James Burke : Connections, Episode 3, "Distant Voices", 2 of 5 (CC)

[mintchocolatebear]

I'd love to see the 21st Century get "Burke'd" by a future historian, to see the chain of events from 1995 to 2095, and what today's inventions and decisions lead to.

And as I watch the Connections series, it reminds me of the 'Dune' Saga by Frank Herbert. I believe that Herbert and Burke were on the same track when it came to views on History and Change. That History and Change are always moving, always taking unexpected turns, and always one step ahead of where we think they will/should go.

[Kurtlane]

" A generation after Agincourt they couldn't find enough archers..."

Actually, within a generation after Agincourt was the bloodiest part of 100-year-war, with Siege of Orleans and Joan of Arc and all. Turks captured Salonica, then Wallachia, defeated united armies of Poland and Hungary at Battle of Varna. Etc., etc.

Come on, Euriope was not peaceful at that time.

[leananshae]

Mr. Burke is plowing that field wearing a polyester leisure suit! Disco Farmer! lol

[Funbandza]

[Dramatic music]

[ryoushii]

Weapons like the longbow, when one side has them and the other doesn't, and also doesn't take into account the impact of such weapons, death tolls like 400 vs. 10,000 is quite possible. For example, in the 1866 Austro-Prussian, the Prussians, armed with breach loading bolt action rifles and metal cartridges and using open attack formations, killed 4-5 Austrians - who stilled used muzzle loading rifles and battalion shock formations like Napoleonic armies - for every Prussian killed.

[alpha18412]

7:42. I can tell that horse is proud he works twice as hard as an ox.

[alpha18412]

Bily from Roger Water's 'Radio KAOS': I am from the valleys, Wales...

[Grak70]

I was under the impression that the terrain at Agincourt was a far greater factor in the French defeat than longbows. Yes, they were more powerful, but the main problem was a combination of wounded horses, tight formations in what was essentially a funnel o' death, and mud mud mud everywhere.

The longbow would have changed battlefield tactics sooner or later, but Agincourt was shooting fish in a barrel once D'Albret faceplanted.

I guess it still all works out for Burke's chain of events. :-)

[JamesBurkeWeb]

I couldn't tell you. Wasn't there.

The Shakespearean version would have you believe the first version (and of course the revelation of one's inner courage and strength that can only come into being following an inspiring speech).

But most historians, as far as I know, attribute it to the longbow. It didn't require much accuracy either in this case, since as you say, the place would've been jam packed with French Knights on horseback. Knock out a few in front and the rest fall in succession.

[OakeshottXVI]

@JamesBurkeWeb You should update your library. The longbow was not Welsh, a secret (the French had seen it many times before) nor nearly so important as weather and terrain in the victory at Agincourt. It was also not much of a knight-killer, as it could not pierce contemporary armour effectively, though it did kill some by slaying their horses, as mentioned. Read Strickland and Hardy's excellent "The Great Warbow". Juliet Barker's "Agincourt" is quite decent and very accessible.

[jrkepler]

@JamesBurkeWeb If the longbows could puncture the french armor in 1415, how come they couldn't puncture scottish armor in 1421 at the battle of the Bauge?

[SteveRessel]

@Grak70 It was a combination of elements: tactics, terrain, weapons, etc. However, if both sides were just guys on horses with swords, this would have been a wall of men crammed into a narrowing. The longbow was that one thing that allowed the Brits to stand back and slaughter while the French ignorantly went berserk and rushed into death trap. No longbow, no such event. It was the longbow.

[ryoushii]

@Grak70 It was both. Henry picked terrain that made the best use of his archers -funneling the French into a nice tight target, and offered the protection archers needed from charging knights - mud and sludge for the knights to get stuck in and to slip in.

[eveningtsar]

@Grak70

I heard similar: that English arrowheads were actually not much good against French armour, but the French were so bottlenecked and stuck in the mud (weighed down by all that armour), they were basically sitting ducks.

[Bergertim]

@Grak70 The main factor was the difference in the rate of fire between the longbow and the crossbow, which takes much longer to reload. An English archer could fire ten arrows to the French crossbowman's one.

[ScottfromTexas]

Wow....wow...wow. Some of these comments and observations Burke makes are monumental. I assume you all have read Orwell's 1984.  What Burke says off hand about prosperity and war-mindset is profound. Orwell also touches on a concept that I could call scarcity management. Very deep. Look around - what are you seeing now?

[JamesBurkeWeb]

Absolutely. It's very difficult to engender a "war-mindset" in the midst of prosperity.

However, strangely enough (because it doesn't follow logically from the above), it is also true that it is very *easy* to engender a war-mindset in the midst of depression.

The first is almost tautological and doesn't involve coercion or convincing anybody about anything; they can see with their own eyes that things are going well.

The second is a kind of "promise" or "selling of hope" like a stock option

[ricsibacsi1956]

So how do you explain the US obsession with wars now,and its apparent willingness of the population to go along with these wars for Americas new century?

Effective propoganda?naivity? or arrogance?

Look at todays obsession with picking a war on Iran-Cuo Bono?

Fantastic series,thanks,

[JamesBurkeWeb]

Perhaps the US is not in the midst of prosperity. That would be one possible reason.

Do you feel prosperous? Is life one great big long shin-ding, eating out all the time, lots of money to spare, no debts to pay off, secure and fun job?

If so, I wouldn't expect you to be anxiously waiting for that *golden opportunity* to go running off and get yourself killed in battle.

No?

- JBW

[ricsibacsi1956]

Nicely put!

I measure prosperity not by my ability to eat out or have lots of money-but by my physical and mental health,and i am certainly free of debts ,that greatest burden around most peoples necks.

Great series

[breathless46]

Yikes... war is brutal. I lean towards non-violence. In my personal experience... I have found using comunication and diplomacy to avoid conflict, but my respect goes out to any being that puts their life on the line in the face of losing their live, limb, or sanity as a soldier.

[daddyofjames]

'Bloody hard work'..That would be edited out now in our 'compliance' age.

[JamesBurkeWeb]

Haha, well except in the US "bloody" isn't considered to be a vulgarity. Why? Not sure... probably because that's what the British say and the British are "cultured" ;)

- JBW

[hultonclint]

James Burke behind a plow is happy as a pig in shit.

[JamesBurkeWeb]

Haha... I know! He's lovin' it.

[samandal007]

putting horseshoes on and off must hurt the horse.

[JamesBurkeWeb]

Nope. Horse shoeing, when done correctly of course (meaning not driving the nails down into the underlying soft tissue) cases the horse no pain whatsoever since there are no pain receptors on the hoof itself.

In Steven Price's manual "The Whole Horse Catalog - Fireside 1998 ISBN 0-684-83995-4" the process is described as "analogous to a manicure on a human fingernail".

- JBW

[Drumspiracy]

"they were too full of beans..." Great line.

[Rhubba]

It's Zaphod Beeblebrox as Henry V

[JamesBurkeWeb]

Man... that guy just seems to show up *everywhere*! ;)

- JBW

[akatsuki5]

1:00 awesome lines, the bard at work