Brian Orser (CAN) - 1988 Calgary, Men's Long Program

[1814Brandan]

I'm not a fan of Orser's music in this program, but he's got magic feet.

[nwsausuke1]

Footwork-Orser.

Everything else-Boitano.

Orser kinda looked like Plushenko from last year's olympics. Stuff was landed but it looked ugly in the air.

[mlc2005]

I'll never understand why he didn't go for the second triple Axle, as he did later at Worlds, especially since he had the slight mess-up on the flip. If you want to see this done to total perfection, check out his 1988 Worlds long.

[3Axel1996]

@mlc2005 As I remember, I think in another interview, he said he was starting to feel a little tired and didn't want to take a chance of falling, which was why he doubled it.

[iceskaterrn]

@mlc2005 Orser also checked with someone in his camp to see how many 3A's Boitano did, and he misunderstood and thought it was only 1. That's why he seems so confident skating, then in total disbelief when he saw he only got silver. I read he went into the dressing room/bathroom all the men shared right after this, and Boitano was there and was very gracious to him.

[madaboutdanny]

I don't want to be rude, but this program isn't so good to me. He was bad in the air, was slow, the music wasn't epic, not to mention the ugly costume, Boitano was much better.

[MultiRazorb]

@madaboutdanny: I've always thought this music was so... ponderous and heavy. While I like Orser as a competitor, I think Boitano was much more connected to his music and it really showed.

[indiatree]

People say that several judges "tied" the skaters. Technically that is true, but the judges knew what the tiebreaker rules were. So they knew exactly what they were doing and to which skater he or she was giving the first place ordinal to when they say gave Boitano a 5.9/5.8 and Orser a 5.8/5.9.

[victoriaindigo]

Awesome program, brilliant!

[10Dec1971]

Sounds like he said '"Shit" around 7:43.

[trav16z]

I would have never had Orser ahead of Boitaino even if Orser landed that flip clean. Boitano was so much better of a skater imo.

[jhm]

I just cannot imagine the pressure and how you deal with it even after watching men's & ladies world & Olympic figure skating for the past 40 years.

[jhm]

I just wonder the outcome under the 'new' scoring system ... Brian you had many US fans who were pulling for you that night and were so disappointed. If only Dick Button had been right ... That it would not have made the difference. It is hard to believe this was 20+ years ago. 3Axel1996 thank you for posting these.

[will74lsn]

rather poor sit position

[indiatree]

@will74lsn Yeah....you are not supposed to be bent over at the waist like that.

[cdnserbluvr]

Gosh, I love that opening move when the music halts and he nails that triple lutz. Gives me chills

[premierrules]

Oh Mr Santee - give the poor fella a chance to get his breath back and go back stage before you tell him he came 2nd! Do you really think he needed a feedback on the Flip and 2nd Axel so very soon after finding out he had been defeated? Poor timing David but great viewing I am sure!

[Parker528]

In the 2010 version of "The Complete Book of the Winter Olympics" by David Wallechinsky, the very respected author wrote this for the mens comptetion: "According to the rules at the time, the judges were given the option of breaking ties, based on the criterion of their choice. In this case, both judges who had scored the Brians evenly chose the score for technical merit as their tiebreaker. As both had awarded Boitano higher for technical merit, he ended up winning 5-4."  I hope this helps.

[3Axel1996]

@Parker528 The tie was only in the LP, and was broken by the skater with the higher Technical Merit marks awarded by the judges who tied the skaters. Therefore, Boitano was awarded the 1st Place ordinal for the LP, Orser 2nd. 1st Place Ordinal = 1.0 factored placement; 2nd Place Ordinal = 2.0 factored placement, etc.

[Parker528]

@3Axel1996 Thank you. That was a great explanation. I see exactly what I was not understanding before.

[3Axel1996]

@Parker528 After the 1988 season, the 1st tiebreaker used for the Long Program became the higher Artistic Impression mark, not the Technical.

[Parker528]

@3Axel1996 Yes I had heard about the tie breaker change for after 1988. Thanks for your help. Scoring for ice skating is incredibly complex, even now, heh?

[3Axel1996]

@Parker528 Well, they knew the skater with the higher technical merit mark would win the tiebreaker. If they chose to give Orser a lower technical merit mark but a higher artistic impression mark, then those judges knew they wanted to place Boitano in 1st Place.

[Parker528]

@3Axel1996 Gotcha. Thank you.

[3Axel1996]

@Parker528 The judges knew how to mark accordingly as judges were never allowed to tie skaters at all.

[Parker528]

@3Axel1996 Wait that makes no sense. If they could NEVER tie a skater, why have a tie-breaker system in use at all, with details of the priorities of importance in breaking a tie in the first place. Are you saying they were never allowed to tie skaters ONLY back then, or then AND now? Just so I understand what you're educating me with, when you say the judges can't have tie, is that only in the LP or SP, or only for the final ordinal placement (during the old 6.0 scoring days obviously).

[Parker528]

@3Axel1996 I'll wait for your reply and explanation, but if the judges were not allowed to tie, I am thinking you mean as the overall winner of the event....right? You don't mean to say they couldn't score a tie in let's say, the LP, b/c you stated above that the judges had in fact a tie that was broken b/c of the technical mark. Thank you.

[Parker528]

The 'tano triple is just awesome, but Orser's 3lutz here is, in my mind outstanding. Great height. Reminds me of the height Midori Ito got in her 3lutz in her LP at same Olympics. In the Vancouver Olympic coverage of the "Battle of the Brian's", Boitano comments that he later told Orser he thought it was Orser's best ever 3lutz.

[Parker528]

@TheWhatsinaname  Now I am confused, or not recalling correctly how Dick Button explained to Jim McKay on how Boitano won, regarding the tie. I watched the entire night on tape so much that I broke the tape, so I can't go back & verify, but I recall Dick stating that at least on his scorecard, two judges tied both Brian's, the Swiss & the Danish judges; that they were given the choice of which marks to use in breaking the tie. And that both used technical merit. Did I misunderstand? Thanks.

[johnxmalice]

he said "shit" at 7:43

[3Axel1996]

@TheWhatsinaname I think it was the outcome of this competition which led to the discussion about making a change to the tiebreaker system.

[Parker528]

@3Axel1996 @TheWhatsinaname What exactly was changed in tie breakers after '88? Am I right that in '88, judges with a tie btwn skaters had the choice of how to break the tie, be it technical or artistic mark. I read that in '88, two judges each tied both Brian's, and BOTH broke the ties with the technical mark. But what WERE they tied in? Cumulative from figures, SP, AND LP, or JUST LP? My thinking it was that the tie was from the LP only. YES? How are ties now broken?

[ja3399]

@3Axel1996 Yes, Axel, I agree re tiebreaker system. Two great skaters, and I like both, for different reasons. How bitter/sweet for Brian Orser to sit with Yu-Na in kiss-and-cry, so many years later. Joy, but also feelings of failure. We can rightfully criticize the old judging system, but the new one is nothing to be proud of, IMHO. Anonymity in judging is not a good thing, in my not-so-HO. Nevertheless, Yu-Na is a skater for the ages.  Thanks Axel...Take care.

[3Axel1996]

@TheWhatsinaname 1st tiebreaker back then was the skater with the higher Technical Merit marks. The next season they changed the tiebreaker for the Long Program/Free Skate to the skater with the higher Artistic Impression marks. Had this change been in effect in the 1987-88 season, Orser would have been Olympic Champion.

[ohioweatherguy]

@3Axel1996 While it's certainly possible that an earlier change to the tie break rule would have given Orser the gold over Boitano, it's hard to say for certain. Each judge knew who they were giving their 1st & 2nd place ordinals to when they scored Orser. The five judges who placed Boitano 1st may have felt he deserved the gold regradless of the tie breaker in place. If that's the case, they would have simply adjusted their marks for Orser to ensure their 1st place ordinals went to Boitano.

[Parker528]

@ohioweatherguy I am so confused. Did the tiebreaker actually occur once Orser's marks were scored? I was informed that two judges that night tied the two Brian's and that those judges had to decide between technical merit and artistry marks in breaking the tie, and that both judges chose technique. How would they go about breaking the tie? Do they post the marks for Orser, and at same time, enter the ordinals? I don't know much about this but am trying to learn. Thank you.

[barkingtree88]

I would have punched him for shoving the microphone in my face like that!

[Parker528]

This video is awesome quality! Much better than the one You Tube recently removed!

[mlc2005]

brilliant program no doubt! One thing though: The choreography seems to have nothing to do with the idea of him being a soldier. Perhaps I missed something here.

That triple lutz was STUNNING though, and his edging is second to none, truly. Right up there with Scott Hamilton's, and I haven't seen it duplicated since by the men.

Boitano deservedly won that night, but frankly, I thought that Orser should have won in 84.

[MTVMANN]

I hate it when people are so P.C. all the time, but I am SO GLAD that they don't interview the skaters in the "Kiss and Cry" right after a performance. It just seems wrong and robs them of something.

However, I didn't know about the two being tied. Very interesting to know that...especially when you think of other times that happened, like in 1994 with Bauil and Kerrigan.