I'm running Fedora 15 with systemd and it's simply wonderful. It's much more comfortable to use and powerful than upstart. I like systemd is Linux specific, so bsd and slowlaris won't benefit from it. :)
@Pawlerson Why are you so hostile to bsd / solaris ? I use Linux myself but if everything became Linux specific you would end up with the same situation as as Windows. A lot of things only meant for one system instead of making it portable and thus giving people a more varied choice.
No, it won't become the same like Windows. Linux is Open Source and there are many Linux distributions, so there won't be any vendor trap. Bsd and solaris are simply Linux competitors and nothing more - they were very aggressively fighting Linux in the past and now, when they became really niche they should be ignored. Linux ecosystem should just focus on Linux. Solaris is closed source and Bsd are using MS and Apple friendly licenses, so they should be avoided.
@Pawlerson I don't care about theses kind of debate when we came to systemd because *BSD and Solaris already have a different init system than Linux.
It's shell based, but it's not compatible with SystemV init like we can see it in Linux. In fact some linux distributions are using different sets of init scripts that are not compatible with each other ...
But I don't know why you are saying that not making it portable is good. No it's not good, it not bad either, but certainly not good !
@Pawlerson Not at all, because BSD is Open source and having competitors with diverging idea is good to make a better OS (learning from everyones errors).
Some very good technologies are just because they were first on *BSD or Solaris. Like ZFS leading to the creation of BtrFS! And so on !
Yes, competition is good, but supporting your competitors is bad and stupid. :) Are these technologies portable and available on Linux? I don't think so. Linux devs had to made them themselves.
@Pawlerson Why are you thinking that like a competition. It's not a competition at all, it's doing thing differently and taking note on why something is better there and why we should do the same or not !
It's like saying a Lion and a Panther are in competition with each other to know who is the best predator ... In fact they just want to eat. Not eating them on another.
The problem is they're doing nothing better at all. They're legacy OSes. When there's just bunch of antelopes why should we share those with our competitors? L(inux)ion is the king and the king rulez. :)
@Pawlerson You seem to neither have ears of freeBSD's jails, Solaris' ZFS, OpenBSD's Packet Filter it seems ^^
Theses technologies are really not Legacy. In fact we are still as Linux users missing theses features.
And if theses features means nothing to you, and it's just the Kernel port of it you are criticizing, FreeBSD has a really good kernel, In fact it compares very well with Linux and is really similar. So if Unix like kernels are legacy, Linux is as well. We should move to Haiku-OS ^^
I heard about this, but... ZFS runs on Linux :P and btrfs is coming, we don't need OpenBSD packet filters, because we have better solutions and about jails... it seems it looses badly compared to Linux: Linux-VServer, LXC, OpenVZ :)
@Pawlerson Jails is better than all that because it's not virtualization at all, so no performance cost.
Same thing for ZFS who is only supported on Linux via FUSE and fuse has very bad performances compared to a proper Kernel driver. And, no Packet Filter is just way way better than everything we have on linux.
It's not linux that make things so great, that's everything around it. It's the same on *BSD or everything else. The kernel is just a Kernel, in fact we can change it at will (kfreebsd)
Maybe jail is better in some cases, but when comes to virtualization jail looses badly. However, zfs and jail is nothing compared to Linux advantages, don't you think? :)
It's Linux, GNU and FLOSS overall that made things great. Bsd and solaris existed long before Linux, but they did nothing for FLOSS. kfreebsd is old and ugly kernel that contains 25+ years old code. You can sometimes change Linux kernel for kfreebsd, but you'll loose many superior things.
kfreebsd doesn't even run on mobile, because it's too heavy compared to Linux kernel. It's Linux that supports KMS, G3D and so on. Like I said when you replace Linux for something else you'll loose features and performance.
I'm running Fedora 15 with systemd and it's simply wonderful. It's much more comfortable to use and powerful than upstart. I like systemd is Linux specific, so bsd and slowlaris won't benefit from it. :)
Pawlerson 7 months ago
@Pawlerson Why are you so hostile to bsd / solaris ? I use Linux myself but if everything became Linux specific you would end up with the same situation as as Windows. A lot of things only meant for one system instead of making it portable and thus giving people a more varied choice.
Slurfs 6 months ago
@Slurfs
No, it won't become the same like Windows. Linux is Open Source and there are many Linux distributions, so there won't be any vendor trap. Bsd and solaris are simply Linux competitors and nothing more - they were very aggressively fighting Linux in the past and now, when they became really niche they should be ignored. Linux ecosystem should just focus on Linux. Solaris is closed source and Bsd are using MS and Apple friendly licenses, so they should be avoided.
Pawlerson 6 months ago
@Pawlerson I don't care about theses kind of debate when we came to systemd because *BSD and Solaris already have a different init system than Linux.
It's shell based, but it's not compatible with SystemV init like we can see it in Linux. In fact some linux distributions are using different sets of init scripts that are not compatible with each other ...
But I don't know why you are saying that not making it portable is good. No it's not good, it not bad either, but certainly not good !
ElectronikHeart 4 months ago
@ElectronikHeart
I'm saying portability is good when it's about Linux distributions. Helping BSD or Solaris is equal to helping MS or Apple fighting against Linux.
Pawlerson 4 months ago
@Pawlerson Not at all, because BSD is Open source and having competitors with diverging idea is good to make a better OS (learning from everyones errors).
Some very good technologies are just because they were first on *BSD or Solaris. Like ZFS leading to the creation of BtrFS! And so on !
ElectronikHeart 4 months ago
@ElectronikHeart
Yes, competition is good, but supporting your competitors is bad and stupid. :) Are these technologies portable and available on Linux? I don't think so. Linux devs had to made them themselves.
Pawlerson 4 months ago
@Pawlerson Why are you thinking that like a competition. It's not a competition at all, it's doing thing differently and taking note on why something is better there and why we should do the same or not !
It's like saying a Lion and a Panther are in competition with each other to know who is the best predator ... In fact they just want to eat. Not eating them on another.
ElectronikHeart 4 months ago
@ElectronikHeart
The problem is they're doing nothing better at all. They're legacy OSes. When there's just bunch of antelopes why should we share those with our competitors? L(inux)ion is the king and the king rulez. :)
Pawlerson 4 months ago
@Pawlerson You seem to neither have ears of freeBSD's jails, Solaris' ZFS, OpenBSD's Packet Filter it seems ^^
Theses technologies are really not Legacy. In fact we are still as Linux users missing theses features.
And if theses features means nothing to you, and it's just the Kernel port of it you are criticizing, FreeBSD has a really good kernel, In fact it compares very well with Linux and is really similar. So if Unix like kernels are legacy, Linux is as well. We should move to Haiku-OS ^^
ElectronikHeart 4 months ago
@ElectronikHeart
I heard about this, but... ZFS runs on Linux :P and btrfs is coming, we don't need OpenBSD packet filters, because we have better solutions and about jails... it seems it looses badly compared to Linux: Linux-VServer, LXC, OpenVZ :)
Pawlerson 4 months ago
@Pawlerson Jails is better than all that because it's not virtualization at all, so no performance cost.
Same thing for ZFS who is only supported on Linux via FUSE and fuse has very bad performances compared to a proper Kernel driver. And, no Packet Filter is just way way better than everything we have on linux.
It's not linux that make things so great, that's everything around it. It's the same on *BSD or everything else. The kernel is just a Kernel, in fact we can change it at will (kfreebsd)
ElectronikHeart 4 months ago
@ElectronikHeart
Maybe jail is better in some cases, but when comes to virtualization jail looses badly. However, zfs and jail is nothing compared to Linux advantages, don't you think? :)
It's Linux, GNU and FLOSS overall that made things great. Bsd and solaris existed long before Linux, but they did nothing for FLOSS. kfreebsd is old and ugly kernel that contains 25+ years old code. You can sometimes change Linux kernel for kfreebsd, but you'll loose many superior things.
Pawlerson 4 months ago
@ElectronikHeart
kfreebsd doesn't even run on mobile, because it's too heavy compared to Linux kernel. It's Linux that supports KMS, G3D and so on. Like I said when you replace Linux for something else you'll loose features and performance.
Pawlerson 4 months ago
were they paying attention? why were there so many questions about porting? if it already works with sysV, don't worry about it!
vivacarlie 10 months ago