Longstreet @1.04 mentions Chapultepec where he was badly wounded and where Pickett was first on the ramparts carrying regiment flag handed to him by Longstreet. Lee,Armistead,Hooker,Grant,Beauregard, McClellan and probably others were also there under Winfield Scott.
This drunk goes on and one, the men drink and the bar tab gets ever higher. We are prepared for some of us to get drunk, but we are never prepared for all of us. Therein lies the great trap. When you drink you must hold nothing back, you must commit yourseff totally, we are adrift here in a sea of booze, and ahh want it to end. Ahh want this to be the final bottle.
As they say around the campfire: "Jeeemm, drinkin' has won great trap. To be a good drunk you muss love to drink. To be a good bartender you muss be willin' ta serve the drink you love. We do not fear our own ossification, you and ah, but at closing time we are never prepared for so many drunks, we do expect the occasional.....emptystooool, the salute to drunken comrades. That is why there are so few leaders of good drunks, although there are many good drunken men.
Thank you for posting - We were of Hancock's 2nd Corps and with the 4th and 8th Ohio were the Gibralter brigade. We were pulled off the wall with the 4th to go and bail out Howard (again) and save Rickett's batteries on Cemetery Ridge.
@1967mustanggta Shelby addmitted in an interview given just before he died that he made it up. The census report of Adams county in 1860 listed ZERO cobblers or shoe factories in the entire county. ZERO.
@pvtvice In his book "Gettysburg" Stephen Sears explicitly offers that Henry Heth heard that there may have been upwards of 8,000 pair of shoes in Gettysburg (there are shoes in my town too, doesn't mean they were made there) and that he was anxious to commandere them, hence his 8-mile expedition from Cashtown. He even asked A.P. Hill on the night of June 30, after Pettirgrew reported yankee troops there if he could go back to Gettysburg in the am and get those shoes. Just saying.
As far as I know, my source is Sid Meier's Gettysburg. There were rumored to be a few thousand pair of shoes in a warehouse there. So Heth conferred with A.P. Hill who let him go ahead getting those shoes. Also the intelligence on the Confederate side were bad due to Lee letting JEB Stuart ride off on a heroic though futile cavalry-raid.
@Beaviz81 I think we're actually on the same page and I didn't realize it. The key here is "rumored" which you are 100% correct. To be honest, I never did confirm that they were actually there or not so your post is spot on. The Confederate army (from II Corps) had already moved through Gettysburg earlier in the campaign so maybe someone there heard something. Who knows. I am glad too that you say Lee let Stuart go on his ride. Staurt is often scape-goated but Lee approved his adventures.
Not only that, the manual from that game, long gone, due to the glue dissolving the pages, actually say that Lee encouraged the ride. The phrase was somewhat like this: Lee and Stuart were discussing what route Stuart's cavalry should take, and Stuart proposed two alternatives, one much closer to the main body of the army. And another one cutting off the escape-route to Baltimore. Lee suggested that the most dashing cavalry-commander in the war should take the latter.
@Beaviz81 Where Stuart DOES get blame I think is his planning was based on the assumption that the Union army was widely spread out and a large force of cavalry could slip through gaps. But they were much more concentrated forcing Stuart to shift his break-through attempts farther away from the line of march and delaying his plans from square one. He should have turned back and rejoined the ANV but instead stubbornly pushed on--probably as a result of wounded pride from Brandy Station.
Note that his first suggestion was to be closer to the main army. The first suggestion usually tends to be the favored one. Lee probably made a facial expression saying he disapproved, so I think Stuart on his foot suggested the second solution. That one is pure speculation, also the Lost Cause-cause want to portray Lee as perfect, not as the overly aggressive general he really was. Of course my theory is only from personal experience with bosses.
@Beaviz81 Lee had the highest casualty rates (% lost, not total numbers since his rolls were smaller of course) than any general in command of an army, North or South, including Grant. Lee was quite profligate with his men's lives but whereas Grant could afford to be Lee could not. To have attacked Malvern Hill, stood out-number 2 to 1 at Antietam with the Potomac at his back and continue to fight at Gettysburg after day 1 were three very irresponsible and quite costly/bloody mistakes.
Lee for me was a very aggressive general of the Civil War-era. It should be noted that had Lee been on the Union side he would have finished the war either early on or gotten entangled with a bitter trenchy-like fight with Joe Johnson (who had a style of command more suited to the Confederates). JJ was all defensive, actually ahead of his time.
@Beaviz81 Same can be said for Grant. Grant I think was the most brillian general of the war in that he got that this was a new era and modern war was upon us. He knew exactly how to beat Lee and did so within 11 months of taking the field against him. The Johnston v. Sherman battles before Atlanta were great theatre, like two equally matched and skilled proze fighters dancing around each other unable to land a killing blow. Johnston was wonderful...as was Sherman.
Grant was more pragmatic than Lee. Many hail him as the first great modern general, and Lee as the last great general of the Napoleonic age.
JJ often put up positions which Sherman just avoided. JJ was so supreme as a defensive general so that a great general like Sherman didn't foolishly assault his defenses. Instead he concentrated on circumventing the defenses of JJ. Which he did. If I admonish JJ of anything, then it's his failure to use the cavalry.
@Beaviz81 It says a lot that JJ was a pall-bearer in Sherman's funeral. Supposedly out or respect JJ refused to don his hat even though it was a blistery wet and cold day. "If Sherman were in my place, he'd do the same." He died of pneumonia two weeks later or thereabouts. If true I think it is a telling illustration of the powers of reconciliation that mutual respect among former foes can foster.
Double that amount of time. I'm not a specialist, but the incidents can be unrelated. People have a nasty tendency to link famous deaths together. Most people live for themselves, but I suspect that's a part of America as the second and third president died within hours of each other on a July 4th.
@Beaviz81 Could be four...did it from memory. The point being that two bitter enemies can still respect each other after the shooting is over. Like in WW2 when USAAF ace Chuck Yeager and Luftwaffe Ace Gunther Rall became dear friends and did lectures together, etc.
I think reporters like to play up that part a little too much. Especially Americans. It's in the blood, starting with the friendship of Thomas Jefferson and John Adams.
@Shafeone Sorry, look it up. Shelby Foote said he just made it up. "Historians" borrow facts from each other all the time. Foote wrote it, Sears repeated it. Again, look up Adams County Business in 1863. There were no shoe mfg. shops. None. Made up "fact". I don't ever recall the conversations you cite in anything I've ever read about the battle.
@pvtvice You seem to confuse rumor with fact. The Confederates believed that there were 8,000 pair of shoes at Gettysburg. Heth in his own after battle report offered that his expedition on June 30 was to get shoes (that story was around before Foote was born). It doesn't mean the shoes were there. Rebs were in enemy territory with no recon. You seem obsessed with whether the shoes really were there. It doesn't matter. The Rebs thought they were there and that's what dictated their action.
@dragchute86 Lee referred to them as the enemy quite a lot actually. "The enemy is there and I'm going to strike them", "If we can defeat or drive the armies of the enemy from the field we shall have peace" Lee to Ewell about Stuart "I have instructed him to guard your flank and keep you appraised of the movements of the enemy." Whatever sentiments he may have felt for his former comrades they were in armed opposition to him, Lee was not naive.
Longstreet @1.04 mentions Chapultepec where he was badly wounded and where Pickett was first on the ramparts carrying regiment flag handed to him by Longstreet. Lee,Armistead,Hooker,Grant,Beauregard, McClellan and probably others were also there under Winfield Scott.
1oldgit 3 weeks ago
Regardless of what side he fought for, Robert E. Lee was a true gentleman, and an amazing military commander.
TheRealChewbaccaBC 1 month ago
Can someone tell me from witch movie this scene is from ...Please , course thats a film i gotta see ....A danish rebell :-)
Holgerdanske12 5 months ago
@Holgerdanske12 The movie is Gettysburg. Get the Directors Cut version of both this and Gods and Generals. You'll not be disappointed.
The11BJoe 5 months ago
@The11BJoe
Thanks i have ordered it so now i have to wait and see :-) but again thanks for your time .
Holgerdanske12 4 months ago
@Holgerdanske12 Anytime.
The11BJoe 4 months ago
Oh, also, thanks for posting this, well done.
pvtvice 6 months ago
This drunk goes on and one, the men drink and the bar tab gets ever higher. We are prepared for some of us to get drunk, but we are never prepared for all of us. Therein lies the great trap. When you drink you must hold nothing back, you must commit yourseff totally, we are adrift here in a sea of booze, and ahh want it to end. Ahh want this to be the final bottle.
pvtvice 6 months ago 2
As they say around the campfire: "Jeeemm, drinkin' has won great trap. To be a good drunk you muss love to drink. To be a good bartender you muss be willin' ta serve the drink you love. We do not fear our own ossification, you and ah, but at closing time we are never prepared for so many drunks, we do expect the occasional.....emptystooool, the salute to drunken comrades. That is why there are so few leaders of good drunks, although there are many good drunken men.
pvtvice 6 months ago
The fight song for the 14th Indiana Lions -
Thank you for posting - We were of Hancock's 2nd Corps and with the 4th and 8th Ohio were the Gibralter brigade. We were pulled off the wall with the 4th to go and bail out Howard (again) and save Rickett's batteries on Cemetery Ridge.
Today we sponsor and coach youth football.
1967mustanggta 8 months ago
Not once did Lee call them "the enemy". He always referred to them as "those people".
dragchute86 1 year ago 10
@dragchute86 Well we assume that is true - Shelby Foote said it and its hard to argue with him
1967mustanggta 8 months ago
@1967mustanggta Shelby addmitted in an interview given just before he died that he made it up. The census report of Adams county in 1860 listed ZERO cobblers or shoe factories in the entire county. ZERO.
pvtvice 6 months ago
@pvtvice In his book "Gettysburg" Stephen Sears explicitly offers that Henry Heth heard that there may have been upwards of 8,000 pair of shoes in Gettysburg (there are shoes in my town too, doesn't mean they were made there) and that he was anxious to commandere them, hence his 8-mile expedition from Cashtown. He even asked A.P. Hill on the night of June 30, after Pettirgrew reported yankee troops there if he could go back to Gettysburg in the am and get those shoes. Just saying.
Shafeone 4 months ago
@Shafeone
As far as I know, my source is Sid Meier's Gettysburg. There were rumored to be a few thousand pair of shoes in a warehouse there. So Heth conferred with A.P. Hill who let him go ahead getting those shoes. Also the intelligence on the Confederate side were bad due to Lee letting JEB Stuart ride off on a heroic though futile cavalry-raid.
Beaviz81 3 months ago
@Beaviz81 I think we're actually on the same page and I didn't realize it. The key here is "rumored" which you are 100% correct. To be honest, I never did confirm that they were actually there or not so your post is spot on. The Confederate army (from II Corps) had already moved through Gettysburg earlier in the campaign so maybe someone there heard something. Who knows. I am glad too that you say Lee let Stuart go on his ride. Staurt is often scape-goated but Lee approved his adventures.
Shafeone 3 months ago
@Shafeone
Not only that, the manual from that game, long gone, due to the glue dissolving the pages, actually say that Lee encouraged the ride. The phrase was somewhat like this: Lee and Stuart were discussing what route Stuart's cavalry should take, and Stuart proposed two alternatives, one much closer to the main body of the army. And another one cutting off the escape-route to Baltimore. Lee suggested that the most dashing cavalry-commander in the war should take the latter.
Beaviz81 3 months ago
@Beaviz81 Where Stuart DOES get blame I think is his planning was based on the assumption that the Union army was widely spread out and a large force of cavalry could slip through gaps. But they were much more concentrated forcing Stuart to shift his break-through attempts farther away from the line of march and delaying his plans from square one. He should have turned back and rejoined the ANV but instead stubbornly pushed on--probably as a result of wounded pride from Brandy Station.
Shafeone 3 months ago
@Shafeone
Note that his first suggestion was to be closer to the main army. The first suggestion usually tends to be the favored one. Lee probably made a facial expression saying he disapproved, so I think Stuart on his foot suggested the second solution. That one is pure speculation, also the Lost Cause-cause want to portray Lee as perfect, not as the overly aggressive general he really was. Of course my theory is only from personal experience with bosses.
Beaviz81 3 months ago
@Beaviz81 Lee had the highest casualty rates (% lost, not total numbers since his rolls were smaller of course) than any general in command of an army, North or South, including Grant. Lee was quite profligate with his men's lives but whereas Grant could afford to be Lee could not. To have attacked Malvern Hill, stood out-number 2 to 1 at Antietam with the Potomac at his back and continue to fight at Gettysburg after day 1 were three very irresponsible and quite costly/bloody mistakes.
Shafeone 3 months ago
@Shafeone
Lee for me was a very aggressive general of the Civil War-era. It should be noted that had Lee been on the Union side he would have finished the war either early on or gotten entangled with a bitter trenchy-like fight with Joe Johnson (who had a style of command more suited to the Confederates). JJ was all defensive, actually ahead of his time.
Beaviz81 3 months ago
@Beaviz81 Same can be said for Grant. Grant I think was the most brillian general of the war in that he got that this was a new era and modern war was upon us. He knew exactly how to beat Lee and did so within 11 months of taking the field against him. The Johnston v. Sherman battles before Atlanta were great theatre, like two equally matched and skilled proze fighters dancing around each other unable to land a killing blow. Johnston was wonderful...as was Sherman.
Shafeone 3 months ago
@Shafeone
Grant was more pragmatic than Lee. Many hail him as the first great modern general, and Lee as the last great general of the Napoleonic age.
JJ often put up positions which Sherman just avoided. JJ was so supreme as a defensive general so that a great general like Sherman didn't foolishly assault his defenses. Instead he concentrated on circumventing the defenses of JJ. Which he did. If I admonish JJ of anything, then it's his failure to use the cavalry.
Beaviz81 3 months ago
@Beaviz81 It says a lot that JJ was a pall-bearer in Sherman's funeral. Supposedly out or respect JJ refused to don his hat even though it was a blistery wet and cold day. "If Sherman were in my place, he'd do the same." He died of pneumonia two weeks later or thereabouts. If true I think it is a telling illustration of the powers of reconciliation that mutual respect among former foes can foster.
Shafeone 2 months ago
@Shafeone
Double that amount of time. I'm not a specialist, but the incidents can be unrelated. People have a nasty tendency to link famous deaths together. Most people live for themselves, but I suspect that's a part of America as the second and third president died within hours of each other on a July 4th.
Beaviz81 2 months ago
@Beaviz81 Could be four...did it from memory. The point being that two bitter enemies can still respect each other after the shooting is over. Like in WW2 when USAAF ace Chuck Yeager and Luftwaffe Ace Gunther Rall became dear friends and did lectures together, etc.
Shafeone 2 months ago
@Shafeone
I think reporters like to play up that part a little too much. Especially Americans. It's in the blood, starting with the friendship of Thomas Jefferson and John Adams.
Beaviz81 2 months ago
@Shafeone Sorry, look it up. Shelby Foote said he just made it up. "Historians" borrow facts from each other all the time. Foote wrote it, Sears repeated it. Again, look up Adams County Business in 1863. There were no shoe mfg. shops. None. Made up "fact". I don't ever recall the conversations you cite in anything I've ever read about the battle.
pvtvice 3 months ago
@pvtvice You seem to confuse rumor with fact. The Confederates believed that there were 8,000 pair of shoes at Gettysburg. Heth in his own after battle report offered that his expedition on June 30 was to get shoes (that story was around before Foote was born). It doesn't mean the shoes were there. Rebs were in enemy territory with no recon. You seem obsessed with whether the shoes really were there. It doesn't matter. The Rebs thought they were there and that's what dictated their action.
Shafeone 3 months ago
@dragchute86 Lee referred to them as the enemy quite a lot actually. "The enemy is there and I'm going to strike them", "If we can defeat or drive the armies of the enemy from the field we shall have peace" Lee to Ewell about Stuart "I have instructed him to guard your flank and keep you appraised of the movements of the enemy." Whatever sentiments he may have felt for his former comrades they were in armed opposition to him, Lee was not naive.
TigerRifle1 3 months ago 2
I love this scene! :D Thank you :)
Butternut731863 1 year ago 2
Comment removed
RodneyAHampton 1 year ago 2
fucking thank you somebody posted the minstrel boy scene 5-5 stars for that alone
hartshornguy 1 year ago 3
@hartshornguy Well you're welcome. But what's so important in that specific scene?
Zappiss 1 year ago 2
@Zappiss
alot of catholic and irish brigade pride my friend
hartshornguy 1 year ago 8
@hartshornguy Ah, well, glad I could help. :)
Zappiss 1 year ago 5
@hartshornguy totally agree
darklord1565 4 months ago