Dogfights: Last Gunfighter : Dick Schaffert - Part 2 of 2

[16rumpole]

there are badasses, then there are badasses and then there is Dick Schaffert

[Kilooscarromeo]

That F8 Crusader was really something & put a wildman in it LOOK OUT

[Change6609]

This pilot was really a Top Gun! And he does not make the impression of beeing an 'iron eater';-)

[watcher05er]

They actually made a super F-8 crusader but never put in production. F-8 is always loved by navy's pilot. In many ways, it is far more better than the F-4.

[Defender78]

LOL how the midair "cameraman" shakes when the planes fly past him!!

[falcon2160]

The truth is probably near the middle. I wonder how many MIGS we would have shot

down if the bird brains in the Pentagon had not decided to exclude guns on the F-4 Phantom from the start. I guess your no fan of the USA. I bet you or your parents immigrated here from Vietnam. Am I right?

I think your probably right, NVAF had to have had some good pilots also. They're one reason our vaunted 10:1 kill ratio of WWII ans Korea went to 1.5-2.5:1 in SEA.

[nelsonmars]

Sometimes the plane has missiles, sometimes it does not. Mistakes are part of the take. Great animation nonetheless

[iowa61]

Jesus! Missiles broke. Guns broke! The Crusader was a great aircraft; it and its pilots deserved better...

[bfahren]

@iowa61 Colt Mk.12 20mm cannon was a piece of shit. I still dont know why the Navy kept it when they knew how easly it jammed.

[azamstat]

In ten minutes fight, no one came to help him, was Schaffert so unpopular among his friends?

[azamstat]

The fight went for ten minutes and no other American plane came for help? Was Schaffert so unpopular among his fellows?

[icunowlibra]

crusader top speed was higher than the mig. when his guns jammed, why didn't he just disengage?

[pjt]

Its one of those complexes. You just want to show that pilot whos the butch and the bitch in sky.

[Plawranc]

Thats what I would do, but I would have used more vertical moves and acted agressively.

[Lordprestor]

Oooohhhhh! kay!!! Sorry, shoulda been clearer I guess... 19:3 eh, interesting.

[plugs313]

No......way......dude. More like 2:1 at best.

[psq007]

no duh..

vietnam only had about 50 aircrafts that were given by Russia

Vietnamese are poor and poorly equipped

Usa was rich and had thousands of planes sent to vietnam

Vietnam war was like egg against rock.

But still Vietnamese people won.

[rg500delta]

just goes to show how hard it is to fight a war when the people back home are against, and politicians tell the soldiers what to do. Have read many accounts by pilots, stories of what target they could bomb, what they could not, they stumble across an ammunition depot and were not allowed to attack because it was not on the "yes" list for that day. N. Vietnamese extremely dedicated, tough, and resourceful, no argument. But US military fought on a leash.

[psq007]

bomb and not to bomb?

have you even heard of carpet bombing, my friend?

they fucking BLOW everything apart. children , women, whatever, are all dead.

have you seen that famous picture of the naked girl running out of a burnt village, skin ripped off from the burns? yes, that was USA's work. napalming everything on the way. and u know what lame excuse was? "to expose the vietcong troops from hiding". yeah fucking right.

[rg500delta]

You have a lot of passion but probably just missed that last slot on your debate team.

[oriskany]

When you get punched right in the nose you'll know what reality is.

[psq007]

when you start reading a book you will know video games are not reality.

[rg500delta]

US pilots faced top-level Soviet pilots as well, in Vietnam. Not so poorly trained or equipped! One Soviet pilot claimed 6 kills against USAF over Vietnam.

[psq007]

you are a stooge.

russians NEVER EVER faced the usa directly in air. get your facts straight. if they did, it would have lead to a bigger war. Russians were only co pilots during the fight , training the vietcong in front to kill the enemy.

the only russians that fought directly agaist the us are the rocket crews. ex. the russian guy who shot down Mccain.

[rg500delta]

Ah- I must have forgotten the part where I was supposed to insult you, to start off. Is that how it works? OK: you are naive. I was not there, so am only going from what I have read in magazines and online. NV defectors claimed Soviet pilots were in combat, some soviets have made the same claims. Maybe you have all the answers!

"get your facts straight" ... as though we will ever know what is a fact and what is not on this topic.

[psq007]

yes the russians were in combat, but like i said , they were only the co pilots.

they had no authority to shoot, lauch missiles, or anything as such. they did directly showed when to launch missiles correctly, etc. Mnay of the kills that migs got , russians were on the jet, but the vietcong controlled it. russians only trained them.

[rg500delta]

There were no 2-seater MiG - 17s, were there? MiG-21 had 2-seater versions, though.

[psq007]

not the mig 17s., no.

some chinese clones of mig 19s were modified to have 2 seats.

the mig 21s, yes.

[EasyEs]

Well anecdotal evidence suggest the Soviet pilots were not shit hot..

5 were shot down in one day by the IAF in the 73 war..to no losses

[ireload2]

@psq007

Won what? The country is still 3rd world.

[psq007]

@ireload2

further enforces my point that a developed country coudnt beat guerrilla fighters living in the jungles..

[ireload2]

@psq007

It won nothing.

Tell your story to the Japs that fought at Guadalcanal.

[psq007]

where did you pull that out of?

[privatesteverogers]

I was wondering if anyone had the rest of the epidose to post.

[heavyarms01h]

Those MiG pilots must have been either awed or really frustrated (that the American was so good that they just couldn't nail him)or both when they got back to base.

[Ghost096]

maximum amount of missiles that a F-8 can carry is 6. the last models carried 6 sidewinders. man you gotta feel sorry for the Phantom pilots because their sparrows we absolutely worthless. not only were they easy to evade but you had to stay locked to the Mig until impact which makes you very vulnerable to enemy aircraft. they would have absolutely killed in in the air war if they weren't controlled from the ground that's the only reason we won the air war.

[NVanWendy]

The makers of these otherwise impressive pieces bug me with their carelessness! Schaffert fires one Sidewinder which doesn't lock; another, he "doesn't have time to watch" for; then at 1:20 all his SWs are back! He shoots at another MiG who is then inexplicably "out of the fight," yet not shot down, we learn later. Then we're told he's OUT of SWs - where's #4? Then at 5:37 the missiles are back briefly, and again at 6:14 they're back for good! Beautiful CG work and poor continuity.

[cas343]

...Does it really matter?

[NVanWendy]

Yeah, it does.

[cas343]

All his missiles missed, and you like wrote a freakin paragraph about how he happens to have more than he's supposed to.

[NVanWendy]

Yup.

[cas343]

Why? Obviously he's used them all since he's running away from a perfectly good kill, so its just a meaningless glitch.

[NVanWendy]

You know what I also complained about in another "Dogfight?" They were talking about this guy slamming the controls this way and that, and high G turns, and the control surfaces never moved!

[cas343]

Lol, dude you should become like a Private Investigator or something.

[NVanWendy]

Too late to change jobs; I'll have to stay a model builder (also a picky profession). Oh, and that's dudette to you, cas.  ;-)

[kayakutah]

Okay...you gotta respect a female who is this into the realism of a dogfight reinactment!

[lpdoby]

It's not just about the number of kills. It's also about getting yourself, your crew (if you have a crew), and your aircraft back unharmed. 4 aircraft engaged him, 2 others shot at him, and because of his skill and GUTS, none of them could bring him down.

[Raywollesenfortes]

Sweet! Significant indeed. Balls out dogfighting right there provided by Mr. Schaffert no less. A sterling example of airmanship skills.

[PaulSoth]

One has to wonder if any of the NV pilots in this engagement survived the war and are still alive today. It be interesting to track them down and get their accounts, presuming someone hasn't already done that.

[timpska]

Awesome.

[Randomnick123]

In that situation, the physical things and better plane went over a skills. Also 17's had bad luck, since none of the many attacks didnt hit.

But as a man who lives for the fly, i must say that guy did right. He showed the vietnamese pilot, whos the winner of the fight.. Even he didnt shot the mig leader down due gun failure.

[omnislashvr13]

the thing is Guns are the dominant weapon in Air to air combat. So if you got a missile on your tail try to make it over shoot and shot about 20 rounds into it

[Hansinator5000]

no...most air to air kills are made by missiles...most fighters today are armed with a single gun in case their opponent gets too close for a missile shot to lock...and you'd probably have to be one lucky bastard to hit something like a sidewinder missile with a gun.

[Merlin161]

Also...A VF-162 F-8E (BuNo 150908) flown by the squadron's skipper, Commander Dick Bellinger was hit by MiGs on July 14, 1966. Cmdr Bellinger attempted to divert to Da Nang, but exhausted his fuel and was forced to eject. An F-8E (BuNo 150896) from VF-111 was lost to MiGs on September 5, 1966. The pilot, Captain W. K. Abbot on exchange from the USAF, ejected and became a POW. On October 9, 1966, CDR Bellinger shot down a MiG-21, scoring the first Navy victory against that type.

[mig15fan]

On June 21 1966 four MiG-17s of the 923rd FR engaged an RF-8A recce plane and its escorting F-8 Crusaders of VF-211. Even as the escorting Crusaders destroyed two MiGs, Nguyen Van Bay opened his score when he bagged the F-8E of Cole Black, who ejected and became a POW. Even more important, the VPAF pilots achieved their main goal; as Bay and his buddies distracted the escort, Phan Thanh Trung in the lead MiG shot down the RF-8A. The pilot, Leonard Eastman, was also taken prisoner.

[mig15fan]

Good taltk!

Pertaining to experts issue, I call experts people that  has been doing reaserch to separate propaganda fron reality facts for both sides,not certanly an easy task!

Regars and... a la chasse!

[Merlin161]

Yeah I know what you mean about separating propaganda from facts being a difficult task;) The general results really matter though: The US had the technology, the planes and man-for-man better-trained personel than the NVAF. But in the end, regardless of those facts, Vietnam was a defeat for the US. This goes to show that wars are not all about glory, technology and topguns, and you need more than these to win. Regards buddy!

[FalconKPD]

By the end of the Vietnam war, we had near air supieriority. It was the ground battles that gave us trouble.

[mig15fan]

OK,HC nice (spite of video game looking graphics)documentary,"but" the true story, is the WHOLE story.Top Vietnam air war ace,was Lt. Nguyen van Coc, nine kills ,including many F-4 and F-105.Just need to check it at google.He was then known as the "phantom" Killer.Unfortunately,vietnames­e made a mistake that certanly exclude them from history chanel documentary:they defeated americans.Other "enemy" aces are much lucky, then remaining axis aces are quitet frequen in documentaries.

[YouT00ber]

Did they even mention any kind of top ace in this clip?

The mistake is expecting shows on a general interest pop history cable channel for commercial US television to be an acedemic excercise of every side of an event.

in any case, this guy props.

[Merlin161]

How many of those kills were made against aircraft configured for air combat?

[mig15fan]

I see your point. Lt. van Coc Mig achieved many victories with 23mm canon fire,due to unrelieble nature os soviet K-13 IR guided missile.And may be Youtoober is right and DF must be regarded as is: history inspired great tv show, but I insist, its partially focused aproach, in wich USAF emerge as an invincible power without exeption, can led unaware viewer to wrong apreciation of Vietnam air war ops,in wich,USAF pilots were facing capable enemy pilots instead portrayed sitting ducks!

[Merlin161]

No one's invincible, that I agree. The vast majority of American air losses were the result of Anti-Aircraft Artillery. The NVAF did not have enough resources to adequately contest the American air arms. I don't doubt the NVAF had capable pilots but there were not enough of them. If the ROE were more relaxed then it is very likely that the NVAF would've been more of the sitting ducks than they actually were. The majority of NVAF victories were against bombers or strike-configured aircraft.

[mig15fan]

Dear Merlyn,I like it this way man!It´s been a words dogfight between two gentleman in wich amo were sustained arguments.I feel respect for that.

But... lets return tp our dogfight!

Experts today agree that NVAF, due to the fact they were outnumbered, operated in a traget rich environment, so, many pilots achieved more than 5 kills.Of that confirmed kills,none has been against bombers.I agree that many were against strike configured planes,with figther cover.Regards

[Merlin161]

So an A-6 Intruder is not a Bomber? How about the B-52? Examples of both aircraft have been shot down by the NVAF. BTW who do you mean by "Experts". You're not talking about yourself are you? I don't buy it when people start saying sentences begining with 'Experts state' or 'Experts agree'. I'm not an expert, but I reserve the right to form my own opinion inspite of what so-called experts have to say. After all they're human, & they can get it wrong too eg. "Dogfighting is Obsolete".

[Merlin161]

And I do agree that for the NVAF the skies above their homeland was a target-rich environment. But you must consider that for the amount of sorties generated by the Americans versus the amount of losses suffered at the hands of the enemy fighters, the influence of the NVAF on American air operations was generally not significant. SAM's and AAA on the other hand were more of a worry for the US airmen. The NVAF was the weakest link (by fear factor) in the North Vietnamese IADS.

[Change6609]

@mig15fan

We'll, then let's be glad that Vietnam and USA nowadays are friends again so that they can combine their best men should that be necessary.

[chelsithomas]

Obviously a student of tactics: an Expert Pilot and probably more! Only a few guys like this exist!

[kellykhuynh]

Missiles suck.

[magicstorm1]

lol hahahahaha!..if Vietnamese fighter pilot were at WW2..they would beat the US in pacific war.Too bad vietnam was a poor country at that era!

[kbroma01]

Beat the U.S. in the Pacifice War??? Ha Ha Ha! I must compliment you on your dream. Why was Vietnam such a poor country during that era? Weren't they just as smart as people in the U.S.?

[Khaoz67]

but, i bet that Erich hartmann didnt face 4 pilots all at once! Schaffert didnt shoot any1 down but its amazing on how he took on 4 fighter pilots w/o loosing his life.

[JetFireblade]

I think fighting a war is a moral issue. If you don't like your government's foreign policy DON'T JOIN THE MILITARY! or at least defect or don't try or something. Admire the skill not the man, I say.

[Khaoz67]

agreed.

[JetFireblade]

what war was that in? Are you complimenting a commiter of genocide?

[hitnrunner303]

Thats a master piece of aviation, however the MiG-21 is a much better aircraft than the F-8. They should of engaged that single crusader while getting assisted by 4 17s... Thank you for uploading this, you should upload some more episiodes.

[kbroma01]

If the Mig-21 was a better aircraft, why did the pilots run away from "one" Crusader? Sounds to me like they knew the Crusader was quite a good aircraft.

[JetFireblade]

Or quite a good pilot :)

[Crimmond]

The 21's were too valuable to risk in a dogfight. They didn't have enough of them and obviously they realized the pilot of the F8 was a good pilot to have survived four on one for as long as he had.

If they had engaged, it would have been the last time either pilot flew.

[Ghost096]

actually if u remembered the NV pilots were not like our pilots becuase they wernt controlled by the leader but by the ground control. they could not engage unless ground control gave them the all clear. the mig 21's were probably sent to intercept a much bigger target opportunity. remember mig 21s were designed as an interceptor not a dog fighter like the mig 17.

[derBUmann]

they said that there was a bigger attack at the beginning

[Hansinator5000]

MiG-21s only advantage over the F-8 was higher speed at higher altitude, the F-8 could outclimb it, and could outturn anything but the MiG-17 at lower altitudes. Also, the F-8 never suffered a loss from enemy MiGs in vietnam.

[Merlin161]

I think there were atleast 3 F-8's lost to enemy MiG's during the Vietnam War. The Commanding Officer of VF-162, Cdr Richard Bellinger was a victim of a MiG-17, but got his revenge against a MiG-21 later on.

[Hansinator5000]

no, those three f-8s were shot down by AAA.

[Merlin161]

Official U.S.N. records state a 19:3 Kill-To-Loss Ratio. In other words 19 NVAF MiGs shot down for the loss of 3 F-8 Crusaders in air combat. In total, 118 F-8 Crusaders were lost; 57 of them (including the 3 lost in dogfights) in combat during the Vietnam War.

[Hansinator5000]

I don't know. I've read from some major books that crusaders had a 19:0 loss rate against migs, but I think you're right about that. That's still an excellent air-to-air combat record, best of any fighter in vietnam

[Merlin161]

Yes, the Crusader was a great fighter. I wonder if there are any today in flyable condition. If I had the cash I'd certainly like to restore one.

[Poseidon500]

It was a great fighter but one of the planes weaknesses was showcased in the video. The guns jam at high g's

[derBUmann]

and isnt that what counts on a FIGHTER? :P

[Poseidon500]

In those days guns were essential, since the missles would miss 70% of the time.

[swaterik1986]

amazing series!!!

[Sexxor69]

coolgirl want a cookie or sumtin?

[coolgirl101101101]

hey guys im in the airforce i know what its like to fly an f8

[alielhaddad]

cool girl ,, so u enjoy sex also in the airforce? :P

[YouT00ber]

Nice to see a guy w/ enough respect for women to leave a comment like this. u some kind of a-hole or something?

[flyzies]

cool...what plane u fly now?

[FalconKPD]

There are two things wrong with that coolgirl, the F-8 has been out of service for over 28 years, and it was used by the U.S. Navy, not the Airforce.

[DarthSithari]

Out-freaking-standing. Only way to express it.

[omnislashvr13]

lol that wierd that the F8 still has sidewinders

[Blue387]

The narrator says Dick Shaffert is out of missiles but the model at 4:21 still has missiles.

[flyboyII]

yeah, I know. There's a lot of cases like this in these types of documentries, because they re-use footage instead of making new. This lowers the cost of production. Lazy-ass producers.

[speckfire01]

Beautiful

[Grazydine]

At a number of times during that engagement had i been there i think i would have put the nose down and been gone. The mig-17 could only watch as i left, but he kept playing with them, had i been his rio i would've been "Uh Dick can we go now i'm scared"

[Northax]

A million times respect to him; he had balls of steel, for sure.

[regztigershark]

Must be the reason Crusaders are single seat. The pilots are nuts and no one would want to fly with them :D

[Iamnottheyeti]

this shows that power/speed >> maneuvrability.

gota love pilots who know how to perserve energy in dogfights and absolutly dominate a dogfight because of beter energy management

[flyzies]

Not really...

Every good fighter pilot knows they have to play to their strengths...if their strength is in maneuverability, then theyre not gonna take the dogfight into the vertical

[youarthurhu]

Terrific modeling except on one shot the sidewinders have fallen down to the bottom edge, other shots are correct. Phantom lacked guns because that was the F8's job, but it replaced the F8 and F-105 as primary air superiority fighter for reasons I can't fully explain as the F4 is far from a perfect dogfighter as well.

[Crimmond]

I can explain the reasons:

Heavy.

Not aerodynamic enough.

Not designed for dogfighting.

It was an awesome multi-role plane, but as with all multi-role planes, it could never be king of any of those roles.

[MauserK43]

F-8's had a nick-name during Vietnam and that was "The MIG Killer"

[youarthurhu]

The F-105 got a bum rap as a crappy dogfighter. Kill ratio of 1.6 to 1 was better than Phantom early 1:1, and it's main job was hauling bombs or running away if they saw Migs. M61 vulcan worked so well, it was put on USAF F-4E and every fighter after that.

[kemicalmoz]

Dick, you are my new hero sir, i had healthy respect for MiG17's but the F8 obviously was a more powerful piece of equipment

[YouT00ber]

Yeah, the Mig17 was still good stuff, but I hadn't realized what an F8 could really do before this. damn!

[nakazatoGTR]

damn, if those cannons were 20 mm mini's.

damn the mig then.

[WulfAce]

Just love that F8 and Schaffert was hell of a pilot and

knew he had to outfly those migs or die.

The North vietnamese only attacked when things were in their favour and he was lucky as well as skillful.

[Merlin161]

That's only logical as the NVAF didn't have as many planes and had to husband their assets very carefully. That said, this engagement only keeps proving that it is the pilot more than the airplane he/she is flying that makes the difference. I agree, the F-8 was awesome, and Schaffert is great!

[pinkeye2k]

"Worst Episode in Weapon Technology "

Note: AIM9s don't work..

Note: Cannons Jam..

[Hansinator5000]

High g's jammed cannons I think, and early air-to-air missiles had high failure rates.

[regztigershark]

He said the link broke due to too many Gs while firing, which isn't exactly a jam

[kcf881]

wow!

[hdgcfcf]

When he pulled off that barrel roll down onto the 2nd Mig Squadron, why didn't he stay upside down instead of doing another barrel roll immediately to righten himself up? He could have pulled off another reverse barrel climb and drop to get back at the MiGs.

Other else than that, very good dogfight. He must have been made out of steel to withstand GForces continiously for ten minutes.

[SephirothRaiku]

That's fucking unbeliviable. I'd buy that guy a beer. Fucking sweet.

[hitman912]

fucking stud