There you go again, small places and tiny areas, yet the Book of Mormon boast Empires! Huge Cities over a thousand years. Writing, Machinery, smelting of Metals like steel. People being killed by the Hundreds of thousands. A land full of horses...As far as tiny areas we have been able to find tiny Viking Settlments with coins, utinsels and othe viking artifacts in Newfoundland. The Viking Sagas didn't even mention where they were, yet they were found. The Book of Mormon can't even do that.
President John Taylor ( your prophet) called the Mayan and Aztec god Quetzalcoatl = Jesus. Do you know that Quetzalcoatl means Featherd Snake. More like a DRAGON thats using Mormon "scientific method". Quezalcoatl is associated with the planet Venus as the "Morning Star" do you know what the Morning Star is called in Latin thats right not Jesus but "Lucifer" . (2 Peter 1:19). Again using Mormon methods they have either been worshiping Jesus or more likely...............( look it up)
The Mayans didn't have a 7 day week (no Sabbath) , they didn't even have a week they had a months of 13 and 20 days . Also the Book of Mormon describes weapons of steel, swords that rust, elephants, a land full of horses, chariots. These weapons in this film are Aztec from the 14th cenury. This film might as well have the Spanish in the background. clearly this film is trying to put everything into a psuedo historical context. Nazis also had psuedo archeologist do the same.
@conozco4721 Think about it, if a civilization split and fought each other to near annihilation, what animal would be most useful in war and likely to be killed in action or eaten in the accompanying famine? Horses. How much livestock do you see in places that suffered through protracted civil war? None. Were horses every were on the continent? No, the Book of Mormon could have taken place in as small an area as did the events of the Bible - a frankly minute place.
@conozco4721 True, the film has many guesses, most probably wrong. It's just a film. We are not told exactly where the Book of Mormon took place. The filmmakers thought Central America, I think the Mississippian area makes more sense. The Smithsonian & others have been suppressing archaeological evidence that refutes their views for @ 150 yrs. The public doesn't know what's been found - Roman coins & weapons, giant redheaded mummies, Hebrew writings on stone, & on & on.
Its amazing to see how far Satan is willing to go to prove the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is false
He gets individuals to preach that our gospel is wrong, yet they know nothing of what they preach. They are just afraid, afraid of the truth. I don not see a LDS members invading other religion's beliefs and claiming that they are wrong. Yet an individual can plainly see that the LDS church is attacked everyday.
I pray to the Lord to forgive them for they do not know what they do
You said God is Jesus... So then you believe in the Trinity? One God three Persons? And that you can be saved by NO other name than Jesus? That is the only way to salvation! And you believe that you WON'T become gods? You can try and twist it anyway you want but twisting is not TRUTH. You do preach another gospel and another Jesus!! False prophets will NOT take part in God's Kingdom! Please realize you have been tricked and lied to!
@ Varelaarcadio4 -- you are very right to say satan has no power in me! That's because the Holy Spirit lives in me!! Satan does have power influencing the Mormons though! He tricked and lied to them by showing himself to Joseph Smith as an angel of light(after all lucifer was an angel of light-- Lucifer means light bearer) and brought with him a fake gospel preaching another Jesus. Gods fWord says to beware false prophets and those who
@LDS4Life71 Thanks. The site you sight as "evidence" highlights the conflicting arguments for where B of M events supposedly took place. LDS are split on the subject and the official location continues unnamed & open for speculation . Mesoamerica or heart Land ? A pointless question.
bmaf.org WHY THE GREAT LAKES/HEARTLAND MODEL DOES NOT QUALIFY.
you guys are something else ,how much you get paid from the enemy to attack mormons you are nothing but an enemy ,even to yourself.you don't make any sense ,
Book of Mormon, and the professor found the same patter.. I know the book is true, if anyone else needs more proof do a little research. this discovery was made well after Joseph Smith translated the Book of Mormon. and honestly Joseph Smith grew up on a farm, do you really think he was smart enough to start a new religion on his own. I know he was a true prophet but come on, poor all his life, persecuted, and tormented all his life, why keep on going with a lie that ultimately killed him??
I have read the book of mormon and know that it is true. Also we are christians, we are mormons by nickname but my religion is the church of Jesus Christ of later day saints. If there are any members who can help me prove a point i would appreciate it. A few years ago my seminary teacher told me that for the first time in history a professor found a pattern in the bible, one that had to do a little with math but mostly with repetition. some LDS members brought him copied pages from the...
Read the Book of Mormon and ask God in the name Jesus Christ if is true or not. And if you do this, God will manifest the truth of it unto you by the power of the the Holy Ghost. And by the power of the Holy Ghost you may know the truth of all things.
If you have told one lie, that makes you a liar. If you have stolen one thing, that makes you a thief. JESUS said; if you look at a person with lust, you commit adultery in your heart! Ever used GOD's name in vain; then your a blasphemer and can't enter GOD's kingdom! Revelation 21v8 says; "All liars will have their part in the lake of fire!" The bible says; No thief or adulterer will inherit GOD's kingdom! You broke GOD's laws; but JESUS paid your fine! Repent, and trust the Savior!
@TheTine123 Also . Muslems and christians numbers in the billions. Mormons tout 14million ( 50% inactivity ) makes approx 7 million, at best, believing Joseph Smith. Not a worthy comparison.
@kramd1 and I gladly give it to them , and you will too, if you ask god, if it is the true church of jesus christ, and of course if you get an answer from him, will you try some day?
@TheTine123 who Said the DSS were scripture. I don't think you are very bright. Try thinking for yourself it involves observation. Please observe the DSS predate BCE. Predate the events recorded in the New Testament and the Gospels were written after Christ. It appears that the sermon on the mount in the new testament is infact a copied differing version found in the DSS. Point is the BofM copies the later copied NT version. word for word. BofM plagiarism's exposed.
There was alot of dope smoking in those days of joseph smith....smith ate magic mushrooms and was sprinkled with angel dust(PCP's) why would anyone believe such a bullshit story is beyond me!! smith was no prophet or see'r the only thing he had was a hard on for under aged girls...and money...he was the 1st bernie madhoff.
The Book of Mormon is a Satanic Trap. It looks a little Biblical, because Joseph Smith plagiarized so much out of the Bible into it. 25 chapters many other verses, and man of the events recorded in the Bible. Then if you start to think it might be the word of God Mormon 8:17 & 2 Nephi 33:5 try to make you think you are a servant of the devil if you start to disbelieve some of the other nonsense that is in it.
@carterfamily8903 My dear friend, Satan would have messed up big time if he'd really brought this book into being, since from it over 14 million men and women worldwide have come unto Christ with testimonies of His divine mission for all mankind. Thank the Lord for all words that with such power can convince us of the reality and power of the Son of God!
If Joseph was forging the Book of Mormon, why include Biblical passages at all?Clearly, Joseph was able to rapidly produce a vast and complex text that made no reference to Biblical citations at all. If Joseph was trying to perpetrate a fraud, why did he include near-verbatim quotations from the one book (the Holy Bible KJV) with which his target audience was sure to be familiar?
@Sephuskal When one perpetrates a fraud, you need to place elements of truth in to convince people. In all native cultures the leader of natives societies were not call chiefs., that is a European misconception. If this Moroni really existed, he would have known that. Its obvious Mormons are restructuring their mythology to suit what we now know about early people of "Great Turtle Island"
@Sephuskal Because the best Satanic lie, is mixed with some truth; Look at Satan in the garden of Eden, or when he tempted Jesus 40 days in the wilderness; Matthew chapter 4. Satan always quoted scripture, but then he would twist it just a little to say what he wanted to say, then add to it some, and then to deceive the way he wanted to deceive! Remember: Satan is a better theologian than any of us and is a devil still!
Joseph Smith could neither write nor dictate a coherent and wellworded letter; let alone dictating a book like the Book of Mormon. And, though I was an active participant in the scenes that transpired, . . . it is marvelous to me, “a marvel and a wonder,” as much so as to any one else.[10]
And, if Joseph was merely inventing the Book of Mormon story, he picked some of the more obscure and difficult Bible passages to include.
When he stopped for any purpose at any time he would, when he commenced again, begin where he left off without any hesitation, and one time while he was translating he stopped suddenly, pale as a sheet, and said, "Emma, did Jerusalem have walls around it?" When I answered, "Yes," he replied, "Oh! I was afraid I had been deceived." He had such a limited knowledge of history at the time that he did not even know that Jerusalem was surrounded by walls
Emma talks about Joseph Translating the book of Mormon.
When my husband was translating the Book of Mormon, I wrote a part of it, as he dictated each sentence, word for word, and when he came to proper names he could not pronounce, or long words, he spelled them out, and while I was writing them, if I made a mistake in spelling, he would stop me and correct my spelling, although it was impossible for him to see how I was writing them down at the time. .?. .
fact is the KJV ( new testament ) was translated from Greek to english not hebrew.
Joseph Smith was correct to recognise the bible translation to be incorrect. But then copies the KJV version of Jesus Christ's words for the 3 Nephi 12 account. ?
@kramd1 The bible we have today was translated from Hebrew to greek to Latin to Old German back to Latin then to English all with out the power of seership or revelation or Priesthood authority.
Interestingly what I did find, was that Scholars who translated the DSS where Isaiah is written, did exactly what you accuse Joseph Smith of doing, they realized it was a copy of Isaiah and just inserted the text we have today with out even going through it.
@kramd1 One of the reasons I have a problem with the Qumran community is that it appears to be a branch off of a Branch off through the Essenes. They did not Marry or have Children, and their community seems to come to an end as Paul and the apostles are seeing the Apostasy of the early Church of Jesus Christ start to rise. The History I have read shows a turning from Gods church not an embracing of it.
If the new testament account of Jesus is incorrect so then is the Book of Mormon . For they both miss quote the Beatitudes found in the Dead sea scrolls. Dead sea scrolls proving that Jesus was not the author or the origin of the beatitudes . The Book of Mormon copies the KJV of the supposed altered sermon on the mount. Both are fake.
@Sephuskal Examlpe ; 3 Nephi 12 ; 8 "And blessed are the pure in heart for they shall see god" Mathew 5:1-12 "Blessed are the pure in heart , for they will see God." 4Q525 (box15.3) " Blessed is the one who speaks truth ,, with a pure heart and does not slander with his tongue."
There's more. point is, the NT & the B of M differ from the records found in the dead sea scrolls.
The second point is Jesus is not mentioned as the author of beatitudes in the DSS.
@kramd1 Well, in trying to see what you are seeing, I have come to the conclusion that the DSS 4Q525 is not necessarily the same beatitudes found in Mathew. (The sermon on the mount, or Luke the sermon on the Plain.) & Matt may be an original and Lukes an abbreviation, but it appears that they are separate teachings on the same type of subject. This is exactly what I would expect in 3rd Nephi since heist went to the Nephites as he did his apostles in old Jerusalem. Same messages. No plagerizing
@kramd1If critics are making an accusation of plagiarism then they are by the same logic indicting their own Bible. Close examination of the Old Testament reveals many passages which are copied nearly word for word including grammatical errors. Micah, who lived hundreds of years after Isaiah, prophesied word for word in Micah 4:1-3 what Isaiah prophesied in Isaiah 2:2-4 without once giving him credit.
@kramd119] We also find the genealogy from Genesis 5:10-11,36 repeated in 1 Chronicles, much of the history in Samuel and Kings is repeated in Chronicles, and Isaiah 36:2 through Isaiah 38:5 is the same as 2 Kings 18:17 through 2 Kings 20:6.Although Old Testament scripture was often quoted by Old and New Testament writers without giving credit, the Book of Mormon most often makes it clear from whom passages were quoted.
@kramd1There was obviously no intent to plagiarize in either case, but those find fault with the Book of Mormon must condemn the Bible on the same grounds.The use of King James language for passages shared by the Bible and the Book of Mormon allows the Book of Mormon to highlight those areas in which the Book of Mormon's original texts were genuinely different from the textual tradition of the Old World which gave us the Holy Bible.
The argument for the lack of evidence that many mormons use is " you can't prove the bible true from archeological evidence" this therefore makes the lack of evidence of book of mormon archeology on par or in some way correct. I don't follow the reasoning, However the dead sea scrolls provide evidence of Essences having a religious observance similar to that of christianity and a coming messiah , quoting words that Jesus spoke on the sermon of the mount differing from the new Testament .
More fanciful stories of american indians: Zelph a "white lamanite" had his cursed removed ( white ) was found buried at Hill Camorah and identified by Joseph Smith as having been killed in the last great battle at Camohrah ( same place of the golden plates )
Q Why don't mormons excavate on the hill of camorah where the battles that took place. Might just find all the steel swords, breast plates and horses bones too. ? : / Na , just Zelph and his story.
@kramd1 Meh. I believe the Cumorah Battle was in Upstate New York. Mic Mac writing emulates egyptian, and the anthon transcript. Adena People of the Ohio Valley were different than regular natives.Readers Digest, 1978, page 35
There are Large fortified forts all over upstate USA.(Alma 48:8)(Alma 50:2-3)
Land of Promise was in MO.(2 Nephi 1:3-5)
There were ppl in USA before Nephi (2 Nephi 10:20-22)
I believe Laman & lemual people intermarried with them.
@kramd1only 3 miles from hill Cumorah in New York was a sandy mound uncovered to contain thousands of bodies of men, women and children, all heaped up in a disorderly fashion as if placed quickly by an enemy. Many of the bodies had their skulls crushed, broken limbs, and many were burned. When the early farmlands in western New York were plowed - skeletons were found to litter the mounds everywhere. Early farmers found skeletons and arrow heads. Brass copper armor in Ohio was found.
The Church emphasizes the doctrinal and historical value of the Book of Mormon, not its geography. While some Latter-day Saints have looked for possible locations and explanations because the New York Hill Cumorah does not readily fit the Book of Mormon description of Cumorah, there are no conclusive connections between the Book of Mormon text and any specific site
@Sephuskal Faith is .. The hope in things not seen. Evidence is not necessary > Is the club or membership worth joining ?This Is a more pertinent question for mormon conversion as the evidence is not supportive of the claim. Even your prophet/s will tell you that.
@kr You're 100% correct here, Jesus Christ never once demanded proof to believe on him. You will not see proof of the flood, the burning bush or that Moses parted the red sea, nor water sprang out of solid rock, nor people died touching the ark, nor Jesus even writing any of the 4 gospels of his ministry himself. Nor see proof that he was raised 2 days after the grave, nor appeared to Nephites let a lone the apostles plus Joseph Smith Jr.
The only proof one can receive is the Holy Ghost witness
@ Kramd1 .'this country has been inhabited by a white people who were familiar with the arts of which the Indian knew nothing and that after a series of battles with the Indians, they were exterminated.'He also declared that the old burial places were the graves of an unknown people; that the old forts had not been built by the Indians, but 'belonged to a long ago people, who were of white complexion, and skilled in the arts." (Ibid, pg. 83, quoting J.P. MacLean, The Mound Builders, pg. 144)
@kramd1"In Scipio, (about 45 miles away from Cumorah) on Salmon Creek, Mr. Halsted has, from time to time during ten years past, ploughed up, from a certain extant of land of his farm, seven or eight hundred pounds of brass, which appeared to have once been formed into various implements, both of husbandry and war; helmets and working utensils mingled together.
@kramd1The finder of this brass, we are informed as he discovered it carried it to Auburn, and sold it by the pound, where it was worked up, with as little curiosity attendingas thought it had been an ordinary article of the country's produce. . . " (B.H. Roberts, New Witness for God, pg. 259-262)
STEEL SWORDS, COPPER BREAST PLATES AND MEDALS FOUND IN NEW YORK
"A vast many instances of articles made of copper and sometimes plated with silver, have been met with on opening their works.
@kramd1Circular pieces of copper, intended either as medals or breastplates, have been found,several inches in diameter, very much injured by times. In several tumuli the remains of knives and even of swords, in the form of rust, have been discovered . . But besides, there have been found very well manufactured swords and knives of iron, and possibly steel, says Mr. Atwater; from which we are to conclude the primitive people of America,
@kramd1either discovered the use of iron themselves, as the Greeks did, . . or that they carried a knowledge of this ore with them of their dispersion." (B.H. Roberts, New Witness for God, pg. 531, quoting Josiah Priest, American Antiquities, pg. 256)
"Children of different ages and the full grown seem to been piled together promiscuously. One of the skulls was found pierced by an arrow, which was still sticking in it, driven about halfway through before its force was spent.
@kramd1The arrow point was about six inches long.The subjects of this mound were doubtless killed in battle and hastily buried. Some of the mounds are full of bones that are perforated, as though the living subjects were slain in battle, and that the skeletons were heaped together in promiscuous confusion, as if buried after a conflict." (McGavin & Bean, Geography of the Book of Mormon, pg. 74)
Curlomes could be mammoths and Cumoms could be bison.Herds of cattle were found roaming USA in 1600
@kramd1 "The Tarish Priesthood of the Nephite Church of Christ was established by the Three Nephites and not by Joseph Smith Jr."
What ever that means... :/
Why does Principal vs among matter? Theyre both basically the same any way. You have Aztec & Mayan sharing culture, & Mayan & peruvian sharing culture. You have Zuni & Anassazi sharing culture, and Zuni & Hopi sharing culture. You have Hopi & Hopewell sharing culture, & Ute /Shoshone speaking Uto Aztecca. Principal vs among, who cares?
New revelation : Book of Mormon change: Instead of being the "principal ancestors" of American Indians, Lamanites are now......“among the ancestors of the American Indians.”
Why the change then ? ( Oh really Hmm Sephuskal )
Up until recent DNA findings The church has been preaching American Indians & Polynesians are lamanite descendants ...150 + years since 1827 revelation.
@kramd1 "Where is Zarahemla ?" Archaeologically it's most evident in Panama / Columbia Territory. But any non LDS Archaeologist that confirms anything in regards to Book of Mormon Proofs is in Jeopardy of having their credentials questioned even removed. It's sad that truth must be subverted.
DNA proves the book of Mormon True. Thanks to critics we discovered Hap X. Prior to that DNA confirmed Manasseh, which Poly's / orientals have always been, in patriarchal blessings for a century or more.
@kramd1 "Book of Mormon Change: Lamanites are no longer the principal ancestors of the American Indians."
Some are. Who knows what mixes have occurred from 400 AD to 2011. If we had more Book of mormon type records we could find our selves closer to "which tribe is from where."
@Sephuskal SOME is not "the principal" The mormon church has been preaching to the american indians and polynesians for 150 years that they were the descendants of the book of mormon Lamanites. Time and science has proven this not to be true.
@kramd1 Oh really? Hrmm, I thought the LDS church has always maintained that the ending chapters of the Book of Mormon that Moroni finished were within the first few decades of 400 AD. I have never read anything where we have continued scripture up to 1827 in the LDS Church.
@Sephuskal Why the change from "Principal" to "among" ? ( preface to the book of mormon )
LDS have changed their view. For years American Indians have been told by mormon missionaries that their ancestors are the lamanites of the book of mormon, NoW suddenly they are not .
As I walked to my car after the meeting, I was surprised to see the mayor waiting to greet me, flanked by his staff. He stepped forward, extended his hand to me, and said, “I thank you for coming to our city and to our country. We are grateful for what you do to build up your people. With such people and such families, we could create the harmony and the prosperity we want for our people.”
To discover what God would have me add to this conference, I read the messages of His servants in scripture and in past conferences. I received an answer to my prayer as I read the words of Alma, a great servant of the Lord in the Book of Mormon:
Your needs are great and varied. Each of you is a unique child of God. God knows you individually. He sends messages of encouragement, correction, and direction fitted to you and to your needs.
Last October in general conference I called for more missionaries. Every worthy, able young man should prepare to serve a mission. Such service is a priesthood duty—an obligation the Lord expects of us who have been given so very much.
“The Living Christ: The Testimony of the Apostles” is a declaration issued in the year 2000—a year marking the commemoration of the birth of the Savior two millennia earlier. This declaration, one that has been widely quoted and published ever since, represents the collective testimony of 15 men who have been called as special witnesses of Jesus Christ.
The campaign, launched last year in nine U.S. cities, generated a lot of national buzz. Its short videos featured regular folks talking about their lives as doctors, skateboarders, tax attorneys, environmentalists, surfers or former felons before announcing that they are Mormons. Nary an Osmond to be seen.
Based solely on a "burning in the bosom" bereft of evidence with any and all rational logical investigation labelled as "anti Christ" or "anti mormon" implies that Mormonic psychosis is deserving of some sympathetic understanding.
@kram Based solely on a "burning in the bosom" bereft of evidence w/ any and all rational logical investigation labelled as "anti Christ" or "anti mormon" implies that Mormonic psychosis is deserving of some sympathetic understanding.
Its Highly irregular to excentuate the notion that your ability to utilize an automated response regarding the very thing no living entity outside the realms of deity's bestowed upon his creation in regards to the furthering of light + knowledge is w/out merit
@Sephuskal I would like to agree or disagree If I knew what you were saying . Not trying to be rude but I really don't get what you mean. Would it be too much to ask if you could say that different way ?
She came to the verses she sought and started to read very slowly with a soft voice: “For the natural man is an enemy to God, and has been from the fall of Adam, and will be, forever and ever, unless he yields to the enticings of the Holy Spirit,
and putteth off the natural man and becometh a saint through the atonement of Christ the Lord, and becometh as a child, submissive, meek, humble, patient, full of love, willing to submit to all things which the Lord seeth fit to inflict upon him, even as a child doth submit to his father.
She stopped crying, and after a brief silence, she took her scriptures into her hands and started to look up some verses. The father watched as those pure and delicate hands turned the pages of the scriptures, page after page.
@LDS4Life71 I am thankful for Brothers Like you in this dispensation LDSLife71. May we continue on to many Chinese food restaurants into the next 1000 yrs, and continue opening fortune cookies together lol.
Confucious say; "He who like to defend gospel of Jesus Christ will confound enemies when listening to Hoy Ghost." Lucky Numbers are 4-6-1830"
He kneeled next to her and said with a soft and tender voice, “I’m sorry. I apologize for what I did.” He repeated, “I’m sorry, I love you, and I don’t want to hurt you.” And then from the mouth of a child came the lesson that the Lord wanted to teach him.
He really wanted to be a good father and do the right thing, so he stood up and went to his daughter’s bedroom. He gently knocked on the door several times, and there was no answer. So he slowly opened the door and found his girl sobbing and crying on her bed
At the start I thought that kid was gonna put the marble in his hat and read some Egyptian shit. This kids gonna be confused when some Natives start getting pissed off when he insists they are Jews. Fuck.
She's visited her parents in Siberia, where they resided until recently and where her dad worked in a Titanium factor (until Boeing transferred him to China). If you're not intrigued by this point, I should mention that she's the first half-Mexican Mormon I've had the pleasure of speaking with.
There are more details of her life that make her interesting and as one friend stated, those facts have made it so that "Elna had to write a memoir." Without giving too much away, let's just say she grew up in Seattle, Madrid and London.
Elna Baker is attractive, engaging and looking for love in New York City. If you're thinking typical, think again: She's also a writer, a hilarious stand-up comic and a solo performer who specializes in storytelling. Oh, and she's a practicing Mormon. That means no sex. So Elna Baker is a 28-year-old virgin living in the big city, and that would mean she is not typical
@omioloThe train was besieged by Indians and local Mormons dressed as Indians. Fighting lasted until Sept. 11, when John D. Lee, representing the Mormons and the adopted son of Mormon leader Brigham Young, rode into the wagon camp under a white flag. Lee said the Indians would allow train member to leave, unarmed and without their possessions, under a Mormon escort.
We all aspire to fill the measure of our creation, and we respond intuitively and powerfully to whomever or whatever entices and challenges us to develop, to unleash, the divine potential within.
@omioloThe attackers not only took the wagons and all the goods, but stripped the bodies of clothing and jewelry, Bob Fanchon said, and the bodies were left on the ground. The surviving children were taken in by Mormon families.
@omiolo A 5 year old survivor who told a reporter two years after the event. " my father was killed by indians; when they washed their faces, they were white men."
@kramd1 They auctioned off the goods and wagons and John D Lee kept most of the cattle. After eventually the remains were buried (not by Mormons they let the corpses rot) Brigham Young came along and desecrated the Cairn and cross that was set as a memorial.
When they laid down their weapons of rebellion, they qualified themselves for the Lord’s healing and peace, and so can we. The Savior assures, “If they harden not their hearts, and stiffen not their necks against me, they shall be converted, and I will heal them.
@omioloFor Mormons, the lack of discernible Hebrew blood in American Indians is no minor collision between faith and science. It burrows into the historical foundations of the Book of Mormon, a 175-year-old transcription that the church regards as literal and without error.
"Over the years, church prophets and missionaries have used the ancestral link between the ancient Hebrews and American Indians and Polynesians as a prime conversion tool in Central and South America and the South Pacific."
"You've got Mormon apologists in their own publications rejecting what prophets have been saying for decades. This becomes very troubling for ordinary members of the church,"
@omiolo"The author labored to give his words and phrases the quaint, old-fashioned sound and structure of our King James's translation of the Scriptures.... Whenever he found his speech growing too modern -- which was about every sentence or two -- he ladled in a few such Scriptural phrases as "exceeding sore," "and it came to pass," etc., and made things satisfactory again. "And it came to pass" was his pet. If he had left that out, his Bible would have been only a pamphlet." Mark Twain
oh yes, Mark Twain the man who fought against the Mormons because they were AGAINST slavery and Twain was for slavery in Missouri. Once AGAIN KRAMD1 chooses the side of EVIL.
@omiolo subject is "READ the book of Mormon" as you suggested. I have & so has Mark Twain.
I agree with his comment re " And it came to pass" being overly used. Noting: the plagiarisms of KJV bible namely the beatitude being copied word for word. Note: the dead sea scrolls have an earlier version of the beatitudes, somewhat different. Not to mention the large slabs of Isaiah also borrowed.
re: Twains prejudices Smith excluded the blacks and refereed to them as cursed niggers. Evil ?
@Sephuskal Steve Benson is a famous ANTImormon who went around the Nation and the world telling everyone what a great family and life he has had since he left the LDS Church. He event went to say how his marriage was stronger. His wife divorced him a few years ago and spilled the beans. Turns out he is abusive, and the family was so dysfunctional the kids were put on drugs and to this day some of his kids and wife won't speak to him. But at least he was a good ANTImormon......
@omiolo I don't know if he's divorced. But judging from both his convo with me, and Samual the Utahnite, I bet they are the same person. Samual the utahnite is abusive.
@Sephuskal "Samual the Utahnite, I bet they are the same person"
thanks for the information. We I tried to chat with him, he kept going around in circles and then sending me down more and more rabbit holes. I felt like I was dealing with a lunatic. But in his videos he didn't come off as a lunatic but just frantic.
@omiolo Return To the Church? Like Mormon, I don't have much hope for those who have known the Holy Ghost & then abandoned it.
I believe we are in "Sifter" mode right now in the Kingdom of God. I believe we are in the beginnings of when the Very elite will be deceived. I believe we are about see severe Hardship in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, & a season of apostasy.
yet I believe the Church will stand & not fall again. What about you Omiolo? Are You more Optimistic than I?
@Sephuskal I think if they hit rock bottom and are forced to re-evaluate their lives and ask themselves where they went wrong, they will return. Similar to many in the early days of the Church. Like Thomas B. Marsh, who nobody recognized when he eventually returned. If they continue close to bottom but don't hit it, I think they don't return. My 2 cents.
@Sephuskal "when the Very elite will be deceived"
when Lyndon left, I remember him just wanting anyone to listen to him. Like a scorned woman. Lyndon was willing to get in bed with ANYONE that would listen. I personally found it pathetic.
@omiolo "Pathetic" is a common adjective I see with those in Opposition to God.
Misery loves company as much as happiness does. I just think that Human nature is habitual spiritually as much as it is in any other sense as well. Once someone burns a Bridge, rebuilding it is such a challenge, & also knowing things wont be the same again, makes it so that only the Strongest & humblest person will return.
there are somethings done and said you can never take back. Youtube has opened my eyes.
@omioloThe wagon train members — women holding their infants, children under the age of eight in one group, older children in another group and the men with individual Mormon escorts — walked along a one-mile stretch away from the wagons. Then a signal was given, and all but the youngest were massacred.
But before their conversion, remember their state: they were living in what the scriptures call “open rebellion against God.” Their rebellious hearts sentenced them to live “in a state contrary to the nature of happiness” because they had “gone contrary to the nature of God.
Seven witnesses testified to having seen and handled the plates .... They described the plates as being eighteen in number, each measuring approximately seven and three-eighths inches wide, by nine inches long. The plates themselves were "occasionally embellished with beautiful pictures," and all appeared to be of "beautiful antique workmanship, bearing a striking resemblance to the ancient oriental languages.Strang clearly identifies the "Plates of Laban" as the source for most of his book.
I'm certainly open to all new evidences and data on this topic, but I have yet to see how the Great Lakes data supports the Book of Mormon text on geographical, cultural, archaeological, and climatological requirements and inferences. . .
@omiolo Book of the Law comprised only part of the Plates of Laban, rather than the whole.
Strang managed to win enough disciples to form a viable organization of his own. Among the more prominent of these were four of the eleven witnesses to The Book of Mormon.
To emphasize what I've already stated many times in this series, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has no official position on the location of Book of Mormon events and no revelation has been given regarding such locations. In the absence of revelation, we are left on our own to examine, analyze and debate the issue.
Strang's letter convinced several eminent Mormons of his claims. Book of Mormon witnesses John and David Whitmer, Martin Harris and Hiram Page, Apostles John E. Page, William E. M'Lellin, and William Smith, Smith's sisters, Nauvoo Stake President William Marks, Bishop George Miller, and Joseph Smith's mother, Lucy Mack Smith
@kramd1 LOl King Strang? the lawyer land developer and scientist? Brigham said: "The Strangites were once with us, in full fellowship with us, and the Lord spewed them out of his church and will purge out many more. He purifies the hearts and feelings and bodies of his saints and makes manifest the hypocrite and the evil doer that they may go to their own place and the saints will be gathered home to Zion. "
What are the strangites doing these days? not missionary work or building temples.
@Sephuskal“testimony” (consisting of a “burning in the bosom” sensation) ...the main test for determining whether the potential convert should become a member of the LDS Church.
@kramd1 “testimony” (consisting of a “burning in the bosom” sensation) ...the main test for determining whether the potential convert should become a member of the LDS Church.
Thats what a follower of Christ is supposed to feel when recieiving revelation. Are you a follower of Christ? or an anti Christ?
There are over 100 splinter Mormon groups have developed on the foundation of the Prophet Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon, all of these movements base their authority on the Book of Mormon and the Prophet Joseph Smith, how can a "testimony" gained through praying about the Book of Mormon be sufficient to prove which church of all of these movements one should join?
Well I belong to the original Church that Kept the keys, & the name & dispersed them to the apostles, the same way Christs Church did after he was resurrected.
I belong to the Church that is growing &building stakes and temples. I belong to the Church that does the biggest Humanitarian effort and preaches the gospel 2x2
I belong to the church that ACTUALLY has priesthood authority, and men that ACTUALLY have seen and talked with Christ.
I belong to the Church where I have witnessed Christ.
@Sephuskal Based solely on a "burning in the bosom" bereft of evidence with a defence of rational logical investigation labelled anti Christ as if the psychosis is deserving of sympathetic understanding.
@kramd1 I take it you are no Christian. Since you didn't want to answer my question directly. Agnostic at least? evolutionist? or just flat our Atheist?
I suppose to support you with Luke 24:32And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, & while he opened to us the scriptures?
A proof positive that Man knows the will of God, & the truth of his word by manifestations in the heart and mind. It's a lot more than just a warm fuzzy I assure U.
There you go again, small places and tiny areas, yet the Book of Mormon boast Empires! Huge Cities over a thousand years. Writing, Machinery, smelting of Metals like steel. People being killed by the Hundreds of thousands. A land full of horses...As far as tiny areas we have been able to find tiny Viking Settlments with coins, utinsels and othe viking artifacts in Newfoundland. The Viking Sagas didn't even mention where they were, yet they were found. The Book of Mormon can't even do that.
conozco4721 5 days ago
How you have fallen from heaven, morning star, son of the dawn!
You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations!
13 You said in your heart, “I will ascend to the heavens;
I will raise my throne above the stars of God;
I will sit enthroned on the mount of assembly, on the utmost heights of Mount Zaphon.[b]
conozco4721 5 days ago
President John Taylor ( your prophet) called the Mayan and Aztec god Quetzalcoatl = Jesus. Do you know that Quetzalcoatl means Featherd Snake. More like a DRAGON thats using Mormon "scientific method". Quezalcoatl is associated with the planet Venus as the "Morning Star" do you know what the Morning Star is called in Latin thats right not Jesus but "Lucifer" . (2 Peter 1:19). Again using Mormon methods they have either been worshiping Jesus or more likely...............( look it up)
conozco4721 5 days ago
The Mayans didn't have a 7 day week (no Sabbath) , they didn't even have a week they had a months of 13 and 20 days . Also the Book of Mormon describes weapons of steel, swords that rust, elephants, a land full of horses, chariots. These weapons in this film are Aztec from the 14th cenury. This film might as well have the Spanish in the background. clearly this film is trying to put everything into a psuedo historical context. Nazis also had psuedo archeologist do the same.
conozco4721 1 week ago
@conozco4721 Think about it, if a civilization split and fought each other to near annihilation, what animal would be most useful in war and likely to be killed in action or eaten in the accompanying famine? Horses. How much livestock do you see in places that suffered through protracted civil war? None. Were horses every were on the continent? No, the Book of Mormon could have taken place in as small an area as did the events of the Bible - a frankly minute place.
londerosa 5 days ago
@conozco4721 True, the film has many guesses, most probably wrong. It's just a film. We are not told exactly where the Book of Mormon took place. The filmmakers thought Central America, I think the Mississippian area makes more sense. The Smithsonian & others have been suppressing archaeological evidence that refutes their views for @ 150 yrs. The public doesn't know what's been found - Roman coins & weapons, giant redheaded mummies, Hebrew writings on stone, & on & on.
londerosa 5 days ago
Chief Captain Moroni ! That just says it all.
lawrace1 1 month ago
you know deep down this is surely true
it saddens me that you cannot be civil and use profanity
jango117 1 month ago
surely deep down you no that this is bull shit ?! i mean surely like ??
FinuteD1 1 month ago
Its amazing to see how far Satan is willing to go to prove the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is false
He gets individuals to preach that our gospel is wrong, yet they know nothing of what they preach. They are just afraid, afraid of the truth. I don not see a LDS members invading other religion's beliefs and claiming that they are wrong. Yet an individual can plainly see that the LDS church is attacked everyday.
I pray to the Lord to forgive them for they do not know what they do
jango117 1 month ago
As always, Just one problem dear Mormons. Where are the archeological remains of your fairytales?
smakamartin 2 months ago
You said God is Jesus... So then you believe in the Trinity? One God three Persons? And that you can be saved by NO other name than Jesus? That is the only way to salvation! And you believe that you WON'T become gods? You can try and twist it anyway you want but twisting is not TRUTH. You do preach another gospel and another Jesus!! False prophets will NOT take part in God's Kingdom! Please realize you have been tricked and lied to!
Hizwilbdun 2 months ago
Shall be accursed. The Book of Mormon!! Mormons believe Jesus is NOT God! That is definitely another gospel and definitely another Jesus!
Hizwilbdun 2 months ago
@ Varelaarcadio4 -- you are very right to say satan has no power in me! That's because the Holy Spirit lives in me!! Satan does have power influencing the Mormons though! He tricked and lied to them by showing himself to Joseph Smith as an angel of light(after all lucifer was an angel of light-- Lucifer means light bearer) and brought with him a fake gospel preaching another Jesus. Gods fWord says to beware false prophets and those who
bring another gospel and preach another Jesus sha
Hizwilbdun 2 months ago
@LDS4Life71 Thanks. The site you sight as "evidence" highlights the conflicting arguments for where B of M events supposedly took place. LDS are split on the subject and the official location continues unnamed & open for speculation . Mesoamerica or heart Land ? A pointless question.
bmaf.org WHY THE GREAT LAKES/HEARTLAND MODEL DOES NOT QUALIFY.
kramd1 2 months ago
test
saamohod 2 months ago
you guys are something else ,how much you get paid from the enemy to attack mormons you are nothing but an enemy ,even to yourself.you don't make any sense ,
i'm sorry for you!
arcvar59 4 months ago
Arcvar59 unfortunately satan will not attack himself so you will not lose all Mormons since satan created Mormons! A house divided cannot stand.
Hizwilbdun 4 months ago
@Hizwilbdun satan has no power in you, only if you permit it to him ,will you go against him ,try to offend him and you will,see the diference .
varelaarcadio4 2 months ago 2
I'm a lamanite ,and I testify to all of you,that I know , this is the restored church of jesuschrist .!
arcvar59 4 months ago
Comment removed
kramd1 4 months ago
@kramd1 how old are you ?you have to grow up in my opinion.
varelaarcadio4 2 months ago
Book of Mormon, and the professor found the same patter.. I know the book is true, if anyone else needs more proof do a little research. this discovery was made well after Joseph Smith translated the Book of Mormon. and honestly Joseph Smith grew up on a farm, do you really think he was smart enough to start a new religion on his own. I know he was a true prophet but come on, poor all his life, persecuted, and tormented all his life, why keep on going with a lie that ultimately killed him??
cassidyorme 5 months ago
I have read the book of mormon and know that it is true. Also we are christians, we are mormons by nickname but my religion is the church of Jesus Christ of later day saints. If there are any members who can help me prove a point i would appreciate it. A few years ago my seminary teacher told me that for the first time in history a professor found a pattern in the bible, one that had to do a little with math but mostly with repetition. some LDS members brought him copied pages from the...
cassidyorme 5 months ago
Read the Book of Mormon and ask God in the name Jesus Christ if is true or not. And if you do this, God will manifest the truth of it unto you by the power of the the Holy Ghost. And by the power of the Holy Ghost you may know the truth of all things.
See ya in Heaven.
Mayanbookkeeper 5 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
If you have told one lie, that makes you a liar. If you have stolen one thing, that makes you a thief. JESUS said; if you look at a person with lust, you commit adultery in your heart! Ever used GOD's name in vain; then your a blasphemer and can't enter GOD's kingdom! Revelation 21v8 says; "All liars will have their part in the lake of fire!" The bible says; No thief or adulterer will inherit GOD's kingdom! You broke GOD's laws; but JESUS paid your fine! Repent, and trust the Savior!
EXALTEDDIRT 5 months ago
I love this video! Captain Moroni was a great example of someone who stood for honesty and freedom. I know the Book of Mormon is the word of God.
criolo1998 7 months ago
@TheTine123 Also . Muslems and christians numbers in the billions. Mormons tout 14million ( 50% inactivity ) makes approx 7 million, at best, believing Joseph Smith. Not a worthy comparison.
kramd1 7 months ago
@kramd1 and if satan keeps ataking us "mormons" probably we will loose them all ...
arcvar59 4 months ago
@arcvar59 LDS Inc needs your tithing.
kramd1 4 months ago
@kramd1 and I gladly give it to them , and you will too, if you ask god, if it is the true church of jesus christ, and of course if you get an answer from him, will you try some day?
varelaarcadio4 2 months ago
@TheTine123 agreed they are not scripture. Unchristian ? I'm not christian. Neither are you, your mormon.
what does it have to do with the B of M you ask. As I said before it shows the BofM to be KJV plagiarism. Fake and fraudulent. Your not listening.
kramd1 7 months ago
@TheTine123 who Said the DSS were scripture. I don't think you are very bright. Try thinking for yourself it involves observation. Please observe the DSS predate BCE. Predate the events recorded in the New Testament and the Gospels were written after Christ. It appears that the sermon on the mount in the new testament is infact a copied differing version found in the DSS. Point is the BofM copies the later copied NT version. word for word. BofM plagiarism's exposed.
kramd1 7 months ago
@LDS4Life71 LOL he says pay your tithing.. Im not a fool
cwood4ever 8 months ago
@cwood4ever Wana bet
cwood4ever 8 months ago
@LDS4Life71 Ive read the BOM 6 times and I still am not sure if its true, Ive prayed fasted etc. What should I do blindly follow?
cwood4ever 8 months ago
There was alot of dope smoking in those days of joseph smith....smith ate magic mushrooms and was sprinkled with angel dust(PCP's) why would anyone believe such a bullshit story is beyond me!! smith was no prophet or see'r the only thing he had was a hard on for under aged girls...and money...he was the 1st bernie madhoff.
JSeely218 10 months ago
@JSeely218 <--- anti-Christ likes to tell lies.
ImLDSRU2 9 months ago
I am waiting for the messenger..
2MyTubes 10 months ago
The Book of Mormon is a Satanic Trap. It looks a little Biblical, because Joseph Smith plagiarized so much out of the Bible into it. 25 chapters many other verses, and man of the events recorded in the Bible. Then if you start to think it might be the word of God Mormon 8:17 & 2 Nephi 33:5 try to make you think you are a servant of the devil if you start to disbelieve some of the other nonsense that is in it.
carterfamily8903 11 months ago
@carterfamily8903 My dear friend, Satan would have messed up big time if he'd really brought this book into being, since from it over 14 million men and women worldwide have come unto Christ with testimonies of His divine mission for all mankind. Thank the Lord for all words that with such power can convince us of the reality and power of the Son of God!
socialwigs 10 months ago
@carterfamily8903 youre gay
cwood4ever 8 months ago
I love this video, seminary rules!!
dratedrsuperstar 11 months ago
I've heard of this type of story before.
KBAFourthtime 11 months ago
he wasn't exactly a prophet.
TrackManiaMon 1 year ago
Run cody!!
broxxx1138 1 year ago
If Joseph was forging the Book of Mormon, why include Biblical passages at all?Clearly, Joseph was able to rapidly produce a vast and complex text that made no reference to Biblical citations at all. If Joseph was trying to perpetrate a fraud, why did he include near-verbatim quotations from the one book (the Holy Bible KJV) with which his target audience was sure to be familiar?
Sephuskal 1 year ago 8
@Sephuskal yak yak yak just shut the fuck up and watch the funny movie!
FUwogs 1 year ago
@FUwogs I saw your mom in a funny Movie.. (well actually it was sad.)
Sephuskal 1 year ago
@Sephuskal When one perpetrates a fraud, you need to place elements of truth in to convince people. In all native cultures the leader of natives societies were not call chiefs., that is a European misconception. If this Moroni really existed, he would have known that. Its obvious Mormons are restructuring their mythology to suit what we now know about early people of "Great Turtle Island"
Eagle027 7 months ago
@Sephuskal Because the best Satanic lie, is mixed with some truth; Look at Satan in the garden of Eden, or when he tempted Jesus 40 days in the wilderness; Matthew chapter 4. Satan always quoted scripture, but then he would twist it just a little to say what he wanted to say, then add to it some, and then to deceive the way he wanted to deceive! Remember: Satan is a better theologian than any of us and is a devil still!
EXALTEDDIRT 5 months ago
Comment removed
FMLevatation 4 weeks ago
@Sephuskal What are you saying be more specific?
FMLevatation 4 weeks ago
Joseph Smith could neither write nor dictate a coherent and wellworded letter; let alone dictating a book like the Book of Mormon. And, though I was an active participant in the scenes that transpired, . . . it is marvelous to me, “a marvel and a wonder,” as much so as to any one else.[10]
And, if Joseph was merely inventing the Book of Mormon story, he picked some of the more obscure and difficult Bible passages to include.
Sephuskal 1 year ago
When he stopped for any purpose at any time he would, when he commenced again, begin where he left off without any hesitation, and one time while he was translating he stopped suddenly, pale as a sheet, and said, "Emma, did Jerusalem have walls around it?" When I answered, "Yes," he replied, "Oh! I was afraid I had been deceived." He had such a limited knowledge of history at the time that he did not even know that Jerusalem was surrounded by walls
Sephuskal 1 year ago
Emma talks about Joseph Translating the book of Mormon.
When my husband was translating the Book of Mormon, I wrote a part of it, as he dictated each sentence, word for word, and when he came to proper names he could not pronounce, or long words, he spelled them out, and while I was writing them, if I made a mistake in spelling, he would stop me and correct my spelling, although it was impossible for him to see how I was writing them down at the time. .?. .
Sephuskal 1 year ago
fact is the KJV ( new testament ) was translated from Greek to english not hebrew.
Joseph Smith was correct to recognise the bible translation to be incorrect. But then copies the KJV version of Jesus Christ's words for the 3 Nephi 12 account. ?
kramd1 1 year ago
@kramd1 The bible we have today was translated from Hebrew to greek to Latin to Old German back to Latin then to English all with out the power of seership or revelation or Priesthood authority.
Interestingly what I did find, was that Scholars who translated the DSS where Isaiah is written, did exactly what you accuse Joseph Smith of doing, they realized it was a copy of Isaiah and just inserted the text we have today with out even going through it.
I've little opinion on the accuracy of DSS
Sephuskal 1 year ago
@kramd1 One of the reasons I have a problem with the Qumran community is that it appears to be a branch off of a Branch off through the Essenes. They did not Marry or have Children, and their community seems to come to an end as Paul and the apostles are seeing the Apostasy of the early Church of Jesus Christ start to rise. The History I have read shows a turning from Gods church not an embracing of it.
Sephuskal 1 year ago
If the new testament account of Jesus is incorrect so then is the Book of Mormon . For they both miss quote the Beatitudes found in the Dead sea scrolls. Dead sea scrolls proving that Jesus was not the author or the origin of the beatitudes . The Book of Mormon copies the KJV of the supposed altered sermon on the mount. Both are fake.
kramd1 1 year ago
@kramd1 where is it copied from the KJV?
Sephuskal 1 year ago
@Sephuskal Examlpe ; 3 Nephi 12 ; 8 "And blessed are the pure in heart for they shall see god" Mathew 5:1-12 "Blessed are the pure in heart , for they will see God." 4Q525 (box15.3) " Blessed is the one who speaks truth ,, with a pure heart and does not slander with his tongue."
There's more. point is, the NT & the B of M differ from the records found in the dead sea scrolls.
The second point is Jesus is not mentioned as the author of beatitudes in the DSS.
The DSS , discovered in 1947.
kramd1 1 year ago
@kramd1 Well, in trying to see what you are seeing, I have come to the conclusion that the DSS 4Q525 is not necessarily the same beatitudes found in Mathew. (The sermon on the mount, or Luke the sermon on the Plain.) & Matt may be an original and Lukes an abbreviation, but it appears that they are separate teachings on the same type of subject. This is exactly what I would expect in 3rd Nephi since heist went to the Nephites as he did his apostles in old Jerusalem. Same messages. No plagerizing
Sephuskal 1 year ago
@kramd1If critics are making an accusation of plagiarism then they are by the same logic indicting their own Bible. Close examination of the Old Testament reveals many passages which are copied nearly word for word including grammatical errors. Micah, who lived hundreds of years after Isaiah, prophesied word for word in Micah 4:1-3 what Isaiah prophesied in Isaiah 2:2-4 without once giving him credit.
Sephuskal 1 year ago
@kramd119] We also find the genealogy from Genesis 5:10-11,36 repeated in 1 Chronicles, much of the history in Samuel and Kings is repeated in Chronicles, and Isaiah 36:2 through Isaiah 38:5 is the same as 2 Kings 18:17 through 2 Kings 20:6.Although Old Testament scripture was often quoted by Old and New Testament writers without giving credit, the Book of Mormon most often makes it clear from whom passages were quoted.
Sephuskal 1 year ago
@kramd1There was obviously no intent to plagiarize in either case, but those find fault with the Book of Mormon must condemn the Bible on the same grounds.The use of King James language for passages shared by the Bible and the Book of Mormon allows the Book of Mormon to highlight those areas in which the Book of Mormon's original texts were genuinely different from the textual tradition of the Old World which gave us the Holy Bible.
Sephuskal 1 year ago
The argument for the lack of evidence that many mormons use is " you can't prove the bible true from archeological evidence" this therefore makes the lack of evidence of book of mormon archeology on par or in some way correct. I don't follow the reasoning, However the dead sea scrolls provide evidence of Essences having a religious observance similar to that of christianity and a coming messiah , quoting words that Jesus spoke on the sermon of the mount differing from the new Testament .
kramd1 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
More fanciful stories of american indians: Zelph a "white lamanite" had his cursed removed ( white ) was found buried at Hill Camorah and identified by Joseph Smith as having been killed in the last great battle at Camohrah ( same place of the golden plates )
Q Why don't mormons excavate on the hill of camorah where the battles that took place. Might just find all the steel swords, breast plates and horses bones too. ? : / Na , just Zelph and his story.
kramd1 1 year ago
@kramd1 Meh. I believe the Cumorah Battle was in Upstate New York. Mic Mac writing emulates egyptian, and the anthon transcript. Adena People of the Ohio Valley were different than regular natives.Readers Digest, 1978, page 35
There are Large fortified forts all over upstate USA.(Alma 48:8)(Alma 50:2-3)
Land of Promise was in MO.(2 Nephi 1:3-5)
There were ppl in USA before Nephi (2 Nephi 10:20-22)
I believe Laman & lemual people intermarried with them.
This is how skin pigment was changed
Sephuskal 1 year ago
@kramd1only 3 miles from hill Cumorah in New York was a sandy mound uncovered to contain thousands of bodies of men, women and children, all heaped up in a disorderly fashion as if placed quickly by an enemy. Many of the bodies had their skulls crushed, broken limbs, and many were burned. When the early farmlands in western New York were plowed - skeletons were found to litter the mounds everywhere. Early farmers found skeletons and arrow heads. Brass copper armor in Ohio was found.
Sephuskal 1 year ago
@SephuskalIn 1993, the First Presidency wrote:
The Church emphasizes the doctrinal and historical value of the Book of Mormon, not its geography. While some Latter-day Saints have looked for possible locations and explanations because the New York Hill Cumorah does not readily fit the Book of Mormon description of Cumorah, there are no conclusive connections between the Book of Mormon text and any specific site
kramd1 1 year ago
@kramd1 when you don't see the evidence you seek in the rocks below, look to the Heavens above Kramd. look to the Heavens above sister.
Sephuskal 1 year ago
@Sephuskal Faith is .. The hope in things not seen. Evidence is not necessary > Is the club or membership worth joining ?This Is a more pertinent question for mormon conversion as the evidence is not supportive of the claim. Even your prophet/s will tell you that.
Faith is a human entitlement. It is not evidence.
kramd1 1 year ago
@kr You're 100% correct here, Jesus Christ never once demanded proof to believe on him. You will not see proof of the flood, the burning bush or that Moses parted the red sea, nor water sprang out of solid rock, nor people died touching the ark, nor Jesus even writing any of the 4 gospels of his ministry himself. Nor see proof that he was raised 2 days after the grave, nor appeared to Nephites let a lone the apostles plus Joseph Smith Jr.
The only proof one can receive is the Holy Ghost witness
Sephuskal 1 year ago
@ Kramd1 .'this country has been inhabited by a white people who were familiar with the arts of which the Indian knew nothing and that after a series of battles with the Indians, they were exterminated.'He also declared that the old burial places were the graves of an unknown people; that the old forts had not been built by the Indians, but 'belonged to a long ago people, who were of white complexion, and skilled in the arts." (Ibid, pg. 83, quoting J.P. MacLean, The Mound Builders, pg. 144)
Sephuskal 1 year ago
@kramd1"In Scipio, (about 45 miles away from Cumorah) on Salmon Creek, Mr. Halsted has, from time to time during ten years past, ploughed up, from a certain extant of land of his farm, seven or eight hundred pounds of brass, which appeared to have once been formed into various implements, both of husbandry and war; helmets and working utensils mingled together.
Sephuskal 1 year ago
@kramd1The finder of this brass, we are informed as he discovered it carried it to Auburn, and sold it by the pound, where it was worked up, with as little curiosity attendingas thought it had been an ordinary article of the country's produce. . . " (B.H. Roberts, New Witness for God, pg. 259-262)
STEEL SWORDS, COPPER BREAST PLATES AND MEDALS FOUND IN NEW YORK
"A vast many instances of articles made of copper and sometimes plated with silver, have been met with on opening their works.
Sephuskal 1 year ago
@kramd1Circular pieces of copper, intended either as medals or breastplates, have been found,several inches in diameter, very much injured by times. In several tumuli the remains of knives and even of swords, in the form of rust, have been discovered . . But besides, there have been found very well manufactured swords and knives of iron, and possibly steel, says Mr. Atwater; from which we are to conclude the primitive people of America,
Sephuskal 1 year ago
@kramd1either discovered the use of iron themselves, as the Greeks did, . . or that they carried a knowledge of this ore with them of their dispersion." (B.H. Roberts, New Witness for God, pg. 531, quoting Josiah Priest, American Antiquities, pg. 256)
"Children of different ages and the full grown seem to been piled together promiscuously. One of the skulls was found pierced by an arrow, which was still sticking in it, driven about halfway through before its force was spent.
Sephuskal 1 year ago
@kramd1The arrow point was about six inches long.The subjects of this mound were doubtless killed in battle and hastily buried. Some of the mounds are full of bones that are perforated, as though the living subjects were slain in battle, and that the skeletons were heaped together in promiscuous confusion, as if buried after a conflict." (McGavin & Bean, Geography of the Book of Mormon, pg. 74)
Curlomes could be mammoths and Cumoms could be bison.Herds of cattle were found roaming USA in 1600
Sephuskal 1 year ago
Comment removed
kramd1 1 year ago
The 3 Nephite s in action:
The Tarish Priesthood of the Nephite Church of Christ was established by the Three Nephites and not by Joseph Smith Jr.
LOL
kramd1 1 year ago
@kramd1 "The Tarish Priesthood of the Nephite Church of Christ was established by the Three Nephites and not by Joseph Smith Jr."
What ever that means... :/
Why does Principal vs among matter? Theyre both basically the same any way. You have Aztec & Mayan sharing culture, & Mayan & peruvian sharing culture. You have Zuni & Anassazi sharing culture, and Zuni & Hopi sharing culture. You have Hopi & Hopewell sharing culture, & Ute /Shoshone speaking Uto Aztecca. Principal vs among, who cares?
Sephuskal 1 year ago
New revelation : Book of Mormon change: Instead of being the "principal ancestors" of American Indians, Lamanites are now......“among the ancestors of the American Indians.”
Why the change then ? ( Oh really Hmm Sephuskal )
Up until recent DNA findings The church has been preaching American Indians & Polynesians are lamanite descendants ...150 + years since 1827 revelation.
kramd1 1 year ago
@kramd1 "Where is Zarahemla ?" Archaeologically it's most evident in Panama / Columbia Territory. But any non LDS Archaeologist that confirms anything in regards to Book of Mormon Proofs is in Jeopardy of having their credentials questioned even removed. It's sad that truth must be subverted.
DNA proves the book of Mormon True. Thanks to critics we discovered Hap X. Prior to that DNA confirmed Manasseh, which Poly's / orientals have always been, in patriarchal blessings for a century or more.
Sephuskal 1 year ago
Book of Mormon Change: Lamanites are no longer the principal ancestors of the American Indians.
kramd1 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@kramd1 "Book of Mormon Change: Lamanites are no longer the principal ancestors of the American Indians."
Some are. Who knows what mixes have occurred from 400 AD to 2011. If we had more Book of mormon type records we could find our selves closer to "which tribe is from where."
Sephuskal 1 year ago
@Sephuskal SOME is not "the principal" The mormon church has been preaching to the american indians and polynesians for 150 years that they were the descendants of the book of mormon Lamanites. Time and science has proven this not to be true.
kramd1 1 year ago
@kramd1 Oh really? Hrmm, I thought the LDS church has always maintained that the ending chapters of the Book of Mormon that Moroni finished were within the first few decades of 400 AD. I have never read anything where we have continued scripture up to 1827 in the LDS Church.
Sephuskal 1 year ago
@Sephuskal Not what Your prophets have been saying for 150 + years. "who knows"
Your right there, you don't know. Where is Zarahemla ?
kramd1 1 year ago
@kramd1 LOL let me guess,.. NOW DNA is suddenly not an exact science for the critic of LDS point of view, where as before it was a definite. lmao
Sephuskal 1 year ago
@Sephuskal Why the change from "Principal" to "among" ? ( preface to the book of mormon )
LDS have changed their view. For years American Indians have been told by mormon missionaries that their ancestors are the lamanites of the book of mormon, NoW suddenly they are not .
kramd1 1 year ago
Pilgrims in carpools and youth groups on buses drive hundreds of miles to visit them.
Before they go, the pilgrims seek permission from bishops to certify they are worthy to enter such a sacred place.
And when they arrive, their normal clothes won't do -- to go inside, they must wear white, the symbol of purity.
omiolo 1 year ago
Plans to build temple in Carmel reflect Mormon growth
omiolo 1 year ago
As I walked to my car after the meeting, I was surprised to see the mayor waiting to greet me, flanked by his staff. He stepped forward, extended his hand to me, and said, “I thank you for coming to our city and to our country. We are grateful for what you do to build up your people. With such people and such families, we could create the harmony and the prosperity we want for our people.”
omiolo 1 year ago
To discover what God would have me add to this conference, I read the messages of His servants in scripture and in past conferences. I received an answer to my prayer as I read the words of Alma, a great servant of the Lord in the Book of Mormon:
omiolo 1 year ago
Your needs are great and varied. Each of you is a unique child of God. God knows you individually. He sends messages of encouragement, correction, and direction fitted to you and to your needs.
omiolo 1 year ago
Last October in general conference I called for more missionaries. Every worthy, able young man should prepare to serve a mission. Such service is a priesthood duty—an obligation the Lord expects of us who have been given so very much.
omiolo 1 year ago
“The Living Christ: The Testimony of the Apostles” is a declaration issued in the year 2000—a year marking the commemoration of the birth of the Savior two millennia earlier. This declaration, one that has been widely quoted and published ever since, represents the collective testimony of 15 men who have been called as special witnesses of Jesus Christ.
omiolo 1 year ago
@LDS4Life71 I was trying to to match tit for tat
Sephuskal 1 year ago
An anxious soon to be Mormon father spoke frantically into the phone, "My wife is pregnant and her contractions are only two minutes apart!"
"Is this her first child?" the doctor asked.
"No, you idiot!" the man shouted. "This is her husband!"
omiolo 1 year ago
The campaign, launched last year in nine U.S. cities, generated a lot of national buzz. Its short videos featured regular folks talking about their lives as doctors, skateboarders, tax attorneys, environmentalists, surfers or former felons before announcing that they are Mormons. Nary an Osmond to be seen.
omiolo 1 year ago
Comment removed
kramd1 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Based solely on a "burning in the bosom" bereft of evidence with any and all rational logical investigation labelled as "anti Christ" or "anti mormon" implies that Mormonic psychosis is deserving of some sympathetic understanding.
kramd1 1 year ago
@kram Based solely on a "burning in the bosom" bereft of evidence w/ any and all rational logical investigation labelled as "anti Christ" or "anti mormon" implies that Mormonic psychosis is deserving of some sympathetic understanding.
Its Highly irregular to excentuate the notion that your ability to utilize an automated response regarding the very thing no living entity outside the realms of deity's bestowed upon his creation in regards to the furthering of light + knowledge is w/out merit
Sephuskal 1 year ago
@Sephuskal I would like to agree or disagree If I knew what you were saying . Not trying to be rude but I really don't get what you mean. Would it be too much to ask if you could say that different way ?
kramd1 1 year ago
She came to the verses she sought and started to read very slowly with a soft voice: “For the natural man is an enemy to God, and has been from the fall of Adam, and will be, forever and ever, unless he yields to the enticings of the Holy Spirit,
omiolo 1 year ago
and putteth off the natural man and becometh a saint through the atonement of Christ the Lord, and becometh as a child, submissive, meek, humble, patient, full of love, willing to submit to all things which the Lord seeth fit to inflict upon him, even as a child doth submit to his father.
omiolo 1 year ago
She stopped crying, and after a brief silence, she took her scriptures into her hands and started to look up some verses. The father watched as those pure and delicate hands turned the pages of the scriptures, page after page.
omiolo 1 year ago
@LDS4Life71 I am thankful for Brothers Like you in this dispensation LDSLife71. May we continue on to many Chinese food restaurants into the next 1000 yrs, and continue opening fortune cookies together lol.
Confucious say; "He who like to defend gospel of Jesus Christ will confound enemies when listening to Hoy Ghost." Lucky Numbers are 4-6-1830"
God Bless you brother.
Sephuskal 1 year ago
He kneeled next to her and said with a soft and tender voice, “I’m sorry. I apologize for what I did.” He repeated, “I’m sorry, I love you, and I don’t want to hurt you.” And then from the mouth of a child came the lesson that the Lord wanted to teach him.
omiolo 1 year ago
He really wanted to be a good father and do the right thing, so he stood up and went to his daughter’s bedroom. He gently knocked on the door several times, and there was no answer. So he slowly opened the door and found his girl sobbing and crying on her bed
omiolo 1 year ago
Let's say, for a minute, that you are interested in buying a rare collection of Mormon documents.
How rare?
Well, let's just say it is a collection of all the papers of an early member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
How early?
omiolo 1 year ago
Rare Mormon document collection for sale on eBay
By Michael Degroote
omiolo 1 year ago
At the start I thought that kid was gonna put the marble in his hat and read some Egyptian shit. This kids gonna be confused when some Natives start getting pissed off when he insists they are Jews. Fuck.
pisswizard 1 year ago
She's visited her parents in Siberia, where they resided until recently and where her dad worked in a Titanium factor (until Boeing transferred him to China). If you're not intrigued by this point, I should mention that she's the first half-Mexican Mormon I've had the pleasure of speaking with.
omiolo 1 year ago
There are more details of her life that make her interesting and as one friend stated, those facts have made it so that "Elna had to write a memoir." Without giving too much away, let's just say she grew up in Seattle, Madrid and London.
omiolo 1 year ago
Elna Baker is attractive, engaging and looking for love in New York City. If you're thinking typical, think again: She's also a writer, a hilarious stand-up comic and a solo performer who specializes in storytelling. Oh, and she's a practicing Mormon. That means no sex. So Elna Baker is a 28-year-old virgin living in the big city, and that would mean she is not typical
omiolo 1 year ago
@LDS4Life71 Where is zarahemla ?
kramd1 1 year ago
Posey lived during a time of great change as cattlemen, miners, and Mormon pioneers moved onto the hunting and gathering lands of the Ute people
omiolo 1 year ago
@omioloThe train was besieged by Indians and local Mormons dressed as Indians. Fighting lasted until Sept. 11, when John D. Lee, representing the Mormons and the adopted son of Mormon leader Brigham Young, rode into the wagon camp under a white flag. Lee said the Indians would allow train member to leave, unarmed and without their possessions, under a Mormon escort.
kramd1 1 year ago
We all aspire to fill the measure of our creation, and we respond intuitively and powerfully to whomever or whatever entices and challenges us to develop, to unleash, the divine potential within.
omiolo 1 year ago
@omioloThe attackers not only took the wagons and all the goods, but stripped the bodies of clothing and jewelry, Bob Fanchon said, and the bodies were left on the ground. The surviving children were taken in by Mormon families.
kramd1 1 year ago
@kramd1 Most of this has been disproved. Put DOWN the ANTImormon propaganda and embrace truth.
omiolo 1 year ago
@omiolo A 5 year old survivor who told a reporter two years after the event. " my father was killed by indians; when they washed their faces, they were white men."
kramd1 1 year ago
@kramd1 They auctioned off the goods and wagons and John D Lee kept most of the cattle. After eventually the remains were buried (not by Mormons they let the corpses rot) Brigham Young came along and desecrated the Cairn and cross that was set as a memorial.
pisswizard 1 year ago
When they laid down their weapons of rebellion, they qualified themselves for the Lord’s healing and peace, and so can we. The Savior assures, “If they harden not their hearts, and stiffen not their necks against me, they shall be converted, and I will heal them.
omiolo 1 year ago
@omioloFor Mormons, the lack of discernible Hebrew blood in American Indians is no minor collision between faith and science. It burrows into the historical foundations of the Book of Mormon, a 175-year-old transcription that the church regards as literal and without error.
kramd1 1 year ago
Respond to this video...
"Over the years, church prophets and missionaries have used the ancestral link between the ancient Hebrews and American Indians and Polynesians as a prime conversion tool in Central and South America and the South Pacific."
kramd1 1 year ago
Respond to this video...
"You've got Mormon apologists in their own publications rejecting what prophets have been saying for decades. This becomes very troubling for ordinary members of the church,"
kramd1 1 year ago
@kramd1 "Respond to this video."
READ the Book of Mormon. For me to try and discuss with you a book you do NOT know let alone read is an example of FUTILITY on my part.
omiolo 1 year ago
@omiolo"The author labored to give his words and phrases the quaint, old-fashioned sound and structure of our King James's translation of the Scriptures.... Whenever he found his speech growing too modern -- which was about every sentence or two -- he ladled in a few such Scriptural phrases as "exceeding sore," "and it came to pass," etc., and made things satisfactory again. "And it came to pass" was his pet. If he had left that out, his Bible would have been only a pamphlet." Mark Twain
kramd1 1 year ago
@kramd1 "Mark Twain"
oh yes, Mark Twain the man who fought against the Mormons because they were AGAINST slavery and Twain was for slavery in Missouri. Once AGAIN KRAMD1 chooses the side of EVIL.
omiolo 1 year ago
@omiolo subject is "READ the book of Mormon" as you suggested. I have & so has Mark Twain.
I agree with his comment re " And it came to pass" being overly used. Noting: the plagiarisms of KJV bible namely the beatitude being copied word for word. Note: the dead sea scrolls have an earlier version of the beatitudes, somewhat different. Not to mention the large slabs of Isaiah also borrowed.
re: Twains prejudices Smith excluded the blacks and refereed to them as cursed niggers. Evil ?
kramd1 1 year ago
@kramd1 "I have & so has Mark Twain."
skimming ANTImormon propaganda is NOT reading the BOM. NO matter what Steve Benson tells you.
omiolo 1 year ago
@omiolo hah. who is Steve Benson?
Sephuskal 1 year ago
@Sephuskal Steve Benson is a famous ANTImormon who went around the Nation and the world telling everyone what a great family and life he has had since he left the LDS Church. He event went to say how his marriage was stronger. His wife divorced him a few years ago and spilled the beans. Turns out he is abusive, and the family was so dysfunctional the kids were put on drugs and to this day some of his kids and wife won't speak to him. But at least he was a good ANTImormon......
omiolo 1 year ago
@omiolo hrmm sounds like a lyndon lambert scenario
Sephuskal 1 year ago
@Sephuskal Lyndon is divorced?
omiolo 1 year ago
@omiolo I don't know if he's divorced. But judging from both his convo with me, and Samual the Utahnite, I bet they are the same person. Samual the utahnite is abusive.
Sephuskal 1 year ago
@Sephuskal "Samual the Utahnite, I bet they are the same person"
thanks for the information. We I tried to chat with him, he kept going around in circles and then sending me down more and more rabbit holes. I felt like I was dealing with a lunatic. But in his videos he didn't come off as a lunatic but just frantic.
omiolo 1 year ago
@omiolo Yea. They both are sociopathic in words. Kinda scary to think they / HE roamed the Halls of Gods Churches as far as I'm concerned.
Sephuskal 1 year ago
@Sephuskal Do you think they will ever return?
omiolo 1 year ago
@omiolo Return To the Church? Like Mormon, I don't have much hope for those who have known the Holy Ghost & then abandoned it.
I believe we are in "Sifter" mode right now in the Kingdom of God. I believe we are in the beginnings of when the Very elite will be deceived. I believe we are about see severe Hardship in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, & a season of apostasy.
yet I believe the Church will stand & not fall again. What about you Omiolo? Are You more Optimistic than I?
Sephuskal 1 year ago
@Sephuskal I think if they hit rock bottom and are forced to re-evaluate their lives and ask themselves where they went wrong, they will return. Similar to many in the early days of the Church. Like Thomas B. Marsh, who nobody recognized when he eventually returned. If they continue close to bottom but don't hit it, I think they don't return. My 2 cents.
omiolo 1 year ago
@Sephuskal "when the Very elite will be deceived"
when Lyndon left, I remember him just wanting anyone to listen to him. Like a scorned woman. Lyndon was willing to get in bed with ANYONE that would listen. I personally found it pathetic.
omiolo 1 year ago
@omiolo "Pathetic" is a common adjective I see with those in Opposition to God.
Misery loves company as much as happiness does. I just think that Human nature is habitual spiritually as much as it is in any other sense as well. Once someone burns a Bridge, rebuilding it is such a challenge, & also knowing things wont be the same again, makes it so that only the Strongest & humblest person will return.
there are somethings done and said you can never take back. Youtube has opened my eyes.
Sephuskal 1 year ago
@omioloThe wagon train members — women holding their infants, children under the age of eight in one group, older children in another group and the men with individual Mormon escorts — walked along a one-mile stretch away from the wagons. Then a signal was given, and all but the youngest were massacred.
kramd1 1 year ago
But before their conversion, remember their state: they were living in what the scriptures call “open rebellion against God.” Their rebellious hearts sentenced them to live “in a state contrary to the nature of happiness” because they had “gone contrary to the nature of God.
omiolo 1 year ago
Seven witnesses testified to having seen and handled the plates .... They described the plates as being eighteen in number, each measuring approximately seven and three-eighths inches wide, by nine inches long. The plates themselves were "occasionally embellished with beautiful pictures," and all appeared to be of "beautiful antique workmanship, bearing a striking resemblance to the ancient oriental languages.Strang clearly identifies the "Plates of Laban" as the source for most of his book.
kramd1 1 year ago
@kramd1 Some of those 7 witnesses later admitted that they helped Strang actually fabricate those plates.
You are anti-Christ.
ImLDSRU2 1 year ago
I'm certainly open to all new evidences and data on this topic, but I have yet to see how the Great Lakes data supports the Book of Mormon text on geographical, cultural, archaeological, and climatological requirements and inferences. . .
omiolo 1 year ago
@omiolo Book of the Law comprised only part of the Plates of Laban, rather than the whole.
Strang managed to win enough disciples to form a viable organization of his own. Among the more prominent of these were four of the eleven witnesses to The Book of Mormon.
kramd1 1 year ago
@kramd1 Many early and prominent Christians were also swayed into false beliefs -- some even during the time of Christ.
You are anti-Christ.
ImLDSRU2 1 year ago
To emphasize what I've already stated many times in this series, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has no official position on the location of Book of Mormon events and no revelation has been given regarding such locations. In the absence of revelation, we are left on our own to examine, analyze and debate the issue.
omiolo 1 year ago
@omiolo
Strang's letter convinced several eminent Mormons of his claims. Book of Mormon witnesses John and David Whitmer, Martin Harris and Hiram Page, Apostles John E. Page, William E. M'Lellin, and William Smith, Smith's sisters, Nauvoo Stake President William Marks, Bishop George Miller, and Joseph Smith's mother, Lucy Mack Smith
kramd1 1 year ago
@kramd1 LOl King Strang? the lawyer land developer and scientist? Brigham said: "The Strangites were once with us, in full fellowship with us, and the Lord spewed them out of his church and will purge out many more. He purifies the hearts and feelings and bodies of his saints and makes manifest the hypocrite and the evil doer that they may go to their own place and the saints will be gathered home to Zion. "
What are the strangites doing these days? not missionary work or building temples.
Sephuskal 1 year ago
@Sephuskal“testimony” (consisting of a “burning in the bosom” sensation) ...the main test for determining whether the potential convert should become a member of the LDS Church.
kramd1 1 year ago
@kramd1 “testimony” (consisting of a “burning in the bosom” sensation) ...the main test for determining whether the potential convert should become a member of the LDS Church.
Thats what a follower of Christ is supposed to feel when recieiving revelation. Are you a follower of Christ? or an anti Christ?
Sephuskal 1 year ago
There are over 100 splinter Mormon groups have developed on the foundation of the Prophet Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon, all of these movements base their authority on the Book of Mormon and the Prophet Joseph Smith, how can a "testimony" gained through praying about the Book of Mormon be sufficient to prove which church of all of these movements one should join?
kramd1 1 year ago
Comment removed
Sephuskal 1 year ago
Well I belong to the original Church that Kept the keys, & the name & dispersed them to the apostles, the same way Christs Church did after he was resurrected.
I belong to the Church that is growing &building stakes and temples. I belong to the Church that does the biggest Humanitarian effort and preaches the gospel 2x2
I belong to the church that ACTUALLY has priesthood authority, and men that ACTUALLY have seen and talked with Christ.
I belong to the Church where I have witnessed Christ.
Sephuskal 1 year ago
@Sephuskal Based solely on a "burning in the bosom" bereft of evidence with a defence of rational logical investigation labelled anti Christ as if the psychosis is deserving of sympathetic understanding.
kramd1 1 year ago
@kramd1 I take it you are no Christian. Since you didn't want to answer my question directly. Agnostic at least? evolutionist? or just flat our Atheist?
I suppose to support you with Luke 24:32And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, & while he opened to us the scriptures?
A proof positive that Man knows the will of God, & the truth of his word by manifestations in the heart and mind. It's a lot more than just a warm fuzzy I assure U.
Sephuskal 1 year ago