Doctor of Nursing Practice (DNP) vs. Medical Doctor (MD)

[quiltndeb]

LOL! Whoever made this is an idiot.

[dma1106]

This is ridiculous and no physician of any worth would think this is a great video,No advance practice nurse would participate in this stupid conversation. Please consider putting up an alternative that smack of some semblance or reality. It is so off base its hard to be offended but if idiots were to stumble on this information, they may think this is true, Sorry you are so sad and m= miserable that you are a hater.Still, Be well.

[wheresmynurse]

No Doctorate of Nursing would respond like this. Remove this video.

If you want to see something "special" look up the rates of malpractice for MDs vs NP vs PA etc. . . Over the 17 year study period, there was one malpractice payment for every 32.5 PAs / Midlevel while there was one for every 2.7 physicians. That is, the composite payment rate for physicians was twelve times that of PAs over the full study period.

[Ouweschoolrap]

@wheresmynurse yeah but thats because you dont get sued over a snotty nose, your scope of practice (though i am thankfull you keep it with that.) Tell me, how does a person with less education, less intelligence and less experience becomes better than a real doctor, a med school graduate, a physician?

We are not a third world country, we pay enough so give us real Doctors not Nocters with "doctorate of nurse pratice" BS title.

[ardruma]

All physicians are doctors, but not all doctors are physicians. Why is that so hard to accept/understand, MDs/DOs?

[acrmd]

LOL. So f***kin true.

[butterflybaisers87]

@limited1149 "Do you want a "Physician" that got an online degree from a school in Nigeria?"

In order to become a practicing physician in the US, you must have a valid degree and pass four separate exams, which test basic science knowledge, clinical management, and interviewing skills. Then, you can apply for residency, and may get accepted. You cannot practice without completing at least one year of residency. No state will allow you a license. So I call BS on all your arguments.

[YouNolesIt]

Only a pathetic, insecure twit of a physician would take the time to contrive such a piece of "patutty dung" (look that up) as this video. Get a life dude! You may want to check your own pulse...clearly something is absent.....heart, brain......courage......laugha­ble...it actually made me laugh.

[brff15]

I guess that Physician's like this will never figure out that the term Doctor does not equal Physician.

[buckhippo]

It's a matter of confusion people. A "doctorate" and a "Medical Degree" and not the same. It misleads the patient in a medical setting to refer to a DNP as "Dr. Smith" unless they clarify to the patient that they are in fact a nurse and not being treated by what one would consider a physician (ie. doctor). No one cares if doctorate holders refer to themselves as "Dr." but in a healthcare setting it has a totally different connotation. And I would never see a DNP when I can see a MD. DNP isn't MD

[tedkummer]

I think my IQ just dropped 50 points after watching this. That vid was just stupid. Even a high school coach knows that a heart that stops is never a good thing. I hope that most physicians don't think this way.

[sashamorning]

I think the problem was more that she was more concerned about being called "Doctor" than discussing the patient.

In many cases, NPs or RNs give fantastic care to be sure. However, the extra training that MDs/DOs receive is necessary for more difficult cases. If I'm at a level 1 trauma center, I'm fine with a CRNA doing my surgery, but I sure hope there's an MDA there in case something goes wrong. The problem comes when there isn't someone with sufficient training there in case.

[pedinursekc]

This is ridiculous! Why can't we as professionals just all work together for the good of the patient instead of competing with each other. Both NP's and Physicians are very qualified to do their job. Let's work together.

[TheUchicago2012]

"you are a very bad person" lol.

And the only doctors that seem to get defensive about the "midlevel practitioner creep" are the ones that are so inadequate they are terrified they'll be replaced by the midlevels. Also, seeing as I refer to my professors as "Dr. X or Dr. Y" for completing a PhD, I don't see anything wrong with nurses with a DNP using the title as well, so long as they don't sign their names with an MD.

[fc75074]

i'm a general surgeon...and had to google "pterion" myself....OOOPS! great vid!

[JoeElfar]

"The patient has a heart... and it stopped beating."

LOLOL

[DreamWeaver1988]

51 people couldn't get into medical school

[arnp88453]

The word doctor belongs to many professions, including psychology, pharmacy, and academics. I've seen the same concept applied to orthopedic surgeons and anesthesia and also found it humorous. The bigger problem is the growing riff between nurses and doctors at a time where neither one can afford to alienate the other. Don't presume to know what all DNPs want. Some of your comments may be grounded in fear and misinformation. That said, lighten up, we all have a place at the table.

[DreamWeaver1988]

@arnp88453 You clearly don't understand the point of the video. You wouldn't want a dentist, a sociology professor, a chiropractor, a high school principal, or a physical therapist--all people who frequently have doctorates--walking around a hospital introducing themselves as doctors. It would be misleading and potentially dangerous. That's the point. Most (but not all) people accept the premise that the DNP degree is legitimate, but to masquerade as a physician is irresponsible.

[arnp88453]

The word doctor belongs to many professions, including psychology, pharmacy, and academics. I've seen the same concept applied to orthopedic surgeons and anesthesia and also found it humorous. The bigger problem is the growing riff between nurses and doctors at a time where neither one can afford to alienate the other. Don't presume to know what all DNPs want. Some of your comments may be grounded in fear and misinformation. That said, lighten up, we all have a place at the table.

[arnp88453]

Wow, is this what it has come to? The word doctor belongs to many professions, including psychology, pharmacy, and academics. The cartoon is cute but thats all it is. I seen the same concept applied to orthopedic surgeons and also found it humorous. The bigger problem is the growing riff between nurses and doctors at a time where neither one can afoot to alienate the other. As a DNP, I recognize that I am not a physician, if that were the case I would have gone to medical school.

[asparch]

LOLOL... "Oh, you have a medical degree?" "I have a medical degree that is a doctorate, yes."

[montblancboheme66]

The only reason that nurses aren't getting more push back from physicians on this DNP nonsense is that we are too busy actually treating patients to care about the nurses using legislation and degree inflation to claw their way into positions that they are wholly unqualified to fill. Unfortunately, I'm afraid that many patients are going to be hurt by nurses practicing beyond their reach before the public realizes what a raw deal they're being served by the ANA and politicians in Washington.

[ATMfromNJ]

58 people do not see how being called "doctor" in a medical setting, while not being a physician is extremely misleading.

[teribunker]

I am going to have to come up with another video i can see. Can you MDs just get OVER your selves.!!!

The real "enemy" is the health insurance system. Lets quit fighting about what we are or what we call ourselves.

Also--when was the last time a MD ever got slapped for practicing nursing. So all nurses, the next time you catch a MD doing something that is nursing (like being nice and listening to patients) I want you to tell him/her to STOP RIGHT NOW you are practicing NURSING without a license

[Wangsist]

@teribunker I agree that health insurance companies are the "enemy". Honestly, most *experienced* NPs are really good practitioners. BUT, NP training doesn't give enough training for NPs, especially for new NPs, to practice completely independently. I like the idea of a team-based approach, rather than an "us and them" approach. Your last point is true: Nurses practice nursing and MDs practice medicine, but MDs shouldn't practice nursing and nurses shouldn't practice medicine. It's a team.

[MsHotmayo]

nursing schools don't even accept undergraduates with a bachelor degree. My g/f took half her class at a community college b/c she thought they were too hard to take at a university. Then her nursing school let her in. How is that smart? It is not.

[LucySchuh]

Fun fact: MDs do not own the title "doctor", the title originated from academia. MDs are physicians. And this is a POOR example of what a DNP is and how they act and what they know. Educate Yourself.

[Michael326]

@LucySchuh Have you ever compared a sample DNP curriculum with the curriculum of an actual Medical School? It merely looks like a Nursing degree with an emphasis on the humanities. While I do agree that militant nurses like this are far and few in between, the title of 'doctor' should belong to the person who is primarily responsible for patient care (i.e. actual Physicians). If a mere title is THAT important to you, go to medical school and educate yourself.

[tesak2]

this video show's how some doctors look down on nurses. it takes 4 yrs of undergraduate, 2yrs of graduate school and 2-3 yrs of DNP training. it is proven that NP's and DNP's provide safe competent medical care as an alternative to a MD in primary care situations. 

[scowentz1]

@tesak2 I am perfectly fine allowing a DNP to be called "Doctor" outside of a clinical setting. But, I think it may be confusing to patients to call oneself "Doctor" in a clinical setting. Sure, they have the educational qualifications by earning a doctorate in a program, but the term itself is implies a physician -- a MEDICAL doctor. The only way I would call a DNP, "Doctor so-and-so," is if they passed the same boards that an MD or DO takes to get their license.

[ryan2g]

@tesak2

this comment proves how ridiculous this whole movement is. Not even close. There is NO, and I mean zero research stating this so how can you make such claims?????

[Wangsist]

While this video may be a bit of an exaggeration, it addresses an important point: Even if DNPs want to call themselves "doctor", they do not have anywhere near the training of a physician. Interestingly, several NPs have told me that nursing school & working as a nurse gives clinical exposure, but doesn't really prepare a nurse to direct the care of patients.

There's a pretty decent Facebook site on the topic, go to facebook and search "Stop NP Independent Practice"

[GingerDemarque]

I'll take my Doctorate of Paediatric Nursing Practice any day over an MD.

[jaimieann77]

I'd rather have a DNP than an MD or DO anyday.

[ATMfromNJ]

@jaimieann77 ok... keep telling yourself that.

[TheCastillo6]

This is wrong. A nurse has to go to nursing school for four years to get their bachelor's degree then additional four years for a Doctor of Nursing Practice. That is eight years and additional more years with hands on experience. This video is WRONG WRONG I have worked many years and have way more experience than an individual that is called DOCTOR.

[JArrexte]

@TheCastillo6 You don't have 10000+ hours of clinical training along with a residency and a fellowship, as well as having to deal with the liability aspect.

[ryan2g]

@TheCastillo6

no matter how much you have worked as a nurse, it can never compare to the clinical experience of a 1st yr resident even.... get a life

[fiveminutewalk]

The patient is dead. Please try to be less stupid. LMAO!

[limited1149]

NO DNP ONLINE PROGRAMS - ONLINE MD PROGRAMS.

Do you want a "Physician" that got an online degree from a school in Nigeria?

Path to DNP - 4 year degree in Nursing, RN license, two years in practice, 4 years DNP program 2 1/2 years in classes 1 1/2 years in rotations and here's the kicker all schooling done in the US. In fact there are medical schools that if you are an RN you can take all your MD classes online and graduate in 4 years as an MD.

NO DNP ONLINE PROGRAMS - ONLINE MD PROGRAMS.

[limited1149]

Wait a second. I can move to Mexico at age 18 and study 5 years total. One more year then a US Bachelors degree in communications and come back at age 23 with a Bachelors degree and an MD. Now, there are some excellent MD programs, but not that many. Most Physicians are DO's or went to a 5 year MD/Bachelor's program in some third world country were if you graduated high school in the US or can read, you are accepted. Why don't you get your own house in order.

[heatherhavey]

I agree with one of the previous comments; Nurses are Proud to be nurses and would not deny it or purport to be a Medical Doctor if they have a Doctoral degree.

They are not trying to supplant or pretend to be a medical doctor, but nurse practitioners play vital roles in the health care system.

[YouNolesIt]

This video exemplifies the the small mindedness in healthcare. It purports advanced practice nurses of being arrogant title seekers. Sorry, but this role has long been occupied by physicians.

In reality, I have never met an advanced practice nurse that wasn't proud to purport their nursing roots. The fact is, doctorate trained nurses practice using their own practice paradigm. This no different than any other doctorally prepared individual in any given field.

For anyone to imply that

[danzobes]

lmaooo

"we have both worked very hard to get here"

[montblancboheme66]

@danzobes This statement is the the crux of the whole issue. The DNPs think that they have worked as hard and have the same knowledge of medicine as MDs- which is reprehensible and absolutely false. The rigorousness of medical school cannot even be fathomed by those who have not earned an MD (i.e. nurses). There's a saying in medicine, "The eye doesn't see what the brain doesn't know"- it's impossible to make the correct diagnosis if you have never learned what to look for in the first place.

[Custador]

A doctor of nurse practice has a doctorate. an MD does not. So if we want to talk about "bona fide" doctors? An MD isn't it.

[DrSuperSixSeven]

@Custador

We’re talking about doctoral degrees (including the MD degree) in the U.S.  My diploma says “Doctor of Medicine” (.....actually, Medicinae Doctor, to be specific). Unquestionably a doctoral degree.

[TheMazeyDaze]

The DNP emphasis (at least at SLU) is for clinical management (as in running a successful clinic). The Doctorate is clinically based vs philosophically based, so that health care administration is run at the best cost efficient to patient outcome ratio. And, so you MD's will have money in your bank accounts.

[epiphani35]

The only way to make NP's and MD's equal is to have MD's attend nursing school.

[Skyetropics]

Oh my gosh really.....pissing contest and egos abound on both sides. No I don't believe that MD's and DNP's /Ph.D's etc are equal, just as PA's aren't equal. FOR FUCK's SAKE why make the nurse sound like a lobbing dumbass? Sickening and a horrendous exaggeration of an advanced practice nurse. I'm guessing a med student/new MD posted this. Their egos are usually inflated as they ride on delusions of grandeur and drink from the cup of "God made me Superior to everyone else" Unbelievable!!

[DrSuperSixSeven]

@Skyetropics

Actually, it’s not a horrendous exaggeration. This whole DNP concept was conjured up specifically to sidestep that problem of NPs not being able to call themselves doctor.

Even many NPs think the idea is dumb, and completely unnecessary. Certainly, the amount of training between a DNP and an NP is minimal. They are both marginally trained in medicine.

[TheChickenman1962]

..

[loganwrestler]

@lacusftw

It really depends on the physician. Absolute statements like "you will never, ever, blah blah blah" is indicative of a weak mind. Oh and your front flip is indicative of the fact that you can't do a front flip and stay straight.

[kleocatt]

Doctors are arrogant. What does he want her to do-kiss his WASP ass? Dickhead.

[JUARITOSWAY]

This video is right on the ball. Nurse practitioners and other so called "mid level providers" are probably the most dangerous people in health care. Its amazing how nurses take a few extra classes and start killing people in almost no time. I guess its part of the "would have, could have , should have" syndrome. Everybody is a doctor until the patient becomes critical or complicated, then real doctors have to come in and clean up the mess if possible.

[hallandrewe]

Physicians are so damn arrogant they think there is no way a NP can be equal to them in caring for patients. Most Np's I have came across are more caring and more thorough than most Physicians. Not to mention I doubt many NP's care if there called doctor or not. I'm planing on getting my DNP but I'm not doing it to be called doctor I just want to help people, unlike some physicians who seem to care more about there title than actually practicing medicine...this Anti DNP shit is getting old quick

[DrSuperSixSeven]

@hallandrewe

Absolutely there is a way NPs can become equal to physicians. By going to medical school, and then undergoing the grueling residency training we endure.

[hallandrewe]

@DrSuperSixSeven lol speaking of arrogant your such a tool you had to have DR in your youtube name...

[DrSuperSixSeven]

@hallandrewe

We think that because NPs don’t have anywhere near the same extent of training that physicians do.

And you’d better get used to this “anti-DNP shit". People are getting sick and tired of nurses trying to play doctor by sidestepping the rigorous training of medical school and residency.

[hallandrewe]

@DrSuperSixSeven I agree with you that Physician's have more training but the point I am trying to make is the word Physician and the word Doctor mean two entirely different things. I apologize for coming off as a jerk in my previous reply I just don't think that having a DR before you name should matter as long as you make it clear your a DNP not a Physician. There are many college professor's with no medical knowledge at all that are DR's and no one complains about that...

[DrSuperSixSeven]

@hallandrewe

Here’s the problem: physicians and dentists are known as “doctors” because they are experts in medicine or dentistry. A patient going to a physician’s or dentist’s office who encounters someone introducing themselves as “doctor” knows that they are seeing an expert.

DNPs essentially practice medicine. That’s what the patient expects. But when they introduce themselves as doctor, they are not providing expertise. And frankly, the patient may actually think they’re seeing an MD

[minutrax]

uh oh. The pterion. Start googling DNPs!

[boatswain2pa]

Hmmmm....nurse practitioners get about 400 hours of clinical rotations during their education.  Physician (ie: REAL doctors) get about 10,000 hours of clinical rotations.

NPs who call themselves "doctor" in the clinical setting do two things: they confuse the patient, and they make themselves look like idiots. BTW - the same goes with PharmDs, audiologists, psychologists, PTs, EdDs, PhDs. The term "Doctor" should ONLY be used by physicians in a medical setting.

[trixy776655]

@boatswain2pa Right. I know many a psychologist who disagrees. Seriously, how hard is it to introduce oneself accurately? Doctor is not an accurate term. All a person has to do is say "Hi, I'm Dr. X, your -insert position here-". Let's practice. Hi, I'm Dr. Smith, your clinical psychologist; Hi, I'm Dr. Jones, your cardiologist. Hi; I'm Dr. Robins, your nurse practitioner; it isn't hard. You really think patients will somehow be misled?

[DrSuperSixSeven]

@trixy776655

I wish I could be a fly on the wall when you introduce yourself as “Dr. Robins, your nurse practitioner” and the patient reply, “I want to see an actual doctor, not a nurse."

[NurseWalczak]

@DrSuperSixSeven I wish I could be a fly on the wall when you introduce yourself as "Dr.SuperSixSeven, your anesthesiologist" and the patient replies, "no thanks, I'm okay sticking with Dr. Walczak my nurse anesthetist." :)

[DrSuperSixSeven]

@NurseWalczak

But that’s when I’d spend a few moments to describe the differences in training between nurses and physicians.

Generally, informed patients don’t prefer nurses for their care. They accept you guys because they think you are anesthesiologists, and are unaware of the fact that you have less training than I do, Nurse Walczak.

[NurseWalczak]

@DrSuperSixSeven Right. I've never introduced myself as an "anesthesiologist" or "x from Anesthesia." I'm clear from the start that I'm a CRNA and I've NEVER had any issues. Why would someone want to have an asshole MD that lacks both a personality and social skills (which are important to have for a patient before surgery) when they could have a CRNA do the exact same thing? Again degrade me all you want but there's nothing you can do about it! We are here to stay! Dr. Walczak DNP

[DrSuperSixSeven]

@NurseWalczak

You’re here to stay until we make anesthesiologist-assistants more commonplace, Nurse Walczak. Don’t worry, we’re working on it!

I never said you introduce yourself as “anesthesiologist”. But many of you do introduce yourselves as “X from anesthesia.” I see that a lot, and I always set straight the CRNAs who do it.

Regardless, most patients aren’t aware who’s a nurse and who’s a doctor. It is by virtue of that ignorance that you get by. Pts who do opt for a doctor.

[DrSuperSixSeven]

@NurseWalczak

In fact, Nurse Walczak, many patients simply assume that the person putting them to sleep is an anesthesiologist. They simply assume that “CRNA” is some type of doctor, or they just don’t pay attention. But a lot of patients assume that, one way or another, their anesthesia will be handled by a doctor.

In my hospital, I always clarify for the patient that I’m a doctor and the CRNA is a nurse, and many of them express discomfort with being treated by a CRNA.

[trixy776655]

@DrSuperSixSeven lol, if that happens I would gladly direct them to the front desk to make an appointment with the physician. Trust me, NPs aren't interested in patients who don't want their treatment. They might have to wait several more weeks for an appointment, but it's the patient's prerogative to see whomever they wish. As far as I can tell, there are plenty of people glad to see an NP, I don't think it's quite the issue you imagine it to be. You still didn't address my point, by the way.

[DrSuperSixSeven]

@trixy776655

Yes, it is the patient’s prerogative. Thanks for clarifying that for me!

It is a rarity for anyone to choose to see an NP over a physician. It’s common knowledge that NPs don’t have the level of training physicians do. And indeed, people do prefer to see physicians. That’s why there’s a usually a longer wait for an appointment with a physician, despite the fact that physicians outnumber NPs and other mid-levels in most medical practices.

[trixy776655]

@DrSuperSixSeven You're welcome. :) If a patient wants to see a physician, more power to them. My only point is that the word "doctor" (even in a clinical setting) doesn't equal physician. Psychologists, physical therapists, pharmacists, and yes, even nurses (gasp!), can earn doctoral degrees relevant to their practice. As long as a person makes their role clear, they hold the right to use their title.

[DrSuperSixSeven]

@trixy776655

Pardon me, but who do you think you’re fooling? Nurses have had no problem whatsoever “practicing” nursing without doctoral degrees for dozens of years. Now all of a sudden, there’s a big push in the nursing profession to make nurse-practitioners have a doctorate. Why?

The entire purpose of the nursing ‘doctorate’ is SPECIFICALLY to blur the distinction between bona-fide doctors (e.g. MDs, DDSs, DPMs) and nurses.

Even most NPs today recognize that the degree is unnecessary.

[trixy776655]

@DrSuperSixSeven I should clarify that I personally have no interest in earning a DNP. What bothers me is that you make assertions without anything to back them up. How is a nurse who introduces themselves as "Dr. X, your nurse practitioner" fooling anyone? But it's fine if a psychologist, physical therapist, dentist, pharmacist (etc.), uses their title? Seriously? It's this kind of arrogance that is causing MDs to lose ground against the nursing lobby, IMO. And I'm not even a nurse!

[trixy776655]

@DrSuperSixSeven It should also be noted that the push towards doctorates is not unique to nursing. What about physical therapy? Pharmacy? They also practiced without doctorates just fine, initially. Why is a DDS a "bona-fide" doctor, but a DNP isn't? Truly, I'm curious. Each field has the right to grant advanced degrees, who are you to decide what is legitimate and what isn't? Could you sound any more entitled? Need I remind you that a PhD is the original doctorate? Anything else is lesser.

[DrSuperSixSeven]

@trixy776655

A DDS is a doctor because they are EXPERTS in their respective field. DNPs aren’t experts in anything. They are by definition mid-level providers. See the difference?

As for the push for other doctoral degrees, I think it’s as ridiculous for physical therapists to be given doctoral degrees. Yes, each profession can grand whatever doctorates it wants, but you have to remember that in a clinical setting it is imperative that patients don’t mistake them for doctors.

[trixy776655]

@boatswain2pa The way healthcare is rapidly changing, with more and more fields requiring doctoral level education, the phrase "doctor" is becoming more general. This isn't just NPs, PA schools (and other fields) are moving in this direction as well. What matters is the person's position. Anyone who fails to clarify their position on the healthcare team is an imbecile. Referring to themselves as doctor (when they hold a doctorate degree that is relevant to their practice) is justified.

[Rich263]

@boatswain2pa that statement couldn't possibly be more erroneous.

[bwilbankscrna]

This isn't funny at all. Doctor does not equal physician. The title doctor is not owned by them, physician is. I guess pharmacists, physical therapists, audiologists, psychologists, and chiropractors should not use the title doctor either. I am usually pretty open about what is funny, but this is just silly and has no basis whatsoever in reality. NP's do not pretend to be physicians, but physicians are insecure about their autonomy and ability to provide many of the same services.

[trixy776655]

this is beyond stupid. i have never ever heard a NP (even those w/doctorates) "pretend" to be a physician. Sounds to me like MDs are just afraid to compete so they try and paint midlevels like NPs in a negative light. How pathetic. But with NPs gaining more and more independence I guess physicians are getting desperate.