Red Shirt Aftermath: Behind Paragon, Wat School and Clouds

[fonzron]

Let's call it like it is. This is a war about the right to vote. People like to confuse the issue, but Thaksin one several land slide victories, yet the King did not allow him to run the government. The elite are already suggesting that only some people should be allowed to vote.

Let people vote, end of story.

[pudgimelon]

@fonzron That's a rather simplistic explanation of events based on only a partial knowledge of what's really going on.

Be very careful of sound-bite-isms. While that might work on Fox News in America, in Thailand it quite often makes you look and sound rather clueless. For example, it is VERY difficult to cast this as a "rich vs. poor" struggle when the "people's champion" is a telecom billionaire. The right to vote? Or do you mean the right to buy elections?

[fonzron]

@pudgimelon

If the elections were bought, then why did the Sondhi government not allow the US and European election commission monitor the last election? They offered to, but Sondhi would not allow them in.

Do you know who the richest person in Thailand is? The King. Don't you think it would be cheaper for him to buy votes than have to go through all this trouble? The truth is the people which support Thaksin are not for sale.

You sound like a West hating liberal.

[pudgimelon]

@fonzron The US gov't doesn't exactly have a spotless election record. The 2000 & 2004 elections being prime examples of that. So would the US gov't accept an offer from Thailand to monitor it's elections? Probably not. Likewise, since Thailand is a fairly well-developed country, they believe they can manage elections on their own. You may disagree with that, but your assumption that "refusal of intl observers = corruption" is a bit condescending & inaccurate

[fonzron]

@pudgimelon

You're so boring. It would be ludicrous for a first world developed country to accept electoral help from a developing country. Has the US had seven elections is a row where one party won an over whelming large victory, yet the military cried that it was all corrupt? Thailand is by admission unable to run its electoral process, so they claim, but when offered help, they deny it. Why? Because all those votes weren't bought. The riches person in the country is the King.

[pudgimelon]

@fonzron What you say makes NO SENSE.  Let's use your logic on an American election so you can see how stupid it sounds: "If it's true that Republican officials in Florida intentionally discounted thousands of votes in order to throw the election to the governor's brother, then Obama must have nefarious intentions if he refuses to allow UN and EU observers to monitor the 2012 elections...."

See how DUMB that sounds?

[fonzron]

@pudgimelon

You're the one who sounds ridiculous. Are you really going to compare the election process in America with Thailand? Please come down to planet reality for 5 minutes.

[pudgimelon]

@fonzron I see you have difficulty grasping the concept of ANALOGY (which is NOT the same as comparison, btw)

No, I was not comparing elections, if that was the case, then Thailand would look A LOT more democratic :-P

A sovereign nation has the right to run elections as it pleases, and the refusal of UN observers does not imply guilt (as you seem to think). Rather, they may just wish to avoid the impression that they are a failed state, which would impact investment and consumer confidence

[ChaiyoPantamit]

I agree putting this as only a rich vs poor conflict is far to simplistic. Even though a large bulk of red-shirts are poor. It's not a pure class war, its more like a battle between two oligarchies or inter-elite conflict. On the one side is the traditional elite, on the other side is the new elite who are popular with the poor.

[pudgimelon]

@ChaiyoPantamit yep, that's a good summary of the situation. I actually feel a bit of sympathy towards the "red-shirted" farmers (not the red-shirt wearing mafias). Those farmers seemed to have hitched themselves to the wrong leadership & now they are stuck with an agenda that doesn't match their own needs. Plus the yellows will never listen to them as long as they listen to Thaksin. What the poor lack is truly grassroots leadership with an invested stake in their rights.

[fonzron]

@pudgimelon

They've already not been listened to because their votes aren't allowed in their own country. We all have a right to vote, which means we all have a voice, however, in Thailand, we no longer have the right to vote.

[pudgimelon]

@fonzron Not an accurate statement at all. Hyperbole doesn't prove your point and it isn't productive, either

[fonzron]

@pudgimelon

What the hell are you talking about?

[pudgimelon]

@fonzron if you don't understand what i'm saying, get a dictionary or go to a dictionary website and look it up.  it is not my job to educate you or improve your English.

Exaggeration, conspiracy theories, inflamatory statements, and wild accusations might make YOU feel better, but venting your bitterness and bile is NOT a productive way to discuss an issue.

There is plenty of blame to pass around and plenty of wrongdoing on BOTH sides. However, pointing fingers doesn't SOLVE anything

[fonzron]

@pudgimelon

No seriously, what are you talking about? An hyperbole is meant to not be taken literally, I think you're the one who needs a dictionary. I literally mean that the people are not allowed to vote. It is fact that Thaksin and Thaksin supporters won more than 7 land slide victories, yet they are not allowed to govern. That is fact. And yes, that means that the people are not allowed to vote. This is not hyperbole, this is literal.

[pudgimelon]

@fonzron Actually, you mean that Thaksin BOUGHT himself some landslide victories and for some strange reason, those weren't allowed to stand. Does that absolve the Yellows from all wrongdoing? No. Of course not. But don't try to pretend like the Red leaders are the victims here.

I don't think either side can lay claim to the moral high ground. Like I said, pointing fingers doesn't SOLVE anything. You seem more concerned with laying blame on everybody-but-reds, rather than on solutions

[fonzron]

@pudgimelon

So again, to travel in circles here, if it's true that Thaksin bought all his votes, then why would Sondhi not allow out side monitors to observe the last election?

[noteloh]

Thanks!

[pudgimelon]

@noteloh You're welcome :-)