@anonynaw I think it's safe to say that he does realise that. Have a look at the Hitchens/Olasky debate (linking doesn't work for some reason) which he wraps up by saying: "Which of us has the bluest eyes and is the most sexually attractive? Which of us has the real charisma here? I'm just asking!" :D
I am continually amazed that comments stay open on atheist-positive posts, and comments tend to be disabled on atheist-negative or religion-positive posts. I think that the former types should be recognized for keeping their comments open. Thanks to the non-believer types for practicing your more open-minded nature in this often-unrecognized trait.
@sethmusic After that article by Shermer, it makes me wonder ... if Hitchens ever gave a speech when he was completely sober, would we recognize him? :-)
Christopher Hitchens is one of those people that even if you disagree you appreciate the care and logic in the way he gives his arguements. Of course I agree with everything he says here :)
@stcolreplover: I can here the monkey bashing the cymbals together in your head as you try to wrap your head around the concept of thinking for yourself.
@stcolreplover That's true, but not if you subscribe to an organized religion instead of believing in a non specific higher power or a deist god
You have a god. In order to get to heaven you have to do everything he says. Right down to what food you can eat, who you can have sex with and in what position, how you should spend your sunday, how many times a day you should pray etc I could go on. You can think for yourself, if you choose to, but you first have to emancipate yourself from religion.
F- Concerning freedom: For many of us our prison is inside of us. This is true for me also, and that is why I am unable to make use of the freedom I actually have.
genius, Hitchens is doing good, important work, warning people of the evils of people in religious cults taking advantage of the innocent and desperate.
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so when i die, my only hope in my whole existence is to die by doing something impossible , and die in a black hole? christopher hickens seems ignorant to the fact at the whole appeal of religion. hope for something more. i have a question which i hope won't be answered to rudely, why do athetists have to promote athetism?
obviously, because there are real world ramifications when people are deluded and believe things that are so clearly false. See: 9/11. See also: Ayaan Hirsi Ali. Once we dispel the myth of Christianity, Islam and the other falsities that pervade otherwise sound minds, we can prevent people from acting on these perversions of morality.
really? Do you really think that if we stop religion. that suddenly all violence and war is going to stop. People simply use religion as a tool to have power over people. But there are other ways to control people. As anything in this religion causes good, but it can also cause great evil.
That's a clear strawman--mpwer20 never equivocated that revealing the falsifiability of theology would completely subdue or prevent violence, but it's certainly a good start. To some, theology, as capricious, shoddy, and inherent as it is, is the only possible conclusion to them. These people are beyond reasoning with--for there are some that would go so far as to strap bombs upon themselves, and attempt to kill you while chanting a little prayer before they died.
I think that is a fair question. I am an ex-christian and discovering that my faith was at best a joke was quite traumatizing. Most outspoken atheists tend to be ex-believers, who feel duped, conned, cheated when they discover how ridiculous, irrational and fundamentally immoral christian faith is at the core of its teachings. Therefore for many it becomes personal. And it is difficult to accept that some people are forever trapped in this nonsense.
firstly i have to wonder why i have negative responses, because i'm asking questions, or i'm not a flaming athetist.
and AndreaZ64, what is the fundamentaly immoral christian faith is at the core of its teachings. and what are your morals. My understanding is that athetist morals is all relative. Which is probably my biggest problem with agreeing with it. That means there are no absolutes, nothing is trully good. can someone possibly explain this.
You asked a fair question and I gave you an honest answer. You do not have to agree of course. I lost my faith, you did not, so obviously you have a different view on this.
Morality is always a personal judgment. Isn't that obvious? Some feel killing for your country is good, others feel it is evil. Sometimes humans agree, sometimes they do not.
So morals by their nature must be relative and personal in the first place.
Assuming you accept the bible as the word of god, I do not understand why the relativity of morals at a certain level should frighten you. When your god commits murder, asks for human sacrifice, condones slavery, commits mass murder and orders it etc. you as a submissive believer have to accept it all as being good, because your faith orders you to think of your god as a omni-benevolent being.
Precisely. Such a god who commands us to not commit the crimes in which it does throughout the Bible on several well-documented occasions, is a hypocritical god. You can't project rules for your followers to abide by and expect that you're exempt from them on account of your professed greatness. When the barbarous acts are brought into light towards the devout adherents of Christianity, Christians either outright disregard them, or find some alternative 'explanation' for them.
As an ex-christian on the other hand I have come to realize that the hebrew wargod is not alt all omni-benevolent. In my view he is just as evil as other hatemongers. So morals are indeed relative.
But if a society agrees on certain morals and creates laws to uphold them then we are taught to uphold them, we are educated, socialized etc from a very young age to conform. We internalize these morals.
But there is always strife in any society about morals. This strife is the process by which we continuously evaluate the morals of our society.
Morality is the product of a society, of a group of beings. Morality is not just out there. We create it. And therefore it is relative. But that does not make it less important.
The evil I see at the heart of christian faith is that it always prefers obedience to the godly master above true personal moral judgement. Christianity does not really want freedom but it says it does and lies about it in creating a fake and corrupt doctrine about the free will. With the help of that false doctrine it is able to put all the blame on creation in stead of the creator itself. This is another corruption.
A word like 'sin' does not concern itself with good and evil. Christians have been duped in believing it does, but in truth 'sin' is about obedience. Not obeing is a sin. And obeing is good. If god orders you to kill homosexual men then killing is good. Refusing to kill these men is a sin. So the concept of 'sin' is an instrument for submission, not for being moral.
i understand, i too find it hard to explain my questions, or fit them all in. Question, what if another society's morals are well, wrong, say believe in rape and murder are perfectly fine. If everything's relative, is that okay? are those good morals? The Bible, which most people are too stupid to realize, is not to be taken literally, it's a book composed of various books with different styles. another question, what is freedom to you?
You and I, and our societies would not approve of those morals. And we always believe our morals to be universally true. But on the other hand our modern societies think it is okay to commit murder in the service of our country, to use the abysmal clusterbomb weapons, to support totalitarian states, to use weapons of mass destruction, to kill certain prisoners, to torture prisoners. etc.
B- So whether such morals are good always depends on who is asking, on who is judging. And that is because morals are relative. You would like to hear an absolute answer, but there are no absolutes in the construct that is human morality. Even IF all of mankind would agree on everything, which we do not, it would still be relative. We know we do not all have the same moral views. It is much more complicated than many would like.
C- Although I do not believe in moral absolutes, this does not mean I am immoral or amoral. On the contrary, I live by a set of moral rules based on modern judeo/christian and buddhist views. And I constantly judge the actions of myself and others. I do not believe everything is okay. But what I consider to be right or wrong is always a personal judgment. I can only hope others to agree with me. That is how we negotiate the morality of a society.
D- "The Bible, (...), is not to be taken literally"
Says who? That is just your opinion. It happens to be mine too, but too many people the bible is the absolute true word of a supernatural magical entity. They think they derive their morals from it. And that is worrying to me considering the evil, primitive, depraved and immoral nature of this entity by my standards. The fact that obedience and submission are more important than being moral is dangerous.
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see this is the part that i find confusing, if everything is relative and you can only hope to that others agree with you. I don't understand how you can argue against other peoples morals. What i'm getting from the weapons of mass destruction, murdering in the name of war, is that you can't judge other socities moral structure, than how can you judge other peoples individual morals. what makes your morals so much superior to someone elses.
A- I really understand your confusion stcolreplover, because I just like you believed in moral absolutism. I can argue against other peoples morals out of my personal conviction that mine are better. And I always must be prepared to explain and defend my personal views with rationality and logic. Never can I use a fundamentally immoral cop out like "my invisible magical being told me so".
We can judge others on the basis of relative morals. We do so all the time. But it is very complicated.
B- We tend to believe in the simple black and white that is taught to us by some uneducated primitive religions, or the disgusting misleading morality crap produced by hollywood that is flooding our senses day by day. We love simplicity. But morals and values never are simple. Even the good bible god commits mass murder all the time and his major solution to all kinds of problems is kill, kill, kill. So, apparently even he is confused about the subject.
With morality it is just like any other human opinions. We can feel strongly about it, and we do not all agree on certain moral subjects. But because we are social beings, and because we have our evolved humanity in common, we have a lot of morals in common too. We need each other. And it is there that we find each other. But it is never a given absolute. We must think and judge for ourselves and weigh the options.
i don't get that argument that the hebrew god is somehow a hypocrite. the disasters and bloody battles in the old testament is just the recorded history of a small people that avoided amalgamation for millennia through intensive development of their language. if not for their god, they would not have bothered. however they recorded history not unlike we; disasters and bloody massacres simply get the most coverage, and the sheer number of them is the mark of any people who have survived.
Otzmatron apparently you have not read my exchange with stcolreplover.
I am not a believer at all. I lost my faith more than 25 years ago and I am deeply disgusted by the mindless worshiping of invisible god beings.
I do not mind that you do not care for what I have to say. I do not care for people who refer to themselves in plural or pretend to speak for others. I only answered questions that were put to me.
C- What is freedom to me? You certainly ask difficult questions. I could answer with one of the many platitudes that circulate about the concept of freedom. I agree with many of them. But I also believe freedom is relative. It is a personal concept that depends upon personal perception. There are stories about buddhist monks who felt free in prison. And for others it is never enough. I myself do not demand much in this respect. I do not even use the freedom I already have.
Hitchens could not have said it more clearly. The natural world is so much more beautiful than a supernatural world. Dinosaurs are far more interesting than dragons. The majesties of the stars far exceed a pitiful burning bush. Looking into a microscope fills one with more awe than reading about the Resurrection. Studying giant octopi is far more exciting than reading about mermaids. Why do people feel the need to invent an imaginary heaven? This life is all we get; use it wisely.
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A giant octopus is not as awe inspiring as the creator of the universe !!!!! God created you, me and all living things. Thats a fact, something cannot come out of nothing !!!!
people who don't believe in theism don't think we came from nothing, you believe that we came from nothing, you believe that there was nothing then god made everything out of nothing. not us lol
your fuckin daff aren't ya?yoyu dont know shit about religious people except for bs propaganda by bs morons who did too many drugs to remember why they woke up that day
I personally believe that nothing was created, everything has always been , just not always in the arrangement of atoms that we see today. that everything is constantly changing. why does there have to be a being and a end ? is it not possible for just conversions of energy and matter ,we only see beings and ends in the forms of life and death. but to things that don't "live" such as a single atom there would only a conversion to energy .
just what i learned in 5th grade,one or group of cells that are capable of response to stimuli, reproduction, growth and development.but science and religion work off 2 totally different philosophy's. science is basically the study of the physical world by collecting data. Religion is a belief based on the lack of data "faith" as it were but also denying new data and the refusal to accept new credible data.science is always questioning everything and religion just accepts what they choose to.
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but in religious term you only speak of Christians/Mormons/catholics.
Also accepting what is rather than spending time stupidly questioning everything like a kid is realistic.
also what do you say about Buddhism and taoism and ect?
as i said religion and science should work together.Not overlapping each other because we don't need more people playing god as with the human genome project.
and the whole issue is science tries to overlap religion[but it cant] and Christianity does this also.
God made everything. Really ? what about the poodle, did god make that ? what about the banana, did god make that ? what about small mouth bass , did god make that too ? of coarse not. we know how those things were made and it wasn't willed into being by god. the facts are there. Try opening your eyes and look at the facts. not just turning your head at the evidence, we know we don't have all the answers but lets just agree on what we can see and what we do know, how about that for starters .
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without god there would be no person to create the next scientific advances to prove him wrong or try to be him by doing human genome or cloning research.god pushes progress on humanity
wow all atheists are dumb closeminded dicks eh? racist to eh? womanizing assholes ugh im done with you "non-religious"white people in america....all the same
Wow,you say I don't know anything about religious people and that my perception of them are wrong.And what are you doing to change that.I never said anything about race,You sir are the one that said something about another race and how you don't like them.I'm pretty sure that makes you the racist not me.if you make a statement like "all" of one group are one way ,that is pretty close minded.I would say most religious don't practice what they preach and are hypocritical.and you just proved it.
my page says i read the latin bible the older one...the quote means in nomine et filli et patris espiritrus sancti..i practice what i preach chaos and destruction and order from chaos. thats what the quote is about.the only way to save people is to rid them of a place a nation to whipe something from the face of existence seeing as many animals have been pushed to the bring of non existence the best place to start is america.also white is the name that white supremacists give them selves fun huh
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someone who deliberately maker their name BUST A SHITE should never be taken seriously.
Also its not for a reaction its only me saying what i bloody well please.
if they get emotional over this they should try hunting pedophiles or racists who imprison native Americans just because they fit the description[even though there was none].
like that great guy trinity who was walking out of his cousins house and was arrested and jailed and now has 40 years and was denied of Miranda rights.
As an amateur Paleontologist, I find chromatic and metallic dragons of fantasy far more interesting than Dinosaurs. Although I agree the from my profession of teaching Astrophysics at UC Berkeley, biased as it may be. The Cosmos is a thousand times superior than the world of genesis, paradise is a far-cry to the andromeda galaxy.
There's nothing more irritating than a religious person who insists that religion is necessary to interpret scientific discoveries about our world . "Oh, Genesis is just a metaphor," they say. Well what the hell is the metaphor? Genesis could effectively be watered down to God snapping his fingers. What's the metaphor? How does that silly little story add any extra beauty to the amazing story of the Big Bang, the violent formation of the Earth and the evolution of life?
@vulnerabledonkey Agreed. It is a mute point, as you probably already know. It is about evidence. Move the coversation forward....the opposite of the typical religious argument of absolutes. Their trick is to have most of the answers. Counter that by science. It is very simple yet the religious like to take it case by case, then generalize.
@HalfDeath13, unfortunately the way we run the world right now doesn't leave the quality of life solely into your sense of wisdom, other than that, I completely agree with you.
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Hitchens' career took a remarkable rise after becoming a cheerleader for Bush's bloody Iraq occupation. Everything he says here against the fraud of religion goes ten times for him in his support of W's highly profitable yet lame attempt at sleight of hand.
Hitchens doesn't wholeheartedly support everything Bush jr. has ever said or done, but rather has said that he is right on the main point; coexistence with totalitarian regimes is unacceptable. He can and does criticize Bush jr. for incompetence and his religious bullshit.
And rather than supporting Bush jr., he support the policy of US to abolish Hussein's regime that was approved by the congress during the first gulf war.
Okay... in one speech he says the director of "Greatest Story Ever Told" was John Huston, here William Wyler. It was George Stevens. Just because I'm a pedantic bastard.
Love the Hitch, one of my favorites... but could you please post the last minute or so? Without the whole thing, I feel like I have a wonderful truffle, and I threw it away and ate the wrapper :P
More terrifying than a fundamentalist like Bush being the leader of the free world? Who is quoted as saying he had a conversation with god before invading Iraq. Or a Theocracy such as Iran having nuclear weapons?
"More terrifying than a fundamentalist like Bush being the leader of the free world?"
The wonderful thing about the US constitution is that it doesn't MATTER that a "fundamentalist" like Bush is in office. Even if he had the inclination to abolish the teaching of evolution, criminalize abortions, bring back the witch-hunts, and force everyone to attend church on Sundays, he would be prevented from doing so by the system of checks and balances which is an integral part of the US government.
My God you are blinded by patriotism. I'm really not sure if you people actually realize how you look to the rest of the world when you are so incapable of introspection. I won't highlight the ridiculousness of your statement here - other than to say this is the same man who convinced congress to invade Iraq after "speaking to the man upstairs". You have Dover and its repeats - 'which hunts' politically on anyone not religious and doctors murdered who perform abortions. Don't kid yourself.
Then don't speak out of school "dink". I don't know what that is but if its anything like your last lot of drivel its not complimentary. Do yourself a favor and get an education on the subject matter - of which you clearly know nothing about. Wanker.
Thank you for your educated and insightful commentary. Your unique approach and articulate phrasing have given me an entirely new outlook on the matter! I only wish that other members of YouTube could be as helpful as you.
The Dover case was decided in favor of those who wanted to remove religious doctrine from the classroom. The doctors are not murdered by the government. I do know to which 'which hunts' (witch hunts?) you are referring, but I don't see how it rebuts c6gunner's statements about the US government either. The system of checks and balances works well, if quite slowly.
Please don't base your view of the entire US population on the incompetence of its current executive branch.
The Dover case is simply an example of the wider challenge of Creationists who intend on hijacking classrooms to further their cause. They are numerous. Doctors are murdered by fundamentalists of which you have a plethora - (who said anything about government?!). And the witch hunts (if you of read the threads) was a metaphor for those in office who do not swear allegiance to fairies and god. In other words the godless are be burned at the stake by the media (& sigh - don't take it literally)
The person to whom you replied, c6gunner, made statements about government. Actually, the first statement of his which did not involve government was the post in which you were called a "dink."
If your rebuttal had been written against a statement which defended the unfortunate abundance of religious fundamentalism in the US, I would have taken no issue. Although c6gunner's statements may have contained a bit too much zeal for my taste, they are defend a good system, and are by no means blind.
Thank you for making as much sense as the Bible. So are you saying you did take issue - or didn't? And thanks for the paraphrasing. What was the point of that exactly?
C6gunner made a comment beginning with "The wonderful thing about the US constitution is..."
And your reply was "My God you are blinded by patriotism...."
I took issue with the implication that the behavior of the current US executive branch is an indication of the quality of the US system of government as a whole. The point of the paraphrasing was to provide context for my comment.
You are welcome to guess anything you like about my religious affiliation.
Well once again you are making inferences and assertions which are just - wrong. Probably why I guessed you were a Christian. If the point of paraphrasing my statements is to 'take issue' or put it into context - get the context right. You have clearly followed some of the discussion yet totally misconstrued the sentiment. You wanna have a conversation please do so - but please don't come in on the arse end of a conversation, misrepresent my comments and then bleat about that falsity.
Once again? We have not been holding a weekly seminar.
If you feel that I have been contextually unfair, you can draw some comfort from the presence of your original comments in this forum, which, as of this message's arrival, will comprise 40 blurbs of 500 characters or less.
If I misinterpreted your statements, then that is my mistake. So far, I don't see how you can accuse me of taking a less conversational tone than you.
Bush didn't convince my government of anything, that's quite moronic. Howard did.
And I think if Bush "had a conversation with his father upstairs" prior to invading then his religion is enormously relevant. Don't be naive. That's like saying the Dali Lama's religion isn't relevant to him being a pacifist.
How is it 2/2 but cut off mid sentence? Is there a continuation?
shabido1 3 months ago 3
i really love listening to Hitchens speak. its like the purest silk is efortlessly flowing from his mouth.
gnulen 3 months ago
Awesome as always. Is the ending uploaded on another channel?
PawnBACM 6 months ago
Very eloquent speech. I hope Christopher Hitchens realizes how amusing he actually is, by simply speaking the truth.
anonynaw 7 months ago 2
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044orange044 6 months ago
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044orange044 6 months ago
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@anonynaw I think it's safe to say that he does realise that. Have a look at the Hitchens/Olasky debate (linking doesn't work for some reason) which he wraps up by saying: "Which of us has the bluest eyes and is the most sexually attractive? Which of us has the real charisma here? I'm just asking!" :D
044orange044 6 months ago
the one edit in this video comes mid sentence. epic editing fail.
playadominical 9 months ago
A homosexual, a paedophile and a priest walk into a bar. He orders a drink.
JesusSuckedGayPenis 1 year ago 17
@JesusSuckedGayPenis OMG, LOL!
Endymos 4 months ago
@JesusSuckedGayPenis I take offence to your joke... there is nothing wrong with being homosexual!
GalacticMuppet 4 months ago
@GalacticMuppet Oh I wholeheartedly agree there's nothing wrong with homosexuality, only the religious have a problem with it :D
JesusSuckedGayPenis 4 months ago
@GalacticMuppet Like your username BTW :D
JesusSuckedGayPenis 4 months ago
Gah! Fuck you AmazingMeetingVideos! Where's the rest!?
marredsun 1 year ago 11
Well, this certainly left me holding my cock.
MentalSentinel 1 year ago 10
I am continually amazed that comments stay open on atheist-positive posts, and comments tend to be disabled on atheist-negative or religion-positive posts. I think that the former types should be recognized for keeping their comments open. Thanks to the non-believer types for practicing your more open-minded nature in this often-unrecognized trait.
tnordloh 1 year ago 18
its hard watching his old debates and watching him cough.... it pains me everytime
111steven 1 year ago 7
@111steven same here. I alway thought that he had something but never imagined it was that bad..
reafdaw01 1 year ago
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@stcolreplover,
"Having faith and or believing in a Higher power does not mean you can't think for yourself"
No, but it takes the burden off you to think about things that really matter, such as reality.
AcquiredKnowledge 1 year ago
I served with Hitchens' daughter
flexicon1996 1 year ago 3
the best part about this speech.....he's shitfaced!.....thats like whooping religion with one arm tied behind your back!
sethmusic 1 year ago
@sethmusic After that article by Shermer, it makes me wonder ... if Hitchens ever gave a speech when he was completely sober, would we recognize him? :-)
trippedbreaker 1 year ago
Christopher Hitchens is one of those people that even if you disagree you appreciate the care and logic in the way he gives his arguements. Of course I agree with everything he says here :)
ColemanMulkerin 2 years ago 13
This is an EXCELLENT speech. Christopher Hitchens is indeed a great human being, truly "renessaince" man. We got the message.
SvrchovaneCechy 2 years ago 22
@stcolreplover: I can here the monkey bashing the cymbals together in your head as you try to wrap your head around the concept of thinking for yourself.
ClearVista 2 years ago 12
Having faith and or believing in a Higher power does not mean you can't think for yourself
stcolreplover 1 year ago
@stcolreplover That's true, but not if you subscribe to an organized religion instead of believing in a non specific higher power or a deist god
You have a god. In order to get to heaven you have to do everything he says. Right down to what food you can eat, who you can have sex with and in what position, how you should spend your sunday, how many times a day you should pray etc I could go on. You can think for yourself, if you choose to, but you first have to emancipate yourself from religion.
Averagegamer100 1 year ago
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@stcolreplover,
"Having faith and or believing in a Higher power does not mean you can't think for yourself"
No, but it takes the burden off you to think about things that really matter, such as reality.
AcquiredKnowledge 1 year ago
dean martin !!
nemesis76689 2 years ago
This man is a total inspiration!
goartworld 2 years ago 45
uah.. truly this is the son of God!
yRegal 2 years ago 11
F- Concerning freedom: For many of us our prison is inside of us. This is true for me also, and that is why I am unable to make use of the freedom I actually have.
AndreaZ64 2 years ago
genius, Hitchens is doing good, important work, warning people of the evils of people in religious cults taking advantage of the innocent and desperate.
aegisgfx 2 years ago
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so when i die, my only hope in my whole existence is to die by doing something impossible , and die in a black hole? christopher hickens seems ignorant to the fact at the whole appeal of religion. hope for something more. i have a question which i hope won't be answered to rudely, why do athetists have to promote athetism?
stcolreplover 2 years ago
obviously, because there are real world ramifications when people are deluded and believe things that are so clearly false. See: 9/11. See also: Ayaan Hirsi Ali. Once we dispel the myth of Christianity, Islam and the other falsities that pervade otherwise sound minds, we can prevent people from acting on these perversions of morality.
mpower20 2 years ago 2
really? Do you really think that if we stop religion. that suddenly all violence and war is going to stop. People simply use religion as a tool to have power over people. But there are other ways to control people. As anything in this religion causes good, but it can also cause great evil.
stcolreplover 2 years ago
@stcolreplover
--
That's a clear strawman--mpwer20 never equivocated that revealing the falsifiability of theology would completely subdue or prevent violence, but it's certainly a good start. To some, theology, as capricious, shoddy, and inherent as it is, is the only possible conclusion to them. These people are beyond reasoning with--for there are some that would go so far as to strap bombs upon themselves, and attempt to kill you while chanting a little prayer before they died.
Aizenx7 1 year ago
Because they can.
rudenoodle 2 years ago
"why do atheists have to promote atheism"
I think that is a fair question. I am an ex-christian and discovering that my faith was at best a joke was quite traumatizing. Most outspoken atheists tend to be ex-believers, who feel duped, conned, cheated when they discover how ridiculous, irrational and fundamentally immoral christian faith is at the core of its teachings. Therefore for many it becomes personal. And it is difficult to accept that some people are forever trapped in this nonsense.
AndreaZ64 2 years ago
firstly i have to wonder why i have negative responses, because i'm asking questions, or i'm not a flaming athetist.
and AndreaZ64, what is the fundamentaly immoral christian faith is at the core of its teachings. and what are your morals. My understanding is that athetist morals is all relative. Which is probably my biggest problem with agreeing with it. That means there are no absolutes, nothing is trully good. can someone possibly explain this.
stcolreplover 2 years ago
stcolreplover,
You asked a fair question and I gave you an honest answer. You do not have to agree of course. I lost my faith, you did not, so obviously you have a different view on this.
Morality is always a personal judgment. Isn't that obvious? Some feel killing for your country is good, others feel it is evil. Sometimes humans agree, sometimes they do not.
So morals by their nature must be relative and personal in the first place.
AndreaZ64 2 years ago
Assuming you accept the bible as the word of god, I do not understand why the relativity of morals at a certain level should frighten you. When your god commits murder, asks for human sacrifice, condones slavery, commits mass murder and orders it etc. you as a submissive believer have to accept it all as being good, because your faith orders you to think of your god as a omni-benevolent being.
AndreaZ64 2 years ago
you assume to much, i never claimed to be a theist
stcolreplover 2 years ago
@AndreaZ64
-
Precisely. Such a god who commands us to not commit the crimes in which it does throughout the Bible on several well-documented occasions, is a hypocritical god. You can't project rules for your followers to abide by and expect that you're exempt from them on account of your professed greatness. When the barbarous acts are brought into light towards the devout adherents of Christianity, Christians either outright disregard them, or find some alternative 'explanation' for them.
Aizenx7 1 year ago
As an ex-christian on the other hand I have come to realize that the hebrew wargod is not alt all omni-benevolent. In my view he is just as evil as other hatemongers. So morals are indeed relative.
But if a society agrees on certain morals and creates laws to uphold them then we are taught to uphold them, we are educated, socialized etc from a very young age to conform. We internalize these morals.
AndreaZ64 2 years ago
But there is always strife in any society about morals. This strife is the process by which we continuously evaluate the morals of our society.
Morality is the product of a society, of a group of beings. Morality is not just out there. We create it. And therefore it is relative. But that does not make it less important.
AndreaZ64 2 years ago
The evil I see at the heart of christian faith is that it always prefers obedience to the godly master above true personal moral judgement. Christianity does not really want freedom but it says it does and lies about it in creating a fake and corrupt doctrine about the free will. With the help of that false doctrine it is able to put all the blame on creation in stead of the creator itself. This is another corruption.
AndreaZ64 2 years ago
A word like 'sin' does not concern itself with good and evil. Christians have been duped in believing it does, but in truth 'sin' is about obedience. Not obeing is a sin. And obeing is good. If god orders you to kill homosexual men then killing is good. Refusing to kill these men is a sin. So the concept of 'sin' is an instrument for submission, not for being moral.
You asked for it stcolreplover :)
There is much to explain, but so little room.
AndreaZ64 2 years ago
i understand, i too find it hard to explain my questions, or fit them all in. Question, what if another society's morals are well, wrong, say believe in rape and murder are perfectly fine. If everything's relative, is that okay? are those good morals? The Bible, which most people are too stupid to realize, is not to be taken literally, it's a book composed of various books with different styles. another question, what is freedom to you?
stcolreplover 2 years ago
A- You ask if those are those good morals.
You and I, and our societies would not approve of those morals. And we always believe our morals to be universally true. But on the other hand our modern societies think it is okay to commit murder in the service of our country, to use the abysmal clusterbomb weapons, to support totalitarian states, to use weapons of mass destruction, to kill certain prisoners, to torture prisoners. etc.
AndreaZ64 2 years ago
B- So whether such morals are good always depends on who is asking, on who is judging. And that is because morals are relative. You would like to hear an absolute answer, but there are no absolutes in the construct that is human morality. Even IF all of mankind would agree on everything, which we do not, it would still be relative. We know we do not all have the same moral views. It is much more complicated than many would like.
AndreaZ64 2 years ago
C- Although I do not believe in moral absolutes, this does not mean I am immoral or amoral. On the contrary, I live by a set of moral rules based on modern judeo/christian and buddhist views. And I constantly judge the actions of myself and others. I do not believe everything is okay. But what I consider to be right or wrong is always a personal judgment. I can only hope others to agree with me. That is how we negotiate the morality of a society.
AndreaZ64 2 years ago
D- "The Bible, (...), is not to be taken literally"
Says who? That is just your opinion. It happens to be mine too, but too many people the bible is the absolute true word of a supernatural magical entity. They think they derive their morals from it. And that is worrying to me considering the evil, primitive, depraved and immoral nature of this entity by my standards. The fact that obedience and submission are more important than being moral is dangerous.
AndreaZ64 2 years ago
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see this is the part that i find confusing, if everything is relative and you can only hope to that others agree with you. I don't understand how you can argue against other peoples morals. What i'm getting from the weapons of mass destruction, murdering in the name of war, is that you can't judge other socities moral structure, than how can you judge other peoples individual morals. what makes your morals so much superior to someone elses.
stcolreplover 2 years ago
A- I really understand your confusion stcolreplover, because I just like you believed in moral absolutism. I can argue against other peoples morals out of my personal conviction that mine are better. And I always must be prepared to explain and defend my personal views with rationality and logic. Never can I use a fundamentally immoral cop out like "my invisible magical being told me so".
We can judge others on the basis of relative morals. We do so all the time. But it is very complicated.
AndreaZ64 2 years ago
B- We tend to believe in the simple black and white that is taught to us by some uneducated primitive religions, or the disgusting misleading morality crap produced by hollywood that is flooding our senses day by day. We love simplicity. But morals and values never are simple. Even the good bible god commits mass murder all the time and his major solution to all kinds of problems is kill, kill, kill. So, apparently even he is confused about the subject.
AndreaZ64 2 years ago
With morality it is just like any other human opinions. We can feel strongly about it, and we do not all agree on certain moral subjects. But because we are social beings, and because we have our evolved humanity in common, we have a lot of morals in common too. We need each other. And it is there that we find each other. But it is never a given absolute. We must think and judge for ourselves and weigh the options.
AndreaZ64 2 years ago
i don't get that argument that the hebrew god is somehow a hypocrite. the disasters and bloody battles in the old testament is just the recorded history of a small people that avoided amalgamation for millennia through intensive development of their language. if not for their god, they would not have bothered. however they recorded history not unlike we; disasters and bloody massacres simply get the most coverage, and the sheer number of them is the mark of any people who have survived.
nerdyharry 2 years ago
Have your faith. Have your god.
Here, I've said it.
Now leave us alone and eff off this comment section.
We don't care what you have to say, read your bible, my dear devout lunatic.
And FUCK OFF.
Otzmatron 2 years ago 152
Otzmatron apparently you have not read my exchange with stcolreplover.
I am not a believer at all. I lost my faith more than 25 years ago and I am deeply disgusted by the mindless worshiping of invisible god beings.
I do not mind that you do not care for what I have to say. I do not care for people who refer to themselves in plural or pretend to speak for others. I only answered questions that were put to me.
AndreaZ64 2 years ago 9
C- What is freedom to me? You certainly ask difficult questions. I could answer with one of the many platitudes that circulate about the concept of freedom. I agree with many of them. But I also believe freedom is relative. It is a personal concept that depends upon personal perception. There are stories about buddhist monks who felt free in prison. And for others it is never enough. I myself do not demand much in this respect. I do not even use the freedom I already have.
AndreaZ64 2 years ago
@stcolreplover well the bible says itself that it is to be taken literally but only dumbasses actually trust it in any way
patrickledford420 1 year ago
besides the video being cut off..
Good speach by Hitchens. We infidels need more eloquent voices.
Ramshobraja 2 years ago 2
See the Google author speech if you want the same stuff but presented better.
boiiinng 2 years ago 6
He made some great points.
Vektruscen 2 years ago
Hitchens could not have said it more clearly. The natural world is so much more beautiful than a supernatural world. Dinosaurs are far more interesting than dragons. The majesties of the stars far exceed a pitiful burning bush. Looking into a microscope fills one with more awe than reading about the Resurrection. Studying giant octopi is far more exciting than reading about mermaids. Why do people feel the need to invent an imaginary heaven? This life is all we get; use it wisely.
HalfDeath13 2 years ago 108
Nicely put, my friend.
FreindlyRanger 2 years ago 9
This comment has received too many negative votes show
A giant octopus is not as awe inspiring as the creator of the universe !!!!! God created you, me and all living things. Thats a fact, something cannot come out of nothing !!!!
akamola 2 years ago
people who don't believe in theism don't think we came from nothing, you believe that we came from nothing, you believe that there was nothing then god made everything out of nothing. not us lol
rationaldan 2 years ago
your fuckin daff aren't ya?yoyu dont know shit about religious people except for bs propaganda by bs morons who did too many drugs to remember why they woke up that day
TOXIC00L 2 years ago
and you believe gravity created everything
TOXIC00L 2 years ago
I personally believe that nothing was created, everything has always been , just not always in the arrangement of atoms that we see today. that everything is constantly changing. why does there have to be a being and a end ? is it not possible for just conversions of energy and matter ,we only see beings and ends in the forms of life and death. but to things that don't "live" such as a single atom there would only a conversion to energy .
rationaldan 2 years ago
If it does not live then it does essentially nothing. What may i ask do you believe as living and non living organisms?..
also civilizations have beginnings and endings just as life does.
the dino's had their time and were wiped out over time.
Also humanity is a thing to be subjugated.
last but not least i personally believe science and religion should work as one ,
because science fills in what the book cant say[through religions metaphors and symbolism]
TOXIC00L 2 years ago
just what i learned in 5th grade,one or group of cells that are capable of response to stimuli, reproduction, growth and development.but science and religion work off 2 totally different philosophy's. science is basically the study of the physical world by collecting data. Religion is a belief based on the lack of data "faith" as it were but also denying new data and the refusal to accept new credible data.science is always questioning everything and religion just accepts what they choose to.
rationaldan 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
but in religious term you only speak of Christians/Mormons/catholics.
Also accepting what is rather than spending time stupidly questioning everything like a kid is realistic.
also what do you say about Buddhism and taoism and ect?
as i said religion and science should work together.Not overlapping each other because we don't need more people playing god as with the human genome project.
and the whole issue is science tries to overlap religion[but it cant] and Christianity does this also.
TOXIC00L 2 years ago
God made everything. Really ? what about the poodle, did god make that ? what about the banana, did god make that ? what about small mouth bass , did god make that too ? of coarse not. we know how those things were made and it wasn't willed into being by god. the facts are there. Try opening your eyes and look at the facts. not just turning your head at the evidence, we know we don't have all the answers but lets just agree on what we can see and what we do know, how about that for starters .
rationaldan 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
without god there would be no person to create the next scientific advances to prove him wrong or try to be him by doing human genome or cloning research.god pushes progress on humanity
TOXIC00L 2 years ago
that would be true is there was a god
sadly, the whole point is that there isn't
dont you get it?
bustashite 2 years ago
wow all atheists are dumb closeminded dicks eh? racist to eh? womanizing assholes ugh im done with you "non-religious"white people in america....all the same
TOXIC00L 2 years ago
Wow,you say I don't know anything about religious people and that my perception of them are wrong.And what are you doing to change that.I never said anything about race,You sir are the one that said something about another race and how you don't like them.I'm pretty sure that makes you the racist not me.if you make a statement like "all" of one group are one way ,that is pretty close minded.I would say most religious don't practice what they preach and are hypocritical.and you just proved it.
rationaldan 2 years ago
my page says i read the latin bible the older one...the quote means in nomine et filli et patris espiritrus sancti..i practice what i preach chaos and destruction and order from chaos. thats what the quote is about.the only way to save people is to rid them of a place a nation to whipe something from the face of existence seeing as many animals have been pushed to the bring of non existence the best place to start is america.also white is the name that white supremacists give them selves fun huh
TOXIC00L 2 years ago
I don't think you are being serious
Troll detected
bustashite 2 years ago
define troll. bub
TOXIC00L 2 years ago
Someone who deliberately posts nonsense and annoying rubbish to get a reaction from people
bustashite 2 years ago 7
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someone who deliberately maker their name BUST A SHITE should never be taken seriously.
Also its not for a reaction its only me saying what i bloody well please.
if they get emotional over this they should try hunting pedophiles or racists who imprison native Americans just because they fit the description[even though there was none].
like that great guy trinity who was walking out of his cousins house and was arrested and jailed and now has 40 years and was denied of Miranda rights.
TOXIC00L 2 years ago
google that shit..NO GUNS ON OUR LAND.. IMPRISONED natives
TOXIC00L 2 years ago
Anyone know what this guy is talking about?
bustashite 2 years ago
google it and see how usa isnt free
TOXIC00L 2 years ago
Nah
bustashite 2 years ago
your loss bub
TOXIC00L 2 years ago
No it isn't
bustashite 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
go eat shite and bugger off!
TOXIC00L 2 years ago
@HalfDeath13
As an amateur Paleontologist, I find chromatic and metallic dragons of fantasy far more interesting than Dinosaurs. Although I agree the from my profession of teaching Astrophysics at UC Berkeley, biased as it may be. The Cosmos is a thousand times superior than the world of genesis, paradise is a far-cry to the andromeda galaxy.
Romansteel13 1 year ago
Comment removed
AdNeeb 1 year ago
There's nothing more irritating than a religious person who insists that religion is necessary to interpret scientific discoveries about our world . "Oh, Genesis is just a metaphor," they say. Well what the hell is the metaphor? Genesis could effectively be watered down to God snapping his fingers. What's the metaphor? How does that silly little story add any extra beauty to the amazing story of the Big Bang, the violent formation of the Earth and the evolution of life?
vulnerabledonkey 5 months ago 2
@vulnerabledonkey Agreed. It is a mute point, as you probably already know. It is about evidence. Move the coversation forward....the opposite of the typical religious argument of absolutes. Their trick is to have most of the answers. Counter that by science. It is very simple yet the religious like to take it case by case, then generalize.
TheDmo22222 4 months ago
@HalfDeath13, unfortunately the way we run the world right now doesn't leave the quality of life solely into your sense of wisdom, other than that, I completely agree with you.
TheBoxingCannabyte 4 months ago
the more you think about it though the more you can't help feeling like insects clinging to a rock
Seaoftea 2 years ago
well try bacteria lol
JuxTaPose117 2 years ago
jesus h man its not that bad living in reality
motivotion 2 years ago
What makes you think insects clinging to a rock have a bad life?
supruzr 2 years ago 2
Hitchens ftw.
ltbelial 2 years ago 4
I liked limbo! Limbo sounded like fun. Like a pointless surreal train station. :(
baalChrist 3 years ago 6
harry potter? :P
harry potter is just as plausible as abrahimic faith. now THAT puts things into perspective!
sinprelic 2 years ago
Where's the rest? They cut him off at the end.
OutlawTomFantastic 3 years ago 2
I think they want you to buy their DVDs to get the rest of the talks
SLRL1A1 3 years ago 2
Hitchens = World Champion
notbendable 3 years ago 16
please stop posting videos that end in the middle of a god damned sentence.
apart from that thank you
SUNIVAG 3 years ago 10
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NO its funnier when they do that
riorio23 3 years ago
Walpole-Nornalup region is where the paranormal is stationed where the TWIN INLETS spill into the Southern Ocean .
eyesandmouth 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Hitchens' career took a remarkable rise after becoming a cheerleader for Bush's bloody Iraq occupation. Everything he says here against the fraud of religion goes ten times for him in his support of W's highly profitable yet lame attempt at sleight of hand.
bumpyjjeans 3 years ago
Hitchens doesn't wholeheartedly support everything Bush jr. has ever said or done, but rather has said that he is right on the main point; coexistence with totalitarian regimes is unacceptable. He can and does criticize Bush jr. for incompetence and his religious bullshit.
And rather than supporting Bush jr., he support the policy of US to abolish Hussein's regime that was approved by the congress during the first gulf war.
angrymallard 3 years ago 7
C. Hitchens is one of the few people who have the guts to call a "fraud" a "fraud".
We need more like you. Keep up the good work.
Never be afraid, never give up.
gnuworldorder 3 years ago 5
Okay... in one speech he says the director of "Greatest Story Ever Told" was John Huston, here William Wyler. It was George Stevens. Just because I'm a pedantic bastard.
AllenbysEyes 4 years ago 6
Love the Hitch, one of my favorites... but could you please post the last minute or so? Without the whole thing, I feel like I have a wonderful truffle, and I threw it away and ate the wrapper :P
LeeTheAgent 4 years ago 15
Next time you lift a line from Hitchens make sure you use it in the proper context, yours didn't make sense.
TomPiltoff 3 years ago
Another articulate and beautiful speech by Christopher Hitchens.
kintarocrab 4 years ago 17
The more I read the Bible, the more I become an atheist.
saltydog78 4 years ago 41
Hitchens for World President :)
nitramrot 4 years ago 24
This comment has received too many negative votes show
The very thought is terrifying.
Swindlerman1 4 years ago
hitchens for world king!!!
ajmvice 4 years ago 9
did you actually listen to this speech?
doctawho42 3 years ago
More terrifying than a fundamentalist like Bush being the leader of the free world? Who is quoted as saying he had a conversation with god before invading Iraq. Or a Theocracy such as Iran having nuclear weapons?
I'd much rather Hitchens.
19995700 4 years ago 2
"More terrifying than a fundamentalist like Bush being the leader of the free world?"
The wonderful thing about the US constitution is that it doesn't MATTER that a "fundamentalist" like Bush is in office. Even if he had the inclination to abolish the teaching of evolution, criminalize abortions, bring back the witch-hunts, and force everyone to attend church on Sundays, he would be prevented from doing so by the system of checks and balances which is an integral part of the US government.
c6gunner 3 years ago 3
My God you are blinded by patriotism. I'm really not sure if you people actually realize how you look to the rest of the world when you are so incapable of introspection. I won't highlight the ridiculousness of your statement here - other than to say this is the same man who convinced congress to invade Iraq after "speaking to the man upstairs". You have Dover and its repeats - 'which hunts' politically on anyone not religious and doctors murdered who perform abortions. Don't kid yourself.
19995700 3 years ago
Blinded by patriotism? I'm not even an American, you dink.
Try to look past your biases once in a while - I guarantee it's worth the effort.
c6gunner 3 years ago
Then don't speak out of school "dink". I don't know what that is but if its anything like your last lot of drivel its not complimentary. Do yourself a favor and get an education on the subject matter - of which you clearly know nothing about. Wanker.
19995700 3 years ago
Thank you for your educated and insightful commentary. Your unique approach and articulate phrasing have given me an entirely new outlook on the matter! I only wish that other members of YouTube could be as helpful as you.
Cheers!
c6gunner 3 years ago
Anytime.
19995700 3 years ago
The Dover case was decided in favor of those who wanted to remove religious doctrine from the classroom. The doctors are not murdered by the government. I do know to which 'which hunts' (witch hunts?) you are referring, but I don't see how it rebuts c6gunner's statements about the US government either. The system of checks and balances works well, if quite slowly.
Please don't base your view of the entire US population on the incompetence of its current executive branch.
fielsjd 3 years ago
The Dover case is simply an example of the wider challenge of Creationists who intend on hijacking classrooms to further their cause. They are numerous. Doctors are murdered by fundamentalists of which you have a plethora - (who said anything about government?!). And the witch hunts (if you of read the threads) was a metaphor for those in office who do not swear allegiance to fairies and god. In other words the godless are be burned at the stake by the media (& sigh - don't take it literally)
19995700 3 years ago
The person to whom you replied, c6gunner, made statements about government. Actually, the first statement of his which did not involve government was the post in which you were called a "dink."
If your rebuttal had been written against a statement which defended the unfortunate abundance of religious fundamentalism in the US, I would have taken no issue. Although c6gunner's statements may have contained a bit too much zeal for my taste, they are defend a good system, and are by no means blind.
fielsjd 3 years ago 2
Thank you for making as much sense as the Bible. So are you saying you did take issue - or didn't? And thanks for the paraphrasing. What was the point of that exactly?
Let me guess your a Christian.
19995700 3 years ago
C6gunner made a comment beginning with "The wonderful thing about the US constitution is..."
And your reply was "My God you are blinded by patriotism...."
I took issue with the implication that the behavior of the current US executive branch is an indication of the quality of the US system of government as a whole. The point of the paraphrasing was to provide context for my comment.
You are welcome to guess anything you like about my religious affiliation.
fielsjd 3 years ago
Well once again you are making inferences and assertions which are just - wrong. Probably why I guessed you were a Christian. If the point of paraphrasing my statements is to 'take issue' or put it into context - get the context right. You have clearly followed some of the discussion yet totally misconstrued the sentiment. You wanna have a conversation please do so - but please don't come in on the arse end of a conversation, misrepresent my comments and then bleat about that falsity.
19995700 3 years ago
Once again? We have not been holding a weekly seminar.
If you feel that I have been contextually unfair, you can draw some comfort from the presence of your original comments in this forum, which, as of this message's arrival, will comprise 40 blurbs of 500 characters or less.
If I misinterpreted your statements, then that is my mistake. So far, I don't see how you can accuse me of taking a less conversational tone than you.
fielsjd 3 years ago
I don't think you have 'been contextually unfair' - just a bleating wanker with nothing valuable to say. Go join your own wagon and fuck off idiot.
19995700 3 years ago
The sheep motif is cute. Are all Australians so adorable when they get angry?
fielsjd 3 years ago
He convinced your government too. Australia sent troops to Iraq.
The president's religion was irrelevant to confrontation with Saddam. And Bush's church didn't support the invasion.
charlesvan13 3 years ago 2
Bush didn't convince my government of anything, that's quite moronic. Howard did.
And I think if Bush "had a conversation with his father upstairs" prior to invading then his religion is enormously relevant. Don't be naive. That's like saying the Dali Lama's religion isn't relevant to him being a pacifist.
19995700 3 years ago
As is the thought of religion controlling the world again.
shraleina 4 years ago
I think Hitchens himself would be appalled by your suggestion.
SugarKowalczyk88 4 years ago 7
Oh, how proper of you.
Hitchens for intergalatic, semi-naked lord clad in a revealing Byzantine robe! Now, that he would approve of!
Coruscator 4 years ago
*galactic*
Coruscator 4 years ago
i would love that-- Hitchens for World President
jeffbrown8 4 years ago 8
I love this man.
beatknik 4 years ago 4
there's 2 videos to this speech right?? is this the last one because it ends like there should be one more part
deelnyc 4 years ago 2
because YouTube does not allow videos over 10 minutes in length I had to cut this video short by about a minute or so.
AmazingMeetingVideos 4 years ago
please adjust the label on your first video as being 1/2 instead of 1/1.
and thanks for posting both videos. u'r gr8
edisonadoptable 4 years ago 2
Thanks I got that first title corrected.
No problem for posting these stay tuned as many more are coming.
AmazingMeetingVideos 4 years ago
Hmm ive seen longer, never tried to post them thought..
richter75 4 years ago
As always, Hitch is BRILLIANT!
Antitheistguy 4 years ago 14