I am a petrolhead and I am currently studying to become a mechanical engineer, and I quite like hybrids and all electrics. I really don't understand the people who would like to stick to the old tradition of using fossil fuels and being dependent on other parties for a stable supply of energy.
I am not going to lie, I am a bit skeptic on the "solutions" that are being presented right now by the big car manufacturers. But with enough R&D anything can be achieved. :D
You are ill informed, no, seriously, you've read one poxy article in one cheap magazine which has told you a pack of bull about diesel technology and the journalist is funded indirectly by the oil companies and it's in all their interest to keep pushing rubbish steam age technology like internal combustion engines. They are dead, they are over, they belong in a museum, the TDi or what ever it is you are referring to is an old fashioned, outdated inefficient piece of tat.
Bump the comments, I saw Jeremy's review of the Prius and he makes some good points. I would not be so kind to Toyota when a Mini will do as well as the Prius. I think your Scrapheap people could do better than the Prius with a diesel hybrid. Its time to throw out the green thinking and be practical.
For a start it's a Prius, and also that is nonsense. No way does a BMW 7 series achieve 60 mpg, and what ever it gets, the emissions from a Prius are a fraction of those from a large diesel engine. This from the BMW site. 'CO2 emissions 251g/km', the Prius, 47g/km) I don't think the Prius is the answer by a long way, but saying a beemer gets the same mileage is utter nonsense, spread by the pro oil hegemony of large motor manufacturers.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
The type of car you drive is irrelevant to the amount of CO2, you put out in a year.
I can drive a Rolls-Royce Phantom and use less CO2, than your Prius, if do a lot less miles than you. My overall CO2 is 1.7tons a year UNDER the UK average (inc the car) I object to being judged by my car, and not by my overall emissions. I'm seen by people (who pollute more than me) as evil. They can't get past the car. I like your idea, we use a lot we don't need. On a lighter note please have a shave! :)
One of my work colleagues is only 5mpg short of that in a diesel Ford Focus doing his regular commute, and it was the estate version, which is at an aerodynamic disadvantage. So yes, one in the eye for Mr Clarkson on his mpg figure, but his point that a good diesel car can match it, without all the extra technology and for less money probably stands.
Yet here you are answering for the car. plus, he normally bashes the people that designed the car and the people that think it is (in his words) "brilliant."
also, he hasn't made up bullshit about the car, he just brought up the REAL issues with the car.
I'm hardly "answering" for the car, Clarkson made up some stuff whuch Robert disproved.
If he doesn't like the car, fine, just don't make up crap like "we took the engine out and made it go further" because someone who HAS the car is going to prove you wrong and make you look like an arse.
I suspect a lot of people don't drive well enough to get the benefits from a hybrid car, aside from myself is there anyone who actually drives at the speed limit!?
People like Clarkson - who have ties to the stodgy UK/US automotive industry - are likely pressurised into downplaying hybrids' merits. Here in Sacramento, CA, USA we've got a journalist/mechanic named Doug Brauner... a local Clarkson, if you will. A trusted source of automotive knowledge, he even had a cameo in "Who Killed the Electric Car?" In his local radio programme, he often tried to dissuade listeners from buying hybrids. Sadly, he was arrested recently on a charge of domestic violence.
Ok i went and did the research and the fuel efficiency of airplanes today is 3.5 litres per person km and are targeted to be 3.0 litres, more fuel efficent than a compact car. So Australia is bad because of the sheer distance, but domestic flights are still good and eco friendly.
Actually domestic flights are more ecofriendly, it's just a political scapegoat. Planes don't waste fuel in traffic jams they cut down on the total distance by flying direct, they carry more people, and they aren't more fuel efficent they are certainly on the same level as cars are.
By choosing to drive a hybrid car you are reducing the amount the amount of petrol used but by travelling by plane you totally outweigh any advantage you may gain. I found this website which seemed quite informative:
'chooseclimate dot org'
It states that the sustainable CO2 emission per person per year is about 0.4 tonnes.
So, by travelling to Autralia by plane, each passenger will have used up almost 2.5 years worth of sustainable carbon emissions!
So true, and I flew to Austalia at Christmas, so my carbon footprint is the size of Tasmania. Ho hum. I'll tell you what though, I spend a lot less on petrol.
I suppose we've got to look at how we can affect a change in our carbon footprint relative to our 'normal' output. People who fly a lot for business and to see family etc. can't really change that as there's no effective alternative. What does get my goat is people taking domestic flights in Britain!
What I'm wondering is what is the difference between the efficiency of the electric motor compared to the engine. Because to be scientific you have to recognize that the electric motor is going to add weight so the journey will require more useful energy, however if the efficiency of the motor is high enough then more of the actual energy put in wil be used, no point in having a higher mpg if the electricity would have taken 10 gallons of oil burning to produce for example.
while I don't like petrol hybrids, they are very well thought out, the re-charge of the batteries is produced under braking and slowdown periods of driving, so no fuel is used in maintaining the electrical drive of the car. Haven't got a clue about the effeciency ratio though.
The supplies of petrol are limited and under increasing strain as China and India industrialize. Unless Clarkie has a secret stash of oil that no one knows about.
clarkeson is an amusing arsehole, as much as i detest a lot about him he makes me laugh-admittedly not always with him and more at him!.Yop gear is a very literal demonstration in why those who own a penis should probably never own more than a tircycle!
Why, Bobby? Why? The Prius is an environmental disaster!!!! Have you seen the pollution that batteries cause when they are made?
If you want good MPG get a Smart!!!! With mine i average 65mpg!!!!! Even when driving around London!!!!
Let me put it this way, i drove from Rotherham to Shaftsburry Avenue, London, natch (on a Saturday) and back to Rotherham on less than £30 of unleaded.
Newsflash: EVERY car has a battery. Avg car a 15kg Lead-acid vs the prius 45kg nimh. Many quote Sudbury's Nickel production, but how many % of that nickel goes to the prius, how much damage does lead production do? Also, the prius's batteries will be recycled. The smart is a 2dr 730kg supermini 3* ncap, while the prius is a 5dr 1360kg midsize 5*; if it was size of the prius would it still be 60mpg? BTW the big battery prob is from electronics (which don't get recycled) not hybrids.
There is a world of difference between a small battery used to start an engine and a huge set of batterys needed for propulsion. Further more, most of the pollution caused by cars is from the production, not use. Use becomes the bigger pollutant after about 130,000 miles or so - the Prius has a designed life of 90,000 miles, this means that it will need replacing more often, leading to higher production pollution. At the minute the Smart is the only car that is 100% recyclable.
tech: The Prius's battery is designed to last at least 180,000 miles, don't know where you got the idea of 90,000 miles expected for the life of the Prius. Such an assertion really deserves citing a source.
techwondo: I think the point is that Robert's Prius is more environmentally friendly than a conventional car and suits what he needs to do with a car (he's got a family after all) It is a far better option than the popular "school-run SUV"! As good as Smart cars are they might not be suitable for his particular needs. And now he's got it the best thing to do is keep it!
Jeremy Clarkson is a right-wing prick who seems to sadly deny anything that does not fit in with his own agenda. Global warming is apprently a myth some right-wing journalists will have you believe.
I admit to being surprised at your results. That's very good mileage indeed for cars of this generation.
Hybrids are just a stepping stone to the future. But consumer interest in them is important - it's proof that consumers are willing to adopt new technologies aimed at fuel conservation. Bring on better cars! :-)
Thats a great vehicle if one has the money to purchase it. I have a vid for those who don't have the money, With under $300 US dollars one may save up to 25% on fuel usage by using a simple hydrogen system, look to get 100% in time & testing.
I'm not entirely up to speed with these Hybrids, but am I right in remembering that the petrol part of the motor kicks in after a certain speed? If so, I imagine you would get even better consumption over the period of say a month worth of commuting in town. Shame Clarkson doesn't have an account, that I'm aware of, so we could see some video responses back and forth between the two of you. ;)
Interesting. I might get one in years to come, but that would require me getting a driving licence first. Still, when I eventually do get one I expect they'll be even better.
My average speed was between 65 and 70 mph, a lot of the journey was on motorway, and there are a lot of hills. I have to climb a very big hill to get back to my house, I had 62.3 registered before I hit the hill. And while I'm here, Prius land speed record using elec only (it had plastic farings and narrow tyres) 142 mph.
You have won without doubt by plastering your shitty comments on my page (which I am removing by the way) and slabbering your incoherent, ill informed nonsense around like the puke of a drunken kiddy fiddler. However, you have proved beyond doubt yet again that 'young' people can be stupid, boring and dull dull dull. You talked about dick this, dick that, obsessed with your little dicky dick, suck dick, suck dick, for fuck sake grow up you pathetic sniveling little cockroach
I am a petrolhead and I am currently studying to become a mechanical engineer, and I quite like hybrids and all electrics. I really don't understand the people who would like to stick to the old tradition of using fossil fuels and being dependent on other parties for a stable supply of energy.
I am not going to lie, I am a bit skeptic on the "solutions" that are being presented right now by the big car manufacturers. But with enough R&D anything can be achieved. :D
rock3tcat 1 year ago
hey bobby hows it goin? still stickin your dick in the prius' tiny tailpipe
vrooomm4 2 years ago
Charming. But yes.
bobbyllew 2 years ago
you all are idiots....the prius sucks at being a car in all cases....and pollutes the environment more than a tdi
vrooomm4 2 years ago
You are ill informed, no, seriously, you've read one poxy article in one cheap magazine which has told you a pack of bull about diesel technology and the journalist is funded indirectly by the oil companies and it's in all their interest to keep pushing rubbish steam age technology like internal combustion engines. They are dead, they are over, they belong in a museum, the TDi or what ever it is you are referring to is an old fashioned, outdated inefficient piece of tat.
bobbyllew 2 years ago
Jeremy Clarkson gets better fuel efficiency from his Prius when he removes the battery and electric motor.
The rest of the world gets better fuel economy from their Prius by removing the Jeremy Clarkson.
heh
roidroid 2 years ago
Funny that Jeremy had to pay congestion charge in a Peel P50 lol!!
TimpBizkit 3 years ago
I think you missed the point of Jeremy's segment.
He was trying to prove that MPG is dependent on how you drive.
Hoonka 3 years ago
Bump the comments, I saw Jeremy's review of the Prius and he makes some good points. I would not be so kind to Toyota when a Mini will do as well as the Prius. I think your Scrapheap people could do better than the Prius with a diesel hybrid. Its time to throw out the green thinking and be practical.
ka0spm 3 years ago
This has had an extraordinary number of comments. I have to do another one which will be even more annoying.
bobbyllew 4 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Hybrid cars are bunk. The new BMW 7 series diesel actually returns the same mpg as a Puris,
brettvonallen 4 years ago
For a start it's a Prius, and also that is nonsense. No way does a BMW 7 series achieve 60 mpg, and what ever it gets, the emissions from a Prius are a fraction of those from a large diesel engine. This from the BMW site. 'CO2 emissions 251g/km', the Prius, 47g/km) I don't think the Prius is the answer by a long way, but saying a beemer gets the same mileage is utter nonsense, spread by the pro oil hegemony of large motor manufacturers.
bobbyllew 4 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
The type of car you drive is irrelevant to the amount of CO2, you put out in a year.
I can drive a Rolls-Royce Phantom and use less CO2, than your Prius, if do a lot less miles than you. My overall CO2 is 1.7tons a year UNDER the UK average (inc the car) I object to being judged by my car, and not by my overall emissions. I'm seen by people (who pollute more than me) as evil. They can't get past the car. I like your idea, we use a lot we don't need. On a lighter note please have a shave! :)
brettvonallen 4 years ago
Youre a dick.
todan2008 4 years ago
A dick with a Rolls-Royce! Thus I win.
brettvonallen 4 years ago
"For a start it's a Prius" oh who cares he spelt it wrong!!
sexygirlsamantha 4 years ago
Oh okay, I was just being pedantic. Sorreeeeeee. OOps, Sorry
bobbyllew 4 years ago
the only time a 7 series gets 60mpg is if you drop it from 60 miles up.
MRMIdAS2k 4 years ago 2
So only the comments that fit your lying get posted huh? You really are a complete loser
ayadav77 4 years ago
what?
roidroid 2 years ago
One of my work colleagues is only 5mpg short of that in a diesel Ford Focus doing his regular commute, and it was the estate version, which is at an aerodynamic disadvantage. So yes, one in the eye for Mr Clarkson on his mpg figure, but his point that a good diesel car can match it, without all the extra technology and for less money probably stands.
dereknipp1e 4 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
piece of shit!
Agip27 4 years ago
charming
bobbyllew 4 years ago
don't think Clarkson is paid by the automotive industry to play off hybrids. He loves cars, so he expects one thing from cars.... excitement!
Plus he is an entertainer.
Riggro 4 years ago
that doesn't excuse him making up bullshit to add weight to his personal vendetta against a hunk of metal that cannot answer back.
MRMIdAS2k 4 years ago 2
Yet here you are answering for the car. plus, he normally bashes the people that designed the car and the people that think it is (in his words) "brilliant."
also, he hasn't made up bullshit about the car, he just brought up the REAL issues with the car.
Riggro 4 years ago
I'm hardly "answering" for the car, Clarkson made up some stuff whuch Robert disproved.
If he doesn't like the car, fine, just don't make up crap like "we took the engine out and made it go further" because someone who HAS the car is going to prove you wrong and make you look like an arse.
MRMIdAS2k 4 years ago 2
when did he say that? I've been trying to find that video for a while.
Riggro 4 years ago
me too, it was on a top gear a while ago.
if you're in the UK it's been on Dave recently.
MRMIdAS2k 4 years ago
I totally agree, and the Prius is a dull car to drive
bobbyllew 4 years ago
I hate hybrids.... but I like this guy, he's cool
hybrids have inferior driving qualities than other cars. Specially the crappy acceleration and completely wacked balance. what is it? like 70-30 ?
wonder how badly it understeers.
Riggro 4 years ago
Well, the lowest lowball I've heard on Prius mileage is 45mpg:US
Either way thats still quite a step up from our gasoline cars.
The 2008 US Clean Diesels though should be making an inroad on the Prius.
For instance Honda's 2008 Diesel Accord gets about 52mpg:US
But certainly conventional gasoline/petrol aren't going to get even close.
What I'd really like to see are the PHEVs. Particularly the Series-PHEVs.
greyflcn 4 years ago
Either way, a Prius still isn't quite desirable enough.
To please real petrolheads like Jeremy Clarkson, you need to offer them something with some raw power.
Like the Tesla
greyfalcon. net/ tesla
greyfalcon. net/ truck3
greyfalcon. net/ electriccars.png
greyfalcon. net/ electriccars2.png
Me I think that this is perhaps the most desirable car of the bunch.
greyfalcon. net/ phoenixsuv.png
About $29,000 after you take out the $6000 federal clean air rebate.
greyflcn 4 years ago
HAHA love it man! :P
bjhorton2005 4 years ago
Hehe! Clarkson is a great funny man, but it is even more funny to see that he's completely wrong about a car.
rdpenny 4 years ago
I suspect a lot of people don't drive well enough to get the benefits from a hybrid car, aside from myself is there anyone who actually drives at the speed limit!?
wizpip 4 years ago
Real petrolheads get their hands dirty, So this rules out 99% of all car show presenters. Great Vid Btw bobby
leftofleft 4 years ago
People like Clarkson - who have ties to the stodgy UK/US automotive industry - are likely pressurised into downplaying hybrids' merits. Here in Sacramento, CA, USA we've got a journalist/mechanic named Doug Brauner... a local Clarkson, if you will. A trusted source of automotive knowledge, he even had a cameo in "Who Killed the Electric Car?" In his local radio programme, he often tried to dissuade listeners from buying hybrids. Sadly, he was arrested recently on a charge of domestic violence.
jerseydevs2000 4 years ago
domestic violence has nothing to do with auto knowledge.
One thing is true tho, the hybrid system is flawed by design. Batteries pollute more to be manufactured and even more to be dispossed of.
Also, carrying more weight, means doing more work, which means less economy.
Want an economic car? make it light, make it powerful and don't stomp it.
Riggro 4 years ago
Ok i went and did the research and the fuel efficiency of airplanes today is 3.5 litres per person km and are targeted to be 3.0 litres, more fuel efficent than a compact car. So Australia is bad because of the sheer distance, but domestic flights are still good and eco friendly.
ResonantFrequency 4 years ago
Actually domestic flights are more ecofriendly, it's just a political scapegoat. Planes don't waste fuel in traffic jams they cut down on the total distance by flying direct, they carry more people, and they aren't more fuel efficent they are certainly on the same level as cars are.
ResonantFrequency 4 years ago
That's it - I am getting a PRIUS!
kiroyale 4 years ago
By choosing to drive a hybrid car you are reducing the amount the amount of petrol used but by travelling by plane you totally outweigh any advantage you may gain. I found this website which seemed quite informative:
'chooseclimate dot org'
It states that the sustainable CO2 emission per person per year is about 0.4 tonnes.
So, by travelling to Autralia by plane, each passenger will have used up almost 2.5 years worth of sustainable carbon emissions!
MrBoyuki 4 years ago
So true, and I flew to Austalia at Christmas, so my carbon footprint is the size of Tasmania. Ho hum. I'll tell you what though, I spend a lot less on petrol.
bobbyllew 4 years ago
I suppose we've got to look at how we can affect a change in our carbon footprint relative to our 'normal' output. People who fly a lot for business and to see family etc. can't really change that as there's no effective alternative. What does get my goat is people taking domestic flights in Britain!
MrBoyuki 4 years ago
should have come to see me!!
DJ TUTOR!!
ellaskins 4 years ago
I like Clarkson, love Top Gear, but I'm prepared to fully admit that he's an idiot.
ScarranHalfBreed 4 years ago
well said ScarranHalfBreed top gear rocks and Clarkson is a very funy man, but a complete tw*t :P
LordFish 4 years ago
any opinion on the upcoming compressed air car?
giroguy22 4 years ago
nyer nyer ne nyer nye - that's tellin them Robert :-D
callmejo 4 years ago
What I'm wondering is what is the difference between the efficiency of the electric motor compared to the engine. Because to be scientific you have to recognize that the electric motor is going to add weight so the journey will require more useful energy, however if the efficiency of the motor is high enough then more of the actual energy put in wil be used, no point in having a higher mpg if the electricity would have taken 10 gallons of oil burning to produce for example.
ResonantFrequency 4 years ago
while I don't like petrol hybrids, they are very well thought out, the re-charge of the batteries is produced under braking and slowdown periods of driving, so no fuel is used in maintaining the electrical drive of the car. Haven't got a clue about the effeciency ratio though.
ruuman 4 years ago
terrific and useful. Keep up the great work!
nicholas9999 4 years ago
That's amazing, proves the point brilliantly and saves so much fuel.
beteigh 4 years ago
The supplies of petrol are limited and under increasing strain as China and India industrialize. Unless Clarkie has a secret stash of oil that no one knows about.
OhSmeg 4 years ago
Scrapheap is great. Thanks :)
OldSchoolz86 4 years ago
Loved it lol very funny bobby & very informative. Keep up the good work :)
polegems 4 years ago
"Nyer-nyer n-nyer nyer..." It's childish and undermines a sound argument, Robert.
I still laughed, mind you.
keelar001 4 years ago
Still, When has Clarkson been that mature?
xeddieizzardx 4 years ago
enjoyed the vid
poopslingingmonkey 4 years ago
clarkeson is an amusing arsehole, as much as i detest a lot about him he makes me laugh-admittedly not always with him and more at him!.Yop gear is a very literal demonstration in why those who own a penis should probably never own more than a tircycle!
aznarder 4 years ago
we all know that jeremy isnt the most enviromentally friendly road user, good for you!
mu301nh 4 years ago
Why, Bobby? Why? The Prius is an environmental disaster!!!! Have you seen the pollution that batteries cause when they are made?
If you want good MPG get a Smart!!!! With mine i average 65mpg!!!!! Even when driving around London!!!!
Let me put it this way, i drove from Rotherham to Shaftsburry Avenue, London, natch (on a Saturday) and back to Rotherham on less than £30 of unleaded.
Do THAT in a prius
techwondo 4 years ago
Newsflash: EVERY car has a battery. Avg car a 15kg Lead-acid vs the prius 45kg nimh. Many quote Sudbury's Nickel production, but how many % of that nickel goes to the prius, how much damage does lead production do? Also, the prius's batteries will be recycled. The smart is a 2dr 730kg supermini 3* ncap, while the prius is a 5dr 1360kg midsize 5*; if it was size of the prius would it still be 60mpg? BTW the big battery prob is from electronics (which don't get recycled) not hybrids.
stopcrazypp 4 years ago
There is a world of difference between a small battery used to start an engine and a huge set of batterys needed for propulsion. Further more, most of the pollution caused by cars is from the production, not use. Use becomes the bigger pollutant after about 130,000 miles or so - the Prius has a designed life of 90,000 miles, this means that it will need replacing more often, leading to higher production pollution. At the minute the Smart is the only car that is 100% recyclable.
techwondo 4 years ago
tech: The Prius's battery is designed to last at least 180,000 miles, don't know where you got the idea of 90,000 miles expected for the life of the Prius. Such an assertion really deserves citing a source.
nicholas9999 4 years ago
techwondo: I think the point is that Robert's Prius is more environmentally friendly than a conventional car and suits what he needs to do with a car (he's got a family after all) It is a far better option than the popular "school-run SUV"! As good as Smart cars are they might not be suitable for his particular needs. And now he's got it the best thing to do is keep it!
lotteryjerk 4 years ago
stop talking about cars bobby i haven't passed my test yet an i really wana car :) i caint even get insured for a car like yours yet :(
am1gv 4 years ago
Excellent video, I especially loved the mature indepth analysis at the end , brilliant thats realkly tickled me
cw3030 4 years ago
Jeremy Clarkson is a right-wing prick who seems to sadly deny anything that does not fit in with his own agenda. Global warming is apprently a myth some right-wing journalists will have you believe.
stefanboro 4 years ago
Lol, everyone has a Prius now. Personally, I can't see the appeal in it's design. Celebrities can always go for the more classy Lexus hybrid.
94070 4 years ago
I like the shape of the Toyota Prius, wish I had one. Hope you had a good drive, Top gear is a good show but not as good as Scrapheap of course!
marybillmurray1985 4 years ago
I admit to being surprised at your results. That's very good mileage indeed for cars of this generation.
Hybrids are just a stepping stone to the future. But consumer interest in them is important - it's proof that consumers are willing to adopt new technologies aimed at fuel conservation. Bring on better cars! :-)
Urgelt 4 years ago
Thats a great vehicle if one has the money to purchase it. I have a vid for those who don't have the money, With under $300 US dollars one may save up to 25% on fuel usage by using a simple hydrogen system, look to get 100% in time & testing.
sm0ky40 4 years ago
I'm not entirely up to speed with these Hybrids, but am I right in remembering that the petrol part of the motor kicks in after a certain speed? If so, I imagine you would get even better consumption over the period of say a month worth of commuting in town. Shame Clarkson doesn't have an account, that I'm aware of, so we could see some video responses back and forth between the two of you. ;)
kassidynet 4 years ago
haha good point, I'd love to see that. That would be much more interesting than any youtube celebs having an argument.
mooxim 4 years ago
I love the Toyota Prius. My dad has doubts..for some strange reason - like Clarkson
xeddieizzardx 4 years ago
Interesting. I might get one in years to come, but that would require me getting a driving licence first. Still, when I eventually do get one I expect they'll be even better.
hgtfsdrfdfd 4 years ago
I think hybrid cars are a great invention, but I expect hydrogen cars will be even better in future.
Zephany7 4 years ago
Zephany - I agree, totally.
xeddieizzardx 4 years ago
Heh, excellent, but what was your average speed as a matter of interest?
bomb69 4 years ago
My average speed was between 65 and 70 mph, a lot of the journey was on motorway, and there are a lot of hills. I have to climb a very big hill to get back to my house, I had 62.3 registered before I hit the hill. And while I'm here, Prius land speed record using elec only (it had plastic farings and narrow tyres) 142 mph.
bobbyllew 4 years ago
Very nice, though I'm sure Clarkson wouldnt get that if he tried with his big heavy foot.
bomb69 4 years ago
Comment removed
vrooomm4 2 years ago
Comment removed
vrooomm4 2 years ago
You have won without doubt by plastering your shitty comments on my page (which I am removing by the way) and slabbering your incoherent, ill informed nonsense around like the puke of a drunken kiddy fiddler. However, you have proved beyond doubt yet again that 'young' people can be stupid, boring and dull dull dull. You talked about dick this, dick that, obsessed with your little dicky dick, suck dick, suck dick, for fuck sake grow up you pathetic sniveling little cockroach
bobbyllew 2 years ago 2
i already removed them. good day sir
vrooomm4 2 years ago