ONeof the "tricks" of the "Fair" Tax: backers will claim their models show the economy is "better", gdp up, but it depends on how one defines "better", as having a higher GDP does NOT mean that the increase is going to all citizens. HOW is the GDP increase achieved? By taxing the middleclasses more, in effect making them work MORE to have to have the same life as now, while the income of the wealthy skyrockets at lower taxe rates than they pay now. Yes, the wealthy would have it "better"....
The "savings would increase" argument does not work...
if it were to pass (it won't, thank goodness), many would spend all of their savings BEFORE it was enacted, thus avoiding the price increases(remember, if "everyone keeps their whole paycheck", then end prices rise about 20-27% upon addition of the tax). IF people save more after enacted, the tax rate has to increase (revenue neutral, remember).
This tax is just a bad idea, increasing the middleclasses avg. federal taxes.
The "Fair" Tax is basically class warfare,the wealthy declaring war on the middleclasses by raising their effective tax rates. It would, by Americans for Fair Taxation's own admission, raise the effective tax rate of those making from $15,000 to $150,000 a year while lowering the effective rate of those making $150,000 and up a year. Source:tinyurl 593htl, page 30 on -pay particular attention to table 13, years 7-8 -- would you be "better off" if your income dropped from $25k to less than $10k?
For proof that the "Fair Tax" aka National Sales Tax Inclusive aka NASTI would raise the taxes of those making from about $15k to $150k a year while greatly lowering the taxes of most who make from around $150k up, one only needs to read and understand pages 30 on of one of fairtaxorg's own "research" at tinyurl 593htl. Pay particular attention to table 13-- this is how they claim the middleclass is better off under FT/NASTI, by them FALLING INTO POVERTY LEVEL every few years (see years 7-8).
Another trick the backers of the "Fair" Tax AKA National Sales Tax-Inclusive AKA NASTI are pulling-- it's a backdoor way to do away with Social Security. Notice that there is no way to tell how little or how much one has worked, so any disbursements would be equal-- those who do no work would get the same as those who worked their whole lives. Sneaky backers dodge the issue on their site by alleging that SocSec "operates exactly as it does today".. which is clearly impossible, wages not known.
For proof that the "Fair Tax" aka National Sales Tax Inclusive aka NASTI would raise the taxes of those making from about $15k to $150k a year while greatly lowering the taxes of most who make from around $150k up, one only needs to read and understand pages 30 on of one of fairtaxorg's own "research" at tinyurl 593htl. Pay particular attention to table 13-- this is how they claim the middleclass is better off under FT/NASTI, by them FALLING INTO POVERTY LEVEL every few years (see years 7-8).
BTW, tinyurl's are temporary. If you want to give a straight Url, that would be better. I'd have to take a look at the stuff you are reading in order to give you a good response. In the table I posted, a family of four -- two parents and two kids, with a bit over 29K, in income would have zero tax with the prebate.
On second thought maybe an updated Url. I just tried a full Url and couldn't post.
@Drgn70 The tiny url 593htl still works (last letter is an "L"), and has worked for over a year. YT doesn't allow full URLs AFAIK. Just type "tinyurl" then dotcom then forward slash then 593htl in the browser address line.
@Drgn70 As for a select family of four example- with all monies spent (usual at that income) and allowing 10% being on non-taxed items (used items, charity donations), I get that they are taxed about $700, whereas now they would likely be at a negative tax (receive more than they paid in). With the increase in prices due to tax (both sides admit anywhere from 5-25%), what they can buy is greatly diminished. FTorg/BHI studies admit this.
The "Fair" Tax aka national Sales Tax- Inclusive aka NASTI would on average raise the federal taxes of those making from $15k-$150k a year while lowering the fed taxes of those making over $150k a year. This is not debateable, it is from supporters' own site and "research".
How do they claim the middle classes will still be better off, then? By asserting that if one's income drops from $35k to $10k a year, one is better off. Does any sensible person think that way? tinyurl 593htl, table 13.
@FairTaxisaLie You are absolutely wrong! The Fair Tax completely eliminates ALL Federal Income related tax for those below the poverty line, but PREBATING the entire tax that a family at the poverty line would pay. Moreover, it COMPLETELY ELIMINATES the Social Security and Medicare tax that ALL WORKERS pay, regardless of income. In addition, it provides anyone with the opportunity to AVOID the Fair Tax (National sales Tax) by purchasing USED items (Cars, Homes, etc.)
@JohnWVettel From fairtaxorg:"Households in the lowest income band,with an adj. gross income of less than $10,000 annually, would benefit ... they would receive the prebate that would more than offset any higher cost of purchasing goods. Households in the top income..,with more than $150,000 in annual income, would also gain as they do not have to pay their highest marginal tax rates. Mid-income cat. households would lose because the FairTax would impose a relatively higher tax rate on them.
Another quote from Beacon Hill /SUPPORTERS' data: "If we group taxpayers by income per capita, the bottom five deciles lose under the FairTax." They try their best to fudge this data by claiming "but, under income mobility..." however, the problem with the fudging is that the "mobility" that provides the most benefit in their scenarios is one's income DROPPING into the poor range. As an example, they call dropping from say $30k to $10k an huge INCREASE in "utility" (basically quality of life).
You obviously know nothing about government. I have worked in government for 24 years. You obviously are not literate enough to have read the FairTax. You have a limited vocabulary. Anyone who resorts to the kind of name calling and crap you are shoveling out to people you don't even know. I have just learned who you are and that a good friend of mine is actually related to you and is quite a good person-unlike you. Oh, and I see by your upload you support slavery-That explains a lot.
@SamSlay46 You stupid fuck, I have 32 years in with the government. Check out my pension check, retard.
Second, dumb fuck, I was a big Fairtax supporter till I read the fine print. Do you know that there is a massive hidden tax in Fairtax fine print? Stupid fuck -- your leaders admit there is a massive, truly massive, tax on city and state governments, that they do not EVEN FUCKING MENTION in their books, videos and sppeches.
What is the difference between you buying yourself a loaf of bread and your state buying one for you? Besides the fact that you pay the government to buy the loaf of bread, nothing. You consume it either way, and both you and the state currently pay the embedded cost of income capital gain, corporate income and other taxes.
Exempting government consumption will cause every one will ask the government to give them everything.
Fairtax for 10 years, never mentioned one word about a massive tax on city and state governments. Never in the 3000 speeches - not one word about these massive taxes on city and state government. Never in several thousand videos.
Never a word about this massive tax on city and state governments in the 10,000 pages online. Never one word.
Then they mention, barely, ONE sentence about this massive tax, and say "Oh, we have been honest about this massive tax on city and states " BS
You obviously know nothing about government. I have worked in government for 24 years. You obviously are not literate enough to have read the FairTax. You have a limited vocabulary. Anyone who resorts to the kind of name calling and crap you are shoveling out to people you don't even know. I have just learned who you are and that a good friend of mine is actually related to you and is quite a good person-unlike you. Oh, and I see by your upload you support slavery-That explains a lot.
"Service providers are not exempt from the income tax today, and should not be exempt from the FairTax." It was very easy to find. Do you think a garbage collector from a private company pay while the government garbage collection be tax free? There is more discussion about this on the FairTax site. I'll try to find more on that if you need more on this. If you read more about it, it makes sense.
Want to save Detroit? Tired of the lable "Made in China?" Want to take home your entire paycheck? Want a monthy check from the Federal govt? FAIR TAX is the yes answer to all of the above.
Those folks commenting against the FairTax have obviously never read the entire bill. Furthermore, ethically it is a better plan than working nearly 4-6 months to pay taxes. Read the bill or if you choose maybe we can keep taxing you under the OLD system if you enjoy paying these unfair taxes. Have a great day!
@SamSlay46 you stupid shit, I know the bill, the books, the blogs, I personally know some of the leaders, I was a Fairtax fan long before your stupid ass ever heard of it.
But then I saw the fine print and asked questions about it, you stupid shit. Go google Fairtax fine print.
f you want more FairTax on television and to help spread it to more people, I know that PassFairTax(dot)com is doing a great job on getting signatures and support
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
Fairtax is a hoax, a farce, it's own leaders would poop their pants if it ever even had a hearing under oath.
Oh it sounds gret -- but its bullshit and they know it. 13 years and NO hearings under oath?
A huge tax on GOVERNMENT? A huge tax on EVERY city? A huge tax on every state -- because that's what fairtax is -- massive taxes on GOVERNMENT and people. They hide this because they know it's insane. They have no intention of passing their own bullshit farce
The only people who should oppose this plan are the illegals, welfare recipients who have never worked for anything in their entire lives, drug dealers, hookers and the like. The uneducated, underachievers will swear, name call, threaten and critisize. Just look at the ignorance in the comments that exist on this site already. This threatens everything they've known their entire lives.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
Yes we need to put the highest fucking sales tax on earth --- and apply it to RENT. That's gonna go over real well dumb fucks.
We need to put this extremely high tax -- on all city spending. Fucking AAAA --- no city will object.
We need to put this extremely high tax on the parents of a child with cancer - how dare they spend money trying to save their child!!!! Tax them with the highest tax on earth!
Great plan dumb fucks -- why arent the leaders trying to pass it? ITS GENIUS!!!
Sharon - wrong -- people who care bout logic should hate Fairtax Farce.
Cancer victims -- would have to pay MASSIVE taxes. Nursing home residents - massive taxes. Renters -- very high taxes.
It would fucking DESTROY new house sales dumb ass. Of course the FT leaders know all this - they know their own plan is pure bullshit, they are NOT trying to pass this. They are trying to fool your dumb ass
@FairtaxFraud Massive taxes on what you freaking moron????
List sources.
List the text that says this what will happen.
I can always tell people who are full of crap because they always seem to use people like cancer patients, the elderly, or helpless little chicldren to keep you from arguing with them
What you have to believe is that this group of people spent all this time and money to propose a system, for eveyone to see, so they can screw over people!!!!
@EchoMik . I am in daily email with Fairtax leaders -- they brag about these massive taxes on city and states, telling me how important they are, and telling me these are VERY CLEAR to everyone.
Got that? I've got the emails and posts on their blogs to prove it -- how this massive tax on city and states is great, and everyone knows about it.
Then you dumb fucks tell me, no, there is no massive tax on city and states.
You stupid shit, learn something. Google Fairtax fine print.
We need stupid people in the USA to learn how to think.
The last thing any Fairtax leader wants is their own "plan" to pass. It's goofy, and they know it's goofy.
It's goofy because they pretend to tax the government for most of the money FOR the government. They know they can't really do that -- that's why they hid this shit in their fine print.
This goofy plan shows how gulllible many stupid people are.
I'm confused. don't they already pay taxes to them self through income taxes to their employees? not to mention, embedded taxes in their contracts? So I suppose it would work like that with out the probability of self imposed tax breaks to reduce private sector (you know those guys who give us jobs.) competition. I can live with that.
@12FlyMe -Everyone should know that 12FlyMe, FairTaxFraud and other screen names are the same person that is probably paid by the NWO that absolutely fear the Fair Tax because they know that if they can't control our money they can't finish their plan to dominate us and make us their slaves. Ignore him/her-better yet mock him/her.
@jacknash711 sorry Jack -- Im not paid. I just believed in Fairtax -- then found out it was pure horse shit. I found out their own leaders know it's horse shit, and they are NOT trying to pass it.
Guess what Jack -- I want this horse shit to pass!! I would love to see you tards try to tax cancer victims, cities, states, renters. I would LOVE IT.
But Fairtax LEADERS don't want it to even have a hearing, much less to pass, because THEY know its pure horse shit.
@12FlyMe - Would you mind enlightening us on what about it is "horseshit"? How does our current system NOT tax "cancer victims, cities, states, renters".
@flynnfree you stupid fuck, our system does not make my neighbor with cancer pay 40 times the federal tax I do.
Got that retard? My neighbor (same financial situation as I have) could easily pay 40 times as much federal tax as I would, ONLY because she has cancer.
Do you really fucking think they will make a cancer victim pay 100K in sales tax you stupid shit? What if she onlyl makes 30K you retard.
We need a president who will support a Fair Tax. If the Republican Party wants to succeed they'll back this and make it so every leader they nominate has signed a pledge not to vote for an unbalanced budget.
Fairtax is a farce, -- read their fine print. Besides the massive tax on people -- on rent, on food, on utilities, on everything -- its a massive tax on city and state governments. Your city, your county, your state, will have to pay massive taxes on every dime they spend. That may sound great to you, but
1) they hide this
2) they hide this
3) they hide this
4) city and states would have to raise massive revenue to pay it
@12FlyMe - Would you mind quoting the "fine print" you reference? We pay massive taxes on everything already. Most taxes are hidden in the costs of goods and services. Most of these hidden taxes will be eliminated with passage of The Fairtax bringing the costs down and people can always buy used items. Recycling would go up! Environmentalists should love it! You hate our planet. Don't you?
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
Fiartax is a crock of shit -- and the leaders know it. Its bogus crap - because they pretend to get almost 2 trillion in revenue by a bullshit tax on GOVERNMENT.
Thats right -- these goofy bastards pretend they will just make the GOVERNMENT pay taxes. Read the following shit from the Fairtax Book, for example. Page 148 --
"The federal government itself will become a MAJOR taxpayer".
Not just federal government -- state and local government too. They know its bullshit.
Attend a TEA party wearing FairTax garb, waving FairTax signs, and handing out FairTax info cards or papers. Some Tea parties give or rent space for booths for conservative causes. I helped at a booth in Richmond a couple weeks ago, and one in Chesapeake a few weeks before that. With the current tea parties, there should be plenty of opportunitites to advertise the FairTax.
"The bill proposes replacing the income tax with a national sales tax and abolishing the IRS (Internal Revenue Service). A national sales tax is not something I support as it replaces an income tax with a consumption tax. However, looking at this bill from a personal and bureaucratic cost savings, I believe it is a step in the right direction." RON PAUL
DISCLAIMER FOR THOSE SERIOUS ABOUT DISCUSSING THE FAIRTAX: Sincere, intellectually honest debate is ALWAYS welcome, but ignore the person known as 12FlyMe/NawwLeans/Bullship Detector, etc. He continually posts a rash of lies, slanders, name-calling, and general nonsense, and has no interest in honest debate on HR25. Despite multitudes of facts and rational arguments presented in response to his rants, he continues undeterred in his campaign of misinformation. Pay no attention to him.
GOvernment paying its fuching self a trillion in sales tax is nothing new?
Who the fuch ties your lunatic shoes in the morning?
SHow me a fuchinig country in the history of the fuching earth that paid itself most of its own taxes -- as Fairtax is telling you fuching gullible it can do.
You fuching retards are an example of gullible dumb asses.
Fairtax is a FARCE -- the "leaders" know its a farce. Its not a serious plan.
You can have a sales tax instead of income tax, FICA, death tax, etc. Fine
But fuching math matters you retards. For a sales tax to work -- to replace all other taxes -- its already been figured you idiots. The tax rate would be 60% or more.
Because of MATH.
But Fairtax lies to your dumb asses and says it could be 23% --cause it counts pure bullshit farces as income.
It counts the dog shit dumb lie that the government can pay it self a trillion in taxes, and pretend its income.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
Our present tax system sucks -- its horrible.
Fairtax is a lying sack of shit that fools stupid people about how to get a fair simple system. Since Fairtax is full of shit -- its not the answer.
Ron Wyden has a rational plan - but its not about bullshit farces, it doesnt have scum bag bullshitters trying to fool people.
Wydens plan was for a simple tax code -- treat most income types alike -- very easy to figure. But its not bullshit, so most stupid people won't dig it.
Mark, you're always quick to offer your protests about FairTax (as ludicrous as your protests are) but why don't you ever offer your ideas for tax reform?
the current system isn't working and the fair tax would eliminate the IRS!!! plus, people sucking up the welfare would be responsiblefor putting some $ back into the system!!
Don true. But take automobiles as example. FORD nor GM pay corproate taxes. Not a dime pal, sorry They would save some - the FICA they pay their employer - about 100 dollars per car goes to FICA. They would save that.
But the sales tax on a 20,000 car, could be 10,000 dollars.
No one is going to put a 10,000 federal sales tax on cars.
And thats just one thing.
Fairtax is a farce. Not one aspect of it holds up.
We need a better tax code -- FT is bogus nonsense.
And where is some proof? I've been following this issue for three years and get my info from Harvard economists who have said what a great idea this is. Even Obama has said he's open to the idea. You get your whole paycheck PLUS the prebate check. Seriously people, look up some info before you start to sound like BAA BAA. LOLOL Talk about sheeple!!!!
We do need a simple and fair tax. But the so called FAIR tax is literally a farce. Our tax code sucks. The only thing worse than our present code, is this lunatic thing they ironically named Fairtax. It should be called a FARCE tax. Its dumber than dog do. It might sound right, until you learn the details. One detail they don't tell you -- Boortz admits we ALL first have to take a 30-40% "voluntary" pay cut. Thats right - FIRST we all have to accept a huge pay cut. Its crazy as hello.
Fairtax is a literal farce. Dumber than dog do. It pretends it will collect almost a trillion a year FROM the government in taxes -- hello!! Lunatics! Plus, just try to collect 30-40% sales tax on everyone's rent. Renters will ship. How the hell will you make everyone with medical cost pay 30-40% sales tax ? Its a tax on ALL rent, ALL medical cost, ALL insurance payments, its crazy as hell. Be careful what you wish for. This emperor is naked fool, folks. Its crazy nonsense.
Oversimplifying can lead to bad reasoning. The Fairtax does raise taxes on rent, medical costs, food, etc. It also, however, reduces the manufacturer's cost s in providing those products by taking the payroll taxes and corporate and income taxes out of the equation. We currently pay 30-40 percent in those taxes (even if we don't see it) and the end result of the fairtax is an equal amount of purchasing power as we have now, without the BS tax code.
I just wanted to say, isn't working to earn money for things like food and water and shelter a necessity of life? Because it is currently taxed in the form of income taxes. I am very much for the Fair Tax.
The Bankers at the FED, a Private corporation want to give us the UNFair Tax in Addition to our already burdensome Income Tax... Don't fall for it.... ABOLISH the FED INSTEAD
Fair tax is a sales tax on items that are produced by human effort using tools, i.e. capital. Everyone gets the point of not taxing earned incomes from labor and capital investment so why tax the things that are produced by labor and capital? Why not tax a value that does not penalize labor or capital or the products thereof. That value is land value in all its forms from the land under our homes to, to oil in the ground the value of which is created by everyone.
What a novel way to think about sales taxes. So they are taxes on the activity of spending money. The pernicious effects of such a tax whether it is a tax on a good or an activity are the same.
Land most certainly is not capital any more than human beings were capital during the time of slavery unless you just want to make no useful distinctions at all. Just because the cost of things like land or slaves is denominated in dollars does not change the fact of how their value came into being.
From BHI/fairtaxorg:"Households in the lowest income band, with an (AGI) of less than $10,000 annually, would benefit because they would receive the prebate that would more than offset any higher cost of purchasing goods.Households in the top income category, with more than $150,000 in annual income, would also gain as they do not have to pay their highest marginal tax rates. Mid-income category households would lose because the Fair Tax would impose a relatively higher tax rate on them."
"Fair" Tax aka National Sales Tax-inclusive aka "Nasti" hammers the middle classes...
If you are a fan of this tax, I am imploring you, open your mind, and please read and understand Table 11 (on page 31), concerning "Utility"(essentially, well-being) results yearly across income groups if the FT were to pass, at the following link on the FT backers' own site:
The FAIR TAX is revenue neutral - with the advantage that due to the stimulating effect on the economy and fraud reduction - overall tax receipts will increase. This choice whether to pay more taxes is entirely in the hands of the consumer - buy more - pay more.
It only shifts the tax collection action to the END of the consumer cycle (when you spend it), rather than the beginning (when you earn it).
It shifts the tax burden onto the middle classes, lowering their "well being" while raising the "well being" of the wealthy-- supporters' OWN DATA shows this. You don't have to believe me, go look at the backers' own site, with data like Table11 on page 31 of this "research" by supporting economists, NOT detractors:
FT/NST backers own data-- From Beacon Hill: Table 9. Average Tax-Inclusive Rates by Income Groups for the FairTax(Replacing Current Income, Payroll, and Estate and Gift Taxes) by income level deciles: 1 223% 2 30% 3 26% 4 22% 5 20% 6 19% 7 18% 8 19% 9 17% 10 13% Average 20%
The FT/NST hammers the middle classes. FT/NST backers own data-- From Beacon Hill: Table 9. Average Tax-Inclusive Rates by Income Groups for the FairTax(Replacing Current Income, Payroll, and Estate and Gift Taxes) by expenditures deciles: 1 25% 2 19% 3 19% 4 19% 5 19% 6 19% 7 19% 8 20% 9 20% 10 (highest) 19% Average 20%
Denmark has the highest income tax rate, with its top-taxed citizens paying 68% of their hard-earned crowns. The basic tax rate begins at 42%.
The FAIR TAX is NOT the highest
You are already paying the same tax rate on everything that the fair tax taxes, but rather than being embedded, the FAIR TAX makes it transparent. Your overall tax rate won't change but now you will see it.
If you complain about the FAIR TAX, you need to complain about the current taxes you pay - because they are the same.
Dude-- you have been absolutely duped by Boortz and the gang's misrepresentation of the concept of "embedded taxes"-- when you get your paycheck, is money taken out? The wage earner pays his IT and FICA from his salary, AND THIS IS DIFFERENT EFFECTIVE RATES depending on income. You may pay 10% in from salary BUT THE CEO IS PAYING 30% from his salary. So under an FT you keep 10% more, he keeps 30% more, and prices go up 15-30% or more. Please go look at the math, don't fall for the FT/NST scam.
Time for what?? -- the HIGHEST sales tax on earth? You idiots would bitch like stuck pigs under Fairtax.
The worlds HIGHEST sales tax, on YOUR RENT. Its also on gasoline - so federal gas tax would go from 18 cents, to 1.50 gallon you idiots.
It would be the HIGEST sales tax ON EARTH -- and be on your CAR insurance - yes, these idiots are taxing car insurance. And utility bills. And gasoline. And your medical cost. Everything. Its a farce - its nuts
You should learn more about the Fair Tax befor eyou go calling supporters of it Idiots. You already pay taxes on all of those things you just mentioned. Just no one tells you that part of the cost is going back to the business and then mailed to the IRS as tax money.
taxes in the form of higher prices".. this is easily shown to be false. CITs are an AFTEREFFECT tax-- profit is made then some is taken as tax. CIT does not effect product pricing-- when was the last time you saw a corporation with a huge profit for the year lower product prices because they made a profit? When companies have a loss, do they jack up prices of their products? Markets and competition are what drive prices/wages/economy.
The FT backers position this tax as a "make the wealthy pay their fair share!" in order to lure in clueless middles to cut their own throats, as this tax accomplishes the exact opposite.
The purpose of this tax is to cut Estate, Corporate, Gift, and Capital Gains taxes-- taxes which generally effect mainly the wealthy, and taxes which, if removed, would generally NOT lower the price of goods.
Estate taxes do not only impact the weathly. There's a lot of talk in this country about the importance of small business to our economy. But when individually owned businesses, mom and pop operations, and family farms get sold after the owner dies because his/her heirs can't afford to pay the taxes, no one bats an eye. These aren't wealthy socialites, but they still have to pay 50% of the value of the business after the owner dies. Does that sound fair to you?
No "small business" or "mom and pop operation" ever has to pay 50% of the total value of the business. Ever. This is a myth fostered by the very, very wealthy folks who want to get rid of Estate Taxes. A "mom and pop" business worth 2-4million$ will usually pay $0 in estate taxes.
Plus the fact that your argument is straw man-- my point is that removing Estate Taxes does not lower product prices in almost any cases.
When Bill Gates dies, if there is no Estate Tax, how much do you think the prices of MicroSoft products will be lowered because his heirs would have no Estate Taxes to pay?
Wrong. Anything over $1 mil is taxable at a rate of roughly 50%. Maybe not all that is Federal and it's particularily high in my state, but the fact remains that I was there when my husband's grandmother died and he and his mother had to sell the family farm in pieces.
Likew most FT fans you seem to be confusing marginal tax rates with effective tax rates...
1) go to the page I listed and read it to see how you are wrong.
2)"Anything over $1 mil" -- the current base deduction is 2million$, max rate is 45%. So, for example, even with no other trusts and money-protection, a 3million$ single person estate would pay $450,000 if they had no other deductions-- an effective rate of just 15%
3)Estate Tax has nothing to do with prices-- corn would not be cheaper.
And spekaing of small businesses, the FT/NST hammers small businesses the most. Ask a middle class person who owns a small business to explain why to you.
If I own a company and the Fair tax is implimented and the prices stay the same. I am going to lower my price to sell more than the other guys. they will follow my lead because I will be cutting their profits when I sell more than them.
you dont even know the current tax codes . and you want to take something you dont truley understand? income taxes is tax on wages..thats federal pay you just get outof your agreement with the w4 and keep all your monet....go to losthprizons get educated and stand up for the true law
As with FT fans, chw imagines that everyone against the crackpot "Fair" Tax is IRS... just so people know, I would have a huge tax break under the "Fair" Tax, but it would hammer my middle class friends with a huge tax increase while giving Bill Gates and Donald Trump ginormous tax cuts, so I am against it.
Yes, people SHOULD look at the math, as fans of the FT refuse to do, because it reveals how it would hammer the middles classes while giving the wealthy a huge tax cut.
Disk -- these morons would bitch more than anyone. I would be laughing -- they would be bitching. They would have to pay the worlds HIGHEST sales tax -- on rent. No one on earth charges sales tax on rent - cept these morons.
Wait till they get the worlds HIGHEST sales tax on their utility bill! ON their car insurance! On their health insurance! On their new HOUSE!
These morons would be screaming like a stuck pig -- cause thats what they would be -- stuck.
The "Fair" tax aka National Sales Tax-Inclusive aka "NaSTI" is as insane as the new home to Mike Gravel, the forever-fringe Libertarian Party (you know, that pol party that wants to turn the USA into a radioactive 3rd world nation by doing away with such things as government funding for public education and the Nuclear Regulatory Commission).
The "Fair" Tax is FAIL... so no doubt the LPers will jump on it, if they haven't already.
Another of the many flaws of this hammer-the-middle-classes tax:
There is not "23% of embedded taxes*" in the price of everything you buy. Taking the concept as FT fans define it, we see IT IS AN AVERAGE. Some items may have 35% or more in "embedded taxes" while others may have 5%. Thus an imposition of a 23%i/30%e sales tax throws markets for a loop.
*allowing for the concept of "embedded taxes" to be used... others can explain why this is a false idea with respect to the prices of goods
Actually most companies go through many of the same routines for producing and selling their goods, and therefore the 22% embedded tax figure (not 23) is a realistic figure that will be eliminated under the Fairtax, allowing the freemarket to drive prices down dramatically.
Actually that is not true, as the 23% is an average, as can be seen by HOW the 23% was arrived at, PLUS the simplified computation to get the 23% figure includes removing estate taxes and capital gains taxes, which are NOT a cost of goods sold but an aftereffect of pricing. Removing capital gains taxes and estate taxes does not lower the retail of goods.
They no longer have to be paid by anyone, neither the business nor the consumer, so they must be factored in as they will no longer exist for anyone. And I have read about the 22% and how it was computed, and the line of taxes on all businesses (which is basically a VAT) goes through much of the same process, just different factories.
CHW compute this pal -- the basic principle of Fairtax is that the sales tax will just replace the income tax -- that the amount "will be a wash" in people's paychecks. But because they DEPEND to get 800 billion FROM the government each year, which they CANT get, that alone means the REAL tax rate would be far higher. Plus they are wildly off about the embedded taxes for most companies. They are way off on both basic premesis. They KNOW its bullshit CH, they are fooling your gullible asp
They do not depend on that money from the gov't, that is just what would come from their spending. And it replaces more than the income tax. However, as I've told you before, I don't have time to keep aruging with someone such as yourself who is only lying about the Fairtax to protect his own personal interests (my guess is that you are an IRS or H&R Block employee. I just wanted to reply to a number of your posts to encourage people to research it for themselves, and I think I've done that.
CH - Im not IRS -- I loved the idea of a fairtax TILL I READ THE BOOK.
Read the book, and if you have a brain, you can tell its a con job, bullshit, hype.
CH -- the hell they DON'T depend on the government paying itself 800 billion a year. Thats exactly what they do. That's how the get it "down" to 23% on paper. Even 23% sales tax on rent, cancer surgery, car insurance, utiltity bills, is bullshit. But it would be more like 50-70%.
we weren't talking about his expenses, we were talking about corporate taxes, which will be eliminated, as well as their cost and ours of compliance. However, I believe the same thing of you as I do Mark (which is posted below), either that or you actually are Mark on a different post. If anyone is reading this, please do your own research before you believe anything that any of us say, as you should know that IRS and tax advice companies, and certain lobbyists want to stop this
Nice red herring, but Estate taxes and capital gains taxes wouls also be eliminated, BUT do not lower the price of goods, so prices go UP more than any increase middle class individuals will see in their cash flow.
The math is easy to understand, if fans of the FT would just go look at it.. but they won't, and continue to spout soundbites fed to them by Boortz and the gang.
The "embedded tax" idea was pushed Boortz, maybe invented my Jorgenson, who knows, but I see you bring nothing to the table-- let me guess, you still think the "embedded taxes" don't include personal FIT and FICA employees pay.
Let me know when you have done the math and see how you are being duped by Boortz and the gang.
Diskatopia -- get this. On Fairtaxgroups -- where "experts" answer questions about FT -- they claim no one in Fairtax even IMPLIED that people will get more money on their paycheck. They claim the employer is supposed to keep the money the employer used to pay the employee for FICA and income tax, and lower prices with it. (Even that wouldn't be enough to lower prices 22%) MOst of these idiots think they would keep all their money, their gross pay. Won't they be surprised!
Its time? Its time for WHAT? For a 40% sales tax on your rent? For a 50% sales tax on your utilities? For a 50% sales tax on your gasoline? A 50% sales tax on your medical cost -- even your car insurance, life insurance and health insurance? A bipartisan presidental commission studied this - and said a sales tax would have to be 57%. PRobably higher -- because people would avoid high tax items, like new houses and cars.
Fairtax is nonsense. They say 23%, but they are lying or stupid
Let Gov Huckabee explain how nursing home and cancer patients can pay a 30% sales tax on their surgery and medical cost. The "sales tax" alone could be 40,000 dollars.
Let Gov Huck explains how all renters will have to pay 30% more for their rent.
Let Gov Huck explain how everyone will have to pay 30% tax on their car insurance, health insurance, utility bills, ect.
Let Gov Huck explain how the military pays 300-400 billion a year in sales tax.
MarkDouglasC & MybookDeal & TaxSanity = the same person!
How do I know this? Look at the profiles... same age. Coincidence? How about this:
MarkDouglasC told me in another post that he wrote books. Also notice... he spams all FairTax video's. NOBODY can be that against this unless he has an interest to protect. He's IRS plain and simple. Nice try Mark!
I do go to a lot of Farce Tax sites and tell the poor suckers the truth.
This Fairtax crapola is nonsense -- it won't work. They claim they can "make the federal government become a MAJOR taxpayer".
Sure dufus -- just have the GOVERNMENT pay 800 billion in taxes -- TO ITSELF.
You are dumber than dog do.
Of course, they dont put this up front. THey hide this farce -- on page 148 of the Fairtax book. Look it up " The federal government ITSELF will become a MAJOR taxpayer"
They would never notice those taxes, as they would come back to them after the government's already dangerous habits of over spending (which is beyond the scope of taxes). But the 360 million people that will be paying into the tax system will be paying far more than that in taxes.
Hopefully at this point one or two fans out there are starting to think, starting to analyze the idea of supposed "embedded tax costs" and why it was created by Boortz et al.
One step is realizing that FIT and FICA and matching FICA are, in reality, wage and labor costs for comapanies, and that the amounts are different %ages of COGS for different companies, understanding that 23% is just an average--
you start to see the reason WHY the backers want most people to think about it as 23% average rather than what it really is (different for every company): in this way people who only have 0-15% of their wages paid in as taxes won't question how a 23% FT rate is obviously worse for them, because they are made to think that they are paying 23% in everytrhing they buy... when clearly they are not, THOSE AMOUNTS ARE FROM OTHER FOLKS WAGES, and are a business WAGES/LABOR cost, not "embedded taxes."
A simple way to see this is to realize that you cannot claim you pay income taxes AND 23% embedded tax costs in everything you buy, as OTHERS claiming the same thing about supposed "embedded taxes" from YOUR employer leads to all the tax revenue being counted TWICE, by the person whose wages the taxes came from AND by those buying the product with the supposed "emb. taxes."
These supposed "embedded taxes" (an average)can be analyzed in a general way, but cannot be applied to the individual.
Wrong, EVERY good or service you consume has its cost inflated by the embedded costs of Federal taxation in its current state. The current rate of embedded taxes in EVERY good or service is 25% not 23%. Gets your facts straight buddy :)
Gee, it's NOT 22-23%? I guess Boortz better get HIS facts straight:
"We write in The FairTax Book that the competitive pressures of the marketplace will force prices down when embedded taxes disappear from the cost of retail goods (edit) Does this 22% include the income and payroll taxes that are paid by employees? Yes, it does." Boortz
Ha Diskatopia you blew it. You prove you know nothing about the FairTax with "...and why it was created by Boortz et al." Try and debate the FairTax on its merits instead making stuff up, ok?
The "embedded tax" idea was pushed Boortz, maybe invented my Jorgenson, who knows, but I see you bring nothing to the table-- let me guess, you still think the "embedded taxes" don't include personal FIT and FICA employees pay.
Let me know when you have done the math and see how you are being duped by Boortz and the gang.
Is the FT/NST "progressive" or "regressive"? Here is the quote from one of the Beacon Hill treatises on the AFT site:
"The key result of the foregoing discussion is that it matters fundamentally how one frames the discussion of the distributional effects of the FairTax. When people are sorted by expenditure per capita, the FairTax is progressive; when they are sorted by income per capita, it is regressive."
Those who undertand what this means now understand what a bad idea the FT/NST is.
A Progressive tax is social engineering, trying to change peoples behavior though excessive taxation and/or pure wealth re-distribution. Your starting to sound like a socialist or communist here Diskatopia.
The FT/NST is often pushed, as in this video, with the idea that "you can control how much you pay in taxes," so llet's look at this claim.
Who can most easily avoid taxes by buying very expensive "used' real estate, or "used factories" or castles in Germany? The very wealthy, of course. Clearly the wealthy will pay less in taxes under an FT-- mathematicaly they automatically get at least an 11% rate reduction (26 v. 23%). Where is this money made up to keep the tax revenue neutral?
Clearly the FT "reveneue neutral" rate is mandated by consumption, and supporters state that consumption rates are steadier than income. So evewn if consumption is steady, and the wealthy consume exactly the same under the FT/NST, where do the taxes needed to make up their lower rates (again, 23 v. 23%)?
Looking at the current total effective tax rates of the middle classes, we see that the taxes are made up by them-- because 23% is greater than 10-21%.
SO what happens if all classes start legally avoiding the tax (saving more, buying "used") and consumption starts to drop? Clearly, to remain "revenue neutral" the rate would have to be increased. And as the rate is increased, the all classes try to avoid more... but which class can avoid the most, which class has the most disposable income? Clearly, the wealthy. Clearly, the middle classes bear the burden of much of the tax avoidance the wealthy partake of.
NO, if we are talking about the same spot, the video had the MARGINAL rate and FICA rather than the EFFECTIVE, ACTUAL total rate vs. income -- and both FIT and FICA are included in the percentages in the table at cbo dot gov .
This is another favorite sleight-of-hand of FT videos and sites-- comparing current marginal rates and brackets (ignoring what people TRULY pay, effective rate), pre-deductions, EIC, etc., with the FT/NST.
They seem to do this because they think those reading/watching are too ignorant to see the trick. Maybe they don't want people to consider effective rates either now or under FT/NST, because they, laughably, claim the effective rate for "billionaires" will be 23% under FT/NST.
Here you to start to show your true colors. You are one of those "hate the rich" types and your class envy is showing through. My guess is that you perceive the current tax code as a legitimate means to 'redistribute' wealth to address inequities? If so then stop beating around the bush and lying about the FairTax.
ONeof the "tricks" of the "Fair" Tax: backers will claim their models show the economy is "better", gdp up, but it depends on how one defines "better", as having a higher GDP does NOT mean that the increase is going to all citizens. HOW is the GDP increase achieved? By taxing the middleclasses more, in effect making them work MORE to have to have the same life as now, while the income of the wealthy skyrockets at lower taxe rates than they pay now. Yes, the wealthy would have it "better"....
1969was1969 2 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
The "savings would increase" argument does not work...
if it were to pass (it won't, thank goodness), many would spend all of their savings BEFORE it was enacted, thus avoiding the price increases(remember, if "everyone keeps their whole paycheck", then end prices rise about 20-27% upon addition of the tax). IF people save more after enacted, the tax rate has to increase (revenue neutral, remember).
This tax is just a bad idea, increasing the middleclasses avg. federal taxes.
1969was1969 2 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
The "Fair" Tax is basically class warfare,the wealthy declaring war on the middleclasses by raising their effective tax rates. It would, by Americans for Fair Taxation's own admission, raise the effective tax rate of those making from $15,000 to $150,000 a year while lowering the effective rate of those making $150,000 and up a year. Source:tinyurl 593htl, page 30 on -pay particular attention to table 13, years 7-8 -- would you be "better off" if your income dropped from $25k to less than $10k?
FairTaxisaLie 5 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
For proof that the "Fair Tax" aka National Sales Tax Inclusive aka NASTI would raise the taxes of those making from about $15k to $150k a year while greatly lowering the taxes of most who make from around $150k up, one only needs to read and understand pages 30 on of one of fairtaxorg's own "research" at tinyurl 593htl. Pay particular attention to table 13-- this is how they claim the middleclass is better off under FT/NASTI, by them FALLING INTO POVERTY LEVEL every few years (see years 7-8).
FairTaxisaLie 6 months ago
Another trick the backers of the "Fair" Tax AKA National Sales Tax-Inclusive AKA NASTI are pulling-- it's a backdoor way to do away with Social Security. Notice that there is no way to tell how little or how much one has worked, so any disbursements would be equal-- those who do no work would get the same as those who worked their whole lives. Sneaky backers dodge the issue on their site by alleging that SocSec "operates exactly as it does today".. which is clearly impossible, wages not known.
FairTaxisaLie 6 months ago
For proof that the "Fair Tax" aka National Sales Tax Inclusive aka NASTI would raise the taxes of those making from about $15k to $150k a year while greatly lowering the taxes of most who make from around $150k up, one only needs to read and understand pages 30 on of one of fairtaxorg's own "research" at tinyurl 593htl. Pay particular attention to table 13-- this is how they claim the middleclass is better off under FT/NASTI, by them FALLING INTO POVERTY LEVEL every few years (see years 7-8).
FairTaxisaLie 6 months ago
@FairTaxisaLie
BTW, tinyurl's are temporary. If you want to give a straight Url, that would be better. I'd have to take a look at the stuff you are reading in order to give you a good response. In the table I posted, a family of four -- two parents and two kids, with a bit over 29K, in income would have zero tax with the prebate.
On second thought maybe an updated Url. I just tried a full Url and couldn't post.
Drgn70 6 months ago
@Drgn70 The tiny url 593htl still works (last letter is an "L"), and has worked for over a year. YT doesn't allow full URLs AFAIK. Just type "tinyurl" then dotcom then forward slash then 593htl in the browser address line.
FairTaxisaLie 6 months ago
@Drgn70 As for a select family of four example- with all monies spent (usual at that income) and allowing 10% being on non-taxed items (used items, charity donations), I get that they are taxed about $700, whereas now they would likely be at a negative tax (receive more than they paid in). With the increase in prices due to tax (both sides admit anywhere from 5-25%), what they can buy is greatly diminished. FTorg/BHI studies admit this.
FairTaxisaLie 6 months ago
The "Fair" Tax aka national Sales Tax- Inclusive aka NASTI would on average raise the federal taxes of those making from $15k-$150k a year while lowering the fed taxes of those making over $150k a year. This is not debateable, it is from supporters' own site and "research".
How do they claim the middle classes will still be better off, then? By asserting that if one's income drops from $35k to $10k a year, one is better off. Does any sensible person think that way? tinyurl 593htl, table 13.
FairTaxisaLie 7 months ago
@FairTaxisaLie You are absolutely wrong! The Fair Tax completely eliminates ALL Federal Income related tax for those below the poverty line, but PREBATING the entire tax that a family at the poverty line would pay. Moreover, it COMPLETELY ELIMINATES the Social Security and Medicare tax that ALL WORKERS pay, regardless of income. In addition, it provides anyone with the opportunity to AVOID the Fair Tax (National sales Tax) by purchasing USED items (Cars, Homes, etc.)
JohnWVettel 6 months ago
@JohnWVettel From fairtaxorg:"Households in the lowest income band,with an adj. gross income of less than $10,000 annually, would benefit ... they would receive the prebate that would more than offset any higher cost of purchasing goods. Households in the top income..,with more than $150,000 in annual income, would also gain as they do not have to pay their highest marginal tax rates. Mid-income cat. households would lose because the FairTax would impose a relatively higher tax rate on them.
FairTaxisaLie 6 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Another quote from Beacon Hill /SUPPORTERS' data: "If we group taxpayers by income per capita, the bottom five deciles lose under the FairTax." They try their best to fudge this data by claiming "but, under income mobility..." however, the problem with the fudging is that the "mobility" that provides the most benefit in their scenarios is one's income DROPPING into the poor range. As an example, they call dropping from say $30k to $10k an huge INCREASE in "utility" (basically quality of life).
Diskatop 7 months ago
I hate unfair Taxation!
SaraCHAII 9 months ago
Asa former Fairtax cult member, I can tell you two things.
1) Fairtax sounds good
2) Fairtax isbullshit.
Google fairtax fine print
BullshipDetector 11 months ago
@BullshipDetector
I'm pretty sure you don't understand the FairTax because you've made no point of argument to the contrary.
Drgn70 6 months ago
You obviously know nothing about government. I have worked in government for 24 years. You obviously are not literate enough to have read the FairTax. You have a limited vocabulary. Anyone who resorts to the kind of name calling and crap you are shoveling out to people you don't even know. I have just learned who you are and that a good friend of mine is actually related to you and is quite a good person-unlike you. Oh, and I see by your upload you support slavery-That explains a lot.
SamSlay46 1 year ago
@SamSlay46 You stupid fuck, I have 32 years in with the government. Check out my pension check, retard.
Second, dumb fuck, I was a big Fairtax supporter till I read the fine print. Do you know that there is a massive hidden tax in Fairtax fine print? Stupid fuck -- your leaders admit there is a massive, truly massive, tax on city and state governments, that they do not EVEN FUCKING MENTION in their books, videos and sppeches.
Google Fairtax fine print you dumb shit.
12FlyMe 1 year ago
@12FlyMe and your 35 other youtube aliases
What is the difference between you buying yourself a loaf of bread and your state buying one for you? Besides the fact that you pay the government to buy the loaf of bread, nothing. You consume it either way, and both you and the state currently pay the embedded cost of income capital gain, corporate income and other taxes.
Exempting government consumption will cause every one will ask the government to give them everything.
dtvgmedia 10 months ago
Fairtax for 10 years, never mentioned one word about a massive tax on city and state governments. Never in the 3000 speeches - not one word about these massive taxes on city and state government. Never in several thousand videos.
Never a word about this massive tax on city and state governments in the 10,000 pages online. Never one word.
Then they mention, barely, ONE sentence about this massive tax, and say "Oh, we have been honest about this massive tax on city and states " BS
12FlyMe 1 year ago
You obviously know nothing about government. I have worked in government for 24 years. You obviously are not literate enough to have read the FairTax. You have a limited vocabulary. Anyone who resorts to the kind of name calling and crap you are shoveling out to people you don't even know. I have just learned who you are and that a good friend of mine is actually related to you and is quite a good person-unlike you. Oh, and I see by your upload you support slavery-That explains a lot.
SamSlay46 1 year ago
@SamSlay46 Go on you piece of shit -- go fucking read the fine print.
Are you too pussy? I show you the fine print -- AND I show your leader's own explanation for the fine print.
SO you stupid shit, go read the fine print. Then read your own leaders try to explain it away.
Okay retard? Go read the fine print -- go read your own leaders try to explain it. Learn something you stupid fuck.
12FlyMe 1 year ago
@12FlyMe
"Service providers are not exempt from the income tax today, and should not be exempt from the FairTax." It was very easy to find. Do you think a garbage collector from a private company pay while the government garbage collection be tax free? There is more discussion about this on the FairTax site. I'll try to find more on that if you need more on this. If you read more about it, it makes sense.
Drgn70 6 months ago
@Drgn70 You stupid fucking idiot -- service providers? you fucking idiot, all military pay is taxed.
Got that you stupid fuck. All military PENSIONS are taxed. Got that you stupid fuck.
New York City, you stupid fuck, would have to pay 8 billion -- 3 billion IN ADVANCE.
Got that you stupid fucking moron. I know more about Fairtax than you know about your dick, moron.
12FlyMe 6 months ago
Want to save Detroit? Tired of the lable "Made in China?" Want to take home your entire paycheck? Want a monthy check from the Federal govt? FAIR TAX is the yes answer to all of the above.
TheAmericanRifleman 1 year ago 2
Those folks commenting against the FairTax have obviously never read the entire bill. Furthermore, ethically it is a better plan than working nearly 4-6 months to pay taxes. Read the bill or if you choose maybe we can keep taxing you under the OLD system if you enjoy paying these unfair taxes. Have a great day!
SamSlay46 1 year ago
@SamSlay46 you stupid shit, I know the bill, the books, the blogs, I personally know some of the leaders, I was a Fairtax fan long before your stupid ass ever heard of it.
But then I saw the fine print and asked questions about it, you stupid shit. Go google Fairtax fine print.
Learn something idiot.
12FlyMe 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
i love it, but it will never pass
MFP1520 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
The Fair Tax is the dumbest tax we could possibly have. If you look at the history of sales taxes:
Charles I, 1642, deposed, decapitated
James II, 1688, deposed, Stuarts terminated
George III, lost colonies
Louis XVI, 1789-93, guillotined
Jefferson Davis, 1861-65, funds CSA with sales tax, CSA goes bankrupt
Czar Nicholas II, cannot finance war from sales taxes, shot, Romanov's done
India 1947, sales tax on salt, British gone
South Vietnam 1960-65, doubled sales tax, landowners untaxed, VC win
land4citizens 1 year ago
f you want more FairTax on television and to help spread it to more people, I know that PassFairTax(dot)com is doing a great job on getting signatures and support
BrSmith1321 1 year ago
I will fight for this to finally become law. I will sponsor any bill related to implementing the Fairtax. This is my promise to the people. Thank you
John Krause, Citizen candidate Florida District 1
johnkrause4congress 1 year ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Fairtax is a hoax, a farce, it's own leaders would poop their pants if it ever even had a hearing under oath.
Oh it sounds gret -- but its bullshit and they know it. 13 years and NO hearings under oath?
A huge tax on GOVERNMENT? A huge tax on EVERY city? A huge tax on every state -- because that's what fairtax is -- massive taxes on GOVERNMENT and people. They hide this because they know it's insane. They have no intention of passing their own bullshit farce
FairtaxFraud 1 year ago
LETS DO IT NOW! Get Obama to pass this!
davenetdog 1 year ago
The only people who should oppose this plan are the illegals, welfare recipients who have never worked for anything in their entire lives, drug dealers, hookers and the like. The uneducated, underachievers will swear, name call, threaten and critisize. Just look at the ignorance in the comments that exist on this site already. This threatens everything they've known their entire lives.
Sharon123460 1 year ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Yes we need to put the highest fucking sales tax on earth --- and apply it to RENT. That's gonna go over real well dumb fucks.
We need to put this extremely high tax -- on all city spending. Fucking AAAA --- no city will object.
We need to put this extremely high tax on the parents of a child with cancer - how dare they spend money trying to save their child!!!! Tax them with the highest tax on earth!
Great plan dumb fucks -- why arent the leaders trying to pass it? ITS GENIUS!!!
NawwLeans 1 year ago
Sharon - wrong -- people who care bout logic should hate Fairtax Farce.
Cancer victims -- would have to pay MASSIVE taxes. Nursing home residents - massive taxes. Renters -- very high taxes.
It would fucking DESTROY new house sales dumb ass. Of course the FT leaders know all this - they know their own plan is pure bullshit, they are NOT trying to pass this. They are trying to fool your dumb ass
FairtaxFraud 1 year ago
@FairtaxFraud Massive taxes on what you freaking moron????
List sources.
List the text that says this what will happen.
I can always tell people who are full of crap because they always seem to use people like cancer patients, the elderly, or helpless little chicldren to keep you from arguing with them
What you have to believe is that this group of people spent all this time and money to propose a system, for eveyone to see, so they can screw over people!!!!
You're a moron, and a SPAMMER
EchoMike03 1 year ago
@EchoMik . I am in daily email with Fairtax leaders -- they brag about these massive taxes on city and states, telling me how important they are, and telling me these are VERY CLEAR to everyone.
Got that? I've got the emails and posts on their blogs to prove it -- how this massive tax on city and states is great, and everyone knows about it.
Then you dumb fucks tell me, no, there is no massive tax on city and states.
You stupid shit, learn something. Google Fairtax fine print.
12FlyMe 1 year ago
We need stupid people in the USA to learn how to think.
The last thing any Fairtax leader wants is their own "plan" to pass. It's goofy, and they know it's goofy.
It's goofy because they pretend to tax the government for most of the money FOR the government. They know they can't really do that -- that's why they hid this shit in their fine print.
This goofy plan shows how gulllible many stupid people are.
FairtaxFraud 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
I'm confused. don't they already pay taxes to them self through income taxes to their employees? not to mention, embedded taxes in their contracts? So I suppose it would work like that with out the probability of self imposed tax breaks to reduce private sector (you know those guys who give us jobs.) competition. I can live with that.
laudanum4u 1 year ago
@FairtaxFraud HUH?
Sharon123460 1 year ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Sharon dumb ass --- what do you call a plan that would get MOST of it's revenue FROM taxing the government?
Tax the government for MOST of your revenue - you fucking idiot -- is pure fucking bullshit.
Do you grasp that you moron?
Fairtax " leaders" know it's insane crap.
They hid it in their fine print BECAUSE they know its fucking bullshit.
Got that yet retard? Tax the government?
Hello dumb ass - it's a fucking farce.
12FlyMe 1 year ago
@12FlyMe -Everyone should know that 12FlyMe, FairTaxFraud and other screen names are the same person that is probably paid by the NWO that absolutely fear the Fair Tax because they know that if they can't control our money they can't finish their plan to dominate us and make us their slaves. Ignore him/her-better yet mock him/her.
jacknash711 1 year ago
@jacknash711 sorry Jack -- Im not paid. I just believed in Fairtax -- then found out it was pure horse shit. I found out their own leaders know it's horse shit, and they are NOT trying to pass it.
Guess what Jack -- I want this horse shit to pass!! I would love to see you tards try to tax cancer victims, cities, states, renters. I would LOVE IT.
But Fairtax LEADERS don't want it to even have a hearing, much less to pass, because THEY know its pure horse shit.
12FlyMe 1 year ago
@12FlyMe - Would you mind enlightening us on what about it is "horseshit"? How does our current system NOT tax "cancer victims, cities, states, renters".
flynnfree 1 year ago
@flynnfree you stupid fuck, our system does not make my neighbor with cancer pay 40 times the federal tax I do.
Got that retard? My neighbor (same financial situation as I have) could easily pay 40 times as much federal tax as I would, ONLY because she has cancer.
Do you really fucking think they will make a cancer victim pay 100K in sales tax you stupid shit? What if she onlyl makes 30K you retard.
Think you dumb fuck, think.
12FlyMe 1 year ago
We need a president who will support a Fair Tax. If the Republican Party wants to succeed they'll back this and make it so every leader they nominate has signed a pledge not to vote for an unbalanced budget.
cpblackangel88 2 years ago 4
@cp
Fairtax is a farce, -- read their fine print. Besides the massive tax on people -- on rent, on food, on utilities, on everything -- its a massive tax on city and state governments. Your city, your county, your state, will have to pay massive taxes on every dime they spend. That may sound great to you, but
1) they hide this
2) they hide this
3) they hide this
4) city and states would have to raise massive revenue to pay it
5) they hide this
12FlyMe 1 year ago
@12FlyMe - Would you mind quoting the "fine print" you reference? We pay massive taxes on everything already. Most taxes are hidden in the costs of goods and services. Most of these hidden taxes will be eliminated with passage of The Fairtax bringing the costs down and people can always buy used items. Recycling would go up! Environmentalists should love it! You hate our planet. Don't you?
flynnfree 1 year ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
No --- Fairtax actually COUNTS the money they pretend to GET from this fucking farce bullshit tax.
The purpose of including a massive tax on government (and hiding that fact) is to fool your dumb ass.
Why on EARTH hide the largest revenue source - in ONE sneaky ass sentence??
That should tell you gullible idiots SOMETHING.
Its a HOAX -- its bullshit and the leaders KNOW it.
12FlyMe 2 years ago
@12FlyMe wow you sound really smart!
Sharon123460 1 year ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Fiartax is a crock of shit -- and the leaders know it. Its bogus crap - because they pretend to get almost 2 trillion in revenue by a bullshit tax on GOVERNMENT.
Thats right -- these goofy bastards pretend they will just make the GOVERNMENT pay taxes. Read the following shit from the Fairtax Book, for example. Page 148 --
"The federal government itself will become a MAJOR taxpayer".
Not just federal government -- state and local government too. They know its bullshit.
12FlyMe 2 years ago
Comment removed
urb0123 2 years ago
Attend a TEA party wearing FairTax garb, waving FairTax signs, and handing out FairTax info cards or papers. Some Tea parties give or rent space for booths for conservative causes. I helped at a booth in Richmond a couple weeks ago, and one in Chesapeake a few weeks before that. With the current tea parties, there should be plenty of opportunitites to advertise the FairTax.
urgener 2 years ago 2
This has been flagged as spam show
Fairtax is PURE bullshit. Its a massive NEW tax (which they hide in fine print) on the government.,
Everything from police departments to the military to NASA to Medicaid -- have to pay massive taxes.
IN fact Fairtax only gets about half its income from "People" these goofy bastards pretend to get half of the revenue FROM the government.
Funny shit -- -and Fairtax said "only people pay taxes" but then pretend this crap.
Check out the fine print.
Its utter fucking nonsense.
CanteenKid 2 years ago
"The bill proposes replacing the income tax with a national sales tax and abolishing the IRS (Internal Revenue Service). A national sales tax is not something I support as it replaces an income tax with a consumption tax. However, looking at this bill from a personal and bureaucratic cost savings, I believe it is a step in the right direction." RON PAUL
TruthsHidden 2 years ago 2
This has been flagged as spam show
Joe is a dumb ass about taxes.
The national sales tax joe wants is bogus crap. ITs the worlds highest sales tax.
Fairtax -- 50% tax on your rent.
Fairtax - 50% sales tax on your car insurance
Fairtax -- 50% sales tax on your utility bill
Fairtax
Fairtax - 50% saless tax on everything.
They claim 30% tax on everything -- but thats based on gettting a trillion dollars in sales taxes FROM the government.
Bull shit -- the gov paying itself is just a bail out retard.
12FlyMe 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Fairtax pretend a lot of shit. Sure it sounds great. To bad its bullshit and they lie.
For example - tells you real economist agree, or that there was "research"
No economist on earth says you can make the government pay itself a trillion dollars in sales tax - and count that as income.
Their "research" is pure bullshit too.
IF anyone believed fairtax, its because they don't know it.
We need a new code - but Fairtax is bullshit.
NawwLeans 2 years ago
DISCLAIMER FOR THOSE SERIOUS ABOUT DISCUSSING THE FAIRTAX: Sincere, intellectually honest debate is ALWAYS welcome, but ignore the person known as 12FlyMe/NawwLeans/Bullship Detector, etc. He continually posts a rash of lies, slanders, name-calling, and general nonsense, and has no interest in honest debate on HR25. Despite multitudes of facts and rational arguments presented in response to his rants, he continues undeterred in his campaign of misinformation. Pay no attention to him.
TruthsHidden 2 years ago 2
Comment removed
TruthMattersToMe 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Its a toilet that flushes into your bathtub you retard.
How the fuch will FT make the government pay itself over a trillion a year in sales tax?
Cause that's exactlly what their bullshit math is based on.
Read page 148 - "The federal government itself will become a MAJOR taxpayer"
Pure bullshit.
12FlyMe 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Yes we need a new tax code.
But Fairtax is bullshit farce
Fairtax only works if its possible to make the government pay over a trillion dollar in sales tax -- TO ITSELF.
IF that doesnt fucking work --- and it doesnt -- the Fairtax is pure bullshit.
Fairtax is a magic fucking pony that shits gold. It pure bullshit.
Yes it sounds great - -but real math shows a national sales tax to replace all others would be OVER 60%.
Not fucking 23 ding bat.
It only 23 if gov can pay itself
BullshipDetector 2 years ago
I've got to get this on DVD. The Fair Tax is the only way to go.
ziglet2008 2 years ago
I have it on DVD....it's what we show to start the meetings here in Oklahoma City.
I can send you a copy if you can't get one from your local group
BritBoyProductions 2 years ago
Can you send me one? I'll be glad to pay for it. Fair Tax time is right around the corner! I feel it in my bones.
ziglet2008 2 years ago
Message me your details ;)
BritBoyProductions 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Its a no brainer all right -- its pure bullshit.
You retards should think for yourself.
This bullshit farce plan is based on collecting over a trillion dollars in sales tax FROM the government, you retard.
THATS the fuching no brainer, moron.
Thats why real studies have shown a retail sales tax would be much much higher than 23% -- you idiot -- because they don't pretend shit like that.
MarkDouglasC 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Are you retarded???
GOvernment paying its fuching self a trillion in sales tax is nothing new?
Who the fuch ties your lunatic shoes in the morning?
SHow me a fuchinig country in the history of the fuching earth that paid itself most of its own taxes -- as Fairtax is telling you fuching gullible it can do.
You fuching retards are an example of gullible dumb asses.
Fairtax is a FARCE -- the "leaders" know its a farce. Its not a serious plan.
MarkDouglasC 2 years ago
You can have a sales tax instead of income tax, FICA, death tax, etc. Fine
But fuching math matters you retards. For a sales tax to work -- to replace all other taxes -- its already been figured you idiots. The tax rate would be 60% or more.
Because of MATH.
But Fairtax lies to your dumb asses and says it could be 23% --cause it counts pure bullshit farces as income.
It counts the dog shit dumb lie that the government can pay it self a trillion in taxes, and pretend its income.
MarkDouglasC 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Our present tax system sucks -- its horrible.
Fairtax is a lying sack of shit that fools stupid people about how to get a fair simple system. Since Fairtax is full of shit -- its not the answer.
Ron Wyden has a rational plan - but its not about bullshit farces, it doesnt have scum bag bullshitters trying to fool people.
Wydens plan was for a simple tax code -- treat most income types alike -- very easy to figure. But its not bullshit, so most stupid people won't dig it.
MarkDouglasC 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
No dumb ass the government does fuching not collect a trillion dollars in tax on its self.
If you mean the payroll tax for its employees, that just like any other agency pays.
But fuching notice the government doesnt pay a sales tax on new highways?
The Navy doesnt pay a sales tax on Air craft carriers?
The idea that the government can pay itself a trillion in sales tax is dumb as dog shit.
Its beyond dumb - its delusional crap.
MarkDouglasC 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
If these idiots in the video know what Fairtax really was -- pure bullshit -- they would crapola in their pants.
They have apparently NO idea Fairtax is a literal farce.
MarkDouglasC 2 years ago
Mark, you're always quick to offer your protests about FairTax (as ludicrous as your protests are) but why don't you ever offer your ideas for tax reform?
TBEau1 2 years ago 2
This comment has received too many negative votes show
I know about Fairtax -- I read the book four times. I have the second bullshit book now. I read the fine print too.
Its pure hogwash -- not a little hogwash.
I know FT fools you idiots, pretending they can collect sales tax FROM the government, and count that as income.
Even idiots should figure out thats bullshit.
I also know Boortz admits that for FT bullshit math to work as he claims -- everyone will have to DONATE their tax savings BACK to their employer.
MarkDouglasC 2 years ago
The government collecting taxes from itself is nothing new, they've been doing it for about a century now.
TBEau1 2 years ago
the current system isn't working and the fair tax would eliminate the IRS!!! plus, people sucking up the welfare would be responsiblefor putting some $ back into the system!!
cjodigo 2 years ago 2
This has been flagged as spam show
Don true. But take automobiles as example. FORD nor GM pay corproate taxes. Not a dime pal, sorry They would save some - the FICA they pay their employer - about 100 dollars per car goes to FICA. They would save that.
But the sales tax on a 20,000 car, could be 10,000 dollars.
No one is going to put a 10,000 federal sales tax on cars.
And thats just one thing.
Fairtax is a farce. Not one aspect of it holds up.
We need a better tax code -- FT is bogus nonsense.
NawwLeans 2 years ago
And where is some proof? I've been following this issue for three years and get my info from Harvard economists who have said what a great idea this is. Even Obama has said he's open to the idea. You get your whole paycheck PLUS the prebate check. Seriously people, look up some info before you start to sound like BAA BAA. LOLOL Talk about sheeple!!!!
Holly77Berry 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
We do need a simple and fair tax. But the so called FAIR tax is literally a farce. Our tax code sucks. The only thing worse than our present code, is this lunatic thing they ironically named Fairtax. It should be called a FARCE tax. Its dumber than dog do. It might sound right, until you learn the details. One detail they don't tell you -- Boortz admits we ALL first have to take a 30-40% "voluntary" pay cut. Thats right - FIRST we all have to accept a huge pay cut. Its crazy as hello.
NawwLeans 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Fairtax is a literal farce. Dumber than dog do. It pretends it will collect almost a trillion a year FROM the government in taxes -- hello!! Lunatics! Plus, just try to collect 30-40% sales tax on everyone's rent. Renters will ship. How the hell will you make everyone with medical cost pay 30-40% sales tax ? Its a tax on ALL rent, ALL medical cost, ALL insurance payments, its crazy as hell. Be careful what you wish for. This emperor is naked fool, folks. Its crazy nonsense.
NawwLeans 2 years ago
Oversimplifying can lead to bad reasoning. The Fairtax does raise taxes on rent, medical costs, food, etc. It also, however, reduces the manufacturer's cost s in providing those products by taking the payroll taxes and corporate and income taxes out of the equation. We currently pay 30-40 percent in those taxes (even if we don't see it) and the end result of the fairtax is an equal amount of purchasing power as we have now, without the BS tax code.
dontbugme384 2 years ago
FairTax is a GREAT IDEA!
tom1600x1050 2 years ago 2
If they pass the Fair Tax (I'm not holding my breath) I will get my own grassroots organization and stage my own Whisky Rebellion!!
RadioFreeWisconsin 3 years ago
I'm for the FairTax. Haven't we suffered enough under the current progresive income tax system?
85Pats 3 years ago 3
I just wanted to say, isn't working to earn money for things like food and water and shelter a necessity of life? Because it is currently taxed in the form of income taxes. I am very much for the Fair Tax.
jboritzki 3 years ago 3
soo what happens when everyone makes more money and wants bigger houses?? ... we cant just build more in space we dont have.
toasticle1 3 years ago
We're not China. There is plenty of room to build.
jboritzki 3 years ago
The Bankers at the FED, a Private corporation want to give us the UNFair Tax in Addition to our already burdensome Income Tax... Don't fall for it.... ABOLISH the FED INSTEAD
Google The Money Masters
FiatLux8888 3 years ago
You're talking nonsense.
ajpmathwiz 3 years ago
Fair tax is a sales tax on items that are produced by human effort using tools, i.e. capital. Everyone gets the point of not taxing earned incomes from labor and capital investment so why tax the things that are produced by labor and capital? Why not tax a value that does not penalize labor or capital or the products thereof. That value is land value in all its forms from the land under our homes to, to oil in the ground the value of which is created by everyone.
ourearthhome 3 years ago
First, sales taxes are not taxes on products sold, they are taxes on money spent.
Second, land IS capital. Taxing land is just as destructive as taxing any other form of capital.
Piscivorus 3 years ago 2
What a novel way to think about sales taxes. So they are taxes on the activity of spending money. The pernicious effects of such a tax whether it is a tax on a good or an activity are the same.
Land most certainly is not capital any more than human beings were capital during the time of slavery unless you just want to make no useful distinctions at all. Just because the cost of things like land or slaves is denominated in dollars does not change the fact of how their value came into being.
ourearthhome 3 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
From BHI/fairtaxorg:"Households in the lowest income band, with an (AGI) of less than $10,000 annually, would benefit because they would receive the prebate that would more than offset any higher cost of purchasing goods.Households in the top income category, with more than $150,000 in annual income, would also gain as they do not have to pay their highest marginal tax rates. Mid-income category households would lose because the Fair Tax would impose a relatively higher tax rate on them."
Diskatop 3 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Want your real income to go up 0-2% while the income of those making $200K or so and up see their real
income go up nearly 50%, and retail prices (with the tax added on) go up 10-25%?
Then this insane tax is for you.
Diskwin 3 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
"Fair" Tax aka National Sales Tax-inclusive aka "Nasti" hammers the middle classes...
If you are a fan of this tax, I am imploring you, open your mind, and please read and understand Table 11 (on page 31), concerning "Utility"(essentially, well-being) results yearly across income groups if the FT were to pass, at the following link on the FT backers' own site:
tinyurl dotcomslash 593htl
Diskatopia 3 years ago
This Is the way to be.. please read the book..
learn and understand this will save our country...
fairtax,org
boortz, c. om watch seminar
LILGEO3 3 years ago
Great video, hopefully it will help clear up some of the lies going around about the Fairtax.
chwparker 3 years ago 2
The FAIR TAX is revenue neutral - with the advantage that due to the stimulating effect on the economy and fraud reduction - overall tax receipts will increase. This choice whether to pay more taxes is entirely in the hands of the consumer - buy more - pay more.
It only shifts the tax collection action to the END of the consumer cycle (when you spend it), rather than the beginning (when you earn it).
alittlechild 3 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
It shifts the tax burden onto the middle classes, lowering their "well being" while raising the "well being" of the wealthy-- supporters' OWN DATA shows this. You don't have to believe me, go look at the backers' own site, with data like Table11 on page 31 of this "research" by supporting economists, NOT detractors:
tinyurl dotcomslash 593htl
Diskatopia 3 years ago
Diskwin 3 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Diskwin 3 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Effective Federal Tax Rates 2007(as estimated by the Congressional Budget Office), FICA/FT/Excise:
1ST Quintile: 5.7%
2nd: 12.3%
3rd: 15.9%
4th: 20%
Top: 26.5%
Top 1% : 30.9%
These %ages INCLUDE employers' share of FICA and CIT also.
Even with the prebate, the "Fair" Tax hammers the middle class.
Diskwin 3 years ago
Denmark has the highest income tax rate, with its top-taxed citizens paying 68% of their hard-earned crowns. The basic tax rate begins at 42%.
The FAIR TAX is NOT the highest
You are already paying the same tax rate on everything that the fair tax taxes, but rather than being embedded, the FAIR TAX makes it transparent. Your overall tax rate won't change but now you will see it.
If you complain about the FAIR TAX, you need to complain about the current taxes you pay - because they are the same.
alittlechild 3 years ago
Dude-- you have been absolutely duped by Boortz and the gang's misrepresentation of the concept of "embedded taxes"-- when you get your paycheck, is money taken out? The wage earner pays his IT and FICA from his salary, AND THIS IS DIFFERENT EFFECTIVE RATES depending on income. You may pay 10% in from salary BUT THE CEO IS PAYING 30% from his salary. So under an FT you keep 10% more, he keeps 30% more, and prices go up 15-30% or more. Please go look at the math, don't fall for the FT/NST scam.
Diskwin 3 years ago
Time for what?? -- the HIGHEST sales tax on earth? You idiots would bitch like stuck pigs under Fairtax.
The worlds HIGHEST sales tax, on YOUR RENT. Its also on gasoline - so federal gas tax would go from 18 cents, to 1.50 gallon you idiots.
It would be the HIGEST sales tax ON EARTH -- and be on your CAR insurance - yes, these idiots are taxing car insurance. And utility bills. And gasoline. And your medical cost. Everything. Its a farce - its nuts
MarkDouglasC 3 years ago
You should learn more about the Fair Tax befor eyou go calling supporters of it Idiots. You already pay taxes on all of those things you just mentioned. Just no one tells you that part of the cost is going back to the business and then mailed to the IRS as tax money.
jboritzki 3 years ago 2
taxes in the form of higher prices".. this is easily shown to be false. CITs are an AFTEREFFECT tax-- profit is made then some is taken as tax. CIT does not effect product pricing-- when was the last time you saw a corporation with a huge profit for the year lower product prices because they made a profit? When companies have a loss, do they jack up prices of their products? Markets and competition are what drive prices/wages/economy.
Diskatopia777 3 years ago
The FT backers position this tax as a "make the wealthy pay their fair share!" in order to lure in clueless middles to cut their own throats, as this tax accomplishes the exact opposite.
The purpose of this tax is to cut Estate, Corporate, Gift, and Capital Gains taxes-- taxes which generally effect mainly the wealthy, and taxes which, if removed, would generally NOT lower the price of goods.
Diskatopia777 3 years ago
Estate taxes do not only impact the weathly. There's a lot of talk in this country about the importance of small business to our economy. But when individually owned businesses, mom and pop operations, and family farms get sold after the owner dies because his/her heirs can't afford to pay the taxes, no one bats an eye. These aren't wealthy socialites, but they still have to pay 50% of the value of the business after the owner dies. Does that sound fair to you?
lalieth 3 years ago 4
This has been flagged as spam show
No "small business" or "mom and pop operation" ever has to pay 50% of the total value of the business. Ever. This is a myth fostered by the very, very wealthy folks who want to get rid of Estate Taxes. A "mom and pop" business worth 2-4million$ will usually pay $0 in estate taxes.
See tinyurldotcom /5ahsft
See
Diskwin 3 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Plus the fact that your argument is straw man-- my point is that removing Estate Taxes does not lower product prices in almost any cases.
When Bill Gates dies, if there is no Estate Tax, how much do you think the prices of MicroSoft products will be lowered because his heirs would have no Estate Taxes to pay?
If you answered 0%, you are correct.
Diskwin 3 years ago
Wrong. Anything over $1 mil is taxable at a rate of roughly 50%. Maybe not all that is Federal and it's particularily high in my state, but the fact remains that I was there when my husband's grandmother died and he and his mother had to sell the family farm in pieces.
lalieth 3 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Likew most FT fans you seem to be confusing marginal tax rates with effective tax rates...
1) go to the page I listed and read it to see how you are wrong.
2)"Anything over $1 mil" -- the current base deduction is 2million$, max rate is 45%. So, for example, even with no other trusts and money-protection, a 3million$ single person estate would pay $450,000 if they had no other deductions-- an effective rate of just 15%
3)Estate Tax has nothing to do with prices-- corn would not be cheaper.
Diskwin 3 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
And spekaing of small businesses, the FT/NST hammers small businesses the most. Ask a middle class person who owns a small business to explain why to you.
Diskwin 3 years ago
If I own a company and the Fair tax is implimented and the prices stay the same. I am going to lower my price to sell more than the other guys. they will follow my lead because I will be cutting their profits when I sell more than them.
jboritzki 3 years ago 2
Effective Federal Tax Rates 2007(as estimated by the Congressional Udget Office), FICA/FT/Excise:
1ST Quintile: 5.7%
2nd: 12.3%
3rd: 15.9%
4th: 20%
Top: 26.5%
Top 1% : 30.9%
Even with the prebate, the "Fair" Tax hammers the middle class, not-for-profits, religious groups, and senior citizens living on savings.
Diskatopia 3 years ago
Actually, our current system is the one that hammers the middle class. The Fairtax will essentially save the middle class.
chwparker 3 years ago
Nope. Look at the numbers and try again.
If you want to help the middle classes, you don't do it by raising their taxes 10-25% while lowering the taxes of the top quintile 13-50% or more/
This can be easily seen:
imagine adding 15-30% onto the price of your next fill up at the gas pump-- goodbye "prebate"....
"Fair" Tax is FAIL.
Diskatopia 3 years ago
you dont even know the current tax codes . and you want to take something you dont truley understand? income taxes is tax on wages..thats federal pay you just get outof your agreement with the w4 and keep all your monet....go to losthprizons get educated and stand up for the true law
passitkitdotcom 3 years ago
As with FT fans, chw imagines that everyone against the crackpot "Fair" Tax is IRS... just so people know, I would have a huge tax break under the "Fair" Tax, but it would hammer my middle class friends with a huge tax increase while giving Bill Gates and Donald Trump ginormous tax cuts, so I am against it.
Yes, people SHOULD look at the math, as fans of the FT refuse to do, because it reveals how it would hammer the middles classes while giving the wealthy a huge tax cut.
Diskatopia 3 years ago
Disk -- these morons would bitch more than anyone. I would be laughing -- they would be bitching. They would have to pay the worlds HIGHEST sales tax -- on rent. No one on earth charges sales tax on rent - cept these morons.
Wait till they get the worlds HIGHEST sales tax on their utility bill! ON their car insurance! On their health insurance! On their new HOUSE!
These morons would be screaming like a stuck pig -- cause thats what they would be -- stuck.
MarkDouglasC 3 years ago
myeah, because the rich are not getting a tax cut now, riiiiight
Elasaltaculos 3 years ago
never mind that it is the rich that creates the most jobs.
Elasaltaculos 3 years ago
The "Fair" tax aka National Sales Tax-Inclusive aka "NaSTI" is as insane as the new home to Mike Gravel, the forever-fringe Libertarian Party (you know, that pol party that wants to turn the USA into a radioactive 3rd world nation by doing away with such things as government funding for public education and the Nuclear Regulatory Commission).
The "Fair" Tax is FAIL... so no doubt the LPers will jump on it, if they haven't already.
Diskatopia 3 years ago
Pay rent? Fairtax would put the worlds HIGHEST sales tax on your rent.
Pay car insurance? FT would be worlds HIGHEST sale tax on your car insurance - all your insurance payments.
Pay utility bills? FT is worlds HIGHEST sales tax -- on your utility bill.
Get cancer or other medical problems? FT is worlds highest sales tax on your medical costs.
Want a new house? FT would be worlds highest sale tax on a new home.
Want to pay the worlds HIGHEST sales tax?
Fairtax is 4u.
MarkDouglasC 3 years ago
Another of the many flaws of this hammer-the-middle-classes tax:
There is not "23% of embedded taxes*" in the price of everything you buy. Taking the concept as FT fans define it, we see IT IS AN AVERAGE. Some items may have 35% or more in "embedded taxes" while others may have 5%. Thus an imposition of a 23%i/30%e sales tax throws markets for a loop.
*allowing for the concept of "embedded taxes" to be used... others can explain why this is a false idea with respect to the prices of goods
Diskatopia 3 years ago
Actually most companies go through many of the same routines for producing and selling their goods, and therefore the 22% embedded tax figure (not 23) is a realistic figure that will be eliminated under the Fairtax, allowing the freemarket to drive prices down dramatically.
chwparker 3 years ago
Actually that is not true, as the 23% is an average, as can be seen by HOW the 23% was arrived at, PLUS the simplified computation to get the 23% figure includes removing estate taxes and capital gains taxes, which are NOT a cost of goods sold but an aftereffect of pricing. Removing capital gains taxes and estate taxes does not lower the retail of goods.
Diskatopia 3 years ago
They no longer have to be paid by anyone, neither the business nor the consumer, so they must be factored in as they will no longer exist for anyone. And I have read about the 22% and how it was computed, and the line of taxes on all businesses (which is basically a VAT) goes through much of the same process, just different factories.
chwparker 3 years ago
CHW compute this pal -- the basic principle of Fairtax is that the sales tax will just replace the income tax -- that the amount "will be a wash" in people's paychecks. But because they DEPEND to get 800 billion FROM the government each year, which they CANT get, that alone means the REAL tax rate would be far higher. Plus they are wildly off about the embedded taxes for most companies. They are way off on both basic premesis. They KNOW its bullshit CH, they are fooling your gullible asp
MarkDouglasC 3 years ago
They do not depend on that money from the gov't, that is just what would come from their spending. And it replaces more than the income tax. However, as I've told you before, I don't have time to keep aruging with someone such as yourself who is only lying about the Fairtax to protect his own personal interests (my guess is that you are an IRS or H&R Block employee. I just wanted to reply to a number of your posts to encourage people to research it for themselves, and I think I've done that.
chwparker 3 years ago
CH - Im not IRS -- I loved the idea of a fairtax TILL I READ THE BOOK.
Read the book, and if you have a brain, you can tell its a con job, bullshit, hype.
CH -- the hell they DON'T depend on the government paying itself 800 billion a year. Thats exactly what they do. That's how the get it "down" to 23% on paper. Even 23% sales tax on rent, cancer surgery, car insurance, utiltity bills, is bullshit. But it would be more like 50-70%.
Hell I'm all for it!!!! I think it would be FUN!!
MarkDouglasC 3 years ago
Tell me exactly how a wealthy billionaire living off of capital gains income not paying taxes on that income will lower prices.
Hint: it won't, it will just give him more money to buy more untaxed-under-"Fair"Tax real estate... at the expense of the middle classes.
Diskatopia 3 years ago
we weren't talking about his expenses, we were talking about corporate taxes, which will be eliminated, as well as their cost and ours of compliance. However, I believe the same thing of you as I do Mark (which is posted below), either that or you actually are Mark on a different post. If anyone is reading this, please do your own research before you believe anything that any of us say, as you should know that IRS and tax advice companies, and certain lobbyists want to stop this
chwparker 3 years ago
Nice red herring, but Estate taxes and capital gains taxes wouls also be eliminated, BUT do not lower the price of goods, so prices go UP more than any increase middle class individuals will see in their cash flow.
The math is easy to understand, if fans of the FT would just go look at it.. but they won't, and continue to spout soundbites fed to them by Boortz and the gang.
Diskatopia 3 years ago
Eliminating the Capital Gains Tax lowers a corporation's cost of capital. In reality, CGT is just another layer of Corporate Income Tax.
ajpmathwiz 3 years ago
ch right -- do your own research.
Here is how to research whether the federal government can pay itself a tax. Pay YOURSELF 10,000 dollars a day, write the check, deposit the check,
At the end of the month, see if you have 300,00 dollars to spend.
If you have 300,000 dollars that way, call me, Im going to use your bank.
MarkDouglasC 3 years ago
The "embedded tax" idea was pushed Boortz, maybe invented my Jorgenson, who knows, but I see you bring nothing to the table-- let me guess, you still think the "embedded taxes" don't include personal FIT and FICA employees pay.
Let me know when you have done the math and see how you are being duped by Boortz and the gang.
Diskatopia 3 years ago
Diskatopia -- get this. On Fairtaxgroups -- where "experts" answer questions about FT -- they claim no one in Fairtax even IMPLIED that people will get more money on their paycheck. They claim the employer is supposed to keep the money the employer used to pay the employee for FICA and income tax, and lower prices with it. (Even that wouldn't be enough to lower prices 22%) MOst of these idiots think they would keep all their money, their gross pay. Won't they be surprised!
MarkDouglasC 3 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Its time? Its time for WHAT? For a 40% sales tax on your rent? For a 50% sales tax on your utilities? For a 50% sales tax on your gasoline? A 50% sales tax on your medical cost -- even your car insurance, life insurance and health insurance? A bipartisan presidental commission studied this - and said a sales tax would have to be 57%. PRobably higher -- because people would avoid high tax items, like new houses and cars.
Fairtax is nonsense. They say 23%, but they are lying or stupid
MarkDouglasC 3 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Let Gov Huckabee explain how nursing home and cancer patients can pay a 30% sales tax on their surgery and medical cost. The "sales tax" alone could be 40,000 dollars.
Let Gov Huck explains how all renters will have to pay 30% more for their rent.
Let Gov Huck explain how everyone will have to pay 30% tax on their car insurance, health insurance, utility bills, ect.
Let Gov Huck explain how the military pays 300-400 billion a year in sales tax.
Fairtax is a farce. It really is.
MarkDouglasC 4 years ago
Quote from DenimBlueIndigo:
ATTENTION!!!
MarkDouglasC & MybookDeal & TaxSanity = the same person!
How do I know this? Look at the profiles... same age. Coincidence? How about this:
MarkDouglasC told me in another post that he wrote books. Also notice... he spams all FairTax video's. NOBODY can be that against this unless he has an interest to protect. He's IRS plain and simple. Nice try Mark!
chwparker 3 years ago
I do go to a lot of Farce Tax sites and tell the poor suckers the truth.
This Fairtax crapola is nonsense -- it won't work. They claim they can "make the federal government become a MAJOR taxpayer".
Sure dufus -- just have the GOVERNMENT pay 800 billion in taxes -- TO ITSELF.
You are dumber than dog do.
Of course, they dont put this up front. THey hide this farce -- on page 148 of the Fairtax book. Look it up " The federal government ITSELF will become a MAJOR taxpayer"
MarkDouglasC 3 years ago
They would never notice those taxes, as they would come back to them after the government's already dangerous habits of over spending (which is beyond the scope of taxes). But the 360 million people that will be paying into the tax system will be paying far more than that in taxes.
chwparker 3 years ago
Hopefully at this point one or two fans out there are starting to think, starting to analyze the idea of supposed "embedded tax costs" and why it was created by Boortz et al.
One step is realizing that FIT and FICA and matching FICA are, in reality, wage and labor costs for comapanies, and that the amounts are different %ages of COGS for different companies, understanding that 23% is just an average--
when you start thinking about it in this way...
(continued)
Diskatopia 4 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
you start to see the reason WHY the backers want most people to think about it as 23% average rather than what it really is (different for every company): in this way people who only have 0-15% of their wages paid in as taxes won't question how a 23% FT rate is obviously worse for them, because they are made to think that they are paying 23% in everytrhing they buy... when clearly they are not, THOSE AMOUNTS ARE FROM OTHER FOLKS WAGES, and are a business WAGES/LABOR cost, not "embedded taxes."
Diskatopia 4 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
A simple way to see this is to realize that you cannot claim you pay income taxes AND 23% embedded tax costs in everything you buy, as OTHERS claiming the same thing about supposed "embedded taxes" from YOUR employer leads to all the tax revenue being counted TWICE, by the person whose wages the taxes came from AND by those buying the product with the supposed "emb. taxes."
These supposed "embedded taxes" (an average)can be analyzed in a general way, but cannot be applied to the individual.
Diskatopia 4 years ago
Wrong, EVERY good or service you consume has its cost inflated by the embedded costs of Federal taxation in its current state. The current rate of embedded taxes in EVERY good or service is 25% not 23%. Gets your facts straight buddy :)
DadsForFairTax 4 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Gee, it's NOT 22-23%? I guess Boortz better get HIS facts straight:
"We write in The FairTax Book that the competitive pressures of the marketplace will force prices down when embedded taxes disappear from the cost of retail goods (edit) Does this 22% include the income and payroll taxes that are paid by employees? Yes, it does." Boortz
tinyurl dot com slash ytvthg
Diskatopia 4 years ago
Ha Diskatopia you blew it. You prove you know nothing about the FairTax with "...and why it was created by Boortz et al." Try and debate the FairTax on its merits instead making stuff up, ok?
DadsForFairTax 4 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
The "embedded tax" idea was pushed Boortz, maybe invented my Jorgenson, who knows, but I see you bring nothing to the table-- let me guess, you still think the "embedded taxes" don't include personal FIT and FICA employees pay.
Let me know when you have done the math and see how you are being duped by Boortz and the gang.
Diskatopia 4 years ago
Is the FT/NST "progressive" or "regressive"? Here is the quote from one of the Beacon Hill treatises on the AFT site:
"The key result of the foregoing discussion is that it matters fundamentally how one frames the discussion of the distributional effects of the FairTax. When people are sorted by expenditure per capita, the FairTax is progressive; when they are sorted by income per capita, it is regressive."
Those who undertand what this means now understand what a bad idea the FT/NST is.
Diskatopia 4 years ago
A Progressive tax is social engineering, trying to change peoples behavior though excessive taxation and/or pure wealth re-distribution. Your starting to sound like a socialist or communist here Diskatopia.
DadsForFairTax 4 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
On and on with ad hominem attacks, never posting any facts-- you are definitely a "Fair"Tax dupe, lolFAIL.
Diskatopia 4 years ago
The FT/NST is often pushed, as in this video, with the idea that "you can control how much you pay in taxes," so llet's look at this claim.
Who can most easily avoid taxes by buying very expensive "used' real estate, or "used factories" or castles in Germany? The very wealthy, of course. Clearly the wealthy will pay less in taxes under an FT-- mathematicaly they automatically get at least an 11% rate reduction (26 v. 23%). Where is this money made up to keep the tax revenue neutral?
(continued
Diskatopia 4 years ago
Clearly the FT "reveneue neutral" rate is mandated by consumption, and supporters state that consumption rates are steadier than income. So evewn if consumption is steady, and the wealthy consume exactly the same under the FT/NST, where do the taxes needed to make up their lower rates (again, 23 v. 23%)?
Looking at the current total effective tax rates of the middle classes, we see that the taxes are made up by them-- because 23% is greater than 10-21%.
(continued)
Diskatopia 4 years ago
SO what happens if all classes start legally avoiding the tax (saving more, buying "used") and consumption starts to drop? Clearly, to remain "revenue neutral" the rate would have to be increased. And as the rate is increased, the all classes try to avoid more... but which class can avoid the most, which class has the most disposable income? Clearly, the wealthy. Clearly, the middle classes bear the burden of much of the tax avoidance the wealthy partake of.
Diskatopia 4 years ago
Corr: 26 v 23%
Diskatopia 4 years ago
A BLATANT lie in the video:
"23% is less than most people pay today in Federal Taxes"
This is absolutley not true.
The total effective Federal Tax rate of most people is well below 23%, as Congressional BUdget Office numbers show at
cbo dot gov
tinyurl dot com slash 2fh5qa
In fact ONLY the highest quintile's current eff. tax rate is higher than 23%, at 26%.
Diskatopia 4 years ago
No, the video had payroll and income tax included, not just income. And that's of course the cash register rate not counting the prebate.
fairtaxhtown 4 years ago
NO, if we are talking about the same spot, the video had the MARGINAL rate and FICA rather than the EFFECTIVE, ACTUAL total rate vs. income -- and both FIT and FICA are included in the percentages in the table at cbo dot gov .
Diskatopia 4 years ago
This is another favorite sleight-of-hand of FT videos and sites-- comparing current marginal rates and brackets (ignoring what people TRULY pay, effective rate), pre-deductions, EIC, etc., with the FT/NST.
They seem to do this because they think those reading/watching are too ignorant to see the trick. Maybe they don't want people to consider effective rates either now or under FT/NST, because they, laughably, claim the effective rate for "billionaires" will be 23% under FT/NST.
Diskatopia 4 years ago
Here you to start to show your true colors. You are one of those "hate the rich" types and your class envy is showing through. My guess is that you perceive the current tax code as a legitimate means to 'redistribute' wealth to address inequities? If so then stop beating around the bush and lying about the FairTax.
DadsForFairTax 4 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Let me know when you have even ONE fact to attack any fact I have posted here.
Go look at the math and then get back to us when you see your mistaken assumptions, which are being fostered by Boortz et al.
Diskatopia 4 years ago