Ephesians 2:8-10 "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them."
John 1:12-13 "But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, the gave the right to become children of God, who wwere born, not of blood NOR OF THE WILL OF THE FLESH NOR OF THE WILL OF MAN, but of God."
Predestination is scriptural, but Calvinists overlook one thing. God predestined all His children to eternal life but not the children of the devil. The devil has also children (The parable of the wheat and the tare).
God does not pick from random and choose whom he want to save and whom He don't want to save. All the children of God descended from Adam, the son of God. All of the children of the devil descended from Cain, the son of the devil.
Man is sinful I do admit, but what we forget is that all our names are in the book of life. This means that we all have the way to salvation through repentance. Once we live our lives in sin, deny God and Our Savior Jeshua. This is when we are taken out of the book, until we find him again.
Why would Calvinists evangelize? Becuase we are commanded to. Jesus Himself, commanded us to go into all the world and preach the Good News. Why did the Isrealites march around Jericho? They were told God would bring them the victory, but nevertheless, were commanded to do march and sing. God knew the victory would be theirs and they knew it too. This is the same thing. We evangelize because we are His obedient instruments to bring forth His Church unto Him.
@johe64, We evangelize because because the elect are lost and they need to hear the gospel, believe the gospel, repent of their sins and must be born again to be saved.
It is true that Jesus commanded His disciples to evangelize, but the purpose is for the elect to be regenerated.
@FitnessMinded Why would God choose me, a complete sinner, to be His child? I don't deserve ANY of God's mercy or grace. Every time I think about God's choosing this busted vessel, I cry... I am filled with thankfulness, awe and wonder. I think why me and not someone else? Also, I would much rather have The God of Creation have my salvation in His hands than in mine, wouldn't you? And now, I feel much more responsible to be obedient to His call on my life!
@johe64, You might be a sinner but you deserve His mercy and grace. Why? Because you are a son of God. You might be a lost sheep but nevertheless you are a sheep.
@FitnessMinded Why would God choose me, a complete sinner, to be His child? I don't deserve ANY of God's mercy or grace. Every time I think about God's choosing this busted vessel, I cry... I am filled with thankfulness, awe and wonder. I think why me and not someone else?
@FitnessMinded Why would God choose me, a complete sinner, to be His child? I don't deserve ANY of God's mercy or grace. Every time I think about God's choosing this busted vessel, I cry... I am filled with thankfulness, awe and wonder. I think why me and not someone else? I would rather have God in charge of my salvation than me--wouldn't you?
I like how this video calls the freewill gospel food for goats. We like to call it Gummy Bear theology. It will give you sumthin to chew on, but it has no spiritual nutrition to live on.
also, perhaps some are confusing God's prescience with His will. just because God knows what i will do in the next few moments (or all moments for that matter) does not mean that He causes me to do them or that i have no choice but to do those things because of some immutable law of cwross1976 behaviour set down by God at the outset. to sum up i believe in freewill, i believe that even as wicked as people are they can and do open their eyes and decide, selflessly even, to accept christ.
the short answer is 'no, evangelism is unnecessary'. the long answer is because if people are chosen by God then they will eventually come to know christ et cetera as God foresaw, and nothing that anyone could say or do in the meantime, positive or negative could change that fact. that said i must respectfully reject this calvinism as the imperfect interpretation of people. God is alot of things, most of all fair. if He created me without any chance of salavation that just seems wrong.
I'm a Calvinist myself but I too have recognized there is a very proud attitude among many Calvinists and it's easy to fall into this kind of sin because of the great theology.i myself have sinned this way as way, but the Lord is working in me to communicate in gentleness and respect towards others.I think John Piper wrote something about being a nicer Calvinist.
I find very few examples among Calvinists who started out as Calvinists in their Christian walk. The vast majority seem to have arrived at that systematic understanding of the bible after careful study of scripture. Every last one of them has described embracing the doctrines of grace as something like a wrestling match with the truth - with God's magnificence ultimately capturing their heart vs. their pride and the attitudes and philosophy of Aristotle & finally understanding the difference.
how hard the Calvinists try; the fact of the matter remains to be answered...why bother evangelism...even why bother Cross if God was the author of sin and that from eternity past, he had already determined the number of people to be saved...what is the use of Cross? What kind of a lunatic would God be? Calvinists God surely looks a one lunatic who is playing games that are so stupid and senseless
I freely admit, that Calvinist's actions don't always seem to match their theology. They evangelize, defend the gospel, and many other things that doesn't seem to reflect one who believes that salvation has already been predestined and guaranteed. However, it is the actions of many Calvinists that show that they are truly servants of our Lord Jesus Christ. So, while as a student of Orthodoxy, I do have doctrinal disagreements, I also freely admit that Calvinists are truly Christian.
The Calvinist concept is bibilical but the thing that causes it to be logically flawed is a false premise based on an old primitive understanding of Gods perception of time, the natue of time and events. They presuppose that if God knows all their is no freewill but this primitive understanding has been refutes by mathmatics and quatum reality.
@LogosTheos , Predestination is scriptural but Calvinism has many flaws. All people have freewill. Election is relative to God, while free will is relative to man. All God's chldren will be saved but the devils children will not be saved(The parable of the wheat and the tare).
Both will hear the gospel. The Wheat will choose to believe, while the Tare will choose not to believe.
We have free will of spontaneity, not free will of indifference. Show me anywhere where it talks about free-will and mans free-choice in the bible please.
@Charlie4Jesus , 1. You are contradicting yourself. You said that you don't deny free will, Then you asked me to show in the bible where it talks about free will. It proves that you are confused.
2. You don't understand Jer 13:23 and you quote it incorrectly. It should read "Neither also you can do good who are accustomed to do evil."
I understand that it's God who draws people to salvation and repentance and that he has chosen who he saves and who he doesn't. In light of all this, when I witness to someone and they ask me what they can do to be saved, how do I answer them?
Read the entire context of these passages, God draws all men thru HS... Calvinism is a man's doctrine that causes confusion and is illogical. You don't answer them if the Calvinist's god is true, it doesn't matter if they preach the gospel because God will save who He's predestined to save whether you preach or not. Westboro Baptist are consistent Calvinists--just preaching that everyone's going to hell b/c God will save His elect in their view no matter what they preach.
youre supposed to tell us which bible you are quoting from. if you do some research on a lot of the different bibles (NIV or King James for example) some of the newer bibles are using the wrong words in what they consider an attempt to make the bible use more modern english, but people who study the differences can tell you that the new translations often end up using words that cause contradictions.
I apologise I take it all back 'the word perfect is used' but not in the content that some people here have been quoting it. ie 'yeshualovesme' coming off with using the word pure and talking about perfect in the same breath.
Perfect means - walked upright before God, blameless, without spot etc but does not mean in any shape or form sinless.
Blameless and spotless means sinless dude. What could it mean otherwise? Blameless and spotless is the exact requirements the Messiah had to fulfill. So why then does Job know man needs an intercessor if he is blameless and spotless because of his own deeds. Again, like I said before. He was seen as righteous because of his faith and reliance on God alone! Please explan how all the requirements for blood sacrifice in The OT had to have animals that were spotless. Seriously, give some logic first
John Says, "He who says he hath no sin lies, for he does not have the Spirit" Jesus said, Those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, while be filled. In Job we see that Job says, "If only there was an intercessor" Job was for God and he desired no sin, he live for God in all he did. He was not about himself and his riches. We see time and time again in the NT that OT characyers were counted as righteous because they believed God. It is the same today, Faith is what makes one righteous!
@pricelesspam Noah's generations were perfect. Think about it his whole family line is the one talked about in Genesis until he is mentioned. His generations mean his bloodline was without nephilim blood! untainted=perfect in his generations
No they were not perfect - Noah walked right before God. If they were using your word perfect sin wouldn't have continued to be an issue for the human race. I don't know where you are getting your understanding from but it sure isn't from your pastor. If you think you are right in your odd thinking then do this.
Print of your comments to people from this youtube page and show your pastor!
@lovethecaribbean1 I dont think you understood me. I was saying that Noah was NOT perfect! His bloodline was without Nephilim blood! That;s all I was saying. No man has ever lived a perfect life, save Jesus Himself. I hope that clears it up. I said that Noah was perfect in His generations, meaning His bloodline was not tainted by the fallen angels offspring, the Nephilim.
@yeshualovesme1 What is perfect?do u think Adam was perfect?if so then how could he have been deceived in he first place,and how about the fact he was created in such a way that he could be tricked or fooled.He also had many needs and weaknesses,such as a need for food ,sleep etc.To me perfect could mean blameless.Only God is all ;powerful,man was created with weakness from the start.Thus he needs God,who is all powerful.
The word perfect is not used. Will people please stop putting in words that are unscriptural and start using bible study materials for greek and hebrew. Its not hard - it can be done on-line
@lovethecaribbean1 The word perfect is subjective,almost like the word beautiful,one persons idea of what perfect means,might be alot different than someone elses,Perfect is used in many Bibles,King James in fact.
please read
Job1:1
There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright,and one that feared God,and eschewed evil.
Some other BIBLE TRANSLATION REPLACE THE WORD PERFECT FOR BLAMELESS.
@yeshualovesme1 So u think everyone accept Noah had nephilim blood,that is your answer,well others besides Noah where called righteous before God too so your deduction does not answer my question effectively.Your opinion is not Biblical from what it looks like.Research it yourselve.
@pricelesspam Dude its all in the bible. If you really think about it every man spoken about in the Genesis as righteous, were Noah's direct Ancestors. From Adam to Enoch to Lamech, to Methuselah. They were not only spoken of because they were in good with God, but because they were undefiled. By the time Noah was around, he may not have been the only "pureblood" so to speak. But he was the only pureblood who lived for and believe in God. Just like today, no one is perfect!
What on earth on you getting off with this so called pure blood. Theres no such thing as pure blood. God never mentioned it. From the fall of Adam sin entered all men.
And your contradicting Gods word - Noah was the only righteous man around in those days thats why God saved him and his family.
@lovethecaribbean1 Do you know what Generations mean in the bible? Noyt once does generations mean anythng but family line. Noah was "perfect in his geberations. it says it plainly in the bible, check it out. Genesis chapter 6
WRONG AGAIN! I SUGGEST TO EVERYONE HERE ON THIS PAGE NOT TO COMMUNICATE WITH YOU AS LONGER AS YOUR UNDERSTANDING IS MILKY AND SOMEWHAT UNSTABLE. AS MY PASTOR SAID YOU PROBADLY DON'T EVEN GO TO CHURCH.
@lovethecaribbean1 I go to church. I actually lead worship at 2 churches. One on Saturday and then my home church on Sunday. My nhomw church is Merced First baptist. We are not however a regualr baptist church. we broke off because our affiliation was trying to require us to allow gays in the pulpit, so we decided to break away a few years ago. My Patorate consists of 4 awesome bible teachers. I don't go around spouting off about these things at church, but I still believe that it is true.
@lovethecaribbean1 Also even if it is not true, you cannot believe that Noah or any other nman was perfect. So how do you reconcile that God used the word Perfect to describe Noah, if he was a sinner just like us? Just a logical question. Bu hey, rather than belittling each other why dont we talk about scripture. I wouldlike to understand where you are coming from and show you where i come from. I have a very extensive knowledge of scripture, not to mention my faith rests solely on JesusChrist
@yeshualovesme1 Hi,i think u mean well.give me your take om this scripture please.
Job1:8
Then the LORDsaid to Satan,"Have you comsidered my servant Job?There is no one on earth like him;he is blameless and upright,a man who fears God and shuns evil."
Now my question is to u if man is so called totally depraved ,why would God be bragging on Job to Satan?
God himself looks like he is saying Job is upright and blameless,and hates evil.
Did I ever say that all would be saved - I think not. But the call is for all. If your witnessing was correct 98% of those who said they were saved would admit that they aren't saved. So may be there's something wrong with your witnessing. I don't say this to discourage you continue with witnessing but make sure your saying the right thing. People who I have witnessed to have admitted that they are not saved or they mumble and hesitate when talking to them - they know there not saved.
Everyone should share the gospel, it is our commission from Christ Jesus, The problem today, is that preachers are not preaching the gospel. Who knows who is to be saved and who is not? I found that in witnessing to others 98% of everyone I talk to is saved, they've been told that by preacher who have no idea how to preach the gospel.They are saved by baptism, membership or works but not by repentance or believing in who Christ really is. In American Christianity The church looks like the world.
@lovethecaribbean1 Christ died as a "propitiation" for the sin of the world. But not all sin was atoned for. The word atonement is only 800 years old. It means At-one-with Christ. No one with a brain could say that all sins were atoned for. If that were the case, even people in Hel would be "at one" with Christ. Not true! propitiation has the same meaning that blood scarifices had in the OT. It was a covering, not payment. Jesus was the payment for all who would be saved, but he covered all sin
Jesus's blood was not a covering like in the O/T. Christ blood atoned for all sin, Christ blood was better than that of animals. His blood has washed away all punishment for sin.
You have to respond to the call of salvation and repentance to be adopted into his family and enter into heaven. In regards to hell there is no one in hell at the moment - that is reserved for satan and the demons and all who refused the love of Christ.
@lovethecaribbean1 So you are saying that everyone in hell is AT-ONE-WITH CHRIST? AT-ONE-WITH CHRIST is waht Atonement means! So are people in hell one wth Christ? Come on!
Your playing with words and making no sense whatsoever - your making yourself look stupid.
Atonement does not 'mean at one with christ' look up the meaning in word study and if your not in a bible study group you need to start attending with not just the bible but the bible with word study of hebrew and greek.
@lovethecaribbean1 Encyclopedia atonement - atonement, the reconciliation, or “at-one-ment,” of sinful humanity with God. In Judaism both the Bible and rabbinical thought reflect the belief that God's chosen people must be pure to remain in communion with God. William Tyndale made the word, here is the meaning, why he made the word. Atonement — a word whose pronunciation disguises its meaning, which is literally at one ment, a bringing to unity, a reconciliation of that which is estranged’
Your using wrong research material - ask your pastor for the study material he used as bible college. You'll find it is not the encyclopedia that they used!
@Giantsbran1227 Christ died as a "propitiation" for the sin of the world. But not all sin was atoned for. The word atonement is only 800 years old. It means At-one-with Christ. No one with a brain could say that all sins were atoned for. If that were the case, even people in Hel would be "at one" with Christ. Not true! propitiation has the same meaning that blood scarifices had in the OT. It was a covering, not payment. Jesus was the payment for all who would be saved, but he covered all sin!
@LiberalsAndChurls Real believers don't. It is true that some who believe calvinism would use "election" as a badge to say that I can sin if I ant to because i am one of the elect. This is not a true believer. Atrue believer desires no sin in their life, and the hinger and thirst for righteousness. Calvinism should really be just called Biblical, but it is not a liscense to sin, by any means. Those who feel that way are probably not the elect, like they think they are!
That's just it, the church today is more of an entertainment center rather then a church. No messages that convict or hurt feelings.The Gospel is truth, the truth always hurts especially those comfortable in their sins. The church today helps them feel justified in their sin. America's modern day churches are harlots. The pastors are either spineless or they're ignorant of the gospel. Sad, but true.The will of man is what keeps him from God.They want salvation but on only their terms.
@GregoryD57 I don't know about everyone else, but finding out just how tainted i was compared to what God desires was pretty offensive to me at first, then I realized it was true and wanted God grace!
"His [Calvin's] religion was demonism. If ever man worshiped a false God, he did. The being described in his five points is ... a demon of malignant spirit. It would be more pardonable to believe in no God at all, than to blaspheme him by the atrocious attributes of Calvin" (Works, Vol. iv., p. 363). -Thomas Jefferson
Romans 11:20-22 (King James Version) 20Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: 21For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. 22Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. This verse is enough .
@pricelesspam totally depraved means you have no chnace at being righteous in God's eyes. If you recall in Genesis before the fall, Adam and Eve knew good. It was after they snned that they knew evil. One tiny bit of evil is enough to be destined for hell. We can know what is good and try to act accordingly, but the moment we sin, all of our good deeds mean absolutely nothing, hence, we are totally depraved from true righteousness!
@pricelesspam It means what it says. God only saw what could be called righteousness in Noah's house, his family. The rest were sinful and God being just, sentenced all others to death, just as in revelations it will be and just as today is. God never changes, man changes, then tries to change God.
@GregoryD57 I thought you said man had no chance of being looked at as righteous before God,because after the fall man became as you say totally depraved.There are many other instances where men are called righteous in the Bible.Do an online study please,so i dont have to send u proof.
@pricelesspam You can get a much better idea what that means when you read Genesis 6:4 and verse 9. Verse4 There were giants on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men and they bore children to them.Then verse 9 "This is the genealogy of Noah. Noah was a just man, perfect in his generations."
@LaneCh Haha, right on. I love the very end @ 9:54. "A wise non-believer is going to say, 'Well, if God loves me the way I am, why should I change?'" Haha, so true. We need to stop preaching compromised scripture and start teaching the scripture the way it was meant to be taught.
You are right, the niv has passages left out, mentions hell only twice,etc, but just read the greek early bible. quick verse for Windows has them all.You can take your pick, because I have their entire package.So use the early Greek and just translate it, goes back way before the kj of 1610.Then for the ot, read the early, early one and translate it yourself. It's all there.
@Nepthu I'm neither Arminian or Calvinist, as I refuse to accept doctrinal systems created outside of the Bible and instead prefer to read it myself and see what it says. However, I can honestly say that I believe Calvinists tend to read and view scripture more fully and understand the true nature of what it's saying than most Arminians do. I'm under the belief that the gospel and our required response to it has been totally misrepresented in this church culture. "Easy Believism" comes to mind.
@shipleyshipster Spot on sir. Im in the same boat as you. Looking forward to seeing you in heaven. I myself want to understand the bible more and live my life carrying my cross daily. I discern every teaching i hear and tend not to listen to the BIG preachers.
I evangelize because God commanded me to do so.God knows whom He will save I don't nothing is changed. Free will or election no difference the evangelist goes out in suspense of seeing God's will.The difference I go out knowing God has an election and I can be part of that affection by submitting to God to be a part.This is really a straw man argument,evangelize by command or affection. God's election only helps because I don't persuade anyone
So the unction is not just one of obedience but one of life and death. God desires that all men repent and be saved.
You say you dont persuade anyone but this was not the attitude of the Apostle Paul in his service to Christ
Corinthians 5:11 Knowing, therefore, the terror of the Lord, we PERSUADE men; but we are well known to God, and I also trust are well known in your consciences.
@prn72271 What did Paul persuade? "The terror of the Lord" not of salvation.Salvation is of the Lord not of the workings of men.A man can be convinced God as a terror and never be saved
20 Now then, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were pleading through us: we implore you on Christ’s behalf, be reconciled to God. 21 For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.
Hebrew 6 : 4For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
It means that the elects , or those who has proven , can also reject it is clearer than Romans.
@u2bMODERATOR why not complete the quote with verse 9 Hebrews 6:9 But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak. - that is, those of verses 4ff are not saved ! they only were enlightened to the truth etc but they return to the vomit which they prefer 2 Pe 2:21-22 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than..to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
@suprathelapsarian No, friend , you are wrong. According to Calvinism the holy spirit is only given to chosen ones. and the verse says :", and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost", It means YES the saved. Also if you believe in this that you said , Calvin is in the hell right now, because he burned Servet premeditatedly, which means he had an evil heart, a sign ( according to Calvinism) that he has not been convinced by the Spirit . Which also means that You follow the doctrine of a lost one.
Ok i can agree if you say that we can preach the Gospel to all because we don´t know who will accept . But why Jesus came , so? If God has chosen since the beginning , the death of Christ was in vain or a simple palliative to improve the show with a dramatic scene . The bible says in john 1 , that He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him.It meand the grace was not irresistible to his OWN. .
since i don't subscribe to reformed tenant of limited atonement, i think we should preach the Gospel to the whole world because Jesus dies for the sins of the world, not just the sins of the elect. that's a much better reason than because we don't know who the elect are.
@JRayMalcolm well I am no armenian but that scripture says that SALVATION IS THE GIFT and it comes through grace by faith and salvation didnt come to you by any of your "good works". ex - giving to the poor, being a good husband, keeping the commandments.
@prn72271 yes and no calvanist would deny any of that... but there is a diffrence between "good works" and sin. if you disobey the ten commandments you are most likely sinning but the Bible never says not giving to the poor is a sin, it is a work done as a result of our salvation not for our salvation. on a side note, I can only assume what "prn" means in your name but if it is what I think it is you should probably examine your heart before starting theological debates on youtube, or change it
It would seem that it is you who should be examining your heart for the thought came from your heart not mine. Think what you want, i am not changing anything, You and an rude UNBELIEVER are the only two persons to think such filth.
Pure and simple believing or chosing is not good works.
@prn72271 well im glad its not but you obviously understood it too, there's really not too many thing that it could stand for and Im just saying it may put off the wrong signals.
but choosing/ being elected has little to do with works and much more to do with our ability to overcome sin, humans are sinful by nature, so how could we save our selfs or play any role in that salvation? and how can an armenian explain Ephesians 2:8? I think the Bible is extremely clear....
@JRayMalcolm I only understood it because an unrepentant sinner brought it to my attention. It never once came into my mind prior to that as they are simply my initials.
Ephesians 2:8 says that salvation is the gift of God.
No one is implying that man can save himself but Romans 1 states clearly that man can suppress the truth.
How can one lean to the belief that if a baby is raped it was ordained by God. What foolishness and direspect to My God!
@prn72271 k,thats fine with me.I was just asking a question, not accusing you of anything. and of course man suppresses the truth because the truth is in everyone yet not everyone is a believer. but they also cant believe without God. and with all respect I care nothing for "your god" I only care what the Bible says, and though God may not have caused the rape of a baby, He didn't stop it either. and ultimately God uses even sin for His glory...
2:28-2:33 That would mean that preaching the gospel to the lost will make things worse for them. The 'indictment' will be more serious and therefore their punishment. So preaching the gospel is not a very charitable thing to do.
This is a gross dustortion of reality. There were plenty of Wesleyans out there along side Whitfield et al. God either meant He came for the whole world or he didn't.
A colossal betrayal is taking place under the auspices of Christianity. This betrayal is easily proven by one verse of Sacred Scripture, I Peter 4:18, “And if the righteous [referring to church members] scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?” These words teach that extremely few from the tens of thousands of church congregations across America and around the world will stand with Jesus Christ in the end of time. "If thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments."
Even if historical Protestantism rose to the forefront their message is still contaminated with papal dogma. The reason the dumbing down of Christianity is so widespread is due to the two oxymorons permeating the church. 1. Teaching that all who reject the "love" of Jesus will be rewarded with flesh burning torture for all eternity. 2. Teaching the first day of the week as vital to human survival when not a single Bible verse gives sanction to Sunday sacredness, the oldest pagan tradition.
If free will is true why evangelize to interrupt their free will? Will not free will find God? A free will that can send God away would demean Christ making an offer to a depraved perverted sinner.Free will cannot demean God's purpose!
i am an autonomous being. thank you. i will scrutinize your god and your doctrines. it is through critical thinking, and reason that someone should choose.
.God does not sell the gospel and he doesn't need salesmen. He doesn't need anyone. WE are the grateful recipients of God's unmerited favor through Christ Jesus. We are empowered by the Holy Spirit and preserved and sealed until the day of redemption. We have this blessed hope that one day our bridegroom will come and call us from the air and so shall we ever be with the LORD. Knowing that the LORD of Hosts is Sovereign in His election made Noah bold for 120 yrs. without a convert. Think on this
One of your leading Calvinist fathers James White believes that child rape is from God. Do you see how sick and twisted that is? Child rape. Did you know that child molesters are the lowest scum in jail and get beaten to a pulp regularly if not killed? Calvinists believe that child rape is from God. You have not only spit in God's face, but you have counted him among the child molesters. Woe unto you! Repent!
@mikaelstoneface Arminians believe something far worse, that God sees child rape and just sits back and watches as though he cannot do anything......the terrible things in the world are testimonies to how wicked sin is and how fallen and depraved we are(end of romants 1 into 2 codemns you for everything, it is by Gods grace we do anything good and therefore still sin in itself that we take credit and establish our egos from it)
@mikaelstoneface Atleast the believer in Gods providence can believe God was in control over these evil hearts and that he brought it to pass for good and not evil. Otherwise those children could grow up saying "God why didnt you save me from that situation" that situation happened in the wisdom of God, rather then for us to sit back and say "the world is a mess and God is not in control"....Even an arminian believes God "allowed it" for good, to grace believers that is how he brought it to pass
@mikaelstoneface The devil is withstrained like we see in job, he needs permission from God to do evil......God brings evil to pass not by permitting it or pushing someone to do it, he allows it......that is total depravity, God doesnt allow men to be as evil as they could be either
@mikaelstoneface The liberation of Gods providence shows us that God is not inspired by events(this mans going to rape this person, hmm I wonder if I can get some good out of that) No they can say like Joseph said to his brothers Genesis 50:20
"As for you, you meant evil against me, but God meant it for good
Here's another question, and I hope you take it as more rhetorical because I can no longer stand your stupid Satanic answers. You are enemies of the cross and you're going to pay for it if you don't repent. If you believe that it's God's will that people should be sick or possessed by demons to teach them a lesson, then why cast the demons out? Would you not then be getting in the way of God's 'Sovereign' work?
A good rule of thumb: If what we do in life points to Jesus, our ministry is true. If what we do in life points to men or anything else for that matter, our ministry is false and it's time to repent.
Here's a question: do you have the Holy Ghost? Do you believe that you can have a conversation with God? If so, then ask Him yourself if Calvinism is something He endorses.
Your Calvinist religion is disastrous to people's faith. I bet most of you who are now Calvinists began with a true love for God, but then went to Seminary or Bible College and your faith in Jesus Christ and his teachings were pulverized by a bunch of dry old men who sit on their high horse and demand that all men come to them for the answers. This is why Satan devises these false religions, so that you will take your attention off God and come to rely upon men to interpret scripture.
The biggest threat to individuals is churches teaching them that they are saved as long as they accept Jesus and abide by the church's doctrines......this is dangerous
The greatest revivals and evangelists involved those committed to Calvinism? Are these guys living in an alternate reality? What happened too Charles G. Finney, John Wesley, and William Seymour! This "Amazing Grace" is nothing more than an amazing fabrication of history as historically accurate as Mormonism! It is appalling that those who profess to call themselves "Christian" would use deception to validate their system of theology.
I like some of these videos, but this one didn't answer the question. "Because we don't know who the elect are!" That doesn't change anything, because according to the doctrine of calvinism God will save them whether we are preaching or not.
@Creationcreed Where did you get such an idea? What doctrine of Calvinism are you referring to, and where did you read it? God ordains not only the ends, but also the means. No one is saved apart from the preaching of the Word. Read Romans 10 carefully. We preach the gospel because we are commanded to do so. God uses the "foolishness of preaching" to save sinful men...could He have devised some other plan? Of course, but He did not.
@pastorpapamike You could say he ordains who will preach as well, right! He only commands the elect, but how do you know your the elect? Outward deeds? Yes, we can know if we are wholeheartedly following Christ and His Word, but we really don't know. We can THINK we are, based on what we know about being saved, but ultimately we don't from what I understand from calvinism.
@Creationcreed Did John Calvin teach this or perhaps some other Calvinsit who taught this? Maybe after the death of Calvin 64 yrs after his death whom originated TULIP? I never taught this. Neither did D. James Kennedy a 5 point Calvinist who wrote on of the most popular books on evangelism called, "Evangelism Explosion". I tend to see this as an assumptive belief but not anything any Calvinist taught.
@daveme7 No calvinist will teach that, but that is the natural conclusion. You really don't know who is saved. No one believes that everyone is TRULY saved until the end. With the otherside, you know someone is saved by their obedience. Obedience on the calvinist side is not exactly the determining factor, I found. How do you know someone is saved?
@Creationcreed 19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
The Holy Bible : King James Version. 1995 (electronic ed. of the 1769 edition of the 1611 Authorized Version.) (1 Jn 2:19). Bellingham WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.
@Creationcreed This one and last one Matt 7 18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
@Creationcreed Last-read james 2. That gives a very good understanding of how to determine if someone is saved or not. Also in 1 John-much goes to teach this. Basically, what is the pattern of your life? Is it towards God or away from God.
@daveme7 I know all that, but a person can appear to be saved. The Disciples didn't even know one of their own betrayed them. We can know to the best of our observation about others. As far as examining ourselves we can know WE are saved. Ultimately, we have to pray and rely on God's working on a person. You would agree with that.
@Creationcreed Yes I do agree wit5h this. In my own experiance-it was two or three different differant things-one happening twice. First, when I was 12 and got saved-no "feelings" that I was saved(or lost) but basically a very deep desire to know God through his word at age 37 has yet to be fulfilled
@Creationcreed The other in a similar way-a strong desire to be at church and in fellowship. In 1990 when I first joined the Marines-the same desire to fellowship with Christians. In Okinawa, Japan-quite often many away from home want to live differently as mama and papa ar no longer around to watch over you and make you go to church-it is you who decides.
@Creationcreed These are the two I look at besides what I have done in life and what I desire to do. This last one-buying many different books on theology and philosophy. The last one not easily showing anything. For me, doing much studying about emergent church which supposes learning and understanding quite a bit of philosophy-just see where most who have no conception of philosophy will be unable to answer emergent/liberal Christianity
@Creationcreed The end result being-anyone can try to learn how to study the bible, go to church, or even buy some Christian books. For the lost, this is never a long life endeavour as it also has been my experiance-those lost will not continue in righteousness. I can fake the func on a lot of things-faith and righteousness is not one anyone can fake for a long time. Lost people never last in these-they either get saved or quit.
@Creationcreed Of course, forgot about this when writing last night-God's Spirit consoling with ours that we are the sons(and daughters) of God. Here is something else-in 2004, I was the first one to be wounded in my unit. When the chaplain arrived as we got news about another soldier in my unit was wounded in an IED attack in Mosul-he asked me if he could pray for me.
@Creationcreed I told him no, I want to pray as I did this crying(adrenelin from the attack waring off) and in tears prayed for my friend and the rest of the personnel in my Troop/Squadron. Again-lost people could do the same-hatred for God and not love for God will be revealed. I tend to think this way-we cannpot rely on ourselves. God will spurn you to different actions and ideas such as this-I did not plan on being wounded or forbidding the chaplain to pray for me but pray for others.
Do Calvinists even have assurance of Salvation? Because you don't know if you are saved until the End right? If you fall away then it means you were never saved in the first place. So you don't know the future if you will fall or not so you don't know if you are saved.
@hermanogflores This is your own imaginative assumptions and not anything I ever heard a Calvinist teach. I do not presume to speak for your faith-do not presume to to speak for mine.
15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheeps clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. 16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? 17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
WHOSOEVER WILL..eliminates Calvin and hit nutty bucket of false doctrine. Based on CALVIN, the elect will come...they have NO choice!
John 3:15-16 says pretty much the same thing. Whosoever will maybe saved. the ELECT has nothing to do with it.
Paul said, I endure all things for the elect sake.He suffered not subjectively but with purpose.I go evangelize everyday ( sorry three to four times a week at the university) I would not go unless I knew God has an elect people
you go for the wrong reason! you go because God said go...not because of the elect sake. You are so hung up on a lie that you probably believe Obama is a good president as well!!
Yea the self rigeous motive is better.Judging people politically you don't know.The difference between me and you is you nassume alot about peolpe I assume believe God will do whart He has said.You lost all credibility by the Obama comment
and according to calvinism, God is only gave to save the elect; so there is NO need to preach it to the elect. they will get saved one way or the other; as God elected and God can not lie; all the elect have to do is think about God and God must save them, as God can not like and Calvinism teaches that only the elect can be saved. Calvinis is a stupid teaching believe by silly fools ladened with sin.
@gradyhenley Opinions are not facts. Perceptions is not truth. Assumptions and false accusations does not make your views valid but rather invalidates. When I evangelize-I do because Christ commanded as did Paul. I go because the Spirit of God constrains me to Go. Love for others and the lost formed in us as we are conformed to the image of Christ and love those whom God loves
@gradyhenley Preaching to the elect-I see this over and over again-this violates what is plainly taught in the scriptures as the foolishness of preaching is the God ordained way for people to get saved. I always find it interesting so many assumptions are made about Calvinists that we have to believe this or act on that based on assumptions.
@gradyhenley In other words-your judgements are based on your thinking-your logic-not what people actually say or believe. As often, I see the same assumptions and challange for resources-never see any given. The point being-can you show me a Calvinist author or preacher who teaches any of the things you say we teach? I highly doubt you will give a resource.
Calvinism is a stupid doctrine. Did you note the double standard in what these deluded nuts proclaimed?
2 Pet 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
Whoever belives in free will should be out there seven days a week .Let a doctrine be wrong show me the fruit of your convictions.If its all about choice you must hand out alot of tracts
@polopowers1 I dont see how that makes any difference to whether calvinsim is true or not for Christ said to make disciples of all nations regardless.
So, you calvinisnt ought to be doing the same thing as the means to save the elect is through preaching the gospel. Do you not want all the elect to be saved of can you sit back and relax knowing God will save them anyway?
God doesn't tell us who the elect are, so that is why we preach to everyone.
Like God needs you to reach the elect. That answer doesn't hold true to the idea of a sovereign God. Also, under a total sovereign God, people don't reject God, God predestines people to act, and reject him.
Read the Gospels in earnest, I highly doubt any of you Calvinists will actually come to the conclusion of the five points of Calvinism.
read the gospel? The gospels were written by men with an Old Testament mentality...they thought Jesus would reestablish the Jewish Kingdome IMMEDIATELY! See Act 1:6.
Anyone that accepts Calvinism as the truth would also believe Obama is a great president as well...
Ephesians 2:8-10 "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them."
Charlie4Jesus 1 day ago
John 1:12-13 "But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, the gave the right to become children of God, who wwere born, not of blood NOR OF THE WILL OF THE FLESH NOR OF THE WILL OF MAN, but of God."
Charlie4Jesus 1 day ago
Predestination is scriptural, but Calvinists overlook one thing. God predestined all His children to eternal life but not the children of the devil. The devil has also children (The parable of the wheat and the tare).
God does not pick from random and choose whom he want to save and whom He don't want to save. All the children of God descended from Adam, the son of God. All of the children of the devil descended from Cain, the son of the devil.
jundurias 3 weeks ago
Man is sinful I do admit, but what we forget is that all our names are in the book of life. This means that we all have the way to salvation through repentance. Once we live our lives in sin, deny God and Our Savior Jeshua. This is when we are taken out of the book, until we find him again.
AnnisaAyana 1 month ago
Why would Calvinists evangelize? Becuase we are commanded to. Jesus Himself, commanded us to go into all the world and preach the Good News. Why did the Isrealites march around Jericho? They were told God would bring them the victory, but nevertheless, were commanded to do march and sing. God knew the victory would be theirs and they knew it too. This is the same thing. We evangelize because we are His obedient instruments to bring forth His Church unto Him.
johe64 3 months ago
@johe64, We evangelize because because the elect are lost and they need to hear the gospel, believe the gospel, repent of their sins and must be born again to be saved.
It is true that Jesus commanded His disciples to evangelize, but the purpose is for the elect to be regenerated.
jundurias 3 weeks ago
Why evangelize? We are commanded to. We are to used as God's tools, so to say, in bringing others to salvation.
simplyjacobe 3 months ago
You preach the gospel for the sake of the elect, Pauls own words. You preach and leave the saving up to god.
RTMinistriesTV 4 months ago
Could these videos possibly have french subtitles!!
Plaisir09 4 months ago
Comment removed
FitnessMinded 5 months ago
@FitnessMinded Why would God choose me, a complete sinner, to be His child? I don't deserve ANY of God's mercy or grace. Every time I think about God's choosing this busted vessel, I cry... I am filled with thankfulness, awe and wonder. I think why me and not someone else? Also, I would much rather have The God of Creation have my salvation in His hands than in mine, wouldn't you? And now, I feel much more responsible to be obedient to His call on my life!
johe64 3 months ago
@johe64, You might be a sinner but you deserve His mercy and grace. Why? Because you are a son of God. You might be a lost sheep but nevertheless you are a sheep.
God will save all His children.
jundurias 3 weeks ago
@FitnessMinded Why would God choose me, a complete sinner, to be His child? I don't deserve ANY of God's mercy or grace. Every time I think about God's choosing this busted vessel, I cry... I am filled with thankfulness, awe and wonder. I think why me and not someone else?
johe64 3 months ago
@FitnessMinded Why would God choose me, a complete sinner, to be His child? I don't deserve ANY of God's mercy or grace. Every time I think about God's choosing this busted vessel, I cry... I am filled with thankfulness, awe and wonder. I think why me and not someone else? I would rather have God in charge of my salvation than me--wouldn't you?
johe64 3 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
I like how this video calls the freewill gospel food for goats. We like to call it Gummy Bear theology. It will give you sumthin to chew on, but it has no spiritual nutrition to live on.
brotherRonHurst 5 months ago
also, perhaps some are confusing God's prescience with His will. just because God knows what i will do in the next few moments (or all moments for that matter) does not mean that He causes me to do them or that i have no choice but to do those things because of some immutable law of cwross1976 behaviour set down by God at the outset. to sum up i believe in freewill, i believe that even as wicked as people are they can and do open their eyes and decide, selflessly even, to accept christ.
cwross1976 6 months ago
the short answer is 'no, evangelism is unnecessary'. the long answer is because if people are chosen by God then they will eventually come to know christ et cetera as God foresaw, and nothing that anyone could say or do in the meantime, positive or negative could change that fact. that said i must respectfully reject this calvinism as the imperfect interpretation of people. God is alot of things, most of all fair. if He created me without any chance of salavation that just seems wrong.
cwross1976 6 months ago
I'm a Calvinist myself but I too have recognized there is a very proud attitude among many Calvinists and it's easy to fall into this kind of sin because of the great theology.i myself have sinned this way as way, but the Lord is working in me to communicate in gentleness and respect towards others.I think John Piper wrote something about being a nicer Calvinist.
GodLovesUs100 6 months ago
I find very few examples among Calvinists who started out as Calvinists in their Christian walk. The vast majority seem to have arrived at that systematic understanding of the bible after careful study of scripture. Every last one of them has described embracing the doctrines of grace as something like a wrestling match with the truth - with God's magnificence ultimately capturing their heart vs. their pride and the attitudes and philosophy of Aristotle & finally understanding the difference.
repeater1975 6 months ago
how hard the Calvinists try; the fact of the matter remains to be answered...why bother evangelism...even why bother Cross if God was the author of sin and that from eternity past, he had already determined the number of people to be saved...what is the use of Cross? What kind of a lunatic would God be? Calvinists God surely looks a one lunatic who is playing games that are so stupid and senseless
brbhatta 9 months ago
I freely admit, that Calvinist's actions don't always seem to match their theology. They evangelize, defend the gospel, and many other things that doesn't seem to reflect one who believes that salvation has already been predestined and guaranteed. However, it is the actions of many Calvinists that show that they are truly servants of our Lord Jesus Christ. So, while as a student of Orthodoxy, I do have doctrinal disagreements, I also freely admit that Calvinists are truly Christian.
michael34453 11 months ago
The Calvinist concept is bibilical but the thing that causes it to be logically flawed is a false premise based on an old primitive understanding of Gods perception of time, the natue of time and events. They presuppose that if God knows all their is no freewill but this primitive understanding has been refutes by mathmatics and quatum reality.
LogosTheos 11 months ago
@LogosTheos , Predestination is scriptural but Calvinism has many flaws. All people have freewill. Election is relative to God, while free will is relative to man. All God's chldren will be saved but the devils children will not be saved(The parable of the wheat and the tare).
Both will hear the gospel. The Wheat will choose to believe, while the Tare will choose not to believe.
jundurias 3 weeks ago
@jundurias Calvinism doesn't deny free will. We do deny that man can choose God without God giving grace to do so.
Jeremiah 13:23 "Can the Ethiopian change his skin
or the leopard his spots?
Then also you can do good
who are accustomed to do evil."
We have free will of spontaneity, not free will of indifference. Show me anywhere where it talks about free-will and mans free-choice in the bible please.
Charlie4Jesus 1 day ago
@Charlie4Jesus , 1. You are contradicting yourself. You said that you don't deny free will, Then you asked me to show in the bible where it talks about free will. It proves that you are confused.
2. You don't understand Jer 13:23 and you quote it incorrectly. It should read "Neither also you can do good who are accustomed to do evil."
jundurias 9 hours ago
We should evangelize to show our love for Christ.
YesYou123333 11 months ago
I understand that it's God who draws people to salvation and repentance and that he has chosen who he saves and who he doesn't. In light of all this, when I witness to someone and they ask me what they can do to be saved, how do I answer them?
TheMsMelodysong 1 year ago
@TheMsMelodysong
Read the entire context of these passages, God draws all men thru HS... Calvinism is a man's doctrine that causes confusion and is illogical. You don't answer them if the Calvinist's god is true, it doesn't matter if they preach the gospel because God will save who He's predestined to save whether you preach or not. Westboro Baptist are consistent Calvinists--just preaching that everyone's going to hell b/c God will save His elect in their view no matter what they preach.
droptozro 1 year ago
youre supposed to tell us which bible you are quoting from. if you do some research on a lot of the different bibles (NIV or King James for example) some of the newer bibles are using the wrong words in what they consider an attempt to make the bible use more modern english, but people who study the differences can tell you that the new translations often end up using words that cause contradictions.
nashnwo1234 1 year ago
I apologise I take it all back 'the word perfect is used' but not in the content that some people here have been quoting it. ie 'yeshualovesme' coming off with using the word pure and talking about perfect in the same breath.
Perfect means - walked upright before God, blameless, without spot etc but does not mean in any shape or form sinless.
lovethecaribbean1 1 year ago
Blameless and spotless means sinless dude. What could it mean otherwise? Blameless and spotless is the exact requirements the Messiah had to fulfill. So why then does Job know man needs an intercessor if he is blameless and spotless because of his own deeds. Again, like I said before. He was seen as righteous because of his faith and reliance on God alone! Please explan how all the requirements for blood sacrifice in The OT had to have animals that were spotless. Seriously, give some logic first
yeshualovesme1 1 year ago
John Says, "He who says he hath no sin lies, for he does not have the Spirit" Jesus said, Those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, while be filled. In Job we see that Job says, "If only there was an intercessor" Job was for God and he desired no sin, he live for God in all he did. He was not about himself and his riches. We see time and time again in the NT that OT characyers were counted as righteous because they believed God. It is the same today, Faith is what makes one righteous!
yeshualovesme1 1 year ago
@pricelesspam Noah's generations were perfect. Think about it his whole family line is the one talked about in Genesis until he is mentioned. His generations mean his bloodline was without nephilim blood! untainted=perfect in his generations
yeshualovesme1 1 year ago
@yeshualovesme1
No they were not perfect - Noah walked right before God. If they were using your word perfect sin wouldn't have continued to be an issue for the human race. I don't know where you are getting your understanding from but it sure isn't from your pastor. If you think you are right in your odd thinking then do this.
Print of your comments to people from this youtube page and show your pastor!
lovethecaribbean1 1 year ago
@lovethecaribbean1 I dont think you understood me. I was saying that Noah was NOT perfect! His bloodline was without Nephilim blood! That;s all I was saying. No man has ever lived a perfect life, save Jesus Himself. I hope that clears it up. I said that Noah was perfect in His generations, meaning His bloodline was not tainted by the fallen angels offspring, the Nephilim.
yeshualovesme1 1 year ago
@yeshualovesme1 What is perfect?do u think Adam was perfect?if so then how could he have been deceived in he first place,and how about the fact he was created in such a way that he could be tricked or fooled.He also had many needs and weaknesses,such as a need for food ,sleep etc.To me perfect could mean blameless.Only God is all ;powerful,man was created with weakness from the start.Thus he needs God,who is all powerful.
pricelesspam 1 year ago
@yeshualovesme1 U do realize Job is refered to as being perfect in the Bible.Perfect i think means blameless not ALL POWERFUL Here.
pricelesspam 1 year ago
@pricelesspam I am not sure if you are understanding me correctly. I never said any man was "all powerful." Please explain what you mean.
yeshualovesme1 1 year ago
@pricelesspam
The word perfect is not used. Will people please stop putting in words that are unscriptural and start using bible study materials for greek and hebrew. Its not hard - it can be done on-line
lovethecaribbean1 1 year ago
@lovethecaribbean1 The word perfect is subjective,almost like the word beautiful,one persons idea of what perfect means,might be alot different than someone elses,Perfect is used in many Bibles,King James in fact.
please read
Job1:1
There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright,and one that feared God,and eschewed evil.
Some other BIBLE TRANSLATION REPLACE THE WORD PERFECT FOR BLAMELESS.
pricelesspam 1 year ago
@yeshualovesme1 So u think everyone accept Noah had nephilim blood,that is your answer,well others besides Noah where called righteous before God too so your deduction does not answer my question effectively.Your opinion is not Biblical from what it looks like.Research it yourselve.
pricelesspam 1 year ago
@pricelesspam Dude its all in the bible. If you really think about it every man spoken about in the Genesis as righteous, were Noah's direct Ancestors. From Adam to Enoch to Lamech, to Methuselah. They were not only spoken of because they were in good with God, but because they were undefiled. By the time Noah was around, he may not have been the only "pureblood" so to speak. But he was the only pureblood who lived for and believe in God. Just like today, no one is perfect!
yeshualovesme1 1 year ago
@yeshualovesme1
What on earth on you getting off with this so called pure blood. Theres no such thing as pure blood. God never mentioned it. From the fall of Adam sin entered all men.
And your contradicting Gods word - Noah was the only righteous man around in those days thats why God saved him and his family.
lovethecaribbean1 1 year ago
@lovethecaribbean1 Do you know what Generations mean in the bible? Noyt once does generations mean anythng but family line. Noah was "perfect in his geberations. it says it plainly in the bible, check it out. Genesis chapter 6
yeshualovesme1 1 year ago
@yeshualovesme1
WRONG AGAIN! I SUGGEST TO EVERYONE HERE ON THIS PAGE NOT TO COMMUNICATE WITH YOU AS LONGER AS YOUR UNDERSTANDING IS MILKY AND SOMEWHAT UNSTABLE. AS MY PASTOR SAID YOU PROBADLY DON'T EVEN GO TO CHURCH.
lovethecaribbean1 1 year ago
@lovethecaribbean1 I go to church. I actually lead worship at 2 churches. One on Saturday and then my home church on Sunday. My nhomw church is Merced First baptist. We are not however a regualr baptist church. we broke off because our affiliation was trying to require us to allow gays in the pulpit, so we decided to break away a few years ago. My Patorate consists of 4 awesome bible teachers. I don't go around spouting off about these things at church, but I still believe that it is true.
yeshualovesme1 1 year ago
@lovethecaribbean1 Also even if it is not true, you cannot believe that Noah or any other nman was perfect. So how do you reconcile that God used the word Perfect to describe Noah, if he was a sinner just like us? Just a logical question. Bu hey, rather than belittling each other why dont we talk about scripture. I wouldlike to understand where you are coming from and show you where i come from. I have a very extensive knowledge of scripture, not to mention my faith rests solely on JesusChrist
yeshualovesme1 1 year ago
@yeshualovesme1 Hi,i think u mean well.give me your take om this scripture please.
Job1:8
Then the LORDsaid to Satan,"Have you comsidered my servant Job?There is no one on earth like him;he is blameless and upright,a man who fears God and shuns evil."
Now my question is to u if man is so called totally depraved ,why would God be bragging on Job to Satan?
God himself looks like he is saying Job is upright and blameless,and hates evil.
pricelesspam 1 year ago
@pricelesspam I would like your take please on
Job 1:8
pricelesspam 1 year ago
Did I ever say that all would be saved - I think not. But the call is for all. If your witnessing was correct 98% of those who said they were saved would admit that they aren't saved. So may be there's something wrong with your witnessing. I don't say this to discourage you continue with witnessing but make sure your saying the right thing. People who I have witnessed to have admitted that they are not saved or they mumble and hesitate when talking to them - they know there not saved.
lovethecaribbean1 1 year ago
Everyone should share the gospel, it is our commission from Christ Jesus, The problem today, is that preachers are not preaching the gospel. Who knows who is to be saved and who is not? I found that in witnessing to others 98% of everyone I talk to is saved, they've been told that by preacher who have no idea how to preach the gospel.They are saved by baptism, membership or works but not by repentance or believing in who Christ really is. In American Christianity The church looks like the world.
GregoryD57 1 year ago
I don't believe in calvinism - so what if Whitfield was a calvanist - doesn't mean he was right!
When Christ was dying it is written that he took upon himself the sin of the whole world - not the elect!
And another - desires that ALL would be saved.
lovethecaribbean1 1 year ago
@lovethecaribbean1 Christ died as a "propitiation" for the sin of the world. But not all sin was atoned for. The word atonement is only 800 years old. It means At-one-with Christ. No one with a brain could say that all sins were atoned for. If that were the case, even people in Hel would be "at one" with Christ. Not true! propitiation has the same meaning that blood scarifices had in the OT. It was a covering, not payment. Jesus was the payment for all who would be saved, but he covered all sin
yeshualovesme1 1 year ago
@yeshualovesme1
Jesus's blood was not a covering like in the O/T. Christ blood atoned for all sin, Christ blood was better than that of animals. His blood has washed away all punishment for sin.
You have to respond to the call of salvation and repentance to be adopted into his family and enter into heaven. In regards to hell there is no one in hell at the moment - that is reserved for satan and the demons and all who refused the love of Christ.
lovethecaribbean1 1 year ago
@lovethecaribbean1 So you are saying that everyone in hell is AT-ONE-WITH CHRIST? AT-ONE-WITH CHRIST is waht Atonement means! So are people in hell one wth Christ? Come on!
yeshualovesme1 1 year ago
@yeshualovesme1
Your playing with words and making no sense whatsoever - your making yourself look stupid.
Atonement does not 'mean at one with christ' look up the meaning in word study and if your not in a bible study group you need to start attending with not just the bible but the bible with word study of hebrew and greek.
Done talk
lovethecaribbean1 1 year ago
@lovethecaribbean1 I have Atonement is a new word. It was made in the 1200 to explain being at one with Christ. And I am stupid!
yeshualovesme1 1 year ago
@lovethecaribbean1 Encyclopedia atonement - atonement, the reconciliation, or “at-one-ment,” of sinful humanity with God. In Judaism both the Bible and rabbinical thought reflect the belief that God's chosen people must be pure to remain in communion with God. William Tyndale made the word, here is the meaning, why he made the word. Atonement — a word whose pronunciation disguises its meaning, which is literally at one ment, a bringing to unity, a reconciliation of that which is estranged’
yeshualovesme1 1 year ago
@yeshualovesme1
Your using wrong research material - ask your pastor for the study material he used as bible college. You'll find it is not the encyclopedia that they used!
lovethecaribbean1 1 year ago
@lovethecaribbean1 Not all pastors can not be trusted.Trust God only.
pricelesspam 1 year ago
@pricelesspam
I know that but you have to cross reference with the word of God and do correct bible study with the right study materials.
lovethecaribbean1 1 year ago
@lovethecaribbean1 ONLY FOR THOSE WHO BELIEVE IT. Everyone is not saved automatically if that were true Christ need not come and die at all.
GregoryD57 1 year ago
@yeshualovesme1
It is still the case that Christ died for ALL.
lovethecaribbean1 1 year ago
@lovethecaribbean1 FOR ALL THAT WOULD EXCEPT HIM. REPENT, BELIEVE IN WHO HE IS. BUT SADLY ENOUGH NOT ALL WILL DO SO.
GregoryD57 1 year ago
Calvinists, you give Christians everywhere a terrible name.
Giantsbran1227 1 year ago
@Giantsbran1227 What's wrong with the frozen chosen?
yarrw 1 year ago
@Giantsbran1227 Christ died as a "propitiation" for the sin of the world. But not all sin was atoned for. The word atonement is only 800 years old. It means At-one-with Christ. No one with a brain could say that all sins were atoned for. If that were the case, even people in Hel would be "at one" with Christ. Not true! propitiation has the same meaning that blood scarifices had in the OT. It was a covering, not payment. Jesus was the payment for all who would be saved, but he covered all sin!
yeshualovesme1 1 year ago
amen
blindside4life 1 year ago
Why is it that Calvinists act like goats?
LiberalsAndChurls 1 year ago
@LiberalsAndChurls Real believers don't. It is true that some who believe calvinism would use "election" as a badge to say that I can sin if I ant to because i am one of the elect. This is not a true believer. Atrue believer desires no sin in their life, and the hinger and thirst for righteousness. Calvinism should really be just called Biblical, but it is not a liscense to sin, by any means. Those who feel that way are probably not the elect, like they think they are!
yeshualovesme1 1 year ago
That's just it, the church today is more of an entertainment center rather then a church. No messages that convict or hurt feelings.The Gospel is truth, the truth always hurts especially those comfortable in their sins. The church today helps them feel justified in their sin. America's modern day churches are harlots. The pastors are either spineless or they're ignorant of the gospel. Sad, but true.The will of man is what keeps him from God.They want salvation but on only their terms.
GregoryD57 1 year ago
@GregoryD57 I don't know about everyone else, but finding out just how tainted i was compared to what God desires was pretty offensive to me at first, then I realized it was true and wanted God grace!
yeshualovesme1 1 year ago
"His [Calvin's] religion was demonism. If ever man worshiped a false God, he did. The being described in his five points is ... a demon of malignant spirit. It would be more pardonable to believe in no God at all, than to blaspheme him by the atrocious attributes of Calvin" (Works, Vol. iv., p. 363). -Thomas Jefferson
greyswans 1 year ago
Romans 11:20-22 (King James Version) 20Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: 21For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. 22Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. This verse is enough .
u2bMODERATOR 1 year ago
Thank the Lord for Dave Hunt, What love is this ? refuting Calvinism.
savedbygrace1972 1 year ago
Calvinists are some of the scariest Christians I've ever met. Give me the Jehovah's Witnesses or Mormons any day of the week.
Nepthu 1 year ago
@Nepthu Maybe "scary" because you can't answer their arguments confidently.
LaneCh 1 year ago
@LaneCh Why doe sman have a conciense if he is totally depraved?
pricelesspam 1 year ago
@pricelesspam totally depraved means you have no chnace at being righteous in God's eyes. If you recall in Genesis before the fall, Adam and Eve knew good. It was after they snned that they knew evil. One tiny bit of evil is enough to be destined for hell. We can know what is good and try to act accordingly, but the moment we sin, all of our good deeds mean absolutely nothing, hence, we are totally depraved from true righteousness!
yeshualovesme1 1 year ago
@yeshualovesme1 Have u read the entire Bible?Explain this verse to me.
Genesis 7:1
And the LORD said unto Noah,Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation.
pricelesspam 1 year ago
@pricelesspam It means what it says. God only saw what could be called righteousness in Noah's house, his family. The rest were sinful and God being just, sentenced all others to death, just as in revelations it will be and just as today is. God never changes, man changes, then tries to change God.
GregoryD57 1 year ago
@GregoryD57 I thought you said man had no chance of being looked at as righteous before God,because after the fall man became as you say totally depraved.There are many other instances where men are called righteous in the Bible.Do an online study please,so i dont have to send u proof.
pricelesspam 1 year ago
@pricelesspam You can get a much better idea what that means when you read Genesis 6:4 and verse 9. Verse4 There were giants on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men and they bore children to them.Then verse 9 "This is the genealogy of Noah. Noah was a just man, perfect in his generations."
yeshualovesme1 1 year ago
@LaneCh Haha, right on. I love the very end @ 9:54. "A wise non-believer is going to say, 'Well, if God loves me the way I am, why should I change?'" Haha, so true. We need to stop preaching compromised scripture and start teaching the scripture the way it was meant to be taught.
jwdonal 11 months ago
@LaneCh
You do know that's not what he means.
DanPrinMan 10 months ago
@LaneCh
why bother preach LaneCh? or should I say the elect-one.
changeishere2008 9 months ago
You are right, the niv has passages left out, mentions hell only twice,etc, but just read the greek early bible. quick verse for Windows has them all.You can take your pick, because I have their entire package.So use the early Greek and just translate it, goes back way before the kj of 1610.Then for the ot, read the early, early one and translate it yourself. It's all there.
nld1960 1 year ago
@Nepthu I'm neither Arminian or Calvinist, as I refuse to accept doctrinal systems created outside of the Bible and instead prefer to read it myself and see what it says. However, I can honestly say that I believe Calvinists tend to read and view scripture more fully and understand the true nature of what it's saying than most Arminians do. I'm under the belief that the gospel and our required response to it has been totally misrepresented in this church culture. "Easy Believism" comes to mind.
shipleyshipster 8 months ago
@shipleyshipster Spot on sir. Im in the same boat as you. Looking forward to seeing you in heaven. I myself want to understand the bible more and live my life carrying my cross daily. I discern every teaching i hear and tend not to listen to the BIG preachers.
jonathanadamski 7 months ago
I evangelize because God commanded me to do so.God knows whom He will save I don't nothing is changed. Free will or election no difference the evangelist goes out in suspense of seeing God's will.The difference I go out knowing God has an election and I can be part of that affection by submitting to God to be a part.This is really a straw man argument,evangelize by command or affection. God's election only helps because I don't persuade anyone
polopowers1 1 year ago
@polopowers1 But why has God commanded us?
John 3:17 Jesus came to save not condemn.
So the unction is not just one of obedience but one of life and death. God desires that all men repent and be saved.
You say you dont persuade anyone but this was not the attitude of the Apostle Paul in his service to Christ
Corinthians 5:11 Knowing, therefore, the terror of the Lord, we PERSUADE men; but we are well known to God, and I also trust are well known in your consciences.
prn72271 1 year ago
@prn72271 What did Paul persuade? "The terror of the Lord" not of salvation.Salvation is of the Lord not of the workings of men.A man can be convinced God as a terror and never be saved
polopowers1 1 year ago
@polopowers1,
Verse 20 of the same chapter
20 Now then, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were pleading through us: we implore you on Christ’s behalf, be reconciled to God. 21 For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.
prn72271 1 year ago
@prn72271 So I implore it improves no ones chance to be saved
polopowers1 1 year ago
Hebrew 6 : 4For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
It means that the elects , or those who has proven , can also reject it is clearer than Romans.
u2bMODERATOR 1 year ago
@u2bMODERATOR why not complete the quote with verse 9 Hebrews 6:9 But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak. - that is, those of verses 4ff are not saved ! they only were enlightened to the truth etc but they return to the vomit which they prefer 2 Pe 2:21-22 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than..to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
suprathelapsarian 1 year ago
@suprathelapsarian No, friend , you are wrong. According to Calvinism the holy spirit is only given to chosen ones. and the verse says :", and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost", It means YES the saved. Also if you believe in this that you said , Calvin is in the hell right now, because he burned Servet premeditatedly, which means he had an evil heart, a sign ( according to Calvinism) that he has not been convinced by the Spirit . Which also means that You follow the doctrine of a lost one.
u2bMODERATOR 1 year ago
Ok i can agree if you say that we can preach the Gospel to all because we don´t know who will accept . But why Jesus came , so? If God has chosen since the beginning , the death of Christ was in vain or a simple palliative to improve the show with a dramatic scene . The bible says in john 1 , that He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him.It meand the grace was not irresistible to his OWN. .
u2bMODERATOR 1 year ago
since i don't subscribe to reformed tenant of limited atonement, i think we should preach the Gospel to the whole world because Jesus dies for the sins of the world, not just the sins of the elect. that's a much better reason than because we don't know who the elect are.
roaringwaterbay 1 year ago
so I still dont understand how people can read Ephesians 2:8 and still have this debate, please Armenians answer?
JRayMalcolm 1 year ago
@JRayMalcolm well I am no armenian but that scripture says that SALVATION IS THE GIFT and it comes through grace by faith and salvation didnt come to you by any of your "good works". ex - giving to the poor, being a good husband, keeping the commandments.
prn72271 1 year ago
@prn72271 yes and no calvanist would deny any of that... but there is a diffrence between "good works" and sin. if you disobey the ten commandments you are most likely sinning but the Bible never says not giving to the poor is a sin, it is a work done as a result of our salvation not for our salvation. on a side note, I can only assume what "prn" means in your name but if it is what I think it is you should probably examine your heart before starting theological debates on youtube, or change it
JRayMalcolm 1 year ago
@JRayMalcolm
"but if it is what I think it is"
It would seem that it is you who should be examining your heart for the thought came from your heart not mine. Think what you want, i am not changing anything, You and an rude UNBELIEVER are the only two persons to think such filth.
Pure and simple believing or chosing is not good works.
prn72271 1 year ago
@prn72271 well im glad its not but you obviously understood it too, there's really not too many thing that it could stand for and Im just saying it may put off the wrong signals.
but choosing/ being elected has little to do with works and much more to do with our ability to overcome sin, humans are sinful by nature, so how could we save our selfs or play any role in that salvation? and how can an armenian explain Ephesians 2:8? I think the Bible is extremely clear....
JRayMalcolm 1 year ago
@JRayMalcolm I only understood it because an unrepentant sinner brought it to my attention. It never once came into my mind prior to that as they are simply my initials.
Ephesians 2:8 says that salvation is the gift of God.
No one is implying that man can save himself but Romans 1 states clearly that man can suppress the truth.
How can one lean to the belief that if a baby is raped it was ordained by God. What foolishness and direspect to My God!
prn72271 1 year ago
@prn72271 k,thats fine with me.I was just asking a question, not accusing you of anything. and of course man suppresses the truth because the truth is in everyone yet not everyone is a believer. but they also cant believe without God. and with all respect I care nothing for "your god" I only care what the Bible says, and though God may not have caused the rape of a baby, He didn't stop it either. and ultimately God uses even sin for His glory...
JRayMalcolm 1 year ago
2:28-2:33 That would mean that preaching the gospel to the lost will make things worse for them. The 'indictment' will be more serious and therefore their punishment. So preaching the gospel is not a very charitable thing to do.
BesACB 1 year ago
Umm...eybrows and beard.
thepiratelarry 1 year ago
This is a gross dustortion of reality. There were plenty of Wesleyans out there along side Whitfield et al. God either meant He came for the whole world or he didn't.
VictorLepanto 1 year ago
Good video on evangelisim! I agree with all exept the calvinist view, Still your brother in the Field, Josephus
josephus81 1 year ago
Pure heresy!!!! Sharaaaah
lavigne943 1 year ago
A colossal betrayal is taking place under the auspices of Christianity. This betrayal is easily proven by one verse of Sacred Scripture, I Peter 4:18, “And if the righteous [referring to church members] scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?” These words teach that extremely few from the tens of thousands of church congregations across America and around the world will stand with Jesus Christ in the end of time. "If thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments."
utopiandesign 1 year ago
Even if historical Protestantism rose to the forefront their message is still contaminated with papal dogma. The reason the dumbing down of Christianity is so widespread is due to the two oxymorons permeating the church. 1. Teaching that all who reject the "love" of Jesus will be rewarded with flesh burning torture for all eternity. 2. Teaching the first day of the week as vital to human survival when not a single Bible verse gives sanction to Sunday sacredness, the oldest pagan tradition.
utopiandesign 1 year ago
If free will is true why evangelize to interrupt their free will? Will not free will find God? A free will that can send God away would demean Christ making an offer to a depraved perverted sinner.Free will cannot demean God's purpose!
polopowers1 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Portraits revolutionized the world.
Before that, it took three nails to hang jebus.
Now you can do it with just one…..;OP
85% of people believe in god.
100% of them have no idea why.
4me2cclearly 1 year ago
Isaiah 26:12
LORD, you establish peace for us; all that we have accomplished you have done for us.
MODERATECALVINISM 1 year ago
i am an autonomous being. thank you. i will scrutinize your god and your doctrines. it is through critical thinking, and reason that someone should choose.
anthonyergo 1 year ago
.God does not sell the gospel and he doesn't need salesmen. He doesn't need anyone. WE are the grateful recipients of God's unmerited favor through Christ Jesus. We are empowered by the Holy Spirit and preserved and sealed until the day of redemption. We have this blessed hope that one day our bridegroom will come and call us from the air and so shall we ever be with the LORD. Knowing that the LORD of Hosts is Sovereign in His election made Noah bold for 120 yrs. without a convert. Think on this
reginaDexant 1 year ago
The answer to your title: Becus God can use Evangelism as a way to save those He ought to save.
intoxicatedjig 1 year ago
One of your leading Calvinist fathers James White believes that child rape is from God. Do you see how sick and twisted that is? Child rape. Did you know that child molesters are the lowest scum in jail and get beaten to a pulp regularly if not killed? Calvinists believe that child rape is from God. You have not only spit in God's face, but you have counted him among the child molesters. Woe unto you! Repent!
mikaelstoneface 1 year ago
@mikaelstoneface Arminians believe something far worse, that God sees child rape and just sits back and watches as though he cannot do anything......the terrible things in the world are testimonies to how wicked sin is and how fallen and depraved we are(end of romants 1 into 2 codemns you for everything, it is by Gods grace we do anything good and therefore still sin in itself that we take credit and establish our egos from it)
eyeztothesky 1 year ago
@mikaelstoneface Atleast the believer in Gods providence can believe God was in control over these evil hearts and that he brought it to pass for good and not evil. Otherwise those children could grow up saying "God why didnt you save me from that situation" that situation happened in the wisdom of God, rather then for us to sit back and say "the world is a mess and God is not in control"....Even an arminian believes God "allowed it" for good, to grace believers that is how he brought it to pass
eyeztothesky 1 year ago
@mikaelstoneface The devil is withstrained like we see in job, he needs permission from God to do evil......God brings evil to pass not by permitting it or pushing someone to do it, he allows it......that is total depravity, God doesnt allow men to be as evil as they could be either
eyeztothesky 1 year ago
@mikaelstoneface The liberation of Gods providence shows us that God is not inspired by events(this mans going to rape this person, hmm I wonder if I can get some good out of that) No they can say like Joseph said to his brothers Genesis 50:20
"As for you, you meant evil against me, but God meant it for good
eyeztothesky 1 year ago
Here's another question, and I hope you take it as more rhetorical because I can no longer stand your stupid Satanic answers. You are enemies of the cross and you're going to pay for it if you don't repent. If you believe that it's God's will that people should be sick or possessed by demons to teach them a lesson, then why cast the demons out? Would you not then be getting in the way of God's 'Sovereign' work?
mikaelstoneface 1 year ago
A good rule of thumb: If what we do in life points to Jesus, our ministry is true. If what we do in life points to men or anything else for that matter, our ministry is false and it's time to repent.
Here's a question: do you have the Holy Ghost? Do you believe that you can have a conversation with God? If so, then ask Him yourself if Calvinism is something He endorses.
mikaelstoneface 1 year ago
Your Calvinist religion is disastrous to people's faith. I bet most of you who are now Calvinists began with a true love for God, but then went to Seminary or Bible College and your faith in Jesus Christ and his teachings were pulverized by a bunch of dry old men who sit on their high horse and demand that all men come to them for the answers. This is why Satan devises these false religions, so that you will take your attention off God and come to rely upon men to interpret scripture.
mikaelstoneface 1 year ago
The biggest threat to individuals is churches teaching them that they are saved as long as they accept Jesus and abide by the church's doctrines......this is dangerous
Jacobrester 1 year ago
Heretics
1VisionaryMissionary 1 year ago
calvinism ranks right beside islam as being ungodly and evil.
gradyhenley 1 year ago
To obey God
greatnewsnetwork 1 year ago
God has predestined the vast majority of makind to eternal torture. No thanks.
vozuluzov 1 year ago
The greatest revivals and evangelists involved those committed to Calvinism? Are these guys living in an alternate reality? What happened too Charles G. Finney, John Wesley, and William Seymour! This "Amazing Grace" is nothing more than an amazing fabrication of history as historically accurate as Mormonism! It is appalling that those who profess to call themselves "Christian" would use deception to validate their system of theology.
nbanuchu 1 year ago
I've been chosen/destined to be Arminian.
hermanogflores 1 year ago
Calvanist Evangelize because God has called us to. God did not only choose his elect but chose how those elect would come to him.
bradensmagic 1 year ago
I like some of these videos, but this one didn't answer the question. "Because we don't know who the elect are!" That doesn't change anything, because according to the doctrine of calvinism God will save them whether we are preaching or not.
Creationcreed 1 year ago
@Creationcreed Where did you get such an idea? What doctrine of Calvinism are you referring to, and where did you read it? God ordains not only the ends, but also the means. No one is saved apart from the preaching of the Word. Read Romans 10 carefully. We preach the gospel because we are commanded to do so. God uses the "foolishness of preaching" to save sinful men...could He have devised some other plan? Of course, but He did not.
pastorpapamike 1 year ago
@pastorpapamike You could say he ordains who will preach as well, right! He only commands the elect, but how do you know your the elect? Outward deeds? Yes, we can know if we are wholeheartedly following Christ and His Word, but we really don't know. We can THINK we are, based on what we know about being saved, but ultimately we don't from what I understand from calvinism.
Creationcreed 1 year ago
@Creationcreed Did John Calvin teach this or perhaps some other Calvinsit who taught this? Maybe after the death of Calvin 64 yrs after his death whom originated TULIP? I never taught this. Neither did D. James Kennedy a 5 point Calvinist who wrote on of the most popular books on evangelism called, "Evangelism Explosion". I tend to see this as an assumptive belief but not anything any Calvinist taught.
daveme7 1 year ago
@daveme7 No calvinist will teach that, but that is the natural conclusion. You really don't know who is saved. No one believes that everyone is TRULY saved until the end. With the otherside, you know someone is saved by their obedience. Obedience on the calvinist side is not exactly the determining factor, I found. How do you know someone is saved?
Creationcreed 1 year ago
@Creationcreed 19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
The Holy Bible : King James Version. 1995 (electronic ed. of the 1769 edition of the 1611 Authorized Version.) (1 Jn 2:19). Bellingham WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.
daveme7 1 year ago
@Creationcreed This one and last one Matt 7 18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
daveme7 1 year ago
@Creationcreed Last-read james 2. That gives a very good understanding of how to determine if someone is saved or not. Also in 1 John-much goes to teach this. Basically, what is the pattern of your life? Is it towards God or away from God.
daveme7 1 year ago
@daveme7 I know all that, but a person can appear to be saved. The Disciples didn't even know one of their own betrayed them. We can know to the best of our observation about others. As far as examining ourselves we can know WE are saved. Ultimately, we have to pray and rely on God's working on a person. You would agree with that.
Creationcreed 1 year ago
@Creationcreed Yes I do agree wit5h this. In my own experiance-it was two or three different differant things-one happening twice. First, when I was 12 and got saved-no "feelings" that I was saved(or lost) but basically a very deep desire to know God through his word at age 37 has yet to be fulfilled
daveme7 1 year ago
@Creationcreed The other in a similar way-a strong desire to be at church and in fellowship. In 1990 when I first joined the Marines-the same desire to fellowship with Christians. In Okinawa, Japan-quite often many away from home want to live differently as mama and papa ar no longer around to watch over you and make you go to church-it is you who decides.
daveme7 1 year ago
@Creationcreed These are the two I look at besides what I have done in life and what I desire to do. This last one-buying many different books on theology and philosophy. The last one not easily showing anything. For me, doing much studying about emergent church which supposes learning and understanding quite a bit of philosophy-just see where most who have no conception of philosophy will be unable to answer emergent/liberal Christianity
daveme7 1 year ago
@Creationcreed The end result being-anyone can try to learn how to study the bible, go to church, or even buy some Christian books. For the lost, this is never a long life endeavour as it also has been my experiance-those lost will not continue in righteousness. I can fake the func on a lot of things-faith and righteousness is not one anyone can fake for a long time. Lost people never last in these-they either get saved or quit.
daveme7 1 year ago
@Creationcreed Of course, forgot about this when writing last night-God's Spirit consoling with ours that we are the sons(and daughters) of God. Here is something else-in 2004, I was the first one to be wounded in my unit. When the chaplain arrived as we got news about another soldier in my unit was wounded in an IED attack in Mosul-he asked me if he could pray for me.
daveme7 1 year ago
@Creationcreed I told him no, I want to pray as I did this crying(adrenelin from the attack waring off) and in tears prayed for my friend and the rest of the personnel in my Troop/Squadron. Again-lost people could do the same-hatred for God and not love for God will be revealed. I tend to think this way-we cannpot rely on ourselves. God will spurn you to different actions and ideas such as this-I did not plan on being wounded or forbidding the chaplain to pray for me but pray for others.
daveme7 1 year ago
Do Calvinists even have assurance of Salvation? Because you don't know if you are saved until the End right? If you fall away then it means you were never saved in the first place. So you don't know the future if you will fall or not so you don't know if you are saved.
hermanogflores 1 year ago
LOL
MrBlenderMan 1 year ago
@hermanogflores This is your own imaginative assumptions and not anything I ever heard a Calvinist teach. I do not presume to speak for your faith-do not presume to to speak for mine.
daveme7 1 year ago
15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheeps clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. 16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? 17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
daveme7 1 year ago
Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
WHOSOEVER WILL..eliminates Calvin and hit nutty bucket of false doctrine. Based on CALVIN, the elect will come...they have NO choice!
John 3:15-16 says pretty much the same thing. Whosoever will maybe saved. the ELECT has nothing to do with it.
gradyhenley 1 year ago
Paul said, I endure all things for the elect sake.He suffered not subjectively but with purpose.I go evangelize everyday ( sorry three to four times a week at the university) I would not go unless I knew God has an elect people
polopowers1 1 year ago
you go for the wrong reason! you go because God said go...not because of the elect sake. You are so hung up on a lie that you probably believe Obama is a good president as well!!
gradyhenley 1 year ago
Yea the self rigeous motive is better.Judging people politically you don't know.The difference between me and you is you nassume alot about peolpe I assume believe God will do whart He has said.You lost all credibility by the Obama comment
polopowers1 1 year ago
and according to calvinism, God is only gave to save the elect; so there is NO need to preach it to the elect. they will get saved one way or the other; as God elected and God can not lie; all the elect have to do is think about God and God must save them, as God can not like and Calvinism teaches that only the elect can be saved. Calvinis is a stupid teaching believe by silly fools ladened with sin.
gradyhenley 1 year ago
@gradyhenley Opinions are not facts. Perceptions is not truth. Assumptions and false accusations does not make your views valid but rather invalidates. When I evangelize-I do because Christ commanded as did Paul. I go because the Spirit of God constrains me to Go. Love for others and the lost formed in us as we are conformed to the image of Christ and love those whom God loves
daveme7 1 year ago
@gradyhenley Preaching to the elect-I see this over and over again-this violates what is plainly taught in the scriptures as the foolishness of preaching is the God ordained way for people to get saved. I always find it interesting so many assumptions are made about Calvinists that we have to believe this or act on that based on assumptions.
daveme7 1 year ago
@gradyhenley In other words-your judgements are based on your thinking-your logic-not what people actually say or believe. As often, I see the same assumptions and challange for resources-never see any given. The point being-can you show me a Calvinist author or preacher who teaches any of the things you say we teach? I highly doubt you will give a resource.
daveme7 1 year ago
Calvinism is a stupid doctrine. Did you note the double standard in what these deluded nuts proclaimed?
2 Pet 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
gradyhenley 1 year ago
@gradyhenley "Calvinism is a stupid doctrine"...wow your point is proven in this statement. great job,
kushisaac 1 year ago
Whoever belives in free will should be out there seven days a week .Let a doctrine be wrong show me the fruit of your convictions.If its all about choice you must hand out alot of tracts
polopowers1 1 year ago
@polopowers1 I dont see how that makes any difference to whether calvinsim is true or not for Christ said to make disciples of all nations regardless.
So, you calvinisnt ought to be doing the same thing as the means to save the elect is through preaching the gospel. Do you not want all the elect to be saved of can you sit back and relax knowing God will save them anyway?
prn72271 1 year ago
makes all sense to me.
paulamirelac 1 year ago
I'm sorry, this didn't make sense.
God doesn't tell us who the elect are, so that is why we preach to everyone.
Like God needs you to reach the elect. That answer doesn't hold true to the idea of a sovereign God. Also, under a total sovereign God, people don't reject God, God predestines people to act, and reject him.
Read the Gospels in earnest, I highly doubt any of you Calvinists will actually come to the conclusion of the five points of Calvinism.
Hawkstrat 1 year ago
read the gospel? The gospels were written by men with an Old Testament mentality...they thought Jesus would reestablish the Jewish Kingdome IMMEDIATELY! See Act 1:6.
Anyone that accepts Calvinism as the truth would also believe Obama is a great president as well...
gradyhenley 1 year ago