If I had my way I would burn every single place of worship to the ground and throw the preachers or practicers of religion in. Dont need some invented crap to tell me how to behave towards another human being be they white black Asian gay straight whatever So long as they treat me with respect they can eat food at my table anyway peace all
"who will decide?" We will decide! Not any book, but we, the people, will decide what is right and what is wrong, and what kind of society we want to live in.
@acathode Who's stopping people from deciding? Stop dreaming and open your eyes, if we could debate and think over every decision then we wouldnt have accidents mistakes criminals or other mess-ups. Thats why we need law, authority, leaders, police, army, court...so people know right from wrong, because people cant decide for themselves and they have to be told.
Atheism is impractical because it lives in fantasy land of "from nowhere..going nowhere", its like they dont even exist! :D
XTIANS ARE EVERYDAY RAPED IN CHURCHES AND NURSERIES, 270MILLION XTIANS FUCK THER OWN FAMILIES DAILY YET THEY NEVER MENTION THAT COS OF BRAINWASHING WEN THEY WER RAPED IN CHURCH. THAT BASTARS ST PAUL RAPED HIS 5YRS OLD KID. BIBLE IS FULL OF RAPE AND INCEST YET THEY DNT SAY OWT ABOUT THAT
@GodOfUnbelief Religious people should be required by law to wear some sort of religious marking or identification. I am going to start making it my business to make sure that my doctor, dentist, surgeons, are all atheists for now own. I wish we could legally discriminate people's religious preferences. I would make it my business not to hire deists.
@lokenath123 and samie samson has given very shocking facts about his god allah and his mannerisms...which titles mohammad to be a pagan and below stanndards to be called a prophet(for god sake)
@69abhicool We don't know who can be called a prophet. Probably, I say probably, he has to be knowledgeable, truthful, fearless, with his actions matching his words. I don't think any of those fit with Muhammad. I don't worry if someone believes him to be a prophet. What I worry about is that person subjugates his wife to a veil, brings up his children with the same dangerous ideas, like my friend taimur here, according to what that prophet said.
@lokenath123 i believe firmly that the very knowledge gained ny the sages through meditation ...was a series of knowledge transfer from the god to the narada muni and then to his disciples and then to the gandharvas or yakshas and then finally to the sages...in this cource of transfer which was done orally not written as per the tradition . during this the contents through ages got depletd as humans tend to forget and we have retained this very little amout which we get to read ...
@lokenath123 , what do you mean? no human wrote Qur'an from his own mind, whatever that is in the written form has been sent by God, humans just transformed it into text form, not adding a single word of their own, Qur'an doesn't needs research, it already has told what exists, i.e. Jins, Angles etc, science haven't proven the existence of Jins (demons, creatures made of fire, having free will as we humans do but inferior human beings & invisible to us, physically very powerful) (continued)
@taimurdurranii That's your assumption that Quran is the word of God. But the logic using which you concluded that modern science has been derived from Quran because there were muslim scientists before modern scientists, the same logic can also be used to say Quran was derived from Greek and Roman scholars because they existed before Quran was written. And Quran has very few scientific facts, none of which were unknown to man at that time. It's obviously written by humans.
@lokenath123 , So i pray may a jin (demon) possess your body & then you cry & pledge the scientists to remove the jin from your body, that of course will be fun
@lokenath123 , even the most able & smartest doctor wouldn't be able to help you, they will consider you having mental disorder, or having dual personality syndrome etc, as the modern science hasn't reached that advanced level to prove Jins exist.
@lokenath123 , a man beating his wife is regarded as a shameful act in Islam, our Prophet Muhammad PBUH never beat any of his wives. Islam says to be nice to your wives, don't beat them, don't torture them, Allah is pleased those men who love their wives, be polite & patient with them, take care of them, fulfill all their needs. What you said is contrary to all this. This is your own view you have about Islam, your wrong understanding about it
@taimurdurranii I never asked you to lecture me on Islam. No sane person requires a lecture on Islam to descend into morbid hysteria. So please don't. I have already said that whatever you said was right in a new planet "IslamUtopia", where man even doesn't need oxygen to live.
@taimurdurranii And perhaps you are replying to what proudfemale is typing, because I said nothing about muslim men beating wives. I'd give anything for you to end this pitiful conversation, it's painful to know a 21st century guy who calls himself an engineer and then says he believes in Jinns.
@lokenath123 , that is not only Cat Stevens becoming a muslim, Muhammad Ali & Mike Tyson the boxing champions, the hollywood actors Chris Tucker & Ice Cube, Jermaine Jackson brother of Micheal Jackson for instance no wonder were definitely aware of the non-muslim world stating Islam as being a barbaric & violent religion, yet they became muslims, why? you ask them, all of them have money, they grew up in the modern society, in the developed countries, not in some backward developing country
LOL some celebrities have adopted Islam doesn't make it a peaceful religion. Being a celebrity doesn't make you a supreme rational being.Why don't you talk about all the celebrities who have left Islam and campaign against its barbarism?
Islam says gays should be killed if therapy doesn't cure them. If these celebrities support such a religion which openly advocates hate against people because of their personal sexual preferences,their brains are closer to chimps than humans.
@lokenath123 , every man & woman before accepting Islam, from engineers to highly qualified doctors to scientists, already know the way Islam is negatively portrayed by the media & other sources, they haven't been secluded & been kept in caves so that they don't know people saying Islam being the shit etc etc etc religion. They are fully aware of this, they are not stupid, despite of being brought up in the modern society, they accept a belief that is 1400 years old & follow it.
@taimurdurranii No engineers and scientists can be stupid, your own life is an example of that.
Degrees don't give you education, education is supposed to give you a rational bent of mind, not close your eyes to reason. That's what has happened to you and your dad, so I don't consider people like you educated at all.
@lokenath123 , islam kills apostates and gays if they don't respond to therapy is your own belief, utter nonsense, a muslim can only kill a non-muslim until & unless that non-muslim person is a threat to his/her life,only in the act of self defence,like any other normal human would do to save his/her life.All those non-muslims are permitted to kill if they become threat to islam by either killing innocent muslims or attacking a muslim country in order to sub due islam.
So you are saying Islam doesn't kill apostates? LOL
It isn't true Islam you are talking about,it's the sugar coated version that's used to delude people to convert.I haven't seen 'one' of your 'so called' scholars deny it.They also call gays as people 'wrongly wired' or something in their heads.Gays have been hanged in muslim countries.
See I am wasting time with you,you have been fed too much rubbish from childhood to have a meaningful conversion with.
@lokenath123 , I am not God, what he chooses to do, he knows the best, nor you or i could assert the reason behind what God does, he's the creator, he's the one with perfect wisdom & knowledge, I can't answer you on behalf of God since i don't possess any knowledge equal to God, like normal human beings i have limited range of thinking power (continued)
@taimurdurranii Okay, so again you have given no reason of believing in Allah. But you are giving me this lure of Paradise if I believed in him, at the cost that I should abandon my free thinking which tells me that Allah is just bullshit and the Quran is a hateful book with very little sense in it.
I am sorry, that's too big a price that you are asking. I think I am on this earth to find truth with reason to believe in it. And if there were a God he will love me more for it.
@lokenath123 , humans utilize 5% to 6% of their total brain, we will be using 100% of our brain in the hereafter where we all will see the angels, God will be there judging & deciding who'll go to hell & who has to enter Jannah. As for scientific knowledge is concerned it's not perfect, it has developed through ages & it is fully supporting the fact that this whole system of this universe is operated by 1 supreme Creator.
@taimurdurranii That are just assertions with no evidence. Science has not supported 1% of the hypothesis that there is a supreme creator. Rather almost all evidence till date go against a supreme creator.
Perhaps your science school teaches a line out of Hamid-Al-Ghazali who believed that mathematics is word of the devil and led to the downfall of the entire Islamic academia, reduced Islam from a flourishing culture to a Titanic whose future is as black as the bottom of the atlantic ocean.
Whatever you do, don't teach your children, when you have them, such dangerous ideas that the boys among them are smarter than the girls. Or that there is a creator to whom they must submit to without letting them examine themselves whether such a being actually exists or not. You will do grave injustice to them, and perhaps psychological damage to the girls among them who might never reach their full potential.
But if you like Arnold instead, it'll be even better :)
@lokenath123 , my mom is German, she proposed my father when she was 16 & my father 32, my mother belongs from a Protestant (Christian) family, she accepted Islam by her own will, not by force, she dresses covering her whole body as per told by Islam by her own choice, she hasn't been forced by any muslim or by father, she strictly fulfills all her obligations as a pure muslim.
@taimurdurranii So what? I haven't met your father. He could be much more sensible than you. I am talking about you, do one service for the good of mankind. Either don't marry or if you do, don't teach your children these stupid ideas of yours as science. "Jinns, women's inferiority over men, science is derived from Quran, women are just meant to carry children" etc. etc.
@lokenath123 , Oh Bhai log.... mut'ah is not a concept of Islam at all, mut'ah is what the Shia people do, Shia call themselves muslims but they are not muslims at all, they are only 15% of name saken pseudo muslim population called Shia & 85% are sunnis that are the muslims, Shia'ism is a different religion, they are much worse than the Christians even.
@taimurdurranii Wow! Shias are worse than christians! What a generalization!
That's another problem of you. You generalize everything "women are dumber than men, my family women became moms at 14- so there's no risk in teenage pregnancy blah blah"
Only one person is worse than a 21st century engineer believing in jinns, and that is a 21st century scientist believing in Jinns LOL
@lokenath123 , my father is Ph.D from Hannover University, Germany, he did his post doctorate 3 years back & he too has the same belief what all we muslims have, no different, most of the european countries, US, Canada offered him citizen ship & to work for him as he specializes in the field of aerospace, yet he rejected their offer, he's much more happy living in his backward rural village despite more than half of his in the so call civilized west world. yet his thoughts are totally Islamic
@taimurdurranii you boast about a father and his Ph.D yet you say his thoughts are totally islamic...so what you're saying is he is ignorant enough to believe the errors in koran/myths/comical taught stories, IGNORE the irrefutable facts re evolution, and he supports the obscene human misery/denial of human rights/indecencies/immoralities islam inflicts on its innocent victims
free will LOL...islam has MURDER as penalty for non belief/leaving, and you've been brainwashed LOL
@lokenath123 , as for jins, they too have free will like us humans, jinns also follow religions, some are muslims, some hindus, some christian or jews, but they are invisible to us, they are very powerful, can easily kill a human being, but they aren't as intelligent as humans, the reason we humans being the most superior creature is due to the intelligence God has given us.
@taimurdurranii Friend, well I haven't seen a jinn and nor will you. Because none exist!
I wouldn't have known the dark ages are still present in some human's brains if I hadn't met you! I know tribal people consulted witch doctors to treat diseases because they believed it was some sort of possession.But that was because they didn't have education. But a 21st century engineer believes in this bullshit, unpardonable!
@lokenath123 , As for you saying science contradicting Qur'an, you haven't read Qur'an with proper understanding, you typically read it like others in course of criticizing it, not for actually understanding it, Qur'an is not just a book to be read for once, it has deep meanings. you too like others have Islamophobia, Islam is the only religion that every non-muslim fears just for no good reason, the way you people understand Islam is wrong, you people have made your own perception about Islam
@taimurdurranii More nonsense. There is nothing called Islamophobia, people hate islam because it is the most bullshit of religions.
Why do you keep making assertions without one evidence? These are good stories, but just that, stories. For children to read and laugh at when they grow up.
@taimurdurranii inferior & dumb kid...we dont understand islam wrongly at all....and are you saying science confirms all thats in koran - lets have another laugh!
re 96.2...tell me what the 'deep meaning' is for that, or the 'wife beating' verse which shows how sick islam really is
dont kid yourself...we laugh at islam & word should be 'islamaloathia' the other word was invented by muslims who WANT TO STOP us talking about isla - but we won't
let me assure you islamWILL continue to be exposed
@lokenath123 , suppose i agree with you that women ought to work like men, so the children having both their parents definitely get neglected in such case, by saying women carrying children you mean that your mother shouldn't had taken care of you but should have worked & earned money?? Small children need their mother's attention, the more time a mother spends with their children, the more children are happy & grow up with a healthy sound mind, mother teach her children ethics & manners
@taimurdurranii I never said mothers aren't important to children. They are the most important. But if that mother is the best chess player in the world and doesn't play it, that is a loss to the whole world!
Do you think working mothers don't take care of their children? They do, women multi-task much better than men, there is scientific evidence for that. The child of a working mother will grow up better because his mother will know so much more from her interactions with the world.
@lokenath123 , those children in the West world, having their parents working, have negative impact on the growing children, they start taking drugs, get involved in crimes & become a threat to a society. if the mother is there at home to look after her children, any child doing something wrong, the mother definitely would correct him/her. Islam gives women the highest respect, we have to obey our parents, especially mother as she has to suffer for her children.
@taimurdurranii You are generalizing again.The western world has produced most of the best humans in 'all' disciplines of life.If they were neglected as children how do they produce the best scientists, economists, sportsmen etc? What nonsense!
Islam doesn't give respect to women. Don't repeat that nonsense again.You think women are mentally inferior to men! That's the most disrespectful word you say to a woman! Even saying she's a whore pales in comparison.
islam regards/treats women with contempt...there is NOTHING respectful about males having authority over them, wife beating a male right, adult women requiring male consent for everything, having to provide sex on demand or the degradation of enforced inequality
you ooze the most idiotic and backward nonsense..showing us all how 'inferior' you are as a muslim male...how brainwashed and insecure lol
dont LIE...islam teaches 'non muslims vilest of all beasts"
@lokenath123 , a muslim cannot go to Jannah if he/she parents disrespects & hurts his/her parents & his/her parents aren't pleased of their son/daughter. In Islam we are told to respect elders, whether an elder is a non-muslim, we have to respect him/her, treat him/her nicely. We muslims are not told to hate non-muslims at all, this is against humanity as well as Islamic teachings, human beings are the most beloved creatures of God.
@taimurdurranii muslims parents DONT respect their children...they have healthy tissue chopped off them without need or INFORMED consent (thats abuse), they have them accept being lied to, they don't even allow young adults to make their own decisions in life
Im laughing at your ignorance re mothers who choose to work when children are at school...ARE YOU REALLY AS IGNORANT as you come across?
do you think such causes taking drugs/crime etc...so WHY are both so rampant in your ummah
@lokenath123 , thing is you haven't properly studied Islam, so you have built your own perception about it, by seeing some muslims who act negatively & then you regard their actions with Islam, you can't blame Islam for a muslim doing wrong, if a hindu commits crime, can i say Hindu religion is wrong? I should not blam Hinduism based on the wrong actions of a hindu, should i brother? tell me.
You're giving the argument I refuted already.When Al Qaeda kills innocents in churches,they say,I do it in the name of Allah.When a person who is a christian or hindu commits a crime they don't say "I did it in the name of Christ or Ram".Even if they do,you see what Christ or Ram did in their lives.They didn't do any of those things!But you look at Muhammad and find a raider,slave keeper, pedophile,cutting hands,lashing,stoning etc.They base their violence on a violent religion.
@lokenath123 , no, my father did his Ph.D in FEA (Finite Element Analysis) in the field of aerospace, hi earned his M.S in aerospace engineering from Cranfield University, UK.
if you personally want to confirm from the university yourself, you inquire about
@lokenath123 , i just don't say women are inferior, it is a fact, it is! no matter how hard u cry for that,reality doesn't change,the human population,the muslim side & non-muslim side, both are ruled by men, men are in authority, women may have some executive posts in some organizations, but overall male gender dominates the human population, your saying or my saying that women not being inferior doesn't affects the reality, u like it or not, u accept the fact or not,it won't affect the reality
@taimurdurranii You are right man! I've been a fool wasting your time, should've known better.
1. Jinns exist
2. Women are not as intelligent as men and should be married off as soon as they reach puberty so that they don't bring shame to their families.
3. Islam is the most peaceful religion of all.
All of the above are true, but not here, in "IslamUtopia".It's a new planet where you belong.It doesn't follow the rules of earth, you don't even need oxygen to survive there!
@lokenath123 , any muslim marrying a hindu or any other non-muslim female is prohibited in islam, those muslim men who do so, go against Islam,i don't favor muslim men marrying a hindu or any other non-muslim female at all,it's wrong,he should only stick to a muslim female. again, if a muslim does so, it's his individual & personal action, you don't blame Islam for it. those who kill innocent people in the name of God & Islam are in no way true muslims at all, Islam strictly forbids such actions
@taimurdurranii how well you SHOW US ALL how insecure islam is that it controls by taught fears/punishments AND forbids adult people marrying non muslim....actually muslim males are allowed to marry non muslims, but muslim females (re inequality) don't have same right
we do indeed blame islam for its immorality
and don't lie...islam has murder as penalty for criticising it,non belief,leaving & sicko prick mohammed mURDERED INNOCENTS...so don't delude yourself that islam forbids killing
@lokenath123 , listen, 1st you criticize Islam stating most of falsehood & when i clarify all those misconceptions to u, u tell me not to give u lectures, this means u just mean to criticize Islam irrespective of what it really is about. No one is forcing u to accept islam nor am i killing u or any innocent non-muslim for not becoming a muslim, u were not born in a hindu family by ur own choice nor was i born in a muslim family.
@taimurdurranii When you clarify,clarify with reason and evidence.You just made statements,no sane person believes statements.
I've read Quran,so I don't need you to regurgitate it.I've read few worse books than it,a complete waste of time.
There's nothing to learn from a 21st century misogynistic engineer who believes that Jinns exist and that Quran is the source of all scientific knowledge. You want me to believe in this 'reality'?
You have to have a head for having a 'headache'. Goodbye.
@lokenath123 , Since u do not want to accept things i told u about islam & u deliberately want to believe Islam the way u see it from ur perspective, so be it so, because ur thinking does not make the slightest difference to any thing, it won't affect the reality, u & as well as those others like u keep doing so, i just tried my part of the duty for informing u, taking it or not taking it is not my headache, i'm responsible for myself & u for yours. Bye
@lokenath123 , Even if u were in the 31st century, science wouldn't have been able to keep u from dying, remember "death", death is never going to let u live in here forever, not a single human, so think a bit what will happen when u die, all this so called having gone modern bullshit & blah blah they too aren't sure what happens after death. Death ends it all for this world's existence, no one is going to return back here to tell u what is there after death.
@taimurdurranii I am not afraid of death, it's inevitable. Science never aimed to obliterate death as that would make human existence and development impossible. I don't want to hear more bullshit from a Jinn believer.
@lokenath123 , as for modernism is concerned, i'd just give 1 example of the famous singer Cat Stevens who had this famous UK band "rolling stones" he earned a huge reputation & earned lots of wealth, he was modern no wonder of course, while he was at his peak of his career, people loving him all around the world, he accepted Islam (at age of 29) & became muslim, now having a muslim name Yousaf Islam, no one forced him to become a muslim, u ask him why did he switch to such an old time religion
@taimurdurranii What the hell, Carl Stevens is the most intelligent man alive? No wonder your mullahs must have fed him this sugar candy version of Islam , not its barbaric true violent face
@lokenath123 , as for the female inferiority part, i stated that on general fact, u advocating females being equal to the masculine gender, u try to prove that to the world, tell them that the masculine gender does not dominate the human population, change the
i challenge u to change the system & bring on the feminine gender to have the dominance or equality rule the world with men,50-50. From the very start of the human race till now human population is dominated by men. Talk fact! not theories
@taimurdurranii I don't have to change the system, the system is changing. There is much more representation of women in every sphere of life, from education to business to science to performing and non performing arts, literature to administration, army what not?
It will not change completely unless people like you cling to their prehistoric beliefs, and keep your women locked in your homes.You jinn believing misogynist don't have a right to talk about facts. You don't have a clue!
@lokenath123 , as for women in Islam, they are said to be equal to men, but having a different role & responsibility than the men. Male gender by nature are born tough compared to female gender, so male having tougher physique are meant being capable to do hard work & sustain to it than females, so male are to earn money, give their earnings to their respective females so that females would spend it wisely, run their homes with it.
@taimurdurranii I don't give a fuck about gender equality in Islam. A religion which says women are dumber to men is pathetic. It is worth flushing down in the toilets along with other waste.
Whatever you say to support the gender equality in Islam is useless just because of this simple fact.
@lokenath123 , 1400 years back, at times of Muhammad PBUH, the ignorant non-muslims in Arab used to bury females alive, whenever they knew that a female child took birth, she would've been buried alive. Islam stopped those non-muslims from doing this evil practice. Islam is strictly against abortion, while in this recent so called enlightened age, in india around 7,00,000 abortions occur every year and 20,000 woman die in abortion related cases, Islam being against it is barbaric??
@taimurdurranii Islam is not just against abortion, it is against a lot of other things - contraceptives, gays, jews, idol-worshippers, women socializing, apostacy. The list is endless. These things make it barbaric.
Abortion is done for a lot of things other than female infanticide. It might be life saving for a teenager who doesn't want the child or even for married couples who don't. Plain banning it is wrong, it has to be conditional.
@taimurdurranii Your point out a social evil like female infanticide and say Islam was against it.Then you ask me whether Islam is barbaric based on this.How lame!
Have I said anywhere that Islam was barbaric because it is against female infanticide? Then why do you waste my time citing that?
Please,you have demonstrated pathetic logic,don't extend your misery.Female infanticide occurs in India because of poverty and lack of education.Telling them to believe in Islamic fairy tales is even worse.
@lokenath123 , your consideration for me being not educated does not make any affect or any slightest difference to me or anyone, so what's the point? u considering urself to be educated because thinking of urself being the one with the modern latest up to date advanced mentality does not backup the reason why those westerns non-muslims who grew up in such a civilized developed sophisticated society, living a modern life style & thinking yet embrace islam.
@taimurdurranii You are not educated because you believe in things without evidence. Life style and the crap you are mentioning are not the reasons I cited.Don't invent reasons for me,I gave you the reason number of times.Honestly people like you aren't worth talking to.My only advice is don't marry and if you do,allow your child to have an independent perspective.Don't cloud her mind with bullshit of Islam,because if God existed he won't pardon you for doing it.
@lokenath123 , why do i have to repeat each & every time that islam DOES NOT PERMIT KILLING OF ANY INNOCENT HUMAN BEING! irrespective of gender, whether they be gay or normal people. why do u deliberately cling to this self perceived concept. islam is not a religion meant for muslim, it's a religion for the entire mankind, the whole humanity.
@lokenath123 , as for stating women dumber that's my personal observation so far, show my single statement where i quoted islam saying women are dumber than men. u again deliberately take my personal opinions to islam & then blame islam for it, see this is what the problem is. also that tone u use, those vulgar words u use doesn't makes u educated either, education teaches manners, ethics, u lack that, what sort of an educated person r u?? in no sense u seem to be a sensible person to me
@taimurdurranii I use those words because I am inflamed at finding a person who claims to have received scientific education and believes in stuff he finds no reason to believe in - Jinns etc.You won't find sense in me because you believe in so much nonsense.For you nonsense is sense,so you'll obviously find none in me.
Saying that Islam should be flushed in toilets isn't vulgarity,it's hard reality.Islam doesn't deserve respect from anyone.
@lokenath123 , someone having abortion because of not wanting a child means killing a human being, taking life of that innocent baby inside the womb for the reason person not wanting the child & aborting it justifies to take away the right of life of that baby??
@taimurdurranii Another absurd point. You advocate the right of the child to life.but what life you'll give him by teaching him all this bullshit ideas of Jinns and stuff.I never said abortion is right,I say banning it unconditionally isn't right as well.
@lokenath123 , coming to believe in existence of jinns, science hasn't progressed to that level to prove the existence of jinns yet. Like atoms & the sub atomic particles (neutron, proton, electron etc) didn't exist until the early 19th century when some scientists like Rutherford & other scientists confirmed so by performing certain experiments. Before 19th century when atom's existence wasn't scientifically proven means atoms didn't exist at that time??
@taimurdurranii Hmm and you have progressed beyond science to know that they exist? Have you seen one in your life? What do you base it on when you say "Jinns exist"? Don't you feel ashamed? Of course not, one who is stupid enough to believe women are dumber than men wouldn't have "shame" component in their brains other than the woman's hymen.
This is my last response to you.Don't make me move my fingers for you again please.You are a disgrace to humanity.
@lokenath123 , u deliberately stating islam a sugar coated delusion just shows ur mere contempt for it. The total muslim population is estimated 2.1 billion now & increasing, means 2.1 billion humans are disgrace to humanity. Also as for believing in jinn's existence, there are a lot of well educated & qualified non-muslims who have firm belief in the existence of jinn's. Just because some "Lokenath" thinks so, this huge amount of people are a disgrace & old minded don't get affected in any way
@taimurdurranii Again,you produce horrible logic and waste my time.In the cold war years entire Russia didn't believe Darwin's but Lamarck's theory of evolution because Darwin's theory was labelled as anti-communist.By your logic I can say the entire Russia believed in Lamarckism,and were also increasing in population,so how can so many people be wrong?The fact is that they 'were' wrong.So are muslims.Population doesn't transform a lie into truth.So many people supported Hitler,was he right?
@lokenath123 , oh brother, muslims are not just from now on, muslims have a 1400 years of istory, Russia is just 1 country, muslims reside world wide living in a lot of muslim countries as well as in non-muslim countries, muslims make up 28.73%(increasing) of the total human population, Russia wasn't by that time nor is now, also muslims are a single nation, not limited to physical boundaries.
Why do you keep demonstrating your lack of knowledge?
I was giving you an example to demonstrate that many people believing in something doesn't make that right.Christians,Muslims,Buddhists and Hindus are few billions each.They believe in different things,all of them can't be right.Get your logic straight.
See I am tired of demolishing your logic.Go talk to your "IslamUtopic" friends.I find talking to you neither informative nor interesting.
@lokenath123 , What history does Russia, USA, Germany or any other country have? USA became a country in 1776, Russia became a country in 1533, Russia was a super power from 1982 till 1991, means they had the power for 9 years only & were defeated not by the USA, but by muslims of Afghanistan who had no latest technologies, no atomic bombs etc. USA has been in power from merely 21 years, whereas muslims have the history of ruling the most of the world for centuries (Continues)
@lokenath123 , other than islam or christianity no other religion ruled most of the world, whether it be hinduism, buddhism, jews, or atheists. islam & christianity are the 2 major religion on earth, both having a history of having wars, christians mostly being badly defeated.
@taimurdurranii True, because it is not the business of religion to rule.It's only muslims who think that way.Christians thought like that but most of them have reformed.
Yeah,muslims defeated christians always.That's why most countries having christian populations are the most developed countres and no muslim country is there even in the top-20.
This is why I say you are living in "IslamUtopia",a planet where untrue is true,wrong is right,west is east,Islam is peaceful.
@lokenath123 , and i don't have to progress beyond science to believe in jinns' existence as i've encountered them in reality already, bad experience of course. i don't need science to tell me about jinns, just because u may have not encountered any jinn yet, that's why u say so
@lokenath123 , what will i get of sharing my experience about jinns? that doesn't helps me, & may God keep me safe from them. as for everything i told u so far about islam u quote as the sugar coated religion, i can't convince u through mere texting, it's better u talk to Zakir Naik face to face or ask him all thses questions in any of his lectures proving him wrong, try to humiliate him in front of the huge crowd, if u think u r being right, if u r right it's ur duty to let other people know
@taimurdurranii I don't need to prove Zakir wrong.A 15 year old who has read science knows he's a buffoon talking nonsense.
There is no need to humiliate him, he's already an embarrassment. He is so afraid that he does only lectures nowadays, no debates, not even talk shows. Embarrassing him won't stop him.
@lokenath123 You asked him why do we need "a" religion, why not just believe in good values and leave out the religion?
To which he gave a really good answer, "who would decide what is morally good?" is mini-skirt good? or is modesty/hijab good? is unlimited number of boyfriends or girlfriends good? or having four wives is good?
Simply put, one who cant accept God's law, will he/she accept a man-made law?
I think he did demolish your "points" for not having religion.
@Alhazen965 No he didn't.You think his arguments are good because you and him hold the same premises. :)
If you think there is the need of a holy book to make people 'moral', you think people themselves are unable to do that.
You can use simple reason to answer those questions.Let's try."Is mini skirts good?" Answer: If someone wants to wear it, yes. "Is hijab good?" Answer: if someone wants to wear it,then it is" "Unlimited number of boyfriends/girlfriends?" Ans:"With consent and safety, yes"
@lokenath123 I fail to understand why having unlimited number of girlfriends or boyfriends is fine *with consent* but having four wives is not fine where the consent has to be given not once not twice but THREE TIMES! Why the hypocrisy?
>morals: He gave a perfect description of how morals vary from culture to culture and individual to individual. For example, nudity...some think its good...some think its bad...who is right? Given your logic both will be right...that is playing with fire.
@Alhazen965 You fail to understand why polyandry is wrong because you don't see the stats.I gave you the reason, there aren't 4 women to every man in the world.So practising polyandry will leave out men who don't have a wife.If polygyny is also allowed,I don't have a problem with polyandry.
Religion doesn't solve the problem of morals.It merely creates large chunks of different morals rather than a universal moral.Secondly,it assumes that religion gives true morals,which has no basis.Perfect LOL
@lokenath123 You ignored my question completely!! Why are you against multiple wives but not multiple sexual relationships? (Given both get consents). Why the bias?
You said polygamy is fine, if polyandry is also allowed! It sounds like your problem is NOT polygamy, but the BAN on polyandry in Islam, right?
Well, dont try to make it an issue of equality, because its not. Polygamy and polyandry are two different animals under Islam.
@Alhazen965 My logic is simple. If your mind isn't bright enough to get it, I can't help you.
Multiple sexual relations is ok if consent is present, and safety is practised.It is not limited to men or women, just based on mutual consent and knowledge about risks.
Polyandry can be allowed if polygyny is allowed too! Only polyandry is hypocrisy because it is partial to men. If women are interested in more than one man, she's not allowed.
@lokenath123 You have completely missed the point on relationships between the two genders in Islam. First of all, polygamy has a position of "allowed" in Islam not "mandatory". Secondly, in Islam, men have to support the family, a woman can choose to but she doesnt have to. Thirdly, the root reason for polygamy to be allowed in Islam is so men can support widows and women who cant find support otherwise, i know people abuse the law, but thats not the reason for the law.
@Alhazen965 I have not said it is mandatory. Why do you invent words?
Widows can get married to men who are unmarried, why do they need to get married to already married men?Sounds stupid.In Quran nowhere this limitation is imposed, don't cook up stories.If Quran had written "men are allowed more than one wife, if the second wife is shelterless or supportless" maybe I could have thought positively about it. It doesn't.
@lokenath123 So since women are not burdened in Islam with supporting a family financially, therefore a widower shouldnt need a woman to support himself.
Islam has fixed the duties of men and women in Islam, and majority of the laws regarding the relationships between the genders conform to those duties.
Naturally, men are more aggressive than women, so they take charge of the relationship. Its a word-wide phenomenon, not just in muslims.
@Alhazen965 Your world may be men-dominated, look at how many women are CEOs of companies, heads of states, diplomats, scientists, sportswomen. If you keep women confined to her room and don't let her mingle freely in society how can she progress?
Many studies of the male and female brain show women are more capable in multitasking, make better managers, are more right brained thinkers. They have much more role to play in society than to just bear children.
@Alhazen965 CONT..of less women than men,so odds are more against you,but sparing you for simplicity) 3.4 billion/4000 = .85 million males will have more than one wife.If they have two(the minimum),almost a million guys are without wives(since girlfriends or polygyny aren't allowed in Islam! If they have three wives, 1.7 million guys don't have wives.If they have four wives, 2.55 million guys don't have wives.
This is your case,assuming accuracy of 1:4000 stats will remain constant.
@lokenath123 Every species has a dominant gender! For humans its the male gender, accept it and get on with reality.
My world? LOL You are showing naivety by saying the world is not male-dominated. Have you ever heard of male rights groups? LOL
>polygyny: I wouldnt try to teach you islam if you werent here trying to defame it, capice? You have no understanding of gender relationships in Islam or its wisdom, all you want to do is talk about one verse without context.
@Alhazen965 I understand gender relationship in Islam,which is primitive.Women belong to men like cattle, that's good for barbarians but no good for modern society.
I won't accept your assertions "For humans dominant is male gender" LOL Women rights group exist because some morons have denied women equal rights in the past.Islam still does that.
"I wouldnt try to teach you islam if you werent here trying to defame it" LOL I don't have to defame Islam.You need honor to be dishonored,it has none.
@Alhazen965 And it will be better if you go and teach Islam to Al Qaeda, Hijbul Mujahideen,Lashkar e Toiba,Al Jihad and the likes instead of me.They talk of violence not me. I speak against ideologies which are crap, I don't advocate violence against any group of people.
@lokenath123 I am not a mathematician but common sense tells me that more males die year around just because women are less likely to be in dangerous environments. Count all the soldiers, workers, drivers, miners, pilots, and God knows whatelse, and look at the ratio of females vs males...worldwide...you will know why more males are born but why more females end up surviving.
When the business gets dirty then women dont want equality in that business..they would rather be CEO's.
@Alhazen965 That's not common sense that's flawed reasoning that is taught by halfwits like Zakir Naik.Go and check any world census figuers,there are millions of more men than women already.And there are more old women than old men because women live longer, which implies there are even less young women compared to young men.You can check stats according to age which also supports me.These stats render polyandry impractical and creating more gender imbalance.
@lokenath123 See, once again, to me and the other 1.5 billion muslims in the world, the best role model is Prophet Muhammad PBUH. To you, it may not be the case, but to us, it is.
We can see "reason" behind his wisdom, and we agree with that reason. You, on the other hand, disagree with his reason. And similarly, I and other muslims, disagree with YOUR reason.
The whole point of Zakir Naik is that once everything is left to each person's own reason, STRONG cultures with morals will decline.
@Alhazen965 I know that you think Mohammed is your best role model.So what?
Strong cultures with morals will decline - don't know what that means.If strong cultures decline, they weren't strong to start with or have been weakened over time.Decline happens due to own weakness, in some cases circumstances do force decline.But for a n entire culture to decline without it own weaknesses is almost impossible.
@lokenath123 >morals: I think you are not interested in accepting the fact that one person's morals will always be different than the other.
So who in this case will you follow? and I already know your answer is "use your reason".
Well, what if i dont agree with your "reason"? What if like "my" reason better?
Cultures (morals/traditions) are based on widely accepted authority, not personal opinion...if personal opinion replaces widely accepted authority then chaos will follow.
@Alhazen965 You don't understand the difference between reason and opinion?
Opinions don't make laws,reasons do.
The debate is not that.My argument is that religion doesn't lead to uniformity of morals.Maybe it creates 50000 opinions instead of 7 billion.But those 50000 aren't necessarily better than 7 billion.Religions end doesn't mean countries cease to exist.People will elect the best among them,and they will decide the laws.If they don't like the laws,they will be changed through debate.
@lokenath123 >morals: I hate say but your understanding is very impractical, i should say divorced of reality. Of course, in an ideal world people would come to the table and debate their reasons or morals...but the real world out there is not like that.
People dont like to listen a single word from the opposition let alone having long lengthy debates.
The little bit morals that we have are not from debates but widely accepted authorities...remove that and invite chaos.
@Alhazen965 I have just proved what is impractical LOL I am listening to your words, that is not because I read it from some religion.If a civilization is immoral,it will go to its extinction.Morals will evolve for survival.This is sociology,not imagination.Morals that we have today are because we found it to help our survival.
To assume that everyone will go and start murdering if religion goes is absurd.Even if they do it,they'll realize their folly and stop,because it won't help survival.
@lokenath123 You are putting a great show of your naivety by denying a simple fact, that our world is male dominated. Tells me a lot about how much you know of reality. You are an indian, and you are denying that world is male dominated, thats sad and funny at the same time.
The reason we have "women rights groups" in every country is because men are the dominant gender and they always try to deny women any rights. Why dont we have "men rights groups" then if men are not dominant?
@Alhazen965 Resorting to calling me naive won't win you arguments.I never disagreed that most of the world is male dominated.But I also gave the reason, women were not allowed the same rights as men.You also seem to agree when you say "men are the dominant gender and they always try to deny women any rights". Is that good or do you recommend it?
Not very long ago whites dominated blacks,does that mean blacks are any less intelligent or able in general?
@lokenath123 >polygyny: You have to be out of your mind to say that men dont die more than women. Do women die more than men in war, murder, accidents, injuries, and work? If you say yes than God help you because you are blind to reality.
Tell me on any given day, are women facing more danger from the dangerous elements of life or men? If you knew any better, you would say men. Ask anyone on the street if you dont beleive and they will say men.
"You have to be out of your mind to say that men dont die more than women."Another ad hominem,no arguments,no facts.Can you show me a single sentence where I said that?You can't.Your arguments are memorized and you have to fall back on them when I present a counter-argument.
I simply said,go and check world male:female ratio.Apply the maths I worked out for you and see for yourself.These facts demonstrate that regardless of death rates,the sex ratio can't allow polyandry.It'll cause imbalance.
@lokenath123 >polygyny: so your "logical" argument is that "it'll cause imbalance"?
Hmm..you did some extreme math in a wiz and came to conclusion that a practice that gave stranded women a better chance at finding someone to support them is "no good" because if "the whole planet" practiced it "It'll cause imbalance"!
Some logic you got there! First of all, the whole planet is not going to practice it, and secondly Islam recommends only one wife but allows upto 4 WHERE needed.
@Alhazen965 Polygyny:Islam doesn't say WHERE.Those situations are created by you to make the polygyny bit sound less awful. LOL
Polygyny in Islam is only to help stranded women?Write that into the Quran then,so that the evil practise is only followed when without it something more evil could happen.Currently it says "Marry 1,2,3,4 but if you cant do justice marry 1"
I didn't come to a conclusion.I proved to you by math that's obvious to a 10 year old kid.If you don't get that,I can't help you.
@lokenath123 >Polygyny: As I have already explained to you that your issue is not polygyny. You yourself said that polygyny is fine if polyandry is also allowed.
Your problem is that you are nit-picking for issues to imply that Islam oppresses women, but you fail to realize that you have no understanding of inequality.
People like you think that being able to have sex in public is "freedom" without understanding the ills it will bring to the society.
@Alhazen965 Yes I repeat again polygyny is fine if polyandry is also fine.If you have one,have both.Only one will cause imbalance as I've proved already.
If two adults have consensual sex,it's their matter.Now you'll say I'm contradicting myself because a man can marry multiple women with consent in Islam and I was objecting to that.But my objection was that Islam won't allow a woman to have multiple husbands if all of them give consent!That's the differential treatment.
@lokenath123 >Polygyny: To people like you and the freedoms like those, muslim women say that you are welcome to keep your freedoms to yourself we dont need it.
To muslims, bikini is not a measure of "freedom", its a sign of erosion, a culture that objectifies women as sexual objects, that uses women as an selling tactic. To us it is the worst society imaginable, where women can be referred to as "bitches".
You guys need some serious introspection before you go around preaching.
@Alhazen965 I'll explain where you are wrong in the women clothing issue.
The women who wear bikini aren't forced to.In muslim women,a significant proportion are forced to wear hijab.In Iran women are tortured for not wearing hijab properly in public.In US or Europe no one will arrest a woman for wearing bikini improperly.
It's alright if your women don't want to wear bikinis,no one's asked them to.But the idea that women in bikini are bitches is just wrong,because that's normal out there.
@Alhazen965 Talking of introspection,look around the muslim countries and try to make their living conditions better instead of mindlessly shouting "Islamic society is the best".Look at the countries under Islamic law,I've spoken to people from there who are fed up with their lives and want to escape,especially women.Stop living in a delusion,IslamUtopia is what I call it.Islam needs lots of reforms before it's even called a humanist faith,let alone the best.
@lokenath123 >morals: Almost every successful civilization we know is based on religion, a coincidence or a necessity? I would say necessity.
You are listening to me because you have the ability to listen to opposition, does that mean majority is like that? Whenever we talk we talk about the "rule" not the "exception". The rule is that people dont like debates or rational thinking, period. Only people who think people like it are people who are naive and ignorant of reality.
@Alhazen965 "Almost every successful civilization we know is based on religion"Let's understand why.Most early civilizations were 'monarchies'.Monarch was a person who had a 'divine' right to rule the people.
Progress of modern civilizations like the American,'post world war 2' Japanese, or Chinese civilizations isn't based on religion.They progressed due to rapid development of commerce,science and technology.China in fact is communist,God doesn't exist to them.
@lokenath123 >Morals: You are acctually confirming my point that almost every civilization we know is based on religion, you are just adding information to that. I dont understand your point!
Yes modern countries are moving away from religion, but that doesnt mean the civilization that gave birth to those countries were not based on religion. FYI, America or Japan is not a civilization, they are modern countries stemming from old civilizations.
@lokenath123 >morals: Atheism is as old as religion itself, but how many civilizations do we know that were based on atheism? I personally havent heard of any.
The reason being, when you remove "authority" or as you said "monarchs" then there is no "standard" left in the society because everyone is free to choose his right or wrong.
That we all know just cant work, it didnt work for most part of the world history, and it wouldnt work for the future.
@Alhazen965 I didn't say 'remove authority'.Please stop inventing my thoughts for me or there can't be a reasonable debate.
People will choose what authority they want,people will choose their leaders.US is a world leader not because it did its business according to Bible.China is not a world leader because it did business according to Buddha.In infancy of human civilization,religion was important in social context because there wasn't enough knowledge to derive morals upon.Now,it is irrelevant.
@lokenath123 >Morals: If religion has become "irrelevant" then why's the majority of the world still theistic!
I never said that "you said, remove authority", I'm only assuming we need "some moral authority" to replace "religious moral authority" (after we get rid of it)?
After all, religion is the biggest moral authority.
"we will decide", do you mean an "election on moral values"? or an "election for a moral leader"?
@Alhazen965 Morals: If religion has become "irrelevant" then why's the majority of the world still theistic!Firstly majority of the world believing in theism doesn't make religion relevant.Majority of the world once thought the earth is the centre of the universe, but they were WRONG.
But I will answer your question.The reason is most people bring up their children in religious culture.Very few are able to see clearly by getting out of the religious fold which has stuck to them from day 1.
@lokenath123 >Morals: and if you do mean an election, will it be anything like the elections we currently have?
Where media propaganda, false promises, vested interests, lobbyist funded campaigns, profit and above all personal gain is more important then the welfare of the society?
And if you DONT mean "a worldwide election on moral leaders" then please explain what do you mean by "we will decide without removing authority".
I hate to put words in peoples mouth, so let me know.
@Alhazen965 Morals:"I hate to put words in people's mouth".You've put so many in mine,I've already lost count LOL
I mean that morals will be based on what is good for all.What is immoral will self-destruct.e.g if all start murdering we'll lead our species to extinction.That realization will sink in and we'll stop and form a law to ban murder.That's how we got our morals,holy books were our understanding of morals in written form,nothing more.But we know more now,let's write better ones.
@lokenath123 I will correct anyone and everyone who will make false arguments against my religion, its my right to defend my religion, if you dont like it, then dont attack it. Simple as that.
Women in Islam are not oppressed, may be only in the minds of naive and ignorant people like you but not in reality.
Polygyny is allowed under crisis, to protect women, and the same verse that says you can marry four, also says but you should only marry one.
@Alhazen965 "The rule is that people dont like debates or rational thinking,period" Any evidence for that rule?
I am not attacking you,I am criticizing a false ideology.It is not only false,it's also dangerous for humanity.
Women in muslim countries have the lowest human development indicators in the world.Need more proof?
"You should marry only one" was enough.In Arabia at that time there were too many wars.So Mo made the 1:4 rule.But he only planned to rule himself.So he forgot to delete that.
@lokenath123 Your ill-thought-out "rebuttals" make me laugh!
>polygyny: Yes, its true that Islam allows men to marry upto four wives, but as you have already said that you wouldnt mind polygyny if polyandry is also allowed, meaning you dont really have a stand on the "need" of polygamy, you're only trying to nit-pick for issues without understanding the nature of Islamic community, or its wisdom.
Your problem is not polygamy, its religion, eg. belief in a higher deity.
@lokenath123 >Gender_roles: You have understand one thing and understand it real good, men and women are NOT THE SAME. They are EQUAL but NOT THE SAME!!!
Women excel men in some regards and men excel women in some regards. No point in fighting nature.
The western women that have become the icons of "free women". The same women only 49 years back, when America still had some culture and hadnt become a shoe box for humans, needed a man to support themselves and family.
If I had my way I would burn every single place of worship to the ground and throw the preachers or practicers of religion in. Dont need some invented crap to tell me how to behave towards another human being be they white black Asian gay straight whatever So long as they treat me with respect they can eat food at my table anyway peace all
MrRdt1970 3 days ago
"who will decide?" We will decide! Not any book, but we, the people, will decide what is right and what is wrong, and what kind of society we want to live in.
acathode 6 days ago
@acathode Who's stopping people from deciding? Stop dreaming and open your eyes, if we could debate and think over every decision then we wouldnt have accidents mistakes criminals or other mess-ups. Thats why we need law, authority, leaders, police, army, court...so people know right from wrong, because people cant decide for themselves and they have to be told.
Atheism is impractical because it lives in fantasy land of "from nowhere..going nowhere", its like they dont even exist! :D
Alhazen965 6 days ago
XTIANS ARE EVERYDAY RAPED IN CHURCHES AND NURSERIES, 270MILLION XTIANS FUCK THER OWN FAMILIES DAILY YET THEY NEVER MENTION THAT COS OF BRAINWASHING WEN THEY WER RAPED IN CHURCH. THAT BASTARS ST PAUL RAPED HIS 5YRS OLD KID. BIBLE IS FULL OF RAPE AND INCEST YET THEY DNT SAY OWT ABOUT THAT
mrlogicalman1 1 week ago
Comment removed
Alhazen965 1 week ago
Did the Atheist believe in democracry?
julio14335 1 week ago
Did she ask: "Who invented Vitamin C?" or "Where is Kelotrophis Island?"
ene67eer67t 2 weeks ago
waaaaooooo what a man !!!!!! allah bless u mr.naik
shahzadnaeem111 2 weeks ago
This has been flagged as spam show
explain quantum mechanics and wave particle nature of photon and electron... he is asshole
musicalnights 2 weeks ago
@verticalsmurf congratulations on your ovaries!
paulvideo05 3 weeks ago
@paulvideo05 um, congratulations on your testicles? I didn't earn my ovaries, I was born with them.
verticalsmurf 3 weeks ago
@rudeboywaz that's because of sanitation. Toilet paper is not in vogue.
paulvideo05 3 weeks ago
@paulvideo05
hey i didnt get what you said .what was it that i or you rote that i or you replyd to?
rudeboywaz 3 weeks ago
@GodOfUnbelief Religious people should be required by law to wear some sort of religious marking or identification. I am going to start making it my business to make sure that my doctor, dentist, surgeons, are all atheists for now own. I wish we could legally discriminate people's religious preferences. I would make it my business not to hire deists.
paulvideo05 3 weeks ago
Comment removed
paulvideo05 3 weeks ago
watch the video "islam"s roots" and get enlightened
69abhicool 3 weeks ago
and naik does not come face to face in open debates...like in a tv show where they are seated closely and argue simultaneously....
69abhicool 3 weeks ago
@69abhicool He can't debate. A high school debater can beat him in debates, so how can he debate more learned people?
lokenath123 3 weeks ago
@lokenath123 and samie samson has given very shocking facts about his god allah and his mannerisms...which titles mohammad to be a pagan and below stanndards to be called a prophet(for god sake)
69abhicool 3 weeks ago
@69abhicool We don't know who can be called a prophet. Probably, I say probably, he has to be knowledgeable, truthful, fearless, with his actions matching his words. I don't think any of those fit with Muhammad. I don't worry if someone believes him to be a prophet. What I worry about is that person subjugates his wife to a veil, brings up his children with the same dangerous ideas, like my friend taimur here, according to what that prophet said.
lokenath123 3 weeks ago
@lokenath123 i believe firmly that the very knowledge gained ny the sages through meditation ...was a series of knowledge transfer from the god to the narada muni and then to his disciples and then to the gandharvas or yakshas and then finally to the sages...in this cource of transfer which was done orally not written as per the tradition . during this the contents through ages got depletd as humans tend to forget and we have retained this very little amout which we get to read ...
69abhicool 3 weeks ago
@lokenath123 , what do you mean? no human wrote Qur'an from his own mind, whatever that is in the written form has been sent by God, humans just transformed it into text form, not adding a single word of their own, Qur'an doesn't needs research, it already has told what exists, i.e. Jins, Angles etc, science haven't proven the existence of Jins (demons, creatures made of fire, having free will as we humans do but inferior human beings & invisible to us, physically very powerful) (continued)
taimurdurranii 3 weeks ago
@taimurdurranii That's your assumption that Quran is the word of God. But the logic using which you concluded that modern science has been derived from Quran because there were muslim scientists before modern scientists, the same logic can also be used to say Quran was derived from Greek and Roman scholars because they existed before Quran was written. And Quran has very few scientific facts, none of which were unknown to man at that time. It's obviously written by humans.
lokenath123 3 weeks ago
@lokenath123 , So i pray may a jin (demon) possess your body & then you cry & pledge the scientists to remove the jin from your body, that of course will be fun
taimurdurranii 3 weeks ago
@taimurdurranii Yah, an engineer in 21st century believing in jinns. Your science courses have chapters on jinns too? LOL
lokenath123 3 weeks ago
@lokenath123 , even the most able & smartest doctor wouldn't be able to help you, they will consider you having mental disorder, or having dual personality syndrome etc, as the modern science hasn't reached that advanced level to prove Jins exist.
taimurdurranii 3 weeks ago
@lokenath123 , a man beating his wife is regarded as a shameful act in Islam, our Prophet Muhammad PBUH never beat any of his wives. Islam says to be nice to your wives, don't beat them, don't torture them, Allah is pleased those men who love their wives, be polite & patient with them, take care of them, fulfill all their needs. What you said is contrary to all this. This is your own view you have about Islam, your wrong understanding about it
taimurdurranii 3 weeks ago
@taimurdurranii I never asked you to lecture me on Islam. No sane person requires a lecture on Islam to descend into morbid hysteria. So please don't. I have already said that whatever you said was right in a new planet "IslamUtopia", where man even doesn't need oxygen to live.
lokenath123 3 weeks ago
@taimurdurranii And perhaps you are replying to what proudfemale is typing, because I said nothing about muslim men beating wives. I'd give anything for you to end this pitiful conversation, it's painful to know a 21st century guy who calls himself an engineer and then says he believes in Jinns.
lokenath123 3 weeks ago
@lokenath123 , that is not only Cat Stevens becoming a muslim, Muhammad Ali & Mike Tyson the boxing champions, the hollywood actors Chris Tucker & Ice Cube, Jermaine Jackson brother of Micheal Jackson for instance no wonder were definitely aware of the non-muslim world stating Islam as being a barbaric & violent religion, yet they became muslims, why? you ask them, all of them have money, they grew up in the modern society, in the developed countries, not in some backward developing country
taimurdurranii 3 weeks ago
@taimurdurranii
LOL some celebrities have adopted Islam doesn't make it a peaceful religion. Being a celebrity doesn't make you a supreme rational being.Why don't you talk about all the celebrities who have left Islam and campaign against its barbarism?
Islam says gays should be killed if therapy doesn't cure them. If these celebrities support such a religion which openly advocates hate against people because of their personal sexual preferences,their brains are closer to chimps than humans.
lokenath123 3 weeks ago
@lokenath123 , every man & woman before accepting Islam, from engineers to highly qualified doctors to scientists, already know the way Islam is negatively portrayed by the media & other sources, they haven't been secluded & been kept in caves so that they don't know people saying Islam being the shit etc etc etc religion. They are fully aware of this, they are not stupid, despite of being brought up in the modern society, they accept a belief that is 1400 years old & follow it.
taimurdurranii 3 weeks ago
@taimurdurranii No engineers and scientists can be stupid, your own life is an example of that.
Degrees don't give you education, education is supposed to give you a rational bent of mind, not close your eyes to reason. That's what has happened to you and your dad, so I don't consider people like you educated at all.
lokenath123 3 weeks ago
@lokenath123 , islam kills apostates and gays if they don't respond to therapy is your own belief, utter nonsense, a muslim can only kill a non-muslim until & unless that non-muslim person is a threat to his/her life,only in the act of self defence,like any other normal human would do to save his/her life.All those non-muslims are permitted to kill if they become threat to islam by either killing innocent muslims or attacking a muslim country in order to sub due islam.
taimurdurranii 3 weeks ago
@taimurdurranii Lol
So you are saying Islam doesn't kill apostates? LOL
It isn't true Islam you are talking about,it's the sugar coated version that's used to delude people to convert.I haven't seen 'one' of your 'so called' scholars deny it.They also call gays as people 'wrongly wired' or something in their heads.Gays have been hanged in muslim countries.
See I am wasting time with you,you have been fed too much rubbish from childhood to have a meaningful conversion with.
lokenath123 3 weeks ago
@lokenath123 , I am not God, what he chooses to do, he knows the best, nor you or i could assert the reason behind what God does, he's the creator, he's the one with perfect wisdom & knowledge, I can't answer you on behalf of God since i don't possess any knowledge equal to God, like normal human beings i have limited range of thinking power (continued)
taimurdurranii 3 weeks ago
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@taimurdurranii Okay, so again you have given no reason of believing in Allah. But you are giving me this lure of Paradise if I believed in him, at the cost that I should abandon my free thinking which tells me that Allah is just bullshit and the Quran is a hateful book with very little sense in it.
I am sorry, that's too big a price that you are asking. I think I am on this earth to find truth with reason to believe in it. And if there were a God he will love me more for it.
lokenath123 3 weeks ago
@lokenath123 , humans utilize 5% to 6% of their total brain, we will be using 100% of our brain in the hereafter where we all will see the angels, God will be there judging & deciding who'll go to hell & who has to enter Jannah. As for scientific knowledge is concerned it's not perfect, it has developed through ages & it is fully supporting the fact that this whole system of this universe is operated by 1 supreme Creator.
taimurdurranii 3 weeks ago
@taimurdurranii That are just assertions with no evidence. Science has not supported 1% of the hypothesis that there is a supreme creator. Rather almost all evidence till date go against a supreme creator.
Perhaps your science school teaches a line out of Hamid-Al-Ghazali who believed that mathematics is word of the devil and led to the downfall of the entire Islamic academia, reduced Islam from a flourishing culture to a Titanic whose future is as black as the bottom of the atlantic ocean.
lokenath123 3 weeks ago
@taimurdurranii
Whatever you do, don't teach your children, when you have them, such dangerous ideas that the boys among them are smarter than the girls. Or that there is a creator to whom they must submit to without letting them examine themselves whether such a being actually exists or not. You will do grave injustice to them, and perhaps psychological damage to the girls among them who might never reach their full potential.
But if you like Arnold instead, it'll be even better :)
lokenath123 3 weeks ago
@lokenath123 , my mom is German, she proposed my father when she was 16 & my father 32, my mother belongs from a Protestant (Christian) family, she accepted Islam by her own will, not by force, she dresses covering her whole body as per told by Islam by her own choice, she hasn't been forced by any muslim or by father, she strictly fulfills all her obligations as a pure muslim.
taimurdurranii 3 weeks ago
@taimurdurranii So what? I haven't met your father. He could be much more sensible than you. I am talking about you, do one service for the good of mankind. Either don't marry or if you do, don't teach your children these stupid ideas of yours as science. "Jinns, women's inferiority over men, science is derived from Quran, women are just meant to carry children" etc. etc.
lokenath123 3 weeks ago
@lokenath123 , Oh Bhai log.... mut'ah is not a concept of Islam at all, mut'ah is what the Shia people do, Shia call themselves muslims but they are not muslims at all, they are only 15% of name saken pseudo muslim population called Shia & 85% are sunnis that are the muslims, Shia'ism is a different religion, they are much worse than the Christians even.
taimurdurranii 3 weeks ago
@taimurdurranii Wow! Shias are worse than christians! What a generalization!
That's another problem of you. You generalize everything "women are dumber than men, my family women became moms at 14- so there's no risk in teenage pregnancy blah blah"
Only one person is worse than a 21st century engineer believing in jinns, and that is a 21st century scientist believing in Jinns LOL
lokenath123 3 weeks ago
@lokenath123 , my father is Ph.D from Hannover University, Germany, he did his post doctorate 3 years back & he too has the same belief what all we muslims have, no different, most of the european countries, US, Canada offered him citizen ship & to work for him as he specializes in the field of aerospace, yet he rejected their offer, he's much more happy living in his backward rural village despite more than half of his in the so call civilized west world. yet his thoughts are totally Islamic
taimurdurranii 3 weeks ago
@taimurdurranii So you father believes in Jinns after having a Ph.D? What did he do his Ph.D in? Islamic Philosophy?
lokenath123 3 weeks ago
@taimurdurranii you boast about a father and his Ph.D yet you say his thoughts are totally islamic...so what you're saying is he is ignorant enough to believe the errors in koran/myths/comical taught stories, IGNORE the irrefutable facts re evolution, and he supports the obscene human misery/denial of human rights/indecencies/immoralities islam inflicts on its innocent victims
free will LOL...islam has MURDER as penalty for non belief/leaving, and you've been brainwashed LOL
proudfemale 3 weeks ago
@lokenath123 , as for jins, they too have free will like us humans, jinns also follow religions, some are muslims, some hindus, some christian or jews, but they are invisible to us, they are very powerful, can easily kill a human being, but they aren't as intelligent as humans, the reason we humans being the most superior creature is due to the intelligence God has given us.
taimurdurranii 3 weeks ago
@taimurdurranii Friend, well I haven't seen a jinn and nor will you. Because none exist!
I wouldn't have known the dark ages are still present in some human's brains if I hadn't met you! I know tribal people consulted witch doctors to treat diseases because they believed it was some sort of possession.But that was because they didn't have education. But a 21st century engineer believes in this bullshit, unpardonable!
lokenath123 3 weeks ago
@taimurdurranii LOL
Im laughing so much here...youre saying jinns also accept being lied to and actually follow religions eh LOL
what on earth makes you think a jinn is powerful or can kill...and you're human but NOT intelligent
WHAT god...there isn't a shred of proof of any god/allah AND koran proves the hoax & how muslims are lied to
your ignorance is childishly pitiful..and you boasted about male intellect LOL
you poor dumb delusioned wimp - too SCARED to face facts,truths even
proudfemale 3 weeks ago
@lokenath123 , As for you saying science contradicting Qur'an, you haven't read Qur'an with proper understanding, you typically read it like others in course of criticizing it, not for actually understanding it, Qur'an is not just a book to be read for once, it has deep meanings. you too like others have Islamophobia, Islam is the only religion that every non-muslim fears just for no good reason, the way you people understand Islam is wrong, you people have made your own perception about Islam
taimurdurranii 3 weeks ago
@taimurdurranii More nonsense. There is nothing called Islamophobia, people hate islam because it is the most bullshit of religions.
Why do you keep making assertions without one evidence? These are good stories, but just that, stories. For children to read and laugh at when they grow up.
lokenath123 3 weeks ago
@taimurdurranii inferior & dumb kid...we dont understand islam wrongly at all....and are you saying science confirms all thats in koran - lets have another laugh!
re 96.2...tell me what the 'deep meaning' is for that, or the 'wife beating' verse which shows how sick islam really is
dont kid yourself...we laugh at islam & word should be 'islamaloathia' the other word was invented by muslims who WANT TO STOP us talking about isla - but we won't
let me assure you islamWILL continue to be exposed
proudfemale 3 weeks ago
@lokenath123 , suppose i agree with you that women ought to work like men, so the children having both their parents definitely get neglected in such case, by saying women carrying children you mean that your mother shouldn't had taken care of you but should have worked & earned money?? Small children need their mother's attention, the more time a mother spends with their children, the more children are happy & grow up with a healthy sound mind, mother teach her children ethics & manners
taimurdurranii 3 weeks ago
@taimurdurranii I never said mothers aren't important to children. They are the most important. But if that mother is the best chess player in the world and doesn't play it, that is a loss to the whole world!
Do you think working mothers don't take care of their children? They do, women multi-task much better than men, there is scientific evidence for that. The child of a working mother will grow up better because his mother will know so much more from her interactions with the world.
lokenath123 3 weeks ago
@lokenath123 , those children in the West world, having their parents working, have negative impact on the growing children, they start taking drugs, get involved in crimes & become a threat to a society. if the mother is there at home to look after her children, any child doing something wrong, the mother definitely would correct him/her. Islam gives women the highest respect, we have to obey our parents, especially mother as she has to suffer for her children.
taimurdurranii 3 weeks ago
@taimurdurranii You are generalizing again.The western world has produced most of the best humans in 'all' disciplines of life.If they were neglected as children how do they produce the best scientists, economists, sportsmen etc? What nonsense!
Islam doesn't give respect to women. Don't repeat that nonsense again.You think women are mentally inferior to men! That's the most disrespectful word you say to a woman! Even saying she's a whore pales in comparison.
lokenath123 3 weeks ago
@taimurdurranii purleeze...dont LIE
islam regards/treats women with contempt...there is NOTHING respectful about males having authority over them, wife beating a male right, adult women requiring male consent for everything, having to provide sex on demand or the degradation of enforced inequality
you ooze the most idiotic and backward nonsense..showing us all how 'inferior' you are as a muslim male...how brainwashed and insecure lol
dont LIE...islam teaches 'non muslims vilest of all beasts"
proudfemale 3 weeks ago
@lokenath123 , a muslim cannot go to Jannah if he/she parents disrespects & hurts his/her parents & his/her parents aren't pleased of their son/daughter. In Islam we are told to respect elders, whether an elder is a non-muslim, we have to respect him/her, treat him/her nicely. We muslims are not told to hate non-muslims at all, this is against humanity as well as Islamic teachings, human beings are the most beloved creatures of God.
taimurdurranii 3 weeks ago
@taimurdurranii Islam and respect are poles apart.
Don't give me that sugar coated version of Islam.
Teach that to the Ladens,the Taliban,lashkar e Toiba,Al Qaeda, Hijbul Mujahideen.
Then probably the world will start loving muslims instead of hating them.
lokenath123 3 weeks ago
@taimurdurranii muslims parents DONT respect their children...they have healthy tissue chopped off them without need or INFORMED consent (thats abuse), they have them accept being lied to, they don't even allow young adults to make their own decisions in life
Im laughing at your ignorance re mothers who choose to work when children are at school...ARE YOU REALLY AS IGNORANT as you come across?
do you think such causes taking drugs/crime etc...so WHY are both so rampant in your ummah
proudfemale 3 weeks ago
@lokenath123 , thing is you haven't properly studied Islam, so you have built your own perception about it, by seeing some muslims who act negatively & then you regard their actions with Islam, you can't blame Islam for a muslim doing wrong, if a hindu commits crime, can i say Hindu religion is wrong? I should not blam Hinduism based on the wrong actions of a hindu, should i brother? tell me.
taimurdurranii 3 weeks ago
@taimurdurranii
You're giving the argument I refuted already.When Al Qaeda kills innocents in churches,they say,I do it in the name of Allah.When a person who is a christian or hindu commits a crime they don't say "I did it in the name of Christ or Ram".Even if they do,you see what Christ or Ram did in their lives.They didn't do any of those things!But you look at Muhammad and find a raider,slave keeper, pedophile,cutting hands,lashing,stoning etc.They base their violence on a violent religion.
lokenath123 3 weeks ago
@lokenath123 , no, my father did his Ph.D in FEA (Finite Element Analysis) in the field of aerospace, hi earned his M.S in aerospace engineering from Cranfield University, UK.
if you personally want to confirm from the university yourself, you inquire about
Dr. Prof Iftikhar Ahmad Durrani
taimurdurranii 3 weeks ago
@lokenath123 , i just don't say women are inferior, it is a fact, it is! no matter how hard u cry for that,reality doesn't change,the human population,the muslim side & non-muslim side, both are ruled by men, men are in authority, women may have some executive posts in some organizations, but overall male gender dominates the human population, your saying or my saying that women not being inferior doesn't affects the reality, u like it or not, u accept the fact or not,it won't affect the reality
taimurdurranii 3 weeks ago
@taimurdurranii LOL you pitiful fool
islam teaches women are intellectually inferior, males superior etc, but if you had ANY brains you would know this is absolute nonsense
Im sure you know some very dumb males (and you show us your stupidity) and some very bright females
so kid, re errors in koran staring us all in face, WHY do you believe them lol
tell me, is 96.2 accurate ...yes or no
proudfemale 3 weeks ago
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lokenath123 3 weeks ago
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@taimurdurranii You are right man! I've been a fool wasting your time, should've known better.
1. Jinns exist
2. Women are not as intelligent as men and should be married off as soon as they reach puberty so that they don't bring shame to their families.
3. Islam is the most peaceful religion of all.
All of the above are true, but not here, in "IslamUtopia".It's a new planet where you belong.It doesn't follow the rules of earth, you don't even need oxygen to survive there!
lokenath123 3 weeks ago
@lokenath123 , any muslim marrying a hindu or any other non-muslim female is prohibited in islam, those muslim men who do so, go against Islam,i don't favor muslim men marrying a hindu or any other non-muslim female at all,it's wrong,he should only stick to a muslim female. again, if a muslim does so, it's his individual & personal action, you don't blame Islam for it. those who kill innocent people in the name of God & Islam are in no way true muslims at all, Islam strictly forbids such actions
taimurdurranii 3 weeks ago
@taimurdurranii how well you SHOW US ALL how insecure islam is that it controls by taught fears/punishments AND forbids adult people marrying non muslim....actually muslim males are allowed to marry non muslims, but muslim females (re inequality) don't have same right
we do indeed blame islam for its immorality
and don't lie...islam has murder as penalty for criticising it,non belief,leaving & sicko prick mohammed mURDERED INNOCENTS...so don't delude yourself that islam forbids killing
proudfemale 3 weeks ago
@lokenath123 , listen, 1st you criticize Islam stating most of falsehood & when i clarify all those misconceptions to u, u tell me not to give u lectures, this means u just mean to criticize Islam irrespective of what it really is about. No one is forcing u to accept islam nor am i killing u or any innocent non-muslim for not becoming a muslim, u were not born in a hindu family by ur own choice nor was i born in a muslim family.
taimurdurranii 3 weeks ago
@taimurdurranii When you clarify,clarify with reason and evidence.You just made statements,no sane person believes statements.
I've read Quran,so I don't need you to regurgitate it.I've read few worse books than it,a complete waste of time.
There's nothing to learn from a 21st century misogynistic engineer who believes that Jinns exist and that Quran is the source of all scientific knowledge. You want me to believe in this 'reality'?
You have to have a head for having a 'headache'. Goodbye.
lokenath123 3 weeks ago
@lokenath123 , Since u do not want to accept things i told u about islam & u deliberately want to believe Islam the way u see it from ur perspective, so be it so, because ur thinking does not make the slightest difference to any thing, it won't affect the reality, u & as well as those others like u keep doing so, i just tried my part of the duty for informing u, taking it or not taking it is not my headache, i'm responsible for myself & u for yours. Bye
taimurdurranii 3 weeks ago
@lokenath123 , Even if u were in the 31st century, science wouldn't have been able to keep u from dying, remember "death", death is never going to let u live in here forever, not a single human, so think a bit what will happen when u die, all this so called having gone modern bullshit & blah blah they too aren't sure what happens after death. Death ends it all for this world's existence, no one is going to return back here to tell u what is there after death.
taimurdurranii 3 weeks ago
@taimurdurranii I am not afraid of death, it's inevitable. Science never aimed to obliterate death as that would make human existence and development impossible. I don't want to hear more bullshit from a Jinn believer.
lokenath123 3 weeks ago
@lokenath123 , as for modernism is concerned, i'd just give 1 example of the famous singer Cat Stevens who had this famous UK band "rolling stones" he earned a huge reputation & earned lots of wealth, he was modern no wonder of course, while he was at his peak of his career, people loving him all around the world, he accepted Islam (at age of 29) & became muslim, now having a muslim name Yousaf Islam, no one forced him to become a muslim, u ask him why did he switch to such an old time religion
taimurdurranii 3 weeks ago
@taimurdurranii What the hell, Carl Stevens is the most intelligent man alive? No wonder your mullahs must have fed him this sugar candy version of Islam , not its barbaric true violent face
lokenath123 3 weeks ago
@lokenath123 , as for the female inferiority part, i stated that on general fact, u advocating females being equal to the masculine gender, u try to prove that to the world, tell them that the masculine gender does not dominate the human population, change the
i challenge u to change the system & bring on the feminine gender to have the dominance or equality rule the world with men,50-50. From the very start of the human race till now human population is dominated by men. Talk fact! not theories
taimurdurranii 3 weeks ago
@taimurdurranii I don't have to change the system, the system is changing. There is much more representation of women in every sphere of life, from education to business to science to performing and non performing arts, literature to administration, army what not?
It will not change completely unless people like you cling to their prehistoric beliefs, and keep your women locked in your homes.You jinn believing misogynist don't have a right to talk about facts. You don't have a clue!
lokenath123 3 weeks ago
@lokenath123 , as for women in Islam, they are said to be equal to men, but having a different role & responsibility than the men. Male gender by nature are born tough compared to female gender, so male having tougher physique are meant being capable to do hard work & sustain to it than females, so male are to earn money, give their earnings to their respective females so that females would spend it wisely, run their homes with it.
taimurdurranii 3 weeks ago
@taimurdurranii I don't give a fuck about gender equality in Islam. A religion which says women are dumber to men is pathetic. It is worth flushing down in the toilets along with other waste.
Whatever you say to support the gender equality in Islam is useless just because of this simple fact.
lokenath123 3 weeks ago
@lokenath123 , 1400 years back, at times of Muhammad PBUH, the ignorant non-muslims in Arab used to bury females alive, whenever they knew that a female child took birth, she would've been buried alive. Islam stopped those non-muslims from doing this evil practice. Islam is strictly against abortion, while in this recent so called enlightened age, in india around 7,00,000 abortions occur every year and 20,000 woman die in abortion related cases, Islam being against it is barbaric??
taimurdurranii 3 weeks ago
@taimurdurranii Islam is not just against abortion, it is against a lot of other things - contraceptives, gays, jews, idol-worshippers, women socializing, apostacy. The list is endless. These things make it barbaric.
Abortion is done for a lot of things other than female infanticide. It might be life saving for a teenager who doesn't want the child or even for married couples who don't. Plain banning it is wrong, it has to be conditional.
lokenath123 3 weeks ago
@taimurdurranii Your point out a social evil like female infanticide and say Islam was against it.Then you ask me whether Islam is barbaric based on this.How lame!
Have I said anywhere that Islam was barbaric because it is against female infanticide? Then why do you waste my time citing that?
Please,you have demonstrated pathetic logic,don't extend your misery.Female infanticide occurs in India because of poverty and lack of education.Telling them to believe in Islamic fairy tales is even worse.
lokenath123 3 weeks ago
@lokenath123 , your consideration for me being not educated does not make any affect or any slightest difference to me or anyone, so what's the point? u considering urself to be educated because thinking of urself being the one with the modern latest up to date advanced mentality does not backup the reason why those westerns non-muslims who grew up in such a civilized developed sophisticated society, living a modern life style & thinking yet embrace islam.
taimurdurranii 3 weeks ago
@taimurdurranii You are not educated because you believe in things without evidence. Life style and the crap you are mentioning are not the reasons I cited.Don't invent reasons for me,I gave you the reason number of times.Honestly people like you aren't worth talking to.My only advice is don't marry and if you do,allow your child to have an independent perspective.Don't cloud her mind with bullshit of Islam,because if God existed he won't pardon you for doing it.
lokenath123 3 weeks ago
@lokenath123 , why do i have to repeat each & every time that islam DOES NOT PERMIT KILLING OF ANY INNOCENT HUMAN BEING! irrespective of gender, whether they be gay or normal people. why do u deliberately cling to this self perceived concept. islam is not a religion meant for muslim, it's a religion for the entire mankind, the whole humanity.
taimurdurranii 3 weeks ago
@taimurdurranii islam DOES NOT PERMIT KILLING OF ANY INNOCENT HUMAN BEING!
Is a lie, it kills apostates and gays if they don't respond to therapy.
lokenath123 3 weeks ago
@lokenath123 , as for stating women dumber that's my personal observation so far, show my single statement where i quoted islam saying women are dumber than men. u again deliberately take my personal opinions to islam & then blame islam for it, see this is what the problem is. also that tone u use, those vulgar words u use doesn't makes u educated either, education teaches manners, ethics, u lack that, what sort of an educated person r u?? in no sense u seem to be a sensible person to me
taimurdurranii 3 weeks ago
@taimurdurranii I use those words because I am inflamed at finding a person who claims to have received scientific education and believes in stuff he finds no reason to believe in - Jinns etc.You won't find sense in me because you believe in so much nonsense.For you nonsense is sense,so you'll obviously find none in me.
Saying that Islam should be flushed in toilets isn't vulgarity,it's hard reality.Islam doesn't deserve respect from anyone.
lokenath123 3 weeks ago
@lokenath123 , someone having abortion because of not wanting a child means killing a human being, taking life of that innocent baby inside the womb for the reason person not wanting the child & aborting it justifies to take away the right of life of that baby??
taimurdurranii 3 weeks ago
@taimurdurranii Another absurd point. You advocate the right of the child to life.but what life you'll give him by teaching him all this bullshit ideas of Jinns and stuff.I never said abortion is right,I say banning it unconditionally isn't right as well.
lokenath123 3 weeks ago
@lokenath123 , coming to believe in existence of jinns, science hasn't progressed to that level to prove the existence of jinns yet. Like atoms & the sub atomic particles (neutron, proton, electron etc) didn't exist until the early 19th century when some scientists like Rutherford & other scientists confirmed so by performing certain experiments. Before 19th century when atom's existence wasn't scientifically proven means atoms didn't exist at that time??
taimurdurranii 3 weeks ago
@taimurdurranii Hmm and you have progressed beyond science to know that they exist? Have you seen one in your life? What do you base it on when you say "Jinns exist"? Don't you feel ashamed? Of course not, one who is stupid enough to believe women are dumber than men wouldn't have "shame" component in their brains other than the woman's hymen.
This is my last response to you.Don't make me move my fingers for you again please.You are a disgrace to humanity.
lokenath123 3 weeks ago
@lokenath123 , u deliberately stating islam a sugar coated delusion just shows ur mere contempt for it. The total muslim population is estimated 2.1 billion now & increasing, means 2.1 billion humans are disgrace to humanity. Also as for believing in jinn's existence, there are a lot of well educated & qualified non-muslims who have firm belief in the existence of jinn's. Just because some "Lokenath" thinks so, this huge amount of people are a disgrace & old minded don't get affected in any way
taimurdurranii 3 weeks ago
@taimurdurranii Again,you produce horrible logic and waste my time.In the cold war years entire Russia didn't believe Darwin's but Lamarck's theory of evolution because Darwin's theory was labelled as anti-communist.By your logic I can say the entire Russia believed in Lamarckism,and were also increasing in population,so how can so many people be wrong?The fact is that they 'were' wrong.So are muslims.Population doesn't transform a lie into truth.So many people supported Hitler,was he right?
lokenath123 3 weeks ago
@lokenath123 , oh brother, muslims are not just from now on, muslims have a 1400 years of istory, Russia is just 1 country, muslims reside world wide living in a lot of muslim countries as well as in non-muslim countries, muslims make up 28.73%(increasing) of the total human population, Russia wasn't by that time nor is now, also muslims are a single nation, not limited to physical boundaries.
taimurdurranii 2 weeks ago
@taimurdurranii Russia,US have no history?
Why do you keep demonstrating your lack of knowledge?
I was giving you an example to demonstrate that many people believing in something doesn't make that right.Christians,Muslims,Buddhists and Hindus are few billions each.They believe in different things,all of them can't be right.Get your logic straight.
See I am tired of demolishing your logic.Go talk to your "IslamUtopic" friends.I find talking to you neither informative nor interesting.
lokenath123 2 weeks ago
@lokenath123 , What history does Russia, USA, Germany or any other country have? USA became a country in 1776, Russia became a country in 1533, Russia was a super power from 1982 till 1991, means they had the power for 9 years only & were defeated not by the USA, but by muslims of Afghanistan who had no latest technologies, no atomic bombs etc. USA has been in power from merely 21 years, whereas muslims have the history of ruling the most of the world for centuries (Continues)
taimurdurranii 2 weeks ago
@lokenath123 , other than islam or christianity no other religion ruled most of the world, whether it be hinduism, buddhism, jews, or atheists. islam & christianity are the 2 major religion on earth, both having a history of having wars, christians mostly being badly defeated.
taimurdurranii 2 weeks ago
@taimurdurranii True, because it is not the business of religion to rule.It's only muslims who think that way.Christians thought like that but most of them have reformed.
Yeah,muslims defeated christians always.That's why most countries having christian populations are the most developed countres and no muslim country is there even in the top-20.
This is why I say you are living in "IslamUtopia",a planet where untrue is true,wrong is right,west is east,Islam is peaceful.
lokenath123 2 weeks ago
@lokenath123 , and i don't have to progress beyond science to believe in jinns' existence as i've encountered them in reality already, bad experience of course. i don't need science to tell me about jinns, just because u may have not encountered any jinn yet, that's why u say so
taimurdurranii 2 weeks ago
@taimurdurranii You have encountered Jinns?This is the only interesting thing you have said in all your gibberish and childish logic.
Why don't you say more about that encounter?Maybe write a book?
Oh, is that Jinn the reason why you hardly talk any sense?
Let others know about this experience of yours which hardly any person in the developed world know about.
lokenath123 2 weeks ago
@lokenath123 , what will i get of sharing my experience about jinns? that doesn't helps me, & may God keep me safe from them. as for everything i told u so far about islam u quote as the sugar coated religion, i can't convince u through mere texting, it's better u talk to Zakir Naik face to face or ask him all thses questions in any of his lectures proving him wrong, try to humiliate him in front of the huge crowd, if u think u r being right, if u r right it's ur duty to let other people know
taimurdurranii 2 weeks ago
@taimurdurranii I don't need to prove Zakir wrong.A 15 year old who has read science knows he's a buffoon talking nonsense.
There is no need to humiliate him, he's already an embarrassment. He is so afraid that he does only lectures nowadays, no debates, not even talk shows. Embarrassing him won't stop him.
lokenath123 2 weeks ago
@lokenath123 aww i believe he pwned u.
MrGamemaker2000 2 weeks ago
@MrGamemaker2000 Who is this 'he' ?
lokenath123 2 weeks ago
@lokenath123 Zakir Naik.
MrGamemaker2000 2 weeks ago
@MrGamemaker2000 I am not surprised that you 'believe' that Zakir Naik pwned me :)
But do you stop and think for a reason sometimes? :)
lokenath123 2 weeks ago
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@lokenath123 The human brain cannot never stop thinking. It thinks until you die.
Apparently your brain stopped when you wrote:
"But do you stop and think for a reason sometimes? :)"
But i like your unaggressive approach :)
MrGamemaker2000 2 weeks ago
@MrGamemaker2000 Those are assertions and have got nothing to do with this discussion.
If you have something valuable to say please say it, or else don't waste my time.
lokenath123 1 week ago
@lokenath123 You asked him why do we need "a" religion, why not just believe in good values and leave out the religion?
To which he gave a really good answer, "who would decide what is morally good?" is mini-skirt good? or is modesty/hijab good? is unlimited number of boyfriends or girlfriends good? or having four wives is good?
Simply put, one who cant accept God's law, will he/she accept a man-made law?
I think he did demolish your "points" for not having religion.
Alhazen965 1 week ago
@Alhazen965 No he didn't.You think his arguments are good because you and him hold the same premises. :)
If you think there is the need of a holy book to make people 'moral', you think people themselves are unable to do that.
You can use simple reason to answer those questions.Let's try."Is mini skirts good?" Answer: If someone wants to wear it, yes. "Is hijab good?" Answer: if someone wants to wear it,then it is" "Unlimited number of boyfriends/girlfriends?" Ans:"With consent and safety, yes"
lokenath123 1 week ago
@lokenath123 I fail to understand why having unlimited number of girlfriends or boyfriends is fine *with consent* but having four wives is not fine where the consent has to be given not once not twice but THREE TIMES! Why the hypocrisy?
>morals: He gave a perfect description of how morals vary from culture to culture and individual to individual. For example, nudity...some think its good...some think its bad...who is right? Given your logic both will be right...that is playing with fire.
Alhazen965 1 week ago
@Alhazen965 You fail to understand why polyandry is wrong because you don't see the stats.I gave you the reason, there aren't 4 women to every man in the world.So practising polyandry will leave out men who don't have a wife.If polygyny is also allowed,I don't have a problem with polyandry.
Religion doesn't solve the problem of morals.It merely creates large chunks of different morals rather than a universal moral.Secondly,it assumes that religion gives true morals,which has no basis.Perfect LOL
lokenath123 1 week ago
@lokenath123 You ignored my question completely!! Why are you against multiple wives but not multiple sexual relationships? (Given both get consents). Why the bias?
You said polygamy is fine, if polyandry is also allowed! It sounds like your problem is NOT polygamy, but the BAN on polyandry in Islam, right?
Well, dont try to make it an issue of equality, because its not. Polygamy and polyandry are two different animals under Islam.
CONTINUED>>
Alhazen965 1 week ago
@Alhazen965 My logic is simple. If your mind isn't bright enough to get it, I can't help you.
Multiple sexual relations is ok if consent is present, and safety is practised.It is not limited to men or women, just based on mutual consent and knowledge about risks.
Polyandry can be allowed if polygyny is allowed too! Only polyandry is hypocrisy because it is partial to men. If women are interested in more than one man, she's not allowed.
lokenath123 1 week ago
@lokenath123 You have completely missed the point on relationships between the two genders in Islam. First of all, polygamy has a position of "allowed" in Islam not "mandatory". Secondly, in Islam, men have to support the family, a woman can choose to but she doesnt have to. Thirdly, the root reason for polygamy to be allowed in Islam is so men can support widows and women who cant find support otherwise, i know people abuse the law, but thats not the reason for the law.
CONTINUED.
Alhazen965 1 week ago
@Alhazen965 I have not said it is mandatory. Why do you invent words?
Widows can get married to men who are unmarried, why do they need to get married to already married men?Sounds stupid.In Quran nowhere this limitation is imposed, don't cook up stories.If Quran had written "men are allowed more than one wife, if the second wife is shelterless or supportless" maybe I could have thought positively about it. It doesn't.
lokenath123 1 week ago
@lokenath123 So since women are not burdened in Islam with supporting a family financially, therefore a widower shouldnt need a woman to support himself.
Islam has fixed the duties of men and women in Islam, and majority of the laws regarding the relationships between the genders conform to those duties.
Naturally, men are more aggressive than women, so they take charge of the relationship. Its a word-wide phenomenon, not just in muslims.
why is world man-dominated then?
Alhazen965 1 week ago
@Alhazen965 Your world may be men-dominated, look at how many women are CEOs of companies, heads of states, diplomats, scientists, sportswomen. If you keep women confined to her room and don't let her mingle freely in society how can she progress?
Many studies of the male and female brain show women are more capable in multitasking, make better managers, are more right brained thinkers. They have much more role to play in society than to just bear children.
lokenath123 1 week ago
@lokenath123 So your "reason" against polygamy is that "there arent 4 women to every man"? LOL
You are accusing me of not knowing the stats but do you know the stat of muslim men that have more than one wife?
1 in 4000...meaning 1 muslim man in 4000 will have more than one wife.
Your reason against polygamy just went flying out of the window.
I am waiting for the next one.
FYI: Having four fives is not a "must" in Islam but "allowed" in Islam, quite a distinction if i may say so.
Alhazen965 1 week ago
@Alhazen965 I know it is not a must,please don't teach Islam.
My stats are likely to stay constant because biology and probability ensures men and women will stay in a ratio close to 1:1.
But your stats 1 in 4000,could change,Even if it doesn't,let me expose it as impractical if everyone follows Islam.
Population of earth 7 billion.Leaving out 3% for homosexuals(of both gender).
6.79 billion.In a ratio of 1:1, 3.4 billion males and 3.4 billion females(In real there are significant number ..CONT.
lokenath123 1 week ago
@Alhazen965 CONT..of less women than men,so odds are more against you,but sparing you for simplicity) 3.4 billion/4000 = .85 million males will have more than one wife.If they have two(the minimum),almost a million guys are without wives(since girlfriends or polygyny aren't allowed in Islam! If they have three wives, 1.7 million guys don't have wives.If they have four wives, 2.55 million guys don't have wives.
This is your case,assuming accuracy of 1:4000 stats will remain constant.
Practical?
lokenath123 1 week ago
@lokenath123 Every species has a dominant gender! For humans its the male gender, accept it and get on with reality.
My world? LOL You are showing naivety by saying the world is not male-dominated. Have you ever heard of male rights groups? LOL
>polygyny: I wouldnt try to teach you islam if you werent here trying to defame it, capice? You have no understanding of gender relationships in Islam or its wisdom, all you want to do is talk about one verse without context.
Continued...
Alhazen965 1 week ago
@Alhazen965 I understand gender relationship in Islam,which is primitive.Women belong to men like cattle, that's good for barbarians but no good for modern society.
I won't accept your assertions "For humans dominant is male gender" LOL Women rights group exist because some morons have denied women equal rights in the past.Islam still does that.
"I wouldnt try to teach you islam if you werent here trying to defame it" LOL I don't have to defame Islam.You need honor to be dishonored,it has none.
lokenath123 1 week ago
@Alhazen965 And it will be better if you go and teach Islam to Al Qaeda, Hijbul Mujahideen,Lashkar e Toiba,Al Jihad and the likes instead of me.They talk of violence not me. I speak against ideologies which are crap, I don't advocate violence against any group of people.
lokenath123 1 week ago
@lokenath123 I am not a mathematician but common sense tells me that more males die year around just because women are less likely to be in dangerous environments. Count all the soldiers, workers, drivers, miners, pilots, and God knows whatelse, and look at the ratio of females vs males...worldwide...you will know why more males are born but why more females end up surviving.
When the business gets dirty then women dont want equality in that business..they would rather be CEO's.
Alhazen965 1 week ago
@Alhazen965 That's not common sense that's flawed reasoning that is taught by halfwits like Zakir Naik.Go and check any world census figuers,there are millions of more men than women already.And there are more old women than old men because women live longer, which implies there are even less young women compared to young men.You can check stats according to age which also supports me.These stats render polyandry impractical and creating more gender imbalance.
lokenath123 1 week ago
@lokenath123 See, once again, to me and the other 1.5 billion muslims in the world, the best role model is Prophet Muhammad PBUH. To you, it may not be the case, but to us, it is.
We can see "reason" behind his wisdom, and we agree with that reason. You, on the other hand, disagree with his reason. And similarly, I and other muslims, disagree with YOUR reason.
The whole point of Zakir Naik is that once everything is left to each person's own reason, STRONG cultures with morals will decline.
Alhazen965 1 week ago
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Alhazen965 1 week ago
@Alhazen965 I know that you think Mohammed is your best role model.So what?
Strong cultures with morals will decline - don't know what that means.If strong cultures decline, they weren't strong to start with or have been weakened over time.Decline happens due to own weakness, in some cases circumstances do force decline.But for a n entire culture to decline without it own weaknesses is almost impossible.
lokenath123 1 week ago
@lokenath123 >morals: I think you are not interested in accepting the fact that one person's morals will always be different than the other.
So who in this case will you follow? and I already know your answer is "use your reason".
Well, what if i dont agree with your "reason"? What if like "my" reason better?
Cultures (morals/traditions) are based on widely accepted authority, not personal opinion...if personal opinion replaces widely accepted authority then chaos will follow.
Alhazen965 1 week ago
@Alhazen965 You don't understand the difference between reason and opinion?
Opinions don't make laws,reasons do.
The debate is not that.My argument is that religion doesn't lead to uniformity of morals.Maybe it creates 50000 opinions instead of 7 billion.But those 50000 aren't necessarily better than 7 billion.Religions end doesn't mean countries cease to exist.People will elect the best among them,and they will decide the laws.If they don't like the laws,they will be changed through debate.
lokenath123 1 week ago
@lokenath123 >morals: I hate say but your understanding is very impractical, i should say divorced of reality. Of course, in an ideal world people would come to the table and debate their reasons or morals...but the real world out there is not like that.
People dont like to listen a single word from the opposition let alone having long lengthy debates.
The little bit morals that we have are not from debates but widely accepted authorities...remove that and invite chaos.
Alhazen965 1 week ago
@Alhazen965 I have just proved what is impractical LOL I am listening to your words, that is not because I read it from some religion.If a civilization is immoral,it will go to its extinction.Morals will evolve for survival.This is sociology,not imagination.Morals that we have today are because we found it to help our survival.
To assume that everyone will go and start murdering if religion goes is absurd.Even if they do it,they'll realize their folly and stop,because it won't help survival.
lokenath123 1 week ago
@lokenath123 You are putting a great show of your naivety by denying a simple fact, that our world is male dominated. Tells me a lot about how much you know of reality. You are an indian, and you are denying that world is male dominated, thats sad and funny at the same time.
The reason we have "women rights groups" in every country is because men are the dominant gender and they always try to deny women any rights. Why dont we have "men rights groups" then if men are not dominant?
Alhazen965 1 week ago
@Alhazen965 Resorting to calling me naive won't win you arguments.I never disagreed that most of the world is male dominated.But I also gave the reason, women were not allowed the same rights as men.You also seem to agree when you say "men are the dominant gender and they always try to deny women any rights". Is that good or do you recommend it?
Not very long ago whites dominated blacks,does that mean blacks are any less intelligent or able in general?
lokenath123 1 week ago
@lokenath123 >polygyny: You have to be out of your mind to say that men dont die more than women. Do women die more than men in war, murder, accidents, injuries, and work? If you say yes than God help you because you are blind to reality.
Tell me on any given day, are women facing more danger from the dangerous elements of life or men? If you knew any better, you would say men. Ask anyone on the street if you dont beleive and they will say men.
Its common sense, not "flawed reasoning".
Alhazen965 1 week ago
"You have to be out of your mind to say that men dont die more than women."Another ad hominem,no arguments,no facts.Can you show me a single sentence where I said that?You can't.Your arguments are memorized and you have to fall back on them when I present a counter-argument.
I simply said,go and check world male:female ratio.Apply the maths I worked out for you and see for yourself.These facts demonstrate that regardless of death rates,the sex ratio can't allow polyandry.It'll cause imbalance.
lokenath123 1 week ago
@lokenath123 >polygyny: so your "logical" argument is that "it'll cause imbalance"?
Hmm..you did some extreme math in a wiz and came to conclusion that a practice that gave stranded women a better chance at finding someone to support them is "no good" because if "the whole planet" practiced it "It'll cause imbalance"!
Some logic you got there! First of all, the whole planet is not going to practice it, and secondly Islam recommends only one wife but allows upto 4 WHERE needed.
Alhazen965 6 days ago
@Alhazen965 Polygyny:Islam doesn't say WHERE.Those situations are created by you to make the polygyny bit sound less awful. LOL
Polygyny in Islam is only to help stranded women?Write that into the Quran then,so that the evil practise is only followed when without it something more evil could happen.Currently it says "Marry 1,2,3,4 but if you cant do justice marry 1"
I didn't come to a conclusion.I proved to you by math that's obvious to a 10 year old kid.If you don't get that,I can't help you.
lokenath123 6 days ago
@lokenath123 >Polygyny: As I have already explained to you that your issue is not polygyny. You yourself said that polygyny is fine if polyandry is also allowed.
Your problem is that you are nit-picking for issues to imply that Islam oppresses women, but you fail to realize that you have no understanding of inequality.
People like you think that being able to have sex in public is "freedom" without understanding the ills it will bring to the society.
cont..
Alhazen965 4 days ago
@Alhazen965 Yes I repeat again polygyny is fine if polyandry is also fine.If you have one,have both.Only one will cause imbalance as I've proved already.
If two adults have consensual sex,it's their matter.Now you'll say I'm contradicting myself because a man can marry multiple women with consent in Islam and I was objecting to that.But my objection was that Islam won't allow a woman to have multiple husbands if all of them give consent!That's the differential treatment.
lokenath123 4 days ago
@lokenath123 >Polygyny: To people like you and the freedoms like those, muslim women say that you are welcome to keep your freedoms to yourself we dont need it.
To muslims, bikini is not a measure of "freedom", its a sign of erosion, a culture that objectifies women as sexual objects, that uses women as an selling tactic. To us it is the worst society imaginable, where women can be referred to as "bitches".
You guys need some serious introspection before you go around preaching.
Alhazen965 4 days ago
@Alhazen965 I'll explain where you are wrong in the women clothing issue.
The women who wear bikini aren't forced to.In muslim women,a significant proportion are forced to wear hijab.In Iran women are tortured for not wearing hijab properly in public.In US or Europe no one will arrest a woman for wearing bikini improperly.
It's alright if your women don't want to wear bikinis,no one's asked them to.But the idea that women in bikini are bitches is just wrong,because that's normal out there.
lokenath123 4 days ago
@Alhazen965 Talking of introspection,look around the muslim countries and try to make their living conditions better instead of mindlessly shouting "Islamic society is the best".Look at the countries under Islamic law,I've spoken to people from there who are fed up with their lives and want to escape,especially women.Stop living in a delusion,IslamUtopia is what I call it.Islam needs lots of reforms before it's even called a humanist faith,let alone the best.
lokenath123 4 days ago
@lokenath123 >morals: Almost every successful civilization we know is based on religion, a coincidence or a necessity? I would say necessity.
You are listening to me because you have the ability to listen to opposition, does that mean majority is like that? Whenever we talk we talk about the "rule" not the "exception". The rule is that people dont like debates or rational thinking, period. Only people who think people like it are people who are naive and ignorant of reality.
Alhazen965 1 week ago
@Alhazen965 "Almost every successful civilization we know is based on religion"Let's understand why.Most early civilizations were 'monarchies'.Monarch was a person who had a 'divine' right to rule the people.
Progress of modern civilizations like the American,'post world war 2' Japanese, or Chinese civilizations isn't based on religion.They progressed due to rapid development of commerce,science and technology.China in fact is communist,God doesn't exist to them.
lokenath123 1 week ago
@lokenath123 >Morals: You are acctually confirming my point that almost every civilization we know is based on religion, you are just adding information to that. I dont understand your point!
Yes modern countries are moving away from religion, but that doesnt mean the civilization that gave birth to those countries were not based on religion. FYI, America or Japan is not a civilization, they are modern countries stemming from old civilizations.
cont...
Alhazen965 6 days ago
@lokenath123 >morals: Atheism is as old as religion itself, but how many civilizations do we know that were based on atheism? I personally havent heard of any.
The reason being, when you remove "authority" or as you said "monarchs" then there is no "standard" left in the society because everyone is free to choose his right or wrong.
That we all know just cant work, it didnt work for most part of the world history, and it wouldnt work for the future.
Religion, like it or not, is necessary.
Alhazen965 6 days ago
@Alhazen965 I didn't say 'remove authority'.Please stop inventing my thoughts for me or there can't be a reasonable debate.
People will choose what authority they want,people will choose their leaders.US is a world leader not because it did its business according to Bible.China is not a world leader because it did business according to Buddha.In infancy of human civilization,religion was important in social context because there wasn't enough knowledge to derive morals upon.Now,it is irrelevant.
lokenath123 6 days ago
@lokenath123 >Morals: If religion has become "irrelevant" then why's the majority of the world still theistic!
I never said that "you said, remove authority", I'm only assuming we need "some moral authority" to replace "religious moral authority" (after we get rid of it)?
After all, religion is the biggest moral authority.
"we will decide", do you mean an "election on moral values"? or an "election for a moral leader"?
Get real for once, please!
Cont.
Alhazen965 4 days ago
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@Alhazen965 Morals: If religion has become "irrelevant" then why's the majority of the world still theistic!Firstly majority of the world believing in theism doesn't make religion relevant.Majority of the world once thought the earth is the centre of the universe, but they were WRONG.
But I will answer your question.The reason is most people bring up their children in religious culture.Very few are able to see clearly by getting out of the religious fold which has stuck to them from day 1.
lokenath123 4 days ago
@lokenath123 >Morals: and if you do mean an election, will it be anything like the elections we currently have?
Where media propaganda, false promises, vested interests, lobbyist funded campaigns, profit and above all personal gain is more important then the welfare of the society?
And if you DONT mean "a worldwide election on moral leaders" then please explain what do you mean by "we will decide without removing authority".
I hate to put words in peoples mouth, so let me know.
Alhazen965 4 days ago
@Alhazen965 Morals:"I hate to put words in people's mouth".You've put so many in mine,I've already lost count LOL
I mean that morals will be based on what is good for all.What is immoral will self-destruct.e.g if all start murdering we'll lead our species to extinction.That realization will sink in and we'll stop and form a law to ban murder.That's how we got our morals,holy books were our understanding of morals in written form,nothing more.But we know more now,let's write better ones.
lokenath123 4 days ago
@lokenath123 I will correct anyone and everyone who will make false arguments against my religion, its my right to defend my religion, if you dont like it, then dont attack it. Simple as that.
Women in Islam are not oppressed, may be only in the minds of naive and ignorant people like you but not in reality.
Polygyny is allowed under crisis, to protect women, and the same verse that says you can marry four, also says but you should only marry one.
May be you missed reading that part?
Alhazen965 1 week ago
@Alhazen965 "The rule is that people dont like debates or rational thinking,period" Any evidence for that rule?
I am not attacking you,I am criticizing a false ideology.It is not only false,it's also dangerous for humanity.
Women in muslim countries have the lowest human development indicators in the world.Need more proof?
"You should marry only one" was enough.In Arabia at that time there were too many wars.So Mo made the 1:4 rule.But he only planned to rule himself.So he forgot to delete that.
lokenath123 1 week ago
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Alhazen965 6 days ago
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@lokenath123 Your ill-thought-out "rebuttals" make me laugh!
>polygyny: Yes, its true that Islam allows men to marry upto four wives, but as you have already said that you wouldnt mind polygyny if polyandry is also allowed, meaning you dont really have a stand on the "need" of polygamy, you're only trying to nit-pick for issues without understanding the nature of Islamic community, or its wisdom.
Your problem is not polygamy, its religion, eg. belief in a higher deity.
Alhazen965 6 days ago
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Alhazen965 6 days ago
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@lokenath123 >Gender_roles: You have understand one thing and understand it real good, men and women are NOT THE SAME. They are EQUAL but NOT THE SAME!!!
Women excel men in some regards and men excel women in some regards. No point in fighting nature.
The western women that have become the icons of "free women". The same women only 49 years back, when America still had some culture and hadnt become a shoe box for humans, needed a man to support themselves and family.
cont..
Alhazen965 6 days ago