Re: Judaism Question

[72Yonatan]

Since there is not now a temple, and since sacrifices may ONLY be brought in the temple, then the command to sacrifice in the temple cannot be performed. But the sacrifices continued during the reconstruction of the temple, on the altar. So only the altar in its correct place is sufficient for bring the sacrifices. But as you say, there are political problems, and the government of Israel does not want a third temple. So there is separation between religion and state, but not to the extent as US

[extazy17]

I dont think that you are really athiest, its just that you dont want to KNOW becuase of your desires. Just search Not believing in G-d is irrational. Proving G-d is not very hard, watch the video

"torah and science by Rabbi Mizrachi" google it, very logical and straight to the point, if you disagree then address the proofs directly.

[999YORK]

Is it not true that most Israel Archaeoligists admit they could find no proof that the Jew heroes of the Old Testament ever existed? It seems like many Christians have been duped.

[azmike007]

@999YORK

That is wrong. There is a plethora of evidence. Extazy17 hit the nail on the head. We don't want to seek God, because when we realize He exists..we know we must change. And we are just too selfish for that. So we become our own gods, and that...never works out. Here's a quote for ya, "Seek to believe so that you may understand, not understand so that you may believe."

[GodForum]

mooeypoo According to your research what was the first thing that God created ?

[mooeypoo]

You mean the Judeo God? Not much "research" needed, just open the bible in the first page. I believe it says the first thing is light.

[GodForum]

mooeypoo - Does it really say that light was the first thing created ? What does the first verse say about this ?

[mooeypoo]

Right, I re-read. You're right, genesis says god created the heaven and the earth first. Without light.. light came after.

You have a point to this question? Where does your logic lead? I may remind you, I don't really take the bible as the account of how creation of anything was done..

[GodForum]

GodForum - Incorrect on all accounts ... that was the point to my question.

[mooeypoo]

Even if a mistake was made as to the supposed creation by a supposed god in the bible.. how does that make *ALL* accounts wrong?

[GodForum]

mooeypoo - Read the first 16 Hebrew letters of the Torah for your answer.

[mooeypoo]

Stop going in circles. I am an agnostic atheist, I don't take the bible literally. I'm not really interested in wishywashy "lessons"; speak your mind, quote your quote. What is it you want to say, GodForum, and how does that make "all" accounts wrong?

[GodForum]

mooeypoo - It makes it wrong because God needed to create something else FIRST before the heavens and the Earth or the light.

[mooeypoo]

A lot of things make things wrong - for example, the idea that plants were created before the sun. Or one account saying man and women were created together, and the other (next chapter) saying they were created one after the other, separately.... that's why I don't take the bible literally.

People wrote it, and people are not perfect.

[GodForum]

mooeypoo - yes man wrote it and people misread it ... for example few people could answer what was the first thing created.

[yomamasofat87]

@mooeypoo yes but don't you see that the crime rate over there is almost 0%? compared to the US where religion and state are seperated? think about it, israel doesn't even have a death penalty! so in a way Judaism is better then alot of religions you can't be jewish if your not a rational thinker. i have high respects for Buddhism as well.

[azmike007]

@GodForum

Your an atheist AND agnostic and your screen name is GodForum?

Mooeypoo, "A fool says in his heart there is no God." Psalm 14:1

"A bigger fool says it with their mouth." Me

[azmike007]

@mooeypoo

Why dont you take it literally? Here's one..."There is a way that seems right to a man, but in the end it leads to death." Proverbs 14:12

"I would rather live like there is a God, die and find-out there isn't...then to live like there isn't, die and find-out there is." You gotta love free will!

[briznaleve]

Sorry, my english is not good at all. But I want to tell you that I agree with you and with your brilliant arguments. The world needs people like you. Thanks for sharing, and for thinking the way you do.

[Israeltekhelet]

You pretty smart. Why are you an atheist?

[Bigjuicybuck]

seems to me that animal sacrifice and blood rituals are pagan in origin. so what's with all these jews acting holier than thou and claiming all these rediculous phoney birthrights (which obviously aren't theirs to claim) anyways?

where are the jews from? they are from judah thats why they are called judeans. you know like people from america are called americans.

just because one claims to be a "jew" doesn't make them a judean nor does it make them a member of one of the tribes of israel.

[cru8ade]

I find it interesting and fascinating that "History books" and the Torah have exact accounts of the history. Such as: all the civilizations which conqured and ruled Canaan. Names of Kings and Rulers of these CIviliations.

[Salamlcolholam]

in some cases you need a historic back round but that's not the purpose of the torah

[EDWARDOS20]

As a Christian I can say that it is not wrong amongst us to question God. David himself poured out his complaints before him. Its in the fashion that we all question him that makes the difference. I just wanted to correct that.

[mikedonn71]

I wasn't trying to insult you only to spark a debate.

[mooeypoo]

I didn't take it as an insult at all. I just didn't quite understand where you're leading your point :) Even *if* Marx was jewish, it doesn't play on his claims (logical fallacy, I believe it's "Argument from Authority"? not sure..).

[mikedonn71]

Agnostic-athiest? Formerly a Jew? Sounds like Karl Marx. Marxism indirectly led to Stalin's pogroms against the Soviet Jews.

[mooeypoo]

How the HECK did you derive Marxism from Agnostic Atheism and Jew???

I do believe you should re-read history and Marx's writings, bub.

[mikedonn71]

I'm just shooting in the dark, but what I theorized isn't unreasonable. I read history professionally like you do. I'm trying to figure out your biases, which all of us have to a certain degree.

[mikedonn71]

Wasn't Marx's born into a Jewish family too? The Communist Manifesto clearly states Marx's views on religion - "the opiate of the masses." I should stop trying to feel you out, I guess.

[mooeypoo]

He hated the Jews.. there's an entire essay written by him about the "Jewish Problem".

In any case, he was no Agnostic, no Atheist and no Jew (even if he was born into a Jewish family). Besides, even if he WAS, it means nothing. For that matter, the inquisition was Christian -- that doesn't mean all Christians are evil.

[mikedonn71]

I agree. The whole idea of Jews being a seperate race came from 15th Century Catholicism especially Torquemada. This in turn influenced Nietzche, Marx and ultimately Hitler, Stalin and more recently Bin Laden.

[mooeypoo]

btw, not sure about that. I think the Jews themselves separated themselves for a long long time before they were "claimed" to be a separate race; they didn't claim they're separate race, that's true, but they did claim they're separate religion (and they were -- and sometimes till are, admittedly, the religious specifically) quite snobbish about it.

[mooeypoo]

That didn't play well with everyone else. Not that it's any reason for what followed, but my point is that I'm not sure it's the Christian church that lead to the separation at all, they just lead to other things relating to Jews.

[matthew871]

What's Karl Marx's mother Jewish? If so then he was Jewish.

[matthew871]

I mean, "wasn't his mother jewish"

[Scottyblack]

If his mother was a Jew; he was a Jew.

[dechha1981]

I didn't know Judism promoted skepticism! Cool.

[mooeypoo]

Well, the religion part of it is STILL a religion, so even the skepticism is not as skeptical as a true skeptic, but some aspects of it seem really interesting skeptically, indeed. Unlike Christianity, for instance, Judaism taught its own members how to read for themselves since childhood, while Christianity counted on people's illiteracy to forward pastors control for ages.

[samlyonfr]

So if you are agnostic you might be jew as well (I assume you have a jewich mother...), since you are questioning and wondering.

I like your comments in general. I am interested in the matter of religions. best regards!

[slick901]

@mooeypoo, i got 2 questions which i hope you can answer.

1- in torah, does say that god has banished the jews from the land of israel?

2- i heard from a former a Jew, that jewish prayer

is a like business transaction between god and you, is it true?

sorry if my questions are kind of stupid. hope you can answer.

[extazy17]

1- yes, but also that he will return them back to their land.

2- I dont think so. Prayers include praises of G-d, and also requests. anyway no offense to moo, but why would you ask a non believing Jew(ess)about Jewish beliefs? ask wvulcanmat613, he knows a lot of stuff. (I can also answer many of your question G-d willing). anyway moo - you still dont have time to respond to Rabbi Mizrahis video?- just a reminder.

[slick901]

U say a non-believing jew?

isnt that technicaly wrong?

since if u do not believe yur simply not a jew, am i wrong?

[extazy17]

good point, but one thing is that a Jew isnt only someone who belives in Judaism (a religion), but Jews are also a people who for the majority share a common heritage and ancestry.(but their is also people who converted and became part of the nation).

[mooeypoo]

Well, Judaism is more than a religion (by 'inner' definition - hence, jews themselves AND other people define it as more than a religion). I define myself as Jewish because of my heritage and custom. I don't find it bad, or conflicting, I just don't believe in God, or the Bible, or Torah.

[slick901]

what makes a hebrew then?

[mooeypoo]

Hebrew is the language.

[slick901]

So if jews go beyond religion & faith.

what happens when a jew leaves the faith then raises children and his children have strongly dislike jews, are they anti-semitic?

[nevetsP]

Yes, Jews can be anti-Semitic (anti-Jewish).

[nevetsP]

Nice answer. :)

[extazy17]

Also if you dont mind- (if im wronge please correct me), but a glimpsed threw a video you had on gay issues so Im guessing that you are gay. Please be honest- did you leave Judaism becuase it is against Homosexuality?

[mooeypoo]

Who said I'm gay? Because I made a gay-rights video that makes me gay? Not that it's any of your business what and who I am, but no, I was born atheist - as were you - and simply put, my friend, I was yet to be convinced that God (or any other deity(ies) out there) exist(s).

My sexual preferences have nothing to do with anything.

And I did not "leave" Judaism. I never belonged to the religion, therefore I never left. I consider myself jewish by custom and heritage.

[extazy17]

mooeypoo, It saddens me that you are Jewish and arent Religious. Please see the video below, and learn why you should not only belive but know the facts of the Torah being true. I'm also a Baal Tishuva, and its never too late.

go to

divineinformation dot com. (replace the "dot" with .

[mooeypoo]

"Saddens you"? Well.. you're not the only one. Christians are "saddenned" by this too. So are muslims. And.. well.. the rest of the world's religions.

However, unlike other religions, I actually know Judaism pretty well. Which is why I'm *not* religious.

[extazy17]

Honestly how do you know Judaism "pretty well" and not know that you as a Jewish person has to follow it? Maybe you didnt learn why to belive in the Torah, but only how to. Im telling you if you visit that site, and hear Rabbi Mizrahi's lectures you will have no doubts.

Anyway did you study Orthodox Judaism or the other soo called judaism?

-

[mooeypoo]

I know judaism pretty well, that doesn't mean I believe in a contradictory account to be the proof of an omniscient, omnipresent, self-contradictory deity.

The fact I know how to READ the Tora does not mean I automatically need to believe. It means I know *why* I don't believe.

[mooeypoo]

And I've heard many -- MANYMANYMANYMANY too many to count, in fact -- lectures of many different rabbis (Mizrahi included, though he's my least favourite, i must say.. there are others that use far more interesting methods), and they're all refuted VERY easily with only the slightest knowledge of what rational thinking and logical fallacies are.

Care to test me?

[extazy17]

I dont know about the other Rabbanim you heard, but I can say that I have listed to many of Rav Mizrah's lectures and I am a Baal Tishuva (not perfect but G-d will help). please prove to me why what Rav Mizrahi says isnt true. For example the Video Divine Information what do you see in it that isnt true?

[mooeypoo]

I don't remember the specifics of what *he* specifically said, as I mentioned, I heard quite a whole lot of them. If you want, you can paste an argument (ONE! AT A TIME! ugly strategy it is, trying to switch arguments every 2 seconds, and I will not fall to it, i warn here) and I will respond specifically.

[extazy17]

please tell me what on the Video of Divine Information isnt true and accurate? I will give you the advantage on picking whichever proff you like.

- (if not how do you explain the fact that 600,000 men +their families (Israelites) recieved the Torah from Sinai and passed down the tradition till today?

[mooeypoo]

With all due respect, I don't have time to watch that video and refute it all. If you care to wait, I'll try to do that when I'm done with my summer semester. Now about your example, here's my question: Where, other than the Tora, does it prove that 600,000 people and their families received the torah from God? IF you say the tora, then your logic is circular. It's like me saying "I know pink elephants exist because the pink elephants told me". Circular is invalid.

More proof?

[extazy17]

kay I'll wait. Please dont forget. If you want to watch only a part at a time, I also have no problem.For example just one or 2 proofs, and you trying to refute it. - about your question- Tradition. My grandparents told me, they got it from their parents, and on and on.

[mooeypoo]

yeah, well, I will watch at some point, and I will respond, but if you are going to ignore when I post a refutation, then you (much like the movie, I suspect) are not going to worth my while either.

Do try to listen.

[YoJewMama]

I want to start by saying that in you I see such sweetness. You keep searching in earnest for truth and you'll find it (or it will find you!). My response for your question is that "2 Jews in a room=3opinions! When else have you EVER seen Jews agree on anything (not modern Jews, we're too far away)? It was passed down for so many generations from those who were there! <3

[tzambz]

if ya'll have the opportunity, I suggest to read the book "I don't have faith enough to be an atheist" by Norman Geisler. It's not about the temple or sacrifices, but the "rational commentary" she said.

[theinquisitor]

The doubt involved in Judaism suprised me. Why doesn't the it cause the religion to self destruct? I would expect doubt to be corrosive to religious beliefs, especially in light of modern knowledge. Doubt would surely lead to science which would lead to contradictions of religion, so how does the religion survive with this practice?

[dovidmordachai]

On the contrary, doubt helps to elaborate upon the beliefs and clarify them. You dont know what you really believe untill you question everything.

Aside from that, we have lasted for nearly 3500 years, so we must be doing something right.

[theinquisitor]

Not necessarily. You might just be doing something that survives well. Why doesn't doubting the existence of god leave you with no evidence to ponder and therefore no reason to believe in god? Since it's irrational to suppose the existence of something without evidence. Ink on paper is just evidence that people wrote things down.

[killlagger468]

how does this really happen. well i can hypothesis that this is because of what people have grew up in and are "kicked out" of what they are usually used to. for example, the Amish have a period of leaving the Amish cultural and then choosing to come back. which of course coming back is usually the case with some exceptions. its as if you left everything you know and lived in, and went to Africa for a period of time, to which i assume you would choose leaving Africa when time is up.

[matthew871]

One of the problems with saying that God "exists" is that it implies he is something physical, because all things that exist are physical-- they have a material substance of some kind, no matter how small or thin or porous.

[Mirthfullmind]

The talmud does that as well. Regarding the Kabbalah, you seem somewhat informed... please direct me the places that you were talking about. Are you talking about the Zohar?

[toastm4n]

very interesting.

[chadagg]

Thanks for this response! I had already learned from several people that stuff about the temple...didn't know about it being a sin to sacrifice outside the temple - interesting. I understand your admiration of the learning aspect of Judaism; someone recently asked me what I thought of Judaism and I basically recognized how they seem to be the most intellectually open people - definitely something to respect :)

[mooeypoo]

Glad to know I helped. I must say that one of the things that frustrate me with most Christians I've met is that they quote mistranslated verses and go by the "Literal" bible.

How can someone claim to follow the bible literally if he doesn't know what the literal is?? Even some of the ten commandments are mistranslated, which I find hilarious. Maybe I'll put up a video about it at some point.