All the Abrahamic faiths - Judaism, Christianity and Islam - follow the same God. In ?Judaism in particular there are a few dozen different 'names of God' but JHVH is the ultimate one, and as a word it's treated something like the Hindu OM in that it permeates the entire universe. But because JHVH has no vowels, it is the 'holy unpronounceable name of God'; the letters JHVH are not the sacred name itself, because the sacred name only attains full power in its utterance.
Do you know nothing of Christianity or Judaism? Man only knows how to spell out God's name, but since there are no vowels, we can only guess how it is said aloud.
Many theorise it is most likely Yahweh, or Jehovah Jirah.
I really love how SMT games really make you question your morals and really immerse you into feeling how much your choices weigh. Not to mention they all have kick ass stories and great enemies.
@pollosaurio777 urban legend. god's real name in hebrew(ancient, i think) is Elohim. El pertains to god in hebrew, thus the angel's names. samaEL, zadkiEL, zerakiEL, michaEL, it's simple theosophy!
@DGneoseeker1 seems like it, but YHVH is still not the name of the god. that's like saying deity is the name of the christian god, when it's simply "god". Allah(the islamic god) is exempt from this, as allah (according to my translated copy of the quran) is impossible to translate into english. see? you're learning! XD
@Chaoktarukto Eh? The name of the Christian god is not "god". That's his title. YHVH is merely another version of YEHOVAH or IEHOVAH or JEHOVAH, which is the "word of god". It IS meant to be his name. (So the Jewish and Christian gods are BOTH JEHOVAH/YHVH) But of course seeing as JEHOVAH and ALLAH are the same deity anyway, they can't all be his name... It's now thought that another name for the same god is "El" from the Caananite faith. And he has a wife.
@gabohades13 according to my Quran, Allah is a name that doesn't equate with anything in english. it doesn't mean god, or anything else. it's the name for something that islam cannot describe. so we can say that the judeo-christian god shares ties with the islamic god but is NOT the same god.
@Chaoktarukto Allah does not equate God's name, neither does the actual term God. In the Moabite God is said to reveal himself by spelling his name, and saying "I am Yahweh, that is My name; I will not give My glory to another, or My praise to idols." In the al-Quran, God sent numerous prophets to mankind to convey his will, but muslims believe Muhammed is his last and greatest prophet, so in that sense they are indeed the same deity. But who cares its all relative really.
@DGneoseeker1 Elohim is a title. YHVH has three Titles commonly used: Elohim, "The God that is with us" meaning he is the god present in protecting the world, El Shaddai, God of the Mountains, and El Elyon, "God most High." In the Bible, YHVH is swapped for "The Lord" and "Elohim" is swapped for "Your god"
@ZombieRyushu Huh, I didn't know about El Shaddai being a title for God. But technically "God" is just a title too, right? YHWH/YHVH is his actual name. If you can call it that. I seem to remember hearing it means "I am who I am" though I fail to see how it could considering we don't even know what the rest of it IS apart from the tetragramnation.
@ZombieRyushu Huh, I didn't know about El Shaddai being a title for God. But technically "God" is just a title too, right? YHWH/YHVH is his actual name. If you can call it that. I seem to remember hearing it means "I am who I am" though I fail to see how it could considering we don't even know what the rest of it IS apart from the tetragramnation.
@DGneoseeker1 We call YHVH "God" now because of I think the third of the Ten commandments which makes it a sin to call YHWH by his real name. So often referring to YHWH, we here him called "Anodai" which is Hebrew for "Lord". (This is where "The Lord" comes from. El Elyon, El Ohim, and El Shaddai are adjectives describing WHAT YHWH is, YHWH describes WHO he is.
There were originally more members of YHWH's race running around, which is why these terms are used.
@ZombieRyushu Interesting. It's not often someone admits that YHWH is not the only member of his "species". That is exactly how I interpreted the situation from the Bible. Usually I see Christians claiming that the YHWH worshipped by Christians is a different being to the YHWH from the old pantheon. A dubious claim at best.
@DGneoseeker1 He had a wife named Asherah that he had killed and history erased her name. Also, Ba'al was of the same species as YHVH. The fact that we have a YHVH Elohim and not a Ba'al Elohim is because YHVH's followers could start a camp fire and Ba'al followers could not.
@DGneoseeker1 It was a bit indirect. Ba'al YHWH outright killed. However, Asherah was made into a Human and permitted to live the rest of her life as a Human. HOWEVER.
One of the last Preists loyal to Asherah attempted to use an Asherah Pole (A symbol of Asherah's power) to regain her status as YHWH's wife. He got caught and was killed on the spot, (at least I think thats how the story goes). YHWH either ordered her Human incarnation hunted down and killed, or his priests did.
@ZombieRyushu Interesting. The trouble is so far I've not really found anything to show that El and YHWH are really the same deity. Though El is definitely meant to be Asherah's husband.
@DGneoseeker1 Thats something I disagree with 3vid3nce. He says that El was a superior to YHWH, Ba'al and the others, however, El is an adjective and not a Noun, like El Shaddai, Elohim, El Elyon. These were describing terms. My theroy is that the El had not been identified yet, or the writers were trying to say Abraham didn't KNOW the name of the Deity and just called him "El" (God)
@DGneoseeker1 The fall of the holy temple in Jerusalem to the Babylonians and the Babylonian captivity were attributed to a lack of devotion to the war god YHWH. Kings after the Babylon captivity told that nothing was more important than fighting for YHWH.
@DGneoseeker1 There's another user named 3vid3nce that explains this stuff. He shows how the story changed over time. I may have parts if the story wrong. I don't think YHVH, Ba'al, or Asherah were ever real.
"Shinrei"... is that "divine spirit" or "successor" (in the sense of a new incarnation) in this context? Anyone who's Japanese is not as horrible as mine. lol
@stridervm I see! Thanks! I was a bit confused because this was the battle after the the other battle and he had a new color. Kind of like "Gannondorf" and then "Gannon" as the final boss, which embodies "precedent". How do you tell the difference? I've been stinting on Japanese language study... =P
The game calls creatures by their alignment. Categorizing Beelzebub as Maoh. (Demon in English literature) So I guess Divine is more appropriate as sucession doesn't correlate with the game's logic, and the YHVH you face earlier is a creature created from the angels faith anyway.
For a while I had hopes that SMT 2 would receive the same treatment that Persona 1 got for the PSP, but this battle alone makes me think otherwise. It's a shame really, as the game is quite good.
is it just me, or has YHVH slowly been creeping up on the good guy scale ever since SMT began to build steam in North America (Nocturne on). I mean, he went from being a genocidal prick in this game to almost sort of being on your side (albeit still being a prick) in Devil Survivor.
well, he was sort of in Nocturne (he was the reason the vortex world exists, and presumably the True Demon ends with you going off to beat the shit out of him). He doesn't actually appear, but he plays a large role nonetheless
Considering what the second form looks like, and the preachy battle speeches, it's pretty safe to assume Kagutsuchi is an avatar of God. Not to mention Mithra and Metatron directly serve Him too.
@Twardz In Devil Survivor, both YHVH and Metatron are very chill and sympathetic. All the other angels (with the exception of Remiel) are a bunch of goddamn stuck up assholes.
I see, looks like I'll have to put more time in to Survivor then. It's story is rather interesting so far and now that THOSE TWO are involved that much, I just gotta see it myself.
@Luisfius Metatron's a stalwart douche no matter what. SMT angels in general are just useless. Although God's the one that keeps them from entering the fray.
I'd argue that YHVH was only nice because Abel happened to be involved, and was his favourite. The other angels don't sympathize with him and so they still advocate 1984 with angels for Earth.
I'll have to say, I like this game for its storyline. It's like something Matt Stone and Trey Parker would come up with.
"Thor blows up Tokyo with nukes to build a second Vatican over the ruins. Years later, it gets built. You, the hero, is believed to be the Messiah unless you kill Gaaawwd, in which case, you piss off all the Christians."
Really, from what I can tell, YHVH (the "real" one) in SMT II, is genuinely acting from compassion- it just happens to be the compassion of a being utterly removed from the human perspective.
The way I took it, He was so disgusted at all the oppression and pain going on, especially because it was inflicted by angels acting in His name, that He decided to start over, and create a world without any suffering whatsoever.
Not all demons are good, if anything most of them would be considered either neutral or all-around opposed to man. On the other hand SMT2 does favor the Chaos ending much more than the Law one.
Neutral, man fending by himself without relying in either Chaos or Law is probably the most accepted path.
But if anything, it is antitheist, since in most of the SMT games, both sides (Law or thinly veiled christian allegories and chaos, a mixture of lolbertarians/post apoc anarchists and demon worshippers are depicted as horrid choices), and the best endings are generally achieved by rejecting both sides.
(Also the wholesale deity murder and resurrection going on)
huh yeah I suppose. I mean if you look at it it's not realy god ( the real god) since there are other deities and gods in the storyline. Its kind of like a fictional character based on god (I did my research :)). I think it's kind of showing the ups and downs of everything, kinda like the whole things an allegory for christians/jews vs. atheists yknow?
Except that it is supposed to be the one true god, lord of lords and whatnot. But just like in other media (American Gods, the comic Doc Frankenstein, etc), it is kinda like this: a once minor deity that rose into power A LOT due to receiving a lot of faith while the faith in other deities diminished, or the alternate from SMT: Nocturne: He is the big multiversal overdeity, faith and human thought created and/or formed other gods.
In the end it is all supposed to stem from imagination and faith.
But I wonder, I don't mean to be critical or anything but you dont like the SMT games? Don't worry if its a "no", I'm okay, I can understand, trust me!
@kitethefallenangel I do like the series. That is why I play them, and why I am planning to eventually get Strange Journey, which will be pretty much Megaten + The Thing.
I didn't know Buddah was decapitated. Why do I feel like all they need to do is throw something and it turns out to be TV or something (like in that one movie or was it a commericial?)?
It's not bloody 'taboo' for a Japanese company to put god (or YHWH, or YHVH, or YHWA, or whatever) in a video game, even as a villain. It's controversial, but it's a design choice.
Hey, I'm on your side. What I like about the Japanese is how they're allowed to put religious stuff in video games without actually believing it or getting bashed for it. I love SMT because of how many different mythologies it gets its monsters from. Here in America, it's nothing but Judeo-Christian, Norse, and Greek demons and monsters---how original!
I'm christian and love SMT. This was an interesting concept. Though, I can't help but think they might be more to the story, really. But, I'll see if SMT IV confirms it or not.
Nah he's not the ultimate evil. YHVH is the epitome of "Order" and all the things attributed to it such as oppression and safety, while Lucifer is the epitome of "Chaos" and all things attributed to it such as Freedom and lack of protection for the weak.
Really they both have their high and low points. I myself prefer to stay Neutral.
Pretty much. If you go with YHVH, there's peace and order, but you've pretty much created a fascist world. However, if you go with Lucifer, while you have freedom, there's no structure, so everything falls into anarchy.
I'm gonna be honest, i'd stay neutral in that case because it sounds like you're screwed if you pick either side. Peace but you end up with fascism or free will but you end up with chaos. How can you not stay neutral when you end up with such a choice.
@WeaponXSigma To be honest, choosing either side doesn't become a negative for ya, because if you choose anyside you become a vital part of that new world. The deal is that you have to make a choice based on what you want for humanity.
Besides in any case we already know that Aleph (the MC) is already screwed since we discover what was his punishement for killing God (if you didn't notice Aleph= Hijiri)
@SolBadguyXX I already knew that one. Nocturne was a great game. I'm just waiting for an SMT4 to come out. It would be cool if both Aleph and Hitoshura were secret bosses on that one. That would be pretty cool. Tough as hell to beat but still cool
@skuckon You're right, but Demiurge is not God as much as another view of God.
But none the less Demiurge can be debated to be YHVH since in Strange Journey Demiurge shouts "WORSHIP ME! THE CREATOR OF ALL, UNPARALLELED BY ANY!". If YHVH and Demirurge (Yaldabaoth) are the same then it would be cool to be used as a main antagonist figure for the future SMT game.
@SolBadguyXX I get the feeling you didn't fight the Strange Journey one. The Demiurge you fight in Strange Journey is noted to be the god of the old testament in the compendium - but that's not all. In the text when you GET the ex mission (which is after you defeat Alilat, and I have yet to see youtube vids of this text), it's outright stated that Demiurge is only a PIECE of god, not the whole thing.
@dgarrat What's interesting about this game is that it only treats Lucifer/YHVH as your enemy by the actions that you make. By your values played out in the game, you could see either to be an enemy, which is a unique aspect that few games venture to.
What I think is funny is how all the Christians in the world get pissed off at you if you win this battle. It's almost like Matt Stone and Trey Parker wrote the storyline for this game---but they didn't.
Well I am a Christian and I was a little surprised at first but after I beat him all I could think was "I just Killed him so that couldn't have been The God." Checked of another false GOD killed in my notebook. :)
Of course 'someone' has to give a long debate about this. It is the internet.
Anyways, whats with the shaky screen? Is it supposed to be doing that as a sort of 'hes so powerful he can even SHAKE THE MENU!' kind of thing? Or is it just a weird bug?
So I guess it was for super famicom. Is there something you can get to translate it or any program which lets you? I would definitely like to play it.
Allah used to be one of the pagan gods of Mecca but Mohammad used the name Allah to promote his own religion. Supposedly there was an Arabic word for God but it's been lost because the Arabic world only used the word Allah for God for many centuries now.
and Allah is not YHWH, and Allah has nothing to do with YHWH or Jesus Christ(YHWH as a human)
Your idea merely comes from Hinduism. If I apply your logic into this, then Zeus is supposed to be the same god that the Christians worship. But he is not.
Mohammad never knew the meaning of Trinity in the first place, Christianity pretty much has nothing to do with Islam.
Christianity DOES have to do with Islam, how? Both are Abrahamanic religions. Judaism, Christianism, Islam, those 3 religions are supposed to worship the God of Abraham. Judaism and Christianism from the branch of Isaac/Israel, and Islam coming from Ishmael's branch. All 3 religions are supposed to worship the same deity.
I don't think you understand the whole thing here. Just because Koran talks about similar stories of Bible doesn't mean the Muslims believe in the same Abrahamic God.
Old Testament and the New Testament both have certain laws for all human beings, but Koran has nothing to do with the Bible stuff in the first place.
Let's see, both religions share similar origins, similar myths, share character/actors... Hell, Islam calls Christianity and Judaism followers "people of the book", it is the same god in all 3 religions, only that Muslims think theirs is the last revelation that God has sent to man.
By your logic, then the God of Christianity is not the God of Judaism either, since it is clearly a VERY different entity than the one in the Old Testament.
Looks like you are pretty new to the religion stuff. In the Old Testament, Jesus' coming is being prophesied and the New Testament is supposed to be a part of the Bible eventually. But Islam's Koran has nothing to do with it because the Bible itself ends with the chapter of Revelation.
Just because the Muslims say they believe in the Abrahamic God doesn't mean they do. The Muslims technically do not even accept the Bible anyway(Only a few do)
It is an Abrahamic religion. Why? It says it comes from Abraham. It shares prophets with other Abrahamic religions, it is of Semitic origin, blah blah blah.
It is an Abrahamic religion. Hell, they believe in Abraham, Moses, Noah, Jesus, and other Judeochristian prophets.
All 3 religions have related roots. And they all worship the same deity.
Related roots huh. I really appreciate if you could tell me what the related roots are when you think of Islam and Christianity. Bible clearly states that there will be many false prophets who will claim to be the prophet of God or messiah, and indeed, this prophesy is in the Revelation and the Bible book ends.
I don't think an atheist like you would understand this in the first place.
Once again, the three main Abrahamic religions (Judaism, Christianism and Islam) are religions with a shared origin, and worshipping the same god, the god of Abraham. The 3 religions are monotheistic, have a shared prophetic tradition, have incredibly similar/the same sacred histories at some points (Adam, Moses, Noah, Abraham, etceterah).
Why do you feel threatened by knowing that the JudeoChristian god is the same god worshipped by the Muslims?
Looks like you really don't know the details of Islam. That is why I said an atheist like you would never understand. Accepting Jesus as prophet is basically blasphemy in Christianity, and the Bible clearly states that Jesus was not merely just a prophet.
Judaism does not accept Jesus, but Christianity itself came from Judaism and Judaism can be called Abrahamic religion. But Islam does not continue from Judaism nor Christianity.
Once more, Islam takes Jesus as a very, very important prophet. And takes the Gospels as very important, yet incomplete divinely inspired texts. For Islam, the Torah, the Gospels and the Qur'An are sacred books, but only the Qur'An is unadultered and perfectly transmitted. Islam DOES continue from Judaism and Christianity, taking Muhammad as the final prophet.
And you are jumping to conclusions, by calling me an atheist. Where have I said here that I don't believe in any deity?
Muslims believe in the Torah? Now I can see that this conversation is pretty much pointless since you are merely trying to pretend to know something about those 3 religions.
And Muslims take Jesus as a very important prophet? Read the Koran first and tell me something intelligent later on please, it wouldn't be too late even by then.
They respect it. And they respect the New Testament as well. They believe that they are sacred texts, but altered or incomplete or with transmission errors.
Again, they call the other two Abrahamic religions "The people of the Book" for a reason.
why would they respect the book of Torah? Torah is merely a book of Jewish tradition.
and like I said, from the Old Testament to the New Testament, it's about the descendants of Abraham and Mohammad is not even a Jew in the first place. Just because the people categorize Islam as an Abrahamic religion doesn't mean it must be recognized as one of them, because Islam does not continue from anything.
In Islam they claim to come from another son of Abraham, Ishmael, while the Jews come from Israel.
They would respect the book because it is divinely inspired.
Islam IS a Abrahamic religion, since it claims to worship the exact same god that the other two main Abrahamic religions follow. It recognizes all the Jewish Prophets as such, and considers Jesus to be a very important Prophet.
Truly, I know how you feel, you try to pretend to know something about those 3 religions but like I said, it is difficult for an atheist to understand them. The idea of Jesus Christ in the New Testament and the idea of Jesus Christ in Koran are completely different and it is a known fact that Mohammad thought that he thought Holy Trinity was Father, Mother and Son.
Once again, when the hell have I said here that I was an atheist?
Also: Let me guess. You are a Protestant fundamentalist/evangelical.
So what if the idea is different? They accept Jesus as a Prophet and accept that the New Testament IS an important text. Islam does have elements from the other Abrahamic religions, and worships the same God. Why is that a difficult concept/painful concept for you?
I was born Catholic but my ideas and everything can be categorized as Protestant, so yes, you are right.
Once again, accepting Jesus as a prophet doesn't mean they actually believe in Jesus and you should know what the Koran says about the Islamic end of time. Also, Christianity and Judaism both believe in the Heaven, but Islam believes in a paradise with many virgin women.
Anyway, as an atheist yourself, do some more research first.
Difficult or painful? I am merely stating the obvious. The Muslims do not like the Bible and they believe that Koran is the only true book, so how can the God of Christianity and Judaism be equal with the god of Islam?
Just do some research on Islam first and speak. You are agnostic, so then I don't think you even believe in God much.
Once again, I have said that they respect the Bible as a divinely inspired text, yet not THE unaltered sacred text. They consider it a text that has been tampered with, or with transmission errors.
And yes, they consider the Qur'An the last sacred book, with no transmission errors or alterations, since it was directly transcribed.
They say they worship the god of Abraham, and that is the god of both Christianity and Judaism. It is the same entity.
Do you think the people who attack the Bible endlessly actually even respect the Bible itself? Once again, Mohammad did not know the meaning of the Holy Trinity and Jesus is not being portrayed as an important prophet but just a mere prophet.
The Old Testament ends by saying that there will be a Messiah who will bring the new laws, and NT ends by saying that there will be false prophets in the end, so warns us not to get deceived.
How can the God of Judeo-Christianity who forgives those who believe in the Christ and Allah of Islam who says ok for the Muslims to kill the non-Muslims be the same God? And besides, Mohammad even prays to Allah by saying 'let those unbelievers be cursed and if the angels speak of evil, then let them be cursed as well' and stuff. No prophet prays like that in the Bible.
God is pretty bloodthirsty and violent there. How can the forgiving and loving god of the New Testament be the same god that killed the entire world's population, promoted genocide, cursed many, many peoples, and demanded blood sacrifice?
And no, Islam does not say to kill non-Muslims. It says that the People of the Book should be respected, but they must pay tribute.
Now, atheists and apostates... Islam is not kind to them at all.
As I thought, you are just an atheist who knows nothing about Christianity. God does not merely 'Kill', it's called 'Judgment'. And the God of Old Testament and the God of New Testament are eventually the same. Heavenly Father and Jesus, they both are One. And God kept judging people in the OT because the humans have been the enemies, but Jesus' body sacrifice has put an end to this.
Again, I am currently an Agnostic. You are apparently able to consider the cruel and vengeful god of the Old Testament with the all benevolent god of the New Testament, but cannot accept that the same being is also identified in a different way in Islam. I know that I won't be able to convince you, because you are clearly a fundy. I would not want to either, since this is very amusing to me.
Nothing is amusing to me because I am not trying to convince you or anything, convincing atheists like you is like trying to grab a star in the space. To tell you again, failing to understand the equalness of God of OT and Jesus is merely your problem and comes from the lack of intelligence of Christianity. This is not even hard to understand if you just simply read the Bible carefully.
But you are pretty much atheistic, so I'm sure you will only see God's judgments as 'Killing'
My faith is weak? One more time, I was merely stating the clear truth. I am not threatened by anything, and it is that saying that Muslims believing in the same God we believe is completely wrong since nothing in the Bible prophesied anything about coming of Islam.
Just because your ignorance of Christianity is not helping here doesn't mean you can say my faith is weak because it's not.
Well, your reactions are those of a man who feels threatened/scared by other faiths. And that is a sign of a rather weak faith.
And all 3 religions claim to worship the god of Abraham, share faith in Adam, Noah, Abraham, the Prophets, and Christianity and Islam both believe in Jesus (in different ways, but they do), how can that be NOT an Abrahamic faith?
Maybe you just don't want to share your deity with people you don't agree with.
All the Abrahamic faiths - Judaism, Christianity and Islam - follow the same God. In ?Judaism in particular there are a few dozen different 'names of God' but JHVH is the ultimate one, and as a word it's treated something like the Hindu OM in that it permeates the entire universe. But because JHVH has no vowels, it is the 'holy unpronounceable name of God'; the letters JHVH are not the sacred name itself, because the sacred name only attains full power in its utterance.
RobertYoung33 6 months ago
So this is YHWH? I thought he be a taller! :D
rahungry 6 months ago
supernatural season 7 spoilers. FUCKING GODSTIEL
gentrelane 8 months ago
YHVH? It's easy!
I doubt they can defeat the YMCA!
Piraja 1 year ago 3
Why do they call him YHVH? Couldn't they have gone with something, pronounceable?
dragonstormx 1 year ago
@dragonstormx
Do you know nothing of Christianity or Judaism? Man only knows how to spell out God's name, but since there are no vowels, we can only guess how it is said aloud.
Many theorise it is most likely Yahweh, or Jehovah Jirah.
KevinTheDuke22 1 year ago
I really love how SMT games really make you question your morals and really immerse you into feeling how much your choices weigh. Not to mention they all have kick ass stories and great enemies.
EXEGUNSO 1 year ago 8
scuse me yhvh is for casuality yave from bible
pollosaurio777 1 year ago
@pollosaurio777
Luisfius 1 year ago
@pollosaurio777 Pues si.
Luisfius 1 year ago
@pollosaurio777 urban legend. god's real name in hebrew(ancient, i think) is Elohim. El pertains to god in hebrew, thus the angel's names. samaEL, zadkiEL, zerakiEL, michaEL, it's simple theosophy!
Chaoktarukto 8 months ago
@Chaoktarukto I was under the impression that Elohim was a title or general word for A god, not the NAME of that particular god.
DGneoseeker1 8 months ago
@DGneoseeker1 seems like it, but YHVH is still not the name of the god. that's like saying deity is the name of the christian god, when it's simply "god". Allah(the islamic god) is exempt from this, as allah (according to my translated copy of the quran) is impossible to translate into english. see? you're learning! XD
Chaoktarukto 8 months ago
@Chaoktarukto Eh? The name of the Christian god is not "god". That's his title. YHVH is merely another version of YEHOVAH or IEHOVAH or JEHOVAH, which is the "word of god". It IS meant to be his name. (So the Jewish and Christian gods are BOTH JEHOVAH/YHVH) But of course seeing as JEHOVAH and ALLAH are the same deity anyway, they can't all be his name... It's now thought that another name for the same god is "El" from the Caananite faith. And he has a wife.
DGneoseeker1 8 months ago
@DGneoseeker1 let us agree that god's name is relative.
Chaoktarukto 8 months ago
@Chaoktarukto I'm not sure what you mean by it being relative. It just changes depending on the religion, despite being the same deity.
DGneoseeker1 8 months ago
@DGneoseeker1 I believe that is what he meant.
handofstand 4 months ago
@Chaoktarukto Allah means god... they worship the same god of christians and jewish people: Yhvh
gabohades13 7 months ago
@gabohades13 according to my Quran, Allah is a name that doesn't equate with anything in english. it doesn't mean god, or anything else. it's the name for something that islam cannot describe. so we can say that the judeo-christian god shares ties with the islamic god but is NOT the same god.
Chaoktarukto 7 months ago
@Chaoktarukto Allah does not equate God's name, neither does the actual term God. In the Moabite God is said to reveal himself by spelling his name, and saying "I am Yahweh, that is My name; I will not give My glory to another, or My praise to idols." In the al-Quran, God sent numerous prophets to mankind to convey his will, but muslims believe Muhammed is his last and greatest prophet, so in that sense they are indeed the same deity. But who cares its all relative really.
TheFunkyTonic 6 months ago
@DGneoseeker1 Elohim is a title. YHVH has three Titles commonly used: Elohim, "The God that is with us" meaning he is the god present in protecting the world, El Shaddai, God of the Mountains, and El Elyon, "God most High." In the Bible, YHVH is swapped for "The Lord" and "Elohim" is swapped for "Your god"
ZombieRyushu 1 month ago
@ZombieRyushu Huh, I didn't know about El Shaddai being a title for God. But technically "God" is just a title too, right? YHWH/YHVH is his actual name. If you can call it that. I seem to remember hearing it means "I am who I am" though I fail to see how it could considering we don't even know what the rest of it IS apart from the tetragramnation.
DGneoseeker1 1 month ago
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@ZombieRyushu Huh, I didn't know about El Shaddai being a title for God. But technically "God" is just a title too, right? YHWH/YHVH is his actual name. If you can call it that. I seem to remember hearing it means "I am who I am" though I fail to see how it could considering we don't even know what the rest of it IS apart from the tetragramnation.
DGneoseeker1 1 month ago
@ZombieRyushu Also, as for Elohim, how come they use that word? It's technically a plural, so it should mean "Gods".
DGneoseeker1 1 month ago
@DGneoseeker1 We call YHVH "God" now because of I think the third of the Ten commandments which makes it a sin to call YHWH by his real name. So often referring to YHWH, we here him called "Anodai" which is Hebrew for "Lord". (This is where "The Lord" comes from. El Elyon, El Ohim, and El Shaddai are adjectives describing WHAT YHWH is, YHWH describes WHO he is.
There were originally more members of YHWH's race running around, which is why these terms are used.
ZombieRyushu 1 month ago
@ZombieRyushu Interesting. It's not often someone admits that YHWH is not the only member of his "species". That is exactly how I interpreted the situation from the Bible. Usually I see Christians claiming that the YHWH worshipped by Christians is a different being to the YHWH from the old pantheon. A dubious claim at best.
DGneoseeker1 1 month ago
@DGneoseeker1 He had a wife named Asherah that he had killed and history erased her name. Also, Ba'al was of the same species as YHVH. The fact that we have a YHVH Elohim and not a Ba'al Elohim is because YHVH's followers could start a camp fire and Ba'al followers could not.
ZombieRyushu 1 month ago
@ZombieRyushu ...YHWH killed his own wife? So much for thou shalt not kill.
Is there by any chance a reference where I can find information about that? I know people who could do with reading about that.
DGneoseeker1 1 month ago
@DGneoseeker1 It was a bit indirect. Ba'al YHWH outright killed. However, Asherah was made into a Human and permitted to live the rest of her life as a Human. HOWEVER.
One of the last Preists loyal to Asherah attempted to use an Asherah Pole (A symbol of Asherah's power) to regain her status as YHWH's wife. He got caught and was killed on the spot, (at least I think thats how the story goes). YHWH either ordered her Human incarnation hunted down and killed, or his priests did.
ZombieRyushu 1 month ago
@ZombieRyushu Interesting. The trouble is so far I've not really found anything to show that El and YHWH are really the same deity. Though El is definitely meant to be Asherah's husband.
DGneoseeker1 1 month ago
@DGneoseeker1 Thats something I disagree with 3vid3nce. He says that El was a superior to YHWH, Ba'al and the others, however, El is an adjective and not a Noun, like El Shaddai, Elohim, El Elyon. These were describing terms. My theroy is that the El had not been identified yet, or the writers were trying to say Abraham didn't KNOW the name of the Deity and just called him "El" (God)
ZombieRyushu 1 month ago
@ZombieRyushu Ah I see. Could be either, I suppose. Was there ever a reason given by YHWH for why the other gods were not to be worshipped?
DGneoseeker1 1 month ago
@DGneoseeker1 The fall of the holy temple in Jerusalem to the Babylonians and the Babylonian captivity were attributed to a lack of devotion to the war god YHWH. Kings after the Babylon captivity told that nothing was more important than fighting for YHWH.
ZombieRyushu 1 month ago
@DGneoseeker1 There's another user named 3vid3nce that explains this stuff. He shows how the story changed over time. I may have parts if the story wrong. I don't think YHVH, Ba'al, or Asherah were ever real.
ZombieRyushu 1 month ago
This battle seems... easy.
edisjigsaw12 1 year ago
@edisjigsaw12 Cause this is the False YHVH created by the archangels.
SolBadguyXX 1 year ago
As much as I love the SMT franchise... SMT2 has the least exciting boss music I have ever heard.
DrolKeegEht 1 year ago
Oh SMT, sacriligous controversial goodness
pwninator345 1 year ago
So, uh, we're fighting Picard?
XVultimaVX 1 year ago 3
Go go Power Rangels!
Got it? Rangers, angels
...Had to say it.
pokemaniak30 1 year ago 5
@pokemaniak30 Bring me five teenagers with attitudes B:<
Th3ba1r0n 1 year ago
.....God is actually Mr. Clean? That explains why his products stain my counters permanently each time there's a spot on it.
DisasterXillus 1 year ago
God looks fuckin ugly, i tell you that...
TidusAbes 1 year ago
Don't say GOD never gave you head.
Xyberfaust 1 year ago 4
Zordon, we need a team of Messiahs with ATTITUDE
Urmean15 1 year ago
yeah! yahveh lost!!!! take this cristians xD
LordAngeluz 1 year ago
"Shinrei"... is that "divine spirit" or "successor" (in the sense of a new incarnation) in this context? Anyone who's Japanese is not as horrible as mine. lol
DarkArckana 1 year ago
@DarkArckana
Divine/holy spirit is more appropriate.
stridervm 1 year ago
@stridervm I see! Thanks! I was a bit confused because this was the battle after the the other battle and he had a new color. Kind of like "Gannondorf" and then "Gannon" as the final boss, which embodies "precedent". How do you tell the difference? I've been stinting on Japanese language study... =P
DarkArckana 1 year ago
@DarkArckana
The game calls creatures by their alignment. Categorizing Beelzebub as Maoh. (Demon in English literature) So I guess Divine is more appropriate as sucession doesn't correlate with the game's logic, and the YHVH you face earlier is a creature created from the angels faith anyway.
PS. My answer is partially original research. =P
stridervm 1 year ago
@stridervm Thanks! "Demon in English literature" Question: Wouldn't "Maoh" be "Demon King" and "Mazoku" be "Demon"?
DarkArckana 1 year ago
Remember that YHVH says that even if Alpeh kills him, the Universe itself will re-create him. So he is the one that Punishes Aleph.
SolBadguyXX 2 years ago
This sucks he's not making funny faces.
NHavocJ 2 years ago
For a while I had hopes that SMT 2 would receive the same treatment that Persona 1 got for the PSP, but this battle alone makes me think otherwise. It's a shame really, as the game is quite good.
rpgrocker01 2 years ago
is it just me, or has YHVH slowly been creeping up on the good guy scale ever since SMT began to build steam in North America (Nocturne on). I mean, he went from being a genocidal prick in this game to almost sort of being on your side (albeit still being a prick) in Devil Survivor.
boredmuskoxen 2 years ago
Not to be an ignorant jerk, but what was YHVH in after this and Devil Survivor?
Twardz 2 years ago
well, he was sort of in Nocturne (he was the reason the vortex world exists, and presumably the True Demon ends with you going off to beat the shit out of him). He doesn't actually appear, but he plays a large role nonetheless
boredmuskoxen 2 years ago
I see, his presence is only known, not seen. He doesn't have the balls that Lucifer does, lol. Showing up in person I mean.
Twardz 2 years ago
Considering what the second form looks like, and the preachy battle speeches, it's pretty safe to assume Kagutsuchi is an avatar of God. Not to mention Mithra and Metatron directly serve Him too.
LavosAdvocate 2 years ago
@Twardz In Devil Survivor, both YHVH and Metatron are very chill and sympathetic. All the other angels (with the exception of Remiel) are a bunch of goddamn stuck up assholes.
Luisfius 2 years ago
I see, looks like I'll have to put more time in to Survivor then. It's story is rather interesting so far and now that THOSE TWO are involved that much, I just gotta see it myself.
Twardz 2 years ago
@Luisfius
excuse me, why is the text in this english?? there's an english version???
frogusbm 1 year ago
ROM translated by Aeon Genesis.
Luisfius 1 year ago
It's a hack. You need a Rom patch.
DarkArckana 1 year ago
@Luisfius Metatron's a stalwart douche no matter what. SMT angels in general are just useless. Although God's the one that keeps them from entering the fray.
blazinghen 1 year ago
@Luisfius
I'd argue that YHVH was only nice because Abel happened to be involved, and was his favourite. The other angels don't sympathize with him and so they still advocate 1984 with angels for Earth.
ClownVonDavid 1 year ago
I do believe you just backhanded God.
I may have to commend you for that times twenty.
MachRiderZero 2 years ago
I love this series. I think nocturne was the most frustrated/elated ive ever felt playing a game.
awin15 2 years ago
I'll have to say, I like this game for its storyline. It's like something Matt Stone and Trey Parker would come up with.
"Thor blows up Tokyo with nukes to build a second Vatican over the ruins. Years later, it gets built. You, the hero, is believed to be the Messiah unless you kill Gaaawwd, in which case, you piss off all the Christians."
alHalwima 2 years ago 2
Could Somebody Tell Me The Difference Between YHVH And YHWA? SorryFor The Ignorant Question.
ozma68 2 years ago 2
@ozma68 the question isn't ignorant. I'm sure that YHVH and YHWA are one and the same. Just a different name.
WeaponXSigma 2 years ago
Really, from what I can tell, YHVH (the "real" one) in SMT II, is genuinely acting from compassion- it just happens to be the compassion of a being utterly removed from the human perspective.
The way I took it, He was so disgusted at all the oppression and pain going on, especially because it was inflicted by angels acting in His name, that He decided to start over, and create a world without any suffering whatsoever.
LavosAdvocate 2 years ago 4
an intresteing way of looking at things.
Shadow772craig 2 years ago
A game where the bad guy is god and demons are good....huh anyone else smell satanism?
1245shadowscythe 2 years ago
Not all demons are good, if anything most of them would be considered either neutral or all-around opposed to man. On the other hand SMT2 does favor the Chaos ending much more than the Law one.
Neutral, man fending by himself without relying in either Chaos or Law is probably the most accepted path.
Luisfius 2 years ago
soooo it's not satanic? i mean is this like borderline blasphemy or somethin?
1245shadowscythe 2 years ago
Blasphemous, definitely.
But if anything, it is antitheist, since in most of the SMT games, both sides (Law or thinly veiled christian allegories and chaos, a mixture of lolbertarians/post apoc anarchists and demon worshippers are depicted as horrid choices), and the best endings are generally achieved by rejecting both sides.
(Also the wholesale deity murder and resurrection going on)
Luisfius 2 years ago
huh yeah I suppose. I mean if you look at it it's not realy god ( the real god) since there are other deities and gods in the storyline. Its kind of like a fictional character based on god (I did my research :)). I think it's kind of showing the ups and downs of everything, kinda like the whole things an allegory for christians/jews vs. atheists yknow?
1245shadowscythe 2 years ago
Except that it is supposed to be the one true god, lord of lords and whatnot. But just like in other media (American Gods, the comic Doc Frankenstein, etc), it is kinda like this: a once minor deity that rose into power A LOT due to receiving a lot of faith while the faith in other deities diminished, or the alternate from SMT: Nocturne: He is the big multiversal overdeity, faith and human thought created and/or formed other gods.
In the end it is all supposed to stem from imagination and faith.
Luisfius 2 years ago
huh thats pretty cool
1245shadowscythe 2 years ago
Wow. Your comments are interesting.
I would agree thought I still like to play them.
But I wonder, I don't mean to be critical or anything but you dont like the SMT games? Don't worry if its a "no", I'm okay, I can understand, trust me!
kitethefallenangel 2 years ago
@kitethefallenangel I do like the series. That is why I play them, and why I am planning to eventually get Strange Journey, which will be pretty much Megaten + The Thing.
Luisfius 2 years ago
@shadowscythe: In Japanese mythology, "demon" refers to any kind of spiritual creature, not just evil ones.
vanisherg 2 years ago
The shakiness during this fight reminded me of Gigyas...
EggmanVahn4 2 years ago 4
Captain Picard... WHY!?
ShinDarkfox 2 years ago 9
I didn't know Buddah was decapitated. Why do I feel like all they need to do is throw something and it turns out to be TV or something (like in that one movie or was it a commericial?)?
KnightoftheColossus 2 years ago 2
I didn't know God was a bald, ugly dude.
Astraknight 3 years ago 14
He's Zordon from power rangers xD
Th3ba1r0n 3 years ago 52
Actually, I used to think Zordon was God when I was a kid for some reason. XD;;
KnightoftheColossus 2 years ago 11
@Th3ba1r0n LOL!
KevinTheDuke22 1 year ago
@Th3ba1r0n ALEPH, SATAN'S ESCAPED! GET 5 DEMONS WITH ATTITUDE!
... yes, you will now hate me forever.
JSHADOWM 7 months ago 12
@JSHADOWM HAHAHA OMG!!!
THe name of YHVH's cathedral is the Church of OMG!!! >XD
Th3ba1r0n 7 months ago
@JSHADOWM
Metatron (white), Uriel (pink), Raphael (blue), Gabriel (yellow), Michael (red).
IT ALL MAKES SENSE NOW...!!! xD
(now all of you can hate me forever...).
TheAlquir 5 months ago
It's not bloody 'taboo' for a Japanese company to put god (or YHWH, or YHVH, or YHWA, or whatever) in a video game, even as a villain. It's controversial, but it's a design choice.
Get yourselves over it. It is a GAME.
-Sincerely, an unconcerned agnosticist
dgarrat 3 years ago 53
Hey, I'm on your side. What I like about the Japanese is how they're allowed to put religious stuff in video games without actually believing it or getting bashed for it. I love SMT because of how many different mythologies it gets its monsters from. Here in America, it's nothing but Judeo-Christian, Norse, and Greek demons and monsters---how original!
alHalwima 3 years ago 19
I'm christian and love SMT. This was an interesting concept. Though, I can't help but think they might be more to the story, really. But, I'll see if SMT IV confirms it or not.
KnightoftheColossus 2 years ago 14
The devs have stated that "YHVH (God) is not the ultimate evil". So make of that what you will.
Personally, I don't think YHVH and Lucifer fall under good and evil, they're both out for their own agendas.
Spektre41 2 years ago 6
Nah he's not the ultimate evil. YHVH is the epitome of "Order" and all the things attributed to it such as oppression and safety, while Lucifer is the epitome of "Chaos" and all things attributed to it such as Freedom and lack of protection for the weak.
Really they both have their high and low points. I myself prefer to stay Neutral.
QReaper 2 years ago 6
Pretty much. If you go with YHVH, there's peace and order, but you've pretty much created a fascist world. However, if you go with Lucifer, while you have freedom, there's no structure, so everything falls into anarchy.
Spektre41 2 years ago
I'm gonna be honest, i'd stay neutral in that case because it sounds like you're screwed if you pick either side. Peace but you end up with fascism or free will but you end up with chaos. How can you not stay neutral when you end up with such a choice.
WeaponXSigma 2 years ago
@WeaponXSigma To be honest, choosing either side doesn't become a negative for ya, because if you choose anyside you become a vital part of that new world. The deal is that you have to make a choice based on what you want for humanity.
Besides in any case we already know that Aleph (the MC) is already screwed since we discover what was his punishement for killing God (if you didn't notice Aleph= Hijiri)
SolBadguyXX 2 years ago
@SolBadguyXX I already knew that one. Nocturne was a great game. I'm just waiting for an SMT4 to come out. It would be cool if both Aleph and Hitoshura were secret bosses on that one. That would be pretty cool. Tough as hell to beat but still cool
WeaponXSigma 2 years ago
@WeaponXSigma Seeing Aleph in a Boss battle would kind of freak me out since it would have to have a reason for him to be there.
SolBadguyXX 2 years ago
@WeaponXSigma Hitoshura already appeared as a secret boss. See: Digital Devil Saga
skuckon 1 year ago
@skuckon I know that. I was referring to if there was a sequel with Both him and Aleph as bosses instead of just Hitoshura this time
WeaponXSigma 1 year ago
@WeaponXSigma Eh. Strange Journey does have Demiurge (who is technically the god of OT, but not NT) and Alilat as bonus bosses.
skuckon 1 year ago
@skuckon You're right, but Demiurge is not God as much as another view of God.
But none the less Demiurge can be debated to be YHVH since in Strange Journey Demiurge shouts "WORSHIP ME! THE CREATOR OF ALL, UNPARALLELED BY ANY!". If YHVH and Demirurge (Yaldabaoth) are the same then it would be cool to be used as a main antagonist figure for the future SMT game.
SolBadguyXX 1 year ago
@SolBadguyXX I get the feeling you didn't fight the Strange Journey one. The Demiurge you fight in Strange Journey is noted to be the god of the old testament in the compendium - but that's not all. In the text when you GET the ex mission (which is after you defeat Alilat, and I have yet to see youtube vids of this text), it's outright stated that Demiurge is only a PIECE of god, not the whole thing.
skuckon 1 year ago
@dgarrat nigger
FuckTheFetus 1 year ago
@dgarrat What's interesting about this game is that it only treats Lucifer/YHVH as your enemy by the actions that you make. By your values played out in the game, you could see either to be an enemy, which is a unique aspect that few games venture to.
funnyhomeboy1 1 year ago
@dgarrat Yup. You're absolutely right. As an atheist, this game has taught me that this is where belief in a god belongs: in fiction. :)
JRC3034 10 months ago
lol internet arguements
Someasianguy 3 years ago 11
What I think is funny is how all the Christians in the world get pissed off at you if you win this battle. It's almost like Matt Stone and Trey Parker wrote the storyline for this game---but they didn't.
alHalwima 3 years ago
Well I am a Christian and I was a little surprised at first but after I beat him all I could think was "I just Killed him so that couldn't have been The God." Checked of another false GOD killed in my notebook. :)
calitz87 3 years ago 9
BTW this was the other one that used Purple Haze riff aside from Sephiroth in videogames
dapithapon 3 years ago
He's the spitting(not literal) image of Zordon. He's a main god yet is he not a final boss?
dapithapon 3 years ago
This is a fake YHVH, created by the faith of the Archangels. The real YHVH in the game IS the final boss.
Luisfius 3 years ago
Woe is thee, SPOILER. :((((
arminius1453 3 years ago 5
Wow, God has MahaAgion. Somehow... not surprising.
ApollyonThelemacus 3 years ago
Of course 'someone' has to give a long debate about this. It is the internet.
Anyways, whats with the shaky screen? Is it supposed to be doing that as a sort of 'hes so powerful he can even SHAKE THE MENU!' kind of thing? Or is it just a weird bug?
akumarayne 3 years ago
Emulation bugs, or a graphical glitch. It also happens in any battle that happens in a dark/foggy environment.
Luisfius 3 years ago
Wow, that was such a long argument with BMW you had there.
I'll just make a crack about how YHVH looks like Zordon and be on my way.
BloodlustKid 3 years ago 12
Get me teenagers with attitude!
QReaper 3 years ago 11
Satan: Ai yai yai yai yai!
Spektre41 2 years ago
So, if you play neutral is there some sort of plot twist where YHWH is actually a complex 4-dimensional computer program?
kome360 4 years ago
No sir. There is nothing like that in SMT2.
Luisfius 4 years ago
This was one annoying fight.
MasterAsra 4 years ago
Even with Divine Intervention. It could have been worse, though.
Definitely the hardest fight up to that point.
Luisfius 4 years ago
Hehe, I mean for me. By that point I'd gotten rid of Anubis, and don't think I had Shiva, since I was going Chaos. :(
MasterAsra 4 years ago
...man, the Japanese are weird.
furbearingbrick 4 years ago
So I guess it was for super famicom. Is there something you can get to translate it or any program which lets you? I would definitely like to play it.
deus223 4 years ago
Aeon Genesis has a translation patch.
Luisfius 4 years ago
What does the YHVH stand for and where does this megami tensei come in and for which system?
deus223 4 years ago
YHVH is the name of the Abrahamanic god.
Shin Megami Tensei II is a SNES game, and part of Atlus' main RPG series. That series includes the Digital Devil Saga and Persona games.
Luisfius 4 years ago
YHWH is the Almighty God of Judaism and Christianity(And maybe Islam's as well....maybe not). He is The Creator of all, The God of the Bible.
We call Him Yahweh, but actually now no one knows His name. Supposedly Abraham knew how to pronounce His name.
MunichBMW 4 years ago
Last time I checked, yes, YHVH is the god of Abraham and thus, also the god of Islam. After all, Allah is just another word that means "God".
May be wrong, though.
Also: Hooray, secret tetragrammaton and whatnot.
Luisfius 4 years ago
Allah used to be one of the pagan gods of Mecca but Mohammad used the name Allah to promote his own religion. Supposedly there was an Arabic word for God but it's been lost because the Arabic world only used the word Allah for God for many centuries now.
and Allah is not YHWH, and Allah has nothing to do with YHWH or Jesus Christ(YHWH as a human)
MunichBMW 4 years ago
That sounds surprisingly similar to the Jack Chick arguments.
Luisfius 4 years ago
and your point is surprisingly irrelavent.
MunichBMW 4 years ago
Not really, since the Jack Chick argument is fallacious and wrong.
Luisfius 4 years ago
Doesn't really bother me at all
MunichBMW 4 years ago
*shrugs*
Whatever makes you happy.
Still, Allah is just the word they use for their god, just like the English God, or the Spanish Dios, or the Italian Dio.
The entity they all refer to is supposed to be the exact same being, under different lights, maybe, but the same being.
And IIRC, in Islam, Jesus is considered a very important prophet, so there is at least a relation there.
Luisfius 4 years ago
Your idea merely comes from Hinduism. If I apply your logic into this, then Zeus is supposed to be the same god that the Christians worship. But he is not.
Mohammad never knew the meaning of Trinity in the first place, Christianity pretty much has nothing to do with Islam.
MunichBMW 4 years ago
Not... Really.
Christianity DOES have to do with Islam, how? Both are Abrahamanic religions. Judaism, Christianism, Islam, those 3 religions are supposed to worship the God of Abraham. Judaism and Christianism from the branch of Isaac/Israel, and Islam coming from Ishmael's branch. All 3 religions are supposed to worship the same deity.
Luisfius 4 years ago
I don't think you understand the whole thing here. Just because Koran talks about similar stories of Bible doesn't mean the Muslims believe in the same Abrahamic God.
Old Testament and the New Testament both have certain laws for all human beings, but Koran has nothing to do with the Bible stuff in the first place.
MunichBMW 4 years ago
Let's see, both religions share similar origins, similar myths, share character/actors... Hell, Islam calls Christianity and Judaism followers "people of the book", it is the same god in all 3 religions, only that Muslims think theirs is the last revelation that God has sent to man.
By your logic, then the God of Christianity is not the God of Judaism either, since it is clearly a VERY different entity than the one in the Old Testament.
Hey, that is actually a gnostic argument.
Luisfius 4 years ago
Looks like you are pretty new to the religion stuff. In the Old Testament, Jesus' coming is being prophesied and the New Testament is supposed to be a part of the Bible eventually. But Islam's Koran has nothing to do with it because the Bible itself ends with the chapter of Revelation.
Just because the Muslims say they believe in the Abrahamic God doesn't mean they do. The Muslims technically do not even accept the Bible anyway(Only a few do)
MunichBMW 4 years ago
It is an Abrahamic religion. Why? It says it comes from Abraham. It shares prophets with other Abrahamic religions, it is of Semitic origin, blah blah blah.
It is an Abrahamic religion. Hell, they believe in Abraham, Moses, Noah, Jesus, and other Judeochristian prophets.
All 3 religions have related roots. And they all worship the same deity.
Luisfius 4 years ago
Related roots huh. I really appreciate if you could tell me what the related roots are when you think of Islam and Christianity. Bible clearly states that there will be many false prophets who will claim to be the prophet of God or messiah, and indeed, this prophesy is in the Revelation and the Bible book ends.
I don't think an atheist like you would understand this in the first place.
MunichBMW 4 years ago
Once again, the three main Abrahamic religions (Judaism, Christianism and Islam) are religions with a shared origin, and worshipping the same god, the god of Abraham. The 3 religions are monotheistic, have a shared prophetic tradition, have incredibly similar/the same sacred histories at some points (Adam, Moses, Noah, Abraham, etceterah).
Why do you feel threatened by knowing that the JudeoChristian god is the same god worshipped by the Muslims?
Luisfius 4 years ago
Looks like you really don't know the details of Islam. That is why I said an atheist like you would never understand. Accepting Jesus as prophet is basically blasphemy in Christianity, and the Bible clearly states that Jesus was not merely just a prophet.
Judaism does not accept Jesus, but Christianity itself came from Judaism and Judaism can be called Abrahamic religion. But Islam does not continue from Judaism nor Christianity.
MunichBMW 4 years ago
Once more, Islam takes Jesus as a very, very important prophet. And takes the Gospels as very important, yet incomplete divinely inspired texts. For Islam, the Torah, the Gospels and the Qur'An are sacred books, but only the Qur'An is unadultered and perfectly transmitted. Islam DOES continue from Judaism and Christianity, taking Muhammad as the final prophet.
And you are jumping to conclusions, by calling me an atheist. Where have I said here that I don't believe in any deity?
Luisfius 4 years ago
Muslims believe in the Torah? Now I can see that this conversation is pretty much pointless since you are merely trying to pretend to know something about those 3 religions.
And Muslims take Jesus as a very important prophet? Read the Koran first and tell me something intelligent later on please, it wouldn't be too late even by then.
MunichBMW 4 years ago
They respect it. And they respect the New Testament as well. They believe that they are sacred texts, but altered or incomplete or with transmission errors.
Again, they call the other two Abrahamic religions "The people of the Book" for a reason.
Luisfius 4 years ago
why would they respect the book of Torah? Torah is merely a book of Jewish tradition.
and like I said, from the Old Testament to the New Testament, it's about the descendants of Abraham and Mohammad is not even a Jew in the first place. Just because the people categorize Islam as an Abrahamic religion doesn't mean it must be recognized as one of them, because Islam does not continue from anything.
MunichBMW 4 years ago
Are. You. Dense?
In Islam they claim to come from another son of Abraham, Ishmael, while the Jews come from Israel.
They would respect the book because it is divinely inspired.
Islam IS a Abrahamic religion, since it claims to worship the exact same god that the other two main Abrahamic religions follow. It recognizes all the Jewish Prophets as such, and considers Jesus to be a very important Prophet.
Really, why do you feel so threatened by that?
Luisfius 4 years ago
Truly, I know how you feel, you try to pretend to know something about those 3 religions but like I said, it is difficult for an atheist to understand them. The idea of Jesus Christ in the New Testament and the idea of Jesus Christ in Koran are completely different and it is a known fact that Mohammad thought that he thought Holy Trinity was Father, Mother and Son.
MunichBMW 4 years ago
Once again, when the hell have I said here that I was an atheist?
Also: Let me guess. You are a Protestant fundamentalist/evangelical.
So what if the idea is different? They accept Jesus as a Prophet and accept that the New Testament IS an important text. Islam does have elements from the other Abrahamic religions, and worships the same God. Why is that a difficult concept/painful concept for you?
Luisfius 4 years ago
I was born Catholic but my ideas and everything can be categorized as Protestant, so yes, you are right.
Once again, accepting Jesus as a prophet doesn't mean they actually believe in Jesus and you should know what the Koran says about the Islamic end of time. Also, Christianity and Judaism both believe in the Heaven, but Islam believes in a paradise with many virgin women.
Anyway, as an atheist yourself, do some more research first.
MunichBMW 4 years ago
Once again, when have I said that I was an Atheist? You are putting words in my mouth/fingers.
Luisfius 4 years ago
So then let me ask you, what's your religion?
MunichBMW 4 years ago
Baptized and confirmed Catholic, currently agnostic.
Now answer me, why is the concept of Islam worshipping the god of Abraham difficult or painful to you?
Luisfius 4 years ago
Difficult or painful? I am merely stating the obvious. The Muslims do not like the Bible and they believe that Koran is the only true book, so how can the God of Christianity and Judaism be equal with the god of Islam?
Just do some research on Islam first and speak. You are agnostic, so then I don't think you even believe in God much.
MunichBMW 4 years ago
What the hell.
Once again, I have said that they respect the Bible as a divinely inspired text, yet not THE unaltered sacred text. They consider it a text that has been tampered with, or with transmission errors.
And yes, they consider the Qur'An the last sacred book, with no transmission errors or alterations, since it was directly transcribed.
They say they worship the god of Abraham, and that is the god of both Christianity and Judaism. It is the same entity.
Luisfius 4 years ago
Do you think the people who attack the Bible endlessly actually even respect the Bible itself? Once again, Mohammad did not know the meaning of the Holy Trinity and Jesus is not being portrayed as an important prophet but just a mere prophet.
The Old Testament ends by saying that there will be a Messiah who will bring the new laws, and NT ends by saying that there will be false prophets in the end, so warns us not to get deceived.
MunichBMW 4 years ago
And that makes the god of Islam not the Abrahamic god... How? Different interpretations would not make the religions not related.
Different interpretations. Different views. Different theologies.
Luisfius 4 years ago
How can the God of Judeo-Christianity who forgives those who believe in the Christ and Allah of Islam who says ok for the Muslims to kill the non-Muslims be the same God? And besides, Mohammad even prays to Allah by saying 'let those unbelievers be cursed and if the angels speak of evil, then let them be cursed as well' and stuff. No prophet prays like that in the Bible.
MunichBMW 4 years ago
You clearly have not read the Old Testament.
God is pretty bloodthirsty and violent there. How can the forgiving and loving god of the New Testament be the same god that killed the entire world's population, promoted genocide, cursed many, many peoples, and demanded blood sacrifice?
And no, Islam does not say to kill non-Muslims. It says that the People of the Book should be respected, but they must pay tribute.
Now, atheists and apostates... Islam is not kind to them at all.
Luisfius 4 years ago
As I thought, you are just an atheist who knows nothing about Christianity. God does not merely 'Kill', it's called 'Judgment'. And the God of Old Testament and the God of New Testament are eventually the same. Heavenly Father and Jesus, they both are One. And God kept judging people in the OT because the humans have been the enemies, but Jesus' body sacrifice has put an end to this.
MunichBMW 4 years ago
Again, I am currently an Agnostic. You are apparently able to consider the cruel and vengeful god of the Old Testament with the all benevolent god of the New Testament, but cannot accept that the same being is also identified in a different way in Islam. I know that I won't be able to convince you, because you are clearly a fundy. I would not want to either, since this is very amusing to me.
Luisfius 4 years ago
Nothing is amusing to me because I am not trying to convince you or anything, convincing atheists like you is like trying to grab a star in the space. To tell you again, failing to understand the equalness of God of OT and Jesus is merely your problem and comes from the lack of intelligence of Christianity. This is not even hard to understand if you just simply read the Bible carefully.
But you are pretty much atheistic, so I'm sure you will only see God's judgments as 'Killing'
MunichBMW 4 years ago
So, now I am an atheist that has never even read the Bible. You really like to put titles on persons, right?
Aww, look, it is a cute fundie/fundy. I bet you are enraged that the Bible's Genesis is not teached as the literal truth.
On the other hand, your faith is so weak that you feel threatened by other faiths! That's pretty awesome.
Luisfius 4 years ago
My faith is weak? One more time, I was merely stating the clear truth. I am not threatened by anything, and it is that saying that Muslims believing in the same God we believe is completely wrong since nothing in the Bible prophesied anything about coming of Islam.
Just because your ignorance of Christianity is not helping here doesn't mean you can say my faith is weak because it's not.
MunichBMW 4 years ago
Well, your reactions are those of a man who feels threatened/scared by other faiths. And that is a sign of a rather weak faith.
And all 3 religions claim to worship the god of Abraham, share faith in Adam, Noah, Abraham, the Prophets, and Christianity and Islam both believe in Jesus (in different ways, but they do), how can that be NOT an Abrahamic faith?
Maybe you just don't want to share your deity with people you don't agree with.
Luisfius 4 years ago