copied ancient pagan religions for you he just changed the names LOL /watch?v=CXfoH4CHETI (ENJOY) and keep blindly following your preachers !!
@GamerFTW21 now i wanna ask you somthing ..do you know the stories of Buddah , kushina , Horus and Mithrus ? they were ancient Pagan gods ...wanna know their stories ? its about a god who sent his own son to die by crucifixion for the sin of mankind ..then resurrected in the 3rd day ..THIS IS ANCIENT MITHRAISM ..does it sound familiar to you ?? YES they paul changed the name for you to jesus christ LOL ..i can show you with proof ..now go watch the debates by ahmed deedat if u have the guts :)
@GamerFTW21 look you seem to have read the comments ..i can show you many verses where paul changed your religion :) ..if you wanna know how your bible was corrupted go watch (mr.ahmed deedat) debates all of them he owned in every single christian scholar :) will show you from your own bible how it was done here on you tube ..i dont wanna list you 20 comments to explain ..
I will have to thank Mr. White for this debate, having watched him explain the christain view on the trinity, i am even stronger in my convictions as a Muslim. Please we need more trinity debates...wheres Jay Smith when one needs him lol?
Feel sorry for White having to argue with a mental retard dilatant who knows little about his own original religion and then accepts going from the frying pan into the fire (islam). You contradicted yourself many times, and when White told you what he believes, you kept going back to your own errant representation of what he said. Truly a monumental waste of time and laughable but that is what islam attracts..errant fools. Ghengis khansays he is messanger of god and I will say sure! Right! S
2).......(such as worldly benefit, status, and renown), they declare: "This is from God." So woe to them for what their hands have written, and woe to them for what they have earned (of the worldly income and the sin thereby)....Qur'an 2 -79
1) Woe, then, to those who write the Book with their hands (interpolating into it their readings of the Scriptures and their explanatory notes thereto, stories from their national history, superstitious ideas and fancies, philosophical doctrines and legal rules) and then, in order to sell it for a trifling price
O men! There has come to you indeed an admonition from your Lord and a healing for what is in the breasts and a guidance and a mercy for the believers. Qur'an (10:57)
Such is God's guidence: He guides therewith whomever he will of his servants. And had they ascribed divinity to aught beside him. In vain indeed would have been all [the good] that they ever did. Qur'an (6.88)
Abdullah looked pretty weak in debate and kept repeating his arguments even though they had been dealt with. He kinda looked nervous in the latter part of the debate.
@MrAngates Really?? Why didn't Jesus say "I AM GOD WORSHIP ME".That would clear everything up.Why would a doctrine directly linked to the salvation of the Christian not be 100% clear? Dr White spent alot of time repeating what others have said and written about Jesus thumbing through the bible trying to find phrases and innuendo to validate the trinity.All prophets came to teach us that god is one including Jesus.There is nothing that god could not see or hear that he needed to become a man
@MrAngates -- IN THE BIBLE - (Jesus Pbuh said)"None of those who call me `Lord' will enter the kingdom of God,but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven."
@MrAngates I MADE MY POINT AND OBVIOUSLY IT DEFEATED YOURS BECAUSE YOU DONT HAVE ONE...YOU ALT TO BE ASHAMED OF YOURSELF FOR CALLING JESUS LORD GOING AGAINST HIS OWN WILL WHO SAID DO NOT CALL ME LORD ___FOR HEAVEN WILL BE REFUSED FOR HIM WHO CALLS ME LORD___
@utubevideniskey In the frist place the text reads.'Not everyone who says to me Lord,Lord
will enter into the kingdom". So there you clearly distorted the text. Now then go to
the next chapter. The centurion comes to him and says Lord. Jesus does not rebuke him he heals his servant after that. Surely Jesus would have rebuke this
non Jew, Not of the houseof Isreal,but he does not!
@MrAngates - So you follow others more then Jesus? (pbuh) lets read the full verse.."Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?' And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'"
2) YOU ARE RIGHT IN THE FIRST PART-BUT THEN NOTE THAT JESUS (PBUH) SAYS ONLY THOSE WHO DO THE WILL OF MY FARTHER( meaning to follow the commandments) as he said earlier "Think not that I (Jesus) am come to destroy the LAW, or the PROPHETS: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled, (THATS Fulfillment of Law of Moses )
3 ) Then NOTE HE SAYS - MANY WILL SAY LORD LORD HAVE WE NOT PROPHECISED IN YOUR NAME, CAST OUT DEMONS IN YOUR NAME AND DONE MANY WONDERS IN YOUR NAME?...SO THE QUESTION IS EVEN AFTER DOING ALL THESE GREAT THINGS JESUS (PBUH) WILL STILL SAY "I NEVER KNEW YOU". WHY DOES HE SAY DEPART FROM ME AND CALL THOSE WHO WILL BE DOING THESE GREAT THINGS THOSE WHO PRACTISE LAWLESSNESS?
@utubevideniskey This means that many people will think they are Christian by calling him Lord, and doing all these great things, etc....but the Father gave no right for them to do these things.....practicing lawlessness, because you were not given the power from the Father to do these things.
So without knowing Jesus and developing a personal relationship him, you cannot do the will of the Father. You have to be one of his chosen. Many in the church act like Christians but are not.
You have to know Jesus. Not just do the acts of a Christian, a Christian is one who is a Christian on the inside.
Notice it is Jesus who we will face on judgment day, he is the way, the truth and the life no one comes to the Father except through him. No other prophet was life, only by knowing God and working personally with him can we have eternal life.
@soterioss8787 Incidentally, I must agree with a great deal of the other ideas your comment presented. I too have noticed that a lot of converts to Islam come from a Christian background; but what you describe as misunderstanding, I describe as recognition of the ridiculousness of some of Christianity's core claims. (For example, the incarnation: that G-d can be both G-d and non-G-d, and that yet He remains unchanged.)
But Islam has problems of its own, certainly!
YetzerTov12 2 weeks ago
@soterioss8787 Indeed, a Jew might ask a Christian what, precisely, is so unique about Christianity's dying and rising god-man. We find the cultures which surrounded Israel were heavily pregnant which such ideas, and in Jesus, we see them combined with a very seriously distorted image of moshiach, Hebrew scripture, as well as monotheism.
As some joke: Mormonism was permitted by G-d so that Christians can know how Jews feel. I submit a similar analogy for Islam.
YetzerTov12 2 weeks ago
Because you must born a jew to become a jew...
julio14335 2 weeks ago
@julio14335 Conversion to Judaism is quite possible: but it takes a very long time, and is the result of serious study. According to Judaism, non-Jews have just as much potential for living a life worthy of their Creator as do Jews; you do not need to become a Jew to please G-d, but you do need to do things such as cast aside idolatry. (Belief that a man was G-d incarnate, for example).
YetzerTov12 2 weeks ago
Nobody can understand or grasp the concept of trinity infact many christian scholars say that the trinity is a mystery and that you cannot understand the nature of God.
ExtremeEnergyForce 1 month ago
@ExtremeEnergyForce This is very true, but that always comes across as an excuse, as I see it. You can't say things that are mutually exclusive are both true by invoking the magic word "mystery".
Consider the great deal of fighting, discussion, and debate that went on in the earliest centuries as to what, precisely, Jesus was. The ultimate decision on this controversial subject was simply the Catholic Church invoking sacred authority.
YetzerTov12 2 weeks ago
@YetzerTov12 Do jews reject the concept of trinity?
ExtremeEnergyForce 2 weeks ago
@ExtremeEnergyForce Just to make it simple, orthodox Judaism would generally consider the trinity to be idolatry, and thus a totally depraved and insane insult to G-d. But of course, some Jews are Christians, others are Muslims, others are atheists or even Hare Krishnas.
In some views, Christianity is simply a mixture of some elements of Hebrew religion and some elements of Hellenic religion and philosophy. Things like god-men are "Greek to us".
YetzerTov12 2 weeks ago
..... instead of substance i found misunderstanding.
Feen161 1 month ago
Too anyone finding themselves in agreement with the quote found in the Video Description; the title of the debate is "Does the Trinity equal polytheism?" and where else would you find this answer but in the Bible? This is a biblical concept and therefore it follows that you should look at what the Bible teaches.
Abdullah has a great way of illustrating his beliefs about God, a God-given gift im sure he agrees, but i found myself nodding in agreement as a christian......
Feen161 1 month ago
@Feen161 But is it really true that the trinity is a biblical concept rather than simply a concept of tradition, finally authorised as being "correct" by the power of the Catholic Church? In my understanding of history, the latter is correct.
As a Jew, I would be utterly shocked to hear that a sane, rational, unbiased, and fair person could read the Hebrew bible and walk away with a perception of the trinity: it is certainly not there, and I would argue only John comes close in the NT.
YetzerTov12 2 weeks ago
Rational thinking, which is this mohamaden's line of argument, then he should sit down, read his koran & ask what kind of god would command all others be killed unless they convert &declare that there is no other god but allah and mohamed is his prophet? Isn't that "shirik" in islam? That allah would make his follwers declare a partnership with a mere mortal such as mohamad? You don't see Jews or Christians going about saying there is not god but YHWH and Moses is His prophet do you?
ripvankev 1 month ago
James can't condemn the gods of religions like hindus if he says his mind can't grasp the christian God in relationship of time and space, the reason he accepts Trinity. it is confusing that God will enter creation not by Himself but by 'son', yet James argued how can muslim limit God to not being able or willing to enter. well God didn't do it, and claiming that God had walked the earth with others before, it is interesting that the Bible says no one has seen God and lived. Jesus is God still?
lionabbass 2 months ago
@lionabbass It is silly to argue that G-d is limiting Himself by not "being able or willing" to take on flesh. G-d does not change; He cannot be both creature and Creator; He cannot be both G-d and non-G-d.
Such concepts were alien to every race, to every culture, to every society save one: the Hebrews, and if it were not for Sinai, not even we would have known. We were there and we saw it, Baruch Hashem.
YetzerTov12 2 weeks ago
@YetzerTov12 its sillier to say God doesnt restrict Himself from something, even that He can do it. Why become man, but not woman, or some others, if we consider what hindus and others worship, eg rats? But the Bibles say God is Unseen the opposite of the concept that He is a man on earth, considering that Jesus worshiped and cried to God in heaven. Hebrews could not be the first to know about God, because Adam, Noah etc did. who was the 1st Hebrew and who was his first offspring?
lionabbass 2 weeks ago
@lionabbass Of course, I mean that the Hebrews were the first culture, race, and society that universally understood monotheism. The Patriarchs of the Hebrews likewise knew and saw G-d; but it was at Sinai that the culmination of such things took place. The Hebrews didn't understand G-d merely as a theory, but because all of them were there and "saw and heard" him. 3 million of our fathers stood at Sinai and heard G-d; no other religion claims such a thing.
YetzerTov12 2 weeks ago
@YetzerTov12 be4 da jews the culture lead by Enoch knew about da absolute God. And God is not seen at anytime. U must be mistaking the Angel Jacob struggle with for God. And da elders of da children of Israel told Moses because day were afraid of da wrath of God. Moses didnt c God in da Burning Bush, but heard His Voice, Adam definitely heard His voice and Adam was not a Hebrew. Your 4fadas were so sure of God that they created a golden calf idol god cow out of stolen egyptian gold.
lionabbass 2 weeks ago
@lionabbass Incidentally, Sinai is a wonderful contrast with things like Islam: where one individual goes off into a cave and comes back claiming revelation. The same sort of thing can be seen in other religions like Buddhism, or in Christianity, where someone as authoritative as Paul got his authority from "seeing" Jesus in "a vision". Where would Christianity be if not for Paul and his vision? At Sinai, it was a whole nation, and not merely one person or a small group.
YetzerTov12 2 weeks ago
@YetzerTov12 And Moses went to a burning bush and came back with a religion! the religion is so different from talking to the wall of Jerusalem of today. In Madina, a crowd of jewish scholars became muslims. those stiff necked to reject it new that when they asked their tricky questions, revelation came to answer them leaving them shameful and condemned. go read up on Moses [as], a muslim by religion.
lionabbass 2 weeks ago
@lionabbass Well, let's be fair: Moses started not a religion after the burning bush, but the beginning of the removal of the Hebrews from amongst Egypt. This event culminated at Sinai, where 3,000,000 Hebrews heard G-d speaking. No other event in all of human history, and no other religion, ever claims such a thing. I will offer you one more message, where I will quote you something from Devarim, the fifth book of the Torah....
YetzerTov12 2 weeks ago
@YetzerTov12 lets be honest; Moses never start a religion, but followed the religion of Abraham, who followed the religion of Noah, who followed the religion of Adam and none and it was not jewish religion. your forefathers could have been more than 3 mils. the reality is that they made a golden God and they were idolaters the reason they spent 40 years on a next day journey. You must tell us when Moses start a religion and was it putting sticking prayer paper in a wall?
lionabbass 2 weeks ago
@lionabbass Devarim 4, starting at the 32nd verse:
For ask now regarding the early days that were before you, since the day that God created man upon the earth, and from one end of the heavens to the other end of the heavens, whether there was anything like this great thing, or was the likes of it heard? Did ever a people hear God's voice speaking out of the midst of the fire as you have heard, and live?...
YetzerTov12 2 weeks ago
@YetzerTov12 miidst of the fire? was that not the burning bush when Moses was alone? Prophet Jeremiah was truthful when he called out the lies of the jews corrupting the revelation given to late Moses. The children of Israel said to Moses we do not want to hear God lest we die. Which is it hearing God or leaving hearing God to Prophet Moses who was protected and chosen by God. Your lip service of writing G-d asGod will not benefit your dishonesty.
lionabbass 2 weeks ago
@lionabbass Or has any god performed miracles to come and take him a nation from the midst of a[nother] nation, with trials, with signs, and with wonders, and with war and with a strong hand, and with an outstretched arm, and with great awesome deeds, as all that HASHEM your God did for you in Egypt before your eyes? You have been shown, in order to know that HASHEM, He is God; there is none else besides Him...
YetzerTov12 2 weeks ago
@YetzerTov12 Allah took muslims from oppression in Makka and planted them in Madina and return them to Makka to rid it of paganism. Yahweh never return the children of Israel to own Egypt. think about that. Allah completes His Favor of Upright Faith on Muslims. Has your G-d done that for you since you can be a jew and be a buhhdist, a jew by religion and be a buhhdist, while if you are true Muslim the Quran and authentic hadith forbids you to be anything else but a Muslim. think.
lionabbass 2 weeks ago
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YetzerTov12 2 weeks ago
@lionabbass Incidentally, I know that you as a Muslim must believe that G-d (a) revealed Torah and (b) that the Torah as we have it is somehow not the same Torah that G-d gave at Sinai, before 3,000,000 individuals. You believe this is true why? Because you must believe that the Qur'an is true; which you would not have if not for one individual claiming revelation, just as every other religion does.
All this aside: Allahu Akbar and Baruch Hashem. May our lives be pleasing to G-d.
YetzerTov12 2 weeks ago
@YetzerTov12 Moses got what he got of revelation in one event which included the 10 Commandments, while he returned to your installing a Yahweh in form of golden calf. Do you think God will talk to idolaters except to either punish or warn them? DO you think God will talk to idolaters in the manner you are suggesting with your forefathers? Jeremiah says that you doctored what was revealed to Moses. Why doctored? Jeremiah said because they thin they are wise, maybe wiser than G-d?
lionabbass 2 weeks ago
@namasteywhat no we do not beleive but we do beleive the second coming of jesus pbuh will return before the day of judgement.
faheemhamz360 3 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Harold Camping was RIGHT about May 21, click on my channel to see...
youneekk 5 months ago
By the way, I couldn't tell, but these posts were for you itsmrfz, you probably wont see them in your email, so anywho, GOD BLESS :)
livingforchrist1225 5 months ago 2
And islams comprehension of the trinity revolves around God, Jesus, and Mary. Not God, Jesus, And the Holy Spirit, as our doctrine teaches, now sir/mam I'm not islamophobic, I'm very much friends with many people, from various religions, I'm am just saying what I believe, as you are. Though your comments have been rude in nature to me, I forgive you for your outbursts of anger against me. Thank you for responding, and Grace, Mercy, and Peace be upon you.
livingforchrist1225 5 months ago
@livingforchrist1225
Peace. First of all, I like your positive attitude but and i don't mean to be offensive but I feel obligated to tell u that Islam does not misunderstand the trinity. It is ur misunderstanding of 5:116 that caused this problem. The truth is "SOME" Christians do worship Mary.
Isn't this a Catholic prayer ?
"Hail, holy Queen, Mother of Mercy,........To thee do we cry.......Turn then, most gracious advocate, thine eyes of mercy toward us.........."
THIS IS A GREVIOUS SIN!!!
h2dude69 5 months ago
@h2dude69 Man! Fantastic answer, yes that is a CATHOLIC prayer, but I am not catholic and never have claimed to be, I and many of my fellow christian friends do not believe catholics to even be christian, as they do pray and entrust their souls to mary, which is never even stated to do in the bible, while Jesus does say to give him our souls for salvation, I agree Sir/Mam, it is a very grievous sin, and I'd like to say many religions are called chrisitan cause they believe that christ
livingforchrist1225 5 months ago
@h2dude69 was a something more than a man, yet do not worship him for his truthful position in the christian religion, Catholics, have trust in mary, Mormons have a belief that they have equaility with Christ, and many more have downfalls to what the true "Christian" relgion adheres to and addresses, though they are labeled christian, it is a religion nonetheless, and all religion is is a classification of groups of people, I am a follower of christ, not a religion
livingforchrist1225 5 months ago
@livingforchrist1225
Thank you :D I'm glad we understand each other.
So you see in 5:116 [..Allah will say, "O Jesus, Son of Mary, did you say to the people, 'Take me and my mother as deities besides Allah ?'] This isn't the trinity as the critics claim. Its for the people who do these things
I've spoken to Christians who even reject the trinity by saying its not in the Bible. So when Quran talks about Trinity, its not going for the Christian doctrine only,its warning ppl with those Beliefs
h2dude69 5 months ago
@h2dude69 Thanks, I loved this conversation, again I'd like to say just because a religion is called christian doesn't mean its really christian, and because a person calls him/herself christian doesn't truly mean their christian, in the end, researching and praying on your own will be the way to find the truth, God won't let you go astray in finding his will.
livingforchrist1225 5 months ago
And unfortunately I've seen debates disclaiming Paul's discpleship, regardless the belief my Bible says and correlates perfectly he was. I'm not asking you to change your views overnight, but I have taken the time to comprehend the Qu'ran to the best of my ability, and watch what the Qu'ran teaches. But sir the truth is Islam came 600 years after Christianity, from a man who truly didn't know about it, there were no copies of the Bible in arabic at the time,
livingforchrist1225 5 months ago
No, Christ never asked to be worshiped, I understand that, but in my Bible, which I do read, He Says many times that He is the I am, the Beginning and the End, Alpha and Omega, He shared Gods Glory before the world began and upon death would return to it, He said he was the only way into heaven, He said he was the truth and the light, He said he came to save us, and knowingly died on a cross for us. Not choosing to accept it is your choice, but sir/mam, please don't be rude. I'm not being rude.
livingforchrist1225 5 months ago
Haha listen muslim, 1- Quran states the both and gospels are perfect and are to b followed. What's better is Quran says me as a Christian must follow what is written in bible to go to heaven. Since we have documents that predate muhamed that show no corruption has taken place you're faced with a hard fact. Quran is false Allah is not yaweh. Let's not forget of the 99 names of Allah father abd yawed are not given. Deceiver is.
mumswording 6 months ago
@mumswording LOL you're such an idiot. The Quran says the "Injil" revealed to Jesus AT THE TIME was the truth and over time has been corrupted which we can see today! Subhanallah!! The Quran is the FURQAN, the gold standard. We are told to "choose between" the scriptures of the past and take anything that matches what the Quran teaches and throw away everything else which has been corrupted. Allah is God in Arabic. Arab Christians and Jews say Allah. And err no Deceiver is not.
itsmrfz1 5 months ago
@soterioss8787 Well the fact is Islam is Original, Trinity is a pagan concept never taught or believed in by Jesus or his disciples. Paul is not his disciple.
MatrixOfDynamism 6 months ago
The church didn't change "theology", the belief in Christs deity existed even before the start of the church. By saying that, you would even say Gnosticism has shaped christianity. Which Gnosticism was a 2nd century religion that thought jesus was a walking spirit and God was an evil Demiurge. So itsmrfz, your argument, invalid.
livingforchrist1225 6 months ago
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@livingforchrist1225 Err you need to learn your history my friend. Early Christians, disciples and the family of Jesus never believed him to be God. Futhermore the Bible is clear that the greatest commandment is that the Lord your God is ONE!!! Trinitarian christians cant even stick to the greatest commandment lol. The trinity was voted in at the treaty of Nisea by Constantine well after Jesus..bet you didnt know that your theology is based on a VOTE LOL...because the bible is so ambiguous.
itsmrfz1 5 months ago
@itsmrfz1 Stop spouting your Islamaphobic nonsense.
itsmrfz1 5 months ago
@livingforchrist1225 and ever since then Church has dominated your theology. Worship God not the creation.
itsmrfz1 5 months ago
James white looks like he's been up for a week straight without sleep lol
ctsfinestjon 7 months ago
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barrettshipp 7 months ago
Christianity = Blind faith using no reason
Islam = The truth found through the use of reason
What all-loving God would not give someone a reason to believe? How can an incoherent book be followed for the whole of mankind? Simply put it cant, as humans he created us rationally thus we can deduce truth from falsehood...consequently finding Al-Islam.
itsmrfz1 8 months ago
@itsmrfz1 funny... because in this debate your proponent of Islam provided no evidence of this. Christianity uses blind faith and no reasoning? Did you even listen at all to James White?
cctman 6 months ago
@cctman also funny that James Whites arguments were completely muddled and the fact that we need a debate for what should be the most simplest universal idea innate within us - the idea of one God proves just this. It should be so simple to understand barely any Christians can explain coherently their theology of the trinity and the fact that it was summoned by a Church 300 years or so later. The majority of Christians dont know their history nor have a simple straightforward concept of God..
itsmrfz1 6 months ago
@itsmrfz1 Good thing because knowledge of history is not a requirement for salvation as is faith in Jesus Christ and who He is.
cctman 6 months ago
@cctman LOL this is precisely why people like you and other christians believe him to be the "lord and saviour" BECAUSE you're not reading your Bibles! If you knew a tiny bit about your own faith you'd know Jesus never asked to be worshipped and never claimed divinity. Worship the creator not the creation thats how you will be saved.
itsmrfz1 5 months ago
@cctman it should be simple, One God - Prophets, end of. Just like all the other prophets and men sent by God Jesus (pbuh) emphasised to Worship the creator not the creation even going ahead and saying its the greatest commandment, yet Christians have broken the greatest commandment due to being mislead by the Church who have changed your theology.
itsmrfz1 6 months ago
@itsmrfz1 what are you talking about?
cctman 6 months ago
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@cctman point proven LOL
itsmrfz1 6 months ago
The problem is with christians is that when you talk to unitarians, they believe that God is one diety, and that jesus(pbuh) was a man, you talk to trininatarians they tell you that catholics, and that unitarians are wrong, and that they are the only right ones, so its pretty bad, and I as a muslim don't bother with the christians its a waste of time and breath, as the quran says "to you be your way, to me be mine"
live215 9 months ago
@live215 surah al kafirun my brother!!!!!!!!!!!
faheemhamz360 3 months ago
@faheemhamz360 yes one of best surah.
live215 2 months ago
@faheemhamz360 Surah kafiroon is abrogated by the medinan verses man.
moneyfloyd23 3 weeks ago
In a mmater of the fact the Christians are not in agreement, some believe in trinity & others don't. Some believe Jesus in only the son of God and some believe he's God in 3 defferent persons but all are the same & have equel power.
I spoke with one of my Christians friend & he told me that in these days there is as many as over 2000 defferent groups of Christians.
I say if they are all the same then why do we see Jesus pray to God the father, why never heard the father pray to the son?!Please
LogicTalk1 9 months ago
God is our Creator and He has the power to mold us according to His plan. We are nothing but clay relying on the Potter’s wonderful working and the more we submit to His molding process, the more we will come out pleasing before Him.
xxjaycxx1 9 months ago
moderator says GOD is not the author of confusion and he is' nt mans logic is always to tell GOD how he should do things,( here is my Blue print GOD show yourself like this) But to GOD is not like us he is greater it is not for us to bring GOD to our own understanding but for GOD to bring us to his.
Isaiah 64:8 But now, O LORD, thou art our father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand.
xxjaycxx1 9 months ago
HE said GOD gave us a mind what he should had said is GOD gave us the spirit of discernment. He gave us a mind to be filled with his knowledge not our own.
GOD says:
Trust in the LORD with all your heart, And lean not on your own understanding [Proverbs 3:5]
xxjaycxx1 9 months ago
Christians believe GOD brings the heavens and earth especially the earth to his subjection on his own! Muslems believe that they have to help to bring it into subject by several tactics can mans heart be changed by whip,a sword, aggression? true change be enforced? I believe not; you can scare him into the religion, if Jesus is not in him, but I doubt in his heart the man would change. peace to all mankind I have no problems with my brothers who are created by GOD.
xxjaycxx1 9 months ago
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xxjaycxx1 9 months ago
17 And this world is fading away, along with everything that people crave. But anyone who does what pleases God will live forever.
xxjaycxx1 9 months ago
The muslem said that he left Christianity because it did not offer nothing to this world
1 John 2
15 Do not love this world nor the things it offers you, for when you love the world, you do not have the love of the Father in you.16 For the world offers only a craving for physical pleasure, a craving for everything we see, and pride in our achievements and possessions. These are not from the Father, but are from this world.
xxjaycxx1 9 months ago
@soterioss8787
"The Jews had very much the same view for thousands of years before Mohammad"
Exactly - the truth is eternal, not something new. You've just answered yourself.
mujtahid2006 10 months ago 10
@mujtahid2006 Exactly. People think Islam is something new. Prophet Adam(p) was a Muslim and practiced Islam.
Jazakallah khair.
JabrilAbdullah 9 months ago
@mujtahid2006: Well, the underpinning nature and attributed characteristic of the Islamic God is comparably distinct from that of the God of Judaism.
dimic 4 months ago
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To any intelligent human-being - my contention is: why would nobody never want to know about the one faith [i.e. Islam] or read the one scripture [i.e. Quran], which is at the centre of almost all global political, social, legal and military subjects? Think about it!
robin4good 10 months ago
james white kinda sucks...he quotes secular orientalist books an claims to be islamic books...
and ofcourse like every christian he can never give a rational explanation for christian concepts because there are no rational explanations for christian concepts...
la ilaha illallah!
khalilrabee 10 months ago
"The Bible does not teach the doctrine of the trinity. Neither the word trinity itself, nor such language as one in three, three in one, one essence or substance or three persons, is biblical language.
The language of the doctrine is the language of the ancient Church, taken not from the Bible but from classical Greek philosophy
[Shirley C. Guthrie, Jr., Christian Doctrine, p 92]."
zorin85 10 months ago
You can always tell a deceived person because he does not recognize his own ASSUMPTIONS. That is basically how hypnotism works: Get someone to adopt an assumption unknowingly.
There's nothing wrong with having assumptions, but the Christian knows what his assumptions are.
But Abdullah fancies that he arrived at his assumptions through logic. But any sober person knows that logic flows from our assumptions, not the other way around. Rationalist deception.
RomansGalatians 10 months ago
Dualism: The physical world is tainted and fallen, the Spirit is holy. Never the twain shall meet.
But John 1:14 says that the Word became flesh and dwelt among us.
So White's question still stands: Why can't God do this?
Abdullah tries to use definitions of God with terms that limit God from becoming part of His creation. That is all the "unmoveable rock" philosophical question is: nothing but a loaded question.
RomansGalatians 10 months ago
Obviously that's why I hold the Jehovah's Witnesses view when it comes to the bible. A Jehovah's Witness would have set this muslim brother on the straight and narrow for sure!! They do teach the truth when it comes to the Father, the Son, the HOLY SPIRIT!! Jesus is Not co-equal with the Father. Jesus had a begining according to Colossians1:15 "He is the image of the invisible God (YAHWEH) or (JEHOVAH) the first born of ALL creation!
paramebolas 10 months ago
@paramebolas i beleive the first creation was adam and eve yu need more info so ur saying god is the first born of all creation how was god born , an invisible god i never herd of this .
faheemhamz360 3 months ago
The Father is not the Son or the HS and the HS is not the Father of the Son, etc. in Trinitarian doctrine. Therefore, Yahweh the Father, Yahweh the Son, and Yahweh the Holy Spirit, are not the same identity in Trinity doctrine. Then count therefore how many distinct Yahweh's: 3. Also add Yahweh the Triune Being which is also none of the aforementioned three by identity. That comes to 4 Yahweh's.
TheTrinityDelusion 11 months ago
James White: Holy spirit didn't come into flesh, The Father didn't come into flesh. But Jesus (god man) come into flesh.
Absolutely, 3 different gods.
No where in OT says God became a man. All of this Christians misinterpretation. No Jews ever believe the idea of God became a man. Look: messianicjewishtruth . com/Genesis18
Christianity is NOT but a paganism.
TrinityDesist 11 months ago
Abdullah, you are clearly a guy who is searching for God and wish to please him, after watching you here I have no doubt about that. But if you do not believe in Jesus as Christ, you will die in your sins. I'll pray for you sir.
truthoutmedia 11 months ago
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another9x9 1 year ago
30:24 the Quran is a 'RATIONAL' book? Not hardly. But let's PLAY ALONG with that claim. Would a book written by an INFINITE MIND seem rational to a limited human mind? Or would a book, contrived by one man, over 23 years of thinking and pondering and revision and gradual release of information, approach a work that TO THE HUMAN MIND would seem consistent?
In fact, Islam is a MANB MADE religion SUITED for a limited thought process, and a human rationalization. But NOT the work of the Divine.
Texas75023 1 year ago
@nama: If you are genuinely insteresed in the origins, evolution and composition of the Quran, you are invited to study the scholarly evidence presented in islamic-awareness(dot)org. That should clear away the cobwebs of confusion, ignorance and prejudice you are labouring under.
The Quran is a superior and perfect revelation over the earlier scriptures (as contained in your Bible) as they have been corrupted & tampered with. If you find that hard to digest, read Misquoting Jesus by B. Ehrman.
zorin85 1 year ago
@nama: Just because you read a book doesn't mean you agree with everything in it. Christians have been reading the Bible for ages but they tend to cherry-pick those verses & commandments that suit them. They are at loggerheads with one another over many things (e.g. women clergy, gay priesthood, same-sex marriage, celibacy, use of contraceptives, going to war, etc). The list keeps growing. The same Bible yet diverse beliefs? Why? Are you not guilty of cherry-picking? Why get upset with Muslims?
zorin85 1 year ago
@nama: 'Unitarians are completely wrong?' Because they contradict your absurd belief? Why does that not surprise me?
I challenge you to come up with coherent response to their interpretation of the scripture and claims made by Christ which explicitly denies his divinity. Here log on their website - biblicalunitarian(dot)com - and give it a try. No more weak excuses from you.
U 'have less of a problem with the verses' I have given but still a BIG problem in trying to explain them? R u joking?
zorin85 1 year ago
@nama: Looks like you need to correct your eyesight. I NEVER said that I agree entirely with Dr. Tabor's conclusion. NOR did I claim that his findings are 100% compatible with the teachings of the Quran.
What is interesting, however, is that the authentic teachings of Christ as witnessed by James the Just is much agreeable with the tenets of Islam. Only with Paul the Liar, the whole thing went astray. This theme was further developed by Jeffrey J. Butz in The Secret Legacy of Jesus. Read it.
zorin85 1 year ago
@nama: You are employing a demented criteria to prop up your incompetent faith. Neither Ali nor Rushdie ever claimed to be scholars on Islam, unlike academics like Ehrman, Tabor, Wilson, Vermes, Saunders and many others who are recognised authorities in their respective fields of Biblical textual criticism and early Christian history. Their scholarly research debunks the invalid claims of your faith.
I have quoted several references disproving Christ's divinity & you couldn't debunk them? Why?
zorin85 1 year ago
@nama: "The necessity to formulate the doctrine was thrust upon the Church by forces from without, and it was, in particular, its faith in the deity of Christ, and the necessity to defend it, that first compelled the Church to face the duty of formulating a full doctrine of the Trinity for its rule of faith" (New Bible Dictionary, J. D. Douglas & F. F. Bruce, Trinity, p 1298).
So who came up with the Trinity? Neither Christ nor his disciples but the misguided church incorporating pagan beliefs.
zorin85 1 year ago
@nama: "In the book A Statement of Reasons, Andrews Norton says of the Trinity: 'We can trace the history of this doctrine, and discover its source, not in the Christian revelation, but in the Platonic philosophy . . . The Trinity is not a doctrine of Christ and his Apostles, but a fiction of the school of the later Platonists"
(A Statement of Reasons, Andrews Norton, 1872, Fifth edition, American Unitarian Association, Boston, MA, p 94, 104).
Get it? Your Trinity is PAGAN in origin. Period.
zorin85 1 year ago
@zorin85
Dude, please be a rational human being.
Thank you
strongyang 10 months ago
@nama: "The Bible does not teach the doctrine of the trinity. Neither the word trinity itself, nor such language as one in three, three in one, one essence or substance or three persons, is biblical language.
The language of the doctrine is the language of the ancient Church, taken not from the Bible but from classical Greek philosophy [Shirley C. Guthrie, Jr., Christian Doctrine, p 92]."
zorin85 1 year ago
@nama: If Christ was part of the trinity, why did he worship his Father (Matt 26:39, Luke 6:12)? Isn't the Trinity supposed to be co-equal? Why is the son inferior to the Father? Did the Father worship the son? What does that tell you?
"There is NO evidence the Apostles of Jesus ever heard of a trinity [H. G. Wells, Outline of History, 1920 Edition, p 499]."
"The word trinity is NOT found in the Bible [The Illustrated Bible Dictionary]."
Historical evidence CONTRADICTS your false belief.
zorin85 1 year ago
@nama: My point in referring to the Jehovah's Witness is to prove that the Christian world was NEVER unanimous in claiming the alleged divinity of Christ. From its beginning, it was fragmented into many diverse sects & holding different interpretations on the nature & mission of Christ. Not every Christian denomination promoted the misguided belief that Christ is synonymous with Godhead. Even today, the Unitarians subscribe to alternative views. Read Lost Christianities by Dr. Bart Ehrman.
zorin85 1 year ago
@nama: It is u who r suffering from a troubled and deluded theology, my friend. Neither the Bible nor the early history of Christianity support your feeble arguments.
You should do some reading on this subject. Suggest 'How Jesus Became Christian' by Dr. Barrie Wilson, 'The Jesus Dynasty' by Dr. James Tabor and 'The Changing Faces of Jesus' by Dr. Geza Vermes.
Stop believing in the lies planted in you by your misguided church & their twisted interpretation of scripture. Blind faith is futile.
zorin85 1 year ago
@nama: How could Jesus be God when he openly confessed ignorance of the Hour (Mark 13:32)? Is God ignorant? How could Jesus be eternal when he doesn’t know the future? If Jesus is God why did he refer to the Father as “my God” (John 20:17)? Does God have a God? How many Gods are there? “I can of myself do nothing” (John 5:19, 30). Does God speak such words denoting impotence? Isn’t God Almighty?
It is not only Muslims who deny Jesus' alleged divinity but also Jews, Jeh Witnesses & Unitarians.
zorin85 1 year ago
@nama: Did Jesus ask his disciples to pray to a Trinity? NO! Instead he instructed them to direct their prayers to the Father ALONE (Matt 6:9, Luke 11:2) who is the ‘only true God’ (John 17:3).
And that was what his disciples did (Acts 4:24). They never prayed to a Trinity but to the Father alone who is also the God of Jesus (Ephesians 1:3). Nor did they ever baptize in the name of a Trinity. Where? When?
zorin85 1 year ago
@nama: The fact that Christ prayed to a higher being (Matt 26:39, Luke 6:12) is sufficient proof that he is NOT God as God doesn’t indulge in doing prayers.
Jesus is NOT the only son of God as God has sons by the tons (Gen 6:2, 4; Exodus 4:22 ; Jeremiah 31:9; Job 1:6, 2:1, 38:7).
And being son of God DOESN’T make Jesus part of the Godhead but merely as God’s righteous servant (Abdullah in Arabic) as attested in Mark 15:39 c.f. Luke 23:47 as well as Acts 3:13 , 26; 4:27 , 30.
zorin85 1 year ago
@nama: 'not cherry pick verses and mis contextualize them?' Tell that to your fellow Trinitarian Christians have been doing for ages to prop up their feeble and utterly misguided theology. You are not troubled by their sacrilege and blasphemy? Is it OK for you to lie in the name of God whom Christ worshiped (you deny that?)? Weird.
zorin85 1 year ago
excuse me but were'nt the original gospels (which no longer exist) ...written in Greek ? I was under the impression that the people of Jerusalem , at least the followers of Jesus, spoke Aramaic ...why do the religious people (unknowing as they are) place any value on these rediculous books which originated in another culture ..more importantly ...why are we human beings so willing to make up truths ...seemingly out of thin air ..James White, I'm sorry to say is just another christian idiot
laserwolf130 1 year ago
people who argue abot god just waste their time
750blood 1 year ago
jame white vs dr zakir nail CLASSIC
750blood 1 year ago
JAMES IS A LIAR WHO HAS MP3 QURAN ON HIS IPOD. LOL
WorldIslamicOrder 1 year ago
so their saying jesus was a demi god,
GENTALMANX 1 year ago
Did Jesus ask his disciples to pray to a Trinity? NO! Instead he instructed them to direct their prayers to the Father ALONE (Matt 6:9, Luke 11:2) who is the ‘only true God’ (John 17:3). And that was what his disciples did (Acts 4:24). They never prayed to a Trinity but to the Father alone who is also the God of Jesus (Ephesians 1:3). Nor did they ever baptize in the name of a Trinity. Where? When?
zorin85 1 year ago
If the Trinity is a theological fact and represents the truth from God, surely Jesus would have introduced it to his audience. He had ample opportunity. He would have said something like “Hear O Israel! The Father is God, the Son is God, the Holy Spirit is God, but they are not three Gods but one God”. Did he? NO! Instead he reasserted the absolute and indivisible unity of God who is One and Only (Mark 12:29 c.f. Deut 6:4). What does that tell you?
zorin85 1 year ago
If God is not the author of confusion, then why is there confusion in the Quran?
BGfromGB 1 year ago
weak response to williamdog!
Seb12131 1 year ago
We have the newest news and the evidence that Jesus is God from Stanley VILLAVINCENCIO city of Cebu in Philippines, he encountered Lord Jesus and nowadays he can hear his inner voice and Jesus appears in his dreams giving him messages about spreading of Jesus mercy to the mankind because Jesus is a merciful God but the time of mercy will not last forever and it will come a time when he comes back to judge everybody, and who doesn’t have atonement for his sins will faces his judgment.
austriaheute 1 year ago
We have the newest news and the evidence that Jesus is God from Stanley VILLAVINCENCIO city of Cebu in Philippines, he encountered Lord Jesus and nowadays he can hear his inner voice and Jesus appears in his dreams giving him messages about spreading of Jesus mercy to the mankind because Jesus is a merciful God but the time of mercy will not last forever and it will come a time when he comes back to judge everybody, and who doesn’t have atonement for his sins will faces his judgment.
austriaheute 1 year ago
Jesus did not hesitate to claim equality with God the Father. The Greek word for equal in John 5:18 is isos, as in an isosceles, or equal-sided, triangle. Jesus was and is “in very nature God,” and therefore was not blaspheming by claiming to be God. The disbelieving Jews had correctly heard Jesus to be making this claim to full deity, even though they rejected His claim. Is Jesus God? The apostle Paul clearly identified Jesus as "being in very nature God".
austriaheute 1 year ago
James slaughtered this guy... who is he anyways? I've seen him in a couple of debates but he sounds like a punk off the streets... hardly a scholar. James deserves someone who is more knowledgeable and who can pack more of a academic punch.
williamstdog9 1 year ago 5
@williamstdog9
Here is a Christian's blog writer's (known as 'Apologiaphoenix') appraisal of the debate:
"Honestly, I don't think James White did great on this and was disappointed by him. It seems he never answered the rational objections that were given but just said "The Bible teaches this." Yeah. That's what the Bible teaches, but if the Muslim already believed what the Bible teaches, we wouldn't have this problem?"
mujtahid2006 1 year ago 7
@mujtahid2006
Yeah but the discussion was is the Trinity polytheism. If the concept of the Trinity is taken from the Bible, then how else is he supposed to explain it. This is where we as Christians get our beliefs.
As a former Muslim, I think that you represented your side fairly well too.
God Bless You
PerspectiveReformed 1 year ago
@mujtahid2006 - You forgot this part:
Not to say that the Muslim did much better. I found him quite unconvincing, though it has been awhile since I last listened. Now as to what God would do, why do they think God wouldn't do this? Most answers I hear are pretty base involving a God who goes to the bathroom and such.
That's hardly an argument
Mike51020 1 year ago
@mujtahid2006 I am proud to see muslim scholar knowldge.. Thnx to Allah
mizanaa 1 year ago
@williamstdog9 sure u understood this debate?
mademan4life 1 year ago
@williamstdog9 How can abdullah turn from christianity to islam? when islam fails the first test of historical reliablity, that being Islams belief that jesus didnt die on the cross even in the face of several non biblical sources from antiquity that all attest to jesus bieng crucified.
gunner23 1 year ago
@williamstdog9 blah blah blah abdullah ,to much learning has sent him into a state of mental confusion,he needs a dose of the Holy Ghost. Go James
jesusgypsy1 1 year ago
@williamstdog9 blah blah blah abdullah ,to much learning has sent him into a state of mental confusion,he needs a dose of the Holy Ghost. Go James
jesusgypsy1 1 year ago
@GamerFTW21 but how come he never went to convert the Gentiles EVER. He rather ignored them, as we see in the New Testament.
MatrixOfDynamism 1 year ago
@GamerFTW21 How come he never went to the Gentiles himself EVER? and also why do the scholars say that these verses that you are mentioning here are Not in the MOST ancient manuscripts?
MatrixOfDynamism 1 year ago
@GamerFTW21 In His Image means that he looks like us? means he has the private parts too? God does not to eat food or breath e.t.c does he? No
God is Perfect and has no shape or Form. He cannot be bounded in anyway. His self is beyound imagination.
MatrixOfDynamism 1 year ago
@GamerFTW21 The word Elohim comes in the Old Testament. So we go to the Jew and ask him, he says its the Plural of "Respect" not a real plural. Strictly speaking Elohim must be translated as GodS which is NOT a TriUne God and I repeat NOT TriUne but more than One. Strangly enough the word Elohim is translated as God and not Gods by the people publishing new versions of the Bible. Since its God's word it does not need revision does it?
MatrixOfDynamism 1 year ago
@GamerFTW21 yes im posting videos that will give you the refrences noobie ..idont have the time to explain in 20 comments :) ..anyways enjoy ur life ..peace
b2bb55 1 year ago
@GamerFTW21 yes i will show you enjoy !! /watch?v=ciGXtLgvqxA ..i have nothing else to say ..weather u wanna accept it or not thats up to you !! your salvation not mine :)
b2bb55 1 year ago
@GamerFTW21 your new testament was written in greek (copied from the ancient roman's belief with names changing lol ) and jesus (pbuh) never spoke a word in greek when he was walking on this earth ..anyone that has a brain can use it and help himself !!!
b2bb55 1 year ago
@GamerFTW21 i read the bible and i know what im talking about ..did you read it yourself ? i bet not ..go read you old testament then come talk to me about it ..i didnt say that god mentioned himself in plural ..thats like saying WE ..so dont say somthing i didnt mention ..what i said is that there in greek are 2 DIFFERANT NAMES in the same passage reffeing to God ...this isnt talking in plural this is a slight twist of the pen to fool the noobs like yourself !!
b2bb55 1 year ago
@GamerFTW21 you're the ignorant one ..god created you and created everything ..hes the absulate allmighty and nothing is like him ..what crap are you spitting that god looks like us ..your bible is corrupt weather you like it or not ..truth hurts !!
b2bb55 1 year ago
@GamerFTW21 WHY DIDNT THEY MENTION JESUS AS GOD? Abraham , Mouses and Jesus and Mohammed all said worship the 1 and only true god ..MY GOD and YOUR GOD .. ..Mouses even TALKED to god and he didnt say anything about the trinity LOL ..this is people's addition to it cuz this is what you want A FREE ticket to heaven LOL(jesus dying for your sins and ur already saved {paul's copying mithraism}) ..you can fool your selfs all you want but all of us will die one day ..and trust me you will regret it !
b2bb55 1 year ago
@GamerFTW21 ok be honest with your self ..did you even convince yourself with this answer ? LOL ..if god decided to come all the way here then didnt say IM GOD or WORSHIP ME ? then appeared to a guy that wanted to kill him at the begining in a dream ? LOL this is just what you like to think or trying deperatly to prove !! ..anyone that uses his brain would think why didnt ALL the previous prophets mention jesus or anything about the trinity ?? they said worship the ONE TRUE GOD
b2bb55 1 year ago
@GamerFTW21 in the end JESUS WAS NEVER SENT FOR YOU NOOBS LOL ..he was sent the lost sheep of isreal ..the jews but paul told you he came for you lmao ..you christians are jew wannabes LOL
b2bb55 1 year ago
@GamerFTW21 so no need to be a smart ass ..go answer me the rest of mr.ahmed deedat's arguments other than this point :) ..or go watch any debate (shabir ally , dr.zakir naik , sami zatari , adnan rashid , dr.jalal ) all of them owns ur scholars ..they answer logically and on point not like you guys dance around the answer then invent an interpretation in the scriptures lol ..are u kiddin me ? christianity get owned even against judaism in any debate LOL ..go watch a 3 way debate and enjoy LMAO
b2bb55 1 year ago
@GamerFTW21 2ndly no need to mention the date ..simply cuz the new testament contradicts every single teaching of jesus (pbuh) when he was walking this earth ..i showed you in the video i posted with quotes from your own bible (i bet u didnt even watch it LOL ..so go watch it and see how paul copied ancient mithraism for you and enjoy !! ..and if you were a catholic you will be shocked on how similar they are LOL ...u just keep believing in your preachers that gets paid without using ur head :)
b2bb55 1 year ago
@GamerFTW21 loool oh man this guy dr,white is a joke ..he desperatly tries to prove his point ..deedat is a human no matter what ..so what about the rest of his arguments ? or u dont like this part ? :) ...in jhon 1:1 THERE ARE 2 WORDS for god in greek ..so its not talking about the same god no matter how you try to suger cout it :) ..this guy white go watch his debates ..always tries to dance around his answers then gives you HIS OWN thinking of it and his own creation and you believe him \LOL
b2bb55 1 year ago
Your scholars claim the Bible has been changed i.e.: in 300-400CE in Spain in a Latin manuscript, 1 John 5:7 was put in as a footnote. It wasn't until 1516 that Christian theologians persuaded Erasmus to place 1 John 5:7 into next Greek edition of Bible, by translating Latin to Greek & sticking it in, which the KJV & NKJV is based on.
The significant part of 1 John 5:7 doesn't exist in the earliest manuscripts, and was added in Greek Bible in 16CE, which scholars have known for years.
itcrowdfan92 1 year ago
@itcrowdfan92 sounds bit like a jigsaw puzzle.
ZagiEscobar 1 year ago
@GamerFTW21 lol ok forget ahmed deedat you dont like him cuz he was owning you from your own bible ..what about the other video i posted ?? ..anyway its up to you ..your salvation not mine ..enjoy your Mithraism religion ..oh! i mean christianity religion lool ..peace noobie !!
b2bb55 1 year ago
lol ok forget ahmed deedat you dont like him cuz he was owning you from your own bible ..what about the other video i posted ?? ..anyway its up to you ..your salvation not mine ..enjoy your Mithraism religion ..oh! i mean christianity religion lool ..peace noobie !!
b2bb55 1 year ago
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b2bb55 1 year ago
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b2bb55 1 year ago
@GamerFTW21 oh heres the video that will show you how Paul copied ancient pagan religions for you he just changed the names LOL /watch?v=CXfoH4CHETI (ENJOY) and keep blindly following your preachers !!
b2bb55 1 year ago
@GamerFTW21 now i wanna ask you somthing ..do you know the stories of Buddah , kushina , Horus and Mithrus ? they were ancient Pagan gods ...wanna know their stories ? its about a god who sent his own son to die by crucifixion for the sin of mankind ..then resurrected in the 3rd day ..THIS IS ANCIENT MITHRAISM ..does it sound familiar to you ?? YES they paul changed the name for you to jesus christ LOL ..i can show you with proof ..now go watch the debates by ahmed deedat if u have the guts :)
b2bb55 1 year ago
@GamerFTW21 look you seem to have read the comments ..i can show you many verses where paul changed your religion :) ..if you wanna know how your bible was corrupted go watch (mr.ahmed deedat) debates all of them he owned in every single christian scholar :) will show you from your own bible how it was done here on you tube ..i dont wanna list you 20 comments to explain ..
b2bb55 1 year ago
this muslim chooses not to grasp what has been beautifully explained by Mr white. Either he is dumb or had an agenda
rocha333 1 year ago
2 ignoramuses talking iron-age non-sense.
formerutuber 1 year ago
I will have to thank Mr. White for this debate, having watched him explain the christain view on the trinity, i am even stronger in my convictions as a Muslim. Please we need more trinity debates...wheres Jay Smith when one needs him lol?
NATURALboredKILLER 1 year ago
Feel sorry for White having to argue with a mental retard dilatant who knows little about his own original religion and then accepts going from the frying pan into the fire (islam). You contradicted yourself many times, and when White told you what he believes, you kept going back to your own errant representation of what he said. Truly a monumental waste of time and laughable but that is what islam attracts..errant fools. Ghengis khansays he is messanger of god and I will say sure! Right! S
StyngRay1 1 year ago
@StyngRay1 - TELL US ABOUT CHRISTIANITY STYNG WHAT DO YOU BELIEVE?
utubevideniskey 1 year ago
2).......(such as worldly benefit, status, and renown), they declare: "This is from God." So woe to them for what their hands have written, and woe to them for what they have earned (of the worldly income and the sin thereby)....Qur'an 2 -79
utubevideniskey 1 year ago
1) Woe, then, to those who write the Book with their hands (interpolating into it their readings of the Scriptures and their explanatory notes thereto, stories from their national history, superstitious ideas and fancies, philosophical doctrines and legal rules) and then, in order to sell it for a trifling price
utubevideniskey 1 year ago
And say: Truth hath come and falsehood hath vanished.
Lo! Falsehood is ever bound to vanish. Qur'an (17:81)
utubevideniskey 1 year ago
O men! There has come to you indeed an admonition from your Lord and a healing for what is in the breasts and a guidance and a mercy for the believers. Qur'an (10:57)
utubevideniskey 1 year ago
Such is God's guidence: He guides therewith whomever he will of his servants. And had they ascribed divinity to aught beside him. In vain indeed would have been all [the good] that they ever did. Qur'an (6.88)
utubevideniskey 1 year ago
All men have need of the Gods. Homer
The omnipotent Gods can not conflict, because conflict is a property of finite beings.
MCrahart 1 year ago
Abdullah looked pretty weak in debate and kept repeating his arguments even though they had been dealt with. He kinda looked nervous in the latter part of the debate.
Debmey 1 year ago
Abdullah you hung in there but got smoked at the end. No suprise
MrAngates 1 year ago
@MrAngates Really?? Why didn't Jesus say "I AM GOD WORSHIP ME".That would clear everything up.Why would a doctrine directly linked to the salvation of the Christian not be 100% clear? Dr White spent alot of time repeating what others have said and written about Jesus thumbing through the bible trying to find phrases and innuendo to validate the trinity.All prophets came to teach us that god is one including Jesus.There is nothing that god could not see or hear that he needed to become a man
Abdullah1475 1 year ago
@MrAngates -- IN THE BIBLE - (Jesus Pbuh said)"None of those who call me `Lord' will enter the kingdom of God,but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven."
Matthew 7:21
DO YOU AS A CHRTISTIAN CLAIM JESUS (pbuh) IS YOUR LORD?...IF SO YOU WONT ENTER THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN - ACCORDING TO JESUS (pbuh)
utubevideniskey 1 year ago
@utubevideniskey Is that the best you can do to make your point! You twist and prevert
a verse you cant defend.You alt to be ashamed of yourself. Please read further
and you will see what the Lord jesus was saying. .
MrAngates 1 year ago
@MrAngates I MADE MY POINT AND OBVIOUSLY IT DEFEATED YOURS BECAUSE YOU DONT HAVE ONE...YOU ALT TO BE ASHAMED OF YOURSELF FOR CALLING JESUS LORD GOING AGAINST HIS OWN WILL WHO SAID DO NOT CALL ME LORD ___FOR HEAVEN WILL BE REFUSED FOR HIM WHO CALLS ME LORD___
utubevideniskey 1 year ago
@utubevideniskey In the frist place the text reads.'Not everyone who says to me Lord,Lord
will enter into the kingdom". So there you clearly distorted the text. Now then go to
the next chapter. The centurion comes to him and says Lord. Jesus does not rebuke him he heals his servant after that. Surely Jesus would have rebuke this
non Jew, Not of the houseof Isreal,but he does not!
MrAngates 1 year ago
@MrAngates - So you follow others more then Jesus? (pbuh) lets read the full verse.."Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?' And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'"
utubevideniskey 1 year ago
2) YOU ARE RIGHT IN THE FIRST PART-BUT THEN NOTE THAT JESUS (PBUH) SAYS ONLY THOSE WHO DO THE WILL OF MY FARTHER( meaning to follow the commandments) as he said earlier "Think not that I (Jesus) am come to destroy the LAW, or the PROPHETS: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled, (THATS Fulfillment of Law of Moses )
mathew 5 17-19
utubevideniskey 1 year ago
3 ) Then NOTE HE SAYS - MANY WILL SAY LORD LORD HAVE WE NOT PROPHECISED IN YOUR NAME, CAST OUT DEMONS IN YOUR NAME AND DONE MANY WONDERS IN YOUR NAME?...SO THE QUESTION IS EVEN AFTER DOING ALL THESE GREAT THINGS JESUS (PBUH) WILL STILL SAY "I NEVER KNEW YOU". WHY DOES HE SAY DEPART FROM ME AND CALL THOSE WHO WILL BE DOING THESE GREAT THINGS THOSE WHO PRACTISE LAWLESSNESS?
utubevideniskey 1 year ago
@utubevideniskey This means that many people will think they are Christian by calling him Lord, and doing all these great things, etc....but the Father gave no right for them to do these things.....practicing lawlessness, because you were not given the power from the Father to do these things.
So without knowing Jesus and developing a personal relationship him, you cannot do the will of the Father. You have to be one of his chosen. Many in the church act like Christians but are not.
QuiteNot 1 year ago
You have to know Jesus. Not just do the acts of a Christian, a Christian is one who is a Christian on the inside.
Notice it is Jesus who we will face on judgment day, he is the way, the truth and the life no one comes to the Father except through him. No other prophet was life, only by knowing God and working personally with him can we have eternal life.
QuiteNot 1 year ago