Obamacare was signed on March 2010 with 59% of the people disapproving according to a CNN poll. The CBO scored Obamacare on six years of coverage for 10 years of taxes, which is how the CBO showed the bill to be deficit neutral . It’s unconstitutional mandating all citizens to purchase health care. Even Pelosi said, “We have to pass the bill, so you can find out what is in it.” watch?v=KoE1R-xH5To It’s also meant to take over industry watch?v=p-bY92mcOdk
From the Census Bureau 2010, I received in the mail the following: A letter telling me I was going to receive the 2010; a postcard asking if I need help with the 2010; the actual 2010 form itself; two additional postcards reminding me to return my 2010 by April 1. This is such an obvious waste of money it is staggering. How can you expect me to trust the Fed Gov to take over managing the Budget on Health Care Reform? Answer: I can't trust the Gov with my piggy bank much less the HC Budget.
Why is the Central bank screwed up? Because it's run by the government. Anyone been to the DMV or any government office lately? WOW, how smooth and customer service oriented was that?
Why all the focus on Insurance companies? They do not set the prices of health services, the providers do. All the insurance company does is pay the claims. I will agree, some companies will cherry pick policy holders in order to limit their risk. Wellmark in Iowa reported a few weeks ago, they paid out 94% and change from revenues to cover claims. The money to cover those claims has to come from somewhere.
Wrong, I have many friends who already draw from SSI and their just fine. It's the younger generation that we have to worry about. It's going to be reworked anyway so you don't know what your talking about.
Monopolies have never been allowed to proser here. The Bell phone company was broken up back in the 70's just for that reason, to encourage more competition. The ins. compamies are becomming monopolies too. That's why we should have had a public option or if I had my way we would have gone Universal healthcare
That our healthcare system is broken and it's due to the ins. companies not being regulated. Have you gotten a rate hyke yet? There a millions of people who can no longer pay for ins. and they work every day. The care their getting is crazy when your ins. co. won't pay for somthing you need, plus the pre-existing condition clause has to be taken out. It;s inhuman.
article 1 sec 8:The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States; on my check stub it shows "so sec tax", medicare tax, fed inc tax, state tax. The key legal word is TAX.. And note taxation can be use for general welfare of the United States or its citizens.
I looked on my check stub. On it is "so sec tax", medicare tax, fed inc tax, state tax. And he is something frome the Constitution: The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;
and why is social security unconstitutional? congress can collect taxes. why is health reform unconstitutional? congress can regulate commerce across state lines. I am trying to understand your premise, are these programs unconstitutional or too expensive?
you seem like an intelligent person, so let's just agree to disagree. you see the government as something separate from yourself, i see government as extension of my will to educate our citizens, take care of seniors and veterans, invest in local areas to encourage economic growth, create a clean and safe environment, establish law enforcement and courts to enforce law, common defense and yes a safety net if i lose my job or health insurance because i pay taxes and i vote
a safety net, because before wwii seniors made up the highest class of those in poverty, they often died alone in extreme pain due to lack of access to quality care and income. so calling a program that reduced poverty among seniors and allow them to live and die with some dignity, a well intentioned govt program, misses the point. And if i have to tell you what the point is than you would not believe me if i told you.
$1400 a month IS approximately the real cost for a basic family plan in many areas, but I also know that four individual plans could cost much less. It didnt make sense to me at first either.
Id also agree with you that the insurance rates are most likely going to go up and that someone starting a new business might not be able to afford it.
Well, what the dems don't want is a healthcare bill with nothing but dems voting for it. When or if that were to happen then the dems will own govt run healthcare and for generations after republicans can point to it when (not if) it turns into a disaster to show how this one party has wrecked healthcare for ALL. So, it remains to be seen if the dems have to balls to go thru with this without "bipartisian" cover so that both partys could then be faulted for wrecking healthcare for all.
More than eight in 10 Americans questioned in a CNN/Opinion Research Corp. survey said they're satisfied with the quality of health care they receive.
And nearly three out of four said they're happy with their overall health care coverage. What most complained about was cost. Insurance companies can not compete across state lines. Why not ? Because they lobby to set up monopolies in those states. Dems and Repubs are corrupt. They can fix this without a government take over if they want.
Okay, you are correct, for a family plan for four $1400 is about right. At least you see what most people don't, How much health care really costs. Most people only pay a portion of that cost, and the rest is covered by the employer, who adds it to the cost of the products they produce. Out of sight out of mind. Have you looked at pricing your insurance as four individual plans? The total potential deductibles would be higher, but you might save overall.
@texytam42 - actually the majority of the people want them to start over. Forget that "the majority" of people voted for obama. This is not an election.
texytam42 just gave you a great answer. It have nothing to do with medical conditions. By extending ins. to all the pool is enornous and your premiums go way down. Everyone desevse this. Also under the medical conditions are only reserve for the people you like you and me. Small pools.
In my opinion, health insurance should be voluntary. On the day the government tells me I MUST pay for someone elses medical bills, I really believe that prices will go up.
In 2008 we had a vote. Obama, along with his policy of THIS specific Healthcare reform he's offering & overall agenda were ELECTED BY THE MAJORITY OF PEOPLE.
Guess you forgot that elections means things. If you don't like it. There's the door ace...
@Bolgernow - here's a fact check for you. Obama was voted in, but his proposals were not made public. People now decided they don't want his proposal. Especially when his own party could had a majority, and special deals were made. If YOU don't like it, don't let reality hit you when you cross paths on YOUR way out the door.
After a summer of big insurance $ thrown out solely to confuse
FiveThirtyEight reviewed public support for the "public option", in June 09. The poll results varied between 40% to 83% in support of a government-provided insurance option, with most of the sampled polls showing between 65% and 76% support. NY Times/CBS News poll in June 2009 found that Americans overwhelmingly support substantial changes to the health care system & strongly behind a government-run insurance plan
Great -they used it before for Government WASTE programs and now they are going to do it again. People you don't get it. The rich don't give a damn if this passes, they will still have the money to get things done. The poor and middle class will pick up the tab and ALL your monthly fees and taxes will skyrocket. Yes you won't be able to do anything BUT go to the doctor.
"I support paying more taxes if my American Brothers and Sisters who are poor cannot afford health care because I'm a true American Patriot."
- Brothers and Sisters??? And let me guess -- Obama is out father. You aren't a patriot, you're a fucking communist traitor who supports forcing people into this corrupt health care system.
I support paying more taxes if my American Brothers and Sisters who are poor cannot afford health care because I'm a true American Patriot. I care about them.
It seems no Republicans care about fellow Americans or their President. They only care about themselves and money.
I don't object to paying a bit more in taxes if it means all people will have health care.
And our founders on situations such as this only required a 50% vote & Bush used reconciliation to get what he wanted -- huge tax cuts for the wealthiest 5% in time of war which nearly bankrupted our country.
I actually like this bill now. The idea of small business and individuals gathering their purchasing power is great. A lot of the Republican ideas are in this bill as well... Hell this bill may as well be a Republican package... 95% are Republican ideas. The only thing Democrat about it is "hey lets take these ideas and not just apply them to small business but to individuals as well."
Come on. How can Republicans not vote for their own ideas.
Actually, the US currently pays the most in healthcare spending in the world. We spend 17% of our GDP and yet we are the only industrialized country w/o a universal system. In fact 700,000 ppl(mostly in MiddClass since no1 cares about the poor) go bankrupt due to healthcare bills a yr in the US. In Germany, France, Japan, and the UK combined... ZERO. I understand if you don't like the bills, but higher costs when we are ranked #37 in healthcare seems kinda backwards to me.
However, we are ranked #1 in Quality of Service, Patient Satisfaction, and Shortest Wait Times as a result of our free-market healthcare system... Just something to think about
Silveracity, you guys keep thinking the health market is like wide-screen TVs. It is not a classic market in any sense. Trust me - the demand for appendectomies is not going to go through the roof if health care is more affordable. We're not going to have to put 2,000 more oncologists on staff because everyone decides they really want to have surgery and chemo for lymphoma. The truth is that early, and interventionist medicine actually reduces the load.
You're right that it's not like the consumer market, but it is like the service and maintenance market.
If seeing a doctor is free then more people will do it, that is why we have had to put rates on doctors visits. Otherwise anyone with a cold wants to see their doctor.
The biggest problem in health care is the thrid payer system, that is true in all the west. It doesn't really matter if it is government or private who makes these kinds of decissions, though private is prefered
Visfan, honest, no other "service" industry compares with waking up at three in the morning with a burst appendix. And you actually want people to see the doctor more frequently - in the long run, a diabetic who has good, frequent access to medical care is going to be less of a burden on the system. And in spite of the imagined cost of doctors, most of Europe manages to provide 50% more doctors (around 3.5/1k population vs. our 2.3/1k) and do it far cheaper.
Then he has every incentive to regulate his own behaviour, there is no reason to centrally plan it. The price system and the inherit incentives within it will sort things out far better than any form of government beurocracy ever could.
The numbers of doctors doesn't reflect the accesability to care, because these systems are so inefficient, my country - Sweden, with more doctors per capita than any other country manages to still have a shortage of doctors.
Of course the system in the US needs to change, but the problem today is not too little government, it is too much.
Look at the ridiculous state regulations on insurers that work as hidden taxes to increase the cost of insurance. Why would a man need protection from cervical cancer? Why would anyone want massages in their health care plan? It's become a cash cow for interest groups do lobby politicans to force their services into use.
Sponaneous organization from bottom to top is better.
Noooo, the more people in a pool the less the cost. That's why all gov't employees, thousands of them have very low premiums. If you have a company with only ten people the pool is to small to negotiate for a better product. Didn't you know that?
The fact that reconciliation was talked about prior to the summit and the bipartisan dog and pony show Obama gave us, or the fact that reconciliation was used in the past for budgetary items. MSNBC, lets just forget the other pesky fact and what is not valid, is that using reconciliation like this has never been done. It has never been used to create an entirely new and substantive program using the reconciliation process.
Screw you, I suppose next you'll tell me COBRA lasts forever and is affordable.
COBRA is not forced on people , you can pay out the nose to keep your existing coverage or you can pass. And COBRA amends the Employee Retirement Income Security Act. Not a major piece of legislation.
COBRA was a stop gap measure to help people who want to pay full rates for thier existing coverage without any cost taken by your employeer.
Looks like you're plugged into the Obama news network.
@makeinstall you obviously don't have a pre extistence condition, because if you did then you would know to have a gap in coverage can be life threatening because all major insurance companies will refuse to cover anything relating to that for the 1st year you start your new job. COBRA for Americans like myself is the most important bill they have. you just can't get insurance on your own, i have tried, they told me flat out no. i have congential heart failure. alive today cause military dad
@loon0493 well... I'm not saying people don't deserve care but democrats keep using the comparison to car insurance... well turning it back on them, if you get into too many wrecks and get tickets a lot , they can deny you coverage and raise your rates and yet we find no problem with this.. you have to take into account the insurance company is making a bet with you. Based on your current health, both you and the insurance company are betting you won't get sick but just in case you do..
may i advise you to read my comment again. when you congential heart failure it does not get better. Health insurance already know off the bat that i will be going to the doctor regularly, they already know i will have operations every 3-5 years for the rest of my life. So are you saying health insurance companies should have the option to drop me?
What is a company supposed to do if they are paying out more for a client than taking in from the client? Just make a small public option for those that have the problem such as yours.
actually i love my rachel maddow, but what do you think will happen if an insurance company drops you? Yes they will let you die because profit is more important than life( In the words of machevilli a man will forgive a prince for killing his father, but will hate and avenge himself if you steal his land) In such a case you would probably have to get whatever free care you could get. Which means the taxpayer would be paying for your care. Get it? This is the current system.
No conservative will tell you, you should not get healthcare for a preexisting condition.
Obama's healthcare could address people in your situation but the current version goes to far and adds costs where it should regulate. It also mandates coverage or someone like me who is healthy.
Your Fathers Tricare Ins covers 9.2 million and costs us 42.1 Billion a year (2008) and is a special/expensive and well deserved healthcare insurance for veterans.
WWI, it's extension WWII, & its' extension The Cold War. All 3 men died fighting the same thing, leftist lunatics hell bent on tyrannical domination of the lives of others.
The Cold War was by no means a world war. Simply comparing the numbers of deaths from the two world wars demonstrate otherwise. Although you seem to rewrite history to meet your own political ends, you should realize that our opponents in both world wars were conservatives, reactionaries, and anti-communists. Read a few history books.
Hey jackoff, the rest of the world that lived through the terrors of the Soviet expansion years dis agree with you ignorant perception. As far as reading history books, if you started now I doubt you could read all my history books before you die.
In all your history books, can you name a single reputable historian who defines the Cold War as WWIII? Thought not, and history will not remember it that way.
Furthermore, my history degree and sizable collection of books (about six tons in weight) are at least as accurate as yours, and my history books -- written by professional scholars or actual participants -- support my contentions.
@demonpreyer Would all of your oversimplifications be proven wrong if there were space for proper examination ? FACT. Yes Stick with FOX . you're better off there. FACT. Yes
"Every other OECD nation but us has citizens who live longer, healthier lives and pay far less than we do for health care."
That is because fewer people die in car accidents, wars, and people make healthier choices. None of that has to do with healthcare. It is so cheap because the government sets arbitrary limits on what things cost, and we have to pick up the slack. Health insurance companies, according to the AP, make a 2.2% profit margin, compared to Microsoft at 33%.
Oh dear, xp - you, like your O/S namesake, are so fail. Healthier choices? You mean like the French, over 40% of whom smoke at least a pack a day, consume more alcohol than us, and have dietary preferences that would give a cardiologist cold sweats? France is also very close to us in auto fatalities, at 13.8/100k vs our 15.8/100k. And wars? Really? Wars? Let's contrast the less than 5k soldiers in the last decade with 45k dying of no insurance, and thousands more due to denials and stalling.
Oh, and your "profit" argument is also specious. If you knew jack about business, you'd know that William McGuire's $110 million salary at United Health comes out of the "profit". Then you get to knock down your profit even more with stock options (hey, it's like printing money). Deduct a few hundred million more for lobbyists and PAC contributions, wipe out a little more for failed doctors on staff to rubber-stamp denials, and pretty soon, it looks like you have no "profit".
As for life expectancy, it is not how many die, but at what age. Young men, about 18-21 die and that brings the life expectancy down. My point is that other variables confound healthcare's impact on life expectancy, so you can't say that their healthcare is better if they live longer.
As for profits, compare that to all the government waste, fraud, and abuse. If insurance companies had to compete across state lines, they would have to lower prices and become more efficient to survive.
No, actually, it gets worse. That's what happened with banks and credit cards. They let them sell across state lines without having to deal with the regulations of different states. So they all incorporated in the states that allowed them to charge whatever they wanted and you ended up with huge fees and triple the interest rates in a race to the bottom.
Banks are very heavily regulated, and we have a central bank, which makes things worse.
Credit cards are voluntary. You don't need one, and even if you do have one, if you pay your bills on time, you don't have to worry about interest. 25 years ago, it was much harder to get a credit card than it is today.
Banks are not as heavily regulated and their credit card business was basically deregulated. It is not voluntary because in order to rent a car or stay at a hotel now you need a credit card, and paying on time won't save you from the crazy fees they have been dreaming up. I think it was better back when it was harder to get credit so that people who didn't deserve it wouldn't make it more expensive for everyone, but that was also when the banks couldn't make it more expensive for everyone.
You can still pay in cash or check for services. It is to the advantage of the business to do so. Credit Card companies charge businesses a fee for every transaction, which doesn't happen with cash. Besides, if they say you have to pay with a credit card, they are rejecting the business of everyone who does not have one, which is stupid on their part because they make less money.
By the way, I agree that our central bank makes things worse. I think you need some kind of central banking facility, but our Fed is majorly screwed up. Why is it screwed up? Because the banks run it.
I do not want the insurance companies getting even more powerful because they will use that power to screw us over, capture their regulators and steal from our economy just like the banks have done. Power corrupts. The founding fathers believed in balances for power for good reason.
Every other OECD country is moving towards more private care.
The problem in the US is pricing, the level of quality is the best in the world.
The NHS is a disaster, and what is worse is that as the third largest employer behind the chinese and north korean armies it is impossible to do anything about it.
Proftis is not the problem, the problem is that these companies have such vast mandates that it has become a state regulated utility. There's regulations in some states for massages...
As George Washington said, "As Mankind becomes more liberal, they will be more apt to allow that all those who conduct themselves as worthy members of the community are equally entitled to the protections of civil government. I hope ever to see America among the foremost nations of justice and liberality."
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The dems will pass this next week & then the real revolution will begin. SO far the Tea Parties have been peaceful. That could all change dramatically.
Impeach Obama, Pelosi & Reid before they completely destroy America.
No more public servants that refuse to identify themselves. And give them all piss tests.
An observation? Well maybe you should observe better. Every industrialized nation (Except us) has a form of Govt health care. And all of them rank ahead of us in health care services and satisfaction. I have been to the U.K and Japan. Their Health care is 10x better then ours. And don't mix the founding fathers into this. We can debate till were blue over whom the founding fathers would side with.
And do you know why it is broke ? Because health care company denies coverage to risky people who ends up in bankrupcy because of healthcare cost and end up in medicare or medicaid system... Dumbass...
medicare is not broke. Its projected to go in the red because BUSH passed medicare part D where the government PAYS private insurance $1.15 to cover the SAME THINGS regular medicare already covers for less than $1.00
The Medicare system itself works and is very efficient. BUSH and CONSERVATIVE FUCKED UP MEDICARE
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It's broke. And out of about 15 doctors I know personally none of them want to take patients with it because it take so long to collect just part of their money from the govt, which is also broke. Doctors that are in good areas stay away from it if they can, but they won't be allowed to under this tyrannical commie plan.
@MrHelldogger [from LATimes 2/23/10]: California's largest for-profit health insurer violated state law more than 700 times over a three-year period by failing to pay medical claims on time and misrepresenting policy provisions to customers, the state's insurance commissioner said Monday. ... Nearly 40% of the violations in the Anthem case, 277, stem from allegations that the company failed to pay patient claims within 30 days as required by state law, officials said.
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So What!?!? Go fuck with them & leave the rest of us alone. Don't put me in jail because of what crooks do. And be careful what you read in the LA Times. They have a leftist political agenda.
@MrHelldogger: Here's what: You mentioned "it take so long to collect" from the govt, but you don't care that private insurers delay payment?
What is the leftist agenda of the LA Times? Can you accurately describe this agenda and cite objective sources? And, please, respond without profanity or name-calling.
Be careful what you watch on FOX. They have a far right-wing political agenda. :)
How can you pay cover something for less than what it's worth? Fact is Medicare and Medicaid pay $0.80 on the dollar, leaving 20% of the cost to be distributed amongst private healthcare consumers. If that $0.15 increase did ANYTHING it would offset private consumer costs by 15%
@njcarlos1 The whole billing system is kind of a scam when you add the uninsured. What is the real cost with an insured customer?
Write offs deductions reimbursement, a tangled mess with the possibility of cooked books with an unethical provider. Most are not but a stupid system.
Please describe what liberties do you expect to lose by healthcare reform. Also explain why the people of Western Europe receive excellent government healthcare and remain just as free as you are.
Also, do you know that Patrick Henry also rejected the Constitution, viewing it as a threat to his liberties. Was that an extreme thing to believe?
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17% of my pay check
My right to buy my own medical ins.
My freedom(jail) if I don't buy theres
My right to eat , drink, comsume what I want to The list goes on you dumbass. Don't you get it. When they determine your health they determine your life. But you are too selfish, inconsiderate, greey & envious to give a shit about my freedom or yours' either. Go to fucking work & get your own Get on a union contract and get your insurance through your contract. Quit picking other peoples' pockets
We did not have a great economy until the Democrats took over. Clinton left Bush with the largest surplus in US history. By the time Democrats won Congress, Bush and his Republican Congress turned that surplus into the largest deficit in US history. (continued)
That's a God Damn lie. Who was running the house you lieing piece of commie shit? I guess they didn't tell you here in America Congress appropriates fund & is responsible for the budget. THe president simply approves or disapproves. Clinton was a lame duck president after his 1st off year election.
While appropriations bills must indeed be introduced in the House, but they begin working will a budget introduced by Congress. And the president has considerable power over spending which involves the executive branch -- this includes foreign affairs, military spending, law enforcement, administrative law, and so on. If Clinton could leave us with a massive surplus even with a GOP Congress, how did Bush turn it into a huge deficit with a GOP congress? (continued)
I am amused by your accusing me of being "lieing [sic] piece of commie shit." Is this the way you always respond to someone who injects reality into deluded image of the world?
An internal review reviled that the FBI routinely used exigent letters alleging false terrorism emergencies to illegally collect the phone records of Americans for four years of the Bush administration. The names of the thousands of innocent Americans subjected to 4th Amendment violations were not given, but several have filed suit against telephone companies that enabled this illegal practice. (continued)
Just because a war is popular does not make it just. The US waged war on all the Native American peoples, and all these conflicts proved popular. Do you think it was just to wage almost genocidal on Indians because it was popular? Lincoln, America's greatest president, nearly destroyed his political career by opposing the very popular Mexican War. He chose to be just instead of popular. (continued)
There were only two world wars in the 20th-century and torture is not a factor in winning either of them. Intelligence (not to mention the Soviet crushing the Heer) played a major role in WWII. We gained most of our intelligence from German sources, our allies, and from partisans inside occupied countries. They turned to us mainly because the Germans employed the very unamerican practices you would have us adopt. (continued)
As for Obama calling his grandmother "a typical white woman," my mother and both of my grandmothers were "typical white women." I am a "typical white man." Where is your complaint?
As to your list of lost rights, you would be paying lower taxes if we reformed healthcare. Nowhere does the healthcare bills under proposal prevent you from buying your own healthcare. You will not be imprisoned for not having healthcare (
No government agent will inspect your diet. You can continue to eat Twinkies
You claim, "When they determine your health they determine your life." Do you believe that your private insurance company determines your life?
As to being "selfish, inconsiderate, greey [sic] & envious," I would list these as the qualities of an individual indifferent to the millions who die from lack of healthcare.
I'm sorry you disapprove of my not working, but that is not your concern. As for my insurance, I am well covered thanks to the state of Illinois. The government pays for it.
YES! IMPEACH OBAMA! He caused the greatest financial meltdown since the 20s...oh wait, that was the last guy. Well, oh, I know...Obama took over liberties away with the Patriot Act!!! Uh...wait, that was the other guy. Ok, ok...I've got it now! He started 2 illegal wars AND gave the ok for water boarding...Oh..never mind, that was still the other guy....This sucks :( Let's just say he's a secret muslim and he hates White people, even though his mother and grandparents are White. Ding!
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We had a great economy till Pelosi & Reid took over, Name me 1 innocent American that had their liberty taken away from the Patriot Act, there's not 2 wars there is only 1 approved of by 80% of the people at the time, what you call torture helped us win 3 world wars in the 20th century & Oblabla called his grandmother a "typycal white woman". ding! dong!
@MrHelldogger: "what you call torture helped us win 3 world wars" REALLY? You do realize that we tried, convicted, and executed Japanese soldiers for waterboarding American soldiers, right? Historical facts are not on your side here.
Oh please you people are not going to do anything. This "revolution" you speak of is just like the race war the Aryan Brotherhood always says is coming. Its not going to happen STFU.
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Yeah, your right. Go back to the park & you & your boyfriend smoke another joint, find another trick & don't worry about it. How's the weather down at the social services office today anyway. Always the same, uh?
msnbc is owned by GE and GE is a major political contributer to obamas campaign that is standing to make trillions off global warming legislation yalk about fascism you stupid dumb filthy cunt
savior02, I'll assume from your utter illiteracy that you're not a big fan of reading - or facts. Let me guess - you're probably a "birther" and a climate change denier also.
Ask yourself a question, though, and it's not a hard question, since it's clear you don't deal with hard issues very well. How the hell is every other OECD nation living longer, healthier lives than us, while paying half or less what we pay for health care?
OBAMA CARE IS AN ATTACK ON OUR LIBERTIES!! IT MANDATES EVERYONE TO BUY HEALTH CARE IF NOT A 3 THOUSAND FINE WILL BE ISSUED PER YEAR! WE SHOULD HAVE THE RIGHT TO CHOOSE WHETHER WE WANT IT OR NOT MR DICTATOR! FUCK YOU IMPEACH THE OBAMA PELOSI REID MACHINE NOWw!!!
Obamacare was signed on March 2010 with 59% of the people disapproving according to a CNN poll. The CBO scored Obamacare on six years of coverage for 10 years of taxes, which is how the CBO showed the bill to be deficit neutral . It’s unconstitutional mandating all citizens to purchase health care. Even Pelosi said, “We have to pass the bill, so you can find out what is in it.” watch?v=KoE1R-xH5To It’s also meant to take over industry watch?v=p-bY92mcOdk
Allen West 2012
Gothikification 1 year ago
MSNBC is an evil sister of Fox News.. ran by Zionist aka people with evil agendas.
sirajrizvi 1 year ago
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From the Census Bureau 2010, I received in the mail the following: A letter telling me I was going to receive the 2010; a postcard asking if I need help with the 2010; the actual 2010 form itself; two additional postcards reminding me to return my 2010 by April 1. This is such an obvious waste of money it is staggering. How can you expect me to trust the Fed Gov to take over managing the Budget on Health Care Reform? Answer: I can't trust the Gov with my piggy bank much less the HC Budget.
chiggerno19 1 year ago
Why is the Central bank screwed up? Because it's run by the government. Anyone been to the DMV or any government office lately? WOW, how smooth and customer service oriented was that?
flobrew 2 years ago
Why all the focus on Insurance companies? They do not set the prices of health services, the providers do. All the insurance company does is pay the claims. I will agree, some companies will cherry pick policy holders in order to limit their risk. Wellmark in Iowa reported a few weeks ago, they paid out 94% and change from revenues to cover claims. The money to cover those claims has to come from somewhere.
otef434 2 years ago
Wrong, I have many friends who already draw from SSI and their just fine. It's the younger generation that we have to worry about. It's going to be reworked anyway so you don't know what your talking about.
Fringe111 2 years ago
One reason that it's going to go bankcrupt in a few years is that the baby boomer generation is getting to that age and there are alot of us.
The gov't knew about our number for years. This will be adjusted for the future
Fringe111 2 years ago
Monopolies have never been allowed to proser here. The Bell phone company was broken up back in the 70's just for that reason, to encourage more competition. The ins. compamies are becomming monopolies too. That's why we should have had a public option or if I had my way we would have gone Universal healthcare
Fringe111 2 years ago
That our healthcare system is broken and it's due to the ins. companies not being regulated. Have you gotten a rate hyke yet? There a millions of people who can no longer pay for ins. and they work every day. The care their getting is crazy when your ins. co. won't pay for somthing you need, plus the pre-existing condition clause has to be taken out. It;s inhuman.
Fringe111 2 years ago
article 1 sec 8:The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States; on my check stub it shows "so sec tax", medicare tax, fed inc tax, state tax. The key legal word is TAX.. And note taxation can be use for general welfare of the United States or its citizens.
loon0493 2 years ago
I looked on my check stub. On it is "so sec tax", medicare tax, fed inc tax, state tax. And he is something frome the Constitution: The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;
loon0493 2 years ago
and why is social security unconstitutional? congress can collect taxes. why is health reform unconstitutional? congress can regulate commerce across state lines. I am trying to understand your premise, are these programs unconstitutional or too expensive?
loon0493 2 years ago
you seem like an intelligent person, so let's just agree to disagree. you see the government as something separate from yourself, i see government as extension of my will to educate our citizens, take care of seniors and veterans, invest in local areas to encourage economic growth, create a clean and safe environment, establish law enforcement and courts to enforce law, common defense and yes a safety net if i lose my job or health insurance because i pay taxes and i vote
loon0493 2 years ago
a safety net, because before wwii seniors made up the highest class of those in poverty, they often died alone in extreme pain due to lack of access to quality care and income. so calling a program that reduced poverty among seniors and allow them to live and die with some dignity, a well intentioned govt program, misses the point. And if i have to tell you what the point is than you would not believe me if i told you.
loon0493 2 years ago
Hey you're already paying into the Social Security fund every time you get a paycheck.
Fringe111 2 years ago
what do you think social security is?
loon0493 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
the entire republican party is grounded in lies and the fact that most americans forget those lies in a short amount of time
britzman1 2 years ago
Comment removed
britzman1 2 years ago
MSNBC gets the second point wrong, has it been used for changing 17% of the economy before?
No, it has not.
They do get the first one right though.
This is the problem with the media trying to be bi-partisan, they become partisan against the truth. Same was true during Bush with torture.
Visfen 2 years ago
$1400 a month IS approximately the real cost for a basic family plan in many areas, but I also know that four individual plans could cost much less. It didnt make sense to me at first either.
Id also agree with you that the insurance rates are most likely going to go up and that someone starting a new business might not be able to afford it.
Silveracity 2 years ago
Geez, where's the Shell Answer Man when you need him?
radstorm 2 years ago
Well, what the dems don't want is a healthcare bill with nothing but dems voting for it. When or if that were to happen then the dems will own govt run healthcare and for generations after republicans can point to it when (not if) it turns into a disaster to show how this one party has wrecked healthcare for ALL. So, it remains to be seen if the dems have to balls to go thru with this without "bipartisian" cover so that both partys could then be faulted for wrecking healthcare for all.
aSingleDallasGuy 2 years ago
More than eight in 10 Americans questioned in a CNN/Opinion Research Corp. survey said they're satisfied with the quality of health care they receive.
And nearly three out of four said they're happy with their overall health care coverage. What most complained about was cost. Insurance companies can not compete across state lines. Why not ? Because they lobby to set up monopolies in those states. Dems and Repubs are corrupt. They can fix this without a government take over if they want.
fuzzybekool 2 years ago
Okay, you are correct, for a family plan for four $1400 is about right. At least you see what most people don't, How much health care really costs. Most people only pay a portion of that cost, and the rest is covered by the employer, who adds it to the cost of the products they produce. Out of sight out of mind. Have you looked at pricing your insurance as four individual plans? The total potential deductibles would be higher, but you might save overall.
Silveracity 2 years ago
@texytam42 - actually the majority of the people want them to start over. Forget that "the majority" of people voted for obama. This is not an election.
veriteez 2 years ago
$1400 for one person?
How many chronic pre existing medical conditions could you possibly have
Silveracity 2 years ago
texytam42 just gave you a great answer. It have nothing to do with medical conditions. By extending ins. to all the pool is enornous and your premiums go way down. Everyone desevse this. Also under the medical conditions are only reserve for the people you like you and me. Small pools.
Fringe111 2 years ago
In my opinion, health insurance should be voluntary. On the day the government tells me I MUST pay for someone elses medical bills, I really believe that prices will go up.
Silveracity 2 years ago
If the democrats do this they will be out in November!!!
PatricksTime 2 years ago
@PatricksTime - ya got that right!
veriteez 2 years ago
Hey Norah, here's a fact-check for you....THE MAJORITY OF THE PEOPLE, THAT INCLUDES TAX-PAYERS, DO NOT WANT THIS.
veriteez 2 years ago
Hey veriteez, here's a fact-check for you...
In 2008 we had a vote. Obama, along with his policy of THIS specific Healthcare reform he's offering & overall agenda were ELECTED BY THE MAJORITY OF PEOPLE.
Guess you forgot that elections means things. If you don't like it. There's the door ace...
Bolgernow 2 years ago
@Bolgernow - here's a fact check for you. Obama was voted in, but his proposals were not made public. People now decided they don't want his proposal. Especially when his own party could had a majority, and special deals were made. If YOU don't like it, don't let reality hit you when you cross paths on YOUR way out the door.
veriteez 2 years ago
The Majority WANT a PUBLIC OPTION is the bill!!!
wtfoof 2 years ago 3
According to Gallup, 46% oppose and 50% approve of a public option, with +/- 3% margin of error at 95% confidence. As of October 2009.
Americans are split on the issue.
xp19375 2 years ago
After a summer of big insurance $ thrown out solely to confuse
FiveThirtyEight reviewed public support for the "public option", in June 09. The poll results varied between 40% to 83% in support of a government-provided insurance option, with most of the sampled polls showing between 65% and 76% support. NY Times/CBS News poll in June 2009 found that Americans overwhelmingly support substantial changes to the health care system & strongly behind a government-run insurance plan
SurveyUSA-77%
Bolgernow 2 years ago
Norah Odonnell is hot as fuck. I would bang her so hard
Climbatizecombat 2 years ago
LOL!
MSLSD! Freekin loon-town!
Ooooh, just got a tingle up my leg. lol!
thnksno 2 years ago
Great -they used it before for Government WASTE programs and now they are going to do it again. People you don't get it. The rich don't give a damn if this passes, they will still have the money to get things done. The poor and middle class will pick up the tab and ALL your monthly fees and taxes will skyrocket. Yes you won't be able to do anything BUT go to the doctor.
lenny380 2 years ago
"I support paying more taxes if my American Brothers and Sisters who are poor cannot afford health care because I'm a true American Patriot."
- Brothers and Sisters??? And let me guess -- Obama is out father. You aren't a patriot, you're a fucking communist traitor who supports forcing people into this corrupt health care system.
MrProudinfidel 2 years ago
I support paying more taxes if my American Brothers and Sisters who are poor cannot afford health care because I'm a true American Patriot. I care about them.
It seems no Republicans care about fellow Americans or their President. They only care about themselves and money.
They are a greedy sort.
1911arthur 2 years ago 3
I don't object to paying a bit more in taxes if it means all people will have health care.
And our founders on situations such as this only required a 50% vote & Bush used reconciliation to get what he wanted -- huge tax cuts for the wealthiest 5% in time of war which nearly bankrupted our country.
DillonX 2 years ago 2
Wake up we already have social programs in this country and this bill will be passed
Fringe111 2 years ago 2
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CrazyManLun 2 years ago
I am really glad that Obama came out as a good president.
kenokaasari 2 years ago
The puppet obama is walking has if he is a big shot. the little racially mix puppet has been doing the same thing bush has been.
His change slogan was just a piece of lie like his master wanted him too.
his grandmother from Kenya still live in the same hut she was, his half brother from kenya is stil in a shack in that township.
this Obama is a real piece of junk, he is less than dirt.
he thinks he is pink "white" when his ass is racially mix
ProtectingAfrica 2 years ago
whos stupider? sea world or politicians?
Nonniemayrox 2 years ago
I actually like this bill now. The idea of small business and individuals gathering their purchasing power is great. A lot of the Republican ideas are in this bill as well... Hell this bill may as well be a Republican package... 95% are Republican ideas. The only thing Democrat about it is "hey lets take these ideas and not just apply them to small business but to individuals as well."
Come on. How can Republicans not vote for their own ideas.
warningfireexit 2 years ago 3
because they're obstructing.
rbrtchng 2 years ago
Then Obama gets credit. They don't want that.
JoeyBieg 2 years ago 2
Because their owned by the ins. corporations
Fringe111 2 years ago 3
How bout we stop acting like Republicans and Democrats and start acting like fucking Americans.
the intelligence level of people is quickly declining
acesonfire 2 years ago 9
here's where ya fukd up...
no taxpayer is going to look at a 2 foot tall 2,700 page government bill and say...
"WOW... LOOK AT ALL THE COST SAVINGS"!!!
it's OVA
1Guitarslayer 2 years ago
soo we're supposed to believe that we will insure 30,000,000 additional people for less money... HAHAHAHAHHHAHA !!!
fuckin used car salesman
1Guitarslayer 2 years ago
Actually, the US currently pays the most in healthcare spending in the world. We spend 17% of our GDP and yet we are the only industrialized country w/o a universal system. In fact 700,000 ppl(mostly in MiddClass since no1 cares about the poor) go bankrupt due to healthcare bills a yr in the US. In Germany, France, Japan, and the UK combined... ZERO. I understand if you don't like the bills, but higher costs when we are ranked #37 in healthcare seems kinda backwards to me.
GGLebo23 2 years ago 5
However, we are ranked #1 in Quality of Service, Patient Satisfaction, and Shortest Wait Times as a result of our free-market healthcare system... Just something to think about
retownsend 2 years ago
@retownsend
WTF!
Not everyone can pay for "Quality of Service, Patient Satisfaction, and Shortest Wait Times"
Most get no service, only a bill. "Just something to think about "
vcshort1 2 years ago 3
That part is true, but most of us can't afford to get all these goodies. Something to think about.
Fringe111 2 years ago 2
That's why the republicans are so against this plan. It does save money and it will make them look really bad.
Fringe111 2 years ago 5
If more health care is provided to more people, its going to cost MORE. Doesnt that make sense to you?
Silveracity 2 years ago
Silveracity, I suggest you study economics 101, especially supply and demand.
wtfoof 2 years ago
There are a limited number of medical resources, and you want to increase the demand? How does that lower the total cost?
Silveracity 2 years ago
Silveracity, you guys keep thinking the health market is like wide-screen TVs. It is not a classic market in any sense. Trust me - the demand for appendectomies is not going to go through the roof if health care is more affordable. We're not going to have to put 2,000 more oncologists on staff because everyone decides they really want to have surgery and chemo for lymphoma. The truth is that early, and interventionist medicine actually reduces the load.
47f0 2 years ago
You're right that it's not like the consumer market, but it is like the service and maintenance market.
If seeing a doctor is free then more people will do it, that is why we have had to put rates on doctors visits. Otherwise anyone with a cold wants to see their doctor.
The biggest problem in health care is the thrid payer system, that is true in all the west. It doesn't really matter if it is government or private who makes these kinds of decissions, though private is prefered
Visfen 2 years ago
Visfan, honest, no other "service" industry compares with waking up at three in the morning with a burst appendix. And you actually want people to see the doctor more frequently - in the long run, a diabetic who has good, frequent access to medical care is going to be less of a burden on the system. And in spite of the imagined cost of doctors, most of Europe manages to provide 50% more doctors (around 3.5/1k population vs. our 2.3/1k) and do it far cheaper.
47f0 2 years ago
Then he has every incentive to regulate his own behaviour, there is no reason to centrally plan it. The price system and the inherit incentives within it will sort things out far better than any form of government beurocracy ever could.
The numbers of doctors doesn't reflect the accesability to care, because these systems are so inefficient, my country - Sweden, with more doctors per capita than any other country manages to still have a shortage of doctors.
Visfen 2 years ago
Of course the system in the US needs to change, but the problem today is not too little government, it is too much.
Look at the ridiculous state regulations on insurers that work as hidden taxes to increase the cost of insurance. Why would a man need protection from cervical cancer? Why would anyone want massages in their health care plan? It's become a cash cow for interest groups do lobby politicans to force their services into use.
Sponaneous organization from bottom to top is better.
Visfen 2 years ago
Noooo, the more people in a pool the less the cost. That's why all gov't employees, thousands of them have very low premiums. If you have a company with only ten people the pool is to small to negotiate for a better product. Didn't you know that?
Fringe111 2 years ago
OK, which fact am I suppose to note.
The fact that reconciliation was talked about prior to the summit and the bipartisan dog and pony show Obama gave us, or the fact that reconciliation was used in the past for budgetary items. MSNBC, lets just forget the other pesky fact and what is not valid, is that using reconciliation like this has never been done. It has never been used to create an entirely new and substantive program using the reconciliation process.
makeinstall 2 years ago
COBRA dipshit
MarkG45 2 years ago
Dipshit?
Screw you, I suppose next you'll tell me COBRA lasts forever and is affordable.
COBRA is not forced on people , you can pay out the nose to keep your existing coverage or you can pass. And COBRA amends the Employee Retirement Income Security Act. Not a major piece of legislation.
COBRA was a stop gap measure to help people who want to pay full rates for thier existing coverage without any cost taken by your employeer.
Looks like you're plugged into the Obama news network.
makeinstall 2 years ago
@makeinstall you obviously don't have a pre extistence condition, because if you did then you would know to have a gap in coverage can be life threatening because all major insurance companies will refuse to cover anything relating to that for the 1st year you start your new job. COBRA for Americans like myself is the most important bill they have. you just can't get insurance on your own, i have tried, they told me flat out no. i have congential heart failure. alive today cause military dad
loon0493 2 years ago
@loon0493 well... I'm not saying people don't deserve care but democrats keep using the comparison to car insurance... well turning it back on them, if you get into too many wrecks and get tickets a lot , they can deny you coverage and raise your rates and yet we find no problem with this.. you have to take into account the insurance company is making a bet with you. Based on your current health, both you and the insurance company are betting you won't get sick but just in case you do..
Chslosers 2 years ago
may i advise you to read my comment again. when you congential heart failure it does not get better. Health insurance already know off the bat that i will be going to the doctor regularly, they already know i will have operations every 3-5 years for the rest of my life. So are you saying health insurance companies should have the option to drop me?
loon0493 2 years ago
What is a company supposed to do if they are paying out more for a client than taking in from the client? Just make a small public option for those that have the problem such as yours.
Chslosers 2 years ago
so you are saying just let me die?
loon0493 2 years ago
Nobody said that but that rhetoric sounds quite similar that of Ed Schultz.. did you not just read my last sentence?
Chslosers 2 years ago
actually i love my rachel maddow, but what do you think will happen if an insurance company drops you? Yes they will let you die because profit is more important than life( In the words of machevilli a man will forgive a prince for killing his father, but will hate and avenge himself if you steal his land) In such a case you would probably have to get whatever free care you could get. Which means the taxpayer would be paying for your care. Get it? This is the current system.
loon0493 2 years ago
@loon0493
No conservative will tell you, you should not get healthcare for a preexisting condition.
Obama's healthcare could address people in your situation but the current version goes to far and adds costs where it should regulate. It also mandates coverage or someone like me who is healthy.
Your Fathers Tricare Ins covers 9.2 million and costs us 42.1 Billion a year (2008) and is a special/expensive and well deserved healthcare insurance for veterans.
COBRA helped it didn't mandate.
makeinstall 2 years ago
Oh pesky facts can be so biased.
milesy49 2 years ago
didnt you hear? The truth has a liberal bias
youcutmelegoff 2 years ago
Next your going to tell me that there were no WMD or terrorists in Iraq.
7jerryv7 2 years ago
WWI, it's extension WWII, & its' extension The Cold War. All 3 men died fighting the same thing, leftist lunatics hell bent on tyrannical domination of the lives of others.
MrHelldogger 2 years ago
The Cold War was by no means a world war. Simply comparing the numbers of deaths from the two world wars demonstrate otherwise. Although you seem to rewrite history to meet your own political ends, you should realize that our opponents in both world wars were conservatives, reactionaries, and anti-communists. Read a few history books.
LarcheOsborne 2 years ago
Hey jackoff, the rest of the world that lived through the terrors of the Soviet expansion years dis agree with you ignorant perception. As far as reading history books, if you started now I doubt you could read all my history books before you die.
MrHelldogger 2 years ago
In all your history books, can you name a single reputable historian who defines the Cold War as WWIII? Thought not, and history will not remember it that way.
Furthermore, my history degree and sizable collection of books (about six tons in weight) are at least as accurate as yours, and my history books -- written by professional scholars or actual participants -- support my contentions.
LarcheOsborne 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
The Left lies more! But the left is condescending and arrogant enough to thing that they lie for your own good.
islandmuffin 2 years ago
@demonpreyer Would all of your oversimplifications be proven wrong if there were space for proper examination ? FACT. Yes Stick with FOX . you're better off there. FACT. Yes
lstntn 2 years ago 4
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Is government run health care going to raise your taxes? FACT:Yes.
Is grhc going to create more jobs? FACT:No.
Is grhc going to make you more healthy? FACT:No.
Is grhc going to create more health care rationing? FACT:Yes.
Is grhc going to create doctor and nurse shortages? FACT:Yes.
Is grhc going to be the same "Top Notch" health care that congress gets? FACT:No.
Is grhc going to save more lives? FACT:No.
Is grhc going to cost more than what you're paying the insurance companies now? FACT:Yes.
demonpreyer 2 years ago
@demonpreyer - Is typing "FACT" going to make these things facts. NO.
We have health care rationing in the U.S. now - and death panels, in every cubicle farm in every health insurance company.
Every other OECD nation but us has citizens who live longer, healthier lives and pay far less than we do for health care.
The U.K., at the moment, actually has a surplus of doctors.
Health insurance companies are actually enjoying record profits - because they are costing us more.
47f0 2 years ago 4
@47f0
"Every other OECD nation but us has citizens who live longer, healthier lives and pay far less than we do for health care."
That is because fewer people die in car accidents, wars, and people make healthier choices. None of that has to do with healthcare. It is so cheap because the government sets arbitrary limits on what things cost, and we have to pick up the slack. Health insurance companies, according to the AP, make a 2.2% profit margin, compared to Microsoft at 33%.
xp19375 2 years ago
Oh dear, xp - you, like your O/S namesake, are so fail. Healthier choices? You mean like the French, over 40% of whom smoke at least a pack a day, consume more alcohol than us, and have dietary preferences that would give a cardiologist cold sweats? France is also very close to us in auto fatalities, at 13.8/100k vs our 15.8/100k. And wars? Really? Wars? Let's contrast the less than 5k soldiers in the last decade with 45k dying of no insurance, and thousands more due to denials and stalling.
47f0 2 years ago
Oh, and your "profit" argument is also specious. If you knew jack about business, you'd know that William McGuire's $110 million salary at United Health comes out of the "profit". Then you get to knock down your profit even more with stock options (hey, it's like printing money). Deduct a few hundred million more for lobbyists and PAC contributions, wipe out a little more for failed doctors on staff to rubber-stamp denials, and pretty soon, it looks like you have no "profit".
47f0 2 years ago
@47f0
As for life expectancy, it is not how many die, but at what age. Young men, about 18-21 die and that brings the life expectancy down. My point is that other variables confound healthcare's impact on life expectancy, so you can't say that their healthcare is better if they live longer.
As for profits, compare that to all the government waste, fraud, and abuse. If insurance companies had to compete across state lines, they would have to lower prices and become more efficient to survive.
xp19375 2 years ago
No, actually, it gets worse. That's what happened with banks and credit cards. They let them sell across state lines without having to deal with the regulations of different states. So they all incorporated in the states that allowed them to charge whatever they wanted and you ended up with huge fees and triple the interest rates in a race to the bottom.
mmmtoblerone 2 years ago
@mmmtoblerone
Banks are very heavily regulated, and we have a central bank, which makes things worse.
Credit cards are voluntary. You don't need one, and even if you do have one, if you pay your bills on time, you don't have to worry about interest. 25 years ago, it was much harder to get a credit card than it is today.
xp19375 2 years ago
Banks are not as heavily regulated and their credit card business was basically deregulated. It is not voluntary because in order to rent a car or stay at a hotel now you need a credit card, and paying on time won't save you from the crazy fees they have been dreaming up. I think it was better back when it was harder to get credit so that people who didn't deserve it wouldn't make it more expensive for everyone, but that was also when the banks couldn't make it more expensive for everyone.
mmmtoblerone 2 years ago
@mmmtoblerone
You can still pay in cash or check for services. It is to the advantage of the business to do so. Credit Card companies charge businesses a fee for every transaction, which doesn't happen with cash. Besides, if they say you have to pay with a credit card, they are rejecting the business of everyone who does not have one, which is stupid on their part because they make less money.
xp19375 2 years ago
By the way, I agree that our central bank makes things worse. I think you need some kind of central banking facility, but our Fed is majorly screwed up. Why is it screwed up? Because the banks run it.
I do not want the insurance companies getting even more powerful because they will use that power to screw us over, capture their regulators and steal from our economy just like the banks have done. Power corrupts. The founding fathers believed in balances for power for good reason.
mmmtoblerone 2 years ago
Every other OECD country is moving towards more private care.
The problem in the US is pricing, the level of quality is the best in the world.
The NHS is a disaster, and what is worse is that as the third largest employer behind the chinese and north korean armies it is impossible to do anything about it.
Proftis is not the problem, the problem is that these companies have such vast mandates that it has become a state regulated utility. There's regulations in some states for massages...
Visfen 2 years ago
They all lie!!!
nelipotfootfree 2 years ago
TRILLION DOLLAR TAX CUTS. those words have meaning republitards
genghis6l99 2 years ago 6
pick a side
secede
marniespeaks 2 years ago
As George Washington said, "As Mankind becomes more liberal, they will be more apt to allow that all those who conduct themselves as worthy members of the community are equally entitled to the protections of civil government. I hope ever to see America among the foremost nations of justice and liberality."
DraconisRex 2 years ago 4
Now look up Liberalism.
Your Promoting:
Free markets (capitalism)
Free trade
Written constitution
Personal liberty ( Natural Rights as opposed to government granted rights)
Personal Responsibility
Private Property
Limited Government
The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not. Thomas Jefferson
davidpark68 2 years ago
that sounds like a lot of bullshit. as i remember it there were a lot of workers called slaves
MrGnarus 2 years ago 2
Wiki is your friend
there still is slavery, they call them taxpayers now
davidpark68 2 years ago
Every objective economic indicator performs better under Democratic presidents than under Republican presidents. EVERY ONE.
Richardgwm 2 years ago 6
Reid and Obama said nobody is talking about reconciliation... both are out of touch.
joshpnw 2 years ago
Yea, the guy elected POTUS 15 months ago, fell so far that he is COMPLETELY out of touch. Gotcha.
sataalvarez 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
The dems will pass this next week & then the real revolution will begin. SO far the Tea Parties have been peaceful. That could all change dramatically.
Impeach Obama, Pelosi & Reid before they completely destroy America.
No more public servants that refuse to identify themselves. And give them all piss tests.
MrHelldogger 2 years ago
wow is that a threat?
robinvan1983 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
No, it's an observation. Govt healthcare is a threat.
Was it a threat when P. Henry said " Give me liberty or give me death." ? Was that an extreme thing to say?
MrHelldogger 2 years ago
An observation? Well maybe you should observe better. Every industrialized nation (Except us) has a form of Govt health care. And all of them rank ahead of us in health care services and satisfaction. I have been to the U.K and Japan. Their Health care is 10x better then ours. And don't mix the founding fathers into this. We can debate till were blue over whom the founding fathers would side with.
warcraft1920 2 years ago 3
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Another God Damn lie! But please, be my guest. Go there, cause it aint happnin here.
MrHelldogger 2 years ago
its no more a threat than medicare.
GOD why are conservatives so fucking p[aranoid about everything GOD everything is a fucking threat or fucking conspiracy to you fucking people
Stop being fucking cowards for once in your fucking lives
3star2nr 2 years ago 2
@3star2nr
They can't. It's biological. There have been a lot of great scientific, peer-reviewed papers on that issue the past five years.
The bottom line is, as a population, conservatives are fearful weenies.
DraconisRex 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Medicare is broke. Bad example. Try again.
MrHelldogger 2 years ago
And do you know why it is broke ? Because health care company denies coverage to risky people who ends up in bankrupcy because of healthcare cost and end up in medicare or medicaid system... Dumbass...
Melpheos1er 2 years ago 3
medicare is not broke. Its projected to go in the red because BUSH passed medicare part D where the government PAYS private insurance $1.15 to cover the SAME THINGS regular medicare already covers for less than $1.00
The Medicare system itself works and is very efficient. BUSH and CONSERVATIVE FUCKED UP MEDICARE
fucking research shit before you talk nonsense
3star2nr 2 years ago 7
This comment has received too many negative votes show
It's broke. And out of about 15 doctors I know personally none of them want to take patients with it because it take so long to collect just part of their money from the govt, which is also broke. Doctors that are in good areas stay away from it if they can, but they won't be allowed to under this tyrannical commie plan.
MrHelldogger 2 years ago
@MrHelldogger [from LATimes 2/23/10]: California's largest for-profit health insurer violated state law more than 700 times over a three-year period by failing to pay medical claims on time and misrepresenting policy provisions to customers, the state's insurance commissioner said Monday. ... Nearly 40% of the violations in the Anthem case, 277, stem from allegations that the company failed to pay patient claims within 30 days as required by state law, officials said.
Marvin27 2 years ago 3
This comment has received too many negative votes show
So What!?!? Go fuck with them & leave the rest of us alone. Don't put me in jail because of what crooks do. And be careful what you read in the LA Times. They have a leftist political agenda.
MrHelldogger 2 years ago
@MrHelldogger: Here's what: You mentioned "it take so long to collect" from the govt, but you don't care that private insurers delay payment?
What is the leftist agenda of the LA Times? Can you accurately describe this agenda and cite objective sources? And, please, respond without profanity or name-calling.
Be careful what you watch on FOX. They have a far right-wing political agenda. :)
Marvin27 2 years ago 2
How can you pay cover something for less than what it's worth? Fact is Medicare and Medicaid pay $0.80 on the dollar, leaving 20% of the cost to be distributed amongst private healthcare consumers. If that $0.15 increase did ANYTHING it would offset private consumer costs by 15%
njcarlos1 2 years ago
@njcarlos1 The whole billing system is kind of a scam when you add the uninsured. What is the real cost with an insured customer?
Write offs deductions reimbursement, a tangled mess with the possibility of cooked books with an unethical provider. Most are not but a stupid system.
437thx1138 2 years ago
Please describe what liberties do you expect to lose by healthcare reform. Also explain why the people of Western Europe receive excellent government healthcare and remain just as free as you are.
Also, do you know that Patrick Henry also rejected the Constitution, viewing it as a threat to his liberties. Was that an extreme thing to believe?
LarcheOsborne 2 years ago
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17% of my pay check
My right to buy my own medical ins.
My freedom(jail) if I don't buy theres
My right to eat , drink, comsume what I want to The list goes on you dumbass. Don't you get it. When they determine your health they determine your life. But you are too selfish, inconsiderate, greey & envious to give a shit about my freedom or yours' either. Go to fucking work & get your own Get on a union contract and get your insurance through your contract. Quit picking other peoples' pockets
MrHelldogger 2 years ago
Very impressive how much energy you put into whingin, MH.
A shame you're so full of self righteous shite.
integral 2 years ago
We did not have a great economy until the Democrats took over. Clinton left Bush with the largest surplus in US history. By the time Democrats won Congress, Bush and his Republican Congress turned that surplus into the largest deficit in US history. (continued)
LarcheOsborne 2 years ago 4
That's a God Damn lie. Who was running the house you lieing piece of commie shit? I guess they didn't tell you here in America Congress appropriates fund & is responsible for the budget. THe president simply approves or disapproves. Clinton was a lame duck president after his 1st off year election.
MrHelldogger 2 years ago
While appropriations bills must indeed be introduced in the House, but they begin working will a budget introduced by Congress. And the president has considerable power over spending which involves the executive branch -- this includes foreign affairs, military spending, law enforcement, administrative law, and so on. If Clinton could leave us with a massive surplus even with a GOP Congress, how did Bush turn it into a huge deficit with a GOP congress? (continued)
LarcheOsborne 2 years ago
Check dictionary for meaning of lame duck.
I am amused by your accusing me of being "lieing [sic] piece of commie shit." Is this the way you always respond to someone who injects reality into deluded image of the world?
LarcheOsborne 2 years ago
An internal review reviled that the FBI routinely used exigent letters alleging false terrorism emergencies to illegally collect the phone records of Americans for four years of the Bush administration. The names of the thousands of innocent Americans subjected to 4th Amendment violations were not given, but several have filed suit against telephone companies that enabled this illegal practice. (continued)
LarcheOsborne 2 years ago 2
Just because a war is popular does not make it just. The US waged war on all the Native American peoples, and all these conflicts proved popular. Do you think it was just to wage almost genocidal on Indians because it was popular? Lincoln, America's greatest president, nearly destroyed his political career by opposing the very popular Mexican War. He chose to be just instead of popular. (continued)
LarcheOsborne 2 years ago 3
The purpose of war is not to be just. It is to be victorious.
MrHelldogger 2 years ago
So you share Hitler and Stalin's view of war. I should not be surprised. You have several other political characteristics they possessed as well.
LarcheOsborne 2 years ago
that wasn't Cheney's plan..
milesy49 2 years ago
There were only two world wars in the 20th-century and torture is not a factor in winning either of them. Intelligence (not to mention the Soviet crushing the Heer) played a major role in WWII. We gained most of our intelligence from German sources, our allies, and from partisans inside occupied countries. They turned to us mainly because the Germans employed the very unamerican practices you would have us adopt. (continued)
LarcheOsborne 2 years ago 4
WWI & it's extension WWII, & its' extension the Cold War. All fighting the same thing, liberalism & its' deadly sociall effect.
MrHelldogger 2 years ago
As for Obama calling his grandmother "a typical white woman," my mother and both of my grandmothers were "typical white women." I am a "typical white man." Where is your complaint?
As to your list of lost rights, you would be paying lower taxes if we reformed healthcare. Nowhere does the healthcare bills under proposal prevent you from buying your own healthcare. You will not be imprisoned for not having healthcare (
No government agent will inspect your diet. You can continue to eat Twinkies
LarcheOsborne 2 years ago 2
You claim, "When they determine your health they determine your life." Do you believe that your private insurance company determines your life?
As to being "selfish, inconsiderate, greey [sic] & envious," I would list these as the qualities of an individual indifferent to the millions who die from lack of healthcare.
I'm sorry you disapprove of my not working, but that is not your concern. As for my insurance, I am well covered thanks to the state of Illinois. The government pays for it.
LarcheOsborne 2 years ago 2
yes i hope so impeach washington now!
savior02 2 years ago
You're a psychopath.
Mackaframmalamma 2 years ago
YES! IMPEACH OBAMA! He caused the greatest financial meltdown since the 20s...oh wait, that was the last guy. Well, oh, I know...Obama took over liberties away with the Patriot Act!!! Uh...wait, that was the other guy. Ok, ok...I've got it now! He started 2 illegal wars AND gave the ok for water boarding...Oh..never mind, that was still the other guy....This sucks :( Let's just say he's a secret muslim and he hates White people, even though his mother and grandparents are White. Ding!
sataalvarez 2 years ago 16
hahahha
GibbyLOLSTFUPLEASE 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
We had a great economy till Pelosi & Reid took over, Name me 1 innocent American that had their liberty taken away from the Patriot Act, there's not 2 wars there is only 1 approved of by 80% of the people at the time, what you call torture helped us win 3 world wars in the 20th century & Oblabla called his grandmother a "typycal white woman". ding! dong!
MrHelldogger 2 years ago
Glenn Beck. Come out of this body !
You are so full of shit i can smell it for here...
Melpheos1er 2 years ago
@MrHelldogger: "what you call torture helped us win 3 world wars" REALLY? You do realize that we tried, convicted, and executed Japanese soldiers for waterboarding American soldiers, right? Historical facts are not on your side here.
Marvin27 2 years ago 2
Oh please you people are not going to do anything. This "revolution" you speak of is just like the race war the Aryan Brotherhood always says is coming. Its not going to happen STFU.
warcraft1920 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Yeah, your right. Go back to the park & you & your boyfriend smoke another joint, find another trick & don't worry about it. How's the weather down at the social services office today anyway. Always the same, uh?
MrHelldogger 2 years ago
You're testosterone driven, small minded, blather is always good for a laugh, MH
integral 2 years ago 2
great job msnbc keep up the good work.
AJASNA0709 2 years ago 4
This has been flagged as spam show
msnbc is owned by GE and GE is a major political contributer to obamas campaign that is standing to make trillions off global warming legislation yalk about fascism you stupid dumb filthy cunt
savior02 2 years ago
Takes one to know one, eh?
radudeATL 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
yeah its been used by but never on this scale that effect every american there are many new taxes in this and fines!!!! you stupid bitch!
savior02 2 years ago
if you dont like msnbc why do watch it go watch foxnews
AJASNA0709 2 years ago
It's the entertainment value. I love to watch luatics bang their head on the walls and call everybody else weird.
MrHelldogger 2 years ago
savior02, I'll assume from your utter illiteracy that you're not a big fan of reading - or facts. Let me guess - you're probably a "birther" and a climate change denier also.
Ask yourself a question, though, and it's not a hard question, since it's clear you don't deal with hard issues very well. How the hell is every other OECD nation living longer, healthier lives than us, while paying half or less what we pay for health care?
47f0 2 years ago 2
This has been flagged as spam show
OBAMA CARE IS AN ATTACK ON OUR LIBERTIES!! IT MANDATES EVERYONE TO BUY HEALTH CARE IF NOT A 3 THOUSAND FINE WILL BE ISSUED PER YEAR! WE SHOULD HAVE THE RIGHT TO CHOOSE WHETHER WE WANT IT OR NOT MR DICTATOR! FUCK YOU IMPEACH THE OBAMA PELOSI REID MACHINE NOWw!!!
savior02 2 years ago