Scots Irish, Ulster Scots, The Plantation of Ulster

[uncleplugs]

I watched this video my tiny dad, and we both agreed that you sound like Liam Neeson.

[jwrielly]

@uncleplugs

Where is the rest of the video?

[MrFolan1982]

and they were free to practice their own religion too i take it.....Everyone was hugging each other...wait a minute did the incarnation of 'peace and love' stem from this point in time. What a load of absolute, biased,drivel! Yes, o neal was in cahoots initally and yes the papacy ironically backed the willemites. The truth is in the meaning of the word Colonise. Simple!

[gespb32]

Militant Irish Republicanism & Nationalism are Irish Protestant inventions, not Catholic/Gaelic, it is time we acknowledge their contribution to our nationalism & they remember what they are, Ulster Scottish but Irish nonetheless, remember 1798.

[timthedramatic2011]

3:52 wHAT IS THAT cAKE OR BREAD?

[JordoF6]

I want my 6 countys back!

[TheTwollocks]

i dont know much about this topic......but i googled who are the lowland scots and everytime it come up the same answer... they were anglo saxon......now wasn't it the lowland scots and northern english who settled ulster.......and if so .....they couldn't originally come from ireland could they.......and whats this also about lowland scots speaking a germanic language

[MrRatlicker]

@TheTwollocks The people that became the Ulster Scots in Northern Ireland and the Scots-Irish in the US were descended from the Lowland Scots and the Border Reivers culture. They were a blended people with the main 2 components being Celtic and Anglo-Saxon, but there were also admixtures of Norman, Flemish, Danish, and Norse among others. Later, there were French Huguenots and German Palatines that intermarried and became indistuingishable from them. Does that really matter, though? Honestly...

[MrRatlicker]

@TheTwollocks I mean if you go back far enough, all of our ancestors came from some other place, didn't they?

[madmiguelh2o]

tune in next week for the story of how the Indians were given new oppertunities in North America by the generous Europeans and they all lived happily ever after.

[segano1]

@Taiginator Many people can describe how Irish immigration turned the UK into an immoral hell hole.

[TheFutureadvocate]

@segano1 I think there is a far more convincing case for how the Scots turned Ulster into a horrible ghetto and made nothing but a nuisance out of themselves for the last 400 years.

[Sammy1234568910]

@TheFutureadvocate how do you come to that conclusion?

[TheFutureadvocate]

@Sammy1234568910 I haven't drawn any conclusions.

[Sammy1234568910]

@TheFutureadvocate so whats your case on Scots turrning Ulster into a ghetto and been a nuisance for 400 years?

[TheFutureadvocate]

@Sammy1234568910 I'm not really advocating that point of view.

There are a handful of super-Jocks on here who claim that the 'Irish' have been a blight on Scotland.Fine,but if we are to be fair then we must apply the same set of standards to those who migrated in the opposite direction.

[Islandretreat]

@TheFutureadvocate Not nearly as much evidence as there is for showing how Irish Romanists have ruined every country they evr settled in. Scotand, England, America etc etc. Irish Romanists have ruined the once great Calvinist Republic of America which is now ruled by warmongering Cardinals and Jesuits from St Patrick's Cathdral "The Political powerhouse of America". In Scotland and England the Irish Romanists were taught to steal and then lie on Oath. Morals have declined accordingly.

[Islandretreat]

Btw, every Irishman has got Scottish ancestry. St Patrick talks about two races inhabiting Hibernia--the Scoti (new comers from Scythia) and the Hiberni (natives). Pope Leo X imposed that name "Ireland" and "Irish" on the Scots of Scotia in the 16th century. Every Irishman has got Scottish and Hibernian ancestry.

[TheFutureadvocate]

@Islandretreat You're out of your mind.I wonder what African American slaves and Native Americans thought of your "once great Calvinistic Republic of America" and the supposedly high morals the country was built on.

You've got a nerve suggesting that Britain was some sort of bastion of moral behaviour before Irish immigration.You've always been a barbaric race,it's built into the sytem.Your morals have declined because you're a dead empire with nowhere to go.

[TheFutureadvocate]

@Taiginator I anticipated that response almost word for word.If Glasgow's ills are the fault of the 'Irish' then how come there is nowhere in Ireland like it? One would expect that to be the case but it isn't.

Who cares about your influence in America? The problem is that your own country is a nightmare.Heroin capital of Europe,some of the worst slums in Europe,low life expectancy,you outdrink your fellow Brits by 25%,rising sectarian related football hooliganism,the men wear skirts etc...

[GaraGambini]

@TheFutureadvocate

You said there is nowhere in Ireland that is like Scotland? Are you for real? The cities of Southern Ireland have been heroin ridden for decades, not to mention the well known problems with alcohol that the Irish have been suffering for centuries.

The fact that heroin EPIDEMICS exist in Dublin, Limerick & Cork but do not exist in ANY of the cities in Northern Ireland again proves my point in the differences between the peoples of the island.

[TheFutureadvocate]

@GaraGambini Well that's possibly the only upside to the paramilitaries in Northern Ireland.They kept Junk out of the place and still do.It's got nothing to do with temperance.

Nobody is saying Ireland is utopia.My post was a response to the insinuation that the 'Irish' were reponsible for Scotland's social problems.It's a racist perception amongst Scottish Loyalists which ignores the fact that Ireland's social problems are DWARFED by their own.One would expect them to be worse but they aren't.

[GaraGambini]

@TheFutureadvocate

The paramilitaries profit from the drugs trade. Always have, they control it.

[TheFutureadvocate]

@Taiginator Don't make me laugh.They are definitely not inferior to the Scottish.

I don't care about what a small handful of Scottish inventors did during the industrial revolution anymore than about how the Irish civilised you Jock idiots in the middle ages.The reality is that TODAY your country is one big scumbag ridden landfill.See Trainspotting or 'Glasgow Neds' for further details.

Scotland today is secular but yet still rife with sectarianism.That just about sums up the Jock temperament.

[kennyrfcstevo]

independent ulster,

one island TWO nations

[AaRoN2T10]

ALL WE FUCKING NEED IS A ALTERNATIVE ULSTER

[jtgw1981]

What's the name of this documentary?

[restlesswave]

@IrishItalian10 under charles II- they were kicked out of their homes,had their land stolen by the established church-made to pay exorbitant tithes etc they could serve as a petty constable in office i suppose. gaelic made up a large part of their native language-they were prohibited in using.their marriages invalidated,children deemed illegitimate,had us nationalists snapping at their heels. amongst other things.please research before you type.

[FinuteD1]

Ireland for the natives !! all huns can fuk off home !!!

[Ducksexbody]

Ulster Scots LOL aka Irish people with Scots Ancestry. You don't like Ireland fuck off over to Britain. Its a big Island across the water.

[scotinulster]

@Ducksexbody Who says we don't like it? We like it just fine here in the UK thanks.

[MrSplashcakes]

I hate these cunts nothing to do with Scotland now. the scots who went to ulster where mostly forced from their land in the borders. not all Scotland was protestant. Scotland is completely diffrent from these people in ulster today. hopefully have independence from britain in a few years and what will ulster scots say then when there brothers across the sea split their Unioun. your irish, we don't want you in Scotland, we dont want scotland associated with you, Fuck Off.

[Ducksexbody]

@MrSplashcakes Spot on well said. These inbreds are insecure and deluded to the fact actually people from Britain hate them. Prepare to be called a dirty padeo Fenian who will be blown up by a ''bamn'' by the UlsterVirginFoundation.

[boycey551]

@MrSplashcakes

The thing is though, you are a famine immigrant to Scotland from Ireland, you are not a native Scot. I have more Scottish blood than you and I've only been twice, and everyone I met loved Ulster and supported the union.

The famine is over...

[TheFutureadvocate]

@boycey551 You're right,he's not a native Scot anymore than you are a Native American.

But then again what is a 'native' Scot? I propose that you do a bit of research into the origins of Scotland and it's people.

[segano1]

They're called "Ulster-Scots" not "Scots-Irish" - Get it right you Yankee plastic Paddies.

[irelandrepublic]

@segano1 their called Scots-Irish in the USA. The same Scots-Irish that founded the KKK. Feels dirty that they would call Ulster-Scots Irish...

[segano1]

@irelandrepublic I don't give a fuck what the Yanks call it, they just do that to Hi-Jack a Scottish and Irish identity at the same time to avoid just being seen as another dumb Yankee.

Scotland is a real country, not fully independent, but a country none the less, look up the United Kingdoms constitution, "Scotland is a constituent 'country'".

And if you say Scotland is a province of the UK, then by your own logic, that makes Ireland a province of the EU, not so great now eh?

[donnararianful]

Ridiculously biased.

[GaraGambini]

After 1000 years the Ulster Scots people remain a separate identity in Ireland to this day. While all other people who settled in Ireland became Irish, the Vikings, Normans, Old English etc.

The Ulster Scots still remain a unique and different people despite 1000 years of hostility from the Irish. No Surrender!

[GaraGambini]

@segabegins

Wrong again my friend, the largest political party in Northern Ireland is the Democratic Unionist Party (DUP).

Of course Nationalists are entitled to vote for who they wish and sadly it has taken 30 years of violence to turn Sinn Fein into the SDLP for slow learners.

[segabegins]

@segabegins Bet you feel big now out smarting a 15 year old "my Friend"

tíocfaidh ár lá

[segabegins]

@GaraGambini I'm no friend of yours inbred cunt

[GaraGambini]

@segabegins

Ah ha, the mask has slipped, the mark of the man is clear. Your ignorance not only shines through with your lack of knowledge but also by your incapability to debate & remain well mannered.

Just remember 1100ad - 2011ad, still British, still undefeated and unbroken. No Surrender my friend.

[irelandrepublic]

Get off my land......Ulster Scots whatever the fu*k your calling yourselves these days just get out haha

Ulster Scots?? Haha was that an attempt to try make a culture that isn't solely focused on licking English arses??

[segano1]

@irelandrepublic You dirty fucks shouldn't have invaded the Scottish Picts land and set up a plastic kingdom Dal Riata on Argyll in the Scottish southern Hebrides, thakfully you all got bred back out with your numbers cut right down, what goes around comes around!

[irelandrepublic]

@segano1 oh piss off with your wish washy ancient crap. Come back to me when Scotlands a real country like the Republic of Ireland.....

Scotlands a province of the UK.....

[srkane48]

@irelandrepublic "Come back to me when Scotlands a real country like the Republic of Ireland..."

Oh you mean if Scotland becomes a third-world nation like the Republic of Ireland; a nation of delusional, supersitious over-breeders and EU beggars, who blindly follow a pedophilic, Nazi criminal in the Papal palace in Rome? Both Scotland and N.I are better off being apart of a civilized nation where secularism is an option and one is not mandated to procedures dating back to the Middle Ages.

[gearoiddom]

@srkane48 The Irish head of state, Uachtarán na hÉireann, can be of any faith. The head of the British state, not so much. Who is progressive and who is stuck in the middle ages in that context? The sad irony of it all is that presbyterianism (priesthood of all people) and republicanism (res publica - thing of the people) go hand in hand. Look the the revolution in the U.S. and look at the United Irishmen in 1798.

[Sammy1234568910]

@gearoiddom perhaps but the head of state in the Republic of Ireland isn't the head of a church? The main reason Ppresbyterianism stopped being linked with Irish Republicanism is because after the 1801 act of union the Dublin parliament that discriminated against anyone who wasn't an Anglican was abolished and Ireland was brought under direct control from London which ment all the discrimination stopped and for the first time ever every religion could have a say on how their country was run.

[gearoiddom]

@Sammy1234568910 "direct control from London which ment all the discrimination stopped " I'm pretty sure that this is not historically accurate Sammy - otherwise what was Daniel O'Connell all about? The Scotch Irish, as they were known in the Americas, threw off the yoke of monarchy there as soon as they could and worked in conjunction with their erstwhile oppressors, the episcopalians of the eastern cities, to build a whole new nation, the greatest the world has ever seen.

[Sammy1234568910]

@gearoiddom yes they did because unlike Ireland in America religion was left out of politics and theUSA constitution preached freedom of religion which the Scotch-Irish supported which is why 1/3 of the continental army was scotch-Irish despite only making up3or5%of the population.O'Connell wanted repeal of the Wellington Administration which supported prod middle and upper class,O'Connell got alot of his funding from collecting at chapels thus accidently linking Nationalism with Catholicism

[gearoiddom]

@Sammy1234568910 Fair point. I believe Red Hugh O'Donnell might have beaten him to first forging that ill-conceived link between Catholicism and Nationalism. O'Connell, in conjunction with the RC clergy, had no great love for Gaelic language, being contented to see its virtual demise. In the reformed traditions, written language was key due to the culture of self-read scripture. This preserved Welsh. There was no rush by RC priests to translate scripture to Irish. William Bedell stepped forward.

[Sammy1234568910]

@gearoiddom well I wouldn't know too much about that I've only studied nationalism in the 19th century which actually covered from about 1790to1925, but you are right in that discriminated Ulster Scots did play a big role in early Irish Nationalism indeed messages were written in Ulster Scots during the United Irishmen uprising so English soldiers couldn't read them something that isn't really acknowledged too much by anyone.

[monreader]

@srkane48 haha. What a funny comment. Scotland is the biggest shithole in the world. Scotland and Northern Ireland are a drain on the English taxpayers. Id say the majority of the people in the "civilized nation" of England would want Scotland and Northern Ireland to fuck off out of the United Kingdom.

[TheFutureadvocate]

@segano1 Picts + Gaels = Scotland.It wasn't an invasion,it was an alliance.Dal Riada is part of your heritage and your history.It's in your blood.

Now please don't come back telling me something stupid like you are of 100% Pictish blood going back 1500 years...

[segano1]

@TheFutureadvocate Do some fucking research you tit, the vast overwhelming majority of Scots are Pictish, even two thirds of what of was Dál Riata is Pictish today, Scots are not Irish, and Dál Riatans weren't even Irish either, Dál Riata was pushed to Ulster (N.Ireland) by the Iberian invaders (real Irish), and was separate from the Irish, it consisted of Ulster (NE.Ireland) and the Hebrides (SW.Scotland)

This is proved by OGAP4 code found all over Scotland.

[TheFutureadvocate]

@segano1 Too much rubbish in your posts to be bothered.Anything that has any merit i wasn't arguing against in the first place.

[segano1]

@TheFutureadvocate Con't, Also I never said anything about 100% blood as there is no such thing today, in fact there never was, but we are a vast majority of what we are and where we were born and bred that makes us who we are, and the Scots by far and large are Caledonian Picts, by OGAP4 code.

Scottish land and population history even pre-dates Ireland's by a good 4000 years,

Google "14,000 year old hunting kit found in Scotland"

Google "Irish tribemen the Scots did not come from Ireland"

[segano1]

@TheFutureadvocate

Scots = Caledonian Picts of ancient Scotland (Alba/Caledonia).

Irish = Iberian invaders from what's now Spain.

Incidently, the "Irish" didn't even get that name until the 1600's when it was imposed by Pope Leo X on the Irish.

"Celtic" = A made up modern term invented by a linguist from the mid 1800's to strictly describe language similarities only, it was later hi-jacked by Irish republicans in the early 1900's to include culture and people as one too (which they're not).

[AaRoN2T10]

was the plantation of ulster not in 1609

[micknm]

put the blame where it belongs the catholic church and william the second of orange and the second bloody mary queen of scots

and they would not submit to be forced to change to catholicisms thus the reformation of christianity since the crown violated their oath

and then the people were forced to move to america or die via coffins ships

[ProtestantlRA]

so loyalists were actually cool in 1610, which year did they become complete cunts then?

[meximike1989]

what the heck is scots irish anyways im part scots irish and dont know if its scottish or irish which one is it?

[CelticSon88]

@meximike1989 Ulster-Scots are Scots who emigrated to Ulster in Norther Ireland.

[meximike1989]

@CelticSon88 oh ok thanks than

[irelandrepublic]

@meximike1989 it's not real Irish, your ancestors were invaders of Ireland, similar to the white boers/Afrikaners in South Africa, thats how they treated the indigenousIrish population......

They were backed up and helped by the armies of Britain.......didn't the Ulster Scots set up the KKK in America??

See what I mean not nice people wherever they go.....

Hopefuly you got some other ancestory......

[meximike1989]

@irelandrepublic yea i have plenty more ancestory thats just some of my ancestory that i wanted to know about so yea thanks though for the info

[scotinulster]

@irelandrepublic Were the Gaels not invaders of Ireland? Were they not violent warring people who couldn't make peace on a small island made up of many tiny fiefdoms? Did they not conduct murderous raids on Wales, England & Scotland, taking slaves back to Ireland long before Anglo-French Normans set foot on Irish soil? Were the Irish not invaders of Scotland? All lands have a history of violent conflict yet you try to depict Ulster-Scots as some kind of ultimate evil!? Wise up ya wee numpty.

[Ducksexbody]

You have to laugh at thick as shit Unionists who have been nothing but exploited by the british the same as there descendants all so Britain could try to keep a foothold in Ireland.

Hundreds of years later the descendants of the original pawns are still doing there job of causing division and conflict in ireland.

No respect for themselves.

[BenderWA]

Ugh, this video made me sick.

[timothymcparland123]

you are an ignorant ugly litte man

[Macgomery]

He speaks truth , but is a little sugar coated and one sided. On can make such statments on both sides of the conflict. But to say he is lieing is just not true. The facts suport what he says. Some would like to rewrite history . I am not sure of his motives though. lol he does seem a little sinister and odd with the cake cutting...lol !

[Macgomery]

The Plantations were mostly settled by lowland Scots , not highland Scots. Lowland Scots are part old britt iron age celtic . They are more kin to the Welsh than the Irish Scoti tribe . Plus they have alot of germanic D.N.A . as do many English. So lowlanders are very Brittish and Very Irish like the Highlanders. Not all Scots or the same.

[tirnaog09]

@Macgomery, You twist history a bit by comparing the lowland Scots to the Welsh. Yes the lowlands were well settled by a variety of groups but by far the biggest incursion came from Ireland in historical times as well as post famine times. The Kingdom of Dalriada (roughly strathclyde region) was a powerful Irish Kingdom in Scotland and the unification of those Irish with the Picts under Kenneth McAlpine brought about the nation of Scotland. Don't look for division where none exists

[tirnaog09]

As a Scot of Irish descent, I find it interesting that Ulster Scots are proud (rightly) of their heritage yet some of their camp followers would deny the Irish-Scots the same privilige, calling them 'Plastic Paddies' and urging them to 'go home' now that 'the famine is over' How do they square that circle? I try to remember that the Scots and the Irish are essentially the same people and 99% of them are the salt of the Earth regardless of creed, colour or religion.

[TenderTrap86]

@tirnaog09 Maybe, it's because the Ulster Scots didn't assimilate at all into Irish culture. They remained more of a seperate, distinct ethnic group. /// There's a similar situation in America. In the south western part of the country, there are so many Mexicans that have come over and started families that they're not really American or Mexican. They can speak English and Spanish with equal fluency. They're culture is a hybrid of Mexican and American. They've become to be called "Chicanos".

[tirnaog09]

!nteresting analogy but the Scots and Irish are the same ethnic group. The Scotii Tribe from Ireland gave Scotland its name & an 18th century traveller in the highlands stated that the locals spoke 'Irish' Religion drove awedge between these people and was a divisive force helping check the growth of Irish national consciousness. The United Irishmen rebellion frightened the life out of the establishment because it showed that Rcs and dissenting Protestants could work together.

[TenderTrap86]

@tirnaog09 Oh, sure. I'm aware that the Irish and Scots have common Gaelic heritage. But, it may be that ethnicities can't help but diverge after enough time goes by. The United Irish did do a lot of unite Catholics and Protestants under the leadership of Wolfetone, but I believe the Orange Order was also formed during the Rebellion of '98 to put down the UI rebels. And since the Rebellion was squashed by the crown, perhaps that Enlightenment ideal was never fully realized and division remained.

[tirnaog09]

Irish history would have been fascinating to guess at if the United Irishmen had succeeded. Involving the revolutionary French was interesting given their persecution of the RC Church at home We'll never know. May I draw your attention to the 'Island of Ireland Peace Park' in Flanders and the wonderful inscription there which commemorates the Dead of the Irish/Ulster 36th, 10th and 16th Divisions on the Somme. Well worth a look. respect to you Sir, you argue with skill and obvious intelligence.

[TenderTrap86]

@tirnaog09 As a yank, I'm going to take that as a tremendous compliment. We seem to be getting very few these days, especially when it comes to skill and most particularly when it comes to intelligence. lol Thank you and respect to you, as well. - my regards

[Macgomery]

@tirnaog09 The term Scots- Irish was created in America when English imigrants would simply call them "Irish since they arived from Northern Ireland. Many did not like being confussed with the native Irish. They would quickly remind them that they were Ulster Irish , Scotish , or Scots-Irish. The term Scots-Irish became wildly used when native Irish sarted ariving during the famine days. Hillbilly is a American term for the the "Billy Boys" who settled into the mountains and hill countries.

[tirnaog09]

@Macgomery , The term 'Ulster Irish' is a little confusing too given that the 9 counties of Ulster contain an indigenous Irish majority. I think some of you are trying very hard to make a case for an ethnic difference between the native and planters which DNA would suggest is minimal. I would repeat my earlier point that the Irish in Scotland are called 'Plastic Paddys' by the loyalist fringe there, yet those same people would maintain they're different from the locals in Ireland? strange.

[soundoulehead]

Are the Irish then supposed to be grateful? Oh, thank you very much for carving up our land and taking it away from us! Sure we're happy now that we have been "given" all the unfertile mountainous land on the west coast! What a load of nonsense.

[deadeye012006]

uh why do Americans call themselves Scots Irish if your Scots Irish there know Irish blood flowing though your veins the real terminology is Ulster Scots who were Scots and to a lesser extent English who lived in Northern Ireland .

[kermittoneill]

@deadeye012006 I'm pretty sure the term 'Scotch Irish' came about decades before (18th century) the term 'Ulster Scots'. Not 100% like lad, but worth checking out. Good luck to ye anyway.

[MalvinMcpot]

No such thing as an honest planter

[dcoltbolt13]

I'm 3/8 Scots-Irish, 2/8 German, 1/8 French, 1/8 English and 1/8 Sicilian.

[Flipper79able]

@dcoltbolt13 That is incredibly interesting.

[dancin79]

The ulster protestant has been demonised in recent times, unfairly for the most part however, greeting from an Irish/gaelic born again christian:)

Liberty, Equality & Fraternity for all.

[gert83]

Yeah, it was (is?) a true civil dispute. The Ulster Scots, like all Scots, descended from the people of Dalriada which included bits of Ulster. They're thought of as Anglicised, but in fact there's evidence that many spoke Scottish Gaelic, which is not surprising given how widespread Scots Gaelic would have been in the 17th C. compared to now. They also married freely with Irish Catholics. They were really Protestant Gaels!

[restlesswave]

if the deal with the `british`was so good for all why were the planted presbyterians treated worse than even the native irish ultimately leading them to found the united irishmen with the native irish? until the british used latterly their divide and conquer tactics and turn it into a nasty little religious conflict?-as the man says dig a little for more facts.

[NythReiver]

Queen Mary planted Catholics in Ireland as well, so the Protestants weren't the only ones doing that, especially if you consider what Urban II did when he called for a Crusade, and colonized Antioch, Acre and Jerusalem with Catholics.

Regardless of that, these are past events. They didn't happen today or even yesterday. You and I can have no idea of what those things feel like; you are not your ancestors.

[Derrychrin]

it doesnt say anything, it sugar coating the fact that they had their land taking of them.. and this 25 percent that they owned was reserved for the ulster version of connaught.. the west of the bann. places like carrickmore ect. and how did oneill hold his territories in and iron grasp.?? stupid stupid video

[susswald]

This is all well and good, but the lines that divided protestant and catholics were not so prominantly drawn until after the Cromwellian land settlement, by 1704 only 14% of Irish land was owned by the Catholics (old Irish, and old english settlers).

[ProvosAttYourDoor]

kinda feelin a bit bad about all them planters I killed now

[HahaJubJub92]

im from alabama (U.S.) and im scots-irish mix, german, and french, pretty much everyone down here is irish or french xD

[seonidh]

Scots-Irish or Irish?

[HahaJubJub92]

no i mean all the ones i listed are all mixed together, and yes scots-irish :)

with german and french

[TheClarenceter]

@HahaJubJub92 You are all American and not one single American is Irish, Scottish or French.

[aran31562]

............such crap. Their land was STOLEN. WHat about the penal laws? are they just made up? No, they're fact. All ireland ever wanted was just to be left alone, evident from the republic of ireland today. Why did it HAVE to be conolised? So what if they're not protestant and not "civilised", who cares? But no, england had to stick their nose in, and said "hey this is great, lets take over a qurarter of the earths population". Which they did and inevitably collapsed.

[johnnyvst]

Read a few books, the proportion of Protestants in the Republic fell from ten percent in 1922 to three percent today. The proportion of Catholics in Northern Ireland rose from 28 percent in 1922 to 44 percent today. Which of those figures, in your opinion, offers stronger evidence of religious discrimination?

Stop reading pop histories of Ireland tailored to the sympathies of the lower and more ignorant kind of Irish-American — the kind who, in my experience, cant locate us on a map.

[Derrychrin]

did we all stop them breeding or what?some moved to the north others simply died of as you know protestants tend to have smaller families,coupled with the fact that the irish had larger families and i challenge you to name 3 people who are protestant that were killed in the troubles in the republic.. look at all the protestants living down south are they not proud of their heritage with numerous orange hall. yet they play G.A.A eg joe deane of cork and sing the national anthem.

[johnnyvst]

I take up your challenge.

22 December 1979, Hazelton, Stanley (48) Protestant. Monaghan

15 January 1989, Keys, Harold. (25) Protestant. Ballintra, County Donegal

27 August 1979 (15) Maxwell, Paul, Protestant. Mullaghmore Harbour, County Sligo

[Derrychrin]

i was beat there,, but they are the boarder counties.. im on about anywere outside ulster.. u got one in sligo

[GaraGambini]

@johnnyvst

Well demonstrated! Roman Catholics are quick to forget the 100s of Protestants who died as a result of IRA violence in the Republic from 1922 onwards.

[segabegins]

@GaraGambini And rightly so maybe if they fucked off were they weren't welcome they'd have survived

[GaraGambini]

@segabegins

The only claim to Ireland by the Celt is by the sword and by the sword it was taken from them by its rightful owners - the Ulster Scots. Those people who lived in Ireland before the Celts arrived were forced to Scotland by the new invaders. They returned with the Plantation.

[GaraGambini]

@segabegins

They weren't doing England's dirty work, they were returning to their rightful homeland. This part of Ireland is now our home and it has been for well over 1000 years. Thats longer than most nations have existed, fact.

Your attitude is one of the past. The people of Northern Ireland now have a Government with our own elected politicians. A United Ireland is no longer an issue for the people, we have more pressing and real issues to deal with i,e, jobs etc.

Just accept it.

[TheFutureadvocate]

@GaraGambini Your claims of a return to a homeland are structurally compromised.There was no Reformation 1000 years ago so your 'seperate identity' in Ulster back then couldn't possibly exist.

What were the traits of the Ulster Scots 1000 years ago that seperated them from the rest of the Ireland? If you are honest you'll know that you can't answer this question.

I support the peace process but enough of this fanatical shite.The people who vote for SDLP or SF were here 1000 years ago.Not you!

[GaraGambini]

@TheFutureadvocate

The Táin bó Cualnge tells just exactly how different the peoples of Ulster & Ireland were. Albann (Scotland) was where Cuchulainn was sent to undertake special military training, he fathered his only son there, it was where his contemporaries often visited. Cúchulainn always fought for independence from the Irish Gaels of the south, Albann was always considered the "fatherland".

[TheFutureadvocate]

@GaraGambini I'm cringing for you.Cú Chulainn was an Irish mythological hero so it's irrelevant.But if you wanna pursue this then fine...

His real father 'Lugh' was a HIGH KING OF IRELAND.No seperate Ulster identity there.Oops!

Cú Chulainn fought against Queen Medb of Connacht not as you say "the south".Incidentally,Queen Medb was married to Conchobar mac Nessa of Ulster who was Cú Chulainn's grandfather.It was a family feud.No seperate Ulster identity there.Oops!

[GaraGambini]

@TheFutureadvocate

You really don't get it do you? Your Irish chauvinism is clear.

[TheFutureadvocate]

@GaraGambini What chauvenism?My comments on Scotland were in direct response to a fanatical lunatic called "Taiginator" who claimed we were inferior to the Scots.

I merely pointed out a few of the social problems that Scotland has worse than anywhere else in these isles (forgot to mention domestic abuse).Predictably he blamed the 'Irish' in Scotland for all their ills.This idea,just like your "1000 year seperate identity" nonsense doesn't stand up to scrutiny for reasons i've already outlined.

[segano1]

@TheFutureadvocate Modern Irish culture is also a direct copy of traditional Scottish culture, from the early 1900's onwards with the newly re-invented Irish nationalism and Irish myth makers like Henry Sarks and W.H Grattan Flood's 1911 myth where he attenpted to re-write Irish historry to make it seem as great as Scottish while addopting Scottish culture, re-branding it as Irish and being critical of Scotland in the process to give the Irish culture some kind of pedigree that it never had.

[GaraGambini]

@TheFutureadvocate

I wasn't talking about your views on Scotland I am talking about your refusal to accept that any other identity existed other than the Celts. I believe Scotland has caught up on the same problems that have dogged Ireland for decades.

[GaraGambini]

@TheFutureadvocate

If the peoples of Ulster were the same as the rest of Ireland then why did Colum-Cille need an interpretor when he traveled among the peoples of Ulster? Why was the ‘Black Pig’s Dyke’ built by the Cruthini to keep out the Southern ‘Ibero-Celts’? How come the people of Ulster survived the famine due to their Scottish agricultural methods, unlike the rest of Ireland they did not soley depend on the potato.

Your SDLP & SF voter comments highlight your ignorance.

[TheFutureadvocate]

@GaraGambini Colmcille WAS FROM Ulster! Why would he need an interpreter amongst his own people?Nice try. He used interpreters only in Pictish Scotland.Tellingly,he didn't need them in Leinster.

Black Pig's Dyke was to prevent cattle raiding.It had nothing to do with politics or race.Ian Adamson appropriated these ideas for a clear political agenda.Paper never refused ink.

"Cruthini" were all over Ireland especially in Connacht.

The famine is post Plantations so it is irrelevant to the point.

[GaraGambini]

@TheFutureadvocate

Lets try and make this easy for you.

What happened to the Vikings?

What happened to the Normans?

What happened to the Old English?

All absorbed into Irish culture, have the Ulster Scots been absorbed into Irish culture?

[TheFutureadvocate]

@GaraGambini They weren't absorbed into Irish culture.Irish culture is a composite of these and earlier influences.

I know the Ulster Scots haven't been 'absorbed' but i don't know how you think this furthers your argument that they were here 1000 years ago with a seperate identity.

The arguments you've proposed for this have been recklessly cherry picked.You tried the Cú Chulainn angle but neglected to look at the whole story.His lineage completely destroys any notion of a seperate identity.

[GaraGambini]

@TheFutureadvocat Just about every historian refers to 'the Ulstermen' & makes a distinct point on their difference between them & the 'Irish.' Scotland is of more bearing & significance to Ulster, socially, economically and politically than the rest of Ireland has ever been.

My original point is that the 'Planters' were merely returning to their homeland (albeit as Protestants) which they had been forced from by the invading Celts centuries before. I commend you on your good clean debate.

[TheFutureadvocate]

@GaraGambini What historians make a distinction between 'Ulstermen' and 'Irish' pre Plantantions? Peter Bereford Ellis and Kenneth Jackson certainly don't.

These 'Ibero-Celts' or Milesians came to dominate Ireland culturally and politically.They didn't wipe out previous tribes,they integrated.There was around 500 years of integration before any large migrations of people started to move into Scotland. Continued...

[GaraGambini]

@TheFutureadvocate

What you seem to ignore is that when the O’Neill’s arrived they pushed out the people already living in Ulster, most of these people went to Scotland. These same people returned with the Plantation centuries later. Quote “the Dál Riata clans, moved to and fro between Scotland and the north of Ireland long before the kingdoms of Scotland and Ireland came into existence.”

[TheFutureadvocate]

@GaraGambini The Dál Riata clans were Gaels.They were linquistically,culturally and genetically no different to anybody else on the island.

Look at St Columba.He was one of the main figures in the Dál Riata and he was born in Donegal and educated in Meath.He founded monasteries all over Ireland.There was a common cultural system at work from Cork all the way up to the Isle of Skye.

If your ancestors were part of a migration out of Ulster then it means you've got some Gael blood in your veins.

[TheFutureadvocate]

@GaraGambini Continued... The thing is,this argument is absolutely pointless unless you personally can prove that your ancient ancestors were part of a mass migration out of Ulster.

Ulster's greater bearing to Scotland over the rest of Ireland began in 1610.There is too much history and indeed mythology stacked against you to prove that it wasn't that way before the plantation.

[johnnyvst]

@TheFutureadvocate Ummm 1000 years ago, Well as far as surnames go check out these Sinn Fein people, makes me wonder what your on about lol. Adams as in Gerry is a common surname of English and Scottish origin. Anderson as in Martina is derived from the Greek name.McLellan as in Sandra is of Medieval Scottish origin.

[johnnyvst]

@TheFutureadvocate Butler as in Paul is an English occupational name. Leonard as in Billy is a common English language. Archibald as in Bernadette was introduced into England by followers of William the Conqueror after the Conquest of 1066. Milne as in Ian, it is of Anglo-Saxon origin. O I could go on and on, CLARKE, BAILIE, RAMSEY

[dkr56]

@johnnyvst What about the discrimination in the North against catholics? Your statement in contradictory

[Macgomery]

@Derrychrin Lowland Scots or not exactly the same as Highland Scots who are very closely related to the native peoples of Ireland. The Scoti were Gauls. The Lowland Scoots who make up most of the Scottish plantation settlments are very defferant than the native Irish. They are part Celtic. More closley related to the Welsh than Irish celts. Plus they have germanic blood from mixing heavley with the English. They would be closer with people of Somerset England than Irish. Scots are not all Scoti.

[GaraGambini]

@Derrychrin

The Irish Government brought in laws to discriminate against southern Protestants. in 2000 when the Orangemen of Dublin wanted to parade in their capital city they could not because of violent threats. Protestants are only tolerated in the Republic because they are out of sight.

Do you want me to name the 100s of Protestants forced from their homes by the IRA in the Republic from 1922 onwards?

[gerryarmstrong82]

Nonsense. Like johnnyvst says read a few history books.

"On the whole the Irish remained in occupation of the land."- Marianne Elliott.

"Ulster was then thinly inhabitated and provided ample room for colonisation.."- D.A. Chart.

Some "native Irish" (sic) in the more heavily populated areas were displaced.

However many Protestant immigrants settled on uninhabited, unexploited land. They often built up their farms out of semi-wilderness.

[gerryarmstrong82]

The Penal Laws have nothing to do with the plantation.

Most ordinary RCs weren't affected by them at all. Most of them were ignored at the time anyway.

[seonidh]

"Why did it HAVE to be conolised?"

Anglo-Norman land grabbers. Although the Irish were at it as well with the formation of the kingdom of Dal Riada and the expulsion of the Picts from their lands as well.

[ConCon75]

We arent English wea re lowland scots, who where just as exploited, we dont trust u after needless killings, so we should make our own state, and you will all be welcome there.

[Shropshireladdie]

@ConCon75

I dont understand what your saying , can you explain?

[Macgomery]

@aran31562 Both sides have truth in what they say.....it is just being able to find the middle ground then you will see that there was good , bad , and ugly on both sides because of pride . What he says is truth to suport his beliefs , but it is not the whole picyure . Some one else could allso speak truth to claim abuse of native Irish. Both sides have assholes . Just dont be anouther dumb asshole.

[Vearlsriver]

I am from the Southern U.S. and initially from down the Appalachians line (out of Virginia) in America...my family are Scots and I'm proud of that!

I am Johnston and I am Sandefur, thus the so-called Scots/Irish. Not Irish at all, but protestant Scots...

Learn your history southern people!

[lnm8]

thank fuck for that an american scots/irish protastant who does nt go round waving a tricolour

[Vearlsriver]

What the hell did you mean by that? I was only speaking in historical terms.

I do not practice any faith/religion.

Thankfully.

[Vearlsriver]

Nor do I wrap myself in any tricoulor...

I live in "Big Orange" Country in the state of Eastern Tennessee.

Fuck you, for your rudeness an crudeness, which was uncalled for...you

limey bastard,,, How does that feel?) Not so good, eh?

e

[Vearlsriver]

The Brits encouraged the lowland Scots to go there...they did and could not prosper any better there...so they migrated away for the future of thier children to America. Many migrated down the Pennsylvania line in America. What brave souls they were.

[Docombs]

Fantastic video!

[CarltheStampede]

Excellent video

[hgdjhjdfjg]

a majority of the ulster-british settled there as dissenters long after the initial plantation. many natives were murdered off by england before the union with the scottish crown, just as scottish presbyterians were murdered by irish catholic royalists during the same century. thousands were thus driven to ulster by the irish themselves for the crime of being republicans. those butchers deserve as much censure as the royal monsters who massacred the ulster irish.

[Warriorking1963]

WOW! An awesome video. Bet the Shinners won't like it though, sort of makes a mockery of the lies they like to tell.