Common Sense, 5, Part 1, The Cancer of Progressivism

[Strollmanx]

It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena. -Theodore Roosevelt. If you have never read a biography of Theodore Roosevelt than I can not begin to tell you how Beck sounds. Historical context is what matters, by the way he set aside 230 miilion acres for you and me. Go to a national park and say thanks to T.R.

[asderathos]

@Strollmanx Well I myself have not read a biography of Teddy's, [just his "new Nationalism speech where he "grudge"s every man a fortune unless its used in ways statists approve] but you're quote itself is evidence of the complaint, right along with you're anecdote of National Parks, as a supposed positive.

You cannot defend the charge of "Statism" with evidence of Statism, you can only claim 'some statists are benign', which is antithetical to our founding concepts of freedom.

[asderathos]

We grudge no man a fortune in civil life if it is honorably obtained and well used. It is not even enough that it should have been gained without doing damage to the community. We should permit it to be gained only so long as the gaining represents benefit to the community. -TR

[Strollmanx]

@asderathos This is an example of taking a single point in the long distinguished career of a great America and making an issue where there is no issue. I have heard him called a racist, an imperialist, and a mad man. I rank Roosevelt with Lincoln and Washington (Roosevelt called him correctly The greatest American) I am also a great admirer of Reagan and Andrew Jackson. All men that are open for criticism, that is the American way but I have read too extensively to buy into it.

[asderathos]

STATISM, is not "a single point". To see a satanist sacrificing a goat every thursday, and then complain 'its only a single point' is completely insane.

TR is known as The "Trust Buster" & his reform of this statism? MORE STATISM "The effort at prohibiting all combination has substantially failed. The way out lies, not in attempting to prevent such combinations, but in completely controlling them in the interest of the public welfare."

Andrew Jackson, also a Statist.

[Strollmanx]

@asderathos Before Roosevelt the white house (although it was not called that before Roosevelt) was as run down and dilapidated as the presidency itself. Roosevelt could be a rubber stamp as all preceding 19th century "leaders" were or he could face down the powers that were running America without any regard for the nations welfare of the present or future. He took back the power for the people and in so doing ended the trusts and state monoplies. Assign whatever label you feel but that is fact

[asderathos]

Benevolent dictatorships don't destroy freedom any less because they're well meaning [toward the 'little guy']. The man had no respect for the supremecy of the law, demonized "the wealthy", he was a strong-man Dictator who claimed he would uphold justice equally, after deciding HE WAS The Law.

Dismissing any criticism of your beloved leader as "Labels" makes you nothing short of a 'useful idiot'.

Being against property rights means being in effect against 'the little guy'.

[Strollmanx]

@asderathos Funny thing calling T.R. a dictator when in the 1912 election the G.O.P. in complete disregard and utter distain for "the little guy" gave the Republican nomination to William Taft despite the fact that "the little guy" overwhelmingly voted for Roosevelt in all states that held primaries except one. I am guessing by your name-calling that you failed to find a legislative example to back your claims? Still sticking with generalizations. Good luck with that.

[asderathos]

"Effect" is not the same thing as "Perception". I'd like to know the "Strong Man" who didn't claim he was for the "common man".

"Useful Idiot" is not just some solely interchangeable pejorative, but a historic term for those who support the STRONG MAN to the detriment of Individual political power & rights.

[Strollmanx]

@asderathos When T.R. went to the Dakota territory, the Badlands he often headed out for days alone, slept under the stars and loved when the cold rain poured down on him. Even toughened cowboys were amazed. He saw first hand the squalor of the slums of New York and never forgot the experience. He brought real change to America. You resent the man that actually gets things done while others dream of utopias and philosophical musings best suited for daydreaming Lilliputians.

[asderathos]

So, now you use romanticized imagery, [in ad hominem], & campaign rhetoric of "Getting things done" in the name of "The Little Guy" and then turn around and use a pejorative synonymous with 'lil guy'.

Color Me Not Convinced.

How about giving a little bit of thought to the notion that given equality under the law, men don't need kings [no matter how short their possession of the thrown] to arbitrarily enforce their conceptions of "Justice".

Read John Locke, FREEDOM isn't a "daydream".

[asderathos]

@Strollmanx My Complaint is Statism. If you do not know what that means you cannot argue for OR against it but one thing should be abundantly clear; You cannot defend Teddy Roosevelt without advocating Statism. AND I QUOTE: "every man holds his property subject to the general right of the community to regulate its use to whatever degree the public welfare may require it." -TR, [& that is THE DEFINITION of Statism].

[Strollmanx]

@asderathos .....I have 4 volumes of Roosevelt speeches as well as another dozen books written by or about Roosevelt. No mention of statism. Can you give me an example outside of these quotes of how public policy was actually implemented? What legislation was passed with of course a Republican congress? I am curious to hear your examples outside of the usual "trust busting" generic rebuttal.

[asderathos]

"Statism" is a broad term & modern colloquialism; of course there is no mention of the word itself.

The Meat Inspection Act, The 1905 Corollary to the Monroe Doctrine, The Pure Food and Drug Act, & The National Forest Service, but I haven't really done my homework yet, [& you don't want 'Anti-Trust' evidence of Statism].

I'd wager [if i was a gambler], that the vast majority of his major political actions were statist, being the expert, I'd ask you to name something he did that Wasn't!

[Strollmanx]

@asderathos So let me see if I understand this clean food, safe medication, eight hour work days, womens rights to vote, land preservation are all bad things?Do you really think that tenement slums, child labor and safe working conditions are all A-okay and not the presidents business? Do you really believe that the trusts could be relied upon to do the right thing out of the kindness of their hearts when GREED was the law of the land? Sounds like Haiti or India to me.

[asderathos]

Goals are not Means, confusing them allows politicians to make the same promises without delivering, or deliver at exorbitant cost to liberty. For starters read "Myth of the Robber Barons" & "Free To Choose"

[India's grinding poverty is relenting exactly because of increased market freedoms.]

Glenn Beck used to absolutely LOVE Teddy Roosevelt, until he read into it more.

The Meat Inspection act was only a statist response to a false communist polemic.

[Strollmanx]

@asderathos you feel that you have a reasonable viewpoint and I respect that. Truth be known as long as a year ago I felt Beck was losing it. I remember Dennis Miller saying the same thing and I thought yep.....Beck has slipped his rails.You see T.R. as a dictator and I see Beck as Looney Tunes.....Let's agree to disagree.

[asderathos]

We can agree to disagree but reading dissent shouldn't be out of the question for anyone.

[Coolguysaj]

@davefgranger Where did you find those figures,I am interested in seeing that for myself.

[Dastgreene]

@davefgranger Are you insane? Beck uses these guys' own words against them. I used to think Beck was insane but after a solid year of research we would be stupid to shun this messenger. Beck is amazing. He may have begun to save this country from world governance! Dem and Rep elites have failed us. Libertarian may be the way to go.

[asderathos]

@davefgranger Not worth it? Such a statement would lead one to presume you have the SPARSEST bit of economic knowledge, of which you have yet to demonstrate any, whilst I've done all the explaining.

Know this; you'll appear as an egotistical ignoramus to everyone who reads these comments. I'd think that'd be "Worth It" if you ACTUALLY had any relevant knowledge. Dummy.

[asderathos]

@davefgranger Russia for starters, They had progressive taxation, went to a flat tax and increased revenue, its a rule of economics. Look up the Laffer Curve & Hauser's Law, IF you watched Beck you could see Dr. Laffer explain it himself.

Bush's tax cuts raised 11% of the middle class into the upper class. ACORN extorted banks into lending to unqualified minorities (the fodder for speculation) CAUSING the Mortgage bubble; a significant contributing cause of THE RECESSION. Who's rambling now dumy

[asderathos]

@davefgranger but sense it has proven to be detremental. You are the complete halfwit for not taking into consideration (ironically) 'progress' in knowledge.

[ilovecrap]

Glenn Beck's history isn't history. The guy does not have a degree in History or Political Science or Economics last time I checked so whose to say he's any different than Jim Jones. (But Glenn did educate himself in those progressive socialist PUBLIC libraries-- so what does that say about him?)

[asderathos]

@ilovecrap Jim Jones of Jonestown? THE ATHEIST COMMUNIST NUTBAR WHO LEFT HIS CULT'S MONEY TO THE SOVIET UNION? LMAO!~

/watch?v=RJ-uw_RYzbM

/watch?v=B_t3m0ipJIU

Here's your History, Political Science & Economics, "A Patriot's History of the United States" "Liberal Fascism" "Indoctrination U" "Free To Choose" & "Basic Economics".

Lacking a degree does not prevent you from learning from Experts.

Public Libraries Are Local & Constitutional, as apposed to the INCOMPARABLE CENTRALIZED NATIONAL GOVT

[cowgirlmoon]

@asderathos, EXACTLY! Very good!

[Agent1W]

@ilovecrap This doesn't make sense. Progressivism saw that monopolizing tycoons, almost fully unchecked by gov't, is the cancer. People believed in capitalism but the rules needed to be changed.

[Coolguysaj]

@ilovecrap I doubt he used a PUBLIC library, he is rich. Plus he has the resources to find people with degrees to inform him about progressivism,

[ilovecrap]

@Coolguysaj He said himself he went to the library. so yea. And yeah, Beck is rich, he can afford to have other people think for him. btw, would you go to a Marxist to learn about capitalism? or an atheist to learn about religion?

[JessicaBelle81]

I think Wilson was right that democracies and socialism are one in the same, which is why America was founded as a Rupublic.

[JessicaBelle81]

oops *Republic...

[asderathos]

The major European form of Govt is called "Democratic Socialism" & socialists often point to the European Utopian model.

My problem is, I can't really find much in the way of examples.

Lee Doren has refuted Socialized Medicine examples by providing the fact that European Countries have spending caps.

& the Scandinavian Myth was refuted in 2005... but I only found like 1 article on it...

Don't suppose you know any good sources?

just thinking out loud, or rather in type =)

[JessicaBelle81]

Ludwig von Mises, Frederick Hayek and Henry Hazlet- all Austrian economists debunked socialism in the early to mid 20th century in all forms.

I'm sure if you go on mises [dot] org then you can find plenty of publications denouncing socialism in any form.

They have the largest library of "Classical Liberal" freemarket capitalism, pro individual liberty publications on the net, all available for viewing and download.

[asderathos]

THANKS A LOT!~ I've built up my blog Left & Right with Info on Mises Himself & The "Scandinavian Myth"

(I'm gathering choice info, for educational purposes 8)