Design Argument for God's Existence - Hamza Tzortzis

[Summayah89]

Brother Hamza looks like Gerard Butler in 300!

[garvian]

you have given some good things to think about but the probability part does not settle well with me. the chance that it will occur at a certain time is infinitely small, but that is the chance for an event like the big bang to occur right? it is impossible to tell how long the universe was in that form bubbling chaotically until it finally got it right. since there is infinite chances to get it right, the probability that it will eventually happen is certain

[capoman1]

The fine tuning argument is not accurately founded. It argues that our current conditions are "very improbable." But in probability, we measure within sample sets. So in this case, our sample set is only one. We have on trial, and we are making conclusions based on that ONE! I hope you see the absurdity of this.

[capoman1]

So the "Quran uses this argument?" Or have modern day theists clung to this philosophical argument.

I don't really see why an authoritative book needs our philosophical arguments to PROVE or VALIDATE it. If it is the book FROM GOD, then why do we need philosophical defenses beyond it? Does this make sense to you?

[12tod]

what a waste of time. why not do something useful like develop a cure for aids?

[jayyy689]

@12tod Are u doin something useful like developing a cure for aids

[12tod]

@jayyy689 Yes, a MSc maths student contributing to the growth of knowledge.

You know hard work at university has a better track record at achieving this, which is what frustrates me so much about lazy people like hamza here. Hence the tone of my comment.

[jayyy689]

@12tod Hey, Hamza is clearly not lazy person, neither intellectually or physically (he's a boxer)..... but without trying to be cheesy or cheeky I want to tell u a parable of a mystic called "Information and Knowledge"...... However much u study, u cannot know without action. A donkey laden with books is neither an intellectual nor a wise man.

Empty of essence, wat learning has he- whether upon him is firewood or book.

I'm not sayin Hamzas perfect, but it's something to think about.

[BindingAxon]

what a waste of time, he does not even knows what he is talking about

[Callern]

In our galaxy alone, there are about 4 trillion planets. Estimations say that there might be 125 galaxies in our universe. And of course there is the possibility that there are other universes outside "ours".

And you are actually saying that it would be the mantra of a madman to claim that this is because of chance? Is it really that hard to believe that at least one of these quadrillion planets might actually be able to produce intelligent life, and that we live on one such planet?

[FATAL12SKILLZ]

@Callern so your saying the universe created itself... So you do believe in a creator.

[FATAL12SKILLZ]

@Callern go throw paint on a board 4 trillion times and see if you will get the Mona Lisa. You wont. So how can you believe that all this came from chance.

[alexanderalexandrou]

And on a more personal note, I was already embarrassed enough about the international ridicule of Greece due to its corrupt politico-economic system, I was already embarrassed that most of my fellow Greek countrymen are superstitious fools, but seeing a Greek man like Tzorztis here as a spokesperson for the most violent superstition of all, islam, definitely brought about a deep sigh and a clear "oh, no..." reaction in me. Use your mind for something more productive man!

[alexanderalexandrou]

Bottom line, you are using 1 data point to extrapolate that the universe is so perfectly designed for life. It's so good to life as compared to what?? To the many other universes that we have seen that are not?? I can just as logically suggest that this is a very hostile universe, since life can survive in a miniscule part of it and wouldn't last more than a few seconds in most places. Since we have nothing to compare it to, we are both making up crap. Utter nonsense, already used by christians.

[alexanderalexandrou]

I know that airplanes and rhinos don't appear on lawns by chance because I have a point of reference, I have seen rhinos give birth to rhinos and people design and build airplanes (on TV at least); therefore, I don't suppose they appear by chance anywhere. How many points of reference do you have for the creation of universes? Are you talking based on your experience of observing and experiencing multiple universes being created? Universe /= rhino or plane. This is argument is idiotic.

[OASISriffs]

The only people that will find this convincing are Muslims looking on the internet for confirmation bias for what they already believe (just to reinforce it). Those who have a grasp of the topics covered find this laughably stupid.

[TheBeardedMan01]

@OASISriffs

Okay, please expand more on this.. Because currently you are not making any case what so ever.

[OASISriffs]

@TheBeardedMan01 If you tried this on someone who had never heard of Islam and wasn't a child, they would laugh and think you were crazy. However if you show this to someone who already strongly thinks there is a man in the sky called Allah who controls the universe and answers your wishes then you'll think the arguments in his video are obviously true because your just trying o reinforce what you already believe.

[TheBeardedMan01]

@OASISriffs

You still havn't made a case what so ever.

Hamza's argument is valid. The universe if finely tuned for life. In other words it has a specified functional outcome, which is illogical to explain by chance. Therefore, the creation of the universe and the constants within it have been finely tunned by an intelligent designer. This is the only argument that can match the criteria of casual adequacy. The argument of the fine tuning of the universe was presented by two physicist.

[OASISriffs]

@TheBeardedMan01 I've replied to precisely the "fine tuning" argument to so many christian creationists. It's a deistic argument even if it were true. You are a theist, you believe in a human like god who cares and messes around with the lives of this one particular species an this one plane in this galaxy in this universe.

Doesn't prove the case for a theistic god, ironically all the opposing religion try this argument.

[TheBeardedMan01]

@OASISriffs

Again, you haven't made a case against it. All you are saying is that all theist use this argument and all that. However, I do agree that this doesn't prove a god that is involved within the universe. But that is another argument. The fine tuning argument is to prove the existence of a god.

[theproudONE92]

@CesarPhilosophe thats why its a theorrrrrrry?? rightttt

[switchaka345]

Wow you really are stupid. Poor guy, brainwashed by a religion :(

[blopajmbar62]

Haha atheists are dumb

[Torrentthoughts]

LoL, scientific mumbo jumbo

[DanGRtheMan]

islam and the quran also believes homosexuality is wrong and unnatural, when scientists have proven that gay men are born with female like brains in male bodies and vice versa for lesbian women. So it is natural, and therefore the quran and islam is demonising something natural. is Hamza saying if he doesnt have islam, he will go around raping and murdering? If so, he is a sick freak and a disgusting man, on top of the other prouncements i've made on him. i dont go harming innocent people.

[glower125]

@DanGRtheMan can you please site the study that states that homosexuals where born with female brains in male brains and the vice versa for lesbians. thanks you.

ok will be waiting!

[DanGRtheMan]

@glower125 alright, as for this, ill give you some articles. there are many articles which cite the study.

it wont let me type in urls, dammit.

just type in 'lesbians male brains' into google, or 'gays female brains' into google.

Or go to 'studies of brain structure' under 'Biology and sexual orientation' in wikipedia

(ive changed the dots in the urls' to commas and slashes to dashes so i can post them)

[glower125]

@DanGRtheMan ok. I'll do that I am i'll respond when i have time..thanks

[glower125]

@DanGRtheMan sorry I just read the article published by the swedish neurological institute and it doesn't state that the difference is significant neither it states that it has any genetic basis. meaning that there maybe an increase in testosterone influence in the womb. yet they don't know if the difference was actually acquired in later years during development which make them environmental rather than genetically based. beside they looked at the amygdala which is less than 2% of the brain.

[DanGRtheMan]

@glower125 so after 20 mins of reading a scientific article, you have declared it null and void?? the research says it focused on the Amygdala in PARTICULAR, but it also says Researchers found 'resemblances in the brain's PHYSICAL STRUCTURE and SIZE as well as the STRENGTH OF THE NEURAL CONNECTIONS among gay people and straight people of the opposite sex.' so it wasn't just about the amygdala. are you seriously an expert on male and female brain differences that you've read all articles on this?

[glower125]

@DanGRtheMan as a matter of fact I am. I am a physician. the amygdala is extremely small and it has many functions yet it is only about 2-3% of the human brain. one of it function is relying information from different parts of the brain and it can be inhibitory or excitatory. the fact they functional MRI showed a slight difference in the reading can be attributed to many external effects. I have read enough scientific papers to know an erroneous study that presupposes a conclusion before

[DanGRtheMan]

@glower125 they tested 90 individuals, and according to you in every or most tests the MRI was wrong. please give me proof of the rebuttal by the medical community at large, so i can determine whether or not this is your opinion as it usually is with you. i cant believe you took 20 mins to dismiss the long study that these scientists did as inaccurate and not accepted by the wider community, you had no idea this study or studies of this kind existed this morning when you asked me.

[glower125]

@DanGRtheMan (cont) before it set out to prove it. the research is out there for anyone to look at it and draw their conclusion. the fact that this study did not have a wide acceptance in the medical and neurophysical community is because the study has no merits.

[DanGRtheMan]

@glower125 you ignored the statement about gay men and women having symmetrical brains and lesbian/straight males having 2% bigger right sided brains, nothing to do with the amygdala. and suddenly you know that this study doen't have wide acceptance in the medical community, where's your proof that its not accepted, i showed it to you a few hours ago. you say the best poetry is arabic, the best men are arabic, thats subjective not objective. thats your opinion, doesn't make it fact.

[glower125]

@DanGRtheMan (cont) what they have used is functional MRI. as you know functional MRI can be misleading and it has been disputed in many studies. functional MRI only show activity or lack of it during a task or emotional experience.

in my opinion the study's premise is in error because it presupposes a difference and it sets to find it rather than using the double random study which is more accepted in scientific inquiry.

thanks

[DanGRtheMan]

@glower125 who said MRI scans were inaccurate? Ill quote you a few things from the experiment. 'Savic and Per Linstrom took MRI brain scans of 90 volunteers who were divided into four groups of similar ages according to whether they were male, female, heterosexual or homosexual. The scans showed the right side of the brain in heterosexual men was typically 2% larger than the left. Lesbians showed a similar asymettery, with the right hand side of the brain larger than the left'.

[DanGRtheMan]

@glower125 (cont) 'scans on homosexual men and heterosexual women revealed both sides of the brain were the same size.' so the scientists have taken MRI scans of 90 volunteers, and, may I note, MRI doesn't have to be extremely accurate to differ between brain sizes on average, its not going to scan a brain and come up with something completely different. The scientists found that the RIGHT SIDE OF THE BRAIN in hetrosexual men was typically 2% larger than the left, the same for Lesbians.

[DanGRtheMan]

@glower125 and scans on homosexual men and heterosexual women's brains showed they were the SAME SIZE. this has nothing to do with the AMYGDALA. you say this presupposes a difference - what?! its the most simplest study ever, from volunteers, scientists have found gay men and straight women have symmetrical brains, whilst straight men and lesbians have the right side 2% larger. this is too basically simple to allow presupposed differences to affect these results, come on, do you think im stupid?

[RegressusAdInfinitum]

@DanGRtheMan You're confusing the concept of 'fitrah' for the scientific definition of 'natural'. Had you known the difference, you would not have provided irrelevant information which aims to prove that gays have brains hardwired like female's. You should read Hamza's article on his blog which elaborates upon this. Further, you miss the point on objective morality. Hamza is saying that without objective moral values there is no basis for saying someone is a "sick freak" and a "disgusting man"

[RegressusAdInfinitum]

@RegressusAdInfinitum for exhibiting behaviour which conflicts with your subjective values. Also, you raise a number of allegations against Hamza. Please substantiate your claims, such as: he uses dirty tactics (getting his opponents to insult him, and making them appear to be bad) etc. Further, demonstrate that he is not debate primarily on the basis of rational arguments in defense of what he sees to be the truth.

[DanGRtheMan]

@RegressusAdInfinitum anyway, its interesting how you elaborate on the scientific study by the stockholm brain institute which shows lesbians have a right hemisphere 2% larger than the left, the same as straight men, whilst gays have a symmetrical brain like females. you bring 'fitrah' into it, which is a belief all children are born to do Gods will. you are referring to a supernatural being who no one has seen or can prove exists to make a scientific study irrelavent.

[RegressusAdInfinitum]

@DanGRtheMan I didn't elaborate on the study. I just referenced it, because you mentioned it. I was really pointing out that your understanding of the term "natural" in the Islamic context, is wrong. Why? Because natural with regards to homosexuality refers to "fitrah", and no - your definition of fitrah is also incorrect. Fitrah means the pure state humans are born into, which predisposes us to the truth ("seeing" it, and perceiving it).

[RegressusAdInfinitum]

@RegressusAdInfinitum Further, you critique the existence of "God" based on mindless empiricism. For this reason, I highly doubt you've been paying attention to Hamza's arguments, because the first thing he does is this: establishing that empiricism does not have a monopoly on Truth. You ignore rationalism, and the balance that needs to be struck between empiricism and rationalism. The opening example he gives in the Ed. Buckner Debate expresses this (man in red underpants shows up at night).

[DanGRtheMan]

@RegressusAdInfinitum yes, it is subjective how i criticise Hamza for his debating technique. but thats my opinion, i feel he sours the debates by behaving like that and i feel he knows exactly what he is doing when he

uses tactics like trying to goad his opponent and play the victim. you say i critique God sing mindless empiricism, but rationally, is it really sensical to believe in a God who follows the every thought and movement of every one of 7 billion people, not including alien life?

[DanGRtheMan]

this man has arab facial features - he looks like a british pakistani and has a british asian accent. any arab will tell you this man looks arab and yet he says he is greek, what a fraud.

[glower125]

@DanGRtheMan actually, he is greek and he stated that several time, beside he reverted to Islam about 8 years ago. you actually sound very ignorant and uneducated.

[DanGRtheMan]

@glower125 you say he STATED that he was greek, but where is his proof? he looks 100% pakistani arab and has an british asian accent, i've discussed this loads of times. one girl told me she knows his grandfather is greek 100%, OK, i've taken her word for it but i will repeat, the mans accent and features do not match claims of being 100% greek. you may believe every word he syas, thats your problem. If i see his prants surnames as Tzortis on his birth certificate, i'll believe him.

[glower125]

@DanGRtheMan ask yourself this, why would someone lie about his heritage, what's the benefit. to me he looks greek, I am half jewish and half arabic, and I can see he is clearly not arabic at all. he has a beard because he follows his religion. are you saying that everyone who has a beard is Arabic? read his biography. he was 10 years old when he moved to england with his greek father and greek mother. and if he is Arabic, what is your problem with that anyway? I think Arabs are the best.

[DanGRtheMan]

@glower125 so you think arabs are the best? thats predjudiced, we are all human beings. hitler thought blond haired blue eyed aryans were the best, what did that lead to but genocide and murder? it is wrong to think one race is supreme, you think you are so intelligent but you should realise predjudice is wrong. no scientific study has show arabs are superior to anyone else in anything, anyway in every race and country you get some clever people, some dumb people, and some retards.

[glower125]

@DanGRtheMan you have just proved my point. it was you who dwelt on Mr. Hamza's ethnicity. i think i should go with what he said and leave it at that. BTW, do you know in polite circles, it is low class to question someone's ethnicity at all especially when they state it.

and yes although I am half jew and half arab, i usually identity myself as full arabic. I love my heritage, for once the Quran is arabic, the best poetry ever is arabic, arab men are hairy, virile, hung and beautiful:)

[DanGRtheMan]

@glower125 you say it's low class to question somebody's ethnicity, but i've already said saying he's not arabic/muslim helps him in his argument for islam as a book that can convert non believers not raised in the faith. otherwise i would have NO NEED to question his ethnicity. i was only interested in finding out whether he was not a convert to islam and already a muslim, or at least exposed to islam. nearly all arabs are muslim, so thats why i wanted to know if he was arab.

[RegressusAdInfinitum]

@DanGRtheMan No. You make it sound as if you were genuinely curious. Don't give me that BS, and I call it BS because you clearly called him a fraud for claiming to be Greek. Instead, you could have asked: "Can someone confirm if Hamza is really a convert, and is he actually of Greek origin?" Also, your leading points are faulty: truth does not necessitate that it will be beheld by a person. A person's ethnicity is irrelevant here, only their arguments are relevant.

[RegressusAdInfinitum]

@RegressusAdInfinitum Perhaps you apologized for your error, however, I did not bother reading through all of your comments. I'm a former Agnostic Atheist, however, that says nothing of Islam's truth. It would only imply that Islam was the truth if you assumed that as an Atheist I was perfectly rational, and since Islam convinced me, it must be rationally true. Sure, it can demonstrate that perhaps Islam has compelling arguments, however, these need to be presented - that's what's relevant.

[DanGRtheMan]

@RegressusAdInfinitum i called him a fraud cause i was kind of pissed of with the way he was debating, acting as a victim of ed buckner 'cussing' his mother, or peter cave apparently 'insulting' him, to get the crowd's sympathy. and raising his voice all the time above his opponent to sound like he had the more important points. In every debate, he makes it a point to mention he is a convert, by stating his ethnicity or his orthodox background, that's how he makes it relevant.

[RegressusAdInfinitum]

@DanGRtheMan Thanks for your response. I see, so essentially you called him a fraud out of annoyance, and this was due to perceiving him to: 1) play mind games/tricks 2) use other dirty tactics like accusing people falsely 3) raising his voice etc. I have not seen the Peter Cave debate, so I'll have to check that out. The more recent debates I have seen were the Dr. Sohail, Dr. Larvor, and Dr. Buckner ones. In the Dr. Larvor one, the Dr. also accused Hamza a number of times [cont]

[RegressusAdInfinitum]

@RegressusAdInfinitum and (if I remember correctly) admitted to taking offense. Now of course, unlike you I didn't perceive any of this to have taken away from the speaker's credibility. Hamza does play around with his opponents at times, however, the meat of his points are on the basis of rationality. In fact, when you join debate teams you are taught to do just that in order to exhibit charisma. Now of course, this doesn't demonstrate truth, it's just a "special effect".

[RegressusAdInfinitum]

@RegressusAdInfinitum However, Hamza never bases his arguments on these grounds. I've met him personally, and he's just naturaly charismatic. Even Dr. Larvor admitted that he can't keep up with Hamza in terms of charisma when they were joking around. And often, it's just that - creating a bit of comic relief to lighten up a serious atmosphere. These kinds of debates can cause people to get very emotional and angry. So it is important to stress: we're all friends here, let's have a cool debate.

[RegressusAdInfinitum]

@RegressusAdInfinitum Those examples you've given (Buckner "cussing" his mother) were just jokes. I took them as jokes, and everyone I know took them as jokes, which didn't take away from the meat of the debate: rational arguments. Hamza responds to each and every primary point his opponent raises, however, often his opponents dodge his. The Dr. Larvor debate is an example of Hamza addressing every major (and even most minor) points. Larvor reiterated his faulty understanding of infinity.

[RegressusAdInfinitum]

@RegressusAdInfinitum And finally, I must ask: if you were annoyed with Hamza, why didn't you just leave it at that. What relevance does questioning his ethnicity and ideological background have with regards to him apparently frustrating you? Critique his charismatic approach, however, his background is irrelevant in this case. He mentions it, as you said, to show that he wasn't just "raised" in the faith.

[DanGRtheMan]

@RegressusAdInfinitum well, as i said by stating he is a convert to islam, he avoids the debator getting the upper hand on him if they know he was born into the faith. for me and most people, hamza looks pakistani arab and 99% of arabs are muslim. so i found this to be too much of a coincidence, him looking like an arab but claiming to be a greek convert. therefore asking this question was important to knowing about whether he was lieing about this or not.

[RegressusAdInfinitum]

@DanGRtheMan First of all, you're associating an intent with his mentioning of his ideological background. This is YOUR interpretation (and one based on your presuppositions). Secondly, making an outright lie is a sin in Islam. I find it difficult to believe that a man willing to spend this much time demystifying Islam for people such as yourself would go against one of its main tenets. And don't even try bring up "taqiyya", as that has no relevance here.

[DanGRtheMan]

@RegressusAdInfinitum many muslims believe lying is only permitted in 3 cases because of the quote in the Sahih Muslim (3rd most reliable book in sunni islam). the definition of 'battle' (a physical war or a war of words on a public stage') may difer among readers of the Quran and Hadith. Also, lying to bring 'reconcilations among persons' could take the form of bringing reconciliations between people with warring ideologies - this could be an extension of this as its not clearly defined.

[RegressusAdInfinitum]

Again: if you were annoyed with Hamza, why didn't you just leave it at that. What relevance does questioning his ethnicity and ideological background have with regards to him apparently frustrating you? You're bringing up two unrelated things here: him annoying you, and doubting his ethnic background (which he apparently brings up to avoid being conquered in a debate - which is unnecessary). Don't assume that the opponent would get the upper hand had he not mentioned this.

[RegressusAdInfinitum]

@RegressusAdInfinitum A Muslim who never left Islam could have still verified their faith through rationally investigation. All that matters here is the arguments presented: this is the meat of the debate, and interestingly the part you completely ignore. So enough of this pointless debate. You can call Hamza over and ask him to take a genetic test to determine his ethnicity. I trust him, and have no reason not to. How about you address the arguments he presents, one by one?

[DanGRtheMan]

@RegressusAdInfinitum you want me to address his arguments. i started to comment in the first place because i was pissed off with Hamza's tricks and debating strategies. i also believe the youtube comments section is somewhere where opinions, especially extreme ones, can be contested. However, i haven't come on youtube to convert people to atheism, maybe to make them aware of the logic behind atheism so they don't think atheists are crazy or evil.

[DanGRtheMan]

@RegressusAdInfinitum his debating pissed me off so i tried to find faults in what he was saying and his claim to be greek seemed dubious as he is an arab looking muslim. you are trying to label me as racist, i think. i believe there are good and bad people in every race, many different attributes to people in every race. A racist believes all people in a race are the same, however i am not that dumb.

[DanGRtheMan]

@RegressusAdInfinitum you percieve his 'pretending' to get annoyed at the debators questions and playing the victim as natural charisma. but it really seemed to me as if he was trying to win the debate at all costs not just on the basis of his argument alone, but by using these tactics, in fact, evvery debating tactic in the book. i didn't like how he accused ed buckner of insulting his mother, it soured the debate and ed buckner was visibly annoyed by it. nobody uses such tactics against Hamza.

[DanGRtheMan]

@RegressusAdInfinitum and then he 'pretended' to get angry at peter cave, acting as if he insulted him. for me, those tactics are really cheap and nasty. thats what turned me against him and made me think he could be lying, if he is prentending to be insulted. add to that the fact he looks pakistani arab and always claims he is a greek convert, that seemed too much of a coincidence to me, so i just put two and two together.

[DanGRtheMan]

@RegressusAdInfinitum for me, he goads his opponent by pretending to be insulted by them, making them out to be the bully and by raising his voice over them a lot. he generally keeps a pleasant facade though, and uses these tactics to try and make his debator angry, so he can justify the way he 'prentends' to be victimised to the audience. i think its a big stage show for hamza, and he acts for the crowd. he should compare his 'facts' with the his opponents facts, no playacting involved.

[RegressusAdInfinitum]

@DanGRtheMan For you - precisely my point. All I've seen you do is complain about his alledged intent (which you interpret based on your subjective analysis of Hamza's so-called "grand scheme" - to desperately win). But let's be real: the man with the rational arguments doesn't have to be desperate. So address his arguments, one by one. Why do you ignore the meat of his presentation? You point out little things with no overall relevance, and yet ignore the arguments?

[DanGRtheMan]

@RegressusAdInfinitum the study shows lesbians are 'programmed' to think similar to straight men, so they cannot help it. just as if you are straight, you are 'programmed' to fancy women and show disgust at the idea of sleeping with a tough man. lesbians also think similar to this. if god exists, why did he make people with brains programmed to fancy a certain sex and show disguct at sleeping with another sex, and finally, send holy books condemning the creations he programmed as such?

[RegressusAdInfinitum]

@DanGRtheMan I'll address this argument, however, I'm going to have to categorize it first. First of all, this objection does nothing to counter the arguments for God that Hamza presents. Further, I'd like you to link me to that study (I'll need to see the details such as: can continuing to exhibit gay behaviour cause your brain to further resemble the opposite gender (creating new neuron pathways), what kind of structural components underlie their brains, conditioning etc.)

[RegressusAdInfinitum]

@RegressusAdInfinitum @RegressusAdInfinitum So all of that needs to be dealt with first. As for if all of that is true, why did God create such people? I've talked to Muslims who have homosexual urges (that they do not act upon). They explain to me that they see it as a test, which if they overcome, God will provide them with much greater bounties in the afterlife than others who did not have such a difficult test. Further, I suggest you look into the works done by: Gay Muslims dot org

[DanGRtheMan]

@RegressusAdInfinitum i believe we must avoid doing harm onto others, and in order to respect others fully we must respect ourselves first and not take crap from people. the idea of self respect and not harming others is inbuilt and also comes from human interaction. as for Gay muslims, i feel sorry for the women with male brains who hate the idea fo sleeping with tough men, just like straight men do, and who believe they must force themselves to do it. I could never force myself to do this.

[DanGRtheMan]

@RegressusAdInfinitum type in 'lesbians male brains' or 'gay men female brains' into google to link to articles on the study. remember, i'm just replying to the points you made in your comments at the moment.

[DanGRtheMan]

@RegressusAdInfinitum you only truly learn to respect yourself and therefore others when you get to a certain intelligence level, whilst children are always trying to push the boundaries of what they can and cannot do. as a Human population, we are getting more and more intelligent, so we should be learning to respect oursleves and our rights and therefore others rights a lot more.

[iTube1414]

@DanGRtheMan Your arguments are based on emotician and not knowledge. Your arguments are of irrelevance to the video. "his claim to be greek seemed dubious as he is an arab looking Muslim" - I know the guy, and when you said that I lost all respect for you because its crap. To be honest i tried to respond to your arguments but they are of no attack to Islam, there just general points. Whats your arguments to do with anything, what an absoloute waste of time... if you wana debate, contact IERA

[DanGRtheMan]

@iTube1414 my arguments make complete sense to me. 'they don't have to have anything to do with islam' you say, well they don't have to. ok, fine, i have done more research and have discovered that Hamza is most probably greek. but he still uses dirty tactics in debates.

[DanGRtheMan]

@iTube1414 'because my arguments are not against islam, they are a waste of time' lool. i was just replying to some guy who gave me his opinion. and actually, the title of the video is 'design argument for god's existence', nothing to do with islam anyway. my arguments are based on common sense not stupidity. how can Hamza defend the Quran if he doesn't know arabic anyway?

[DanGRtheMan]

@RegressusAdInfinitum you also say objective morality is the key to understandng how to behave. yes, you say 'how can you call someone sick and disgusting if there is not objective standard to compare them to?'. but there are differing standards, you can't call them objective. for example, in europe, standards like 'do not beat a woman', 'do not rape a child', 'do not murder' etc, are generally accepted as the norm. in other countries you have differing standards.

[RegressusAdInfinitum]

@DanGRtheMan Again, you miss the point. You start off by accepting that you cannot call subjective standards objective. Yet, then you go on to mention differing standards and the fact that all have basic standards of morality. So, again - what makes any of those "bad things" objectively wrong? You reference the development of morality, which says nothing of it's objectiveness. In the absence of a conceptual anchor such as God, you're left with evolution and social pressures to explain morality.

[RegressusAdInfinitum]

@RegressusAdInfinitum However, both of these involve constant changes (biological and social). So, neither provides an objective basis. You also mention how surviving is a key goal for which morality serves as a function. This is irrelevant, because if there is no objective morality then what makes survival the objectively true standard? Nothing. You've already accepted this. Then, you're left with: Well we're built to survive...so why not just do that?

[RegressusAdInfinitum]

@RegressusAdInfinitum Clearly, we can go against these instincts by committing suicide. So, we aren't absolutely forced to survive. In fact, as Hamza has said: a nihilist philosopher wrote an essay justifying suicide in the absence of objective purpose and morality. For what objective reason is any of that "bad" (deformed children for ex.) Without God, there are no reasons. By virtue of a materialistic worldview, a deformed child is just another rearrangement of matter (just more inefficient).

[RegressusAdInfinitum]

@RegressusAdInfinitum As for your final post: again, you fail to demonstrate how there can be objective morality without God. All of those examples of animals exhibiting "moral" behaviour is meaningless unless you establish moral objectivity. Otherwise, it's just behaviour and nothing more (unless you invoke human subjectivity which is all you offer with your belief in innate morality). As a Muslim, I believe we have innate morality too, however, this is only objectively true because of God.

[DanGRtheMan]

@RegressusAdInfinitum yes, western non islamic countries do have higher RECORDED levels of crime, but it is still a minority of the population that commits crimes, and the worst crimes are still very rare. in europe, people don't have the threat of losing their hands for stealing. As Hitchens says, if you need the motivation of entering heaven in order to be nice to people, then you are not really being nice to people, you are just doing it for your own gain.

[DanGRtheMan]

@RegressusAdInfinitum type into youtube 'atheist nations are more peaceful'. A recent study measuring peace levels shows the most religious countries are the worst, whilst the most atheist countries like Sweden, are the most peaceful. So is this what God had in mind, that countries in which most people believe in him are the least peaceful? come on. perhaps morality without prescribed objectivity is better, but i do believe there is an innate human standard.

[DanGRtheMan]

@RegressusAdInfinitum the rest burn in the hellfires eternally, what a joke, it seems God is racist since nearly all arabs go to heaven and everyone else doesn't. In terms of morality, i believe there is a human inbuilt standard that we naturally have. I gave up religion but am still the same person, except I don't feel the need to make time for people without feeling i need to. As Hitchens says, if you need religion to not be murdering or raping, then you are a sick human being.

[DanGRtheMan]

@RegressusAdInfinitum a God who never comes down to us to tell us how to live but last sent his message to a human being 1400 years ago in a cave. and you talk about rationalism, i cannot believe it. a God who, as his children, wants us to worship him and praise him, whilst most fathers just want their children to live happy lives. a God who sends 19.6 % of people to heaven, nearly all of whom are born muslim, whilst the rest go to hell, even if they don't know islam and still are nice to people

[DanGRtheMan]

@RegressusAdInfinitum species that have commited incest usually die out, all over nature animals that do not reproduce asexually spread to find partners as less related to them as possible. animals also have inbuilt morailty - recount the story where dolphins saved humans drowning, or the recent story in japan where a dog remained for days to look after an injured fellow canine. do research on undiscovered and how moral they are. yes i believe there is a human moralstandard that comes innately.

[DanGRtheMan]

@RegressusAdInfinitum but all countries and undiscovered tribes have basic standards of morality, like do not murder, rape children, commit incest. why, you ask? because moral standards come from two places - our inbuilt morality and the morality from interactiion with others. we are born with an inbuilt morailty - how do you think the human race has survived for so long without holy books, without killing itself off. incest is a very bad thing naturally, children are usally born deformed.

[DanGRtheMan]

@RegressusAdInfinitum he brings his ethnicity into the debate, to aboid the obvious question 'aren't you a muslim because you were born into the religion, therefore you are only trying to fit islam to the greater world view as islam is all you know'. it seems he is trying to avoid this point his atheist debators often make. again, i questioned him in a harsh way cause i was pissed off with his debating, which isnt solely on the truth of his arguments, he uses dirty tactics and his debators dont.

[DanGRtheMan]

@glower125 how many times i have to say it's whether he was exposed to islam before he was converted, thats the issue for me, because it helps his argument if he wasn't. how many times do I have to say i'm not a racist, beleiev what you want, but stop stating untrue rumours about me, you and your bloody opnions. Arabs are the best, they are the chosen race, the divine race, your the racist one banging on about arabic racial supremacy all the time. do i have to listen to your racism?

[DanGRtheMan]

@glower125 i wanna know where your proof is that this study is not accepted, i.e.; rebuttals from official medical bodies, how did you find all this out in a couple of hours, did you spend the whole time searching for information?

[DanGRtheMan]

@glower125 go to iran, they think that persians are superior to arabs there, everybody has their own point of view, why do i need to listen to yours?

[DanGRtheMan]

@glower125 ive explained this many times, he says he is a greek convert - this helps avoid the obvious question from the atheist 'you are a muslim becuase you were born into a muslim family. otherwise 99.99% sure you wouldn't be one. so to lie and make it sound like he coverted after a miraculous Quran reading helps him. it strengthens his foundation as the person arguing for islam, to claim as if he had no previous knowledge of islam before he converted.

[DanGRtheMan]

@glower125 he may not be arab but he sure as hell looks like one and his accent is british asian, specifically of the muslim communities. so at least he must have befriended other muslims from an early age to get the accent. that makes sense because he looks pakistani, and might have been rejected by others because of this due to racism, so he found solace with similar looking muslim asians. this means he is not being open about him being aware of islam before he converted.

[DanGRtheMan]

@glower125 you have to be a troll, you dont seriously believe yourself, your just trying to take the piss out of me and get me to reply to your silly, baseless comments. your just trying to use clever language to make me look dumb and you look clever, when you have no proof. im tired of this.

[glower125]

@DanGRtheMan LOL, who cares what you think anyway, are you the king to see someones birth certificate? no one really cares what you think. and btw, if he is Arabic, will that make what he says less important? do you hate Arabs? Do you want him to be Arabic? please explain your logic. you really sound deranged.

[DanGRtheMan]

@glower125 no im not the king, i dont have any right to see his birth certificate, but at least i ask for proof. and who said i hate arabs, i'm not prejudiced against any race.

[DanGRtheMan]

@glower125 ignorant and uneducated just because i do not believe what another human says????? i dont beleiev what hitler says, that doesnt make me ignorant and uneducated. you sound really gullible - if he told you he could bench press 130kg you would believe him probably. it doesn't make you ignorant and uneducated to not believe what somebody says, if they do not offer proof for it!!! what are you on about? you sound less educated if you don't need proof for things.

[DanGRtheMan]

When Tzortis debates, he uses dirty tactics like trying to get his opponent to insult him and making his opponent out to be a bad person, performing for the crowd, raising his voice above his opponents and feigning mock hurt, claiming that he is being insulted. He does not debate purely on the comparison of truths between the ideas he is trying to propogate and his opponent is.

[monsta123x]

yawn..god of the gaps...

- Ancient Greek theist : Oh look at the lightening? how did it occur? oh yea Zeus

- Modern theist : Oh look at the complexity of the physical universe ? how did it occur? Oh yea Yahweh / Allah

-Distant Future theist: Oh look at the world ensemble(multi verse) and its complexity ? how did it occur ? Oh yea Lord Chuck Norris

.Never gets old

[coppens]

This morning intricate patterns of frost appeared on my window pane. Who designed those?

[franzxxxx]

scientific mamboo jumboo??!!!! how about your boring religious mumboo jumboo..

[muslim610]

Brother Hamza Tzortzis is an excellent speaker,thanks 4 da upload.

[AimiriZ]

Quite amusing, This video was refuted before it was even posted, look at the related videos.

Also, appealing to University professors who are theists is so F***ing ridiculous, it is well knowns that most university professors are non theists.

[jabri11]

What scientists beleiv regarding God is their own business, I dont have to be a jew to refer to scientific fact a Jewish scientist made.. plus, a fact is a fact u can take even from a mad man if it makes sense & can be proven. However, the claim that "There is No God" is simply impossible, & cannot be stated by scientist unless they are being unscientific but only expressing personal views.

[AimiriZ]

@jabri11

1. The person in the video seems to be appealing to scientists in order to give his arguments some sort of validation,not me. I simply stated the absurdity of this ( and you agreed).

2. Proving there is no God is simply impossible, but then again, proving there are no unicorns and hobbits is impossible as well. Theists use this logical fallacy that atheists are claiming the they know for a fact that there is no God at a regular basis.

[RegressusAdInfinitum]

@AimiriZ And comparing "God" to unicorns and hobbits indicates to me that you really don't understand the Islamic conception of God. I don't know what your background is, be it Islamic or Christian, you seem to have been influenced by the problems in Christianity. Asking for the same standard of evidence for unicorns and hobbits, in the case for God is flawed. Why? The former are physical entities, finite, temporal: within this universe. God: transcendental, immaterial, beyond this universe.

[RegressusAdInfinitum]

@RegressusAdInfinitum by background I mean: the type of society you grow up in, and religion you were primarily influenced by (irrespective of if you accepted it).

[muslim610]

@AimiriZ Why don't you challenge the brother to a debate to prove him wrong? I would be interested in watching that debate, I'd even pay to watch it, so bro, be a man and step up to the arena, if you think you got what it takes to refute this brother with easy.

[muslim610]

@AimiriZ I better correct myself quick, I meant ease.

[RegressusAdInfinitum]

@AimiriZ Can you provide some evidence to demonstrate this? Some credible poll or statistic (even though generally statistics can be pulled out of thin air, and actually have less credibility then believed).