Fringe Science -- iDosing getting, high on binaural beats and becoming suicidal?

[angel4arch]

i use binural beats every night and i astral project every time. it takes times years of practice this isnt easy for every body and as for "science confirms this" they must be doing something wrong as well maybe letting their skepticism get the best of them next time lay the bed and meditate try and put your body in sleep paralylsis practice at it and im sure youll get better results you have to actually meditate dont just lay thier and hope something will happen out of no were

[rdoetjes]

@angel4arch Skepticism is the corner stone of science -- science research on workings of binaural beats are too inconsistent. I personally only deal in science. As a hypnotist and psychological performer I know how malleable and powerful the mind is. Give someone 4 sugar pills and in most cases stomach ulcers disappear. That is astonishing but it isn't the sugar pill doing this, it's the expectation and the believe.

[angel4arch]

wow im not tring to be a hater because he did some research but not enough becuase he would have known you have to be relaxed with your eyes closed and have a clear mind in order for this to work. im sorry thumbs down on this video

[rdoetjes]

@angel4arch Also if eyes closed I listened to several but it makes no difference and science confirms this,

[xenomouse]

Why all the hate for French Science???

[rdoetjes]

@xenomouse lol :)

[arikb000]

To get any entrainment from the binaural beats you need to close your eyes and let go, not to keep yourself awake and alert by moving about, leaving your eyes open and performing cognitively tasking tasks. Also consuming the alcohol removes any remote semblance to an experiment.

[rdoetjes]

@arikb000 I did do that before the taping and nope. I was send shit like "Gates to Hades" and it doesn't do anything, except hurt your ears.

The psychology of expectation is at work here but nothing else -- as a hypnotist I know about the power of expectation and setting a scene ;)

[arikb000]

@rdoetjes I'm also a hypnotist.

I have tried some of these myself (not the commercial MP3s, stuff I cooked myself) and I noticed an effect, depending on what I did AND my mental state at the time. If I was jumpy and it was the middle of the day I would see no effect. If I was relaxed in the evening hours and I used a good combination of theta and delta waves I would experience time distortion and weird very vivid dreams.

[rdoetjes]

@arikb000 That's very normal when you are at home and have no pressure anymore you can kick back and relax. When you (at some level, conscious or subconscious) think that this sounds freaky your brain will fill it in and make it freaky and you can dream nasty. Same as with horror flicks. Also music is great to shift moods have two of pitched tones and it will make you feel very uneasy the rest is up to your imagination.

[arikb000]

@rdoetjes okay; granted my experience is subjective - and so is yours. You cannot explain my experience with any validity that exceeds my explanation's validity nor can I.

As for scientific research, there has been a fair amount. A quick Google Scholar search for "binaural entrainment" returns several results of controlled experiments, most identify statistically significant results attributed for entrainment. One in particular I saw on the first page...

[arikb000]

@rdoetjes states that "... During the stimulus period participants produced significantly less spectral power in the alpha and beta EEG bands and significantly more power in the theta and delta bands, evidence of possible EEG entrainment by the binaural beat stimuli." (I don't have access to the full report) and double-controlled experiment but didn't measure brainwaves directly at but rather subjective pre-op anxiety... not conclusive but suggestive.

[rdoetjes]

@arikb000 Even if you do shift into delta waves then the question is, is it because you consciously relax and doze off or is it the 'sound'? If it was the sound than you would also experience at least drowsiness in a normal state you would say.

Tests done with "faked" i-doser sounds had the same reactions on people who appeared to 'trip' on the 'real' thing. So that really does push it in favor of the age old placebo effect. Like the non-alcohol bar where the students did get drunk.

[arikb000]

@rdoetjes look, I'm not trying to belittle the placebo effect. All I'm saying is this:

1. As an experiment, unscientific as it is - it was performed without the conditions under which it MIGHT have worked.

2. As for subjective experience, it does work for some people. It may be due to the placebo effect and it may be due to entrainment or something else.

3. Binaural entrainment has been studied scientifically and there are statistically significant positive results in controlled experiments.

[rdoetjes]

@arikb000 I have not found any significant scientific controlled experiments that proof this. I did find proof of that the whole binaural things is inconclusive. Scientists have proven that playing a certain frequency doesn't put you in that "state" -- that would be oversimplifying the brain. So many people work daily in droning environments with 3Hz resonances and they don't fall asleep.

a nice article is: skeptoid.com episode 4147

[arikb000]

@rdoetjes Brian is saying that entrainment is possible (there is some research, not conclusive), mental states associated with frequencies - check, although the reverse isn't proven. Getting specific granular drug-like effects - bullshit.

While I agree with Brian and believe the research he has done, I think he missed a set of research papers that are controlled and correlate the usage of binaural beats and a certain result, such as the pre-op anxiety research.

[rdoetjes]

@arikb000 Well that's my whole point drug like symptoms no-way! B.S.! The brainwave shifts are also still inconclusive, I could not find the article you are revering to -- love to read it. Especially when applied to ease people before operation; They used "hypnosis" for kids here. Actually no hypnosis because hypnosis is not scientifically proven either but relaxation techniques to ease kids into an operation.

Well of to perform a gig love chatting! but gotta work too!

[arikb000]

@rdoetjes I am also a hypnotist.

I have experimented with binaural beats which I cooked myself. If it was the middle of the day and I was jumpy there wouldn't be any effect. If the day was winding down and I was relaxes I would experience time distortion and very weird vivid dreams when dabbling with theta and alpha waves.

not a scientific experiment, and I may be affected by actually creating it myself - but it is my subjective experience over time.

[rdoetjes]

@arikb000 Owe and alcohol would theoretically enhance the effect because you remove a cognitive barrier and 1 glass of whiskey isn't doing a lot on your system ;) Also card handling is an automatic task for a skilled performer, we do not think these actions its all muscle memory. As well as the knife 'finger tapping' is something you do without conscious thought. Though on the record I did stab myself in my finger :/ The blade was blunt but the tip was sharp :D

[MeandmagiC]

welke mp3 heb je gebruikt'?

[rdoetjes]

@MeandmagiC Delta.mp3 heet het maar er zijn duizenden.

[MeandmagiC]

@rdoetjes das waar xD

ik gebruikte er weleens 1 voor "superlearning" . en datw erkte goed, of het een placebo is of niet, ik gebruik het nog steeds!

[rdoetjes]

@MeandmagiC Hey als het je helpt prima. Dit is immers niets "gevaarlijks" zoals alternatieve geneeswijzen waar mensen zich helemaal op kunnen storten terwijl ze een slopende ziekte hebben en het niet weten.