Raymond Buckland - Witchcraft: Yesterday and Today Part 1

[HeathenSaxon]

What an absurd video. We Polytheists most certainly do NOT view deity in this way. This is new age nonsense.

[MultiDoodool]

It is not nonsense it is a religion,don't bother it and we won't bother you!x-(

[DeathsHood]

@HeathenSaxon Oh wow, way to generalize every polytheistic ideal on the planet.

[HeathenSaxon]

@DeathsHood WIcca is a new age joke. Odinism is true polytheism. Sorry, get over it.

[DeathsHood]

@HeathenSaxon Oh? What about the entire Greek Pantheon? or Animism? O any of the thousands of other polytheistic ideologies?

Get over yourself, ignorant tool.

[513jlynn]

I like Raymond Buckland. His book, The Complete Book of Witchcraft, was one of my first study guides.

[AngAntBru]

@Jpj226

[AngAntBru]

@witchman1

[AngAntBru]

Great job sir

[megapimp666]

I cannot believe how much HATE is coming from some of you! Regardless of the history of Wicca, we should all focus on the positive aspects of it. It has brought people together in a world full of stress and pain! Even if Gerald Gardner invented what Wicca is now, it's irrelevant. All religions have a beginning somewhere. Let's all put the hate behind us and hold one another's hand as we dance in the circle, and may we help each other when we stumble.

[ViaNocturna85]

@sagewoman1 When you learn about Traditional Witchcraft and look at non Witchcraft sources about Witchcraft it's clear Wicca is not what it claims to be...and it's hilarious how I'm getting a lesson on Witchcraft when I'm a direct decendant of Jonet Allen lol...all the best to you

[ViaNocturna85]

Oh also, let's look at Witches living around the time of Gardner but practised before him, let's check aka Robert Cochrane where he writes in a letter to a fellow witch about a man (Gardner) something along the lines of: "I hear there is a man around the new forest asking the locals where he may find some witches"...at that time Gardner claimed he already was initiated...As for Aradia, it was a book written at a time when there was a rise in spirituality and written by a non witch

[ViaNocturna85]

Origins of Witches in britain is not 'Witch'...Anglo Saxons (Germanic) used the word Haegtesse...that's where the word 'hag' comes from, and has become the dutch 'Heks', and german 'Hex', so saying wicca was the original is a myth...do your research lol.

Let's look at Crowley pre-Gardnerian Wicca "An it harm none, shall be the whole of the law" - Looks remarkably similar to wicca doesnt it? And this guy wasnt a witch but thats inspiration for Gardners wicca.

[Midnightwiccan18]

Thankyou for uploading this! faved

[GypsyDancer995]

What makes any of you think you have the right to say who is and who isn't a witch?

[maple1255]

A remarkable, intelligent talk from a man who clearly knows the history of early spiritual practices and how they evolved as time passed, many things I've always wondered about ... thank you for posting :)

[Phunt555]

@IsisPriestess and neither does silver. read the introduction from teenwitch, where she tells the teens to talk about the religion with their parents and to wait to learn if they don't approve.

[Phunt555]

@sagewoman1 that's not true. all of our history is published. Aside from the passing of the old religion between hereditary witches and even some of that is published. Do your research. You're going to find that when you make a statement about such an old system of belief that you need to know what you're talking about in order to be sure you're not wrong.

[ViaNocturna85]

@Phunt555 System of belief? I am slightly confused here...is this system the belief in deities or the practice of witchcraft because they are two seperate things

[caktalfraktal]

fantastic video to show parents 

[ViaNocturna85]

@taomonk10 Silver is not a High Priest, let's face it, anyone who bought her book can call themselves a high priest. Shes just a money maker, nothing more.

[ViaNocturna85]

I'm sorry but this is so inaccurate. Firstly, early man had multiple deities, secondly Wicca was created in the 1900's, there is no magic line that goes down to ancient times. And witchcraft isn't a religion. Wicca may be, but witchcraft isn't. Witchcraft is two words combined, witch and craft. The last word shows it's a craft, like carpenter, stone mason etc. This is a made up story just like the existance of Dorothy Clutterbuck, you only need to read accounts of others that knew him

[Phunt555]

@ViaNocturna85 buckland is merely pointing to the beliefs of nature religions. which you'll find have a lot of similarities to wicca. you need to look up your facts because you are straight out wrong and there's proof. check out aradia gospel of the witches (which although it is a pseudonym, is proof witchcraft's existence before gardner,) or information about the celtic, and briton religions they are very similar and there are spell books which date back to egyptian times.

[ViaNocturna85]

@Phunt555 I do not deny the existence of religions pre-Gardnerian Wicca...BUT we are not talking about religions here...we are talking about witchcraft, that's like saying because there were stonemasons in Egyptian times, it's evidence that there were Freemasons in Egyptian times...unless you accept the fact that Witchcraft is a practice and not a religion you wont get it.

[Phunt555]

@ViaNocturna85 oh and the figures they are showing are real and you can see them in any history class. other tribal religions which have survived today reflect the idea of mother goddess and father god. I know I've seen them call the quarters (which have different elemental attributes depending on their geographical location,) and I've been in their sacred circles, which are cast similar to how we make sacred space over three days time. Don't talk unless you know.

[DeathsHood]

@ViaNocturna85 You.. are an idiot.. Plain and simple..

'Wicca' is the original term, as stated in this video, and hundreds of other sources if you would just take the two minutes to look for them, and 'Witch' stems from the Churches bastardization of the word. 'Witchcraft' is the Churches name for the practicing of magic.

I'm not even a practitioner of Wicca in any form, and I know this.

Although, you know what a wonderful made up story is?

The Bible.

It's full of wondrous, fanciful, bullshit.

[ViaNocturna85]

@DeathsHood If you are implying I am a Christian, you are sadly mistaken...I am a heathen, and practice traditional witchcraft. And feel free to look up the ORIGINAL word used for witch which outdates your 'research' by quite some time, I put it at the top of the comments for you ;-)

[DeathsHood]

@ViaNocturna85 No, no implication. Just saying. If you want a real fairy tale, read that. This, at least, tries to use facts.

You found the dates of MY research.. how.. exactly? I don't remember stating them.

Huh. ORIGINAL word. For witch. You mean the one that no two historians can agree on?

You seem very arrogant in your superiority regarding a subject that is murky at best.

Claiming MY information is wrong, with unproven information, is very poor form.

I'll accept new information, will you?

[MultiDoodool]

Raymond is a great author.

[MultiDoodool]

Firetruck YYYYYYYYOOOOOOOOOUUUUUUU!!!!!!­!!!!!!!!!!!

[DeathsHood]

@MultiDoodool Why are you Firetrucking me?

[missclaritystar]

a young buckland lol thats odd

[tatulover01]

thanks Gwiccan for putting this dvd up , its has been quite inspiring !!

[sridgway51]

good video classic. brought wicca to America

[witchman1]

@taomonk10 Blow me fluffy.

[witchman1]

@taomonk10 Can you suck my ass? Oh shit the bed, you just did and fuck you.

[MrTubalum]

I pat Buckland on the back for his step forward in the modern movement of Pagans and wicca alike. But, in this video he is spouting Margret Murry, no so bad unless you take into account that some of her history is distorted and misinformed. Remember not only was she a non adept on the matter, but she got allot of her information from previous books and ideas published around the turn of the century. Most of which is shown to be disproved. I am a Witch, so don't think i am stirring the cauldron.

[danjensen75]

Thank you Raymond Buckland.

Blessed be

)O(

[MrJasonBkn]

Thanks for these from melbourne australia

[sisryc3]

Thank you Raymond Buckland.

[akurion]

I respect individual beliefs and ideologies. What i criticize is a radicalization of the establishment based on claims of antiquity. When one branch slams another on account of very subjective proof, it becomes clear that, what once was a diverse and dynamic ideological system, becomes secularized (To draw away from religious orientation; make worldly.) For commercial reasons, which kills any individual spirituality in favor of hierarchical leadership, indoctrination, evangelization.

[PandoraKyss]

@akurion Well said. I agree, actually.

[witchman1]

@akurion You dear boy talk alot of shit.

[witchman1]

BTW Ray has history with us. Nuff said. You slam him, you slam me. Put em up, put em up.

[PandoraKyss]

@witchman1 No one has slammed him, at least I didn't. I've only just recently, finally, began reading his 'Big Blue Book,' and I enjoy it. I cannot blame him or any author for citing now disproven historical sources like Murray or Frazer; I only blame an author when they ignore that and continue to cite them. But Buckland's not bad. It's not DJ Conway, heh.

[akurion]

That's the point, to pretend to grant it more importance, for religions and institutional reasons is preposterous. I respect your position of it's validity due to social reasons, not it's validity based on authors, and a belief system which has become a ridiculous occultist establishment.

[witchman1]

@akurion You have made your statements current on the beliefs of fluff bunnies and self proclaimed authors, published or not. The craft has never been social, okay that being said, I'm sorry to say the craft is so political and social these days, makes me think I'm at a baptisit upbringing. There are very few of us that still have the connection in transmition, ok yes I dont spell good, fuck the gramer police. I wish you to be an insider, to give you the oral tradition to give answers. Alas.

[PandoraKyss]

@akurion All things become an establishment as some point. Attempts to market the 'underground,' various things watered down with people using it for money. But I won't discount Wicca as a whole based on the few bad authors out there; I am not Wiccan simply because I don't feel a closeness to it as a whole, nor do I feel a need to be initiated. But there are some good ideas in 'Public Wicca' that I do apply in my own life. Specifically, their view on a God and a Goddess. That resonates with me.

[akurion]

"Wicca is not even 100 years old it was formed in the early 1950's by gardener and witches are not bound by the laws of wicca." Jpj226, on "Raymond Buckland - Witchcraft: Yesterday and Today"

I concur with this point, made earlier in this thread. What we are seeing now is Buckland's "Saturation Point", mentioned in the video. Ironically, now applied by the occult establishment of Wicca, to it's dissidents. Again a sad attempt at personal validation.

[witchman1]

@akurion What we do as Gardnerians is nothing close to what buckland is refering to, nor 'any' of the fluff bunny opinions and authors. Folks have tried since the re-emergence of the craft to make claims. Every single goddam claim about how or what Gardner did is Here say, gossip or plain out right lies. And the Hutton. kelly, Valenite, silver raven douche bags rate neck-n-neck. As initiated Gardnerians we have whats refered to as an oral tradition. The real story. Plain-simple.

[PandoraKyss]

@witchman1 And I'll also admit, I can't possibly know anything of that because I've never stepped foot into a Gardnerian circle. Most of what we outsiders know is probably hearsay; but it never interested me much, honestly. I practice Witchcraft as my spirituality, as a way of living in this world. I'm too much of an outsider to be involved in such a committed group, as I am too committed to myself.

[PandoraKyss]

@akurion In fact, most authors today have relented the myth of an ancient Wicca in favor of historical facts. People have realized that, history or not, Wicca works for many people. It offers something; and those true seekers of spirit are the ones who matter. Even the teenagers of The Craft phase are coming of age.

[witchman1]

@PandoraKyss No, teenagers suck the pipe, one who seeks true learning needs to be at 'LEAST' 25 years of age. Go figure. Teenagers might work in Silver Raven tard, but not ina Gardnerian coven. And BTW, for all the gaytards who read Gardner was a homo hater. Go kill blue people, you know you hate em. Our and many other covens are 90% gay. Just so happens, they understand: Balence. Kids do 'not' know what there path is at such an early age. Gardnerian? Be ready to get your ass kicked!

[PandoraKyss]

@witchman1 I myself am twenty-seven, and I don't believe that age itself denotes a lack of or a sign of maturity or knowledge. But I'll admit that I lack the patience for most teenagers involved with the Craft because it so often smacks of a 'phase.' And I am also gay, and the heterosexual overtones are understandable in Wicca - fertility and all - but the lack of honor for the role we play always irked me. That all being said, I do believe that we can be 'called' into something.

[akurion]

Witchman1, i am contesting is the validity of ahistorical claims of the aforementioned authors. Not the existence of wicca as a commercial institution, that, like all human colectives, edits history to suits it's grand claims of validity. I am sure believers in the occult have existed always, in all manners. The authors so gravely defended here, are recent and lacking in any sort of academic credibility. Gardner is, to history, a charlatan.

[witchman1]

@akurion Gardner gave the craft a re-birth, and was credited for that. Many have tried to claim the same and failed. Gardner didnt create anythng, the media named his followers Gardnerian. Gardner always refered to 'it' as the Craft. Wica. Not this wicca bullshit.

[PandoraKyss]

@akurion It depends on which side of the fence one straddles. To some, yes, Gardner was a charlatan; to others, he was a genius, having formulated a religion which has not only outlived him but has grown. The authors mentioned here are only historians who attempted to offer a timeline of events. Occult authors who still maintain that Wicca itself is a generations old religion are, in short, lying. Witchcraft and the occult has been around; Wicca only utilizes it on a religious framework.

[witchman1]

Okay. first off, you and you know who you are , diset Ray, he is in my linage, yes I am a linaged witch of the Gardnerian craft, I and others of many do not tolerate, oath breakers and liars and fluff bunnie posts. You have 'NOT' been made a witch and do not know the 'Inside' of the craft. That being said, my HPS will kick my ass! As I have said, you fluffy's WILL fade in time, kiss my ass and smell my ass. Thank you.

[PandoraKyss]

@witchman1 Correction. I do not need to be made a witch. I'd tolerate the point that one needs initiation to be a Wiccan. I really don't care much about your lineage, your title, your degree, your heirloom Book of Shadows, your grandmother's possible traditions, and so on and so forth. Your inability to separate Wicca and witchcraft not withstanding, I am a witch. Wicca is a religion. Witchcraft is a practice. To some they are the same, but not to everyone. And not to me.

[witchman1]

@PandoraKyss Many are called, few are chosen. You dear boy are in the many. I have zero inability to separate the differance. There is no differance. You are and always will be a fluff bunny. Have fun with that.

[PandoraKyss]

@witchman1 Yes, yes, yes. Typical holier-than-thou attitude. Go be self-righteous somewhere else. And take your idiocy with you; it's stinking up the place.

[witchman1]

@PandoraKyss It's idiots like you that brain wash young peoples minds with your asshole opinions. The craft is what it is. Not what you want it to be. I hope I crapped in your mouth a little.

[PandoraKyss]

@witchman1 Look, let's be grown up. I am not pushing anything of what I 'want it to be,' I was only recommending a book and you flew off the handle with a defense and hurled accusations at me. Why? I am not talking about the Craft in general; I am talking about Wicca as it stands today. I will readily say that the Craft has been around, in some form; I will say that Gardner based his Wica/Wicca on earlier ideas and traditions. But Wicca, as the religion it is now, was not around before Gardner.

[witchman1]

@PandoraKyss First thing, I am a grown-up. Anything hutton makes me wup my cookies. The craft as it stands today in the hands of fluff bunnies and so called self proclaimed scholars make me shit the bed. One thing, get this please, wicca as it is now known, is no way shape or form related to Gardnerian craft, Gardnerian craft is the first, origanal, yes anal, and first ever of 'it's' kind. And you are correct wicca was not around befor GBG, Alex sanders coined the term wicca.

[akurion]

Aidan Kelly, another inventor (pun here, as his book was called "Inventing Witchcraft: A Case Study in the Creation of a new Religion") of modern religions. Interestingly enough, Witchman1, Hutton was a supporter of Kelly. Historically, neither have any validity. Neither does Gardner, Leland, Grimassi, nor Tartarotti, Magliocco, or Ginzburg. Kelly, 1960's, no historical validity whatsoever.

[PandoraKyss]

@akurion There's nothing wrong with admitting and embracing that what we are doing is a new evolutionary idea, instead they call up dead religions which really don't cater to present mankinds needs.

[witchman1]

@akurion None the less, we are here and always have been.

[witchman1]

AT what time will the craft stop being a fad to you retards. That will be the day I stop telling you fluff bunnies to fuck off.

[PandoraKyss]

@witchman1 As much as I might regret this, what have I said that would imply that I am a fluff bunny? I'm not offended; I think it's actually amusing and almost nostalgic to be called a bunny, seeing as I was one eleven years ago. But yeah, I'm curious. And as my user name might suggest, curiosity is my weakness.

[PandoraKyss]

Thanks for posting!

[witchman1]

@PandoraKyss Are you shitting me? Hutton? He is part of reason I hate everyone of you stinkin ass fluff bunnies. What do you know of secrecy? You have a mouth like an alligator and an ass like a rabbit. And yes I am obviously not taught by a family tard or a tard coven, you are right there. And where in the fuck did you get 'control' from? Seems like you are trying at best to control this post! Please, stick your self up your tight ass and go away. Hutton, lmao, try Kelly, bitch.

[PandoraKyss]

@witchman1 Just, wow. I'm not even sure of what to say to your diatribe or if it even dignifies a formal response. I will say this, though; it's folks of your ilk that make the occult look like a hodge-podge collection of mad people doing mad things while chanting mad words. Even Eris(Hail!) frowns upon you.

[witchman1]

@PandoraKyss LMAO are you kidding me? Hutton? Try Kelly, that would show your age a little better. Fucking Fluff bunny.

[Jpj226]

wicca is not interchangeable with witchcraft, you made absolutely everything you say unreliable in under 2 minutes and wicca is not even 100 years old it was formed in the early 1950's by gardener and witches are not bound by the laws of wicca. cite your sources.

[witchman1]

@Jpj226 You have to 12 years old with a simple minded statement like that. FYI 'wica' not 'wicca' was not and never was 'formed'. < thats a period for your simple minded ass! Gardner did not 'form' anything. And what the fuck would you know about the laws of the craft? If you are not from the inside, SHUT the Fuck UP. And 'OH' If I offended you in any way, here is my appology to you....FUCK YOU!

[PandoraKyss]

@witchman1 Read Hutton's "Triumph of the Moon," that's all I'm going to say.

[Jpj226]

@witchman1 I am sorry the truth upsets you so much. even the slightest bit of research could show you that what I have said is true. I looked this mans books up as well and they certainly dont assist his credibility. the "facts" in his book are drastically incorrect and have no historical evidence, along with that the books are on such a rainbow of topics there would be no to have mastered all these traditions in one life time; and that is with completely ignoring the strict rules of secrecy

[Jpj226]

@witchman1 (part 2) and as Pandorakyss said read "Triumph of the Moon" a general good rule to buying books on witchcraft (since you are clearly not taught by family or a trad coven) is don't buy a book made after 1970, there are some exceptions obviously but very few.i wish you luck and leave you with advice to control yourself, how can one control whats outside of them, if he or she cannot control what is inside of his or her self.

[PandoraKyss]

@Jpj226 In truth, I am not even sure his words are worth intelligent or thought-out responses. Don't waste your time. I'm not saying that Hutton is infallible, but he's a refreshing step above most of what had been published and has inspired others to write a more realistic history - One of Bonewits' recent books references Hutton while still applying some ideas of a medieval witchcraft.

[Jpj226]

@PandoraKyss its sad but people like witchman1 seem to be the poster for the occult world to most people. *shrug* let him think what he will maybe hell grow out of his rudeness and ignorance. he certainly cant think that cussing at us and calling us names will sway anyone in his favor. oh well best wishes to you all :) pandora message me and let me know if you have anything interesting :) video or book etc on witchcraft :) 

[PandoraKyss]

@Jpj226 Exactly. I love a good swearing session, but it does not often lend any credibility to my points. And I agree, but every lifestyle, culture, et cetera, has their respective stereotypes. What sort of information are you looking for? My favorite book is probably 'Witchcraft - Theory and Practice' by Ly De Angeles. Most recently read Stewart and Janet Farrer's 'Witches Bible,' not bad. I've a few videos in my YouTube favorites that might interest you.

[Jpj226]

@PandoraKyss The videos are more what I'm looking for books tend to find their way to wicca, to which I am vastly uninterested in.

[PandoraKyss]

@Jpj226 Well I think it's because Wicca was one of the first incarnations of Witchcraft that many people came into contact with, myself included. A lot of Wicca's teachings and ideas have remained in my life, but I do enough things differently that I don't feel that the Wiccan label best describes me. But that being said, you should be able to find a few videos that do not involve Wicca, or at least not that much.

[witchman1]

Bout time someone posted something sensible on the craft. Thanks tons. And good job. BB.