The Founding Fathers Didn't Want Gay Marriage

[adrinamorones]

it wasnt a big deal and contrversy back then all the presidents up to abe lincoln smoked canabis and opiuts have been a big secret part of u.s echonomy even back then :D

[420squeeg]

I take it the "force people to swear upon the Qur'an," part was somehow a jab at the current president? You're an ignorant douche. If you can point to a time Americans have EVER been legally FORCED to swear upon any religious book, I will take this back.

[Saikano2012]

BEHOLD! THE SUMMIT OF MT. DUMBASS! Stupid Conservative jackasses.

[scajk29]

So I'm assuming you travelled back in time and personally asked the Founding Fathers about their views on gay marriage?

[hartshornguy]

what song or who plays the intro in the video?

[freatork1]

"...laws and institutions must go hand in hand with the progress of the human mind... as that becomes more developed, more enlightened, as new discoveries are made, institutions must advance also, to keep pace with the times.... We might as well require a man to wear still the coat which fitted him when a boy

as civilized society to remain forever under the regimen of their barbarous ancestors." - Thomas Jefferson.

[jaymthegenius]

Considering that the founders persecuted the rightful inhabitants of America (i.e., the Native Americans), "owned" human beings, heavily tax farmers, not pay the veterans of the American revolution, severe whiskey taxes, only allowing certain people to vote, not contain any checks against cartelism (gee, I wonder why?) the Christians can keep them.

[Jeremy1281988]

As for gay marriage, I would think the founding fathers would tell the government to stay the hell away from that, that it is not their business. It should be left to the states.

And DOMA (Defense of Marriage Act) is unconstitutional, as studied in plenty of political science classes. If a state doesn't want gay marriage, then fine. If another wants it, then fine as well.

Just like cell phones and cars and all that, the founding fathers probably couldn't comprehend gay marriage.

[TheEuhemerus]

You said so yourself that the you do not know much about the founders and it is clear that you do not, nor do you know anything about what this country has been founded upon. I know a great deal about the founders as a American Historian particularly, Thomas Jefferson, John Adams and Madison. I suggest you read the many books that are out there that outline the intent of these Gentlemen. Please stay away from the books and rhetoric of the Bartons and the Becks. They are not scholars.

[ToxicOdiousOne]

The founding fathers were not communists and did not want this nation to become a casualty of the domino theory.

[gobes1975]

I don't need a second to think about it. The Founding Fathers knew how religion warps minds, that's why they went to great lengths to exclude religion. Thomas Paine is a good example, if you would like to start somewhere with your research: you clearly haven't started it yet.

[cosplayavenger]

i know for a fact the ben franklin and TJ wanted it

[ToxicOdiousOne]

George Washington did not. Thomas Jefferson was a collectivist progressive a real enemyof America. I question Jefferson's patriotism. Dissent is unamerican when rebellion against the social order is a common element.

[vaasnaad]

@ToxicOdiousOne Oh, man, I haven't laughed that hard in a while! One of the seminal architects of what this country is all about was an enemy of the thing he founded because of the progressive principles he founded it upon! You are truly, truly stupid.

[dubya68]

hey douche, they wanted freedom. They probably didn't want the government to give out free things, but they didn't want the government to push a Christian-theocratic government onto the people.

[hustletv]

lol Yes

[imanerd36]

Ben Franklin would have loved the free condoms, he was quite a ladies man in history. Thomas Jefferson also had lots of kids with many different woman(many of which were his slaves.) I think the founding fathers would have been fine with gays, and women with short hair, they didn't care what didn't affect them.

I don't think the did however like the Christians shoving their religion down peoples throats, read the Treaty of Tripoli.

[xDoIIPartsx]

Do you think anyone cares?

[sicktoaster]

The Founding Fathers weren't saints.

They were just looking out for their class interests.

"The Founders said so" is not a good reason for anything.

[jesteinat]

I think the founding fathers wanted to rid themselves from the unjust laws of the british government and would support people making there own desicions for what they want with there own life. unfortunatly people like you seem to prefer a nation of mindless zombies then free thinking humans.

[rancantrell]

Know I don't.

[uglybob69]

I was trying to do research on if the founding fathers ever mentioned homosexuality in their writing and I somehow ended up here.

Any idiot can come to conclusions based on gut feelings, but a true man of reason has an opinion informed by facts and thoughtful consideration. You're a disgrace to the conservative movement in this country.

I suggest you do some research on the founding fathers. Read their letters, memoirs and even autobiographies. Ignorance doesn't help your case.

[cowlark2000]

"Just think about it." Nice arguments. You must be a philosophy major.

But I guess then you wouldn't be stuck in the conservative loop would you...

[SemperServiam]

Is marriage a right? Of course. It was ordained by God at the creation of human life. Marriage is a right, just like free speech, firearms, petition, assembly, religion, and security.

Are all men created equal? Of course. Our Declaration of Independence and Constitution depend on this fact.

If then, all men are created equal and marriage is a right, why isn't marriage a right for all men?

Stop thinking like a conservative and start thinking like an American.

[SemperServiam]

Many will answer, gay people do have a right to marry the opposite sex. However, gays still remain unequal in this case.

Heterosexuals can marry who they are attracted to; who they love. Homosexuals, however, have to marry someone they can't possibly love that way or be celibate. That is not equal rights.

What did the Founding Fathers want? Equality.

[SemperServiam]

Oh, and homosexuality isn't a sin, in case that was your next defense. I can prove that if you like, but not here. This comment limit is ridiculous.

[SemperServiam]

As far as it goes politically, though, we aren't talking about what you think the Bible says. We aren't talking about what you think the Qur'an says. We're not talking about what you were taught in Church or at school or by your parents. We aren't even talking about your political opinions.

We are talking about freedom. Liberty. Equality. If we let the equal rights of citizens depend on mere opinion, America would have been dead years ago.

[SemperServiam]

Contrary to popular opinion, America was never meant to be a democracy. We are a Constitutional Republic. All men are equal no matter what. Same rights, same liberties. Not even a 99% vote can take those freedoms away.

In a pure democracy, the people are only as free as the majority allows. In America, majority only rules when freedom and equality are accounted for.

As they say, "You cannot have 5 wolves and a sheep vote on what's for dinner."

[tasti1]

first of all, who would give away free heroin? the drug dealer would just lose marginal profit. secondly, condoms are actually in support of your cause. if you didnt wear condoms, girls get pregnant and then would have to get abortions(if they choose). just think about that for one second! just one second! JUST ONE SECOND!!! thanks.

[tecjohnson]

Pt II: As that becomes more developed, more enlightened, as new discoveries are made, new truths discovered and manners and opinions change, with the change of circumstances, institutions must advance also to keep pace with the times. We might as well require a man to wear still the coat which fitted him when a boy as civilized society to remain ever under the regimen of their barbarous ancestors." --Thomas Jefferson

[tecjohnson]

"I am not an advocate for frequent changes in laws and constitutions, but laws and institutions must go hand in hand with the progress of the human mind.

[ikerzgrove]

What the hell makes you THINK for one moment that the US was a Christian nation or that the prominent founders were Christians! Most founding fathers were atheists, deists, enlightened men, and FREETHINKERS(also known as people wil brains and rationality).

Amendment 1 talks about the seperation of church and state... that also includes God as a religious figure(esp. in legislation)

[tasti1]

speaking of morality.....didnt Ben Franklin frequently indulge in sex orgies?

[lexnevcity]

All the founding fathers wanted is the will of the people to prevail. They asked, do the people support having a choice between X and Y? They wouldn't care if "X" or "Y" were more morally to their liking. They were very black and white on this.  Your rhetorical questions indicate you're trying to leverage founding principles you don't fully grasp. Maybe post a video about how you and someone you disagree with reached an agreement on how to co-exist. The Founding Fathers would prefer that.

[Beeirish1965]

Part I

The majority of people in this country want others to always do the right thing. Why is God talked/written about throughout the Constitution,our laws, the way we should behave towards each other?Our leaders of the states wanted a strong & fair national government. But they also wanted to protect individual freedoms & prevent the government from abusing its power.

[overmind25]

The word God is not written once in the Constitution.

[Beeirish1965]

Part 2 as its central act the blessing of the congregation with the Eucharistic Host. A verbal blessing of persons or things, commonly applied to invocations pronounced in Gods name by a priest or minister, usually at the conclusion of a religious service. 2) the Aaronic benediction (Num. 6:2426) was incorporated by Luther into his German Mass and is preserved by modern Lutherans because of its impressive dignity; it is also used in the Mozarabic liturgy of Spain before the reception of

[mrw12311]

@overmind25 They used Judeo-Christian morality as the basis for our governing documents.  Learn our real heritage, and quit spouting uninformed liberal socialist college professor BS. Grow up.

[Jeremy1281988]

@mrw12311 You are an idiot. This isn't a left or right thing so stop making it that. It just shows how uneducated you are.

Here is the treaty with Tripoli, submitted by John Adams to the Senate in 1797 and was ratified.

[Jeremy1281988]

@mrw12311

As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.

There u go

[Jeremy1281988]

@mrw12311 I mean Thomas Jefferson's initial wall of separation between church and state was FAR stronger than it is nowadays.

The founding Father's religion had very little to do with the constitution (intentionally). Don't blindly listen to revisionists like Glenn Beck who claims he supports the founders. Just like big government, Beck only supports it if it fits in with his views.

[mrw12311]

@Jeremy1281988 I haven't listened to more than 5 minutes of beck, and that was just once. He is a liberal. He believes in man made global warming.

[Beeirish1965]

Part 1 Yes, in the literal sense of the word written down the Constitution but in the first sentence of the Constitution the word Blessings. As you are well aware this nation was built on Judeo-Christian principles in mind. 2 examples of the word Blessing from the dictionary: 1) the Roman Catholic Church benediction commonly means a blessing of persons (e.g., the sick) or objects (e.g., religious articles). Benediction of the Blessed Sacrament, a no liturgical devotional service, has

[Al572]

Where is the evidence?

[Beeirish1965]

Part 3 the Host. The Swedish liturgy appends a Trinitarian formula to this same benediction. Some Christian churches, however, prefer the Pauline benediction (II Cor. 13:14). To conclude I also mentioned, Throughout the Constitution, our laws, and . I guess I should have spelled it out The Declaration of Independence.

[odiumdelight]

Do you think he wanted you bigoting you upon others?

Jefferson wrote to Ben Franklin: "There will be those p*ss*nts who will want to urinate over everyone else's freedoms and in that doing will use the very document that decrees freedom. To impede any attempt to do so, those who seek to take away the rights of others shall then have those same rights seized from them forthwith."

Think about this,

If abortion was illegal,

many women would try it themselves,

and then die. btw you tick me off

[Beeirish1965]

Part II

They believed they could do this by having three separate branches of government: the executive, the legislative & the judicial.This separation is described in the first three articles, or sections, of the Constitution.

No, Founding Fathers(FF) didn't want bigoted hearts. FF's didn't want Supreme Court to have too much power, slavery the law of the land. FF's didn't want us to kill the unborn & innocent along with have anyones race, sexual orient,... to receive special treatment.

[fede2]

it's rediculous. america was not founded on "christian principles". at least not explicitly.

[billottte]

The Founding Fathers were by and large afraid to challenge slavery. No need to say more.

[shas1814]

The founding fathers wanted

equality, liberty, and justice for all.

Sounds like a great basis for gay marriage to me!

[Zenith7796]

Firstly, abortion was perfectly legal at the time. Secondly, yes they would want gay marriage because the state should not regulate such nor should the public be allowed to strip the rights of a minority group (Federalist Paper #10). And I like how you use ad hominem attacks to prove your point. You use no data, statistics, or works by the founding fathers to prove your point. You yourself even stated that your knowledge of the founding fathers wasn't that good.

[glenbobhamburg]

Let me "think upon this for a second:"

1. the founding fathers kept slaves

2. they denied women, the poor and racial minorities equal citizenship

3. they tolerated and financed the massacre of the Native Americans

4. they occasionally engaged in piracy off the Eastern Seaboard

5. they brewed alcohol and had their slaves grow tobacco and hemp

6. they were members of the Masons, a secretive group charged at the time for secret homosexual activity

Just think about that for a second.

[mrw12311]

@glenbobhamburg You are painting with a very wide brush. You are very misinformed, by the way. You should learn your real heritage, and be proud of it. There were many founding fathers very much against slavery. Look up what happened in Jamestown when the first slave ship came to America.

How long do you think a country will last if the people keep having such negative thoughts about its past? There are alot more inspirational stories about our heritage than evil ones. Grow up.

[AldinTheMad]

"He [Lincoln] was an avowed and open infidel, and sometimes bordered on atheism. He went further against Christian beliefs and doctrines and principles than any man I have ever heard"-John T. Stuart

"Lighthouses are more helpful than churches"-Ben Franklin "Christianity neither is, nor ever was, a part of the Common Law"-Jefferson

"Gouverneur Morris had often told me that General Washington believed no more of that system [Christianity] than did he himself."-Jefferson (private journal Feb. 1800)

[commandercool612]

You know nothing about history or the founding fathers you dumb shit.

Oh P.S. abortion was legal back then.

[N0vaR0ma]

dont u think the Founding Fathers are masons and they want to folow the path of satan?

[reluctantlydancing]

"Clipped haired liberal dikes"?

-.-;

Yes. I think that the founding fathers wanted FREEDOM for all, not narrow minded bull shit.

Hell most of them denounced Christianity as a corrupt hypocritical religion full of bull shit. Jefferson said that nearly all Christians fit into 2 categories: Fools and Hypocrites.

Jefferson was a drunk . Hamilton very well could have been a gay. Washington owned Slaves

So do some research. The founding fathers weren't Gods. They also weren't close minded bigots

[tranzadikt]

do YOU think that anyone cares about your narrow minded, christian neo-con oriented views.

We're in the 21st century. Anyone that has a brain will think for themselves, rather than relying on some century old guide to self enslavement, aka the bible

:)

[snowbored84]

No logic in this video. Try researching to make a factual video next time...

[hartshornguy]

also my ancestors didn't die at andersonville prison during the civil war so that blacks can bitch and moan about "whitey" oweing "reperations" to blacks because of slavery. they owe me money and they should pay other familys for freeing them.

[Belle19700]

You know, I have to agree with you. I do not think our founding fathers created this country so we can hand it over to God only knows who. Have you seen the immigration statistics? The immigrants are all immigrating to white majority countries, and then they hate or dislike us for varioius reasons. What happened to integrating and appreciating? What happened to "you have to learn English?" What did our soldiers die for in WWII? This? Oh no! I am disgusted with this country right now, and scared.

[hartshornguy]

your exaclty right, even public education was created in part to americanize the new waves of immigrants and give them a decent education now thats down the shitter. i personally can not fight for this country because i do not want to defend these maniacs that hate me even when im defending them from barbarians at the gates. its exaclty what cicero talked about when he said about the enemy with in. i will fight and die for america when its for america not the perverts and the wackos.

[Belle19700]

If I were a man, I would go to Canada if I were drafted right now. Many are. Now we know the vietnam war "was" bullshit, and many died over there, or went nuts when they came home, and for what? Nobody knows. Oh, my personal favorite, "muslim marines." Can you imagine? How they gonna deal with that when a draft comes? I wouldn't harm anyone unless severly provoked, but I'll tell you, whites are right now being discriminated against. It's going to get worse. I am becoming very disallusioned.

[reluctantlydancing]

Immigration stats? This is a country of immigrants. Unless you're a Native American, you have no place to be bitching about immigrants.

[hartshornguy]

were all native americans because if you were born here then your a native american. my family came over here on the mayflower and were the first westeners to settle here, how long has your low gene pool been here in america? immigrants have to assimilate into our culture not us breaking our backs to accept their's.

[reluctantlydancing]

Hell, the illegal immigrants who pick our crops probably speak more English than you do Spanish.

[hartshornguy]

i know spainish because i am spanish, not mexican or cuban im spainish from europe. im fluente in it. to make kids learn spanish because we allow them illegally is a crime and its wrong. i shouldn't have to know spanish because these ignorant boobs break our laws and demand a goverment hand out because they are here.

[reluctantlydancing]

You misspelled the word fluent.

[shas1814]

"This is a country of immigrants."

It certainly is.

And have you ever read the inscription on the statue of Liberty?

We actually used to be proud of that,

to point to it as representative of our national identity.

How far we have fallen.

Now it's all about greed, hate, and "security."

Very sad.

[Scorch251]

we took the land and bought it its ours now. so you're saying anybody can come into this country without geting IDs social security numbers etc and its ok?They

[reluctantlydancing]

Did I say that? No. But we are a country of immigrants. This hostile isolationism is ridiculous.

[hartshornguy]

hey ted where did you get the irish music?

[overpaidrockstar1]

You know they left the constitution of us to decide.

But I guarandamntee that they didnt see this coming or want this

[evilblades]

why are americans so obsessed about the constitution and founding fathers?.

some of the minor points can be changed...

hell, norways original constitution from 1814 specifically banned jews within the borders of norway.

besides, there were abortions on that time.

ben franklin was a druggie, though a brilliant one.

the constitution was anti religion, so you shouldnt swear on ANY religious document.

they wanted the freedom to do as they saw fit.

[hartshornguy]

uh first off they were not druggies by any means because they also wanted to outlaw cafeine and tobacco too as a drug. also our country was founded on the bliefe that our rights were God given not by man or king. also its freedom of religion not from religion. without recongnizing that religion in america's founding is ignoring the whole base rock of our country and how it operates.

[evilblades]

"god given"was their way of saying that its natural that all are equal and should have the same rights,religious or not.

freedom of religion includes freedom from religion.

they added this to keep america from beeing reduced from the most secular state in the western word, to a servant of the church like a lot of european powers, it was made specifically to keep religion out of the state.

during the cold war religion moved more and more into the state "to protect it from the godless communists"

[FrenchToastCharlie]

The Founding Fathers was cold blooded killers and rape and killed people. And they practice beastiality. But they hate fags. Year sure faggot. James Madison dont know what a condom is?

[hartshornguy]

first off they weren't cold blooded killers or rapeists thats a white guilt myth. indians butchered white setlers and missionaries from the beggining so what happened to the white guilt myth of the peacefull indians that you said the indians said it was everybody's land? it was the indians who lost when we came and it was other indians who pushed them out of that land before. so don't foster this myth about somthing you know nothing about.

[evilblades]

that depends a lot on witch tribes we are talking about, but generaly they didnt go peacefully no :P

at any rate it seems both had coldblooded killings, massacres and rapes, but its far from unpresidented in history.

but people react more to it because it is a matter of race, or because they try to make it a matter of race.

if both sides were white we wouldn't even be talking about it..

[FrenchToastCharlie]

we talk about world war 2 and that both white

[FrenchToastCharlie]

they was so cold blooded killers and rapists. Look at all the different type of blacks. from dark skin to medium light or very light skin. The founding fathers did kicked British ass that is why we today are in debt to British Maritime Law or something like that.

[hartshornguy]

enough of your childish white guilt it makes me sick. if our country was started by cut throat killers then why stay here. go live in africa of asia then. because we are sick you and your sophmoric ideas and logic

[Trollmaster21]

There's nothing at all on this clip that says our Founding Fathers were against gay marriage.

To be fair, there's nothing to say they were for it either.

Whoever made this video is just talking out of his ass.

[hartshornguy]

its the bed rock of our country and coustoms to not accept that. and scientifically it makes not biological sense to allow it but we tolerate it like a crying baby

[evilblades]

why does it "scientifically" make no sense?, what sense does marriage make anyway scientifically?

america was founded on escape from religious persecution,, groups who the Europeans keept throwing on a fire moved over to america to live in personal freedom from persecution.

it was founded on freedom from oppression, religious and otherwise..

[televin]

They wanted freedom you idiot

[chamula1968]

he founders made their wishes clear when they wrote in the Declaration of Independence, "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness." That includes everybody, not just the people you like or agree with- everybody. The only thing you said that was accurate was that you didn't know much about what your were talking about!

[chamula1968]

The founding fathers created the constitution to protect the people of this nation from the evil that they had observed in Europe. Evils which include the oppression of minority groups by the majority and the influence of the church.

[wordkeeper]

did the founding father's intend for our country to become this corrupt?

I say no.

You'll never get that across to the thick-skulled liberals and seculars though. Still, noble efforts in trying, my friend. But they are addicted to perversion, they'll twist anything to get what they want.

[hartshornguy]

exactly

[steveoboston]

Free drugs? Where on earth do they give out free drugs?

But to answer your question, yes. I think they would. There is no question in my mind that the founding fathers (most of whom were Deists or Atheists, not Christian as is usually assumed) would protect the freedom for unpopular speech with their very last breath. That was kinda the whole point. And when this country swings back from this ridiculous state of fear it's in, you'll be grateful for your ability to spout unpopular views.

[inktankproductions]

The founding fathers were unelected slave owners. Thats a fact. I have no idea what you are trying to say with the rest of your message. Get an education. My original point was: So what if the founding wanted certain things? Why should that have any bearing on how the US grows?

[inktankproductions]

The founding fathers also thought black people should be slaves. No doubt a redkneck christian like you agrees with that too? So what if the founding fathers never wanted these things?

[hartshornguy]

yes because we all know that they were atheists,gay activists,feminist, politically correct group of men who loved the idea that a gooverment could control them from what they eat to smoking. but your twisted idea of what they are is fine even though no evidence supports your claims. yes if you want to slander them that way they were "redneck christians" not crypto facists like you.

[jordan1971]

Phew---now that I have committed that one second of irrational thought based on your argument I feel like I need a shower. Idiot! And for those that quote the bible---read the whole damn thing and then get back to me after you have sold your daughters into slavery and stoned an adulter to death (both biblical passages). Do you think our founding fathers wanted idiots on YouTube projecting hatred for other Americans while hiding behind profiles with no pictures of themselves? Hmmmmmmmm......

[orgay3]

Homophobia is a mental disorder, get help!

[hartshornguy]

being gay is a mental disease along with stupidity my moronic friend

[orgay3]

Homophobia has always been a synonym to stupidity, bigotry and so on! But you know what? Ask a doctor and he will tell you that homosexuality is completely normal! He will also tell you that homophobia is a MENTAL disorder! So once again GET HELP FAST!

[hartshornguy]

no "real" doctor would even tell anybody that without laughing. tell me this has always been the show stopper for you morons since no advocate can answer it, why would you support a way of living and acting if that action was bad for a species to exist and bread since you claim it is normal then why would a species have that trait biologically if it showed and knew that would not be helpfull for its existance to survive. its nots not normal and you have no proof that it does.

[hartshornguy]

dont spread you hatefull terms at us and act so mighty. we know who you are and you hate the idea of even having to answer to anybody or somthing like God. i guess the pope and all christians,jews,muslims are all "homophobic" since they know that its just lust and is harmfull to anybody that practices it. your sick in the head for allowing people to live that way.

[orgay3]

I think you might be homosexual, hartshornguy!

[GottOngeloof]

"We have staked the whole future of American civilization, not upon the power of government, far from it. We have staked the future ... upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves, to sustain ourselves, according to the Ten Commandments of God." ~James Madison

Now just where in the Ten Commandments does it discuss homosexuality? In fact the Bible talks more about the restrictions on heterosexual sex than what people have termed homosexual, there was no such word in that time.

[tickettosuccess]

And with a man you shall not lie with as a man lies with a woman; it is an abomination. Leviticus 18:22

[GottOngeloof]

GFY, and that doesn't mean good for you. Leviticus is not the 10 commandments dumbfuck. Exodus and Matthew. You actually might try reading Matthew a bit more.

Better not be wearing poly-blends and stone your misbehaving children to death, or your neighbor who works on the sabbath, Leviticus lover. Pick and choose those that protect you. But the law protects all asshole. When Americans get your religion out of the courts where they weren't supposed to be.

[novaploy]

lol...they didnt have these issues back then, so they didnt know what to do...its called evolution

[tshoebat]

"its called evolution"don't you mean devolution? homosexualty doesn't do anything to make society better, it cannot produce children and it causes aids.

[GottOngeloof]

You are retarded. Get an education!!!

[wordkeeper]

tshoebat makes not only a reasonable point, but states the facts... and a liberal's retort is an ad hominem....

Oh those seculars...

How predictable and civil you are indeed. Responses like GottOngeloof's are nothing short I'd expect from groups that somehow identify themselves as "rational" and "intellectual" ...especially since we've just witnessed for ourselves that their comebacks are such powerful evidence of those attributes. Riiiigghhht.

[MatthewCVR]

The founding fathers never wanted a Christian theocracy.

[wordkeeper]

They never wanted an "Atheocracy" either. They wanted a God-fearing democracy,... not another country that would be ruled by an established religion or church.

You people use that as a calling-card to efface Christianity from America, but that is twisting their intentions. Did you listen to tshoebat's questions?

Times have changed. The world isn't what it once was. They never foresaw that such freedoms would be used to outlaw religion; only that religion never became a governmental dictator.

[MatthewCVR]

A God-Fearing Democracy? LOL

For the record I don't believe the founding fathers wanted homosexuality running rampant and I'm not an atheist.

Again I stand by my statement they never wanted a theocracy but for some reason so many people think they did.

[wordkeeper]

Yes, a God-fearing democracy.

Do you think God -as being the foundation to our unalienable rights and equality- ended up in our country's central documents by accident?

[MatthewCVR]

"God-fearing democracy" what does that term consist of?

Voting children into school uniforms because Marilyn Manson t-shirts are "offensive?"

Casting votes for hypocritical laws like teen curfews and censorship?

Again I'd bet my life and all my belongings the founders would NEVER have supported feminism and they certainly wouldn't have supported communism you see today. But they wouldn't have supported Pat Robertson's agenda either.

[Belle19700]

Dude: Define feminism please. Before birth-control, women were baby factories. They went through hell. They couldn't vote. This is a modern day, and women are just as informed as men, which is probably not much. Women are constantly deserted, or divorced by and from men. They have to be able to get a descent job, and take care of the children. What is it about feminism that you don't care for?

[MatthewCVR]

First off I think 99 percent of the time divorce is for the better. My mom just got one from my dad and she has a decent job, especially compared to the job I have right now but anyhow getting down to your question "what is it about feminism I don't care for?" Hmm they want to ban children from playing cops and robbers.

[Belle19700]

I haven't been around any women like that, but I'm sure they are out there. Feminising everyone is not a good idea. We live in world that is very dangerous. We are spoiled in the USA. We don't realize that without strong leadership, and a little bit of fear, the USA would be vulnerable. We abosolutely must raise tough kids. They have to understand how the world is, and that most of the world is not like the USA. Dictortatorships, starvation, et cetera. Kids instinctively play cops and robbers.

[MatthewCVR]

Fear of us around the world and strong leadership within. You said it!

[MatthewCVR]

They want to ban just as much of our entertainment as the religious wrong. Many of them are downright socialist. To cut right to the point it's not the bra-burners who stood up in the 1960's that I'm against. It's the whole "strong man=bad man" mentality I'm against.

[softpetals321]

lol Right on tshoebat!! Our country was founded on the Gospel of Jesus Christ! Founding fathers like Noah Webster who wrote the first dictionary Could literally quote the Bible chapter & verse. James Madison said, "We've staked our future on our ability to follow The Ten Commandments with all our heart" These men believed you couldn't even call yourself an American If you subvert the Word of God. Right on Theodore! God bless you brother!

[mutefx]

Do YOU think THEY wanted their "opinions" baselessy thrown out like facts?

But you said it all at the beginning, you dont know shit about the founding fathers, and by extension, you dont know shit about how they would have reacted to todays social issues.

What a fucking waste of time.

[neotropic9]

The founding fathers was also sexist and racist, and they were -by today's standards- immoral bigots. So stop worshiping them like prophets. They weren't. They were humans.

[SpeedyBruin]

We hold it for a fundamental and undeniable truth that religion, or the duty which we owe our Creator, and the manner of discharging it, can be directed only by reason and conviction, not by force or violence. The religion, then, of every man must be left to the conviction and conscience of every man: and that it is the right of every man to exercise it as these may dictate.

An alliance or coalition between Government and religion cannot be too carefully guarded against

-James Madison