Believe it or not goldberg only main evented 2 ppvs with the belt and he lost the second one! After the brilliant build up and putting the belt on him they totally ignored him and undermined his reign as champ. The power of hogan i guess.
This is a great roundtable show, really enjoy the fantasy booking :)
it was just so annoying how they kept on puttin the belt back on hogan and the whole nwo thing which started off as an amazing angle became stale cos they just kept screwing everyone over. in the end the heels are meant to lose but they just kept winning, where was the payoff? they gave sting the messy starrcade win after that classic buildup to the match. then goldberg won it but they messed that up with the whole poke of doom nonsense! ultimately ego's destroyed wcw!
These scenarios really are genius...makes me remember when I watched it back in the day. All of these make a lot more sense than what actually happened.
I'll do one even better. And if someone's mentioned it already, forgive me because I'm too damn lazy to speed read thru all the comments. The roundtable mentioned Raven getting in Sting's ear. How about Sting actually becoming the leader of the flock? The scenario would be great for Raven, as some have mentioned, to turn on Sting after a series of events setting up the match. Why Sting never joined The Flock, or supplanted Raven as the leader will always remain a mystery to me.
oh my god thank u thank u i have been saying it for years KEEP THE DAM BELT ON STING AND BUILD HIM AND GOLDBERG FOR THE NEXT STARRADE. THEY WOULD STILL BE IN FUCKING BUSINESS DAAAAM LOL.
WCW fumbled the ball after Starcade 97. They stripped Sting of the belt the next nite I believe because "Bret" took over the ref's spot. But why not send another ref down to the ring if they knew, fuck I forget that ref's name, was in the nWo's pocket? Hell, I'll do you one even better. Why have the ref calling the match in the first fucking place?
@morbidanjel44 They said that they held a random draw before the main event for the referee and Nick Patrick's name was the one pulled. Nick Patrick messed up the finish because no one could agree on the finish. He had one person telling him to count fast and another telling him to count normally. He just said hell with it and counted it clean. They held up the title after Starrcade and then 2 months later, Bret Hart screwed Sting.
@ackattack1002 All in all, Sting should have kicked out when he saw it wasn't going as fast as a fast count should, shouldn't he have? ha, then maybe we wouldn't be debating that stupid incident til this day!
@morbidanjel44 Hell ya!! The refs name was nick patrick and I've been hereing that hogan had possibly paid him off to not do a fast count, do to the fact hogan doesn't want 2 be beatin clean. Hogan was like that with everyone that he felt was a threat 2 his fan base, and sting was no exception. By the way I liked your idea from the raven & sting angle. Lol I swear we should have all been writing this shit lol.
@Rasuke11 Man, I tell you, everyone that's commented on this should've been writing for WCW. And I would not have had Bret joined the nWo. But the writers at WCW also had the Vince McMahon mentality: The fans didn't know what they wanted. Yeah, keep thinking that assholes. But I always thought Sting should've hooked up with The Flock. Raven as hie lieutenant would've been awesome. And Hogan can kick rocks. He also responsible for the demise of WCW.
Why not? I mean, think about it. Sting was in his brooding mode at the time. He was a man on a mission, and The Flock needed that one true leader. No disrespect to Raven. But it would've been perfect for The Flock to systematically take out the n.W.o. The Flock are then the most dangerous faction in WCW, but disention (sp?) causes Raven to turn on Sting, and reclaim his spot as the leader. And challenging Sting for his WCW title.
Yeah. I heard that. My only issue with that, I'll actually believe it when I see it. However, I will admit that I've been interested as of late. And I hope I am wrong about this, I see a lot of fans, including myself very disappointed. Believe me when I tell you, I've checking every prowrestling site under the sun to find some kind of truth to it. If it's not Sting, a lot of people are going to be pissed.
@morbidanjel44 Ya Ive been saying the same thing lol I will stop watching WWE if its indeed taker, because we see him all the time & vince new what he was doing by making people believe it was sting in that promo 2 get ratings. It's not a knock to taker cause we all respect him, but u & me as well as many other will be piss. Mania will be a toilet bowl if there is no sting!!! U can cash that shit in 4 real!!
Listening to this, I would love to get your guys opinions on what should the then WWF have done after Hogan had left in 92. This surrounds how you would have built up the "New Generation Era".
love watching this particular episode 4 so many reasons...it...& alot of the 08-09 1s make me miss lawrence & his analysis...like the guys u added in his place...dont get me wrong...but...lawrence is very missed amongst myself & others...
Great video, first time I've seen you guys. Interesting to hear different view points on possible bookings etc. Definitely will check out more videos.
Hogan's creative control clause, along with the guaranteed extremely expensive contracts for guys spending more time cutting promos than working took it's toll. Nobody could come with anything new without Hogan's ok and you ended up having chaos backstage as they were coming with ideas minutes before Nitro hit the air. The only problem was, it was the same ideas with the same guys over and over again. So how do they finally decide to change things? By creating another NWO (Wolfpac).
where the hell is lawrence these days,guys?...i havent been paying much attention 2 WR..except 4 the occasional WR viewing on youtube...&/or WR site viewings here & there...i totally miss him...& he was/is a pretty cool/knowledgable part of WR as a whole...
To think of all the wrestlers WCW had, all the talent, all the match possibilities, they were gone only two years later in 2001. Strange isn't it.
They could have been greatly improved after Starrcade but even around 99, even after the Finger-Poke, they could have been saved if you think about it. A lot of feuds had been exausted and 99 could have been the time where the mid-cards would have become stars.
Goldberg could have had his revenge after the finger-poke and regain the title.
Yeah, that's why you've got thousands of followers too, right? I'll point out more of the obvious : You're a dipshit, and can't spell "they're.' Jerk off. It's also "more THAN," ugh!
@WrestlingRoundtable I don't think you're point out the obvious at all, although Leconte is way off here. How can you complain about screwjob finishes and then have Bret Hart come to help Sting? Also, Sting would never refuse to wrestle anyone. That's what a heel champion does. I love the first guy's outline but the only problem is that fans are too impatient to wait a year for the blow off. Other than that, loved the rest of his ideas
@fundyspokerblog I gotta disagree on your last point there on fan impatience. At least for this time period & this audience, I think we all knew after a few months that this whole nWo thing was going to lead to Sting Vs. Hogan at Starrcade 97(once it was obvious it wasn't going to happen at Starrcade 96 yet), so I think we were all ok with waiting a year for the payoff. Unfortunately, it wasn't the payoff it should be, but I think the fact it was WCW's most bought PPV ever supports that.
@WrestlingRoundtable Ahh yes, sort of forgot to take into consideration we're talking '97 here. Isn't it amazing that one screwup by Nick Patrick wrecked an entire year's worth of build? lol
And yet I haven't seen a channel of yours discussing any form of wrestling nor any followers. Until then shut your trap and enjoy the wrestling roundtable.
Excellent scenarios. It's really a bummer that the nWo never was truly defeated because of either injuries in the group and whatnot. BTW have Raven and Sting fought each other?
Wolfpac should of never happened. Savage should have messed the NWO ( like he did ) making them even more vunerable to goldberg luger, page etc. Coming to BATB 98 where there should have been a match to determine who is in charge, simply 1v1 hogan vs ( who ever ) for wcw.
For starrcade, hogan vs hart, built up since BATB. Goldberg was pretty perfect except he needed more good feuds like he had with nash and ddp
Yes, that's what I think is the beauty of the show - you've got wrestlers, people who have worked in wrestling behind the scenes, and just straight-up fans all talking together! Thanks a lot!
@WrestlingRoundtable You're very welcome. But let me ask you something. What match that you've competed in really wore you out? Because it obviously takes a lot to take all the bumps that pro wrestlers do.
the indy scene isn't nearly as hard to break in to today,as it was many years ago.theres local schools that pop up all over,that wll train you,then put you in matches.(unfortunatly sometimes way to early) but it alotta fun,i ben doing it for 5 years now..great great hobby!! the best!!
SOMETIMES he's mentioned NOW, but its also 15 years later!! benoit was 2 years ago,and the wwe distancing there self from him now,is the right thing to do.nobody related to nancy or his son,or even just a friend for that matter,should ever have to turn on the tv and see there grandsosn killer being celebrated.and why would i call you names? this is basically a debate,not an argument.this is canada (or america in your case) and you have the right to your opinion.thats what this countries about.
i CANNOT wait 4 "season 3"...id LOVE 2 see topic like "how we'd 'push' john morrison" (per se)..."best/worst canadians/latinos/europeans" (et al/i.e./e.g/etc)..."'cornette-V-heyman-V-bischoff':who'd- win-&/or-why/how"...idk 'bout u guys...BUT i believe those 1s would be kinda/pretty cool(?!?!?!?!?!?!?)...
Bret wrestling hogan as a heel would have sucked. They ruined ravens character he always lost to shitty guys on those shitty shows like thunder. Then they had these bums like ernest the cat miller
You're right, he killed himself & his family and WE are the pathetic ones. HONESTLY. We should totally respect him for all the pride he's brought pro wrestling with his actions. Honestly. What a light wrestling is portrayed in! Honestly
you still mention jerry lawler even though he should be on a sex offenders list. you mention hogan who whores out his daughter. just about 90% of the wrestlers you talk about are sleaze bags. also the chris benoit i know would not do this. nobody talks about the whereabouts of bill goldberg on that night!
he kept her around for 3 days,planning his sons murder!!! thats premeditated,i dont care how fucked up u are !!he ordered the wwe ppv that night!!! again,to say he was fucked up is an easy cop out!! if someone killed a relative of yours,while drinking and driving,would you say..its ok he was drunk??!! lawler was found innocent,benoit was a cold blooded murder and doesnt deserve to be honored in anyway!! chris killed a woman and 7 yr old he was put on this earth to protect..end of story!!
paul,maureen and sandra,were very very vocal on there opinion,and no they do not agree with you!! as was bret hart,kurt angle,chris jericho,dynamite kid,john cena,and again,no they do not agree with you!!would you excuse a serial killer,because as you said,once you snapped you can go back? should we remember gacey as a loveable clown who entertained women and children?? or charles manson as a family man who loved the beach boys?? do you remember o.j. simpson as a football hero??
the answer is (NO) you dont,you remember them as cold blooded killers!!! just as benoit was!! i loved the man to,when he worked in wcw,i quit watching the day he left!! but you cant excuse his actions,and you cant differ him as 2 different people! just as you couldnt to the other men i mentioned!!a man like that should NOT be celebrated!! not for any reason!! period!!
God dammit no. That question right there proves you're not getting my point. Fuck o.j. but am I gonna pretend he didn't win the Heisman and pretend he's not one of 6 running backs to rush for 2,000 yards in a season? fuck no. am I gonna pretend Chris Benoit wasn't a great wrestler? fuck no. AM I EXCUSING BENOIT'S ACTIONS IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM??
ok and would you say oj simpson should go into the football hall of fame??? no he shouldnt!! when you commit such horrible deplorable acts,you shouldnt be celebrated!! you may not be excusing his actions,but your willing to over look them!! nobody here is denying benoits in ring ability,but that doesnt mean his name should be mentioned in a celebratory fashion!!
Since you haven't resorted to name calling like most youtubers I think its time we agree to disagree. OJ and Benoit don't deserve to be in the Hall for what they did, you're absolutely right. But at least the NFL still recognizes OJ's accomplishments as a football player, unlike the WWE, which doesn't even acknowledge Benoit existed. That's what I think is gay.
C'mon you all are smarter than that. Chris Benoit's actions were deplorable and evil. But the dude was fucked up in the head and crazy when he did it. I'm not saying that excuses him, but what I'm saying is, that the Chris Benoit we cheered for as we saw him win the World title isn't the same Benoit who killed his family, and we shouldn't say dumb shit like he "who we do not speak of" because of what crazy Benoit did.
dude!! to say he was fucked in the head is a cop out!! ok,he knew perfectly what his actions were when he kept womans dead body around for 3 days,all the while planning to kill his kid
!! that shows premeditation,and tells me he knew exactly what he was doing..and talkin about lawler,first of all those charges wer dissmissed,your innocent till proven guilty,and benoit was guilty!!!to say you can distinguish between the wrestler,and the monster is wrong...tell that to nancys parents!!
Hey man, I get your point and this is America god dammit and you have a right to an opinion, however, I disagree. Just because you premeditate a murder, doesn't mean you were sane while doing it. Once some people snap, there's no going back, and any lawyer will tell you that. And no, I'm not saying its ok because he was crazy. I'll repeat myself, I'M NOT SAYING IT WAS OK BECAUSE HE WAS CRAZY. But what I'm saying is, is that the Chris we knew wasn't the same Chris mentally that killed his family
Why not make the nwo turn on hogan and have bret hart help him then lead into something that would make bret hart and hogan wrestle eachother both as faces. This is how hogan had matches with savage and the warrior.
i never understood what they really did with sting, they did this dark persona with him for a year with him coming in and destroying the whole nwo by himself and his baseball batt and then they sorta didn't do anything with him in 1998
Yeah, after Sting came back his character went downhill quick. I hated the whole "lobster" look with the Wolfpack. I couldn't believe they did this whole thing with crow Sting for so long, then all of a sudden he's running around acting goofy in an nWo shirt. Fuckin stupid.
@yul0300 They probably would have more fans in the place than they already did. That's Goldberg's words from "The Rise and fall of World Championship Wrestling" Home Video WWE put out. I think the next Wrestlemania or a future Wrestlemania should be in the Georgia Dome.
also in tag team division which got lost in the mix, have harlem heat, steiners, horseman, or even hart foundation or sting and luger beat the outsiders clean b/c the belts meant nothing b/c they never officially lost the belts. of course build raven's flock even maybe to fued w./ the horseman, push jericho, regal, booker, eddie. do a "shane move" and just have bischoff disband the nWo and have maybe hall, nash, savage, or hennig do a "game interview shoot" and by this time goldberg is ready!
goldberg just gets built and have ddp take the place of sting until sting and luger finish with the hart foundation but not w/o bret starting to do his "sniper" moves on page and nWo forcing page vs hart for title forcing bret vs hogan and of course flair, luger, giant, and sting are in the mix.
Ok, i'm glad i finally get to put this idea out there about Starrcade 97. With the pen in my hand i have bret screw sting but not join the nWo b/c that defeats the purpose of his ref gig at the beginning. hart foundation comes and fueds with sting joined by luger.
Thank you very much, that means a lot! As for the "falling" of WWE, it's not at all, money-wise. Quality-wise is another issue of course, but hey, they're making more money now than they EVER have, ever, so lots of people must like it. A far, far cry from WCW's actual fall where they lost upwards of $60 million in a year. Not to defend WWE, because I can't stand it, just the facts! And for what you mean, yes, we do that show every time out, ha ;) Thanks again
i loved wcw with all my damn heart as a kid but even as a kid i knew that wcw was a wreck and it wasnt going to last 4 2 long the decisions made were horible 2 say the least and wcw shot itself with the poke of doom the following tuesday every1 in my class said fuck wcw im swithcing to wwf and i couldnt blame them
This was a really good show. You guys offer some refreshing insight. I actually think that we might be on the same page, Eric on WCW because what you said about WCW pretty musch sums up my whole feelings on that company. LOL... I was so sick of the same guys being on top, it got on my nerves. But all that WCW stuff you guys said I agree with. All of you! I added you all to my facebook. Great job, guys!
Thanks very much for watching & adding us on Facebook! Glad you enjoy the show, and if you ever feel like writing up your own scenarios, we'll definitely publish them on our site. In fact, check out the "WCW 1998" section to see some of our scenarios written out in detail. Thanks again for participating & commenting
It would have to be, yes, because the WWF would have never blown a storyline that had been building for a year and a half on their biggest show like WCW did.
What does everyone think would of happened to Hogan if he did in fact go thru with putting Bret Hart over at Summerslam '93? Do you think Hogans stock would of dropped so if/when he ended up going to WCW, he'd look weaker than he did?
No, I don't think so. Because I think the reason Hogan got booed was because he was everything WCW fans disliked about the WWE. In case in point, it certainly didn't hurt Hogan's popularity in 1990 after he dropped the WWE Title to Ultimate Warrior and put him over. If anything it would have helped Bret's cred as The Leader for WWE's "New Generation" to the fans. Bret was over, but not as over as he could have been if he made Hogan tap or pinned him.
Thats a good point. I also think people were just tired of Hogan in general, despite him being away from wrestling for about a year at that point. I think the real beginning of the babyface Hogan getting heat was in early '92, when Sid eliminated him from the Rumble and people cheered. I even recall some fans taking Sids side in the whole matter, despite him being the heel. The WWF thought they could get away with 'Just because its Hogan, they'll automatically hate Sid', but it didnt work.
That's why, I think Hogan signing with TNA isn't really going to help ratings rise with TNA just because Hogan has been away from wrestling for so long even longer longer than when he originally left WWE for WCW in 1993 and signed with WCW in 1994. Granted I'm intrigued what TNA is going to do with Bischoff and Hogan but I don't know will this be WWE vs TNA in a Monday Night Wars or even a Friday Night Wars type deal?
Definately not. I dont ever see a war like the Monday Night Wars ever happening again, sad to say. I think initially in January, Impact will have the highest ratings its ever had, because by that point it'd have been a few months of Hogan/big surprises buildup, and people will watch just to see whats really gonna go down. I pray to God the 'big surprise' isnt an over-the-hill Brian Knobbs, complete with beer gut, or a past-his-prime Brutus Beefcake. Lets just see if they can hold on to the hype.
Thank God. Wrestling as a whole needed this shot in the arm and we're thankfully FINALLY getting it. I actually take back what I said about Knobbs though. Despite him being one of the surprises of Hogan and looking bigger than ever, I'm actually enjoying the current Nasty Boys/Team 3D feud, for what it's worth lol
I don't think Hogan's 'stock' would have lowered, especially if they did it right. The whole build in WWF Magazine at the time was "youth & speed" vs. "experience and strength." With that in mind, they'd just to have Bret simply out-maneuver Hogan at SummerSlam 93. That's a fine story to tell, especially with Hogan wearing out his welcome like he did at the time. It was time to pass the torch & everyone knew it so I don't think people wouldn't have bought it.
I really like the Hogan redemption idea...in that blow off match kinda like SS 01 where everythings on the line, you could've had the nWo turn on Hogan when he was the last eliminated making him a huge face trying to take down his old 'friends' with a mystery partner..Warrior..unstoppable team there...but Goldberg shouldve been the primary focus and getting the belt was inevitable, but who would he drop the belt to in your opinion? I know it wouldn't be Nash lol..maybe Benoit or Bret?? Nice show
Thanks. Looking back at Halloween Havoc 98, I think people really thought DDP had a good chance. And the way they built the 'every man underdog who has this special weapon(the diamond cutter)' vs. the monster force of Goldberg, I think people totally would have bought it, so he'd have been my choice, though the other two you mentioned are bad alternatives either. Any of those would have been better than Nash & what they did, ha.
I know why. I'm not stupid. But, I think they should just mention the name instead of treating him like Voldemort. To me that's an insult to memory. I think we all should just keep the memories of him being one of the greatest technical wrestlers of all time. I was a fan of his and my biggest memory was the year of 2004 when he won the Royal Rumble by being #1 and after 20 years of hard work became World Champion at Wrestlemania 20. That's the memory I will treasure forever.
I agree with you. With all of the work that he put into putting on great matches, I think that a certain amount of effort should be put forth to make sure that he is remembered as an entertainer. It seems to be working that way for Michael Jackson so far.....
after starcade, have sting slowly dismantle the nwo. set up bret vs sting. meanwhile hogan screws sting. then sting vs hogan II for the summer of 98. then goldberg vs hogan at starcade.
I know a lot of people will disagree with me about not pushing Goldberg, because he drew a lot of money and is proof that you don't need McMahon to make someone a huge star. Then instead of having him win the belt in 98 I would have waited til' Great American Bash 99 in Atlanta on PPV then once he does immediately have him lose the belt to Steiner or Benoit in a best of seven with him gaining it back at the end that way he doesn't squash all the rest of the talent forever making WCW look weak.
having Goldberg win the championship at 1999 GAB would make him look weak IMO
It was good when he beat Hogan for it at Nitro as he got alot of heat then, the way the booking team at WCW finished the whole run was the problem NWO Should of been disbanded by fall brawl 1998 and Nash should of led a Wolfpac stable which would of fueded with the likes of Goldberg, Booker, DDP and Bret and bring a new era to WCW.
I would of watched a storyline like that instead of being a WWE mark in 99
That sounds like a good idea. I agree with you on that. Having the NWO led then by Nash be finally done away with at The War Games by a new team of young guys led by Goldberg beating them would have been perfect.
I might even used a guy like DDP on screen as a "People's WCW President" and have him make sure there was fairness for the faces on television after so many years of Bischoff being the evil promoter and screwing guys over. It might have even been appealing against WWF's evil McMahon character as an alternative. That way he could have been used on tv in a better way than his poor title runs and Jay Leno/Karl Malone/ David Arquette shame fests.
They could have sold a ton of merchandise with Mysterio, Raven, Jericho and a lot of the younger guys and made their product look as contemporary and on the same level talent wise with the WWF at the time. I would have never given DDP the push that late. Used celebrities in a lesser role. Got rid of Thunder. Never brought in Warrior. No nostalgia feuds. Kept Paul Wight. Tried to get on another cable network for a second show(just in case) and raided more ECW talent.
I Just Rather Change the Venue of the Big 4 as well
Great American Bash-Reunion Arena in Dallas, TX
Bash of the Beach-Arrowhead Pond of Anaheim at the time (now is the Honda Center) in Anaheim, CA
Halloween Havoc-Miami Arena in Miami,FL
Starrcade 98-MGM Grand Garden Arena in Las Vegas,NV
That's my idea of venue that they should look at but they decide to do the same venue for Starrcade (97-00) and Halloween Havoc (96-00) and the Great American Bash (98-00)
Then instead of giving Goldberg the push they did because his heart really wasn't in wrestling.(my opinion) Give the push to guys like Benoit, Jericho, Guerrero, and Booker T. so that WCW would not lose their talent to the WWF. That way you have a bunch of guys ready to jump into the main event for the next year end supercard ppv and the next few years of the company. Any win streak like Goldberg's once the guy loses he's discredited. Also there were already extremely marketable guys there.
Sting's championship ran could have been used to elevate interesting darker heels like Raven. With Raven he could have had a great feud for a few months and maybe even dropped the title for a short few days or month to making him(Raven) established as a top guy in the company. Then have Sting lose the title to Bret Hart at The Great American Bash in a dream match. Bret then could elevate some of the other younger talented technical wrestlers in to the top and have a feud with a jealous Flair.
I would have kept the belt on Sting at first. Have Hogan face Bret Hart at Uncensored in a Dream Match. Hogan loses to Hart. The Outsiders turn on Hogan and the NWO is officially over. Send Hall and Nash home for the remainder of their contracts. Hogan feels guilty about his turn on the fans and then goes red and yellow again for a nostalgia run for at least a couple more years. With the new Big Poppa Pump heel character having a great feud with him claiming he ripped Superstar Billy Graham.
Did anybody else here hate and/or not care about the nWo Red and Black (wolf pack)? it all felt forced and weird, I mean Luger and Konnan on a team....
calling the clique the cancer of pro wrestling . saying your boy couldn't beat me clean nobody can beat me so on and so far and saying a cure is coming to destory this cancer. than you see slow
turn of beniot on the horsemen injurying flair which has him and malenko feuding
you guys really put some thought into this fantasy GM gimmick here, maybe I should wiki who all was in WCW at that time and make up a dream card. I like your idea to have Bret fued with The Outsiders, atleast agianst Nash anyways.
the Hart, Benoit, and Jericho stable if done right, could be epic. Hart as the leader, Benoit as the enforcer, and Jericho for the mic skills....beautiful.
Yes, we did, heh. And no! Wikipedia is terrible for accurate information, at least as far as WCW/wrestling goes. You can find all the info. you need on our site under the "WCW 1998" section.
What they actually did in 98 might have been ok if they hadn't screwed up the nWo division - surely instead of Hogan/Hall vs Savage/Nash it would be better to have the 2 younger guys against the 2 oldies and their respective cronies...
My Starrcade 1998 dream card: Goldberg v Nash (WCW WHC) Ric Flair v "he who we" (US Title) DDP V Lex Luger (no holds barred) Sting v Bret Hart Eddie+Ray v Harlem Heat (WCW Tag) Scott Steiner v Chris Jericho (WCW TV) The Giant v Wrath Perry Saturn v Ernest Miller Kidman v Juventud v Chavo (Cruiser) I would have Goldberg and Benoit win, DDP wins in a close match, the same goes for Scott Steiner who wins but still put's Jericho over who ends up having a great year in 1999
I like the idea of NWO being forced out in 1998 with Hall and Nash making thier own stable. I think after Goldberg beat Hogan on Nitro and the return of the Ultimate warrior wcw should of ended that angle there and then. Hogan could of returned in 1999 and turned face which would of made everything more legit. To be honest I think Goldberg v Nash would of also been a great match if they did not mess up the finish.
What's all this "should of", "could of" bullshit? I've been reading all the comments on this video, and I've seen this at least six or seven times. Should have or should've, my man. Unless you haven't reached 4th grade yet. In which case I apologize.
It's funny that you guys mention Starcade 97', while I have been a wrestling fan since 1989, I stopped for about 3 or 4 years in the mid-90's, just to come back in during the last week of 1997. So I remember alot of about that time, you guys have some great ideas. I think WCW's biggest fail over all around that time was not properly useing Bret Hart, it's like they had all of this ammunition in their gun and instead of firing it, just buried it in the back yard.
Good stuff guys.I remember watching starcade '97 with my friend....and we were really confused on the 'fast count that wasn't'...even replaying it several times on the old vcr afterwards...and I never really got all the details on why they did it...but yeah Sting should of went over clean.
i'm not sure if this is true but a common excepted explanation is that Hogan did not agree on the finish so he told Nick Patrick that plans had changed and that he was to count at a regular pace and not the fast count as originally planned so the whole thing went south
Yeah, how sloppy was WCW? Crap like this would happen all the time, where backstage politics would carry over in front of the camera and result in the fans "wtf-ing?." They had so many good things going for them and potential, but at the end of the day, you need a leader. Can't let the inmates run the asylum.
Maybe b/c I was a kid back then not a "smart mark" or whatever, but Goldberg being champ too soon? No. That was arguably the hottest Nitro main event ever. And he fought some new foes after winning the belt. Instead of running out of people to face, and we ask "Ok. What now?" (i.e. Cena in 07, Taker @ WM, HHH refusing to put almost anyone over this decade, etc.) Just a thought, E.
I didn't say he won the belt too soon, heh. I don't think the way it unfolded in actuality was bad, but not what I would have done either. I'm perfectly content with how it happened & enjoyed it, heh.
Sting challenges Goldberg to win World War 3 to earn a title shot at Starrcade. Goldberg wins in decimating fashion, and at Starrcade, in a battle of Sting, the nWo killer, vs Goldberg, the unstoppable monster, Goldberg wins the title and is the WCW champion and the man with the streak to back up his title.
Meanwhile, Goldberg begins a feud with Raven, where Raven is trying to play mindgames with the silent Goldberg. Goldberg beats Raven for the US Title, and then he takes on "The Dungeon," while Hogan takes on Kevin Nash over who the leader of the nWo really was. Sting and Goldberg had been kept away from each other, and now that they have taken out literally all outside forces around them "The Dungeon", the nWo, all the miscarders, Raven/the Flock), they begin a feud.
Let's say that Hogan did indeed job clean. Now we have Sting, who is built up as the man who took down the nWo, and he is set to feud with Kevin Nash, Scott Hall and the like until about Hog Wild. Hogan is off to do battle with Bret Hart/the Dungeon, and jobs clean to Bret.
I agree with almost everything Lawrence said and also Eric, your view on Wrath, but no 10-on-10. Too many people for the spots needed. All have to say about this season is, THAT WAS A FAST COUNT!
Well, if you read everything I had planned, you might change your mind ;) ha, but the gist of it is that since the very existence of WCW & nWo themselves are on the line, it's twice the amount of people usually alloted to the Wargames match, to get every major player on the battlefield. Thanks!
Well, with the AOL/Time Warner merger bringing forth executives who wanted to dump wrestling first chance they got, who knows, because if WCW hadn't lost as much money as it did in the next few years, maybe they'd have kept with it - or maybe that wouldn't have made a difference. Who knows :) like you said. Thanks!
I want to go to this show and scream Chris Benoit over and over until they find a security guard big enough to remove me
Albinoafroman316 1 month ago
Believe it or not goldberg only main evented 2 ppvs with the belt and he lost the second one! After the brilliant build up and putting the belt on him they totally ignored him and undermined his reign as champ. The power of hogan i guess.
This is a great roundtable show, really enjoy the fantasy booking :)
Live4Ever329 5 months ago
We need another one of these..."what should TNA have done once Kurt Angle had signed"
XCQTE 10 months ago
@XCQTE Oh no before that. What should TNA have done once Christian came over?
keh678 2 months ago
NWO should have only let wwf wrestlers in and kept it to about 5 -6 people at the most.
okrabay 10 months ago
it was just so annoying how they kept on puttin the belt back on hogan and the whole nwo thing which started off as an amazing angle became stale cos they just kept screwing everyone over. in the end the heels are meant to lose but they just kept winning, where was the payoff? they gave sting the messy starrcade win after that classic buildup to the match. then goldberg won it but they messed that up with the whole poke of doom nonsense! ultimately ego's destroyed wcw!
PeteMcD923 10 months ago
Simple...stop letting Hogan call the shots and WCW still might be going today
DaManEX1983 11 months ago 3
@DaManEX1983 Not really....how bout a supportive company behind the subsidiary.
ak47523 9 months ago
These scenarios really are genius...makes me remember when I watched it back in the day. All of these make a lot more sense than what actually happened.
Reckin007 11 months ago
Comment removed
Reckin007 11 months ago
I'll do one even better. And if someone's mentioned it already, forgive me because I'm too damn lazy to speed read thru all the comments. The roundtable mentioned Raven getting in Sting's ear. How about Sting actually becoming the leader of the flock? The scenario would be great for Raven, as some have mentioned, to turn on Sting after a series of events setting up the match. Why Sting never joined The Flock, or supplanted Raven as the leader will always remain a mystery to me.
morbidanjel44 1 year ago
Another thing, too many factions after that. And not have every fucking wrestler join the nWo.
morbidanjel44 1 year ago
who the hell is "he who we do not speak of"??
0megaM00 1 year ago
@0megaM00 I think it's Chris Benoit. He also trained in Stu Hart's dungeon with Bret and Jericho.
sskats 1 year ago
oh my god thank u thank u i have been saying it for years KEEP THE DAM BELT ON STING AND BUILD HIM AND GOLDBERG FOR THE NEXT STARRADE. THEY WOULD STILL BE IN FUCKING BUSINESS DAAAAM LOL.
Rasuke11 1 year ago 5
@Rasuke11
WCW fumbled the ball after Starcade 97. They stripped Sting of the belt the next nite I believe because "Bret" took over the ref's spot. But why not send another ref down to the ring if they knew, fuck I forget that ref's name, was in the nWo's pocket? Hell, I'll do you one even better. Why have the ref calling the match in the first fucking place?
morbidanjel44 1 year ago
@morbidanjel44 They said that they held a random draw before the main event for the referee and Nick Patrick's name was the one pulled. Nick Patrick messed up the finish because no one could agree on the finish. He had one person telling him to count fast and another telling him to count normally. He just said hell with it and counted it clean. They held up the title after Starrcade and then 2 months later, Bret Hart screwed Sting.
ackattack1002 1 year ago
@ackattack1002 All in all, Sting should have kicked out when he saw it wasn't going as fast as a fast count should, shouldn't he have? ha, then maybe we wouldn't be debating that stupid incident til this day!
-E, Wrestling Roundtable
WrestlingRoundtable 1 year ago
@WrestlingRoundtable Yeah he probably should have...it just shows how fucked up the whole situation backstage was in WCW back then.
ackattack1002 1 year ago
@WrestlingRoundtable That is soooo true! Hogan would be like fuck now I have 2 lose clean lol. Dam u sting lol
Rasuke11 1 year ago
@ackattack1002 I see. And thus the demise of WCW. Man, I really miss that show.
morbidanjel44 1 year ago
@morbidanjel44 Hell ya!! The refs name was nick patrick and I've been hereing that hogan had possibly paid him off to not do a fast count, do to the fact hogan doesn't want 2 be beatin clean. Hogan was like that with everyone that he felt was a threat 2 his fan base, and sting was no exception. By the way I liked your idea from the raven & sting angle. Lol I swear we should have all been writing this shit lol.
Rasuke11 1 year ago
@Rasuke11 Man, I tell you, everyone that's commented on this should've been writing for WCW. And I would not have had Bret joined the nWo. But the writers at WCW also had the Vince McMahon mentality: The fans didn't know what they wanted. Yeah, keep thinking that assholes. But I always thought Sting should've hooked up with The Flock. Raven as hie lieutenant would've been awesome. And Hogan can kick rocks. He also responsible for the demise of WCW.
morbidanjel44 1 year ago
@morbidanjel44 Sting with the Flock?....smh
k1ng0fswa9 1 year ago
@k1ng0fswa9
Why not? I mean, think about it. Sting was in his brooding mode at the time. He was a man on a mission, and The Flock needed that one true leader. No disrespect to Raven. But it would've been perfect for The Flock to systematically take out the n.W.o. The Flock are then the most dangerous faction in WCW, but disention (sp?) causes Raven to turn on Sting, and reclaim his spot as the leader. And challenging Sting for his WCW title.
morbidanjel44 1 year ago
@morbidanjel44 Hey man not 2 change the subjuect, but did u here that sting might have signed with raw? Everyone is talking about it!!
Rasuke11 1 year ago
@Rasuke11
Yeah. I heard that. My only issue with that, I'll actually believe it when I see it. However, I will admit that I've been interested as of late. And I hope I am wrong about this, I see a lot of fans, including myself very disappointed. Believe me when I tell you, I've checking every prowrestling site under the sun to find some kind of truth to it. If it's not Sting, a lot of people are going to be pissed.
morbidanjel44 11 months ago
@morbidanjel44 Ya Ive been saying the same thing lol I will stop watching WWE if its indeed taker, because we see him all the time & vince new what he was doing by making people believe it was sting in that promo 2 get ratings. It's not a knock to taker cause we all respect him, but u & me as well as many other will be piss. Mania will be a toilet bowl if there is no sting!!! U can cash that shit in 4 real!!
Rasuke11 11 months ago
Listening to this, I would love to get your guys opinions on what should the then WWF have done after Hogan had left in 92. This surrounds how you would have built up the "New Generation Era".
Thank You,
jesus316 1 year ago
What about DDP
ecwecwecw1 1 year ago
I miss the Wrestling Roundtable!
ladykiller85 1 year ago
love watching this particular episode 4 so many reasons...it...& alot of the 08-09 1s make me miss lawrence & his analysis...like the guys u added in his place...dont get me wrong...but...lawrence is very missed amongst myself & others...
jerzeefranky3475 1 year ago
Who is "he whom we don't speak of"? Hogan?
Captoon 1 year ago
@Captoon It's Chris Benoit ;)
jerudoriginal91 1 year ago
I like it except your language. Can you guys clean it up a bit?
Mattmannish 1 year ago
@Mattmannish Nothing wrong with a few F-Bombs.
danlfc1983 1 year ago
Please answer me this its driving me crazy, who is the one you do not speak of? i cant figure it out ahahha
Atljlr00021 1 year ago
Great video, first time I've seen you guys. Interesting to hear different view points on possible bookings etc. Definitely will check out more videos.
NostalgiaWrestling 1 year ago
@NostalgiaWrestling Thanks a lot! Glad you enjoyed it.
-E, Wrestling Roundtable
WrestlingRoundtable 1 year ago
Hogan's creative control clause, along with the guaranteed extremely expensive contracts for guys spending more time cutting promos than working took it's toll. Nobody could come with anything new without Hogan's ok and you ended up having chaos backstage as they were coming with ideas minutes before Nitro hit the air. The only problem was, it was the same ideas with the same guys over and over again. So how do they finally decide to change things? By creating another NWO (Wolfpac).
clusterfocked 1 year ago
where the hell is lawrence these days,guys?...i havent been paying much attention 2 WR..except 4 the occasional WR viewing on youtube...&/or WR site viewings here & there...i totally miss him...& he was/is a pretty cool/knowledgable part of WR as a whole...
jerzeefranky3475 1 year ago
8:22-8:56 pure genius
johnnyrainbow50 1 year ago
To think of all the wrestlers WCW had, all the talent, all the match possibilities, they were gone only two years later in 2001. Strange isn't it.
They could have been greatly improved after Starrcade but even around 99, even after the Finger-Poke, they could have been saved if you think about it. A lot of feuds had been exausted and 99 could have been the time where the mid-cards would have become stars.
Goldberg could have had his revenge after the finger-poke and regain the title.
skinwalkerxxx 1 year ago
All there doing is pointing out the obvious. I know more then these guys.
cashfire2003 1 year ago
Yeah, that's why you've got thousands of followers too, right? I'll point out more of the obvious : You're a dipshit, and can't spell "they're.' Jerk off. It's also "more THAN," ugh!
-E, Wrestling Roundtable
WrestlingRoundtable 1 year ago 8
@WrestlingRoundtable haha good shit..let them have it...i love your show....i love how people think they know all..fuck them..you guys are the shit
CQ1981331 1 year ago
@CQ1981331 ha, thanks a lot!
-E, Wrestling Roundtable
WrestlingRoundtable 1 year ago
@WrestlingRoundtable
A Santamaria response if I've ever seen one...
ERIC SANTAMARIA IS A GAPING ASSHOLE...
I love the show.
EyeLuvGaeSekzz 1 year ago
@WrestlingRoundtable I don't think you're point out the obvious at all, although Leconte is way off here. How can you complain about screwjob finishes and then have Bret Hart come to help Sting? Also, Sting would never refuse to wrestle anyone. That's what a heel champion does. I love the first guy's outline but the only problem is that fans are too impatient to wait a year for the blow off. Other than that, loved the rest of his ideas
fundyspokerblog 1 year ago
@fundyspokerblog I gotta disagree on your last point there on fan impatience. At least for this time period & this audience, I think we all knew after a few months that this whole nWo thing was going to lead to Sting Vs. Hogan at Starrcade 97(once it was obvious it wasn't going to happen at Starrcade 96 yet), so I think we were all ok with waiting a year for the payoff. Unfortunately, it wasn't the payoff it should be, but I think the fact it was WCW's most bought PPV ever supports that.
-E
WrestlingRoundtable 1 year ago
@WrestlingRoundtable Ahh yes, sort of forgot to take into consideration we're talking '97 here. Isn't it amazing that one screwup by Nick Patrick wrecked an entire year's worth of build? lol
fundyspokerblog 1 year ago
@WrestlingRoundtable it be cool to see u guys do another one like this but with invasion
jblive1985 1 year ago
@cashfire2003 your a douche bag
CQ1981331 1 year ago
@cashfire2003
And yet I haven't seen a channel of yours discussing any form of wrestling nor any followers. Until then shut your trap and enjoy the wrestling roundtable.
LastSunrise1981 1 year ago
Excellent scenarios. It's really a bummer that the nWo never was truly defeated because of either injuries in the group and whatnot. BTW have Raven and Sting fought each other?
GoldStandard00924 1 year ago
@GoldStandard00924 Thanks! Not that I'm aware of.
-E, Wrestling Roundtable
WrestlingRoundtable 1 year ago
Wolfpac should of never happened. Savage should have messed the NWO ( like he did ) making them even more vunerable to goldberg luger, page etc. Coming to BATB 98 where there should have been a match to determine who is in charge, simply 1v1 hogan vs ( who ever ) for wcw.
For starrcade, hogan vs hart, built up since BATB. Goldberg was pretty perfect except he needed more good feuds like he had with nash and ddp
ToM2CoOL 1 year ago
Not getting into the Benoit wars below me, I didn't know some of you guys had actual in-ring experience.
Very nice, just as nice as your show!
UzumakiSonic619 2 years ago
Yes, that's what I think is the beauty of the show - you've got wrestlers, people who have worked in wrestling behind the scenes, and just straight-up fans all talking together! Thanks a lot!
-E, Wrestling Roundtable
WrestlingRoundtable 2 years ago
@WrestlingRoundtable You're very welcome. But let me ask you something. What match that you've competed in really wore you out? Because it obviously takes a lot to take all the bumps that pro wrestlers do.
UzumakiSonic619 2 years ago
the indy scene isn't nearly as hard to break in to today,as it was many years ago.theres local schools that pop up all over,that wll train you,then put you in matches.(unfortunatly sometimes way to early) but it alotta fun,i ben doing it for 5 years now..great great hobby!! the best!!
superstr5 1 year ago
SOMETIMES he's mentioned NOW, but its also 15 years later!! benoit was 2 years ago,and the wwe distancing there self from him now,is the right thing to do.nobody related to nancy or his son,or even just a friend for that matter,should ever have to turn on the tv and see there grandsosn killer being celebrated.and why would i call you names? this is basically a debate,not an argument.this is canada (or america in your case) and you have the right to your opinion.thats what this countries about.
superstr5 2 years ago
i CANNOT wait 4 "season 3"...id LOVE 2 see topic like "how we'd 'push' john morrison" (per se)..."best/worst canadians/latinos/europeans" (et al/i.e./e.g/etc)..."'cornette-V-heyman-V-bischoff':who'd- win-&/or-why/how"...idk 'bout u guys...BUT i believe those 1s would be kinda/pretty cool(?!?!?!?!?!?!?)...
jerzeefranky3475 2 years ago
Bret wrestling hogan as a heel would have sucked. They ruined ravens character he always lost to shitty guys on those shitty shows like thunder. Then they had these bums like ernest the cat miller
BARGAIN02 2 years ago
"he who we do not speak of" wow ...that's pathetic. why are you deleting the legacy of CHRIS BENOIT? honestly.
elhombre46969 2 years ago
You're right, he killed himself & his family and WE are the pathetic ones. HONESTLY. We should totally respect him for all the pride he's brought pro wrestling with his actions. Honestly. What a light wrestling is portrayed in! Honestly
-E, Wrestling Roundtable
WrestlingRoundtable 2 years ago
@WrestlingRoundtable
you still mention jerry lawler even though he should be on a sex offenders list. you mention hogan who whores out his daughter. just about 90% of the wrestlers you talk about are sleaze bags. also the chris benoit i know would not do this. nobody talks about the whereabouts of bill goldberg on that night!
elhombre46969 2 years ago
he kept her around for 3 days,planning his sons murder!!! thats premeditated,i dont care how fucked up u are !!he ordered the wwe ppv that night!!! again,to say he was fucked up is an easy cop out!! if someone killed a relative of yours,while drinking and driving,would you say..its ok he was drunk??!! lawler was found innocent,benoit was a cold blooded murder and doesnt deserve to be honored in anyway!! chris killed a woman and 7 yr old he was put on this earth to protect..end of story!!
superstr5 2 years ago
And those who were close to Chris (fellow wrestlers, family members, and yes, Nancy's parents) would agree with me, and not with you.
TehQuestion75 2 years ago
paul,maureen and sandra,were very very vocal on there opinion,and no they do not agree with you!! as was bret hart,kurt angle,chris jericho,dynamite kid,john cena,and again,no they do not agree with you!!would you excuse a serial killer,because as you said,once you snapped you can go back? should we remember gacey as a loveable clown who entertained women and children?? or charles manson as a family man who loved the beach boys?? do you remember o.j. simpson as a football hero??
superstr5 2 years ago
the answer is (NO) you dont,you remember them as cold blooded killers!!! just as benoit was!! i loved the man to,when he worked in wcw,i quit watching the day he left!! but you cant excuse his actions,and you cant differ him as 2 different people! just as you couldnt to the other men i mentioned!!a man like that should NOT be celebrated!! not for any reason!! period!!
superstr5 2 years ago
do you remember o.j. simpson as a football hero?
God dammit no. That question right there proves you're not getting my point. Fuck o.j. but am I gonna pretend he didn't win the Heisman and pretend he's not one of 6 running backs to rush for 2,000 yards in a season? fuck no. am I gonna pretend Chris Benoit wasn't a great wrestler? fuck no. AM I EXCUSING BENOIT'S ACTIONS IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM??
FUCK NO!!!!
TehQuestion75 2 years ago
ok and would you say oj simpson should go into the football hall of fame??? no he shouldnt!! when you commit such horrible deplorable acts,you shouldnt be celebrated!! you may not be excusing his actions,but your willing to over look them!! nobody here is denying benoits in ring ability,but that doesnt mean his name should be mentioned in a celebratory fashion!!
superstr5 2 years ago
@superstr5
Since you haven't resorted to name calling like most youtubers I think its time we agree to disagree. OJ and Benoit don't deserve to be in the Hall for what they did, you're absolutely right. But at least the NFL still recognizes OJ's accomplishments as a football player, unlike the WWE, which doesn't even acknowledge Benoit existed. That's what I think is gay.
TehQuestion75 2 years ago
@WrestlingRoundtable
C'mon you all are smarter than that. Chris Benoit's actions were deplorable and evil. But the dude was fucked up in the head and crazy when he did it. I'm not saying that excuses him, but what I'm saying is, that the Chris Benoit we cheered for as we saw him win the World title isn't the same Benoit who killed his family, and we shouldn't say dumb shit like he "who we do not speak of" because of what crazy Benoit did.
Why can't fans understand this?
TehQuestion75 2 years ago
dude!! to say he was fucked in the head is a cop out!! ok,he knew perfectly what his actions were when he kept womans dead body around for 3 days,all the while planning to kill his kid
!! that shows premeditation,and tells me he knew exactly what he was doing..and talkin about lawler,first of all those charges wer dissmissed,your innocent till proven guilty,and benoit was guilty!!!to say you can distinguish between the wrestler,and the monster is wrong...tell that to nancys parents!!
superstr5 2 years ago
Hey man, I get your point and this is America god dammit and you have a right to an opinion, however, I disagree. Just because you premeditate a murder, doesn't mean you were sane while doing it. Once some people snap, there's no going back, and any lawyer will tell you that. And no, I'm not saying its ok because he was crazy. I'll repeat myself, I'M NOT SAYING IT WAS OK BECAUSE HE WAS CRAZY. But what I'm saying is, is that the Chris we knew wasn't the same Chris mentally that killed his family
TehQuestion75 2 years ago
Why not make the nwo turn on hogan and have bret hart help him then lead into something that would make bret hart and hogan wrestle eachother both as faces. This is how hogan had matches with savage and the warrior.
BARGAIN02 2 years ago
i never understood what they really did with sting, they did this dark persona with him for a year with him coming in and destroying the whole nwo by himself and his baseball batt and then they sorta didn't do anything with him in 1998
Crookmeisteren 2 years ago
Yeah, after Sting came back his character went downhill quick. I hated the whole "lobster" look with the Wolfpack. I couldn't believe they did this whole thing with crow Sting for so long, then all of a sudden he's running around acting goofy in an nWo shirt. Fuckin stupid.
-E, Wrestling Roundtable
WrestlingRoundtable 1 year ago
GREAT episode man. Loved the possiblities. I had a lot of them in my mind too.
Xero328 2 years ago
Thanks very much!
-E, Wrestling Roundtable
WrestlingRoundtable 1 year ago
Turn Luger Heel
Thats never happened(!)
But Seriously how many times has Luger turned Heel
MrPerfect2000Z 2 years ago
id have goldberg vs hogan happen on ppv at the georgiadome,not blow it on free tv.wudve made it more special.
yul0300 2 years ago 4
Because they had booked it for Nitro months in advance
MrPerfect2000Z 2 years ago
Goldberg didn't know the match was going to happen until it was announced on Thunder the previous week.
Jay
Wrestling Roundtable
phatjay420 1 year ago
I know that Jay
I'm saying that the Georgia dome was booked in advance for nitro
MrPerfect2000Z 1 year ago
@yul0300 They probably would have more fans in the place than they already did. That's Goldberg's words from "The Rise and fall of World Championship Wrestling" Home Video WWE put out. I think the next Wrestlemania or a future Wrestlemania should be in the Georgia Dome.
Sweetguy9009 2 years ago
also in tag team division which got lost in the mix, have harlem heat, steiners, horseman, or even hart foundation or sting and luger beat the outsiders clean b/c the belts meant nothing b/c they never officially lost the belts. of course build raven's flock even maybe to fued w./ the horseman, push jericho, regal, booker, eddie. do a "shane move" and just have bischoff disband the nWo and have maybe hall, nash, savage, or hennig do a "game interview shoot" and by this time goldberg is ready!
rock1800 2 years ago
goldberg just gets built and have ddp take the place of sting until sting and luger finish with the hart foundation but not w/o bret starting to do his "sniper" moves on page and nWo forcing page vs hart for title forcing bret vs hogan and of course flair, luger, giant, and sting are in the mix.
rock1800 2 years ago
Ok, i'm glad i finally get to put this idea out there about Starrcade 97. With the pen in my hand i have bret screw sting but not join the nWo b/c that defeats the purpose of his ref gig at the beginning. hart foundation comes and fueds with sting joined by luger.
rock1800 2 years ago
i like your ideas I think it could have saved WCW . do you guys have a episode of the falling of wwe now.
wrestlefestjosh 2 years ago
Thank you very much, that means a lot! As for the "falling" of WWE, it's not at all, money-wise. Quality-wise is another issue of course, but hey, they're making more money now than they EVER have, ever, so lots of people must like it. A far, far cry from WCW's actual fall where they lost upwards of $60 million in a year. Not to defend WWE, because I can't stand it, just the facts! And for what you mean, yes, we do that show every time out, ha ;) Thanks again
-E, Wrestling Roundtable
WrestlingRoundtable 2 years ago
i loved wcw with all my damn heart as a kid but even as a kid i knew that wcw was a wreck and it wasnt going to last 4 2 long the decisions made were horible 2 say the least and wcw shot itself with the poke of doom the following tuesday every1 in my class said fuck wcw im swithcing to wwf and i couldnt blame them
thenightspot 2 years ago
This was a really good show. You guys offer some refreshing insight. I actually think that we might be on the same page, Eric on WCW because what you said about WCW pretty musch sums up my whole feelings on that company. LOL... I was so sick of the same guys being on top, it got on my nerves. But all that WCW stuff you guys said I agree with. All of you! I added you all to my facebook. Great job, guys!
EasyAttack 2 years ago
Thanks very much for watching & adding us on Facebook! Glad you enjoy the show, and if you ever feel like writing up your own scenarios, we'll definitely publish them on our site. In fact, check out the "WCW 1998" section to see some of our scenarios written out in detail. Thanks again for participating & commenting
-E, Wrestling Roundtable
WrestlingRoundtable 2 years ago
why are you soo fkn camp
thefightingclub1 2 years ago
Huh?
-E, Wrestling Roundtable
WrestlingRoundtable 2 years ago
I really liked lawrence's scenario.
DGenerationX4life 2 years ago
really great ideas
vivaladanisawsomes 2 years ago
Thanks a lot!
-E, Wrestling Roundtable
WrestlingRoundtable 2 years ago
i like lawrence's scenario the best
chuck5007 2 years ago
Question to the roundtable:
on a scale of Horrrible to...horrid nightmare...to "drag out the booker/writer into the street and shoot him"...to "scared for life..."
would you say Starccade 97 was worse than the "worst wrestlemania" you've ever seen?
RandomMindz 2 years ago
no, as you must have seen how bad the early manias were. did you see how bad mania 9 was lol
thefightingclub1 2 years ago
@thefightingclub1
I have never saw one pro wrestling ppv in my life...and I started watching WWF about 1999
RandomMindz 2 years ago
It would have to be, yes, because the WWF would have never blown a storyline that had been building for a year and a half on their biggest show like WCW did.
-E, Wrestling Roundtable
WrestlingRoundtable 1 year ago
IMO too soon to tell XD
they managed to make B.S. ppvs what's next?
RandomMindz 1 year ago
Well done Lawrence and Eric, you both put a lot of thought into that. Both scenarios that I'd have liked to have seen too.
fraserbee 2 years ago
Thanks a lot!
-E, Wrestling Roundtable
WrestlingRoundtable 1 year ago
What does everyone think would of happened to Hogan if he did in fact go thru with putting Bret Hart over at Summerslam '93? Do you think Hogans stock would of dropped so if/when he ended up going to WCW, he'd look weaker than he did?
TheMac1229 2 years ago
No, I don't think so. Because I think the reason Hogan got booed was because he was everything WCW fans disliked about the WWE. In case in point, it certainly didn't hurt Hogan's popularity in 1990 after he dropped the WWE Title to Ultimate Warrior and put him over. If anything it would have helped Bret's cred as The Leader for WWE's "New Generation" to the fans. Bret was over, but not as over as he could have been if he made Hogan tap or pinned him.
Sweetguy9009 2 years ago
Thats a good point. I also think people were just tired of Hogan in general, despite him being away from wrestling for about a year at that point. I think the real beginning of the babyface Hogan getting heat was in early '92, when Sid eliminated him from the Rumble and people cheered. I even recall some fans taking Sids side in the whole matter, despite him being the heel. The WWF thought they could get away with 'Just because its Hogan, they'll automatically hate Sid', but it didnt work.
TheMac1229 2 years ago
That's why, I think Hogan signing with TNA isn't really going to help ratings rise with TNA just because Hogan has been away from wrestling for so long even longer longer than when he originally left WWE for WCW in 1993 and signed with WCW in 1994. Granted I'm intrigued what TNA is going to do with Bischoff and Hogan but I don't know will this be WWE vs TNA in a Monday Night Wars or even a Friday Night Wars type deal?
Sweetguy9009 2 years ago
Definately not. I dont ever see a war like the Monday Night Wars ever happening again, sad to say. I think initially in January, Impact will have the highest ratings its ever had, because by that point it'd have been a few months of Hogan/big surprises buildup, and people will watch just to see whats really gonna go down. I pray to God the 'big surprise' isnt an over-the-hill Brian Knobbs, complete with beer gut, or a past-his-prime Brutus Beefcake. Lets just see if they can hold on to the hype.
TheMac1229 2 years ago
Well, half of this came true, heh. Jan. 4th was TNA's biggest rating ever, but the new Monday Night Wars are set to begin!
-E, Wrestling Roundtable
WrestlingRoundtable 1 year ago
Thank God. Wrestling as a whole needed this shot in the arm and we're thankfully FINALLY getting it. I actually take back what I said about Knobbs though. Despite him being one of the surprises of Hogan and looking bigger than ever, I'm actually enjoying the current Nasty Boys/Team 3D feud, for what it's worth lol
TheMac1229 1 year ago
I don't think Hogan's 'stock' would have lowered, especially if they did it right. The whole build in WWF Magazine at the time was "youth & speed" vs. "experience and strength." With that in mind, they'd just to have Bret simply out-maneuver Hogan at SummerSlam 93. That's a fine story to tell, especially with Hogan wearing out his welcome like he did at the time. It was time to pass the torch & everyone knew it so I don't think people wouldn't have bought it.
-E, Wrestling Roundtable
WrestlingRoundtable 1 year ago
I really like the Hogan redemption idea...in that blow off match kinda like SS 01 where everythings on the line, you could've had the nWo turn on Hogan when he was the last eliminated making him a huge face trying to take down his old 'friends' with a mystery partner..Warrior..unstoppable team there...but Goldberg shouldve been the primary focus and getting the belt was inevitable, but who would he drop the belt to in your opinion? I know it wouldn't be Nash lol..maybe Benoit or Bret?? Nice show
eli24128 2 years ago
Thanks. Looking back at Halloween Havoc 98, I think people really thought DDP had a good chance. And the way they built the 'every man underdog who has this special weapon(the diamond cutter)' vs. the monster force of Goldberg, I think people totally would have bought it, so he'd have been my choice, though the other two you mentioned are bad alternatives either. Any of those would have been better than Nash & what they did, ha.
-E, Wrestling Roundtable
WrestlingRoundtable 1 year ago
Who's "who we could not speak of"?
JohnStripedfur 2 years ago
@JohnStripedfur: Chris Benoit and don't bother asking why.
zordon9 2 years ago
I know why. I'm not stupid. But, I think they should just mention the name instead of treating him like Voldemort. To me that's an insult to memory. I think we all should just keep the memories of him being one of the greatest technical wrestlers of all time. I was a fan of his and my biggest memory was the year of 2004 when he won the Royal Rumble by being #1 and after 20 years of hard work became World Champion at Wrestlemania 20. That's the memory I will treasure forever.
JohnStripedfur 2 years ago 2
I agree with you. With all of the work that he put into putting on great matches, I think that a certain amount of effort should be put forth to make sure that he is remembered as an entertainer. It seems to be working that way for Michael Jackson so far.....
logan48227 2 years ago
Exactly. And treating Benoit like Voldemort will just make him like an evil villain instead of a great wrestler we all use to know and treasured.
JohnStripedfur 2 years ago
after starcade, have sting slowly dismantle the nwo. set up bret vs sting. meanwhile hogan screws sting. then sting vs hogan II for the summer of 98. then goldberg vs hogan at starcade.
reh629 2 years ago
I know a lot of people will disagree with me about not pushing Goldberg, because he drew a lot of money and is proof that you don't need McMahon to make someone a huge star. Then instead of having him win the belt in 98 I would have waited til' Great American Bash 99 in Atlanta on PPV then once he does immediately have him lose the belt to Steiner or Benoit in a best of seven with him gaining it back at the end that way he doesn't squash all the rest of the talent forever making WCW look weak.
bytwilight13 2 years ago
having Goldberg win the championship at 1999 GAB would make him look weak IMO
It was good when he beat Hogan for it at Nitro as he got alot of heat then, the way the booking team at WCW finished the whole run was the problem NWO Should of been disbanded by fall brawl 1998 and Nash should of led a Wolfpac stable which would of fueded with the likes of Goldberg, Booker, DDP and Bret and bring a new era to WCW.
I would of watched a storyline like that instead of being a WWE mark in 99
zordon9 2 years ago
That sounds like a good idea. I agree with you on that. Having the NWO led then by Nash be finally done away with at The War Games by a new team of young guys led by Goldberg beating them would have been perfect.
bytwilight13 2 years ago
I might even used a guy like DDP on screen as a "People's WCW President" and have him make sure there was fairness for the faces on television after so many years of Bischoff being the evil promoter and screwing guys over. It might have even been appealing against WWF's evil McMahon character as an alternative. That way he could have been used on tv in a better way than his poor title runs and Jay Leno/Karl Malone/ David Arquette shame fests.
bytwilight13 2 years ago
They could have sold a ton of merchandise with Mysterio, Raven, Jericho and a lot of the younger guys and made their product look as contemporary and on the same level talent wise with the WWF at the time. I would have never given DDP the push that late. Used celebrities in a lesser role. Got rid of Thunder. Never brought in Warrior. No nostalgia feuds. Kept Paul Wight. Tried to get on another cable network for a second show(just in case) and raided more ECW talent.
bytwilight13 2 years ago
Great Show,Great Topic
I Just Rather Change the Venue of the Big 4 as well
Great American Bash-Reunion Arena in Dallas, TX
Bash of the Beach-Arrowhead Pond of Anaheim at the time (now is the Honda Center) in Anaheim, CA
Halloween Havoc-Miami Arena in Miami,FL
Starrcade 98-MGM Grand Garden Arena in Las Vegas,NV
That's my idea of venue that they should look at but they decide to do the same venue for Starrcade (97-00) and Halloween Havoc (96-00) and the Great American Bash (98-00)
DiegoGurrolo 2 years ago
Thanks a lot!
-E, Wrestling Roundtable
WrestlingRoundtable 1 year ago
Then instead of giving Goldberg the push they did because his heart really wasn't in wrestling.(my opinion) Give the push to guys like Benoit, Jericho, Guerrero, and Booker T. so that WCW would not lose their talent to the WWF. That way you have a bunch of guys ready to jump into the main event for the next year end supercard ppv and the next few years of the company. Any win streak like Goldberg's once the guy loses he's discredited. Also there were already extremely marketable guys there.
bytwilight13 2 years ago
Sting's championship ran could have been used to elevate interesting darker heels like Raven. With Raven he could have had a great feud for a few months and maybe even dropped the title for a short few days or month to making him(Raven) established as a top guy in the company. Then have Sting lose the title to Bret Hart at The Great American Bash in a dream match. Bret then could elevate some of the other younger talented technical wrestlers in to the top and have a feud with a jealous Flair.
bytwilight13 2 years ago
I would have kept the belt on Sting at first. Have Hogan face Bret Hart at Uncensored in a Dream Match. Hogan loses to Hart. The Outsiders turn on Hogan and the NWO is officially over. Send Hall and Nash home for the remainder of their contracts. Hogan feels guilty about his turn on the fans and then goes red and yellow again for a nostalgia run for at least a couple more years. With the new Big Poppa Pump heel character having a great feud with him claiming he ripped Superstar Billy Graham.
bytwilight13 2 years ago
Did anybody else here hate and/or not care about the nWo Red and Black (wolf pack)? it all felt forced and weird, I mean Luger and Konnan on a team....
DeathAdder83 2 years ago
That would be me, heh. Never cared for or liked a babyface nWo faction, especially with a red crow Sting & Luger trying to act "hip," heh.
-E, Wrestling Roundtable
WrestlingRoundtable 1 year ago
Thats love this show
damn lewerence said excatly
what been saying with the bret concept
But I have him ripping on Hall and Nash
calling the clique the cancer of pro wrestling . saying your boy couldn't beat me clean nobody can beat me so on and so far and saying a cure is coming to destory this cancer. than you see slow
turn of beniot on the horsemen injurying flair which has him and malenko feuding
and Jericho joins the nwo as bret's spy
to cause friction.
TruStory007 2 years ago
you guys really put some thought into this fantasy GM gimmick here, maybe I should wiki who all was in WCW at that time and make up a dream card. I like your idea to have Bret fued with The Outsiders, atleast agianst Nash anyways.
the Hart, Benoit, and Jericho stable if done right, could be epic. Hart as the leader, Benoit as the enforcer, and Jericho for the mic skills....beautiful.
DeathAdder83 2 years ago
Yes, we did, heh. And no! Wikipedia is terrible for accurate information, at least as far as WCW/wrestling goes. You can find all the info. you need on our site under the "WCW 1998" section.
-E
WrestlingRoundtable 1 year ago
Thanks!
-E, Wrestling Roundtable
WrestlingRoundtable 1 year ago
What they actually did in 98 might have been ok if they hadn't screwed up the nWo division - surely instead of Hogan/Hall vs Savage/Nash it would be better to have the 2 younger guys against the 2 oldies and their respective cronies...
NoBrianNoGain 2 years ago
zordon9 2 years ago
I like the idea of NWO being forced out in 1998 with Hall and Nash making thier own stable. I think after Goldberg beat Hogan on Nitro and the return of the Ultimate warrior wcw should of ended that angle there and then. Hogan could of returned in 1999 and turned face which would of made everything more legit. To be honest I think Goldberg v Nash would of also been a great match if they did not mess up the finish.
zordon9 2 years ago
What's all this "should of", "could of" bullshit? I've been reading all the comments on this video, and I've seen this at least six or seven times. Should have or should've, my man. Unless you haven't reached 4th grade yet. In which case I apologize.
Smackdaknife 2 years ago
It's funny that you guys mention Starcade 97', while I have been a wrestling fan since 1989, I stopped for about 3 or 4 years in the mid-90's, just to come back in during the last week of 1997. So I remember alot of about that time, you guys have some great ideas. I think WCW's biggest fail over all around that time was not properly useing Bret Hart, it's like they had all of this ammunition in their gun and instead of firing it, just buried it in the back yard.
DeathAdder83 2 years ago
Thanks!
-E, Wrestling Roundtable
WrestlingRoundtable 1 year ago
if only you guys were doing the writing for wcw at that time, hell u should write for TNA the new wcw now lol
sickdaddy12 2 years ago
Thanks! And right? We should :) ha. It'd make a fuck of a lot more sense, I'll tell you that much!
-E, Wrestling Roundtable
WrestlingRoundtable 1 year ago
Anyone think Eric Santamaria could pass for the bastard son of Bob Saget and Steven Segal?
ilovethe80sdude 2 years ago 4
Real super "Thanks" to everyone who thumbs upped this, really helped my self esteem.
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WrestlingRoundtable 1 year ago
This topic has to be continued. You guys should probably explain how you would book every pay per view up to starrcade 98.
Tajier56 2 years ago
If you got our website, you can find extended elaborations on our ideas under the "WCW 1998" section. Thanks!
-E, Wrestling Roundtable
WrestlingRoundtable 1 year ago
Maybe we'll go onto the message board and post our more detailed booking notes
shanehagadorn 2 years ago
Chris Benoit
7Rayo13 2 years ago
Oh erc, i want to see that chart, lol. You would be a very good booker.
roh1234 2 years ago
You can read it on our website! Thanks, I'm glad someone thinks so!
-E, Wrestling Roundtable
WrestlingRoundtable 1 year ago
Cool, whereabouts my man, i think it will make my day, lol. To be fair you guys are probably the best wretling 'reviewers' on the web.
roh1234 1 year ago
They should of but WCW out of business then... They would of gone bankrupt regardless.
roh1234 2 years ago
Good stuff guys.I remember watching starcade '97 with my friend....and we were really confused on the 'fast count that wasn't'...even replaying it several times on the old vcr afterwards...and I never really got all the details on why they did it...but yeah Sting should of went over clean.
ShawnVanAngle 2 years ago
i'm not sure if this is true but a common excepted explanation is that Hogan did not agree on the finish so he told Nick Patrick that plans had changed and that he was to count at a regular pace and not the fast count as originally planned so the whole thing went south
7Rayo13 2 years ago
Yeah, how sloppy was WCW? Crap like this would happen all the time, where backstage politics would carry over in front of the camera and result in the fans "wtf-ing?." They had so many good things going for them and potential, but at the end of the day, you need a leader. Can't let the inmates run the asylum.
Smackdaknife 2 years ago
Thanks!
-E, Wrestling Roundtable
WrestlingRoundtable 1 year ago
Maybe b/c I was a kid back then not a "smart mark" or whatever, but Goldberg being champ too soon? No. That was arguably the hottest Nitro main event ever. And he fought some new foes after winning the belt. Instead of running out of people to face, and we ask "Ok. What now?" (i.e. Cena in 07, Taker @ WM, HHH refusing to put almost anyone over this decade, etc.) Just a thought, E.
gabynum1919 2 years ago
I didn't say he won the belt too soon, heh. I don't think the way it unfolded in actuality was bad, but not what I would have done either. I'm perfectly content with how it happened & enjoyed it, heh.
-E, Wrestling Roundtable
WrestlingRoundtable 1 year ago
Sting challenges Goldberg to win World War 3 to earn a title shot at Starrcade. Goldberg wins in decimating fashion, and at Starrcade, in a battle of Sting, the nWo killer, vs Goldberg, the unstoppable monster, Goldberg wins the title and is the WCW champion and the man with the streak to back up his title.
RedDevil241 2 years ago
Meanwhile, Goldberg begins a feud with Raven, where Raven is trying to play mindgames with the silent Goldberg. Goldberg beats Raven for the US Title, and then he takes on "The Dungeon," while Hogan takes on Kevin Nash over who the leader of the nWo really was. Sting and Goldberg had been kept away from each other, and now that they have taken out literally all outside forces around them "The Dungeon", the nWo, all the miscarders, Raven/the Flock), they begin a feud.
RedDevil241 2 years ago
If I may give my two cents:
Let's say that Hogan did indeed job clean. Now we have Sting, who is built up as the man who took down the nWo, and he is set to feud with Kevin Nash, Scott Hall and the like until about Hog Wild. Hogan is off to do battle with Bret Hart/the Dungeon, and jobs clean to Bret.
RedDevil241 2 years ago
I agree with almost everything Lawrence said and also Eric, your view on Wrath, but no 10-on-10. Too many people for the spots needed. All have to say about this season is, THAT WAS A FAST COUNT!
WickedNemesis 2 years ago
Well, if you read everything I had planned, you might change your mind ;) ha, but the gist of it is that since the very existence of WCW & nWo themselves are on the line, it's twice the amount of people usually alloted to the Wargames match, to get every major player on the battlefield. Thanks!
-E, Wrestling Roundtable
WrestlingRoundtable 2 years ago
Greats ideas, I really like Haber's storyline. If only that happened, imagine the competition for WWE today. Maybe it wouldn't save it but who knows.
clipsryan 2 years ago
Well, with the AOL/Time Warner merger bringing forth executives who wanted to dump wrestling first chance they got, who knows, because if WCW hadn't lost as much money as it did in the next few years, maybe they'd have kept with it - or maybe that wouldn't have made a difference. Who knows :) like you said. Thanks!
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WrestlingRoundtable 2 years ago
he who we not speak of what ru wwe now
cmon that childish say his name chris benoit chris benoit the canadian crippler toothless agression
DanielRokkz08 2 years ago