LDS Church Targeted in L.A. For Funding "Yes on 8" Campaign

[mmoorrlloocckk1]

The Chuch of Jesus Christ of Later day Saints is right. Gays are wrong. period

[TaneishaRed1990]

@mmoorrlloocckk1 duh, that's just dumb. Saying gays are wrong makes as much sense as telling black people they are wrong to be black. Being a minority doesn't require moral judgment. Sexual orientation isn't a moral issue either. It just is. Just because you weren't born gay doesn't mean you have the right to bash them as a straight person.  Idiots like you sicken me. Go back into your hole.

[mmoorrlloocckk1]

@TaneishaRed1990 no saying gays are wrong is absolutly nothing like saying blacks are wrong. no one is born gay and gay is not a race dumb ass.

[TaneishaRed1990]

@mmoorrlloocckk1 dumbass, people ARE born gay, and science has proved it decades ago. I guess you didn't hear about that in your church? There is no proof that sexual orientation is a choice, and there is considerable proof that you cannot change your sexual orientation. On the other hand, you CAN change your gender. Do you think much?

[TaneishaRed1990]

@mmoorrlloocckk1 if being black and being gay aren't similar, then how come Wanda Sykes has said it was far more difficult to be a lesbian than it is being black? If she had a choice, then why didn't she "decide" to be straight, since she says it's so difficult? And, why do most job applications equate sexual orientation, race and gender? They do not discriminate on the basis of race, sexual orientation or gender for a reason. None of these are a choice, except for gender.

[mmoorrlloocckk1]

@TaneishaRed1990 i m straight but if i really wanted to i could be gay. it is a choice. everyone is born striaght its just common sence. and all of your examples are a choice. you can be gay or straight if you want thats why there are bisexuals they just chose both . michael jaxon chose to be white when he was born black. of corse it is easier to be black than gay being black isn't against nature.

[TaneishaRed1990]

@mmoorrlloocckk1 no, you are wrong. You could have gay sex, but it wouldn't make you gay, stupid. You'd still be attracted to the opposite sex. Thousands of gay people have been pressured into getting into "fake" heterosexual marriages. It doesn't work. They are still attracted to the same gender. Have you tried to use your brain, at ALL?

[TaneishaRed1990]

@mmoorrlloocckk1 OMG, I just checked your profile and it says you are 26. Please tell me you are a liar, because your comments are those of someone who is 12. Seriously, you are IGNORANT, and I don't use that term lightly or often.

[mmoorrlloocckk1]

@TaneishaRed1990 but im sure it would be hard to be gay cause its not how anyone is supposed to be. if humans were supposed to be homo sexual men would be able to give birth. because if everyone was gay no more babies would ever be born.

[TaneishaRed1990]

@mmoorrlloocckk1 excuse me, but your comment was idiotic. Yes, people were MEANT to be gay, dumbass. That's why gay people have always been here in every culture and every time period. Did you ever stop to wonder why animals are also homosexual? 7000 species of animals exhibit homosexual pairings, often for life. Also, gay people CAN have babies, you stupid idiot. Do you want me to introduce you to a pregnant lesbian?

[TaneishaRed1990]

@mmoorrlloocckk1 the church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is a cult, not a valid religion. PERIOD!

[chunkyloverv]

Wow, a Michael Moore, and that guy Justin Bier...names today are converging like no other =D

[ConnorChubbs]

idk about you but mormons Rock!!

[amsterdammed71]

typical self-pitying followers of christ, who can't take any protest or face the consequences for interfering in ther lives of other people. The difference is : the gay protesters went no further than the front door of that ridiculous building. The mormon 'church' invaded the very private and intimate affairs of people it didn't know.

I wonder when its idiot elders will have another revelation like they did 30 years ago, when they suddenly decided black people weren't satans army after all?

[CHARESTHEHAMER]

"typical self-pitying followers of christ, who can't take any protest or face the consequences for interfering in ther lives of other people."

Yeah whatever nero.

[amsterdammed71]

yes, but arguably, the need to feel imagined persecution gives such people a share in Calvary. The supposed Jesus did say in Matt 10:22, that his followers could expect hatred for their ridiculous, bigoted, sectarian beliefs. History will ensure they are treated with the same level of contempt as we now see those who called for segregation back in the day.

[CHARESTHEHAMER]

WTF?

Are you seriously trying to bring back to life an arguement you lost months ago?

[cwood4ever]

Look at the evil! We expect god to protect us from terrorists. but we love evil. hmmmmm

[TheCaptBloodloss]

Gay Marriage... that's so gay.

[chrisehogan]

guerillaunit18, a gay man helped me get a job with the army. A lesbian trained me to be a soldier. A gay man led the first battle in the war on terror to retake flight 93, probably saving the White House. A gay man was the first to make the ultimate sacrifice in Afghanistan. A gay man composed The Nut Cracker. A gay man Wrote the first book on Army Disciple in the winter at Valley Forge. Shall I go on and on? Do you just CARRY Bill O'Reilly his luffas or do you EAT them too?

[eVVVVV]

Wow! Bravo chrisehogan!

[mockingyouingeneral]

I'm not sure how all of these facts that you cite are relevant to the issue of gay marriage. Are we suppose to thank the gay community for acts of heroism, creativity etc? Being gay has nothing to do with courage and art--- being gay is a sexual choice. It would be like thanking the color green because I saved a young man's life wearing my favorite green sweater.

[chrisehogan]

devi8tour, before you guys started your media blitz machine, a majority of california voters approved of same sex marriage. Why couldn't you just repect their wishes if the MAJORITY should define an institution? You sent money to promote lies and hatred of gays and you, devi, should be ashamed of yourself and as a religious person YOU have a lot of soul searching to do with YOUR creator. And to think I've been defending Mormons like you from bigotry and you go and do this?

[gorrillaunit18]

This is what gay people do to the world. ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!!! They're freaking weird...

[eVVVVV]

devi8tour "But seriously, the "Human Overpopulation" argument you gave for your justification of homosexuality, was the most absurd thing I have heard in a long time."

The reason it's absurd is because that's what YOU read into it!

Your kind like to link gays with 'destruction' and 'culture of death' and who knows what. I just presented evidence of the consequences of heterosex to show the hypocrisy of the smear campaigns against gays.

As for overpopulation, read the experts on the subject!

[devi8tour]

what are you talking about?I have not linked gays with "destruction" or a "culture of death".SOunds like your over-eager defense mechanism s kicking again.

Doesn't matter how I read into it -it's either absurd or it's not.Truth is independent of what people think it.

The "experts" used to also think the world was not round. I've read what the "experts" have said -and they are far more pessimistic than the orphans that I served in Tanzania, who were crammed, 40 into a 20foot square living quarter

[chrisehogan]

devi8tour,

Your "church" isn't just defending a principle, it is trying to make it the law of the land. The constitution gives us all certain rights.You have every right to BELIEVE that homosexuality is a abomination and that gays should be stoned to death, but you do NOT have the right to make your beliefs the law of the land. The mormon church found that out with polygamy, didn't it? Anyway, we don't need to sue any churches that hate us because we already have churches that accept us.

[devi8tour]

This seems to be a common theme, that those defending homosexuality have a very distorted view of the LDS church. Don't know what book you've been reading, but no where in the Church of Jesus Christ does it permit the stoning of those practicing homosexuality.

The church doesn't hate you. We love you as children of God.

The church has not MADE it's beliefs the law of the land; votes did. You presented your argument, others presented theirs, and the people voted. Votes create laws.

[eVVVVV]

devi8tour "The church has not MADE it's beliefs the law of the land; votes did. You presented your argument, others presented theirs, and the people voted."

You act like LDS didn't do anything significant to deny/prevent/remove a CIVIL RIGHT of marriage to lawful citizens. They were 2% of CA population. They raised somewhere between 40-70% of the money to pass prop 8.

But there's more; google-> dailykos (update w/ video X2 + Darcy Burner) Prop 8: DEVASTATING internal memo from the LDS Church

[devi8tour]

you act like the church had no right to do what it did. Like it broke a law of some kind. It did what it could to protect it's beliefs, which is what you would have done had you the organisational backing. That's the strength of a faithful following. They believe in something and will sacrifice all they can to the pursuit of it.And you would do (and have done) the same. The general consensus opposes your view. It is clearly not a CIVIL RIGHT for those considering themselves to be gay to marry

[eVVVVV]

devi8tour "you act like the church had no right to do what it did. Like it broke a law of some kind."

Well yes it seems LDS broke tax law.

And isn't it illegal to conspire to deny CIVIL RIGHTS to people. That's just what the mormons and catholics did when they got together to fight LEGAL gay marriage 11 years ago. And if you didn't know, marriage is a civil right.

[eVVVVV]

Church members are political and monetary assets of the organization in deed, even if not on church tax forms.

IRS Tax complaint file name "f13909.pdf"

***Organization is involved in a political campaign

***Organization is engaged in excessive lobbying activities

***Income/assets are being used to support illegal or terrorist activities

Seems excessive and illegal to deny/prevent/remove the CIVIL RIGHT of marriage from lawful citizens. And especially heinous if it's through the law.

[eVVVVV]

devi8tour "It [the church] did what it could to protect it's beliefs, which is what you would have done had you the organisational backing."

The blind arrogance of the church and your position is that you went FAR beyond "protecting" the beliefs that you are so addicted to. You could have "protected" among your own followers in their own lives.

Instead your kind worked to prevent a CIVIL RIGHT of marriage and your FORCED your will on people outside your church and indeed on the country!!!!!!

[devi8tour]

If same sex marriages were legalized, then hostilities against the church would triple, as fundamental principles of the church would then oppose the state. No wonder the LDS church and, many other churches have defended the principle so readily. Don't know why people can't see that. The church, as always, is promoting peace.

Everything the pro-homosexuals are calling the church, are what they are themselves. Bigots, Haters etc.The church is only defending a principle, but loves everyone.

[eVVVVV]

devi8tour believes "If same sex marriages were legalized, then hostilities against the church would triple, as fundamental principles of the church would then oppose the state."

The hostilities you fear the churches and temples would receive WE have already been getting for centuries because of what 'your kind' still preaches in those temples/churches that get us cast out of our homes and families, maimed and murdered!!!

Compared to us 'your kind' are wimps in the face of persecution.

[devi8tour]

Why do those practicing homosexuality always resort to name calling?

I hope no one is persecuted.

I hope I can always develop more courage.

You clearly have no idea what the LDS church teaches in the Temple/churches. I don't think you could have got it more wrong. What kind of old-school religion are you talking about?

If wanna know know a little about LDS persecution, there is lots to study. You evidently haven't done your research.

Not much to study about LDS church persecuting others.

[eVVVVV]

WarAPeace "You have equal rights idoit, you just refuse to acknowledge them"

Are you lying or do you just hope what you are saying is true?

We don't have equal rights.

[davidjain918]

Get over it! Except that Prop 8 vote for yes. It's not normal that gay people getting married.

[neilnora]

The Mormons are not the angry ones here. They do not hate anyone. who is angry here, isn't this obvious?

[chellebell07]

We are not ever going to all agree on this issue, but it comes down to equal rights, period! If you don't like gay marriage than don't have one, period! For gawd's sake, this is America, we (meaning everybody) are supposed to have freedom!

[Dyoni1]

Who is it you turn to when disaster strikes? Not the gays, the churches. The LDS Church uses billions of dollar a year in humanitarian aid efforts, feeding and clothing the homeless, and helping communities struck by natural disasters. You don't see rainbow colored vans streaking off to help people world wide, all the gay communities efforts are focused on themselves, and now they're attacking a church who has done far more to help the community then they ever will.

[eVVVVV]

Dyoni1 "You don't see rainbow colored vans streaking off to help people world wide, "

Yes, yes more demonizing. If you look around more you'll see that yes we do help in even international efforts. And you'll of course realize the resources of organized religion are VASTLY greater than ours in practically everything. Ask yourself why.

[Dyoni1]

Oh, I'm not demonizng, I just comment on how your trying to shut down an organization that does so much good in the world just so you can change the definition of marriage. Your obviously not going to pick up the slack. You focus your attention on furthering gay, they focus their attention on furthering good. If it came right down to it, who would you say had more right to speak out on moral issues then a church who makes an obvious effort to improve the lives of the people?

[Dyoni1]

But, no, you say they should be stripped of tax exemption and shut down because they don't side with you. That, if any place, is where you become demon like, where you demand the destruction of good in order to further your own goal.

[eVVVVV]

Nope it's just illegal to conspire to deny civil rights to people. That's just what the mormons and catholics did when they got together to prevent legal gay marriage almost ten years ago.

IRS Tax Complaint form "f13909.pdf"

**Organization is involved in a political campaign

**Organization is engaged in excessive lobbying activities

**Income/assets are being used to support illegal or terrorist activities

Seems excessive and illegal to deny/prevent civil rights, especially through the law.

[WarAPeace]

Man, you know nothing about law, saying a tax complaint form proves your point, HA, it's so stupid it's funney. Do you actually read laws, or does the prospect of logic and thinking scare you. I feel sorry for your poor little brain, all alone in the big swollen head of yours.

[eVVVVV]

WarAPeace ; "Man, you know nothing about law, saying a tax complaint form proves your point,"

I only meant what I said. Are you telling me it's not illegal? Marriage is a civil right. It does seem illegal to work to prevent/deny the civil rights of lawful citizens. I think it should be investigated. Plain and simple.

Twist away what I said into what you want to hear. You will anyway. That's what your kind typically does, even in the name of god.

[WarAPeace]

Hello! You don't have any rights taken away due to laws protecting domestic partnership, so you, your taking my rights arguement is bull. You want the law to work only for you, but blatently ignore any other legal complication involved in this. That puts you in one of two groups, either vastly ignorant, or a liar.

I'm not religious so your grouping people into religious groups tactic just proves how bigoted you are towards religion.

[eVVVVV]

WarAPeace "I'm not religious so your grouping people into religious groups tactic just proves how bigoted you are towards religion."

If you are against equal rights for queer American... you are with the religious prop8 folks.

[WarAPeace]

You prove my point, you have to group people together to hate so you can target them. You have equal rights idoit, you just refuse to acknowledge them, and instead want to force people to accept your little fetish group by taking away the rights of others and claiming it is for 'equal rights', what you want is tyranny, not equality.

[eVVVVV]

WarAPeace "want to force people to accept your little fetish group by taking away the rights of others"

You are confused. You are talking about the prop 8 religious folks and those who side with them.

[eVVVVV]

"Hello! You don't have any rights taken away due to laws protecting domestic partnership,"

Please investigate! Civil unions are not marriage even as they try to be in California. Then realize no matter how rosy you think it is for gay civil unions in CA they STILL DON'T HAVE FEDERAL BENEFITS OF MARRIAGE !!! That's over 1000 benefits that only apply to legal marriage. Some of which can come to a big chunk of change depending.

Prop 8 folks knew this but they LIED in their ads... didn't they?!

[WarAPeace]

Wrong, based in fact, look at the family code and you would see it officially accords you the same rights and responsabilities as a married couple. If your not getting those rights, take it up with the government because domestic partnership says you should have those rights. And you still not addressing the obvious infringement on the rights of others, as per usual.

[eVVVVV]

WarAPeace "And you still not addressing the obvious infringement on the rights of others, as per usual."

OK OK ,what rights? What infringements? You have to be clear about it. Which States? What does the law say? Give references and quotes.

[WarAPeace]

The first amendment: specifically freedom of speech and religious liberty. Your forceing social acceptance via the law which makes it illegal for a person not to accept or acknowledge gay marriage in any private buisness, colledge, or adoption agency be it for religious belief or otherwise, extending to education codes in school that require marriage to be taught which violates parental rights to teach children their values.

[WarAPeace]

And I see from your previous comments that you don't accept referances, so your request is hypocritical in nature. So rather then waste my time on 20 comments listing the various sources, I'll leave you to denouce everything as you always have, and always will. Any idot you reads your comments can see your closed minded nature and your presense here is only to try and make yourself look smart, at which you fail miserably.

[eVVVVV]

"And I see from your previous comments that you don't accept referances,"

Wrong. I post references, why not accept them? What I post in comments to videos can be found in a google search. If possible I include a file name.

Like...

Sexual Assault of Young Children as Reported to Law Enforcement: Victim, Incident, and Offender Characteristics (file name saycrle.pdf)

Or...

google search--> dailykos (update w/ video X2 + Darcy Burner) Prop 8: DEVASTATING internal memo from the LDS Church

[eVVVVV]

WarAPeace "extending to education codes in school that require marriage to be taught which violates parental rights to teach children their values."

And you blame queer folks for this? What is it you teach kids about gay or otherwise queer folks?

[eVVVVV]

(1 of 2)

WarAPeace "Wrong, based in fact, look at the family code and you would see it officially accords you the same rights and responsabilities as a married couple."

You mean California?

see (2 of 2)

[eVVVVV]

(2 of 2)

Pinkerton, Doppelt & Associates

In essence, these expanded rights parallel the rights of married couples in many respects however not in others and these differences are significant and have been a point of contention during the last decade as seen in the marriages which occurred in San Francisco, California and then were declared void.

MARRIAGE equality will not be realized until the Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA)is eliminated and all states recognize out-of-state same-sex marriages.

[WarAPeace]

So your using an estate planning firm to try and make your argument? They do not represent the state of california, they are a practicing firm, and your 'quote' doesn't even show up in the same sex section, so now you are mis-quoting, a site to try and make yourself sound in the right.

[eVVVVV]

WarAPeace "So your using an estate planning firm to try and make your argument? They do not represent the state of california,..."

Civil union is not marriage no matter how California graciously tries to help. Federal DOMA cruelly drives home this point in more than 1000 ways.

Since you want to see things your way try seeing this; youtube video "Same Sex Marriage / civil Union" username davidallenlaw.

There's more to it but you get the idea... if you want to.

[WarAPeace]

I agree marriage is not civil union, gay union is completely different from marriage so it should be treated completely different then marriage. I can be entitled with rights equal to marriage, but it is not marriage. Your fetish is the same as any other, it yeilds nothing in and of itself, so fundamentally it is different, and nothing you can do can change that. The definition is different, and changeing it changes it fundamentally, and screws everyone over in the process.

[eVVVVV]

WarAPeace "gay union is completely different from marriage so it should be treated completely different then marriage."... "Your fetish is the same as any other, it yeilds nothing in and of itself"..."The definition is different, and changeing it changes it fundamentally, and screws everyone over in the process."

My-my-my. How arrogant and wrong. Do you have a religion? Mormon, catholic, evangelist? To which faith do we owe your delusion and defective logic? Or is it just you?

[WarAPeace]

And this is where I say, hah, you have to group everyone who disagrees with you into a religious group so you have something to target, FAIL!

And how ignorant are you, let me put it in terms you can undersatand 'When a mommy and a daddy love each other very much..."

The birds and bees doesn't work with gays, you don't have to consider children at all in your unions, fact, hard true fact. That makes your unions fundamentally different from a married hetero couple.

[eVVVVV]

WarAPeace attempts "That makes your unions fundamentally different from a married hetero couple."

Fundamentally wrong in several ways.

Some gay folks have kids. Some before, some during the relationship. The facts never work out the way you want them to 'war'. But you just need them too don't you.

[WarAPeace]

Wrong low brow, some gay couples 'adopt' kids, or have invetro fertilizations, and all others are outside their current relationship and in a hetero one, thus in and of itself, it yields nothing, thus it is different from a hetero couple, thus is fundamentally different. You just try to grasp at straws, trying to make the issue as simple as your little brain can make it, and ignoring facts, logic, and proof. Sorry if those big thoughts and ideas make your head hurt.

[eVVVVV]

Marriage is about more than the excuses your kind make to restrict and deny marriage to others.

People with hearts and minds better than yours will use the Constitution as a guide to solve this prop 8 affront to civil rights.

You might try to read the Constitution.

[WarAPeace]

I agree, people with better hearts and minds then yours will actually confront the issues and make sure everyones rights are respected, while you keep on demanding only gay rights be respected and anyone else be damned.

[eVVVVV]

There you go again warapeace, speaking for the enemy.

[WarAPeace]

If it's true it makes no difference.

[devi8tour]

..."your kind"...?

You mean the "kind" that gave you life? As if there is a difference between you!?! So are those practicing homosexuality a more advanced "kind"?

My friend, the only difference between you and I is that you have sacrificed your greatest power; to create life.

[eVVVVV]

"..."your kind"...? My friend, the only difference between you and I is that you have sacrificed your greatest power; to create life."

LOL! Get a clue. Human overpopulation is about the biggest threat the planet faces and YOU say I "sacrificed". I am not blindly sacrificing the future of humanity through exponential population growth. Don't take my word for it. Wake up. Look it up. Do the math.

Try another line of attack because this one has you looking pretty foolish.

population-security org

[eVVVVV]

devi8tour "your kind"?

devi8tour when I say your kind I mean;

*** pro-prop 8

*** believes that non-str8 people don't really need equal rights and actually believes we want "special rights"

*** that so-called 'Defense of Marriage Act' should stand to deny Federal benefits to non-str8 people

*** that civil unions are equal to marriage

*** that separate is equal

*** that we are a threat to children

*** that we threaten the foundation of societies and actually bring them down ...and so much more!

[devi8tour]

"Line of attack"? Man, you are so defensive. Everything you said sounds very foolish from where I'm standing.

But seriously, the "Human Overpopulation" argument you gave for your justification of homosexuality, was the most absurd thing I have heard in a long time. OK - do the math. The main reason why the world is struggling to feed everyone is partly to do with the unequal distribution of land and wealth. There is ample food and space for the human population to expand.

"Wake up"?

[eVVVVV]

devi8tour "The main reason why the world is struggling to feed everyone is partly to do with the unequal distribution of land and wealth. There is ample food and space for the human population to expand."

Reference please. Where to find this info from expert sources for your assertion and how significant is it in the face of steep population growth and diminishing resources?

Or is it another 'faith based' fantasy from your side?

[devi8tour]

So you want me to find evidence from the so-called experts to prove to you that there is enough food and space for the world's population to expand. Um. OK - one small stat. If the very small (5) % of the world's western population were to give up Ice cream for a week, the saving would educate the entire developing world for a year. It's the gluttony of few that is tipping this world out of sync, along with their "expert" views. Strange that the "expert" views are always western too.

[WarAPeace]

So your agurment is to point me to a guy who for 5 minutes basically says over and over marrage is different from domestic partnership. Duh, it is different, because the situation in different, You want to group it in with something which it is not, no matter how you want it to be, and in the process, it screws everyone else over due to the anti descrimination laws that become applied in this case and infringe upon the 1st amendments. It's a no win situation. The method your using is flawed.

[eVVVVV]

WarAPeace thinks "it screws everyone else over due to the anti descrimination laws that become applied in this case and infringe upon the 1st amendments."

Do you understand the meaning of equality under the law?

Well if you're being discriminatory and the 1st Amendment can't help you... what have you learned?

Do you expect other people and their rights should take a back seat whenever religion BELIEVES it's rights are infringed?

Please give just one best example of the "right" infringed.

[WarAPeace]

Man you are REALLY trying to avoid adressing the issue. This isexactly what proves my point, you don't care about other people's rights, according to you the only rights that matter are gays. You don't care about equality under the law, you only care about "MORE RIGHTS FOR GAYS".

And we both know any example I give your not going to address, you'll ignore the content as per usual and insit again and again that everyone else is wrong and your are right, no compromise, no descussion.

[eVVVVV]

WarAPeace proclaims, "Man you are REALLY trying to avoid adressing the issue."

Quite the contrary, I'm trying to engage you in some constructive debate but it is you who are doing the avoiding. It is you being dysfunctional.

Look over again what I asked from you on the subject you brought up in my last comment.

"Please give just one best example of the "right" infringed." Then we can discuss it.

If I despised you would I be showing you this much respect by attempting to engage you?

[Dyoni1]

So acording to you, gays have the right to use terrorist tactics that are considered illegal and unamerican, and anything that anyone does to getin your way, even within the bounds of the law, is suddenly illegal. Thank you for showing just how screwed up your views are.

[eVVVVV]

Dyoni1 ; "So acording to you, gays have the right to use terrorist tactics that are considered illegal and unamerican"

What terrorist tactic? Un-American? Considered by whom?

What have they done that your side hasn't? What has your side done that ours hasn't?

Your trying to smear all "gays" with what 0.00004% did. How many of you participated in the removal of our civil rights Federal and State level from us? Many many millions!

No comparison!

[Dyoni1]

So your saying you can downplay what you do, but anything else is free game? I have talked to many gays, and none will address the real issues of the matter, always they use the same arguements and avoid anything they consider harmful to their cause. Like how family codes in law require marriage to be taught in school to children as young as 5, taking away parental rights. You deny this exists when the family code is their for all to see and their are cases in Massachusets that prove the issue.

[eVVVVV]

Dyoni1 "So your saying you can downplay what you do, but anything else is free game?"

What are you saying? Do you expect discriminatory practices to remain after we gain equal rights? After we are no longer second class citizens? Is that your drift?

Hopefully, people who are smarter, better educated and more humane will be working this out... in the open I hope, in court!

[Dyoni1]

One: Your not second class citizens, the same laws that protect any group from descrimination apply to gays, so stop playing the victim when clearly your not.

Two: If anyone knows how to make a ignorant arguement, it's NO supporters, since all they did in campaigning was call everyone bigots and liars. They didn't address any issues that have been proven fact, and your doing the same now.

Three: IF you go to court, you will have to address these issues, so I urge you to go.

[eVVVVV]

Dyoni1 "They didn't address any issues that have been proven fact, and your doing the same now. "

Please..... share. be specific.

[eVVVVV]

Dyoni1 "One: Your not second class citizens, the same laws that protect any group from descrimination apply to gays, so stop playing the victim when clearly your not."

Maybe you can tell us avoid "playing the victim" when our family rejects because of the ugly untrue lies the church puts in our family's hearts and minds. Do we sue the church?

We're killed regularly even in San Francisco because we're different. Yup... dead transexual is playing the victim.

It all goes back to the churches!

[Dyoni1]

Then that's your families problem and choices, not the law. People have freesom to chose what they believe, you however, wish to take that right away and force people to accept you, rather then gain acceptance on your own. And people from every group get murdered every day, you just choose to make every gay murdered a sudden martyr for your cause. Descrimination laws protect you, just as they protect blacks, but blacks still get murdered for being black, so your argument isn't even relavent.

[WarAPeace]

Gays are demons? Cool! That explains the blob huge bigotry hanging out there.

Seriously, tax the church? That's the stupidest chant your could have come up with. Could it scream "Destroy religions" any louder. Maybe you can set alight a few crosses, to get your point across.

[eVVVVV]

WarAPeace "Maybe you can set alight a few crosses, to get your point across."

Nope we'd never do that. We might be mistaken for your kind.!

[lylebone]

Voice of "tolerance" by radical homosexuals: "Go to Hell Mormons." The problem is that these people want a one-way tolerance in their favor. The gay agenda is the #1 threat to religious liberty in America today.

Marriage: ONE MAN and ONE WOMAN.

[svenarvidtadhg]

That's right, we tolerate everything.

Except for intolerance.

I don't see the hypocrisy.

[Dyoni1]

As usual the case is being denyed. The point is not, how you can get married, it's how people WANT to get married. If same sex marriage is law, anyone who wants to be married under a church organization can enforce nondescrimination laws protecting their rights on that organization. Maybe you wouldn't, but I assure you there are plenty of people who can and will. This is why they lost, they are ignoring these very real issues and always play the gay card.

[eVVVVV]

Dyoni1 believes ;"If same sex marriage is law, anyone who wants to be married under a church organization can enforce nondescrimination laws protecting their rights on that organization"

Wrong! That was already worked out but prop8 supporters STILL attacked marriage equality for queer folks.

Fear, faith based excuses and fantasies like the ones above played a major part in the hysteria powering prop 8. I think hate did the rest.

[Dyoni1]

You obviously don't lookvery far into the issue, you just try to keep things as close to the surface as possible to avoid people seeing the truth, ignoring all the cases that prove that changing the law changes how things work. In Massachusets it has happened with private organizations, adoption agencies, schools, and collages, proving that gay marriage legalized does infact have an effect on others, and still you insist that these cases don't exist. This proves a liar based on this simple fact.

[eVVVVV]

Dyoni1 "You obviously don't lookvery far into the issue, you just try to keep things as close to the surface as possible to avoid people seeing the truth..."

Sorry, I didn't catch that. What was unjust?

It was my understanding about CA where prop8 was the subject.

[Dyoni1]

That is why it is such a big deal, going one way violates first amendment rights while the others your rights. What the Gay community should do is address these issues rather then deny their existance.

[Dyoni1]

Of course the gay community refuses to address these issues, instead calling anyone who brings them up a bigot and hater. Intrestingly enought the yes campaign was pretty accurate on the effects on the legal system, though No supporters deny this almost religiously.

[Dyoni1]

What the honosexual community refuses to realize it their push is very different from previous rights movement because what their pushing is a behavior and not a race. Wither homosexuality is genetic or not is not the point, as you still have the choice of how to act on it. What they are pushing for is passing a behavior into law rather then a race, which forces the behavior to be condoned under nondescrimination laws which in turn effects riligious liberty and free speech.

[iasinitoleihina]

Thankyou homosexual community for bringing Christians, Muslims, and Jews together, no other group could have done such a thorough job of strengthening the religious coalitions. Now we have a common enemy, you keep stating that the yes numbers are getting smaller and smaller. This is true but it will steadily change as long you keep up the good work. The young people that follow you will some day have children of their own and instantly become a little more conservative.

[ryansorba]

I am going to work day and night for the recriminalization of sodomy. Starting NOW! And I'm a Baptist.

[REKIPS]

actually everyone has equal rights. everyone can marry someone of the opposite gender.

[bitherwack]

Sure, the church is well within its rights...

but they are going to have to resign themselves to getting a few stings if they want to kick a hornets nest.

What is allowed, and what is expedient are two different things. I can't believe the church couldn't have seen this coming.

The protesters are also well within their rights to protest.

[Raymond1967]

JWWindsor - Look, I can only speak for myself here, but I don't have a problem with gay people. I've had close gay friends. I respect their freedom of choice in selecting an alternative lifestyle. Such friends, however, have not demanded that I give my "stamp of approval" over their choice of lifestyle. I don't expect any friend of mine to approve of everything I do in my life. Gay "marriage" is an attempt to get official blessing from the gov't for an alternative lifestyle.

[Raymond1967]

The Mormons had to give up polygamy 50-100 years ago. No one (besides a few of their activists) were bitching that it was a civil rights issue that they be allowed to marry multiple wives. This is a similar scenario. Gay marriage has never been allowed in CA until a state court overturned the year 2000 prop that clearly defined marriage as between one man and one woman. Any "married" gay couples only could get that marriage cert as a result of activist judges overreaching their authority.

[jwwindsor]

Who cares what the mormons do? They're idiots, and so are you.

Gay people are going to get married whether you like it or not.

[jwwindsor]

Oh please, you have no gay friends. You're a liar.

As for an offical blessing...... gay marriage is going to happen. You can live in the past if you like, you will be ignored nd forgotten.

You are really boring.

[Raymond1967]

You're proving yourself, as an individual, to be prejudiced, hateful and dishonest. Keep right on posting here - you're causing people whom might ordinarily support your cause to see the hate from your side, and you'll be losing their support.

[johncanapoe]

I can feel the "love" in his "Mormons Go to Hell" sign.

[scheis123]

It's not the "No On 8" side who voted to take away civil rights from law-abiding, taxpaying Americans.

[jwwindsor]

Mormons are nothing but human garbage.

[omiolo1]

where are the black people?

that is right, they know what CIVIL RIGHTS actually are!

[Raymond1967]

These pro-gay marriage protestors are missing the point. Prop 8 passed because a majority of voters supported it. To suggest that us voters are all so weak minded that we're manipulated by advertising is arrogant. The majority of citizens even in a liberal state like California do not support gay marriage. This is not a civil rights issue. You can't get a driver's license unless you follow the rules, and you also can't get a marriage license unless you follow the rules - it's that simple.

[Eldius]

Game, set, match. Thank you for posting.

[jwwindsor]

Majority? That's a laugh, millions voted No on 8.

Backward Mormon trash won't win by destroying civil rights.

Mormon churches should pay taxes. They interfere in state business so let them be taxed.

[Raymond1967]

53% of voters voted Yes on 8 - last time I checked, 50.1% + is a majority. BTW - Not Mormon. Most that voted for it were not Mormon (there are not that many mormons in California). And since when has it been a civil right? ONly to the left is it a civil right, but the rest of the country is going along with your attempt to redefine legitimate civil rights like the struggle to get past racism. Good try, though. The MAJORITY of voters aren't buying it, however.

[jwwindsor]

So what. We're here and we ain't going away you ugly bigot.

And the mormon church is evil.

And quit using my tax dollars to pay for the education of your bratty breeder children.

And your churches will pay taxes if you creeps get involved in OUR CIVIL RIGHTS.

You are not always going to be the majority. You are getting weaker and we are getting STRONGER.

You evil self-centered little nothing.

[dattexas]

Raymond, it's you who are missing the point. This IS a civil rights issue. And it will end up in the supreme courts in either each state, or the United States Supreme Court, as a civil rights issue. The US Constitution protects minorities when the majority tries to oppress them. This is historically accurate. It's a far more complex issue than you apparently appreciate. Don't worry, cuz there are very smart people doing the right thing. Gays will marry in this country. It's only fair.

[Raymond1967]

dattexas - sorry, there's no oppression here. In California, same-sex couples under state recognized civil unions are granted ALL the rights of married couples, except one - the right to file a joint fed tax return and pay HIGHER taxes in that filing status.  THis is about gay activists wanting to claim the term "marriage" and be legitimized by the state, rather than just seeking tolerance and non-interference in what is an alternative lifestyle. Things are already fair in California.

[jwwindsor]

We are married asshole, like it or not. And we will not stop and we will not go away. Your church may die, but we will still be here.

Your prejudiced attitude alone shows things are not fair.

A stupid "majority" vote by a bunch of bigots does not decied what millions and millions of gay people call themselves.

The nazis tried to erase Jews from the earth and you ugly sick evil chrixtians are trying to do it now, and we won't let it happen.

[jwwindsor]

Tolerance and non-interference?

You must be joking. You remind of racist white people in the south during the 1950's .

You and your intolerant lifestyle will be replaced and soon I hope.

[Raymond1967]

You're being dishonest in your comments. You're using "civil rights" to now pressure people to revise their religion to suit your own political viewpoint. Then you bring up bogus charges of racist-like intolerance because you know I have a point (re gays seeking "legitimization" of their lifestyles via marriage certificates). Civil unions give gay couples in CA all the same rights as married couples. You want more. You want to pretent there's no difference between gay and hetero lifestyles.

[jwwindsor]

Drop dead asshole. We're here, we're queer, get used to it.

And fuck your religion.

You have no point, you're an idiot.

And there is no difference between gay and hetero lifestyles, except that gay people are better than you.

Now get lost creep.

[kendigno]

how are gay people better than straight people?

[jwwindsor]

For one they are not religious bigots.

[kendigno]

Ah yes, anti-religious bigots are a lot better.

Don't you see the irony in saying that you are better than someone by virtue of the fact that you are not a bigot?

[jwwindsor]

I'm a bigot because you and your stupid church took my rights away?

You're crazy.

The world is round, not square. Gay marriage is happening and we are not going away.

Your church will die, but gays will still be here.

[kendigno]

No, you're a bigot becaused you are intolerant of others' right to their beliefs. You're also a bigot because you claim to be better than one whole group of people. My church didn't take away anyone's rights, the California voters did and it happened to be a right that was given against the will of the people in the first place. I don't mind if gays are here, I love everyone regardless of race or sexual orientation. It's silly to expect me not to participate in the democratic process though.

[drewj1969]

Nobody's asking you to revise your religion. Gay people getting married does not stop you from living out your religious beliefs. However, it's NOT okay for you to impose your religious beliefs LEGALLY on people who do not share your same beliefs. That is taking away their religious freedom!

[drewj1969]

Seperate but equal is not equal. It's still discrimination.

[wikedwitch80]

I agree. It reminds me of the segregation of blacks and whites. Same thing, just different people.

[Dyoni1]

Black is a race, hemosexual marriage is a behavior. There is a difference.

[wikedwitch80]

It is segregating a group of people and not allowing them the same rights as everyone else. The blacks were a group of people not given the same rights as the whites. So yea it is pretty much the same thing.

[Dyoni1]

There is a difference between a group being black and a group acting on behavior. You are pushing for a behavior to be protected by law, and what you fail to recognize is the fact that nondescrimination laws will be enforced in order to protect those rights. Most western religions do not condone homosexual behavior, thus any organization that does not support the behavior of homosexuality will be penalized for not condoning that behavior. It's a massive collision of rights versus rights.

[wikedwitch80]

Marriage is something the government provides, not churches. A church may hold the ceremony, but you still have a legal process to go through...I know because I have been married. If a church doesn't want to marry a gay couple they don't have to. The gay couple can just go to the county courthouse and get their license and get married there. It doesn't have anything to do with religion.

[wikedwitch80]

You just said it yourself....the gays do not have equal rights because as you said "except one - the right to file a joint fed tax return." Also, if it were equal they would be able to call it marriage AND would be able to file a joint tax return.

[hairybeast101]

lds are within their constitutional rights to donate

just as the lgbt community is trying to impose their values..

i think that we mormons have the same right too =D