continue....some will probebly say that it's selfish to think of your own karma and rob the beggar from fulfilling his but as I see it,the beggar could also raise his karma by giving you the opportunity to work on yours.
I see some simularities with my Dutch grandmother.She has been a member of the theosophical society for years,left it but kept on believing in Karma. What I learned is that there are many different theories and that's it.....no one knows the Truth. What he says is interesting and I know at least a few people who agree completely but why do we have the ability of reasoning and animals not? That's also the reason why we can destroy so much. Karma in India:it's good for your karma to help a beggar!
mosquitos are evil and we have a choice to do good... mosquitos have no choice to do good... what an idiot.. embodiment of satan... karma doesn't exist... you will only be reincarnated into the hell
This man is pure evil and a coward. Islam is the only truth. any idiot can deny everything. He is a taker and doesn't give you anything except sin. This is for dropouts of the spiritual paths that were just too difficult to follow... accept Islam.. it will make you whole... but you are not looking that. You don't care about goodness or wholeness or humanity.. only answering your carnal desires... seems like he is a follower of Anton LeVey ... He pulled the wool over your eyes..church of satan
Some people are not ready to accept this because they want mild explanations, this is it whatever it is. I don't want to repeat it. You hear it and you feel it!
"The appreciation of music...is all culturally determined and is the product of thought. It is acquired taste that tells you that Beethoven's Ninth Symphony is more beautiful than a chorus of cats screaming; both produce equally valid sensations." -UG Krishnamurti
And that quote is the reason I don't like this guy. He's just insecure that Western music is completely superior to Eastern.
Check out my channel guys. My way of explaining might be totally inline with how you understand. And you might get something out of it.. or NOT which is the Actual goal :)
... only one thing has to be remembered: when you are fragile in your growth, people like U.G. Krishnamurti can destroy you. These people have missed their life, and now they are living in frustration. And in frustration people start behaving like women. They start breaking things, throwing things. That's what U.G. Krishnamurti is doing.
he arrives at his conclusions through evidence presented to him. How does that make him a `follower`? You are capable of reinventing a perspective. It just so happens that his perspective is the MOST objective one, if you think about it.
Actually his whole line is merely a twist on the "material vs. spiritual" debate.
UG takes a purely material stand...as do numerous scientists, physicists, atheists etc.
What on earth is so new about this?
Even at the end of the interview what UG says is a massive cop out.
When told that indian sages have been going "Tat tsvam asi" (thou art that) - he says that that is just a line, They actually haven't internalised it.
@alllman2000 If his ego gets the best of him, that does not mean we can categorically brush aside his talks as nonsense. You are either calling him unoriginal or nonsensical. His appearance might have something to do with that. If you are looking for "new", you'll shop for a long time :) it's like genetics... many many many mutations have to happen before a useful mutation takes place. is that one success original? I think not.
Materialism has been a part of indian thought for ages...carvaka etc...I dont think UG is saying a single new thing. Merely a mix and match of this and that...similar to what Osho used to do.
Just the other day I was reading a lecture of U. G. Krishnamurti. He says he went to see Ramana Maharshi. He was not attracted - because he was chopping vegetables. Yes, Ramana Maharshi was that kind of man, very ordinary. Chopping vegetables! U. G. Krishnamurti must have gone to see somebody extraordinary sitting on a golden throne or something. Ramana Maharshi just sitting on the floor and chopping vegetables? preparing vegetables for the kitchen! He was very much frustrated.--Osho
@communeosho i guess he expected him stop chopping vegetables and order a pizza; hahhahaha; anyhow if ramana was italian he would be doing what italians do ie make cheese in their kitchens
Just the other day I mentioned U.G. Krishnamurti. When he saw Ramana Maharshi reading joke books and looking at cartoons, he was very much frustrated. Not only that: a man asked a question about God and U.G. Krishnamurti was present there - very seriously, bowing at his feet, a man asked about God. And what did Sri Ramana do? do you know? He gave him a joke book and said, "Read it!"--Osho
I am though Impressed to find that I was thinking what he's saying all this time, and that is that "we believe everything around us has been created for us to use it" and that is the rationale for our misery
this vid shud be used as an anti drugs message to all school children; as a very good example of why you should stay away from crack cocaine. gets u insane in the membrane.
In my darkest despairing moments I view life in UG's way. Luckily I have previously touched a pleasure BEYOND the five-sense-world before, in meditation, and the recollection of this happiness gets me through those dark moments. My level of understanding is still in it's infancy, but I can state that awareness and mind are two separate things. The experience of this was a joy OTHER than the sensual. It was a glimpse for me of higher wisdom, to which I offer reverence. We are NOT just automatons!
Well, I choose not to accept UG's bleak view of humanity and existence. To me it sounds very much like gross materialism poured into a spiritual bottle. Not something I wish to drink.
U.G Krishnamurti was in a deep sleep, as far away from his liberation of suffering as can be. He has much borrowed knowledge which has has manipulated intellectually into his own interpretation of existence, but no transformation has occurred. And that is the quality of every master, the very presence of the man emanates a certain fragrance. Without saying anything, it is a finger pointing towards the inexpressible.
U.G was not awakened, but he has said a few significant things here and there.
Certainly your mind will see whatsoever it wants to see. But unless you yourself have come to an awakening, even if you happen to be in the presence of a Buddha - it will be impossible for you to recognize him.
Then start sensing the joke. On the mark, or off the mark, it is really irrelevant. Either one is functioning out of one's own intelligence, then one will be capable of an eye of clear seeing. If one is not functioning out of one's own intelligence, then with enough desire to believe, one can believe just about anything at all, regardless of who is saying it. U.G Krishnamurti is simply speaking in the shadow of J.Krishnamurti. And in fact, he had hated that shadow his whole life.
One more comment on U.G. . To me, he is not an enigma or anything else! He is only a human being, a primate! Humans make other humans gurus, saints etc. By saying he is an enigma, a phenomenon you have already made him a guru. He had his own beliefs and problems in life. God/s, spirituality, thinking of having an ego, human relationships, fear, happiness are also part of our behaviour, way of living. He lacks knowledge of ... (many things).
He says we don't need to be free from anything, but what about thoughts? I want to be free from thoughts. He says that thoughts are violent and fascist. I agree. He says he has no thoughts. If I am free from thoughts, I am free from fear. It is thoughts that produce fear.
Very hard to except we are only an effect of an energy that expresses in many forms across an infinite progression without a center or edge. Any value we assign or do not assign to this fact is simple our own reflection that we maintain inside the focus where our so called individual energy manifests. An agreed upon illusion, a ghost, but a very persistent one as Einstein says. The only constant is not only change also infinite stillness without assignable attributes permeating everywhere.
I do not agree with him. He used to say e.g.: "What we do not want is the fear to come to an end." Fear is natural, it has had preventive functions throughout evolution. As I see it, it has nothing to do with what he has told.
@szmako *You love fear. The ending of fear is death, and you don't want that to happen. I am not talking of wiping out the phobias of the body. They are necessary for survival. The death of fear is the only death." - UG Krishnamurti
@Menarson The end of fear is the end of thoughts. The end of thoughts would make me a new person, a person like UG. Fear is insecurity produced by thoughts.
@Menarson You imagine that thoughts have place because you cannot imagine yourself without them. UG was living proof you don't need thoughts. Stephen Jourdain (now deceased) also claimed to not have thoughts. What happened to UG is very similar to what happened to Stephen Jourdain. His book is called "Radical Awakening". Look it up at amazon. We'd have a revolution around the world tomorrow if everyone's thoughts disappeared because nobody would be afraid of idiots who run the world.
@No3Patriot UGs thoughts didnt stop. They only "came into a rythm". Thats what he said. I respect Ugs absolute concept but I wouldnt dismiss all relativity because of it.
@Menarson Here the question posed to UG ( I found it at inner-questDOTorg/ugDOThtm):
Question: Now, do you have thoughts or concepts?
U.G.: No.
[snip] Question: So when you don't have those projects in mind for practical planning, you have nothing in your head?
U.G.: No, nothing. My way of functioning is that I am always occupied with what is happening at that moment and there is no room for any preoccupation.
@No3Patriot Well that seems like a step backwards in evolution. I'm happy that I'm able to contemplate multiple things and human thought has brought about many great technologies, even if we use them for the wrong purposes. Of course we could all stop thinking and live in caves again but I don't think that that's the best thing for humanity.
@Menarson I don't think you have a fully informed opinion about it. Thoughts aren't going to go away anytime soon anyway, so there's really no point in discussing it, especially with someone like yourself who has already proven [to me] to be prejudice. I want to discuss the possibilities, and you don't. End of story. G' day.
@szmako Thoughts create fear. How is fear produced without thoughts? It can't be. If he did in fact say that we do not want fear to come to an end, then what he means is that we don't want thoughts to come to an end. That may be true for some, but not for me.
@No3Patriot Thoughts create fear. How is fear produced without thoughts? I agree. But it is not you who creates thoughts, it is your brain. If you were attacked by a lion/tiger etc., wouldn't you have fear?!
@szmako Thoughts can't disappear by themselves. A person can quiet their thoughts like that of a Zen monk, but they won't entirely disappear. I don't want to control my thoughts because I already know I can't control my thoughts due to knowledge that is stored in my brain or mind, or whatever you want to call it. Knowledge causes thoughts. UG talks about that in his books. You should get a few and read them.
@szmako There is a book called "No Way Out: Conversations with U. G. Krishnamurti". It's a google book. Do a search in google for it. Not all of the pages are there but what is there is really good.
I scanned through fast his work of "No Way Out". I agree with some of his statements. I think culture is also part of one of our closest "realtives", the chimpanzees. It is natural to have culture and for humans to have a purpose in life. In this view, it can be said that U.G. had the purpose of not having a purpose. As far as our senses can reveal reality, evolution is a fact. Because there is no ego, I can't create thoughts. They are created by the brain.
@szmako Chapter 4 of this book talks about purpose. He states, "It is up to you to find out. I can say that there is no purpose, and if there is any purpose,
we have no way of knowing it. We only repeat what we have been told. We are made to believe that there is a purpose, and that belief is what is responsible for the tragedy of mankind today. ... So I really don't know if there is any purpose. I don't think that there is any. I do not see any meaning or purpose in life."
@szmako Thoughts are created when there is someone there (a You) to create them. "You" do all the thinking and thought producing. When you are not there, there are no thoughts, and there are no things or others. That's the message I got from his books, not just this one. Good luck to you.
Thanks! But I cannot agree with him on the 'You". There is no You!Me. It is only an illusion having a center/ego in us who is in charge of. Our Brain creates the sensation of "me" as an ego. Sorry, Mate but he lacks some knowledge of neurology. How the brain functions. To me, he is making a mistake when he separates the body from the "I", the brain. It cannot be separated, it is the way we function. Remember, you would have fear, if you were attacked by a predator!
@szmako You are confused. I just said exactly what you just said about the "you" yet you say you don't agree. What exactly don't you agree with? There is a "you," but it is, as you say, only an illusion/ego. "You" create the illusion center/ego. When "you" disappear, where is the illusion ? Where is the center/ego if "you" are not there? Most of our fears come from what we have learned from others. It is learned therefore most fears are "in our head" or imagination--i.e., not real.
So there is "No Way Out"! XD Our brains are conditioned. Fear as well as happiness are also part of our way of living/experiencing. Maybe I am getting confused! Maybe that human animal is a species that is looking for purpose in life!?
@No3Patriot I like this way of interpreting F.E.A.R.! But we do not have ego! How can you achieve(is it an illusion to achieve) being freed from thoughts/words? or that is the way we are?
@szmako There ARE people who have no fear when attacked by a predator like you say. You're putting yourself in everyone elses shoes. If you showed no fear to a predator i.e a cobra, you would much less likely be attacked.
You can have fear when attacked by ... (anything you want), and at the same time being brave. To have fear, happiness is natural! To my way of thinking, there is no body and you separated, it is all one. It is a never ending story to agree or disagree about who's wrong or right. Have a nice day!
@szmako Who is attacking... and is there any separation between the attacker and that being attacked - you're talking "about" oneness and not coming from it, do you see?
As I saw it, for you, U.g.'s interpretation of reality or human behaviour is similar to your way of thinking or his views can help you shake off the burdens of this society we live in!?? No hard feelings, Mate! Is there anything to disagree or agree about? To the best of my knowledge, the left part of our brain is responsible for rationality and the illusion of "I", self-experience can be found. So it is "implanted" in our brain. There are techniques that can dissolve the "I" sensation.
when you look at the world, everything is registered as something. a book, a cup television., that is the knowledge. the object in memory then creates the illusion of subject.
@nasafakedit@normduval1 UG makes it clear that the 'calamity' happened without his volition and DESPITE his religious background including anything related to J. Krishnamurti.
@nasafakedit But since the age of 35 he was already suffering many physical changes - headaches, the way he began to look younger from such age till his 49th and some powers etc. That JK talk refreshed his memory and made him conclude that he was not only already functioning in the state JK was talking about but it was all about physical and not transcendental as well. He realised that he had been a fool all his life, searching for something which doesn't exist, then the 'calamity' happened.
most people think when they open there eyes and look around that what there seeing is outside..it seem's doesn't it that "you" are behind your eyes...chop a arm off,you might live..take away the empty space in front of you,you die..what can't be more you than everything you see..its inside me i'm inside it..interconnected,no separation..
Wise man, but I feel that his words are not completely free (of resistance). Nonetheless, thoughts and knowledge are not bad. It is when thought evokes emotion that it becomes compulsive, that is the basis of ego. Conditioning is all about associating emotion (esp. fear) to thoughts.
I wonder every time I see this man . why is he talking at all if he has nothing to say. he creates more confusion than anything else. Maybe thats good but would be interesting to know how
It would be rude not to answer questions asked by well-intentioned people. I'm glad that he tells the truth about the ridiculousness of conceptual partiality and its conceptual attempts to become whole.
All that U.G says is wise. Rather than worry about 'life', 'death', 'reincarnation' and other concepts rather ground yourself in the faithful understanding that 'you' will always be 'aware' of a moment. Indeed we ARE time itself-the eternal flowing moment. No stagnancy here!!
If you've read all of UG's books you would nothing good or bad to say about him. He's an Enigma, a phenomenon and can't be classified as anything. I don't know what to say about him. I really don't
@alllman2000 JK never really negated anything at all, he simply said "truth is a pathless land" while still retaining the foundational concept of truth (i.e. spirituality, enlightenment, etc).
"The question itself must disappear" isn't reductionism, it's negation. Reductionism reduces a proposition to something else, more basic. Negation negates the proposition, by falsifying the premise. Of course negation itself isn't anything new, but there's more to what UG is saying than negation.
Actually "pathless land" is in effect saying that all "paths" must be rejected.
Re. Truth ,enlightment etc (whether it exists) or UGs "version" ( it is just a biochem thing etc) are both versions of the same process- negation. UG says you can't reach his "state" except somewhat accidentally.
But, UG actually went almost the whole hog on the "spiritual path" from Yoga in the Himalayas or somewhere , as a JK "disciple" etc...till the "question itself disappeared"
@alllman2000 Yes, if we take 'path' to mean a pre-existing route or method. But JK, unlike UG, never negated the end goal of the path (i.e.enlightenment). One could argue that JK may have even inadvertently created a path via 'choiceless awareness.' or his own version of 'meditation or 'watching thought, etc. For UG, there was no point or need for these things, as there was nothing to realize or gain from them.
@alllman2000 I see what you mean. Yes, that is a form of reductionism. In cognitive science there is a school called eliminative materialism i.e. eliminating the 'mental' by explaining phenomena in terms of physiological processes. I was just using negation in the sense that, say, an atheist would negate the very idea of God, and not reduce God to talk of physical properties. I think UG is similarily negating the very idea of the 'spiritual', and not reducing it to mere physiology.
So, for all of some of UGs childish "negation" of JK ( he has only "seen the sugar cube" not eaten it - or whatever) - It may actually perhaps be the other way around
It may be that UG "stopped" at the elementary level- and that there is indeed another final "energy" level
Who knows?
But, that is the "final" conclusion of the same "process"- negating "conditioning" in whatever form etc.
@alllman2000 Or it may be that whatever happened to UG had nothing to do with levels of energy or sprituality at all, as UG himself insists. I've actually asked Narayana Moorty about this, whether UG just had some kind of neurological disorder and was not any kind of sage or mystic. Moorty told me he's wondered the same thing.
I guess we'll never know. But I've never read or heard anyone else talk about spirituality, religion and mysticism quite the way UG did.
Well UG did put things a bit differently. But then that is perhaps the only reason anyone bothered to listen to him
JK too was "revolutionary" in his outlook when he came along- chucking everything aside.
Just continues the unparalled and unending wonderful Indian tradition of independent "search" and thinking (unlike the more "brainwashed" type of "religions" we encounter so much nowadays)
Another thing we seem to forget- UGs 'awakening' or 'accident' or 'event' or whatever (however he wishes to describe it) - is actually classic awakening of the Kundalini.
It has been document in detail for thousands of years.
So, it seems a litte far fetched to assume that noone has ever experienced something similar.
@alllman2000 Yes, but UG always insisted this had no spiritual content at all. It was a purely physical phenomena produced as a by-product of the body falling into its own natural rhythm. Please name me another mystic who said the same thing.
Then perhaps the mistake we are making is by labelling UG a "mystic".
The innumerable people in India who have awakened Kundalini by various time honoured techniques ( normally at the end stage like UG, after a gestation of "spiritual practice") or otherwise "spontaneously" have ALL stated that several bodily changes occured.
All standard documentation of Kundalini is identical to what UG describes as happening to him.
@alllman2000 Yes, even UG admits that the swellings he experienced happened to correspond exactly to the areas where Kundalini manifests. Most, if not all, other mystics have described similar symptoms and bodily sensations. JK had swellings at the nape of his neck. What makes UG unique is his interpretation of these physical manifestations. He imputes no spiritual, psychic, supernatural, holy, religious or otherworldly significance to them. To UG, those are all merely cultural constructions.
@alllman2000 Whatever we know about the 'natural state' is through UG's interpretation. He may be wrong about it not having anything to do with spirituality. He may be right. All we have are his words. We in turn interpret his words. We can't apply what UG says to animals, since we can't know for certain what UG's state is without being in that 'state' ourselves, nor do we have access to animal consciousness to compare with UG's state.
@alllman2000 Actually it's civilized people who are the real barbarians, as any quick glance at history reveals. UG claimed personal proclivities have nothing to do with the natural state. "Why I sometimes go to the limit of saying it is possible for a rapist, for a murderer, for a thief, for a convict, for a con man, -- this kind of thing happen!"
As I've mentioned, JK didn't negate the 'truth' (i.e. spirituality, love, the other etc.), he only negated all the traditional paths to it.
Oh,no doubt that "civlised" people are the "real" barbarians in that they are "more" barabaric.
Or for that matter that a thief,murderer etc can experience "that"- Numerous ppl have stated that.
But that is not the point:
The point is that in the "natural" state UG would be "Totally "unconditioned"" and do things like for eg. scratch his privates in public, indulge in public sex,and do all sorts of "animal- natural" things.
But CLEARLY there is a VERY human ingredient maintained
@alllman2000 Ok, I see what you were saying now. Still, UG often said one can never free oneself from conditioning. As long as there is a mind or consciousness, it is bound to be conditioned. The conditioning helps the body to survive in the social and physical world. The natural state isn't an unconditioned state, it is one in which conditioning doesn't interfere with the functioning of the organism.
So- as UG says somewhere - he came back to life from the brink (or something to that effect) then it is entirely possible that it is he who has "seen the sugar cube but not tasted it"
Perhaps he had some more "levels" to go- but stopped at the bodliy level- hence his stringent claims.
Infact- there have for long been "warnings" to the effect to Not "let" the physical transformations "get in the way" to enable the full expression of Kundalini
@alllman2000 The assumptions here are 'sugar' and 'levels' viz enlightenment. UG was careful to avoid making any logical leap from physiological processes to something spiritual or holy.
If you have some free time on your hands you may want to take a look at the ancient and rich hindu philosophy . UG experienced an awakening of the "kundalini". This is exactly as has been documented in india for thousands of years.
Sure it may all be new for many ppl "around the globe". what surprises me is that indians are in anyway surprised by a "mystic" who goes around using "neti neti" for just about everything.
@alllman2000 Yep, it would be a nice trip to someday explore the hindu-knowledge. The awakening (kundalini?) UG was into lasted for some days, changing about one sense per day, according to his own words. Yeah, I find it also a bit strange that the Indian audience feeds the conversation. And also, "neti neti" could be as a scale in music - very much to do with it. Many melodies/barks can come out of one scale. Just because this method is recalled as "neti neti" it hasnt been fully experienced
Well ,if for thousands of years persons Have been experiencing the awakening of the "kundalini" , creating "structured" procedures for it, clearly documenting it etc...it is difficult to assume that noone has ever "fully experienced" it.
How do we know UG has? He "stops" at the "material" level - "there is nothing except the body etc etc"...
How do we know that there is no further "pure energy" level (or whatever)
Actually the "mystics" are more in line with the new age physicists
@alllman2000 ug is not saying that there is no such thing as pure energy u go thru the book biology of enlightenment where ug's old talks frm 1967 to 71 is recorded. what he is saying that that energy cannot be perceived with the help of mind because mind is matter that energy cannot be given expression................even ashtavakra samhita spks the same. secondly what u and i knw is what we hve been told so we hve to find out if there is energy or no such thing
Again- the surprising part is that anyone in India is surprised by UG (sure he may shock certain ppl in other countries)
In India all this is actually Old Hat...UG maybe a little more or less vulgar and hard hitting ...or he may a little twist here and there...but then if he parroted the same thing as say his "guru" JK noone would be bothered...And so it goes...on and on...
@alllman2000 But 'neti, neti' presupposes that there's 'That' which one can realize after excluding everything that mind can grasp, and UG goes further dismissing even 'That' as merely another trick of thought. It's thought telling itself that 'That' is 'something' (disguised as a 'no-thing') beyond itself whilst in fact it's just another idea of itself.
Same shit , different asshole.
alllman2000 1 week ago
@alllman2000 u spot it u got it son
cupshalfphil 1 week ago
continue....some will probebly say that it's selfish to think of your own karma and rob the beggar from fulfilling his but as I see it,the beggar could also raise his karma by giving you the opportunity to work on yours.
marcelia3 1 month ago
I see some simularities with my Dutch grandmother.She has been a member of the theosophical society for years,left it but kept on believing in Karma. What I learned is that there are many different theories and that's it.....no one knows the Truth. What he says is interesting and I know at least a few people who agree completely but why do we have the ability of reasoning and animals not? That's also the reason why we can destroy so much. Karma in India:it's good for your karma to help a beggar!
marcelia3 1 month ago
Let's finish this madness of yours!! FUCK ALLAH and your beliefs, I don't wanna get your message alerts again...
mojopum 1 month ago
He is miserable... a total disgrace...
mattahaisha 1 month ago
mosquitos are evil and we have a choice to do good... mosquitos have no choice to do good... what an idiot.. embodiment of satan... karma doesn't exist... you will only be reincarnated into the hell
mattahaisha 1 month ago
This man is pure evil and a coward. Islam is the only truth. any idiot can deny everything. He is a taker and doesn't give you anything except sin. This is for dropouts of the spiritual paths that were just too difficult to follow... accept Islam.. it will make you whole... but you are not looking that. You don't care about goodness or wholeness or humanity.. only answering your carnal desires... seems like he is a follower of Anton LeVey ... He pulled the wool over your eyes..church of satan
mattahaisha 1 month ago
the interviewer from time to time smells shit
brachisaurous 1 month ago
Some people are not ready to accept this because they want mild explanations, this is it whatever it is. I don't want to repeat it. You hear it and you feel it!
mojopum 2 months ago
UG found the glitch in the Matrix and logged out.
richerite 2 months ago
the only absolute that their is is "truth" and even that is subjective to our individual perception/s...where forth does thou cometh from oh thought?
THEMETAPHY 2 months ago
I do enjoy the uniqueness of UG. True genius amongst all of creation
SOCRATES012 4 months ago
"The appreciation of music...is all culturally determined and is the product of thought. It is acquired taste that tells you that Beethoven's Ninth Symphony is more beautiful than a chorus of cats screaming; both produce equally valid sensations." -UG Krishnamurti
And that quote is the reason I don't like this guy. He's just insecure that Western music is completely superior to Eastern.
NinetiesYouth 4 months ago
He just appears to be nuts, much prefer to take in what Jiddu Krishnamurti has to say, at least JK has real insight.
keithfaecorstorphine 4 months ago
As UG says to be free from the need to be free
NondualAwareness 4 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Check out my channel guys. My way of explaining might be totally inline with how you understand. And you might get something out of it.. or NOT which is the Actual goal :)
NondualAwareness 4 months ago
... only one thing has to be remembered: when you are fragile in your growth, people like U.G. Krishnamurti can destroy you. These people have missed their life, and now they are living in frustration. And in frustration people start behaving like women. They start breaking things, throwing things. That's what U.G. Krishnamurti is doing.
Jankuks14 5 months ago
He looks like Richard Dawkins on steroids.
Adeikov 5 months ago
@Adeikov
Just drunk
alllman2000 6 days ago
Love the way UG almost giggle enjoying when Luc says '...from disease to divinity'.
22mar79 6 months ago
Shiva has a picture of UG on his wall.
TheSeekingIsOver 6 months ago 20
@TheSeekingIsOver And Krishna shivered at UG's feet!
Velasca 2 months ago
@TheSeekingIsOver
Shiva never had a wall.
That's UG there surrounded in comfort yapping...
alllman2000 6 days ago
@nomadings
Strange that UG went through the entire gamut...yoga,meditation and then after listening to a JK talk he then got "lucky"...is it not?
Would he have gotten similarly "lucky" without the "background" "preparation"?
No way.
alllman2000 6 months ago 2
no it is because you are actually and thats why
NeidhardtMatthias 6 months ago
"We're the all singning, all dancing crap of the world"
Frustrated men never stop talking.
Every philosopher need to to talk.
The real truth is in silence:
So everyone SHUT THE FUck up.
Enjoy you ride.
I think.
:D
MATvision 6 months ago
yeah they come in masses like flies and spread their wisdom but actually nothing happens...thats what they call illsuion
NeidhardtMatthias 6 months ago
@NeidhardtMatthias speak with some respect, if nothing happens to you maybe it because your a complete idiot
TheMagicEast 6 months ago
@TheMagicEast yeah scratch your ass and if it smells like honey i am really an idiot
NeidhardtMatthias 6 months ago
@NeidhardtMatthias sorry what? dont worry dude, have a good day
TheMagicEast 6 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
UGK was ashamed for having huge ears...
fossegrim91 7 months ago
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fossegrim91 7 months ago
he arrives at his conclusions through evidence presented to him. How does that make him a `follower`? You are capable of reinventing a perspective. It just so happens that his perspective is the MOST objective one, if you think about it.
rahmiaksu 7 months ago
@rahmiaksu
Actually his whole line is merely a twist on the "material vs. spiritual" debate.
UG takes a purely material stand...as do numerous scientists, physicists, atheists etc.
What on earth is so new about this?
Even at the end of the interview what UG says is a massive cop out.
When told that indian sages have been going "Tat tsvam asi" (thou art that) - he says that that is just a line, They actually haven't internalised it.
Apparently only he has..Utter nonsense
alllman2000 7 months ago
@alllman2000 If his ego gets the best of him, that does not mean we can categorically brush aside his talks as nonsense. You are either calling him unoriginal or nonsensical. His appearance might have something to do with that. If you are looking for "new", you'll shop for a long time :) it's like genetics... many many many mutations have to happen before a useful mutation takes place. is that one success original? I think not.
rahmiaksu 7 months ago
@rahmiaksu
No, didnt say it was nonsense.
Just said that there is absolutely nothing radically new in what he is saying.
Same old mere repackaging ....
alllman2000 1 week ago
@rahmiaksu
Oh ,sorry actually i did use the word "nonsense"
so, incorrect use of the word.
Lets just say - Same shit, different asshole
alllman2000 1 week ago
@rahmiaksu
Materialism has been a part of indian thought for ages...carvaka etc...I dont think UG is saying a single new thing. Merely a mix and match of this and that...similar to what Osho used to do.
alllman2000 7 months ago
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TheHolyMolyPoly 11 months ago
"A man should be mourned at his birth, not at his death. "
Charles de Secondat
MysticOfTheSands 11 months ago
Just the other day I was reading a lecture of U. G. Krishnamurti. He says he went to see Ramana Maharshi. He was not attracted - because he was chopping vegetables. Yes, Ramana Maharshi was that kind of man, very ordinary. Chopping vegetables! U. G. Krishnamurti must have gone to see somebody extraordinary sitting on a golden throne or something. Ramana Maharshi just sitting on the floor and chopping vegetables? preparing vegetables for the kitchen! He was very much frustrated.--Osho
communeosho 1 year ago
@communeosho
Coming from the guy who teaches with a golden watch on and is said to own 100 rolls royce. lmao
Menarson 11 months ago
@communeosho i guess he expected him stop chopping vegetables and order a pizza; hahhahaha; anyhow if ramana was italian he would be doing what italians do ie make cheese in their kitchens
tube4625 11 months ago
Just the other day I mentioned U.G. Krishnamurti. When he saw Ramana Maharshi reading joke books and looking at cartoons, he was very much frustrated. Not only that: a man asked a question about God and U.G. Krishnamurti was present there - very seriously, bowing at his feet, a man asked about God. And what did Sri Ramana do? do you know? He gave him a joke book and said, "Read it!"--Osho
communeosho 1 year ago
@communeosho thanks for putting up these two jokes; lmao.
tube4625 11 months ago
"we will be more useful to nature, dead, then alive"
devalrex 1 year ago
Believe none of it.
Tohu333 1 year ago
he is good but he is a Buda of Body...a new kind of last man { nietzsche}
douglasmacjames 1 year ago
I am though Impressed to find that I was thinking what he's saying all this time, and that is that "we believe everything around us has been created for us to use it" and that is the rationale for our misery
OviOvinet 1 year ago
Refreshing
UploaQuic 1 year ago
We don't know what has happened to him.
wernertrptube 1 year ago
UG
He makes a real reboot from his total system crash.
wernertrptube 1 year ago
this vid shud be used as an anti drugs message to all school children; as a very good example of why you should stay away from crack cocaine. gets u insane in the membrane.
rkd19 1 year ago
This guy is a crook
Bruce88keys 1 year ago
In my darkest despairing moments I view life in UG's way. Luckily I have previously touched a pleasure BEYOND the five-sense-world before, in meditation, and the recollection of this happiness gets me through those dark moments. My level of understanding is still in it's infancy, but I can state that awareness and mind are two separate things. The experience of this was a joy OTHER than the sensual. It was a glimpse for me of higher wisdom, to which I offer reverence. We are NOT just automatons!
hearts0ngs 1 year ago
Well, I choose not to accept UG's bleak view of humanity and existence. To me it sounds very much like gross materialism poured into a spiritual bottle. Not something I wish to drink.
hearts0ngs 1 year ago
Very beautiful teacher, but a horrible video production, what a shame...
Karthikcarsten 1 year ago
I listen a lot of gurus, master but this man is the real BOSS !
douglasmacjames 1 year ago
U.G Krishnamurti was in a deep sleep, as far away from his liberation of suffering as can be. He has much borrowed knowledge which has has manipulated intellectually into his own interpretation of existence, but no transformation has occurred. And that is the quality of every master, the very presence of the man emanates a certain fragrance. Without saying anything, it is a finger pointing towards the inexpressible.
U.G was not awakened, but he has said a few significant things here and there.
Amirmourad 1 year ago
@Amirmourad
He had the energy, many so-called awakened don't have that
dylanskriloff 1 year ago
@dylanskriloff
Certainly your mind will see whatsoever it wants to see. But unless you yourself have come to an awakening, even if you happen to be in the presence of a Buddha - it will be impossible for you to recognize him.
Amirmourad 1 year ago
@Amirmourad
you don't even recognize what this guy has
dylanskriloff 1 year ago
@Amirmourad You're so far off the mark here it's not even funny.
Hilarion1771 1 year ago
@Hilarion1771
Then start sensing the joke. On the mark, or off the mark, it is really irrelevant. Either one is functioning out of one's own intelligence, then one will be capable of an eye of clear seeing. If one is not functioning out of one's own intelligence, then with enough desire to believe, one can believe just about anything at all, regardless of who is saying it. U.G Krishnamurti is simply speaking in the shadow of J.Krishnamurti. And in fact, he had hated that shadow his whole life.
Amirmourad 1 year ago
@Amirmourad UG and J Krishnamurti are dead labels for people like yourself to contemplate.
Hilarion1771 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
P.S.: U.G. thought he could dismiss science while enjoying all the comforts it provided him during his life. Good night!
szmako 1 year ago
@szmako He was kind of the man who thinks the universe was created for him lol..
OviOvinet 1 year ago
One more comment on U.G. . To me, he is not an enigma or anything else! He is only a human being, a primate! Humans make other humans gurus, saints etc. By saying he is an enigma, a phenomenon you have already made him a guru. He had his own beliefs and problems in life. God/s, spirituality, thinking of having an ego, human relationships, fear, happiness are also part of our behaviour, way of living. He lacks knowledge of ... (many things).
szmako 1 year ago
He says we don't need to be free from anything, but what about thoughts? I want to be free from thoughts. He says that thoughts are violent and fascist. I agree. He says he has no thoughts. If I am free from thoughts, I am free from fear. It is thoughts that produce fear.
No3Patriot 1 year ago
I curse and bless the day I read 'Mystique of enlightenment'. This old bastard fucked with my mind in some deep, unconscious, irreversible way.
richerite 1 year ago 2
@richerite Was the same with me. It still causes discomfort to read it :D
He kept me away from a lot of strange teachers ^^
PatrickStarfish666 1 year ago
IF YOU READ JUNG YOU CAN ANDERSTAND WHAT HAPPEN TO UG. THIS IS A BIOLOGICAL AND PSICHOLOGICAL PROCESS OF SELF AND IT TAKE TIME, YEARS...
LEVRAIVRAIZEN 1 year ago
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LEVRAIVRAIZEN 1 year ago
Very hard to except we are only an effect of an energy that expresses in many forms across an infinite progression without a center or edge. Any value we assign or do not assign to this fact is simple our own reflection that we maintain inside the focus where our so called individual energy manifests. An agreed upon illusion, a ghost, but a very persistent one as Einstein says. The only constant is not only change also infinite stillness without assignable attributes permeating everywhere.
jobedied 1 year ago
you can explain perfectly new UG state of mind with Nietzsche, Apolon became Dyonisos. Self killed himself. UG became free the same freedom.
LEVRAIVRAIZEN 1 year ago
I do not agree with him. He used to say e.g.: "What we do not want is the fear to come to an end." Fear is natural, it has had preventive functions throughout evolution. As I see it, it has nothing to do with what he has told.
szmako 1 year ago
@szmako *You love fear. The ending of fear is death, and you don't want that to happen. I am not talking of wiping out the phobias of the body. They are necessary for survival. The death of fear is the only death." - UG Krishnamurti
Educate yourself before commenting.
Menarson 1 year ago
@Menarson The end of fear is the end of thoughts. The end of thoughts would make me a new person, a person like UG. Fear is insecurity produced by thoughts.
No3Patriot 1 year ago
@No3Patriot Don't blame your thoughts they have their place. They are the creator of fear but also the creator of love.
Menarson 1 year ago
@Menarson You imagine that thoughts have place because you cannot imagine yourself without them. UG was living proof you don't need thoughts. Stephen Jourdain (now deceased) also claimed to not have thoughts. What happened to UG is very similar to what happened to Stephen Jourdain. His book is called "Radical Awakening". Look it up at amazon. We'd have a revolution around the world tomorrow if everyone's thoughts disappeared because nobody would be afraid of idiots who run the world.
No3Patriot 1 year ago
@No3Patriot UGs thoughts didnt stop. They only "came into a rythm". Thats what he said. I respect Ugs absolute concept but I wouldnt dismiss all relativity because of it.
Menarson 1 year ago
@Menarson Here the question posed to UG ( I found it at inner-questDOTorg/ugDOThtm):
Question: Now, do you have thoughts or concepts?
U.G.: No.
[snip] Question: So when you don't have those projects in mind for practical planning, you have nothing in your head?
U.G.: No, nothing. My way of functioning is that I am always occupied with what is happening at that moment and there is no room for any preoccupation.
No3Patriot 1 year ago
@No3Patriot Well that seems like a step backwards in evolution. I'm happy that I'm able to contemplate multiple things and human thought has brought about many great technologies, even if we use them for the wrong purposes. Of course we could all stop thinking and live in caves again but I don't think that that's the best thing for humanity.
Menarson 1 year ago
@Menarson I don't think you have a fully informed opinion about it. Thoughts aren't going to go away anytime soon anyway, so there's really no point in discussing it, especially with someone like yourself who has already proven [to me] to be prejudice. I want to discuss the possibilities, and you don't. End of story. G' day.
No3Patriot 1 year ago
@szmako Thoughts create fear. How is fear produced without thoughts? It can't be. If he did in fact say that we do not want fear to come to an end, then what he means is that we don't want thoughts to come to an end. That may be true for some, but not for me.
No3Patriot 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@No3Patriot Thoughts create fear. How is fear produced without thoughts? I agree. But it is not you who creates thoughts, it is your brain. If you were attacked by a lion/tiger etc., wouldn't you have fear?!
szmako 1 year ago
Isn't it your thoughts trying to get rid of themselves? You want to have control of not having thoughts and this wanting-control that creates fear?
szmako 1 year ago
@szmako Thoughts can't disappear by themselves. A person can quiet their thoughts like that of a Zen monk, but they won't entirely disappear. I don't want to control my thoughts because I already know I can't control my thoughts due to knowledge that is stored in my brain or mind, or whatever you want to call it. Knowledge causes thoughts. UG talks about that in his books. You should get a few and read them.
No3Patriot 1 year ago
@szmako There is a book called "No Way Out: Conversations with U. G. Krishnamurti". It's a google book. Do a search in google for it. Not all of the pages are there but what is there is really good.
No3Patriot 1 year ago
@No3Patriot
I scanned through fast his work of "No Way Out". I agree with some of his statements. I think culture is also part of one of our closest "realtives", the chimpanzees. It is natural to have culture and for humans to have a purpose in life. In this view, it can be said that U.G. had the purpose of not having a purpose. As far as our senses can reveal reality, evolution is a fact. Because there is no ego, I can't create thoughts. They are created by the brain.
szmako 1 year ago
@szmako Chapter 4 of this book talks about purpose. He states, "It is up to you to find out. I can say that there is no purpose, and if there is any purpose,
we have no way of knowing it. We only repeat what we have been told. We are made to believe that there is a purpose, and that belief is what is responsible for the tragedy of mankind today. ... So I really don't know if there is any purpose. I don't think that there is any. I do not see any meaning or purpose in life."
No3Patriot 1 year ago
@szmako Thoughts are created when there is someone there (a You) to create them. "You" do all the thinking and thought producing. When you are not there, there are no thoughts, and there are no things or others. That's the message I got from his books, not just this one. Good luck to you.
No3Patriot 1 year ago
@No3Patriot
Thanks! But I cannot agree with him on the 'You". There is no You!Me. It is only an illusion having a center/ego in us who is in charge of. Our Brain creates the sensation of "me" as an ego. Sorry, Mate but he lacks some knowledge of neurology. How the brain functions. To me, he is making a mistake when he separates the body from the "I", the brain. It cannot be separated, it is the way we function. Remember, you would have fear, if you were attacked by a predator!
szmako 1 year ago
@szmako You are confused. I just said exactly what you just said about the "you" yet you say you don't agree. What exactly don't you agree with? There is a "you," but it is, as you say, only an illusion/ego. "You" create the illusion center/ego. When "you" disappear, where is the illusion ? Where is the center/ego if "you" are not there? Most of our fears come from what we have learned from others. It is learned therefore most fears are "in our head" or imagination--i.e., not real.
No3Patriot 1 year ago
@No3Patriot
So there is "No Way Out"! XD Our brains are conditioned. Fear as well as happiness are also part of our way of living/experiencing. Maybe I am getting confused! Maybe that human animal is a species that is looking for purpose in life!?
szmako 1 year ago 2
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No3Patriot 1 year ago
@No3Patriot I like this way of interpreting F.E.A.R.! But we do not have ego! How can you achieve(is it an illusion to achieve) being freed from thoughts/words? or that is the way we are?
szmako 1 year ago
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No3Patriot 1 year ago
@No3Patriot
For you too! Good night!
szmako 1 year ago
@szmako He speculated there's no fear in the body, while actually there is shaking and all that..
OviOvinet 1 year ago
@szmako There ARE people who have no fear when attacked by a predator like you say. You're putting yourself in everyone elses shoes. If you showed no fear to a predator i.e a cobra, you would much less likely be attacked.
Hilarion1771 1 year ago
@Hilarion1771
You can have fear when attacked by ... (anything you want), and at the same time being brave. To have fear, happiness is natural! To my way of thinking, there is no body and you separated, it is all one. It is a never ending story to agree or disagree about who's wrong or right. Have a nice day!
szmako 1 year ago
@szmako Who is attacking... and is there any separation between the attacker and that being attacked - you're talking "about" oneness and not coming from it, do you see?
Hilarion1771 1 year ago
@Hilarion1771
I do not know what you mean. I see separation. If I was attacked e.g.: by a tiger, I would have fear and (maybe) run or shit myself!
szmako 1 year ago
As I saw it, for you, U.g.'s interpretation of reality or human behaviour is similar to your way of thinking or his views can help you shake off the burdens of this society we live in!?? No hard feelings, Mate! Is there anything to disagree or agree about? To the best of my knowledge, the left part of our brain is responsible for rationality and the illusion of "I", self-experience can be found. So it is "implanted" in our brain. There are techniques that can dissolve the "I" sensation.
szmako 1 year ago
He is right. And no one is ready.
MrTobiathan 1 year ago
Crap!
arbide2 1 year ago
when you look at the world, everything is registered as something. a book, a cup television., that is the knowledge. the object in memory then creates the illusion of subject.
bucketbotable 1 year ago
Is there any relation between U.G. Krishnamurti and Jidu K. ?
normduval1 1 year ago
@normduval1 Yes, from very friends to arch-rivals. Lol
SamuelSkelter 1 year ago
@normduval1
UG went to JKs talks and on his last talk UG went home
and had the calamity.
Its strange that he had the change of consciousness after a JK talk
nasafakedit 1 year ago
@nasafakedit @normduval1 UG makes it clear that the 'calamity' happened without his volition and DESPITE his religious background including anything related to J. Krishnamurti.
well{dot}com/user/jct/myth{dot}htm
SamuelSkelter 1 year ago
@SamuelSkelter yea but the point is he had the clamity the same afternoon after he went to a JK talk, some coincidence
nasafakedit 1 year ago
@nasafakedit But since the age of 35 he was already suffering many physical changes - headaches, the way he began to look younger from such age till his 49th and some powers etc. That JK talk refreshed his memory and made him conclude that he was not only already functioning in the state JK was talking about but it was all about physical and not transcendental as well. He realised that he had been a fool all his life, searching for something which doesn't exist, then the 'calamity' happened.
SamuelSkelter 1 year ago
@SamuelSkelter its just rather strange that the calamity happened after a JK talk
nasafakedit 1 year ago
Yo I tink dis guy UG is da bomb. Ya'll brothas agree or naw?
Solipsisticfreelance 1 year ago
most people think when they open there eyes and look around that what there seeing is outside..it seem's doesn't it that "you" are behind your eyes...chop a arm off,you might live..take away the empty space in front of you,you die..what can't be more you than everything you see..its inside me i'm inside it..interconnected,no separation..
thegriggspaul 1 year ago
how does he know he was there 50 years ago??? if he says there is no such thing as memory????? lame ass!!!!!!!!!!!
323HIPHOP 1 year ago
People say all kinds of things.
ToneinHamilton 1 year ago
Wise man, but I feel that his words are not completely free (of resistance). Nonetheless, thoughts and knowledge are not bad. It is when thought evokes emotion that it becomes compulsive, that is the basis of ego. Conditioning is all about associating emotion (esp. fear) to thoughts.
ken107 1 year ago
All I see here is a very VERY frustrated man, not to be compared or even gets close to the passion and truth in Jiddu Krishnamurti's talks
SteveDutchy 1 year ago
I wonder every time I see this man . why is he talking at all if he has nothing to say. he creates more confusion than anything else. Maybe thats good but would be interesting to know how
hellospider 1 year ago
It would be rude not to answer questions asked by well-intentioned people. I'm glad that he tells the truth about the ridiculousness of conceptual partiality and its conceptual attempts to become whole.
brittonnd07 1 year ago
@hellospider
Well, if you are confused you will start to think about...would you have been thinking about without being confused? ;-)
Octava712 1 year ago
when all concepts are dropped, That which remains is it.Even that of 'being';our most cherished concept!
wychwood7 1 year ago
my respect for UG has increased manifold. especiall after seeing the exploits of gurus like nithyananda and ravishankar.
Metaemipricus 1 year ago
Fraud imitator-rubbish
Bruce88keys 1 year ago
Takes one to know one!
brittonnd07 1 year ago
Respond to this video...
Bruce88keys 1 year ago
I can cook Maggi. I am enlightened
mahiraj 1 year ago
All that U.G says is wise. Rather than worry about 'life', 'death', 'reincarnation' and other concepts rather ground yourself in the faithful understanding that 'you' will always be 'aware' of a moment. Indeed we ARE time itself-the eternal flowing moment. No stagnancy here!!
norrisonthespot 1 year ago
If you've read all of UG's books you would nothing good or bad to say about him. He's an Enigma, a phenomenon and can't be classified as anything. I don't know what to say about him. I really don't
macarajunia 1 year ago 6
@macarajunia He was an idiot trading on the the Krishnamurti name-
Bruce88keys 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@macarajunia You can say a lot of things about him, if you want to.
AddieWTH 1 year ago
@macarajunia good remark :)
but that not-knowing applies for everything, not only for UG ;)
fossegrim91 1 year ago
@macarajunia
Actually UG is simply a "follower" of an ancient system - "neti,neti"
For all his so called "uniqueness" he is just another "mystic" out of the innumerable that India has produced
alllman2000 9 months ago 16
@alllman2000 Except UG is saying that everyone is unique, and that whatever happened to him cannot be placed within any kind of 'mystic' tradition.
sarcee1960 8 months ago
@sarcee1960
That itself is nothing new!
Same ol' stuff repackaged a little bit here and there
alllman2000 8 months ago
@alllman2000 Really? Please give an example of another mystic who's teachings are the same as UG's.
sarcee1960 8 months ago
@sarcee1960
Actually , there is nothing new at all.
For eg. JK started negating just about everything (neti , neti)
UG simply carried the very same process itself
trying to negate JK himself ...
And so it goes.
UGs old saw, and one of his core statements "The question itself must dissapear' - is also nothing really new.
Classic reductionism
alllman2000 8 months ago
@alllman2000 JK never really negated anything at all, he simply said "truth is a pathless land" while still retaining the foundational concept of truth (i.e. spirituality, enlightenment, etc).
"The question itself must disappear" isn't reductionism, it's negation. Reductionism reduces a proposition to something else, more basic. Negation negates the proposition, by falsifying the premise. Of course negation itself isn't anything new, but there's more to what UG is saying than negation.
sarcee1960 8 months ago
@sarcee1960
Actually "pathless land" is in effect saying that all "paths" must be rejected.
Re. Truth ,enlightment etc (whether it exists) or UGs "version" ( it is just a biochem thing etc) are both versions of the same process- negation. UG says you can't reach his "state" except somewhat accidentally.
But, UG actually went almost the whole hog on the "spiritual path" from Yoga in the Himalayas or somewhere , as a JK "disciple" etc...till the "question itself disappeared"
alllman2000 8 months ago
@alllman2000 Yes, if we take 'path' to mean a pre-existing route or method. But JK, unlike UG, never negated the end goal of the path (i.e.enlightenment). One could argue that JK may have even inadvertently created a path via 'choiceless awareness.' or his own version of 'meditation or 'watching thought, etc. For UG, there was no point or need for these things, as there was nothing to realize or gain from them.
sarcee1960 8 months ago
@sarcee1960
The reason I mention "reductionism" is that that in effect was UGs philosphy.
In that there is "nothing" except the "material" body. All else is human fantasy.
That is exactly what an fundamental physicist would say- That there are only elementary particles, strings whatever.
However, even if you go down that road - it seems that the particles themselves are nothing but "energy"- "truth" what you will.
alllman2000 8 months ago
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sarcee1960 8 months ago
@alllman2000 I see what you mean. Yes, that is a form of reductionism. In cognitive science there is a school called eliminative materialism i.e. eliminating the 'mental' by explaining phenomena in terms of physiological processes. I was just using negation in the sense that, say, an atheist would negate the very idea of God, and not reduce God to talk of physical properties. I think UG is similarily negating the very idea of the 'spiritual', and not reducing it to mere physiology.
sarcee1960 8 months ago
@sarcee1960
So, for all of some of UGs childish "negation" of JK ( he has only "seen the sugar cube" not eaten it - or whatever) - It may actually perhaps be the other way around
It may be that UG "stopped" at the elementary level- and that there is indeed another final "energy" level
Who knows?
But, that is the "final" conclusion of the same "process"- negating "conditioning" in whatever form etc.
alllman2000 8 months ago
@alllman2000 Or it may be that whatever happened to UG had nothing to do with levels of energy or sprituality at all, as UG himself insists. I've actually asked Narayana Moorty about this, whether UG just had some kind of neurological disorder and was not any kind of sage or mystic. Moorty told me he's wondered the same thing.
I guess we'll never know. But I've never read or heard anyone else talk about spirituality, religion and mysticism quite the way UG did.
sarcee1960 8 months ago
@sarcee1960
Well UG did put things a bit differently. But then that is perhaps the only reason anyone bothered to listen to him
JK too was "revolutionary" in his outlook when he came along- chucking everything aside.
Just continues the unparalled and unending wonderful Indian tradition of independent "search" and thinking (unlike the more "brainwashed" type of "religions" we encounter so much nowadays)
Long may their Tribe prosper!!
alllman2000 8 months ago
@sarcee1960
Another thing we seem to forget- UGs 'awakening' or 'accident' or 'event' or whatever (however he wishes to describe it) - is actually classic awakening of the Kundalini.
It has been document in detail for thousands of years.
So, it seems a litte far fetched to assume that noone has ever experienced something similar.
alllman2000 8 months ago
@alllman2000 Yes, but UG always insisted this had no spiritual content at all. It was a purely physical phenomena produced as a by-product of the body falling into its own natural rhythm. Please name me another mystic who said the same thing.
sarcee1960 8 months ago
@sarcee1960
Then perhaps the mistake we are making is by labelling UG a "mystic".
The innumerable people in India who have awakened Kundalini by various time honoured techniques ( normally at the end stage like UG, after a gestation of "spiritual practice") or otherwise "spontaneously" have ALL stated that several bodily changes occured.
All standard documentation of Kundalini is identical to what UG describes as happening to him.
alllman2000 8 months ago
@alllman2000 Yes, even UG admits that the swellings he experienced happened to correspond exactly to the areas where Kundalini manifests. Most, if not all, other mystics have described similar symptoms and bodily sensations. JK had swellings at the nape of his neck. What makes UG unique is his interpretation of these physical manifestations. He imputes no spiritual, psychic, supernatural, holy, religious or otherworldly significance to them. To UG, those are all merely cultural constructions.
sarcee1960 8 months ago
@sarcee1960
If UG then describes this as the "natural state" (for want of a better word) then all animals should be in this state- as he often indirectly claims.
Why then do animals never experience an "awakening" of the kundalini?
The only logical explanation seems to be that they are not "conditioned" to begin with and so are born in the "natural state"
Whereas Man over millenia has developed certain conditioning ,mostly on an evolutionary basis.
alllman2000 8 months ago
@alllman2000 Whatever we know about the 'natural state' is through UG's interpretation. He may be wrong about it not having anything to do with spirituality. He may be right. All we have are his words. We in turn interpret his words. We can't apply what UG says to animals, since we can't know for certain what UG's state is without being in that 'state' ourselves, nor do we have access to animal consciousness to compare with UG's state.
sarcee1960 8 months ago
@sarcee1960
Then it follows that stone age man should have been living in the "natural state" too (till the "conditioning" of modernity caught up with him)
This would then follow that barbarianism, cannabilism etc are all part and parcel of the "natural state".
Yet a so called "sage" or "enlightened chap" or fellow like UG who is in the "natural state" will NEVER behave in such a fashion
I think after JK negated just "about" everything UG had no option remaining but to negate JK himself.
alllman2000 8 months ago
@alllman2000 Actually it's civilized people who are the real barbarians, as any quick glance at history reveals. UG claimed personal proclivities have nothing to do with the natural state. "Why I sometimes go to the limit of saying it is possible for a rapist, for a murderer, for a thief, for a convict, for a con man, -- this kind of thing happen!"
As I've mentioned, JK didn't negate the 'truth' (i.e. spirituality, love, the other etc.), he only negated all the traditional paths to it.
sarcee1960 8 months ago
@sarcee1960
Oh,no doubt that "civlised" people are the "real" barbarians in that they are "more" barabaric.
Or for that matter that a thief,murderer etc can experience "that"- Numerous ppl have stated that.
But that is not the point:
The point is that in the "natural" state UG would be "Totally "unconditioned"" and do things like for eg. scratch his privates in public, indulge in public sex,and do all sorts of "animal- natural" things.
But CLEARLY there is a VERY human ingredient maintained
alllman2000 8 months ago
@alllman2000 Ok, I see what you were saying now. Still, UG often said one can never free oneself from conditioning. As long as there is a mind or consciousness, it is bound to be conditioned. The conditioning helps the body to survive in the social and physical world. The natural state isn't an unconditioned state, it is one in which conditioning doesn't interfere with the functioning of the organism.
sarcee1960 8 months ago
@sarcee1960
So- as UG says somewhere - he came back to life from the brink (or something to that effect) then it is entirely possible that it is he who has "seen the sugar cube but not tasted it"
Perhaps he had some more "levels" to go- but stopped at the bodliy level- hence his stringent claims.
Infact- there have for long been "warnings" to the effect to Not "let" the physical transformations "get in the way" to enable the full expression of Kundalini
UG may have stopped too soon
alllman2000 8 months ago
Comment removed
sarcee1960 8 months ago
@alllman2000 The assumptions here are 'sugar' and 'levels' viz enlightenment. UG was careful to avoid making any logical leap from physiological processes to something spiritual or holy.
sarcee1960 8 months ago
@sarcee1960
Which is why I said that UG is essentially identical to the fundamental physicist or scientist or standard materialist.
In that - if it cannot be observed physically or predicted mathematically - it doesn't exist.
That is the essential "difference" between a "mystic" and a "scientist".
alllman2000 8 months ago
@alllman2000 Well, he still is describing something which still is VERY new and original for many people around the globe.
fjanton83 8 months ago
@fjanton83
If you have some free time on your hands you may want to take a look at the ancient and rich hindu philosophy . UG experienced an awakening of the "kundalini". This is exactly as has been documented in india for thousands of years.
Sure it may all be new for many ppl "around the globe". what surprises me is that indians are in anyway surprised by a "mystic" who goes around using "neti neti" for just about everything.
alllman2000 8 months ago
@alllman2000 Yep, it would be a nice trip to someday explore the hindu-knowledge. The awakening (kundalini?) UG was into lasted for some days, changing about one sense per day, according to his own words. Yeah, I find it also a bit strange that the Indian audience feeds the conversation. And also, "neti neti" could be as a scale in music - very much to do with it. Many melodies/barks can come out of one scale. Just because this method is recalled as "neti neti" it hasnt been fully experienced
fjanton83 8 months ago
@fjanton83
Well ,if for thousands of years persons Have been experiencing the awakening of the "kundalini" , creating "structured" procedures for it, clearly documenting it etc...it is difficult to assume that noone has ever "fully experienced" it.
How do we know UG has? He "stops" at the "material" level - "there is nothing except the body etc etc"...
How do we know that there is no further "pure energy" level (or whatever)
Actually the "mystics" are more in line with the new age physicists
alllman2000 8 months ago
@alllman2000 ug is not saying that there is no such thing as pure energy u go thru the book biology of enlightenment where ug's old talks frm 1967 to 71 is recorded. what he is saying that that energy cannot be perceived with the help of mind because mind is matter that energy cannot be given expression................even ashtavakra samhita spks the same. secondly what u and i knw is what we hve been told so we hve to find out if there is energy or no such thing
9861356322 7 months ago
@fjanton83
Again- the surprising part is that anyone in India is surprised by UG (sure he may shock certain ppl in other countries)
In India all this is actually Old Hat...UG maybe a little more or less vulgar and hard hitting ...or he may a little twist here and there...but then if he parroted the same thing as say his "guru" JK noone would be bothered...And so it goes...on and on...
alllman2000 8 months ago
@fjanton83
next charismatic chap , in order to push the envelope may say that there is no "natural state" either...
it is JUST the organs working INDEPENDENTLY of each other...with the brain simply as "controller".
Or another may say.
There is no "body" either...Just pure energy ..."manifesting" itself
Etc etc ....
Just like Nature manifests itself in infinite ways ,why should the "kundalini" manifest itself in any one particular way?
alllman2000 8 months ago
@alllman2000 You are right! :)
fjanton83 8 months ago
@alllman2000 But 'neti, neti' presupposes that there's 'That' which one can realize after excluding everything that mind can grasp, and UG goes further dismissing even 'That' as merely another trick of thought. It's thought telling itself that 'That' is 'something' (disguised as a 'no-thing') beyond itself whilst in fact it's just another idea of itself.
22mar79 6 months ago