flat of my strong flat of my strong flat of my strong flat of my strong flat of my strong he throws a cut to me flat of my strong i go eat a burger flat of my strong flat of my strong flat of my strong
very good video! I practice kenjutsu and our blending techniques focuses on mirroring and letting your blade slide off the opponent's, thereby smoothening the action and providing immediate transfer to counter-attacking. No blade with any technology can survive edge-to-edge contact despite what you may believe. It's more of a problem after armor development since blade would glance or break against plate armor, so the flat part is used in even more ways.
@gurkfisk89 my main problem i think is that i find it easier to wind in you approach it with edge vs edge in many cases but there are exact opposits in my group as well, not saying anyones wrong just saying i think it comes down more to preference
I'm with jadekayak01 and volarion on this. Plus, it is pretty obvious from your video that it is possible to block with the flat. However the blade is made to withstand blow with the edge and not the flat. The way steel is used, usually a harder steel on the edge and a softer one on the interior determines just that.
I agree with you on most parts and I really like that you try to fight in a "real" way on the stage. But I'm not sure if you are right about the edge parry. I'm not sure what's best but the mechanics are really difficult. While I think both a edge or flat parry will survive the first inpact the edge parry will give you a deeper notch and there you have a big stress concentration for other impacts.
Harder steel is also more brittle than soft steel. Which also can contrubute to this because the notch has a higher chanse to be pointy increasing the stress concentration. With that said I'm still not sure what is best, impact mechanics are far to difficult to predict when we are talking about different geometries and different type of impact.
So what do I do? Well, I try to parry with the flat but I don't feel bad if I happens to parry with the edge, I did still avoid the threat. I do this because the probability that my sword will break is minimal when fighting other longswords and then I want to have my edge working. If I went up against let's say a pollaxe or a halberd and they cut with their strongest cut, first then would I probably need to worry about breaking from the impact.
Sure that in time the edge must be sharpened and eventually the sword itself must be reforged. But defending with the edge you offer more steel behind the point where the sword is hit and in the right direction which, even though the pressure on that point his higher, will offer greater resistance to the blow preventing the sword from breaking.
Sure it is hard to break a blade as large as that of a long sword, especially with the forging knowledge available to us these days (particularly the mixes of steels). But back in the days...
On the other hand there are historical evidences of edge on edge blocking and there is no way anyone can be sure of how things were done. Many methods were never registered and no one alive today was alive then.
Thus, you can state you believe it was done like this, but you should not claim that everybody else makes it differently is wrong. I know several of sword masters from different countries here in Europe which, in past discussions, have defended blocking was made, and should be made, with the edge of the blade (in fact I never met once who defended otherwise - both in modern and historical fencing schools, associations and federations).
@paulogarcia8 Meant to say: "(...) you should not claim that everybody else that makes it differently is wrong. I know of several sword masters from different countries here in Europe which, (...)" sorry, typing too fast... hope this sharing of experiences is useful :-)
Plus, I believe you don't quite understand the fencing and fighting in the movies, theatre, television and dance. It should be technically correct, yes, but not necessarily life like. When people fight techniques aren't that clear, the fighting sequences are short, sometimes too fast to be understood by conventional watcher, and… well not spectacular.
Stage fighting has to capture the audiences’ attention, and most importantly, help to tell whatever story is being told. The techniques should be executed correctly but at the level the character is able to perform (if the character is a bad fighter it will not perform that well).
The sequences have to be long enough to establish an ambience, have rhythm changes not to become boring, and have movements which are sometimes slower or larger than those used in real fighting so that the audience can understand what’s going on (an sometimes just to become the fighting more spectacular and thrilling).
I have been practicing different types of fencing and martial arts (both eastern and western since I was 3 – am now 31) and have come to the conclusion that there is not right or wrong… there is what works and what doesn’t work, and sometimes what works for me is different from what works for someone else. Sure there are manuals and you should learn the correct technique before adapting it to yourself.
As a professional actor and stage fighter I, when performing fight scenes, tend to perform techniques as closely to “by the book perfection” as possible (correct distances hand position etc. as seen in the manuals from the age represented) without ever forgetting the performance side, the interpretation of the character and situation, and, most importantly, safety and the audience.
Fighting is all about touching and not being touched, receive a punch to reach and break the opponents the neck, sacrifice the leg to a cut in order to take the opponents head. Stage fight is about technical performance and art and entertainment (they are compatible) – its just not meant to be real, and sometimes not even meant to seem real. Its meant to inspire dreams, to stir emotions and tell tales. Of course there are good and bad performances (as in everything) but…
If you think about it, most people interested in any kind of sword fight (in fact any kind of fight) get their interest and curiosity up because of some film or play that they have seen. If it was not for stage fight in movies and tv most people wouldn’t even bother to learn from people like you and me.
You may say it is not real, you may say that many people interpreting are bad interpreters. But you can’t say it is a bad thing for fencing. Artistic fencing is what today brings people to learn more about real sword fight (from any age and in any format).
Sincerely hoping to have made you broaden your horizons,
@ContradictoryNature it might just be me but i notice in full out steel vs steel sparring a lot of times you dont really care if you parry edge v edge if only because its a bit faster. sure it can work hell on a blade but im pretty sure knights were more concerned about their lives than the tools. just my 2 cents.
I feel that some parries with the flatis faster than with the edge. I'm also a fan of the thumb on flat grip so often the flat parry is stronger. I do however not always use the flat but most time. It's more like "holy fu##¤ sh"# I have to parry" and many times the block will be with the flat or in an angle near the flat. By locking at my training sword there is no marks, yet, of a parry directly on the edge, all is in an angle.
I have my thumb close to my body, away from my opponents blade, so how do I hate my thumb? But sure the thumb is exposed at times but that is true for both flat and edge parries.
Perhaps, I haven't yet felt any danger with it. For the low hengen I see no problem at all. For the high hengen maybe. If you are in the right there is also nearly no problem as you can point your thumb nearly straight down. So the only danger is in the left high hengen. If your opponent strike close to your guard the guard will not collapse. If the strike is near your tip it can collapse the guard but if someone strike at your tip...
... you are not in any real danger so you can easily lover your right elbow and the whole guard to keep your thumb safe. And the strike will usually not com directly from abow and you can easily turn your thumb counter clockwise if it's a diagonal attack.
This is ofc not the answer to everything but it does work rather good for me.
Now that I think about it, maybe I don't use the thumb on the flat as often in that position. Hmm, I will think about this in training.
But that's just me. I haven't seen any good evidence for either "only edge parry" or "only flat parry" yet in the manuals. But I think the flat parry is to prefer because, as they say in the video, you don't ruin your edge and you don't have to turn your blade to hit your opponent. If I keep my edge facing my opponent only the weirdest cuts will hit my edge.
@xtreme0ride Mostly from a lack of flexibility in the wrist and grip. The "typical" grip has blade alignment at 90 degrees to the knuckles (pointing "out" from your fist). To block, your arm has to be behind it, you can't absorb the shock with your hand. So you turn so your wrist, elbow and usually shoulder are in alignment. This ends up with the edge intercepting the cut. Try it for yourself. You'll notice Clements is using a grip where the blade alignment is perpendicular to the knuckle face.
While I can agree that there are sometimes that you want to go edge on edge I can't see why you would like to parry edge on edge in most cases.
Can you please explain why I should parry with my edge and damaging my sword and have my edge facing my opponents sword and not my opponent rather than parrying with my flat?
@gurkfisk89 Hard to explain in 500 letters. The main reason ist that u are much stronger in the bind. Furtermore there should be no parrying, meaning just as a "versetzen". Most counterattacks against Zornhau like absetzen Zwerchhau Schillhaw etc. are only possible by ramming your edge violently in ur opponents blade. This is fencing and not how do i conserve my sword ;-) (no offend).
I feel that I'm stronger in the bind using my flat. I think this is because I usually use the "thumb on the flat" grip when it comes to binding. I expect that, if you usually use an other grip on the bind, it's really possible that you feel something else.
I can't agree more about static parries (500 limit).
For the countering of the zornhau. If you attacks me with a Zornhau and I counter with a Zwerchhau. I think the ideal way would be if I can cut to your head with my weak...
...and at the same time catch your blade with my strong. If your Zorn comes from above and is facing me and my Zwerch comes horizontally, then I find that my edge will connect with your flat, so no really edge on edge there. If we take two right diagonal oberhau against each other I'm more for the edge on aproach. But even then the edges will not connect in an angle so the blades really will bite into each others edges.
Absolutley, but I still don't want to destroy my blade if it's not necessary, and in some cases I can really se that even a full edge on edge 90 degree full force static block would be a good idea. But that would be the exeption and not the rule. Everything in between is ok imho.
As I said, I'm not against ramming your edge violently into the other blade but I don't /want/ to ram it against an other edge.
I haven't seen any real evidence in the old writings for or against any of the two ways of parry. If you can find someone advising "always protect yourself by cutting at his edge" I would really want to se it. Or if any manuscript say "never use your flat, it is to weak". But as stated, I haven't seen anything like that the other way around either.
Sorry for the wall of text. I'm looking forward for your answer, this is still a mystery to me and I like to hear more from your side.
@gurkfisk89 The problem is that we are wiritng on youtube and cant show what we mean ;-) In the most cases the 90 degree blocks dont happen anyway because the sword mostly hit in very various angles and "slip" into each other ( cant translate it propperly). Yes i hold the sword in something i would call a hammer grip. I feel stronger in the bind this way and just use the thumb grip for specific techniques like zwechhau, or redeln or for a proper thrust from ward Pflug.
@gurkfisk89 At least there is no real evidence that advice us to parry in the one or the other way but the system just seems more logical for me when i use my edge for "parrying" (i dont like this word ;-)) I think the old masters didnt talk so much about this theme like we do :D Otherwise there would be a clear statement of a master to this topic. I just dont like this Clements who preaches his "findings" , thinking he is the god of historical fencing.
""slip" into each other ( cant translate it propperly)."
I think know what you mean.
For the grip, it's maybe because I use the flat so much in the wind (I just tested some air cutting Zorn -> winden and either putting the thumb on the flat or not -> ox) I think that if I didn't turn towards the flat but rather to the edge I don't think I need the thumb and it will in that case be a bad thing. Hmm, I think I will try this out some more. It's always good to be able to do more things
Yea, parrying is the wrong word. But st has it's uses, many in my group trains with rapier and dagger. And if you have a parrying dagger it's an other story =).
"Otherwise there would be a clear statement of a master to this topic."
Idk, I feel that the masters are really good at clear statements =). I mean, the more I read the more confused I get about what a krumphau is or if there is many different krumphaus =).
The only think they seems to agree on over the years is that the art comes before strength and that your footwork should be "good" and such. =)
I have pusseled feeliings for Clements and other that /preaches/ in similar ways. Do I think that the "I'm right, you're wrong" mentality is the best way? Ofc not. But I still like them to show what they think and I like that they are confident in what they say. In many occasions I agree with much of it, and other times I learn something.
As someone who practices eastern martial arts, and someone who appreciates and would love to practice western martial arts, this makes a lot of sense, because the way the blocks are done, they remind me of some of my Kempo blocks in their most basic theory and way they deflect the attack so naturally. It just makes so much sense from a physics as well as a strategic standpoint, it's really brilliant.
I totally agree. Master cuts, winden, fülen and such other nonsense are unimportant in learning the longsword. As long as you can swing it you are a master.
2:13, 2:34...don't do that. See how his wrist is? If I was going full force, that is a broken wrist. Yes a lot of times, the swords will meet edge to flat naturally using the historical techniques...but when your doing funky things with your wrist to make it ALWAY meet flat, that is a flawed interpretation as your gonna end up with a broken wrist (and historically that means death...so a bad idea).
@HipposHateWater No, not even in practice...a wrist in that position shown in a real fight is a broken wrist. There is no way that the human wrist in those positions can take a full impact blow. It's not a theory, it's biology and physics.
I don't know, maybe. But because you have your arms bent in that position so I think more likley that your arm will bend, or move down or that your sword will rotate around your thumb instead of rotate the thumb. But sure if you have a really firm grip with your right hand there might be a risk of a broken wrist. I would not want to block a pollaxe or other pole weapons like that.
For the first pic, 2:14, I agree that the wrist is bend in a funky position and I think it's a bad way to block. But I'm not sure if his wrist was in that position in the time of impact or if it ended up in that position after the hit, if that's the case then I think his wrist will be fine even if it's not a good position to maintain any pressure to the blade if that's what you want.
@Vondanzigkungfu The part about blocking is still a bit unclear; he keeps saying that he's blocking not parrying, when what he means is he's parrying not blocking. Controlling your opponant's blade so it doesn't cut you is parrying. Directly interposing the attack is blocking. All blocking is parrying, but not all parrying is blocking.
pffft... throw 2 knives at him and go in with a dagger and that guy is finished. Two handed weapons are to slow. Speed is everything when it comes down to swords.
Back and to the left Back and to the left Back and to the left Back and to the left Back and to the left Back and to the left Back and to the left Back and to the left
@powersbr0 : Only if it's flawless, it's completely full of imperfections and would crack and shatter when it hits somethinghard. Diamond cutting points are sharp but they are super small to prevent breaking.
Man speaks lot of truth but the way he puts it is obnoxious as fuck. Not really a teacher whose classes I'd want to attend if his attitude towards his pupils is the same as in this video.
i have heard that clements was banned from the polish arma people because he never dared to fight with full speed. fight full contact once and find out that all of your techniques are useless.
@holmganghamburg I heard many people tried to fight Clements but he just parried all their blows with the flat of his strong. They had no chance whatsoever.
@holmganghamburg i too have heard from the yeti and the reincarnation of michael jackson, but there is no proof for this. show me a video of a well trained fighter fighting clements and i will believe you.
i know that nobody in europe ever saw clements fighting against a wll trained opponent, because he onla had excuses for not appearing
I don't know if he is banned. But there was some issue about a lot of challenges between JC and the guys in Poland. I'm a bit sad that the fights didn't happen, not because the "winner" would be right but because the fights would be very awsome to see. But an other part of me think it's a good thing that the fights didn't happened because the whole thing about "let's have a fight to see who is right" is not the best solution. And it would perhaps awake old grudge.
@gurkfisk89 we are from the hiebfechtbund in germany and many fighters wanted to challenge clements just so see whether his techniques work at full speed. nobody here cares about winning. but clements never agreed to a full contact fight. that is why everybody here thinks that his techniques are a fake.
That's weird; I've seen him fight in person a few months back, (he fought several individuals, might I add) and I KNOW there are videos of him fighting with proper intent and speed. Keep in mind that rumors are unreliable for a reason.
I hate it when at medieval shows i see all that hogwash..theyre attacking each others swords not bodies..endless in that classical "X"pattern head head legs legs. using the edge..ah scratches my ear, u end up fighting with a saw not a blade and u almost need a new sword after each "fight" :)) i know its staged but a little more realism and imagination. a real swordfight whould last 5 secs at most, and not 5 mins of sensless edgebashing. rearly i see shows worth of watching.
flat of my strong flat of my strong flat of my strong flat of my strong flat of my strong he throws a cut to me flat of my strong i go eat a burger flat of my strong flat of my strong flat of my strong
andresrojas22 15 hours ago
I used to parry with the flat of my strong but then I took an arrow to the knee
leftwinger84 1 day ago
@ChipperNeto where is the fun in that???
volarion 4 days ago
Just buy a gun...
ChipperNeto 2 weeks ago
very good video! I practice kenjutsu and our blending techniques focuses on mirroring and letting your blade slide off the opponent's, thereby smoothening the action and providing immediate transfer to counter-attacking. No blade with any technology can survive edge-to-edge contact despite what you may believe. It's more of a problem after armor development since blade would glance or break against plate armor, so the flat part is used in even more ways.
Dalaran1991 3 weeks ago
@gurkfisk89 my main problem i think is that i find it easier to wind in you approach it with edge vs edge in many cases but there are exact opposits in my group as well, not saying anyones wrong just saying i think it comes down more to preference
volarion 3 weeks ago
I'm with jadekayak01 and volarion on this. Plus, it is pretty obvious from your video that it is possible to block with the flat. However the blade is made to withstand blow with the edge and not the flat. The way steel is used, usually a harder steel on the edge and a softer one on the interior determines just that.
paulogarcia8 3 weeks ago
@paulogarcia8
I agree with you on most parts and I really like that you try to fight in a "real" way on the stage. But I'm not sure if you are right about the edge parry. I'm not sure what's best but the mechanics are really difficult. While I think both a edge or flat parry will survive the first inpact the edge parry will give you a deeper notch and there you have a big stress concentration for other impacts.
gurkfisk89 3 weeks ago
@paulogarcia8
Harder steel is also more brittle than soft steel. Which also can contrubute to this because the notch has a higher chanse to be pointy increasing the stress concentration. With that said I'm still not sure what is best, impact mechanics are far to difficult to predict when we are talking about different geometries and different type of impact.
gurkfisk89 3 weeks ago
@paulogarcia8
So what do I do? Well, I try to parry with the flat but I don't feel bad if I happens to parry with the edge, I did still avoid the threat. I do this because the probability that my sword will break is minimal when fighting other longswords and then I want to have my edge working. If I went up against let's say a pollaxe or a halberd and they cut with their strongest cut, first then would I probably need to worry about breaking from the impact.
gurkfisk89 3 weeks ago
Sure that in time the edge must be sharpened and eventually the sword itself must be reforged. But defending with the edge you offer more steel behind the point where the sword is hit and in the right direction which, even though the pressure on that point his higher, will offer greater resistance to the blow preventing the sword from breaking.
paulogarcia8 3 weeks ago
Sure it is hard to break a blade as large as that of a long sword, especially with the forging knowledge available to us these days (particularly the mixes of steels). But back in the days...
On the other hand there are historical evidences of edge on edge blocking and there is no way anyone can be sure of how things were done. Many methods were never registered and no one alive today was alive then.
paulogarcia8 3 weeks ago
Thus, you can state you believe it was done like this, but you should not claim that everybody else makes it differently is wrong. I know several of sword masters from different countries here in Europe which, in past discussions, have defended blocking was made, and should be made, with the edge of the blade (in fact I never met once who defended otherwise - both in modern and historical fencing schools, associations and federations).
paulogarcia8 3 weeks ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@paulogarcia8 Meant to say: "(...) you should not claim that everybody else that makes it differently is wrong. I know of several sword masters from different countries here in Europe which, (...)" sorry, typing too fast... hope this sharing of experiences is useful :-)
paulogarcia8 3 weeks ago
Plus, I believe you don't quite understand the fencing and fighting in the movies, theatre, television and dance. It should be technically correct, yes, but not necessarily life like. When people fight techniques aren't that clear, the fighting sequences are short, sometimes too fast to be understood by conventional watcher, and… well not spectacular.
paulogarcia8 3 weeks ago
Stage fighting has to capture the audiences’ attention, and most importantly, help to tell whatever story is being told. The techniques should be executed correctly but at the level the character is able to perform (if the character is a bad fighter it will not perform that well).
paulogarcia8 3 weeks ago
The sequences have to be long enough to establish an ambience, have rhythm changes not to become boring, and have movements which are sometimes slower or larger than those used in real fighting so that the audience can understand what’s going on (an sometimes just to become the fighting more spectacular and thrilling).
paulogarcia8 3 weeks ago
I have been practicing different types of fencing and martial arts (both eastern and western since I was 3 – am now 31) and have come to the conclusion that there is not right or wrong… there is what works and what doesn’t work, and sometimes what works for me is different from what works for someone else. Sure there are manuals and you should learn the correct technique before adapting it to yourself.
paulogarcia8 3 weeks ago
As a professional actor and stage fighter I, when performing fight scenes, tend to perform techniques as closely to “by the book perfection” as possible (correct distances hand position etc. as seen in the manuals from the age represented) without ever forgetting the performance side, the interpretation of the character and situation, and, most importantly, safety and the audience.
paulogarcia8 3 weeks ago
Fighting is all about touching and not being touched, receive a punch to reach and break the opponents the neck, sacrifice the leg to a cut in order to take the opponents head. Stage fight is about technical performance and art and entertainment (they are compatible) – its just not meant to be real, and sometimes not even meant to seem real. Its meant to inspire dreams, to stir emotions and tell tales. Of course there are good and bad performances (as in everything) but…
paulogarcia8 3 weeks ago
If you think about it, most people interested in any kind of sword fight (in fact any kind of fight) get their interest and curiosity up because of some film or play that they have seen. If it was not for stage fight in movies and tv most people wouldn’t even bother to learn from people like you and me.
paulogarcia8 3 weeks ago
You may say it is not real, you may say that many people interpreting are bad interpreters. But you can’t say it is a bad thing for fencing. Artistic fencing is what today brings people to learn more about real sword fight (from any age and in any format).
Sincerely hoping to have made you broaden your horizons,
fencing salutations,
Tiago da Cruz
paulogarcia8 3 weeks ago
Once again a great vid but you still ignore the historical evidence of edge on edge blocking.
I like your enthusiasim and knowledge.Keep up the good work
jadekayak01 3 weeks ago
@ContradictoryNature it might just be me but i notice in full out steel vs steel sparring a lot of times you dont really care if you parry edge v edge if only because its a bit faster. sure it can work hell on a blade but im pretty sure knights were more concerned about their lives than the tools. just my 2 cents.
volarion 3 weeks ago
@volarion
I feel that some parries with the flatis faster than with the edge. I'm also a fan of the thumb on flat grip so often the flat parry is stronger. I do however not always use the flat but most time. It's more like "holy fu##¤ sh"# I have to parry" and many times the block will be with the flat or in an angle near the flat. By locking at my training sword there is no marks, yet, of a parry directly on the edge, all is in an angle.
gurkfisk89 3 weeks ago
@gurkfisk89 My reaction to flat parries in the hangings is generally 'WHY DO YOU HATE YOUR THUMB'.
halfassedfart 3 weeks ago
@halfassedfart
I have my thumb close to my body, away from my opponents blade, so how do I hate my thumb? But sure the thumb is exposed at times but that is true for both flat and edge parries.
gurkfisk89 3 weeks ago
@gurkfisk89 I was referring to the use of the thumb to support the flat. A hard strike can collapse a flat parry and mess up your thumb.
halfassedfart 3 weeks ago
@halfassedfart
Perhaps, I haven't yet felt any danger with it. For the low hengen I see no problem at all. For the high hengen maybe. If you are in the right there is also nearly no problem as you can point your thumb nearly straight down. So the only danger is in the left high hengen. If your opponent strike close to your guard the guard will not collapse. If the strike is near your tip it can collapse the guard but if someone strike at your tip...
gurkfisk89 3 weeks ago
@halfassedfart
... you are not in any real danger so you can easily lover your right elbow and the whole guard to keep your thumb safe. And the strike will usually not com directly from abow and you can easily turn your thumb counter clockwise if it's a diagonal attack.
This is ofc not the answer to everything but it does work rather good for me.
Now that I think about it, maybe I don't use the thumb on the flat as often in that position. Hmm, I will think about this in training.
gurkfisk89 3 weeks ago
@volarion
But that's just me. I haven't seen any good evidence for either "only edge parry" or "only flat parry" yet in the manuals. But I think the flat parry is to prefer because, as they say in the video, you don't ruin your edge and you don't have to turn your blade to hit your opponent. If I keep my edge facing my opponent only the weirdest cuts will hit my edge.
gurkfisk89 3 weeks ago
God am I strong!
MrTwhispers 4 weeks ago
00:56 That doesn't look like the flat of your strong :P
Venethor 1 month ago in playlist Favorite videos
@Venethor : It was.
Halofreakanoid 3 weeks ago
he woulda kept repeating something stoopid like 'arrow to the knee' instead but that would have been unoriginal
ShadeCoil 1 month ago
fladda my straw
FrenzySliver 1 month ago 7
Strong of my flat.
theshninja 1 month ago
i really dont get why anyone would block with the edge anyways....
xtreme0ride 1 month ago
Comment removed
ContradictoryNature 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@xtreme0ride Mostly from a lack of flexibility in the wrist and grip. The "typical" grip has blade alignment at 90 degrees to the knuckles (pointing "out" from your fist). To block, your arm has to be behind it, you can't absorb the shock with your hand. So you turn so your wrist, elbow and usually shoulder are in alignment. This ends up with the edge intercepting the cut. Try it for yourself. You'll notice Clements is using a grip where the blade alignment is perpendicular to the knuckle face.
ContradictoryNature 1 month ago
The Bacon Strips and Bacon Strips of swordplay.
NetVoyagerOne 1 month ago
im going to try this on my next training, greeting from mexico n__n
xXvanhukXx 1 month ago
Flat of my strong.
leeham991 1 month ago 15
lol this guy reminds me of that martial arts guy from napoleon dynomite
spawn10317 1 month ago
ohay team avolition....:D
iProApocaLypsE 2 months ago
John Clements is the biggest laughing-stock of the whole fencing community. How can u watch THIS and agree with him
91Parabellum 2 months ago
@91Parabellum
While I can agree that there are sometimes that you want to go edge on edge I can't see why you would like to parry edge on edge in most cases.
Can you please explain why I should parry with my edge and damaging my sword and have my edge facing my opponents sword and not my opponent rather than parrying with my flat?
gurkfisk89 2 months ago
@gurkfisk89 Hard to explain in 500 letters. The main reason ist that u are much stronger in the bind. Furtermore there should be no parrying, meaning just as a "versetzen". Most counterattacks against Zornhau like absetzen Zwerchhau Schillhaw etc. are only possible by ramming your edge violently in ur opponents blade. This is fencing and not how do i conserve my sword ;-) (no offend).
91Parabellum 2 months ago
@91Parabellum
I feel that I'm stronger in the bind using my flat. I think this is because I usually use the "thumb on the flat" grip when it comes to binding. I expect that, if you usually use an other grip on the bind, it's really possible that you feel something else.
I can't agree more about static parries (500 limit).
For the countering of the zornhau. If you attacks me with a Zornhau and I counter with a Zwerchhau. I think the ideal way would be if I can cut to your head with my weak...
gurkfisk89 2 months ago
@91Parabellum
...and at the same time catch your blade with my strong. If your Zorn comes from above and is facing me and my Zwerch comes horizontally, then I find that my edge will connect with your flat, so no really edge on edge there. If we take two right diagonal oberhau against each other I'm more for the edge on aproach. But even then the edges will not connect in an angle so the blades really will bite into each others edges.
gurkfisk89 2 months ago
@91Parabellum
"not how do i conserve my sword" (not offended)
Absolutley, but I still don't want to destroy my blade if it's not necessary, and in some cases I can really se that even a full edge on edge 90 degree full force static block would be a good idea. But that would be the exeption and not the rule. Everything in between is ok imho.
As I said, I'm not against ramming your edge violently into the other blade but I don't /want/ to ram it against an other edge.
gurkfisk89 2 months ago
@gurkfisk89 The 2. thing ist that there is acutally NO evidence in the old writings that advice u to parry the "Clements way"
91Parabellum 2 months ago
@91Parabellum
I haven't seen any real evidence in the old writings for or against any of the two ways of parry. If you can find someone advising "always protect yourself by cutting at his edge" I would really want to se it. Or if any manuscript say "never use your flat, it is to weak". But as stated, I haven't seen anything like that the other way around either.
Sorry for the wall of text. I'm looking forward for your answer, this is still a mystery to me and I like to hear more from your side.
gurkfisk89 2 months ago
@gurkfisk89 The problem is that we are wiritng on youtube and cant show what we mean ;-) In the most cases the 90 degree blocks dont happen anyway because the sword mostly hit in very various angles and "slip" into each other ( cant translate it propperly). Yes i hold the sword in something i would call a hammer grip. I feel stronger in the bind this way and just use the thumb grip for specific techniques like zwechhau, or redeln or for a proper thrust from ward Pflug.
91Parabellum 2 months ago
@gurkfisk89 At least there is no real evidence that advice us to parry in the one or the other way but the system just seems more logical for me when i use my edge for "parrying" (i dont like this word ;-)) I think the old masters didnt talk so much about this theme like we do :D Otherwise there would be a clear statement of a master to this topic. I just dont like this Clements who preaches his "findings" , thinking he is the god of historical fencing.
91Parabellum 2 months ago
@91Parabellum
""slip" into each other ( cant translate it propperly)."
I think know what you mean.
For the grip, it's maybe because I use the flat so much in the wind (I just tested some air cutting Zorn -> winden and either putting the thumb on the flat or not -> ox) I think that if I didn't turn towards the flat but rather to the edge I don't think I need the thumb and it will in that case be a bad thing. Hmm, I think I will try this out some more. It's always good to be able to do more things
gurkfisk89 2 months ago
@91Parabellum
Yea, parrying is the wrong word. But st has it's uses, many in my group trains with rapier and dagger. And if you have a parrying dagger it's an other story =).
"Otherwise there would be a clear statement of a master to this topic."
Idk, I feel that the masters are really good at clear statements =). I mean, the more I read the more confused I get about what a krumphau is or if there is many different krumphaus =).
gurkfisk89 2 months ago
@91Parabellum
The only think they seems to agree on over the years is that the art comes before strength and that your footwork should be "good" and such. =)
I have pusseled feeliings for Clements and other that /preaches/ in similar ways. Do I think that the "I'm right, you're wrong" mentality is the best way? Ofc not. But I still like them to show what they think and I like that they are confident in what they say. In many occasions I agree with much of it, and other times I learn something.
gurkfisk89 2 months ago
As someone who practices eastern martial arts, and someone who appreciates and would love to practice western martial arts, this makes a lot of sense, because the way the blocks are done, they remind me of some of my Kempo blocks in their most basic theory and way they deflect the attack so naturally. It just makes so much sense from a physics as well as a strategic standpoint, it's really brilliant.
IvonoftheGWF 2 months ago
19 people fought against John Clements and got all their strikes blocked by the flat of his strong.
Vondanzigkungfu 2 months ago
My favorite part was when he told us about the flat of his strong.
greyspot00 2 months ago
@c0nqu3r3rlol there is a lot of skill involved in using a longsword, look up longsword sparring, hema alliance should bring up some good links
volarion 3 months ago
How to use a longsword
1. Pick it up
2. Swing
Congratulations you've learned it
c0nqu3r3rlol 3 months ago
@c0nqu3r3rlol
I totally agree. Master cuts, winden, fülen and such other nonsense are unimportant in learning the longsword. As long as you can swing it you are a master.
gurkfisk89 3 months ago
@c0nqu3r3rlol How to be dead in a very few time:
1. Follow c0nqu3r3rlol's instructions and believe you learned it
2. Fight someone who REALLY knows how to use a longsword.
Congratulations, you're dead!
Railriderchris 3 months ago
@Railriderchris Well in Americaland, people are fat. Thank God I'm not, but it's not too often a fat kid asks to swordfight with me.
c0nqu3r3rlol 3 months ago
@c0nqu3r3rlol Huh? I can't find the joke or anything funny in your comment. A pity, i thought that could have been interesting...
Railriderchris 3 months ago
FLAT OF MY STRONG
LetsWatchThisGuy 3 months ago
Flat of my strong.
MrErizai 3 months ago
2:13, 2:34...don't do that. See how his wrist is? If I was going full force, that is a broken wrist. Yes a lot of times, the swords will meet edge to flat naturally using the historical techniques...but when your doing funky things with your wrist to make it ALWAY meet flat, that is a flawed interpretation as your gonna end up with a broken wrist (and historically that means death...so a bad idea).
ColdNapalm42 3 months ago
@ColdNapalm42
In theory, I'd agree. In practice, it's not as "funky" as it looks.
HipposHateWater 2 months ago
@HipposHateWater No, not even in practice...a wrist in that position shown in a real fight is a broken wrist. There is no way that the human wrist in those positions can take a full impact blow. It's not a theory, it's biology and physics.
ColdNapalm42 2 months ago
@ColdNapalm42
I don't know, maybe. But because you have your arms bent in that position so I think more likley that your arm will bend, or move down or that your sword will rotate around your thumb instead of rotate the thumb. But sure if you have a really firm grip with your right hand there might be a risk of a broken wrist. I would not want to block a pollaxe or other pole weapons like that.
gurkfisk89 2 months ago
@ColdNapalm42
For the first pic, 2:14, I agree that the wrist is bend in a funky position and I think it's a bad way to block. But I'm not sure if his wrist was in that position in the time of impact or if it ended up in that position after the hit, if that's the case then I think his wrist will be fine even if it's not a good position to maintain any pressure to the blade if that's what you want.
gurkfisk89 2 months ago
Comment removed
HipposHateWater 2 months ago
@ColdNapalm42
Gurkfisk explained it much better than I could have.
HipposHateWater 2 months ago
Oooh, Albion swords, eh? Tried it myself, really quick blades.
PeterHSPeter 3 months ago
guy needs to calm the fuck down man
KingCribble 4 months ago
please someone do a remix on this vid. FL flfl flat my mymymy stroooooong
Indabaz 4 months ago
What stops me from cutting off his fingers instead of trying to hit the flat of his strong
bravocmdr 4 months ago
@bravocmdr
The crossguard, If you turn the sword just a little bit after the swords meet you will be fine.
gurkfisk89 4 months ago 2
flat of my strong
bravocmdr 4 months ago
Where are you guys? I want to do this. I want to take it all the way. I want to be the man giving this lesson.
uttoushii 4 months ago
@uttoushii
These people are from ARMA, but there is more groups that's practicing this. Here is a map of some of the groups. (Remove the stars).
ww*w.communitywalk.c*om/THE-HEMA-ALLIANCE-Training-Partner-Finder
gurkfisk89 4 months ago
derp de herp de diddly derp
l3054 4 months ago
Herp a Dero hurrr derr wooooot ?????? hurrrrrr hur uhrrrrhrhruhrrerwshdge\rafdhmyjthdgfvbn nbmcjhfg bfchgbvfx cfbv
TheDisabledCube 4 months ago
What is the name of the ARMA teacher. He is great!
emceha 4 months ago
@emceha
That's John Clements. He's the director of ARMA.
gurkfisk89 4 months ago 2
Wow, great video.
tallswede80 4 months ago
Lol now every time I block in a fighting game Iam gona yell FLAT OF MY STRONG!
SomeDude1403 4 months ago
FLAT OF MY STRONG!
Ieatmudkipz 5 months ago
woo, ARMA 2!
Oh, wait.
9volt65 5 months ago
I wanna learn this skill. Where can I learn in Hong Kong?
vic001tor 5 months ago
@vic001tor Lance Chan who makes "Realistic Sparring Weapons" aka RSW is in Hong Kong and has a training group there.
Kunstdesfechtens 5 months ago
With the flat of the blade, with the flat of the blade, with the flat of the blade, with the flat of the blade...
BolanokTanoshi 5 months ago
TEAM aVo!
cantbeatjoey 5 months ago
boobies
nonginger 5 months ago
flat of my strong hehe
Killercat1999 5 months ago
It's a good thing they included subtitles in the video. The part about blocking would be a bit unclear without them.
Vondanzigkungfu 5 months ago 14
@Vondanzigkungfu The part about blocking is still a bit unclear; he keeps saying that he's blocking not parrying, when what he means is he's parrying not blocking. Controlling your opponant's blade so it doesn't cut you is parrying. Directly interposing the attack is blocking. All blocking is parrying, but not all parrying is blocking.
TOMHYLE88 1 month ago
ITS THE FLAT OF MY STRONG!
100Ultimate 5 months ago
haha, of course team avo would like this. :>
Alfredo3700 5 months ago
Flat of my strong !
joe131194 5 months ago
So bad
reverendbigred 5 months ago
i was soooooo waiting for him to fail lol
moviemusic64 5 months ago
John you make our forefathers cry... :_(
DiscerningDisdain 5 months ago
Pretty sure the flat of your strong isn't going to stop a creeper.
MrVorgothe 5 months ago
i thought i was going to see someone get their fingers cut off. why are people so attracted to the pain of others?
linkfan196 5 months ago
He's like the Vince of sword fighting...
PGCProductionsJay 5 months ago
"Flat Of My Strong" is a really awkward name to give a pokemon.
mawknation 5 months ago
Can ur flat of ur strong stop a bullet?
adamson250 5 months ago
Hey remember that time he said "flat of my strong" me too
TheAxeGunner 5 months ago 13
anyone else confused why avo sent us here?
TheFireMongoose 5 months ago
@TheFireMongoose BECAUSE KRYSK CAN BLOCK ANY CUT- 360 DEGREES- WITH THE FLAT OF HIS STRONG
NOT THE EDGE
Quantum0700 5 months ago 4
@Quantum0700 Krysk can cut the flat of other people's strongs.
100Ultimate 5 months ago
@100Ultimate You bet he can.
Quantum0700 5 months ago
Team Avolition sent me here?
iWatchAnimeAIot 5 months ago
I've just been trolled.
D35troy3r199 5 months ago
Lol, Why the fuc* did aVo like this? Lmao!
XxHALOxX425 5 months ago
@XxHALOxX425 Because he liked the video.
you dumb bitch
imag1291 5 months ago
@imag1291 Jeez, calm down... I just asked why would he like this, gosh!
XxHALOxX425 5 months ago
umm why did avo fav this?
yogster10000 5 months ago
just fucking shoot the guy
go avo
coolguy42945 5 months ago
what is this i dont even
citruspinman 5 months ago
not bad, but why does avolition want a presence on this video?
I don't mind it, but this video isn't very trolly or fail worthy?
abyissal 5 months ago
I liked the part about the flat of a strong?
Snarks4Breakfast 5 months ago
thumbs up if team avolition got u here
535badpoo 5 months ago
press 2 to deflect with the flat of my strong
Meowcow42 5 months ago
pffft... throw 2 knives at him and go in with a dagger and that guy is finished. Two handed weapons are to slow. Speed is everything when it comes down to swords.
runeflame16 5 months ago
im confused
CrazyCornhuskerFan 5 months ago
AVO BROUGHT ME HERE!!!
SuperDumbassVideos 5 months ago
Press F13 for LOLZ!!!!
Like if you looked :D
Jumpspinfail 5 months ago
Lmao. wtf is this shit.
MrVorgothe 5 months ago
texture pack plz
garrettwarz 5 months ago
Flat on MY strong
Zachdudeio2 5 months ago
I liked the part when he said flat of my strong.
Childinfaith 5 months ago
Can you teach us how to defend ourselves from Creepers?
InfomercialRemixer 5 months ago
Back and to the left Back and to the left Back and to the left Back and to the left Back and to the left Back and to the left Back and to the left Back and to the left
Andoeriz 5 months ago
tanks for the tips! next time i get mugged by a hooligan with a longsword i can counter
DaGodDamBatman 5 months ago 3
Flatter my strong~ ;)
Smokecall 5 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
teamavoition?
spiderbait43 5 months ago 110
avo likes this
ytWatchhound 5 months ago
Texture pack?
deathonic 5 months ago
Iron swords? Psssshhh. Meet my diamond sword.
grillinIstheLife 5 months ago 54
@grillinIstheLife Diamond sword? Pssshhh. meet my Dirt house
MrCreatingFuture 5 months ago
@grillinIstheLife A diamond sword would suck.
halfassedfart 4 months ago 2
@grillinIstheLife : Have fun when the diamond is shattered. That's also steel, not iron.
Halofreakanoid 4 months ago 2
@Halofreakanoid derp herp
grillinIstheLife 4 months ago
@grillinIstheLife : herp derp
Halofreakanoid 4 months ago
@Halofreakanoid umm diamond is stronger than steel -.-
powersbr0 4 months ago
@powersbr0 : Only if it's flawless, it's completely full of imperfections and would crack and shatter when it hits somethinghard. Diamond cutting points are sharp but they are super small to prevent breaking.
Halofreakanoid 4 months ago
@powersbr0 harder not stronger
bruenor82 4 months ago
The virginity is strong in those.
MoreGaming 5 months ago
Avo. But also FUCKING EPIC LONGSWORDS.
FranticShipping 5 months ago
team avo is a bunch of kiddy faggots and you're all thirteen.
PeopleR2sensitive 5 months ago
@PeopleR2sensitive I parry your comment with the flat of my strong.
C12claws 5 months ago 4
@PeopleR2sensitive 0/10
Zalman1337 5 months ago
Team aVo FTW
bbob41357 5 months ago
like if youu came here cos of aVo
thethebigman01 5 months ago 82
Man speaks lot of truth but the way he puts it is obnoxious as fuck. Not really a teacher whose classes I'd want to attend if his attitude towards his pupils is the same as in this video.
Beethovenvirus 5 months ago
calm down pops, youre gonna burst a vein
Beethovenvirus 5 months ago
He parries all the strikes with ease. Wow, his flat must be really strong.
Vondanzigkungfu 5 months ago
i have heard that clements was banned from the polish arma people because he never dared to fight with full speed. fight full contact once and find out that all of your techniques are useless.
holmganghamburg 5 months ago
@holmganghamburg I heard many people tried to fight Clements but he just parried all their blows with the flat of his strong. They had no chance whatsoever.
Vondanzigkungfu 5 months ago 2
@Vondanzigkungfu LMAO - good one! ;)
CollegiumInArmis 5 months ago
@holmganghamburg i too have heard from the yeti and the reincarnation of michael jackson, but there is no proof for this. show me a video of a well trained fighter fighting clements and i will believe you.
i know that nobody in europe ever saw clements fighting against a wll trained opponent, because he onla had excuses for not appearing
holmganghamburg 5 months ago
@holmganghamburg
I don't know if he is banned. But there was some issue about a lot of challenges between JC and the guys in Poland. I'm a bit sad that the fights didn't happen, not because the "winner" would be right but because the fights would be very awsome to see. But an other part of me think it's a good thing that the fights didn't happened because the whole thing about "let's have a fight to see who is right" is not the best solution. And it would perhaps awake old grudge.
gurkfisk89 5 months ago
@gurkfisk89 we are from the hiebfechtbund in germany and many fighters wanted to challenge clements just so see whether his techniques work at full speed. nobody here cares about winning. but clements never agreed to a full contact fight. that is why everybody here thinks that his techniques are a fake.
holmganghamburg 5 months ago
@holmganghamburg
I don't think that ARMA's policy about being so insolated is good, not for ARMA and not for all of us others that tries to revive old fighting arts.
gurkfisk89 5 months ago
@holmganghamburg
That's weird; I've seen him fight in person a few months back, (he fought several individuals, might I add) and I KNOW there are videos of him fighting with proper intent and speed. Keep in mind that rumors are unreliable for a reason.
HipposHateWater 2 months ago
@HipposHateWater lol, post some links and show me videos. but let me guess, you cant find them.
holmganghamburg 2 months ago
this is a great video that can demonstrate to anyone who is only familiar with movie swordfighting just how wrong movies get it.
FoolingWithFuhlen 6 months ago in playlist All ARMA Vids
4:30 closing the gap was sick technique. This guy is super deadly with that longsword.
ModernDayProphets 6 months ago
these guys must get all the chicks...
ShaaaBang73 6 months ago
You guys are my heros.
There's no ARMA anywhere I live although I wish there was.
Charlizard777 7 months ago
@Charlizard777 There's plenty of HEMA groups around. Google 'HEMA global census'.
halfassedfart 6 months ago
I hate it when at medieval shows i see all that hogwash..theyre attacking each others swords not bodies..endless in that classical "X"pattern head head legs legs. using the edge..ah scratches my ear, u end up fighting with a saw not a blade and u almost need a new sword after each "fight" :)) i know its staged but a little more realism and imagination. a real swordfight whould last 5 secs at most, and not 5 mins of sensless edgebashing. rearly i see shows worth of watching.
11kman1 8 months ago