Thomas More

[Aprilshowersss]

He burned people alive! Why are we pitying him?

[PInk77W1]

@Aprilshowersss he didnt burn people alive, the state did, i think u miss the nuance

[Aprilshowersss]

@PInk77W1 The "state" burned "heretics" with his personal approval.

[PInk77W1]

@Aprilshowersss Translation..... the state burned heretics.... It would b like saying obama kills people in iraq today... .. no the usa kills people in iraq.

[verobinful]

Is it possible for you to imagine that Thomas More, in his fonction, had burned 6 peoples because they didn't pray like him? Do you think a "Saint "could do that? He wasn't "a saint". He had his own devils inside him...and his own fears. He was a great fanatic of the catholic church"Erasme" himself, the great humanist, and his friend, was chocked about Thomas's More's behaviour. And me, i can't accept a clever man like him had burned innocents people for heresie.

[Versipelles]

@verobinful Can you cite the work of Erasmus in which he expresses shock over More's activity suppressing heresy in England? More himself was of the opinion that "Erasmus, my darling...detesteth and abhorreth the errors and heresies that Tyndale plainly teacheth and abideth by" (More, Confutation of Tyndale's Answer). What More did was to enforce existing English law, a law (De Heretico Comburendo) (2 Hen.4 c.15) that had been put in place by the secular goverment for its own protection.

[verobinful]

@Versipelles Erasme was opposite to Tyndale or Luther. So what? Concerning the work of Erasme in which he expresses shock over More's activity....It's a stupid question where YOU KNOW, my darling, there is none. A book for that? You really take me.as a tourist in historia! no problem. Go to vatican's library, (if you can), you will find letters and acts of trials you can't imagine. Erasme's reaction concerning More and heretics is true.It's a long time ago. But i'll find the phrase. and tell U.

[verobinful]

@Versipelles But i tell you, honey,my knowledges are good in french historia (wich is much more interesting than English's historia), this pretentious country...who always wanted to invade France!.On the contrary, when the Britishs offered the english throne to Louis VII (son of king PhilippeII Auguste).He refused! ah! ah! ah! This country was so cold and awful that he said: ..Heu no..thank you. And when they add "the lis's flower" near their lions! because of 100e century war they lost finally!

[Versipelles]

@verobinful I presume you think that I was calling you personally "my darling." I wasn't; that was part of the quotation from More. He was replying to the charge that Tyndale made against More that his "darling" (Tyndale's word) Erasmus favored heresies. French history is very interesting, but that hardly affects the question of Erasmus of Rotterdam. Louis VII was the father, not the son of Philip II. Philip's son Louis VIII did try to seize England, and failed.

[verobinful]

@Versipelles my english are very very bad. And yes, of course , it was louis VIII/

[verobinful]

@Versipelles Sorry again, but i'm mocking so much about myself concerning "darling".Yes. there's no relation between Erasme and the history between FRANCE and ENGLAND.But i'm angry actually with that/ Considering Erasme, i'm going to ask to my friend (he's a professor in early modern british history)who told me THAT in a discussion (the fact that he was shoked with More' behaviour). I trust on him, so i didn't ask him at that time how he knew that. But i swear i will tell u where he find that.

[verobinful]

@Versipelles And keep smiling...You look like so serious!

[verobinful]

@Versipelles And keep smiling!you look like so serious!In history,the interesting think is not say: i know that and that...what it's interesting is "the controverse"The imagination, the knowledge of human's psychologie, the importance to understand the character of someone (a king for ex),and why he acted like this;etc..that's what i like!there is the facts(a letter, signs on a rock, the old books etc),and our brain do the rest! Actually, for ex, i'm with the secret philippe IV, people hate!

[tommerrigan1956]

Honor is that courage by which we commit ourselves to a higher moral standard than the common conscience will support; a determination to fulfill the claims of duty, promise, and equity, no matter whether others observe, ignore, or dissuade.

[empacae]

St Thomas More pray for us.

[zthetha]

More might have been the brightest intellectual of his day but was he not also incredibly naive? Moreover, his so called 'moral' stance on the preceptsof an institution as corrupt from top to toe as the Church of Rome is entirely bereft of value or logic. He peddled superstition as truth and if, as Lollipop claims.he was responsible for killing the excellent translator of the Bible into English - enriching our language with numerous still common phrases - he deserved to lose his head.

[nekovelo]

No he didnt.

[AOZXRAY]

@zthetha If we read simpletons who can't grok More, then we suppose so. Chamber's "Thomas More" shows this is not true. It is a great and deep book.

Those English lords called the Church corrupt, while they themselves had zero virtue and were often utterly devoid of any spirit, whereas the Church always had saints and holy people along with mortal foolery and corruption that goes with humanity.

He who takes Protestant propaganda as truth will have a rude awakening when he does more research.

[empacae]

@AOZXRAY I grok you completely brother. He was God's servant first.

[YeOldeTune]

William Tyndale died after More's execution and he wasn't in England.

[lollipopfop]

He most certainly did torture people, that is how he questioned them. he also ordered many Reformists to be burned by fire. Zealots are evil people who honestly believe they are acting in the best interest of the world. Killing off all Lutherans was not just. It was evil. There is always evil in the world. That doesn't make it good.

[DaniMajor]

Look, More was no Saint but as I said you must understand the context. For More, and for many other people in his time, Protestants were like the Anti Christ which was a real threat in that time. So really, More had many flaws and many qualities. But he was above all a man of his time and he must be understood and studied as such. Wikipedia is not a really good source. Sir Winston Churchill. I mean, SWC believed in a thing called Racial Hygene which nowadays

[DaniMajor]

One of the best examples of what I´m saying is Sir Winston Churchill. I mean, SWC believed in a thing called Racial Hygene which nowadays is totally unacceptable and imoral. Churchill defended the use of weapons and bombs in civilians. And many historians defend that Churchill commit serious war crimes. I love Churchill he´s a hero but as More he was no saint. He was a man of his time and he must be jugde as such. Not from a XX century point of view. Sorry but that´s not History.

[Tillyvalle]

Thomas More did not burn anyone. He questioned heretics but most certainly did NOT torture anyone. He sincerely believed heretics would go to hell and tried desperately to change their minds. This was the 16th century, people thought very differently then. Thomas was a good, honest, devout man and yes, before anyone points it out, when he failed to persuade heretics he did believe they should burn rather than lead anyone else astray. He was a man of his time.

[kbarr1982]

You are correct! More never personally executed anyone. Henry VIII and later Elizabeth stole the true religion from the English people. The Anglican communion today is in shambles and what more can be expected from a church that was founded on error. A Sovereign has neither the authority or competence to "reform" the church. Had Mary Stuart been Queen of England, Archbishop Nichols would be Archbishop of Canterbury today.

[100percentbabeLOL]

MM I would like to see information on this such as a credible link, T Cranmer was made a saint by the C oF E and he tortured as well as murdered many Catholics as well as Non Catholics. He also supported Henry to kangroo court Anne B and have her beheaded. That aside I have NEVER heard of these accusations about Thomas moore. It's sad and that so many died and suffered in those days no matter what faith , but thankfully minus a few we all live in peace now despite history in the UK!.

[lollipopfop]

You never heard that he killed Lutherans? Look at Wiki. Im sure it won't be hard to find.

[lollipopfop]

Look under William Tyndale, he translated the Bible into English from Latin so common people could read it. More ordered his death himself. More thought if common people could read the Bible themselves they would not need the clergy as much. Also if people know what the Bible said the Church could not order them to do stuff saying it was in the Bible if it wasn't. He thought people like us able to read the Bible was so awful. So I don't feel as sad for his death.

[soccermagic88]

William Tyndale died in Belgium a year after St. Thomas More had already been beheaded.

[evaperonfan]

me neither. Thomas More deserved what he got. Now thumb me down all you want, Catherine fans. I DON´T CARE!

[BeFree2Laugh]

@evaperonfan  BROS BEFORE HO'S MAN!!!!!!!!

[AOZXRAY]

@lollipopfop Pls write about things you have seriously researched. Those were not the reasons of More for his stances. "People like us"... your surface thinking shows why it is playing with fire to allow any fool to advocate any idea he conjures up out his head about the Bible, or anything else. Read Chamber's "Thomas More" if you want to have a more informed view of things.

[GoddessofHyrule]

I agree with you. THose Lutherans hadn't done anything.

[CondorFlyingHigh]

Are you absolutely sure Thomas More racked protestants??? I never heard of that

[100percentbabeLOL]

Nor have I, and to be honest I am sure that's not true but then there is alot of biased historical properganda!.

[DaniMajor]

The fact is that More did sent some protestants to death when he was undersheriff of London, because they were consider heretics at that time. This fact, because it is actually proved, leads to accusations of religious fanatism though we don´t know that and there are no actual proof that he was a fanatic..now it is obvious that we have to understand the context. More was catholic and he was an authority of state. (cont)

[DaniMajor]

Being protestant was being an heretic and the time, and that was a crime. Today we may think it is unfair but we cannot judge History for the cannons and ideas of nowadays. What remains is the fact that More was an honest man in a corrupt court and that´s very important. He stood against a King. There are many contradictions regarding More´s character. Personally I prefer to believe in Erasmos opinion. He called More: sweetest Thomas. I agree. After all he wrote Utopia and was a humanist.

[coolbrian15]

thomas moore is my godfathers patron saint mine is thomas becket

[CescFabregas2468]

St Thomas More pray for us

[cathaustralia]

St Thomas More pray for us

[AndromedaMariaCarmen]

No one can pray for you except Jesus, homie. He was a good guy though.

[kilian111]

You've never prayed for anyone?

[Whitren32]

Did you see in the end of the video at the end

there is a tear came out of St Thomas Mores eye

[persephonethemad]

Poor Thomas More, he was the only person that ever did or thought anything that was in Henry's best interest.