「真的假不了」翻譯比賽結果公佈《蕭愷一 Daily English》(23/3/10)

[iamcrazyxdd]

4:13呢 我覺得佢個名其實係Tar Is A Boy 佢係男仔 咁樣好似正常d

[kfki]

Deception may never become the truth nor does truth may ever become deception.

[kfki]

You may never fake the truth nor can you turn lies into reality.

[vicky200456]

溫的沒考，考的沒溫

[jcyl141104]

True, false cannot;

False, true cannot.

我寫得好嗎﹖

[tony2685]

愚見這些翻譯都不太好。

從原文分析，「真的假不了，假的真不了」最好看的地方不是其意思­，而是其修辭。真假為反義詞，上下兩句，真假偷換，是寬式對比；­不談對比，也有反覆「xx不了」，兩句字數相同，意思相反，其義­含糊，因此，讀來有點色即是空，空即是色的感覺，譯文沒有考慮這­樣的修辭，實在可惜

[CyanLawrence]

雖然得獎那句較簡潔，但個人認為並沒有你說得那樣接近中文原句，­畢竟「真的假不了，假的真不了」並沒有「你」的意思。個人認為 "Verity can never be falsified, nor can falsity ever be verified." 最貼切。

[siusherry]

好似補緊習咁- -

[cubic3]

'truthify' doesn't exist

[ynetdothk]

Nice, Well done!

[adammiriam]

溫的考不了，考的溫不了呢

[418446287]

@adammiriam 正

[hkp800]

I just passed by this video. Thanks Mr. Siu! I learnt a lot from this video. And the sentense was translated very properly! Congrats to the champion!

[musardus]

i think "gay is gay, ass is ass" is the best!

[glevix]

"好的衰不了 衰的好不了" 呢句又點譯

[glevix]

"基的直不了 直的基不了" 呢句又點譯

[lawrencequeena]

真的翻译得不错！基本所有味道都译出来了。

[glevix]

其實有乜話譯得好不好 呢句好長咩好深咩

[ltsam]

What is true can not be false, what is false can not be true.

[asdwsmax]

中文比英文有深度得多

跟本唔會有最好既翻譯手法

[JohnnyTungShingChan]

今晚肉骨查真係用咗(真的假不了)!

[flickrist]

Youtube真係卧虎藏龍,乜野高人中既高人都喺齊度,有時睇­佢地既留言仲學得多野,而Siu Sir亦不時要接受佢地既Challenge,不過Siu Sir係醒目仔,一早預備好"I don't teach,I share"既免死金牌! 要學好英文,Siu Sir呢個channel實在係最佳選擇! 正!!

[siu82english]

@flickrist 老實講，我也不太肯定。讓我研究研究，四圍問問，再給大家一個答­案。

[pyrioni]

PlusleMinun講得好好! 真系a perfect case of 真的(grammar)假不了, 假的(heresy grammar)真不了！

[hincheunglee]

What about this one?

"No facts can be falsified, no fakes can be verified."

[pyrioni]

Yes, I think FACTS is more appropriate here than THE TRUTH, becoz Chen said 真的. 真的adj, 真的what? It is a poetic understood form, for true facts, in English, should be Facts, not The Truth. Same for 假的, 假的what? 假的指控or media frictions, false accusations, so in this case, Lies is not appropriate!

[pyrioni]

If Facts and False accusations are clumsy in English translation, and they don't even match, then why don't we just use the simple? What is true is true; what is false is false!

[hincheunglee]

@pyrioni Yea. That's what I'm thinkin' of !!

[626uituit]

如果論翻譯準確性，那麼不應該把大師口中的真／假加以定義

[kenkenka]

agree!!!!!

[azkabanhp731]

How about 'The truth cannot be made a sham; A sham cannot be made the truth' ?

Please comment.

[flickrist]

You cannot falsify truth, nor verify lies.

按連Siu Sir都被convinced既PlusleMinun既分析,­在這裡要被改為You cannot falsify the truth, nor verify lies. 句子變得唔對稱,

小弟愚見認為用facts化替the truth就perfectly fit,

You cannot falsify facts, nor verify lies.

由於得獎作品太多不完美地方,

所以實在應由他人補上(suggestion only)

[flickrist]

PlusleMinun好似講得幾好喎,

呢段野可以收入grammar書裡面,

而得獎者Sharlzedoo由於錯左grammar,

其得獎資格已被取消,

改由好多人都鍾意既:

"The day will come, when what is true is true, what is false is false, and people see it" 既Tarisaboy補上,恭喜哂!

lol,just kidding!

[luvvf]

congrats Sharlzedoo !

[PlusleMinun]

Thanks so much, Mr. Siu, for the compliments -- and, most importantly,  for this wonderful opportunity to learn and rethink the English language beyond the translation process itself. That's what really matters, at the end of the day. :)

[01prototype]

Thank you for the game, this is really interesting.

[solopolo]

Did Chen say "truth vs lies"? or did he say " fact vs fiction" ?

[PlusleMinun]

"Truth cannot be falsified" appears to be correct because "truth" refers to a set of moral/ethical values one believes in and lives by.

However, relating back to the context in which the original quote was uttered, and more importantly, what Mr. Stephen Chen was thinking at that particular moment, "the truth" seems to be a better fit. Personally, he was referring to "the factual truth that he is innocent" rather than specifying his own perspective of what constitutes "truth" intellectually.

[siu82english]

高見，小弟佩服。

[PlusleMinun]

Thanks Mr. Siu for all the quotes.

Based on how "truth" is used in those quotes, it appears that:

(zero article) "truth" -- "truth" is thought of as a cognitive notion, i.e., a concept of abstractness.

"the truth" -- refers to some objective, potentially observable facts, i.e., instances of something being true.

In other words, both (zero article) "truth" and "the truth" are correct usage -- but have very different meanings.

,

[pyrioni]

不如Siu Sir問下外國人, please, instead of quoting that grammar twisting Shakespeare like my teacher used to say.

[pyrioni]

Falsify the truth and twist the words of the wise. - wiki answers

A falsified truth ~ ok, to falsify truth, hmmm

[siu82english]

@ those concerned with the use of "zero article" with "truth" (part 1 of 3)

1. "Truth is beautiful, without doubt; but so are lies." - Ralph Waldo Emerson

2. "The mind is one, and the best minds, who love truth for its own sake, think much less of property in truth." - Ralph Waldo Emerson

3. "Till truth were freed, and equity restored" - John Milton

4. "Truth may perhaps come to the price of a pearl" - Francis Bacon

5. "Let not mercy and truth forsake thee." - King James Bible

[siu82english]

@ those concerned with the use of "zero article" with "truth" (part 2 of 3)

6. "Truth may seem, but cannot be: Beauty brag, but 'tis not she; Truth and beauty buried be." - William Shakespeare

7. "Truth has no greater enemy than its unwise defenders." -

David Brewster

8. "Truth is more of a stranger than fiction." - Mark Twain

[siu82english]

@ those concerned with the use of "zero article" with "truth" (part 3 of 3)

9. "Fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities. Truth isn't." - Mark Twain

10. "Competence, like truth, beauty and contact lenses, is in the eye of the beholder." - Laurence Peter

11. "The public will believe anything, so long as it is not founded on truth." - Edith Sitwell

12. "Either New York or Soviet Russia was teaching truth and proscribing falsehood..." - Bertrand Russell

[plaplaandtoto]

@siu82english

名人講既野, 可以作為參考, 但不加以解釋, 即等於訴諸權威。

好多金句為左語言顯得較優雅, 會犠牲文法準確度, 但不可隨意.

例如同樣語境下, 為何可以說, "He is telling lies." 但不能"He is telling truth." ? 如果您做會考改巻員, 見到"He is telling truth."會否因為以上的12句金句而唔扣分?

[cainemansion125]

whats wrong with truth cannot contradict truth?

[electrosphere]

@pyrioni

縱使有音樂修為，亦要有品格涵養

更重要的是，勿當煩膠一名

[kentlhy]

for example, "You have to treasure time". I am saying time in general, not a particular time.

This may not be the best example to compare with 'truth', but i am just stating that it is not a must to add 'the' in front of the "abstract uncountable unspecfic noun" you mentioned.

This is just my opinion. it's best to verify with Siu Sir.

[s064503]

但有時我地會用 "in truth" 唔會用 "in the truth" gor bor....

所以我只能講語文真有趣, 學海無涯

同埋明白到「世事無絕對」,

分分鐘1+1 都可以 = 3 (睇你可咩角度睇, 只限數學以外的角度)

the/ 唔用the, 同所謂既「中文正音」有冇相類似既地方?

[kentlhy]

It is not really needed to add 'the' in front of 'truth'. Without writing 'the' in that sentence makes it sound more 'powerful'.

Sometime when we read the sentence and it sounds right and that should be it. It's more about getting the feeling than examining it word by word for grammar.

[pyrioni]

@kentlhy @kentlhy You can't verify an abstract uncountable unspecfic Noun !!! so you must add THE, but you can start a sentence with TRUTH is......

[pyrioni]

用成語You cannot verify a lie. You can only verify the truth仲好啦...大家係度盲人摸象..中國人教英文..

[flickrist]

Siu sir好似好急趕喎,頭先連個info都打錯成You cannot falsify truth, nor falsify lies,

啱啱先改返nor verify lies.

可見Siu sir真係好忙,非常感激你抽時間整youtube分享! 加油! 千奇唔好停!

個人認為這句用facts代替truth會更加對稱

You cannot falsify facts, nor verify lies.

[plaplaandtoto]

宇宙唯一的, 例如sun, moon, earth, etc要用the (有極少例外)

truth, 即係真理, 係宇宙唯一的, 所以一定要the.

我係alevel ue 攞 a 既, 100個得1個, 請相信我 !

[s064503]

@plaplaandtoto

有d terms 例如 moment of truth, truth or dare

係咪都要變做 moment of the truth, the truth or dare ?

[plaplaandtoto]

其實您已經有答案

點解MJ叫 'King of Pop' 而唔係'The king of Pop' 因為呢d係獨立使用既terms, 約定俗成係凌駕任何文法規則。

truth獨立使用時您有冇聽過冇the呢? 您有冇聽人講過Let me know truth?? He's telling you truth??

[pyrioni]

@plaplaandtoto BRAVO!! well said, wins all

[pyrioni]

@plaplaandtoto 我同意你, 叫佢地check下成語啦you cannot verify a lie. You can only verify the truth. 係THE TRUTH, search網啦

[s064503]

比我既話我揀會係少少省略既 "what is true is true, what is false is false" 起碼唔似贏左果個多左個You, 無論用字係中對英/英對中都平衡 加上咁樣都係10字(中)對10字(英) 會唔會 What was true is true, what was false is false仲好呢 (笑) 不過點都好, 個比賽係阿sir 攪, 最終決定權係佢到~ 我地講下就好lo~ 我地唔能夠反客為主!

[pyrioni]

@s064503 What was true is true, what was false is false唔得, becoz was係過去式, 過去的就不再是真的.

[pyrioni]

@s064503 because what is true is true, is 在English grammar means ALWAYS, continues everyday..... was means finished.

[agnes123channel]

我自己最欣賞網友Tarisaboy果句，好有力量

不過勝出者果句勝在夠簡潔同精確

[imaboy0304]

personally think that "Rumours can neither taint the integrity of a fact nor elevate the depravity of a lie."

or "The day will come, when what is true is true, what is false is false, and people see it."

should win instead of "You cannot falsify truth, nor verify lies."

[lllllawrence]

pyrioni

咁洗咁多reply wor

錯左好魚架!!

[imaboy0304]

@lllllawrence haha agree. still i somehow agree with his pt.s xd

[Jeekc]

Mr. Siu, I almost suffocated from holding my breath for so long. :P

pyrioni - 我雖非英文專家, 但"truth"一字前面不一定要加上"the", 而"verify"亦並非只有"核實"一義。

[pyrioni]

You cannot falsify the truth, nor vindicate lies!

[pyrioni]

陳志雲都係想平反姐, 所以係vindicate himself. 所以應該係 You cannot falsify the truth, nor vindicate lies!

[pyrioni]

nor vindicate lies 都好過 nor verify lies

[marisafonseca100]

Siu Sir, good video! i also have some questions to ask you. what's the different between "relation" and "relationship"? and "direct" and "directly"? Should I say please send this letter direct to or directly to Miss Chan? I'm confused.

[pyrioni]

我冇參加你個比賽, 你搞咁多野, 都係想搵靓既高深英文, 拋人書包, 反而自打嘴巴, 不如用返簡單既vice versa啦!

[pyrioni]

仲有Verify = 核實, nor Verify lies = 無法核實謊言. 當然謊言無法核實啦. 但不等於去使謊言變真, 所以好難同上聯對稱, 又不忠於原文, 直頭係扭曲.

[pyrioni]

應該用the truth, grammar 錯都贏

Lies可以單獨成立, 但係truth 一定要THE TRUTH....如果要countable就只可以用Trut hs, then again Truths=真理, 而唔係真話or真事!

[PiusHellobyebye]

加油，繼續整多d好玩ge野

[plaplaandtoto]

truth 唔可以冇 the

[pyrioni]

@plaplaandtoto 咪就係lor...應該用the truth, grammar 錯都贏 ai

[pyrioni]

@plaplaandtoto lies可以單獨成立, 但係truth 一定要THE TRUTH....如果要countable就只可以用Trut­hs, then again Truths=真理, 而唔係真話or真事!

[electrosphere]

good~