Stop being romantic. The truth is four stroke technology is far superior to two stroke technology. If you could put a two-stroke on the market that could compete in every department with a BMW1000RR don't you think Sizuki or Kawasaki would have done it? These companies are after market share so whats stopping them selling this magical two-stoke you keep banging on about?
@BiodegradeableMan Mmm directed at no one in particular. Nice way to try to get the last word without a response. Your tactics actually made me laugh.
@Scootertuner1000 Listen, you accused me of some sort of 'tactic' to gain some sort of 'advantage.' That makes you either paranoid or disingenuous. You're way too serious for me, bye.
@BiodegradeableMan Not sure why you did it. What I do know is that you have deliberately refused to compare apples with apples and you have flat out lied. You said "Why would I compare two bikes from the same era? All I ever stated was the fact that the H2 (fun as it was) is nowhere near as good as a modern sports tourer"
Which is quite obviously a lie, because it is not what you are doing now and it is not what you were doing before So not paranoia just distrust borne from experience with you
@BiodegradeableMan Whatever. From what I see you have been arguing about his for a long time with others on this video. If that's not too serious I don't know what is. It seems more like, now that someone has an argument you can't win and is calling you out on apples to apples comparisons and calling you out when you lie, you don't want the argument any more, but whatever.
@BiodegradeableMan Not realy. Copied and pasted you arguing with someone else a year ago from this post.
@LordSamuelJ Your'e 7.6 sec for the H2 was nitrous injected kiddo, hardly counts as standard standard, lol! Good God a late model 750 gixxer will piss all over an old H2 its called progress, deal with it....
@BiodegradeableMan First you would have to change the law in the largest market in the world and the one that everyone sees as most important, the USA. There is simply a ban on 2 strokes for anything over 50cc on motorcycles. They didn't have the same rules for snowmobiles and as a result they use (for the most part) direct injected 2 stroke engines. It is a matter of changing the law in the USA, which is an extremely hard and time consuming thing to do.
@BiodegradeableMan This makes really interesting reading. If the law concerning motorcycles is changed in the USA, then 2 strokes will be back in a big way. Copy & paste this into your browser.
ht tp: //th ek neesl ider. com /archives/2011 / 02/16 / kr800-kawasaki-r otax-2-stroke-street-bike/
@BiodegradeableMan If the law is changed and 2 strokes are allowed again in motorcycles put this Rotax direct injection 2 stroke engine in a a bike for example and 2 strokes will come back with a vengence. 163hp from a 600cc direct injected 2 stroke. copy and past into your youtube url line.
@BiodegradeableMan Di bikes you can already get are only scooters, but the Aprilia SR50 DiTech does over 100mpg (as much as 50cc 4 stroke scooters) and way more than 125cc 4 stroke scooters while having a top speed of 62mph (without any mods or tuning) which is faster than most 125cc 4 stroke scooters. It beats its 4 stroke counterparts in all aspects including fuel consumption and even emissions. They could also just make them slightly less powerful to increase MPG. 168hp from 600cc is huge.
These stroke bikes will pull away from modern sportbikes from 0 to 60 or so. THen its game over.
my friend has an 07 GSXR600 that has a power commander and exhaust system dynoed at 126hp. My 2 stroke RZ350 just pulled away from him, like 5 bike lengths. above 60mph the acceleration is not as good as the 4 stroke
@MrFWDSeagrave I had two H2 750's back in 79 - 82 a 72 model and 74, one had denco chambers and was set up cafe style,then early 90's to mid I had a couple of Kaw Ninja's. The H2's could rip arms off up to 70 - 90 mph but after that they were very squirly (sp) trying to cruise at 100 was scary. The Ninja's didn't have the arm ripping take off, but are so much more controlled that you would pretty much leave an H2 after a couple of miles of high speed cruising.
I've got Goose bumps listening to that - Awesome! sound and performance - Long live the worlds remaining two stroke triples. We need you if only for making videos like this... :-)
I had a 72 H2 750 up thru the early eighties. Most of my buddies were going into the newer 4 strokes. Kawasaki had it's 1000cc not out very long when a friend claimed how fast it was! One day riding and from a standing stop I gave him a run for his money. I was way out front until about 80mph when he finally caught me. The 1000 had a little faster top end. When we pulled over all he said was man I forgot how fast those bikes were. 1'st three gears couldn't keep front end down under full throttle
power 2 frame ratio was still evolving ...many found that out the HARD WAY.....like a beautiful woman ....they look great ..sound sexy ...but if u don't treat them with respect ..you'll pay the PRICE ..LOL
I have a 73 H-2 and besides all the things said earlier, do you think a Hayabusa is going to be worth 8 or 10 times what it was bought for 40 years later. besides I need something different,not just another stock every day bike. There's also that cheap insurance with collector plates.
Hey it was a great bike in it's time, and I would rather have one than a Hayabusa, but there's no way, stock, the H2 wins on the clock. Another thing about the Hayabusa - it can also stop!
pffft suprise me fool hayabusa 0-100km/h in 2 seconds 1/4 mile in 10 flat with bigger swing arm and more power u can get em down to 8's but H2's can run 8's maybe not stock but hell its almost impossible to find a stock 2 stroke thats almost 40 years old how could you possibly say that 1 is faster then the other???
I heard they held the stock bike 1/4 mile record for 13 years until the VMAX was produced. They still hold the record for fastest 750 in the 1/4 mile. (Obviously done up)
Either that thing has some worn out rings, or the camera makes it appear to be slow. These bikes were the Hayabusa of the 70's and 80's, acceleration wise.
lol i think your in for the surprise man especially when a 40 year old 750 eats your Hayawusa. The H2 is the fastest production 750 ever built and still holds the record for the fastest 1/4 mile time by a naturally aspirated 750cc motorcycle of 7.6 seconds. Go ahead look it up the truth hurts sometimes. :)
@MrFibes I did check my facts lol. I dont see the hayabusa as any kind of naturally aspirated 1/4 mile record holder and I doubt I'll ever see it as one without mods. Face it man the Busa is not and will never be a drag bike legend like the H2. Hell, a Kawasaki ZX14 runs a better 1/4 mile time than the Busa. Just because it can push 200 mph, does not give it a fast 1/4 mile time. You should try hanging out at the drag strips and you will see allot of bikes beating the tar out of the Busa.
@MrFibes My sources?? Ive witnessed busas getting beat at the drag strip in person... The fastest Busa Ive seen was a turbo busa that ran 8 in a 1/4 mile dont get me wrong 8 second 1/4 mile runs are NOT slow. However, the fastest 750 H2 ran 7.6 without a turbo. A stock H2 may only be 70+ HP, but it also weighs less than half of a Busa, plus its a 2 stroke. If you know 2 stroke motors then you will know that the HP is generated instantly rather than progressively like that of a 4 stroke.
@BiodegradeableMan Im talking about 1/4 MILE TIME. It does NOT mean its the fastest bike ever. It means it has the fastest 1/4 mile time for a 750. The H2 so happens to have a better 1/4 mile time than the Busa. Thats all Im saying. The Busa is faster with a top speed of 200 mph while the H2 is faster at acceleration. If u still have a hard time swallowing that H2 runs the fastest 1/4 mile time for 750 (which im sure u will) ill find the site for u.
@LordSamuelJ Your'e 7.6 sec for the H2 was nitrous injected kiddo, hardly counts as standard standard, lol! Good God a late model 750 gixxer will piss all over an old H2 its called progress, deal with it....
@BiodegradeableMan LOL 750 gixxer?? wtf is that?? speak english... you mean a gxr 750? I doubt that man I used to own one of those. If its progress then why is the 1970s H2 still the fastest naturally aspirated 750?? The record holder is nitro but so were all the other bikes it was up against some were bigger than 750 mind u.. this record was achieved 3 yrs ago so it was against new bikes which im sure included the ur 750 gixxer. ur just mad cos the Busa sucks. check out smokey joes bike on here
@LordSamuelJ I'm mad cause the the Busa sucks? I have not even mentioned the bike where did that come from? Your blinded by some kind of nostalgic nonsense and are cherry picking your references and trying to pass off drag bike performance as indicitive of standard bike performance. I know twats that think their Yamaha is as quick as Rossi's its all very sad. End of conversation.....
@BiodegradeableMan I thought u were the last guy who was trying to compare H2 to a Busa. I was and have been comparing drag bikes, Busa vs H2 on the strips. Thought u were smart enough to figure that out by now. A stock H2 vs. modern bikes is different story, but its sometimes surprising what an old H2 can beat up on. It really doesnt take much to put an H2 into the 10 to 9 second realm, a good set of heads and expansion chambers can really bring the motor to life. I could care less about stock.
@BiodegradeableMan TZ750 is approx 35 years old and will hit over 300km/h. It will not only piss all over your new 750 gixxer, it will take a shit on it. Progress, you say?
NSR500 is approx 10 years old now, and does 220hp. 220hp from a 500cc engine. Think about it. No matter how fast you think your 4 stroke goes, a modified 2 stroke will be faster.
@Renceau You stupid prick of course a 'modified' machine will beat a stock unit, duh! If you want a smoking two stroke to do those speeds go ahead, I want to be able to turn and stop, lol!
@BiodegradeableMan Did I say anywhere your 4 stroke has to be stock to get owned by a 2 stroke? No I didn't. Also, since when a 2 stroke automatically makes your motorbike have bad handling and brakes? Pinhead...
@Renceau Good God man whats your problem? I owned two strokes and they were a blast but to compare them to modern bikes like a gsx750r is preposterous.
@BiodegradeableMan 2 strokes will always be the technology of speed. And they're quite easily comparable in fact. Even if there are many many years separating them.
@Renceau They are simply not practical. I've had both and like I said for short runs a two stroke is a blast but for longer fast riding they are useless.
@Renceau They do not compare to modern sports bikes in any way shape or form. I should know I owned a few. good fun but slow incomparison to today's bikes. 750 H2 maybe 74 bhp my GSX750R close to double that. Yes i'd like one again but not for serious riding, lol!
@BiodegradeableMan No I'm not talking about the H2 I'm talking about 2 strokes in general. Obviously comparing an air-cooled 40 year old motorcycle is a bit far fetched.
@Renceau Oh then why do we not use them? Massive emissions, pathetic fuel consumption and useless low end grunt. You keep em I'll use a high tech four stroke with double the power of any production two stroke ever made.
@BiodegradeableMan Do you even know how they work? By nature they are more than 50% more powerful than a four stroke... The two stroke does in one revolution what a four stroke does in two.
Fuel consumption and emission? Make researches on direct injection technologies (impossible in 4 strokes). No torque? This is outright wrong. Power valve systems give two strokes a much wider range of usable rpm.
Have you even driven a more modern two stroke? Let alone studied them?
@Renceau I've forgotten more about two-strokes than most will ever know. I worked with Terry Beckett back in the eighties porting, jetting, skimming and building bespoke exhausts for two-strokes. I owned a tricked GT750 and a KH500. Yes quick when setup properly but useless for practical riding and terrible fuel consumption. Large capacity two-strokes were banned for road use a long time ago due to the emissions they put out. Can't even buy one above 250cc so no good to me.
@BiodegradeableMan Sure. They were banned because carburettors caused them to be huge gaz guzzlers and they polute a lot due to scavenging. Honda (as well as its competitors) have decided that they will no longer produce 2 strokes, as they have sold patents for their motorcycle 4 stroke engines and simply don't care any more. On other domains such as snowmobiles and outboard boats though, 2 strokes use direct injection and are cleaner than equivalent 4 strokes.
@Renceau Wow! if i were Honda I'd produce a modern two-stroke with more power, more torque, lower emissions and better fuel economy than any four-stroke and capture the entire motorcycle market. Hell why not use two-stroke engines in cars and clean up there too! Goodbye.
@BiodegradeableMan Research a bit then we will talk again. Look at Orbital Engine Solutions and their 3 cylinder 2-stroke powerhouse used in cars. Honda (and competitors) don't need to invest money in such technologies because they know that 4-strokes just do fine for now.
Also, they know that they have that bad reputation of smelly, unreliable and gaz-guzzling engines.
@Renceau Show me a two-stroke motorcycle that does not smoke, does not smell, does not drink fuel and that will take me across Europe with loads of manageable power and I'll take a look. Till then I'll bid you adieu. If you cannot see the advantages of having an engine use a four stoke firing order then you need to do some research. Power valves are notoriously unreliable (I owned a TDR250) and it will never compete with the overhead valve technology used today.
@bonsai13100 Depends on the course characteristics. Two strokes are fun for little blasts around a field but if you're serious then you need a high tech balanced four.
@bonsai13100 2 stroke is better for road and dirt. The only reason we don't have 2 strokes much at all any more and not at all for the road is that they pollute too much (all that oil smoke). 2 strokes are always way more powerful for a given CC than 4 strokes.
@Scootertuner1000 JEEZE... dude, what are you talking about ? Four strokes are for the road and two strokes for dirt. Kawasaki did produce some two stroke triples for a while, but they are a novalty now. You couldnt give me a four stroke for dirt nor a two stroke for street...
@mrstevehartman Do some research, everyone made 2 strokes for the road. THE EPA killed them off though. I have a Suzuki GT380 (street bike) for example. Ever heard of Yamaha RZ500, Yamaha TZR750, Suzuki RG500, Suzuki TR750, Kawasaki KR750, Kawasaki KR1, Yamaha TZR125, 250, 350, 500, Suzuki GT125, 185, 250, 380, 500, 550, 750, Aprilia RS250, Suzuki RGV250, Yamaha RD250, 350, 400, 500, Benelli 250 & lots ore all road bikes. They were the bikes to have because they were fastest. & powerful
@Scootertuner1000 Yes... I know that virtually every bike mfgr built some line of 2 strokes. A lot of them were " Enduros " for both on and off road fun along with just street. The early 70s Yamaha 125, 175 and 250s come to mind here. I owned an H-2 for many years and it was fast when you got above 3000 RPM. I dont know why tho.. you knock 4 strokes as " sedate old mens bikes " ? My cousin bought a Kowi 900 in 75 and had it punched to 1100cc with cam and Kirker exhaust. That bike FAST !
@mrstevehartman All mfgs except Honda produced almost exclusively 2 strokes. Not just for dual purpose, but for road bikes too. None of the bikes I listed were enduros, and they were just a small selection of what was available. Some 4 strokes (big ones like the Z900) were seen as powerhouses, but most people rode bikes up to about 750cc back then & the 2 strokes were always fastest. Take a Honda 350 & compare to an RD350, the RD would walk all over it, hell it would slaughter the 500 & 750
@mrstevehartman The KZ900 was a real monster, but it was unusual. Try putting a CB500 honda up against an RD/RZ500, it doesn't stand a chance. I used to have a Honda CBX1000, which was a beast, but a buddy of mine could beat it on his RG500 Suzuki, easily. I like anything with 2 whheels, I have 2 strokes, 4 strokes, dirt bikes, road bikes, a hoe made diesel bike that runs on warmed up vegetable oil and even a hoe built moped.
@Scootertuner1000 I know what your saying.. pound for pound a 4 cannot keep up with a 2 ( generally ). But a 2 is doggy off the line until 3 grand. Once a 2 stroke hits its power curve, it lights up. So, why did so many mfgrs build 2 strokes ? They were cheaper to build ! NO valves, No cam, NO timing chain and so on. And, they packed a lot of punch for the buck. The Z-900 was one of the most beautiful and revolutionary bikes to be built. And punched out... a holy terror !!
@mrstevehartman Exactly, they are faster off the line too though, you just get the into the powerbandband first. y clutch is never all the way hoe until about 6 grand. The Z900 was awesome. I used a Honda CBX1000 6 cylinder 1000cc, it was a monster, but my buddy's RG500 Suzuki walked all over it. My CBX did 150mph, which was about 15ph faster than a Z1. His RG also did 150ish but got there more quickly. 2 strokes were made for all the reasons you said and it's what the customers wanted.
@Scootertuner1000 I was a mechanic for Kawasaki in the mid 70s and can still see the 900s that sold for 1,900 dollars rolling out the door. When you sat in the saddle, I was really impressed by the size of the fuel tank. We also sold the Norton 750 with " Isolastic " suspension. They were 1,450 dollars out the door. Hard to believe that these great bikes were sold so cheap ! OH... We also tried to sell the ROKON Automatic dirt bike. That didnt work so well......
@mrstevehartman I know, bikes were so cheap back then. I grew up in England and the exchange rate was $2.25 for 1 pound back then and the RD250 was $535 and 545 pounds, so much much cheaper in the USA than the UK
@mrstevehartman Until 2002 all GP bikes were 2 strokes you had 500cc 2 stroke road race bikes pushing out 220hp. Until the EPA got it's way, the really high performance road bikes were all 2 strokes, not just some Kawasakis. If you wanted a fast bike it was a 2 stroke up to about 750cc. A Yamaha RD350 would walk all over a Honda CB750 of the day. If the EPA hadn't killed 2 strokes off we would still be riding 2 strokes if we wanted performance. 4 strokes were seen as sedate old mens' bikes.
@Scootertuner1000 Anyway, we raced once and he kicked my butt. The H-2, like many 2 stroke street bikes, would make your hands tingle from vibration in short order and the engines life span was short. They were OK as " Cafe Racers " like the Yamaha 350, but were far from a touring bike. The in line fours, like the Honda 750 and Kowi 900s and up,were far better suited for touring. My conclusion is the same: 2 stroke for dirt and 4 stroke for street. But I will say, the H-2 was FAST !
@mrstevehartman Yes the Z900 was faster than the H2, but like I said it was unusual. Yes the lifespan of the engine on a 2 stroke used to be shorter than on a 4 stroke, yes they did sometimes vibrate more than a 4 stroke. The Honda 750 was trounced by the RD350, the 900 Kawi was the exception to the rule. Being a good touring bike isn't what we are talking about though is it. Being a good touring bike = sedate, which is why ALMOST all 4 strokes were seen as old mens' bikes.
@Scootertuner1000 $ strokes were seen as old mens bikes for about 2 years. Once the GPZ900 came along with a water-colled 115bhp it was bye bye for the GT750 and H2, sorry but thats just the way it was. I had a friend who had the GPZ900R when the rest of us were still strokers and the speed he blew past us even two up was frighteneing!
@BiodegradeableMan They were seen as old mens' bikes all through the 60s and 70s and on smaller capacity right up to the mid 90s for smaller capacity machines like 125, 250 and 350cc. after which they were fazed out except for a couple of models. All that said, you keep comparing 1000cc 4 strokes to smaller 2 strokes. Take 2 500cc bikes fro the mid 80s, an RG500 and a CBX550, the RG murders the CBX, and then comes back and pisses on it corpse, same goes for an Aprilia RS250 & a 250 Ninja
@BiodegradeableMan The GPZ came out in 1984 the GT750 came out in 1971, more than a decade before, of course it was goodbye GT, not to mention the fact that it was also 150cc bigger. You keep making comparisons that are apples to oranges. Compare two bikes of the same size fro the same time period.
@Scootertuner1000 Why would I compare two bikes from the same era? All I ever stated was the fact that the H2 (fun as it was) is nowhere near as good as a modern sports tourer. In its day when no-one worried about handling, braking, the cost of fuel, pollution and comfort sure it was a blast and I was 17! Would I ride a bike with H2 brakes today? No a chance in Hell, which is where I'd end in no time, lol!
@BiodegradeableMan Why would you make that comparison in the first place? it is irrelevant. And it is not all you said anyway. You keep trying to say 4 strokes are better than 2 strokes, but then you compare 2 strokes from 40 years ago to 4 strokes from now. It is most certainly not all you said. Go back and read your own comments.
@Scootertuner1000 Stop being romantic. The truth is four stroke technology is far superior to two stroke technology. If you could put a two-stroke on the market that could compete in every department with a BMW1000RR don't you think Sizuki or Kawasaki would have done it? These companies are after market share so whats stopping them selling this magical two-stoke you keep banging on about?
@Scootertuner1000 Stop being romantic. The truth is four stroke technology is far superior to two stroke technology. If you could put a two-stroke on the market that could compete in every department with a BMW1000RR don't you think Sizuki or Kawasaki would have done it? These companies are after market share so whats stopping them selling this magical two-stoke you keep banging on about?
@BiodegradeableMan This is a 2008 Cagiva Mito 125 (full power i.e. not restricted is 34hp) show me a 2008 or even a 2011 125 4 stroke that can hang with this, hell most 4 strokes can;t even keep up with it.
/watch?v=g78-1ivDgBY
The argument isn't about comparing 30 year old 2 stroke designs to brand new 4 stroke ones, it's about comparing apples with apples and 2 strokes are always faster when compared to 4 strokes of the same size from the same year.
@BiodegradeableMan If you think YPVS is an unreliable system; I think you should really try to do something we call "servicing". RD350LC YPVS is notorious for its power and reliability. It is still the best motorcycle in its category and many garages specialize in nothing but the tuning of this very engine
The technology I'm talking about isn't used in motorcycles; but I'm saying that if the technology was ported from the boats/snowmobiles, you'd be amazed. Have you ever been on a E-tec skidoo?
@Renceau Naw, I like torque and low end power. Maybe when I was a teenager I liked the screaming smokers but once you've ridden a modern one litre four stroke with 160bhp a YPVS is a joke!
@BiodegradeableMan You're comparing two completely different bikes separated by about 25 years.
Besides, a proper 500cc two stroke will eat your literbike in a twinkling of an eye.
And get you know 2 strokes do have torque, which is the whole point of powervalves in the first place.
Retain low end torque while keeping high end power. People think 2 strokes are torqueless but that's because they're of such a small engine displacement.
@Renceau You're very Bitter. And the rubbish about a two-stroke eating a Suzuki K5 is garbage. Show me a stock two-stroke (none race tuned) that can live with a stock late model 1000cc sports machine. Dam a decent gixxer 750 will gobble up the fastest production two-stroke ever made in no time, plus it will corner and stop!
@BiodegradeableMan Oh really? Once again you're comparing incomparable things! You're talking about motorbikes which are 25 years appart! I assure you that if it wasn't for emission standards (which can be met but requires a lot of investment) you'd be praising two-strokes right now! A well tuned RG500 (25 years old :O) will suck up your gixxer no problem at all, because it's not all about hp (2 strokes still win at that at equal displacement), it's mostly HOW you get to that power that counts.
@Renceau Come on kid I said compare a STOCK two-stroke wiith a STOCK gixxer thou. This bollocks about a tuned RG500 makes no sense. What about putting it up against a world superbike tuned gixxer? The fact is the modern machine is faster, more reliable, handles far better, brakes better and uses a lot less fuel. Stop drifting off into the world of ported, jetted and tuned machines, stick with production bikes.
@BiodegradeableMan Of course! But what do you expect from a motorcycle 25 years older than the other?
Do you really think they got the best out of that engine?
Damn, you really don't make it easy, I was trying to say that in order to be fair; the STOCK bike had to be MODIFIED in order to meet the level of technology on the NEW one!
@Renceau He is deliberately missing the point. He is not comparing bikes of the same size fro the same time period. He is comparing an R1 against an H2, which is not only bigger but has 3 decades ore development in it. He ignores the fact that when you take two bikes of the same size and age the 2 stroke is always faster.
@BiodegradeableMan Of course modern 1000cc sport bikes beat a 30 years old 2 strokes. I personally am talking about the superiority of 2 strokes over 4 for the potential power production, there is no way a 4 stroke can ever produce as much power as an equal sized 2 stroke with the same level of technological development none. 2 strokes are coming back with Di because the reason they were phased out is no longer valid. Arguments about handling & brakes have nothing to do with the engine
@BiodegradeableMan Coming soon, 2 strokes with DiTech Orbital Direct injection. Drinks less than a 4 stroke, pollutes less than a 4 stroke has even better power than a traditional 2 stroke and is ore reliable than a 4 stroke (less to go wrong) All of the big manufacturers are developing them, even car mfgs. So far though they have only used the DiTech syste of 50cc scooters, but they are producing more power, less hydrocarbons, less particlates and more speed and power than 150cc 4 strokes.
@BiodegradeableMan Yes coming soon to motorcycles, already available on speed boat motors and snowmobiles, it's not a huge jump from snowmobiles to bikes.
@BiodegradeableMan compare apples to apples; compare two 500 cc bikes one 2 stroke and one 4. Who's going to win that race? You keep on banging on about 100 bikes, but you are ignoring that you need a 100% displacement advantage to be able to run with 2 strokes. A 500cc 4 stroke can't even get close to a 500cc 2 stroke, even with 25 years of extra development.
@Scootertuner1000 True and shes dead, a bit like 70's two-strokes. Don't get me wrong i can get all nostalgic but in reality an H2 whilst it was fun does not compete with a modern sports machine. Do you really think a STOCK H2 can run with an R1?
@BiodegradeableMan Of course it can't, there are 3 decades worth of development more than on an H2 compare apples to apples. 70s 2 strokes are of course long gone, but you should be comparing like with like.
The last 2 strokes were the Aprilia RS250 which put out 64hp and had a top speed of 134ph (1mph slower than a Z1 900cc) The 4 stroke competition would be maybe a CBR250RR with 45hp and 115mph top speed. Even with 4 cylinders compared to the 2 stroke's V-twin the Aprilia romps home.
@BiodegradeableMan No I don't think an H2 can run with an R1, I never said that, you are missing the point. Compare apples to apples. Compare two bikes from time with the same size engines. The last available road going 2 stroke was the Aprilia RS250, nothing in the 250cc class with a 4 stroke motor could even get near it, not even the 400s could, you needed a 600 to be able to beat it and as soon as it got twisty the Aprilia romped home because it was much lighter w modern brakes & frame
@BiodegradeableMan You see to be deliberately missing the point. Compare apples to apples, same size engines and same level of technological development not 35 year old 750 against a brand new 1000. i.e. RG500 vs CBX550 or RD350YPVS vs Honda CB350 or RD500LC YPVS against XJ550. They are all bikes of the same size (near enough) every tie the 2 stroke trounces the 4 stroke. I a not under any illusions, there is no way in hell a STOCK H2 can stay with an R1, but I have never said that.
Is it still running?
axyww 2 weeks ago
its a very good sound!
frankitronce 1 month ago
this is is orgasm!!!!:)
BessP93 2 months ago
what no wheelie
twostrokebrit 2 months ago
I sure don't hear bikes going by that sound like this. Although.. I'm rebuilding an S1 myself. ^_^
Frejborg 2 months ago
Jesus...EARGASM
TheValt95 4 months ago 4
There is a video of a Yamaha RD500 that SMOKES a Yamaha r1 here.
Just search!
znoop72 4 months ago
Stop being romantic. The truth is four stroke technology is far superior to two stroke technology. If you could put a two-stroke on the market that could compete in every department with a BMW1000RR don't you think Sizuki or Kawasaki would have done it? These companies are after market share so whats stopping them selling this magical two-stoke you keep banging on about?
BiodegradeableMan 5 months ago
@BiodegradeableMan Mmm directed at no one in particular. Nice way to try to get the last word without a response. Your tactics actually made me laugh.
Scootertuner1000 5 months ago
@Scootertuner1000 Mmm I tried to direct my comment to you but git error everytime. Tried a general comment and it worked. Don't be so paranoid.
BiodegradeableMan 4 months ago
@BiodegradeableMan who's paranoid, you could have also tried talking to Renceau, did you have the same comment posting to him too?
Scootertuner1000 4 months ago
@Scootertuner1000 Listen, you accused me of some sort of 'tactic' to gain some sort of 'advantage.' That makes you either paranoid or disingenuous. You're way too serious for me, bye.
BiodegradeableMan 4 months ago
@BiodegradeableMan Not sure why you did it. What I do know is that you have deliberately refused to compare apples with apples and you have flat out lied. You said "Why would I compare two bikes from the same era? All I ever stated was the fact that the H2 (fun as it was) is nowhere near as good as a modern sports tourer"
Which is quite obviously a lie, because it is not what you are doing now and it is not what you were doing before So not paranoia just distrust borne from experience with you
Scootertuner1000 4 months ago
@Scootertuner1000 Like I said, way too serious.
BiodegradeableMan 4 months ago
@BiodegradeableMan Whatever. From what I see you have been arguing about his for a long time with others on this video. If that's not too serious I don't know what is. It seems more like, now that someone has an argument you can't win and is calling you out on apples to apples comparisons and calling you out when you lie, you don't want the argument any more, but whatever.
Scootertuner1000 4 months ago
@BiodegradeableMan You've been banging on about this for more than a year, and you want to call me too serious. LOL. Whatever.
Scootertuner1000 4 months ago
@Scootertuner1000 Hee hee, prone to exagerration aren't we?
BiodegradeableMan 4 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@BiodegradeableMan Not realy. Copied and pasted you arguing with someone else a year ago from this post.
@LordSamuelJ Your'e 7.6 sec for the H2 was nitrous injected kiddo, hardly counts as standard standard, lol! Good God a late model 750 gixxer will piss all over an old H2 its called progress, deal with it....
BiodegradeableMan 1 year ago
Scootertuner1000 4 months ago
@BiodegradeableMan Little prone to denial aren't you
Scootertuner1000 4 months ago
@BiodegradeableMan You keep putting your foot deeper and deeper into you rmouth. Time to quit buddy, you've been at it for at least a year now.
Scootertuner1000 4 months ago
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@Scootertuner1000 You seem to think I give a dam. You accuse me of banging on and yet you continue to badger me. What do you hope to prove?
BiodegradeableMan 4 months ago
@BiodegradeableMan 2 stroke=win (:
whassup789 4 months ago 9
@whassup789 That's why the best selling motorcycles are 4 stokes, lol!
BiodegradeableMan 4 months ago
@BiodegradeableMan
Only because emissions regulation killed the 2 cycles.......
matt420740 3 months ago
@matt420740 Yeah that must be it, lol!
BiodegradeableMan 3 months ago
@BiodegradeableMan First you would have to change the law in the largest market in the world and the one that everyone sees as most important, the USA. There is simply a ban on 2 strokes for anything over 50cc on motorcycles. They didn't have the same rules for snowmobiles and as a result they use (for the most part) direct injected 2 stroke engines. It is a matter of changing the law in the USA, which is an extremely hard and time consuming thing to do.
Scootertuner1000 5 months ago
@BiodegradeableMan This makes really interesting reading. If the law concerning motorcycles is changed in the USA, then 2 strokes will be back in a big way. Copy & paste this into your browser.
ht tp: //th ek neesl ider. com /archives/2011 / 02/16 / kr800-kawasaki-r otax-2-stroke-street-bike/
Scootertuner1000 5 months ago
@BiodegradeableMan If the law is changed and 2 strokes are allowed again in motorcycles put this Rotax direct injection 2 stroke engine in a a bike for example and 2 strokes will come back with a vengence. 163hp from a 600cc direct injected 2 stroke. copy and past into your youtube url line.
/watch?v=eu3NEPSBfUs
Scootertuner1000 5 months ago
@Scootertuner1000 Great, and when they can offer decent fuel economy to go with it I suggest you open a dealership and clean up!
BiodegradeableMan 4 months ago
@BiodegradeableMan Di bikes you can already get are only scooters, but the Aprilia SR50 DiTech does over 100mpg (as much as 50cc 4 stroke scooters) and way more than 125cc 4 stroke scooters while having a top speed of 62mph (without any mods or tuning) which is faster than most 125cc 4 stroke scooters. It beats its 4 stroke counterparts in all aspects including fuel consumption and even emissions. They could also just make them slightly less powerful to increase MPG. 168hp from 600cc is huge.
Scootertuner1000 4 months ago
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Scootertuner1000 5 months ago
@Scootertuner1000 It does seem like it.
Renceau 5 months ago
@Renceau he's talking to himself now. Seems his arguments only hold up in an echo chamber
Scootertuner1000 5 months ago
Love when that 2 stroke triple reaches 3000 RPM cause its race time. Used to own one...
mrstevehartman 5 months ago
dude I was the proud owner of a 1974 H1 500 and it was just as fast as any 600 of say 1995-2000
BrianNoel49 5 months ago
What about the Honda four? Will the h1/h2s keep up?
znoop72 6 months ago
@znoop72 not even close
Scootertuner1000 5 months ago
i just jizzed.....
bonsai13100 7 months ago
@MrFWDSeagrave A Suzuki TR750 (three cylinder 2 stroke 750) will do 180mph. It's a 40 year old bike.
Scootertuner1000 1 year ago
These stroke bikes will pull away from modern sportbikes from 0 to 60 or so. THen its game over.
my friend has an 07 GSXR600 that has a power commander and exhaust system dynoed at 126hp. My 2 stroke RZ350 just pulled away from him, like 5 bike lengths. above 60mph the acceleration is not as good as the 4 stroke
znuto 1 year ago
@MrFWDSeagrave I had two H2 750's back in 79 - 82 a 72 model and 74, one had denco chambers and was set up cafe style,then early 90's to mid I had a couple of Kaw Ninja's. The H2's could rip arms off up to 70 - 90 mph but after that they were very squirly (sp) trying to cruise at 100 was scary. The Ninja's didn't have the arm ripping take off, but are so much more controlled that you would pretty much leave an H2 after a couple of miles of high speed cruising.
Kyocera234 1 year ago
best 2 stroke ever!!!
**********
driftking9293 1 year ago 13
Thank you!!!
Cully1231 1 year ago
I've got Goose bumps listening to that - Awesome! sound and performance - Long live the worlds remaining two stroke triples. We need you if only for making videos like this... :-)
Bevoin1970 1 year ago 7
I had a 72 H2 750 up thru the early eighties. Most of my buddies were going into the newer 4 strokes. Kawasaki had it's 1000cc not out very long when a friend claimed how fast it was! One day riding and from a standing stop I gave him a run for his money. I was way out front until about 80mph when he finally caught me. The 1000 had a little faster top end. When we pulled over all he said was man I forgot how fast those bikes were. 1'st three gears couldn't keep front end down under full throttle
murpr 1 year ago
I used to drag race a modified H2 750.
The stock machine is impossible to drag race properly because it
will do a wheely in 1st, 2nd & 3rd if you give it full power.
You just can't keep the front wheel down.
The power band is wicked with chambers & a port job.
I don't care who it is.
An H2 750 deserves respect from any rider on even todays bikes.
It was a widow maker.
alpal2002 1 year ago
@MrFWDSeagrave Well iv ridden a few modern 600s, and are dull compared to the H2, TRIPLES ARE SMILES BETTER,
blackhat400 1 year ago
What modern sports bike can get your hairs standing on edge like this sound?
Goose Bumps FTW :)
rbarraud 1 year ago
you're ridin on the wrong side of the road man
9thprotocol 1 year ago
NO !
moruller 1 year ago
I miss my triple. They were something when everything was working right!
Cully1231 1 year ago
MrFibs.
8 sec. 40 years ago is still 8sec today my freind you need to watch smokeing joes video that will set you stright about these's bikes.
72zx750r 1 year ago
power 2 frame ratio was still evolving ...many found that out the HARD WAY.....like a beautiful woman ....they look great ..sound sexy ...but if u don't treat them with respect ..you'll pay the PRICE ..LOL
harmageden 1 year ago
Who cares if it can keep up with modern bikes,its got style and it smells great!
Bikinbest 1 year ago
I supprised that he was not getting more back tire time, The ones I rode years ago would stand right up if you grabbed a handful of throttle
scrapologist 1 year ago
I have a 73 H-2 and besides all the things said earlier, do you think a Hayabusa is going to be worth 8 or 10 times what it was bought for 40 years later. besides I need something different,not just another stock every day bike. There's also that cheap insurance with collector plates.
evilkawood 1 year ago
Depending of which sport bike you´re refers to, but the Kawa 750 -72/73 model can keep up with these bikes from standing still to 60-70 m.p.h....
But ALWAYS remember; it´s 40 years time difference....
Kawamach4 2 years ago 6
any bike that can run in the 8's needs respect
extreeeeeemist 2 years ago
Hey it was a great bike in it's time, and I would rather have one than a Hayabusa, but there's no way, stock, the H2 wins on the clock. Another thing about the Hayabusa - it can also stop!
buckbw 2 years ago
pffft suprise me fool hayabusa 0-100km/h in 2 seconds 1/4 mile in 10 flat with bigger swing arm and more power u can get em down to 8's but H2's can run 8's maybe not stock but hell its almost impossible to find a stock 2 stroke thats almost 40 years old how could you possibly say that 1 is faster then the other???
Sipifok 2 years ago
doesnt take much to get an 8 second out of them
Sipifok 2 years ago
Hi!
I´m the videoshooter, and I can promise you one thing: This bike was NOT slow! Passing me on a distace of 0,5 - 1 meter in approx 200 k.p.h felt fast!
I have to excuse my shaking hands, but I was pretty excited during this videosession...
I have my self a Kawa H2 1972 mod, but complete original. Not as fast as the dutch bike, but still I do not make any trafic jams.. *lol*
Kawamach4 2 years ago 3
I heard they held the stock bike 1/4 mile record for 13 years until the VMAX was produced. They still hold the record for fastest 750 in the 1/4 mile. (Obviously done up)
evilkawood 2 years ago
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evilkawood 2 years ago
It doesn't look or sound slow at all!
motorcityrocker 2 years ago
the seals between the cylinders could be leaky...im restoring one of these and those seals on the shaft are very important...Great Video!
mfluke44 2 years ago
Either that thing has some worn out rings, or the camera makes it appear to be slow. These bikes were the Hayabusa of the 70's and 80's, acceleration wise.
kcole939 2 years ago
They were the Hayabusa of their time,, doesnt mean they were fast as Hayabusas, just that the competition were slower.
We are talking 30-35 years back in time, man.
Besides, things have a tendency to look slower on youtube than in real life
MrFibes 2 years ago
The hayabusa of their time???
too bad these things smash hayabusa's ....
Sipifok 2 years ago
Comment removed
MrFibes 2 years ago
You think it is faster than a Hayabusa? wow, you are in for a surprise
MrFibes 2 years ago
lol i think your in for the surprise man especially when a 40 year old 750 eats your Hayawusa. The H2 is the fastest production 750 ever built and still holds the record for the fastest 1/4 mile time by a naturally aspirated 750cc motorcycle of 7.6 seconds. Go ahead look it up the truth hurts sometimes. :)
LordSamuelJ 1 year ago
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MrFibes 1 year ago
@LordSamuelJ . lol, you are nutz. Go check the facts yourself. YOU are in for a surprise.. (although I dont think you'll bother)
MrFibes 1 year ago
@MrFibes I did check my facts lol. I dont see the hayabusa as any kind of naturally aspirated 1/4 mile record holder and I doubt I'll ever see it as one without mods. Face it man the Busa is not and will never be a drag bike legend like the H2. Hell, a Kawasaki ZX14 runs a better 1/4 mile time than the Busa. Just because it can push 200 mph, does not give it a fast 1/4 mile time. You should try hanging out at the drag strips and you will see allot of bikes beating the tar out of the Busa.
LordSamuelJ 1 year ago
@LordSamuelJ . your sources are taking you for a long ride man. lol
*theres no place like home, theres no place like home, theres no place like home* KOKOOOOOOOO
MrFibes 1 year ago
@MrFibes My sources?? Ive witnessed busas getting beat at the drag strip in person... The fastest Busa Ive seen was a turbo busa that ran 8 in a 1/4 mile dont get me wrong 8 second 1/4 mile runs are NOT slow. However, the fastest 750 H2 ran 7.6 without a turbo. A stock H2 may only be 70+ HP, but it also weighs less than half of a Busa, plus its a 2 stroke. If you know 2 stroke motors then you will know that the HP is generated instantly rather than progressively like that of a 4 stroke.
LordSamuelJ 1 year ago
@LordSamuelJ Stop being silly, I loved the H2 but statements like 'its the fastest prod 750 ever built is pathetic'.
BiodegradeableMan 1 year ago
@BiodegradeableMan Im talking about 1/4 MILE TIME. It does NOT mean its the fastest bike ever. It means it has the fastest 1/4 mile time for a 750. The H2 so happens to have a better 1/4 mile time than the Busa. Thats all Im saying. The Busa is faster with a top speed of 200 mph while the H2 is faster at acceleration. If u still have a hard time swallowing that H2 runs the fastest 1/4 mile time for 750 (which im sure u will) ill find the site for u.
LordSamuelJ 1 year ago
@LordSamuelJ Your'e 7.6 sec for the H2 was nitrous injected kiddo, hardly counts as standard standard, lol! Good God a late model 750 gixxer will piss all over an old H2 its called progress, deal with it....
BiodegradeableMan 1 year ago
@BiodegradeableMan LOL 750 gixxer?? wtf is that?? speak english... you mean a gxr 750? I doubt that man I used to own one of those. If its progress then why is the 1970s H2 still the fastest naturally aspirated 750?? The record holder is nitro but so were all the other bikes it was up against some were bigger than 750 mind u.. this record was achieved 3 yrs ago so it was against new bikes which im sure included the ur 750 gixxer. ur just mad cos the Busa sucks. check out smokey joes bike on here
LordSamuelJ 1 year ago
@LordSamuelJ I'm mad cause the the Busa sucks? I have not even mentioned the bike where did that come from? Your blinded by some kind of nostalgic nonsense and are cherry picking your references and trying to pass off drag bike performance as indicitive of standard bike performance. I know twats that think their Yamaha is as quick as Rossi's its all very sad. End of conversation.....
BiodegradeableMan 1 year ago
@BiodegradeableMan I thought u were the last guy who was trying to compare H2 to a Busa. I was and have been comparing drag bikes, Busa vs H2 on the strips. Thought u were smart enough to figure that out by now. A stock H2 vs. modern bikes is different story, but its sometimes surprising what an old H2 can beat up on. It really doesnt take much to put an H2 into the 10 to 9 second realm, a good set of heads and expansion chambers can really bring the motor to life. I could care less about stock.
LordSamuelJ 1 year ago
@BiodegradeableMan TZ750 is approx 35 years old and will hit over 300km/h. It will not only piss all over your new 750 gixxer, it will take a shit on it. Progress, you say?
NSR500 is approx 10 years old now, and does 220hp. 220hp from a 500cc engine. Think about it. No matter how fast you think your 4 stroke goes, a modified 2 stroke will be faster.
Renceau 9 months ago
@Renceau You stupid prick of course a 'modified' machine will beat a stock unit, duh! If you want a smoking two stroke to do those speeds go ahead, I want to be able to turn and stop, lol!
BiodegradeableMan 9 months ago
@BiodegradeableMan Did I say anywhere your 4 stroke has to be stock to get owned by a 2 stroke? No I didn't. Also, since when a 2 stroke automatically makes your motorbike have bad handling and brakes? Pinhead...
Renceau 9 months ago
@Renceau Good God man whats your problem? I owned two strokes and they were a blast but to compare them to modern bikes like a gsx750r is preposterous.
BiodegradeableMan 9 months ago
@BiodegradeableMan 2 strokes will always be the technology of speed. And they're quite easily comparable in fact. Even if there are many many years separating them.
Renceau 9 months ago
@Renceau They are simply not practical. I've had both and like I said for short runs a two stroke is a blast but for longer fast riding they are useless.
BiodegradeableMan 9 months ago
@BiodegradeableMan It depends a lot on how you drive. They are reliable when you know how to take care of it and know what not to do when driving it.
Renceau 9 months ago
@Renceau They do not compare to modern sports bikes in any way shape or form. I should know I owned a few. good fun but slow incomparison to today's bikes. 750 H2 maybe 74 bhp my GSX750R close to double that. Yes i'd like one again but not for serious riding, lol!
BiodegradeableMan 9 months ago
@BiodegradeableMan No I'm not talking about the H2 I'm talking about 2 strokes in general. Obviously comparing an air-cooled 40 year old motorcycle is a bit far fetched.
Renceau 9 months ago
@Renceau I don't know what you are trying to prove here. Two strokes were fun but technologically they are redundant.
BiodegradeableMan 9 months ago
@BiodegradeableMan 2 strokes is the technology of speed and power. They are not redundant.
Renceau 9 months ago
@Renceau Oh then why do we not use them? Massive emissions, pathetic fuel consumption and useless low end grunt. You keep em I'll use a high tech four stroke with double the power of any production two stroke ever made.
BiodegradeableMan 9 months ago
@BiodegradeableMan Do you even know how they work? By nature they are more than 50% more powerful than a four stroke... The two stroke does in one revolution what a four stroke does in two.
Fuel consumption and emission? Make researches on direct injection technologies (impossible in 4 strokes). No torque? This is outright wrong. Power valve systems give two strokes a much wider range of usable rpm.
Have you even driven a more modern two stroke? Let alone studied them?
Renceau 9 months ago
@Renceau I've forgotten more about two-strokes than most will ever know. I worked with Terry Beckett back in the eighties porting, jetting, skimming and building bespoke exhausts for two-strokes. I owned a tricked GT750 and a KH500. Yes quick when setup properly but useless for practical riding and terrible fuel consumption. Large capacity two-strokes were banned for road use a long time ago due to the emissions they put out. Can't even buy one above 250cc so no good to me.
BiodegradeableMan 9 months ago
@BiodegradeableMan Sure. They were banned because carburettors caused them to be huge gaz guzzlers and they polute a lot due to scavenging. Honda (as well as its competitors) have decided that they will no longer produce 2 strokes, as they have sold patents for their motorcycle 4 stroke engines and simply don't care any more. On other domains such as snowmobiles and outboard boats though, 2 strokes use direct injection and are cleaner than equivalent 4 strokes.
Renceau 9 months ago
@Renceau Wow! if i were Honda I'd produce a modern two-stroke with more power, more torque, lower emissions and better fuel economy than any four-stroke and capture the entire motorcycle market. Hell why not use two-stroke engines in cars and clean up there too! Goodbye.
BiodegradeableMan 9 months ago
@BiodegradeableMan Research a bit then we will talk again. Look at Orbital Engine Solutions and their 3 cylinder 2-stroke powerhouse used in cars. Honda (and competitors) don't need to invest money in such technologies because they know that 4-strokes just do fine for now.
Also, they know that they have that bad reputation of smelly, unreliable and gaz-guzzling engines.
Renceau 9 months ago
@Renceau "Also, they know that they have that bad reputation of smelly, unreliable and gaz-guzzling engines."
You said it!
BiodegradeableMan 9 months ago
@BiodegradeableMan I meant that you are part of the reason why they don't launch those researches ^^
Too many people think like you.
Renceau 9 months ago
@Renceau Show me a two-stroke motorcycle that does not smoke, does not smell, does not drink fuel and that will take me across Europe with loads of manageable power and I'll take a look. Till then I'll bid you adieu. If you cannot see the advantages of having an engine use a four stoke firing order then you need to do some research. Power valves are notoriously unreliable (I owned a TDR250) and it will never compete with the overhead valve technology used today.
BiodegradeableMan 9 months ago
@BiodegradeableMan if it was a motorcycle, go with fourstroke. now if it were a dirtbike, do the obvious, go with 2 stroke all the way.
bonsai13100 7 months ago
@bonsai13100 Depends on the course characteristics. Two strokes are fun for little blasts around a field but if you're serious then you need a high tech balanced four.
BiodegradeableMan 7 months ago
@bonsai13100 2 stroke is better for road and dirt. The only reason we don't have 2 strokes much at all any more and not at all for the road is that they pollute too much (all that oil smoke). 2 strokes are always way more powerful for a given CC than 4 strokes.
Scootertuner1000 5 months ago
@Scootertuner1000 JEEZE... dude, what are you talking about ? Four strokes are for the road and two strokes for dirt. Kawasaki did produce some two stroke triples for a while, but they are a novalty now. You couldnt give me a four stroke for dirt nor a two stroke for street...
mrstevehartman 5 months ago
@mrstevehartman Do some research, everyone made 2 strokes for the road. THE EPA killed them off though. I have a Suzuki GT380 (street bike) for example. Ever heard of Yamaha RZ500, Yamaha TZR750, Suzuki RG500, Suzuki TR750, Kawasaki KR750, Kawasaki KR1, Yamaha TZR125, 250, 350, 500, Suzuki GT125, 185, 250, 380, 500, 550, 750, Aprilia RS250, Suzuki RGV250, Yamaha RD250, 350, 400, 500, Benelli 250 & lots ore all road bikes. They were the bikes to have because they were fastest. & powerful
Scootertuner1000 5 months ago
@Scootertuner1000 Yes... I know that virtually every bike mfgr built some line of 2 strokes. A lot of them were " Enduros " for both on and off road fun along with just street. The early 70s Yamaha 125, 175 and 250s come to mind here. I owned an H-2 for many years and it was fast when you got above 3000 RPM. I dont know why tho.. you knock 4 strokes as " sedate old mens bikes " ? My cousin bought a Kowi 900 in 75 and had it punched to 1100cc with cam and Kirker exhaust. That bike FAST !
mrstevehartman 5 months ago
@mrstevehartman All mfgs except Honda produced almost exclusively 2 strokes. Not just for dual purpose, but for road bikes too. None of the bikes I listed were enduros, and they were just a small selection of what was available. Some 4 strokes (big ones like the Z900) were seen as powerhouses, but most people rode bikes up to about 750cc back then & the 2 strokes were always fastest. Take a Honda 350 & compare to an RD350, the RD would walk all over it, hell it would slaughter the 500 & 750
Scootertuner1000 5 months ago
@mrstevehartman The KZ900 was a real monster, but it was unusual. Try putting a CB500 honda up against an RD/RZ500, it doesn't stand a chance. I used to have a Honda CBX1000, which was a beast, but a buddy of mine could beat it on his RG500 Suzuki, easily. I like anything with 2 whheels, I have 2 strokes, 4 strokes, dirt bikes, road bikes, a hoe made diesel bike that runs on warmed up vegetable oil and even a hoe built moped.
Scootertuner1000 5 months ago
@Scootertuner1000 I know what your saying.. pound for pound a 4 cannot keep up with a 2 ( generally ). But a 2 is doggy off the line until 3 grand. Once a 2 stroke hits its power curve, it lights up. So, why did so many mfgrs build 2 strokes ? They were cheaper to build ! NO valves, No cam, NO timing chain and so on. And, they packed a lot of punch for the buck. The Z-900 was one of the most beautiful and revolutionary bikes to be built. And punched out... a holy terror !!
mrstevehartman 5 months ago
@mrstevehartman Exactly, they are faster off the line too though, you just get the into the powerbandband first. y clutch is never all the way hoe until about 6 grand. The Z900 was awesome. I used a Honda CBX1000 6 cylinder 1000cc, it was a monster, but my buddy's RG500 Suzuki walked all over it. My CBX did 150mph, which was about 15ph faster than a Z1. His RG also did 150ish but got there more quickly. 2 strokes were made for all the reasons you said and it's what the customers wanted.
Scootertuner1000 5 months ago
@Scootertuner1000 I was a mechanic for Kawasaki in the mid 70s and can still see the 900s that sold for 1,900 dollars rolling out the door. When you sat in the saddle, I was really impressed by the size of the fuel tank. We also sold the Norton 750 with " Isolastic " suspension. They were 1,450 dollars out the door. Hard to believe that these great bikes were sold so cheap ! OH... We also tried to sell the ROKON Automatic dirt bike. That didnt work so well......
mrstevehartman 5 months ago
@mrstevehartman I know, bikes were so cheap back then. I grew up in England and the exchange rate was $2.25 for 1 pound back then and the RD250 was $535 and 545 pounds, so much much cheaper in the USA than the UK
Scootertuner1000 5 months ago
@mrstevehartman Until 2002 all GP bikes were 2 strokes you had 500cc 2 stroke road race bikes pushing out 220hp. Until the EPA got it's way, the really high performance road bikes were all 2 strokes, not just some Kawasakis. If you wanted a fast bike it was a 2 stroke up to about 750cc. A Yamaha RD350 would walk all over a Honda CB750 of the day. If the EPA hadn't killed 2 strokes off we would still be riding 2 strokes if we wanted performance. 4 strokes were seen as sedate old mens' bikes.
Scootertuner1000 5 months ago
@Scootertuner1000 Anyway, we raced once and he kicked my butt. The H-2, like many 2 stroke street bikes, would make your hands tingle from vibration in short order and the engines life span was short. They were OK as " Cafe Racers " like the Yamaha 350, but were far from a touring bike. The in line fours, like the Honda 750 and Kowi 900s and up,were far better suited for touring. My conclusion is the same: 2 stroke for dirt and 4 stroke for street. But I will say, the H-2 was FAST !
mrstevehartman 5 months ago
@mrstevehartman Yes the Z900 was faster than the H2, but like I said it was unusual. Yes the lifespan of the engine on a 2 stroke used to be shorter than on a 4 stroke, yes they did sometimes vibrate more than a 4 stroke. The Honda 750 was trounced by the RD350, the 900 Kawi was the exception to the rule. Being a good touring bike isn't what we are talking about though is it. Being a good touring bike = sedate, which is why ALMOST all 4 strokes were seen as old mens' bikes.
Scootertuner1000 5 months ago
@Scootertuner1000 $ strokes were seen as old mens bikes for about 2 years. Once the GPZ900 came along with a water-colled 115bhp it was bye bye for the GT750 and H2, sorry but thats just the way it was. I had a friend who had the GPZ900R when the rest of us were still strokers and the speed he blew past us even two up was frighteneing!
BiodegradeableMan 5 months ago
@BiodegradeableMan They were seen as old mens' bikes all through the 60s and 70s and on smaller capacity right up to the mid 90s for smaller capacity machines like 125, 250 and 350cc. after which they were fazed out except for a couple of models. All that said, you keep comparing 1000cc 4 strokes to smaller 2 strokes. Take 2 500cc bikes fro the mid 80s, an RG500 and a CBX550, the RG murders the CBX, and then comes back and pisses on it corpse, same goes for an Aprilia RS250 & a 250 Ninja
Scootertuner1000 5 months ago
@BiodegradeableMan The GPZ came out in 1984 the GT750 came out in 1971, more than a decade before, of course it was goodbye GT, not to mention the fact that it was also 150cc bigger. You keep making comparisons that are apples to oranges. Compare two bikes of the same size fro the same time period.
Scootertuner1000 5 months ago
@Scootertuner1000 Why would I compare two bikes from the same era? All I ever stated was the fact that the H2 (fun as it was) is nowhere near as good as a modern sports tourer. In its day when no-one worried about handling, braking, the cost of fuel, pollution and comfort sure it was a blast and I was 17! Would I ride a bike with H2 brakes today? No a chance in Hell, which is where I'd end in no time, lol!
BiodegradeableMan 5 months ago
@BiodegradeableMan Why would you make that comparison in the first place? it is irrelevant. And it is not all you said anyway. You keep trying to say 4 strokes are better than 2 strokes, but then you compare 2 strokes from 40 years ago to 4 strokes from now. It is most certainly not all you said. Go back and read your own comments.
Scootertuner1000 5 months ago
@Scootertuner1000 Stop being romantic. The truth is four stroke technology is far superior to two stroke technology. If you could put a two-stroke on the market that could compete in every department with a BMW1000RR don't you think Sizuki or Kawasaki would have done it? These companies are after market share so whats stopping them selling this magical two-stoke you keep banging on about?
BiodegradeableMan 5 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Scootertuner1000 Stop being romantic. The truth is four stroke technology is far superior to two stroke technology. If you could put a two-stroke on the market that could compete in every department with a BMW1000RR don't you think Sizuki or Kawasaki would have done it? These companies are after market share so whats stopping them selling this magical two-stoke you keep banging on about?
BiodegradeableMan 5 months ago
@BiodegradeableMan This is a 2008 Cagiva Mito 125 (full power i.e. not restricted is 34hp) show me a 2008 or even a 2011 125 4 stroke that can hang with this, hell most 4 strokes can;t even keep up with it.
/watch?v=g78-1ivDgBY
The argument isn't about comparing 30 year old 2 stroke designs to brand new 4 stroke ones, it's about comparing apples with apples and 2 strokes are always faster when compared to 4 strokes of the same size from the same year.
Scootertuner1000 5 months ago
@BiodegradeableMan If you think YPVS is an unreliable system; I think you should really try to do something we call "servicing". RD350LC YPVS is notorious for its power and reliability. It is still the best motorcycle in its category and many garages specialize in nothing but the tuning of this very engine
The technology I'm talking about isn't used in motorcycles; but I'm saying that if the technology was ported from the boats/snowmobiles, you'd be amazed. Have you ever been on a E-tec skidoo?
Renceau 5 months ago
@Renceau Maybe petrol is cheap where you live, here two-strokes are dead.
BiodegradeableMan 5 months ago
@BiodegradeableMan Up to 1.6€ per liter, thank you.
Direct injection 2 strokes are fuel efficient. Do you get it? Petrol electrogens are huge fuel injected 2 strokes.
Renceau 5 months ago
@Renceau Naw, I like torque and low end power. Maybe when I was a teenager I liked the screaming smokers but once you've ridden a modern one litre four stroke with 160bhp a YPVS is a joke!
BiodegradeableMan 5 months ago
@BiodegradeableMan You're comparing two completely different bikes separated by about 25 years.
Besides, a proper 500cc two stroke will eat your literbike in a twinkling of an eye.
And get you know 2 strokes do have torque, which is the whole point of powervalves in the first place.
Retain low end torque while keeping high end power. People think 2 strokes are torqueless but that's because they're of such a small engine displacement.
Renceau 5 months ago
@Renceau Hee hee, ok so lets blast across europe, you on a two-stroke and me on a litre four, get real!!!!!
BiodegradeableMan 5 months ago
@BiodegradeableMan I'm a motorcycle enthusiast, not a traveller.
Renceau 5 months ago
@Renceau I'm a motorcycle enthusiast who likes to travel. Think about it..........
BiodegradeableMan 5 months ago
@BiodegradeableMan Get yourself a car, you'll be better off; and it seems much more fitted for you. They're 4 stroke, too! :D
Renceau 5 months ago
@Renceau You're very Bitter. And the rubbish about a two-stroke eating a Suzuki K5 is garbage. Show me a stock two-stroke (none race tuned) that can live with a stock late model 1000cc sports machine. Dam a decent gixxer 750 will gobble up the fastest production two-stroke ever made in no time, plus it will corner and stop!
BiodegradeableMan 5 months ago
@BiodegradeableMan Oh really? Once again you're comparing incomparable things! You're talking about motorbikes which are 25 years appart! I assure you that if it wasn't for emission standards (which can be met but requires a lot of investment) you'd be praising two-strokes right now! A well tuned RG500 (25 years old :O) will suck up your gixxer no problem at all, because it's not all about hp (2 strokes still win at that at equal displacement), it's mostly HOW you get to that power that counts.
Renceau 5 months ago
@Renceau Come on kid I said compare a STOCK two-stroke wiith a STOCK gixxer thou. This bollocks about a tuned RG500 makes no sense. What about putting it up against a world superbike tuned gixxer? The fact is the modern machine is faster, more reliable, handles far better, brakes better and uses a lot less fuel. Stop drifting off into the world of ported, jetted and tuned machines, stick with production bikes.
BiodegradeableMan 5 months ago
@BiodegradeableMan Of course! But what do you expect from a motorcycle 25 years older than the other?
Do you really think they got the best out of that engine?
Damn, you really don't make it easy, I was trying to say that in order to be fair; the STOCK bike had to be MODIFIED in order to meet the level of technology on the NEW one!
Renceau 5 months ago
@Renceau He is deliberately missing the point. He is not comparing bikes of the same size fro the same time period. He is comparing an R1 against an H2, which is not only bigger but has 3 decades ore development in it. He ignores the fact that when you take two bikes of the same size and age the 2 stroke is always faster.
Scootertuner1000 5 months ago
@BiodegradeableMan Of course modern 1000cc sport bikes beat a 30 years old 2 strokes. I personally am talking about the superiority of 2 strokes over 4 for the potential power production, there is no way a 4 stroke can ever produce as much power as an equal sized 2 stroke with the same level of technological development none. 2 strokes are coming back with Di because the reason they were phased out is no longer valid. Arguments about handling & brakes have nothing to do with the engine
Scootertuner1000 5 months ago
@BiodegradeableMan Coming soon, 2 strokes with DiTech Orbital Direct injection. Drinks less than a 4 stroke, pollutes less than a 4 stroke has even better power than a traditional 2 stroke and is ore reliable than a 4 stroke (less to go wrong) All of the big manufacturers are developing them, even car mfgs. So far though they have only used the DiTech syste of 50cc scooters, but they are producing more power, less hydrocarbons, less particlates and more speed and power than 150cc 4 strokes.
Scootertuner1000 5 months ago
@Scootertuner1000 "Coming soon"
BiodegradeableMan 5 months ago
@BiodegradeableMan Yes coming soon to motorcycles, already available on speed boat motors and snowmobiles, it's not a huge jump from snowmobiles to bikes.
Scootertuner1000 5 months ago
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@Scootertuner1000 Don't hold your breath!
BiodegradeableMan 5 months ago
@BiodegradeableMan reputation is 40 years old
Scootertuner1000 5 months ago
@Scootertuner1000 Tradition is much older, shall we burn a witch today?
BiodegradeableMan 5 months ago
@BiodegradeableMan compare apples to apples; compare two 500 cc bikes one 2 stroke and one 4. Who's going to win that race? You keep on banging on about 100 bikes, but you are ignoring that you need a 100% displacement advantage to be able to run with 2 strokes. A 500cc 4 stroke can't even get close to a 500cc 2 stroke, even with 25 years of extra development.
Scootertuner1000 5 months ago
@BiodegradeableMan Only if she floats, if she sinks, then she wasn't a witch
Scootertuner1000 5 months ago
@Scootertuner1000 True and shes dead, a bit like 70's two-strokes. Don't get me wrong i can get all nostalgic but in reality an H2 whilst it was fun does not compete with a modern sports machine. Do you really think a STOCK H2 can run with an R1?
BiodegradeableMan 5 months ago
@BiodegradeableMan Of course it can't, there are 3 decades worth of development more than on an H2 compare apples to apples. 70s 2 strokes are of course long gone, but you should be comparing like with like.
The last 2 strokes were the Aprilia RS250 which put out 64hp and had a top speed of 134ph (1mph slower than a Z1 900cc) The 4 stroke competition would be maybe a CBR250RR with 45hp and 115mph top speed. Even with 4 cylinders compared to the 2 stroke's V-twin the Aprilia romps home.
Scootertuner1000 5 months ago
@BiodegradeableMan No I don't think an H2 can run with an R1, I never said that, you are missing the point. Compare apples to apples. Compare two bikes from time with the same size engines. The last available road going 2 stroke was the Aprilia RS250, nothing in the 250cc class with a 4 stroke motor could even get near it, not even the 400s could, you needed a 600 to be able to beat it and as soon as it got twisty the Aprilia romped home because it was much lighter w modern brakes & frame
Scootertuner1000 5 months ago
@BiodegradeableMan You see to be deliberately missing the point. Compare apples to apples, same size engines and same level of technological development not 35 year old 750 against a brand new 1000. i.e. RG500 vs CBX550 or RD350YPVS vs Honda CB350 or RD500LC YPVS against XJ550. They are all bikes of the same size (near enough) every tie the 2 stroke trounces the 4 stroke. I a not under any illusions, there is no way in hell a STOCK H2 can stay with an R1, but I have never said that.
Scootertuner1000 5 months ago
@Renceau The engine doesn't dictate the ability of a bike to turn and stop the chassis and brakes do.
Scootertuner1000 5 months ago
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@Scootertuner1000 Did I ever say that?
Renceau 5 months ago