The Confucian-Daoist Persecution of Buddhism n China

[SanguineBullet667]

Taoists never exactly 'persecuted' against Buddhists. They viewed them as just a different version of Taoism. Now Confucianists are another matter. They are known for their militaristic mannerisms and did discriminate regularly, however they do not today.

[opensourcebuddhism]

@SanguineBullet667 Daoist advisors told Emperor Wuzong that if he "wiped out black" (= Buddhism) he would become an immortal. Indeed, the Confucian thinkers were the ones who viewed Buddhism as a real threat to the family, economy and military. To this day, China, more Confucian now that Communist, persecutes Buddhism (Falun Dafa, Tibet traditions....)

[opensourcebuddhism]

and of course, the protestants, though individually oriented and seeking ever more secular governments, nevertheless agreed with catholics on most points, whereas, though the chinese mind may synthesize the three philosophies, the philosophies are oddly nevertheless far more anti-thetical. a strange inverse relationship....

jp

[xingfenzhen]

This video isn't correct in the political context of wuzong's actions. Buddhism have been an official religion since Emperor Wu of Liang (464549), hundreds of years of state sponsorship meant it have acquired lots of land and power and more importantly it is interfering into politics. This persecution is political in nature as a way win back secular control of the government, and was not religious in nature. Which why it didn't target believers, but monasteries instead.

[opensourcebuddhism]

thank you for that insight xingfenzhen.

Iwt would be nice to have had that point included in the documentary.

james

[xingfenzhen]

yes, it's actually not too dissimilar to the reformation in Europe. The church has gotten too powerful and too rich (and listens only to the Pope in Rome), so the kings tried to get rid of it.

[opensourcebuddhism]

indeed,

and more than that, i suspect you will agree the dalai lama position may well be an eastern import of a political divine overlord, no? this is something many miss about the tibet/china conflict. they do not know the other side of sanghacracy as we lately call it.

jp

[xingfenzhen]

actually if you digg far enough how 1st dalai lama first come into power, you'll find out it might as well being a comprise between the various tribal leaders. Actually Mongols tried to pull the same thing in China with Drogön Chögyal Phagpa. However due both resentment of mongol rule and many, many unpopular policies he enacted, it never flew and it also brought down the other esoteric sects. Thus paving the way for Chan and Pure Land popularity in later years.

[jongruner]

this is hardly an impartial video, and you don't mention that Taoism (pronounced Daoism) was also banned in China. It has only recently began to grow again in China. Considering Buddhism is practiced in nearly every country of the world, and Daoism is mainly concentrated in the East, it makes the mind boggle why you'd present Buddhism as persecuted.

[opensourcebuddhism]

Ahhh,

but wasn't it Emperor Wuzong, a zealous Daoist, who instuted this persecution? Wikipedia tells us

"A zealous Taoist, Wuzong considered Buddhism a foreign religion that was harmful to Chinese society. "

Daoism exists all over and always has that is its genius: Chi gong, Tai chi, Bagua... It's all over. I don't deny there were persecutions of Daoists, but the biggest anti-Buddhist persecution was committed by a Daoist.

James

[jongruner]

Tai chi etc are single elements of Taoism , not the religion which isn't wildly practiced in western country's. Your either in Taoism or out there is not inbetween. And I would concur that Buddhism was a foreign import, it was not indigenous to China, but an offshoot of Hinduism in India. Further, when did we all start relying on wikipedia for information?, it is at most inacurate. Peace.

[opensourcebuddhism]

I thought the Dao was omnipresent? If so, how can we be out of it? Buddhism was a foreign import and to my mind, it's rich blend of Indian and CHinese understanding makes it so much richer than Hinduism, Jainism, Daoism or Confucianism.

And wikipedia! I have watched her grow up. She is expanding dramatically every single day. The day will come when we worship her and almighty Google as her male counterpart as the Most High.

James

[jongruner]

I was speaking from the perspective of someone who practices Daoism. I couldn't call myself Daoist and still celebrate Christian holidays or be selective in what parts of Daoism I want to practice. Thats what I meant by your either in or out no inbetween, meaning that someone practices all of Daoism to call themselves a Daoist, not parts of it such as Tai Chi, which isn't part of the religious side.

[opensourcebuddhism]

i am surprised to hear that tai chi isn't part of the Daoist religion. i always teach that it is, just as i teach shaolin as a daoist influenced buddhism. kung fu and ninjitsu are deemed part of buddhist tradition, not just health exercises.

jp

[jongruner]

tai chi is a discipline, a practice forming elements of the teachings of Daoism, but not part of the actual religious practice. I mean I wouldn't meditate and say prayers and then tai chi the first person i saw;) It's difficult to articulate my point here as there is limited space, but i appreciate your point. peace.

[toddlerchar]

no emperor can be named something the second, because that is not how Imperial names work. The imperial names follow a cyclic astrological order. when transcribing the names of the Emperor to the alphabetical spelling there were 2 "Xuan Zhong"s, but rest-assured that you should not refer the second one as Xuan Zhong II, because the Chinese characters of the second Xuan is different from the first one. Just like that fact that the spelling "ma" can mean horse, mother, insult, wipe, numb, etc

[toddlerchar]

Sui Dynasty is the predecessor of Tang Dynasty... not the successor... check your history. The main dynasty that came after Tang was Song dynasty. In the short period between Tang and Song, the country was divided between 5 northern dynasties and 10 southern kingdoms. Some of these kingdoms might have used the same name as previous existing dynasties For example there was a late Tang dynasty which was ruled by people who have no relation to the rulers of the original Tang