When I mentioned opinion,I mean that taking a morning after pill after been raped can be validly seen as wrong but acording to my opinion I see SOME justification particularly to AIM to stop conception.Taking a morning when after having had consensual sex or having abortions is not an opinion,it is factually wrong and an injustice to both mother and the unborn.
Reportedyou,Now for my opinion,if raped a woman should take the morning after pill to aim to stop a conception.Now for fact again,later abortions are absolutely cruel to both mother and the unborn and for this reason is completely wrong.
Reportedyou,You seem to think that somehow a fetus is some kind of evil being who just decided to deliberatly "invade" is mothers body,when the reality is that pregnancy which you and Sanger call a loss of control over a womans body is the fault of the woman herself and the biological father,not the fetus'fault.The previously mentioned in this comment is FACT.
A woman exercising control over her own body is when she decides to have sex, and whether anyone likes it or not pregnancy is what the physical act of sex is for (in addition to mutual love),so if a woman does not want a child,she should not have sex or use the rhythm method.Rape is the situation where a woman does not have control over her own body,not when she becomes pregnant from consensual sex.
So Basically sillynene seems to think that women who grieve a miscarriage the same as the death of a born child and pregnant women who call their fetus, a baby are deluded or probably insane or something.
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Janvier, I know you are completely obtuse and incapable of comprehending anything beyond a 2nd gr.level, but let me voice my opinion on this ONCE AGAIN! I (STILL) think a woman grieving a miscarriage absolutely believe in THEIR HEARTS that the fetus they carry is a BABY. It is all relative. I've had miscarriages and I've mourned. I PERSONALLY mourned more the "thought" of the baby I would NEVER KNOW than the loss of an actual living sentient child. DO NOT recap MY THOUGHTS - u r ALWAYS wrong!
Just because a mother did not get the chance to get to know her own baby because of a miscarriage and mourns it,she is not mourning over nothing so therefore she IS mourning over a the loss of a unborn baby that was an actual living sentient unborn baby-it is also perfectly understandable that she would eventually get over the death of this unborn baby and it is no-ones fault if the death of the fetus/unborn was as a result of miscarriage.
embryo,fetus newborn baby,child,adolescent,adult,severely disabled person,elderly person are all each human beings and all each have the right to life.And no one has the right to have any one of these killed if they feel that any one of them is an inconvenience to them.
There should be better support(financial,psychological,educational and career)for single pregnant women.These supports would cause a drop in the number of abortions.
Domestic Adoptions have dropped because of abortions.There are ,as you knoe, epidurals and excellent medicine in both North America and Europe,so there is no need to fear childbirth as much as it was in the past.Adoption is one of the only two options, the other being raising the child oneself.Abortion=killing=infanticide and is not a naturally valid option.
Refusing to go through nine months from a pregnancy which resulted from consensual sex is also unjust against infertile couples who want to adopt a baby.
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"Refusing to go through 9 months of a pregnancy which resulted from consensual sex is also unjust against infertile couples who want to adopt a baby."
Refusing to give blood is unjust against those who NEED it.
Vegans who refuse to drink milk are unjust against those who are lactose intolerant.
Lazy people who do not exercise are unust against those in wheelchairs.
Rich people who do not give the majority of their money to charity are unjust against those impoverished.
Speaking of "choice",an adult who murders another adult also made a choice so if everyone were to follow the logic of Pro- choice everyone would be allowed to do whatever they wanted even if that choice violates the right to life of others.We cannot be selective -if murder is wrong,then it is wrong from conception to death from natural causes
An abortion is equally unjust as killing a disabled person or a newborn child just because someone does not want them."Also there is adoption for parents who dont want their baby."[my comment](Just to clarify)Giving one,s biological child up for adoption is an option for parens who do not want their biological child.
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"This video is incorrect. You forgot to mention that after the third week of conception, you can detect a heartbeat."
And so what does that mean? You are in favor of abortions until a heartbeat can be detected? Does having a heartbeat make the fetus a viable, sentient human being able to sustain life outside of the womb? Does detecting a heartbeat give the fetus rights OVER the woman carrying it?
"What do you say to women who mourn miscarriages?Do you think that they are mourning over nothing or over no-one?Or what about stillbirths?Do you think that they are insane for mourning over the dead fetus?I am referring to other women in this comment and not to you." You still have,nt answered this comment.
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Actually, I have answered this comment OVER and OVER and OVER...etc. again.
But for the learning impaired (oh, that's you, janvier) I will reply once again.
Now pay attention...this is growing weary...
If a woman WANTS a baby and a pregnancy, then from the start, the zygote/embryo/fetus is a BABY to her. TO HER. It is HER baby. SO of course she will mourn its loss. (I have 3 times now.) HOWEVER, if the pregnancy is unwanted, the blog of dividing cells is just that to the woman.
It is wrong and absurd to declare someone not human when his/her mother does not want them before birth.Whether or not the fetus/unborn baby is wanted by his/her parents or not the fetus/unborn baby is still a human being and still has the right to life and the right to be born.Also there is adoption for parents who dont want their baby.
Saying that the unborn fetus is not a baby is undermining the mother who is looking forward to the baby.Basically the woman who calls her unborn 'a baby' IS being accurate and it is not something that is emotional,it is logical too when she calls the unborn 'a baby'.It is a human being anyway whether one calls the unborn a baby or fetus or embryo.
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All the majority of women ask is to lead their OWN lives according to their OWN morals and beliefs and be in charge of THEIR OWN BODIES... WITHOUT YOU or any one else (ie the government) FORCING them to do otherwise against their will. That can't be that much to ask.
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Abstainence is NOT a solution unless you are a priest or a nun...oh wait. And then not even as we have learned, huh?
Um...no...I am all for a woman being RESPONSIBLE and using one of those 99% effective birth controls and then if it FAILS, having the OPTION to CHOOSE what is best FOR HER.
But "freedom" is only free if there are no restrictions placed upon it. It is not for me to judge as to what is a "valid" reason or not. The woman ALONE has this power over herown body.
you forget that many girls are nagged into consenting to sex and that artificial birth control has a 20% failure rate and if a woman is on some other medication that the effects of any other drug cancels out the effectiveness of the pill,the iud can perforate the uterus,condoms frequently break.Furthermore Unfortunately women are not complete completely free because our society is male dominated-for example prostitution still exists.
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"disgusting and horrible" is your opinion and you are entitled to it.
I do not think sucking out a fetus a 1/2" to 3" long is disgusting at all. And of course I have already stated many times how I am against 2nd & 3rd tri abortions, so my "CHOICE"doesn't fight for those at all.
Have you ever watched childbirth? Disgusting is one word that DEFINITELY comes to my mind. But of course, that is just MY opinion, too.
ok so childbirth of course does look disgusting and is painful for the mother but neither the mother or the child is being killed and in the western world medicine is good and therefore we have epidurals and so on.
"And of course I have already stated many times how I am against 2nd & 3rd tri abortions, so my "CHOICE"doesn't fight for those at all."You are correct in being against 2nd and 3rd trimester abortions but a fetus is human being in the 1st three months also.
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"find a better way to end unwanted pregnancies""Why would Planned Parenthood even bother, when they get the vast majority of their money from abortions alone?"
That is ridiculous! You act like any person who does believe or think like you do is a Heathen. There must be an agenda?
By your (ridiculous) way of thinking, there will also never be a cure for cancer. WHY would an oncologist or drug companies find a cure when they make the vast majority of their money from people WITH cancer?
They rtegret it because it is a human being who they paid someone to kill.And every human being has the roght to live.Abortion is as equally cruel as killing a newborn.
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"Abortion is as equally cruel as killing a newborn."
This is ONLY your opinion & in MY opinion, not true what-so-ever.
There is a HUGE-ASS difference between having a fetus die inside you (killed by GOD) and having one of your ACTUAL, born and living CHILDREN die!! If you think otherwise, you
1)DO NOT have children.
2)have had the GOOD FORTUNE of never experiencing a miscarriage.
3)have had the GOOD FORTUNE of never having one of your ACTUAL children DIE or their life threatened.
I have never said that a child that has been born sickness death is insignificant ever and I am mot personally attacking you or what happened to you-I am only against your pro-abortion beliefs(and beliefs are all that they are).
I am sorry for all the stresses that you have went through.
What do you say to women who mourn miscarriages?Do you think that they are mourning over nothing or over no-one?Or what about stillbirths?Do you think that they are insane for mourning over the dead fetus?I am referring to other women in this comment and not to you.
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Nope. COMPLETELY illogical and COMPLETELY unrealistic. still.
Being pro-choice is about a woman and her reproductive rights. Once born, this is no longer an issue. You can spin it however you wish, but to think ACTUAL, LIVING, SENTIENT babies BORN INTO THIS WORLD could be killed because of abortion being legal is not only a ridiculous and invalid comparison, it is COMPLETELY
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sumitup:"Women just need to be smarter about their sexual activities."
In a perfect world, with perfect people (like yourself) this would be true. But some people are not smart. Do not follow the rules. Have their OWN moral standards and beliefs....geeeezzz what is wrong with them? It's like they want to live in a country where they are 'free' to make choices pertaining to their own bodies. WHy don't they prefer to live in as a communist under your ruling? WHAT is wrong w/them??!
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sumpitup: "Then I think, you should get your tubes tied. You're old enough and mature enough to make the decision."
Thank you for unsolicited advice to have yet another (and unnecessary) invasive surgery so I can support YOUR beliefs, but I respectfully decline that thought and will take my <1% chance with the birth control I use instead.
And you are right. I AM old enough and mature enough to make that DECISION for MYSELF!
And(to continue from 'the fact that pregnancy puts a strain on a womans body would prove my point) Its ludicrous when pro-'choice'ers claim abortion has absolutely no effect on a womans body and also claim that pregnancy is health or life endangering.Of course pregnancy is a strain and childbirth uncomfortable but because abortion is an interference in a womans natural bodily processes of pregnancy,it is damaging in the long term
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Seriously Janvier...just stick to the facts you know. You ramble on with false propoganda and lies and just sound foolish. Who cares what an abortion does to the body? Is a GROWN ADULT woman not able to decide what is right or wrong for her own body? You can die from drinking too much beer! You can die from smoking! You ride roller coasters "at your own risk". C'mon! This is 2008...adult women do not need "raising" or "controlling". Least of all by you.
"Is a GROWN ADULT woman not able to decide what is right or wrong for her own body? You can die from drinking too much beer! You can die from smoking!" C'mon! This is 2008...adult women do not need "raising" or "controlling"" Actually yes adults do need to be saved from doing damage to themselves and they are (drugs are illegal etc),and it is not only women.Alos abortion should be banned to help women also.
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I think this ridiculous reply speaks for itself.
You believe YOU are the "PEOPLE POLICE" of the WORLD and would CONTROL EVERY aspect of a person's life? WHY? Why do you feel the need to control ADULT human beings? I was not aware of the 2nd coming of Christ. (in you)
SO I guess you are on here fighting to ban cigarettes, alcohol, junk food, sugar and the MILLIONS of other things "bad" for us??
I pity you and your pathetic existence. It is just so sad.
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"Of course pregnancy is a strain and childbirth uncomfortable" Spoken like a true blue woman who has NEVER had children! lmfao! UNCOMFORTABLE??!?!!! I had MAJOR surgery! Hospitalized for 5 days. After my D&C (SAME procedure as a 1st TRI suction abortion) I went home about an hour later and had no side effects what so ever...ya, you know what you are talking about!
"Prohibition has never worked. Has history taught you nothing?"Actually it did,the numbers of women who were killing themselves using backaley abortion and coathaners was low in coparison to today.The idea that it was common is pro-abortion propaganda.If pregnancy is hard on a woman,abortion is also and abortion is something that can be avoided while once pregnant it is too late.
It is not a woamsn choice for two reasons firstly she does not have the right to have herself harmed and secondly she does not have the right to have people(the so called surgeons) kill her own son or daughter
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"It is not a woamsn choice for two reasons firstly she does not have the right to have herself harmed"
No no no...you have that all wrong~
YOU do not have the right to DECIDE what is harmfully wrong for a person to do to THEIR OWN BODY! Do you fight equally hard against elective surgery like face lifts? This not only can potentially harm the woman physically (even end in death), but can cause major emotional and psychological damage as well. You are a joke.
So women dont want to be treated as a person and instead want to be trated as an object,a means to an end for somebody elses(a mans) sole self gratification?They must have low or no self esteem
Sillynene even people who advocate artificial methods of birth control never see abortion as contraception.Futhermore there are people who agree with contraception and completely disagree with abortion,so there are many types of pro life people.Although artificial birth control can be a cause of a man demanding sex from the wife when she dosen,t want it.If abortion is logical then its also logical to kill a newborn-abortion is as equally cruel as kiling a newborn
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"I'm talking the basic right to LIVE. Is the basic right to live subject to age, size, skill? (Or anything else?)"
Well, if you are talking about a natural right to life, then some might argue it is survival of the fittest. This rule is present everywhere in nature.
"The power to decide that an unborn baby has no right to live, can easily be waved in favor of killing born children."
That is ridiculous false propaganda pro-lifers would try to have us believe. It is completely illogical.
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"And 97% of all abortions are out of convenience. If women didn't want to get pregnant or have kids so bad, maybe they should figure out a way without taking away someone else's basic right to LIVE."
EXACTLY what the majority of pro-choicers are saying! YES!! Pro-lifers should STOP worrying so much about abortions and try to find a BETTER way to END unwanted pregnancies, ie: better contraceptives.
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"If she's pregnant, she still had sex. Obviously, she didn't take ALL possible precautions."
Only 1 immaculate conception recorded in history, so you are correct. She CHOSE to have sex, she USED contraception and IT FAILED. Now she has another choice...keep the pregnancy or not.
"Well, that control could have been exercised before getting pregnant."
Right, I CHOOSE to have sex. Control of MY OWN body. If a woman is responsible and her contraception fails, she now has a choice to make.
That is irresponsible.You have just provent o me that there are women who see abortion as just another method of birth control and abortion is never ever to be regarded as birth control.I disagree with artificial birth control when ii is used to facilitate out of wedlock sex but if it is used in a marriage where a couple are prepared to accept any child from an unplanned pregnancy then ok.
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Ya, I'm not going to go round and round about something that really doesn't matter anyway. ORIGINALLY you JUST brought up the subject of how abortions hurt women. THAT WAS ALL. You made no mention of the fetus...JUST that abortions cause breast cancer. THAT is what my reply was to. NOW you are adding more. In reply to that, there is no way to save the unborn fetus without taking away both the woman's reproductive rights as well as her own body.
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"Was there anything else other than a c section that you were worried about..?"
For one, I already have 3 children and do not want more. Second, I am 40 years old. With this fabulous age comes MANY risk factors not only to me but to the unborn. And yes, my womb could not sustain yet another c-section. If my birth control fails, it should me MY choice whether or not to risk my life and leave my ACTUAL children without a mother!!
Most woman who has abortions regret it and you are not one of the women who have had an abortion.My aunt had a c-section and my cousin(her son) was delivered prematurely at 7 months gestation.She had 2 more children via c-sections after this,so that was hard for her.
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"Then she should have made the decision to NOT get pregnant. Maybe they should have taken proper precautions BEFORE getting pregnant."
OH...so if a woman takes GREAT measure NOT to get pregnant and STILL DOES...she is "allowed" an abortion?
MOST abortions are because of FAILED birth control. Perhaps pro-lifers should stop the "holier than thou" attitudes and look into better contraception.
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Once again, it is GREAT argument for the purpose of what it was intended. NOT to compare doing these things directly to getting an abortion, but the fact that WE HAVE CHOICES WHERE OUR BODIES are concerned and what happens to them.
ONCE AGAIN, your argument was NOT what abortion does to the fetus but what it does to THE WOMAN...like MY EXAMPLES...pertaining to the WOMAN...did I spell it out enough now? Something is not invalid because you cannot COMPREHEND it.
Women are important too just like any other human being young or old and pregancy being a natural process is the reason why it damages the woman.A small number of women have actully died from legal and so called safe abortions.
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"But don't you think it's a little bit funny that the this group that founded the link false, contradicts many more.."
DROP THE BREAST CANCER ISSUE ALREADY! good God!
It is NOT A VALID ARGUMENT so drop it already.
Go argue on a breast cancer vlog if you are so passionate about it.
My mother-in-law has nursed 7 children, never smoked or did drugs and she is DYING of breast cancer right now. ABORTIONS are NOT the #1 cause of this and STILL would be a woman's choice even if it were.
SUMITUPTWOTIMES did not say that abortion is the only caue of breast cancer but it is one of the causes.Not every woman who had an abortion done on her will be damaged the same way,but there is always some type of damage done to her body and frequently her mental health.
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"...but there is always some type of damage done to her body and frequently her mental health."
This is simply NOT true. There is NOT ALWAYS some type of damage done to her body. I have had 3 D&C's...no damage done.
There is, however, PLENTY of damage done to my body from the three actual pregnancies and births I've had! Sooooo by YOUR way of thinking, I should have aborted them all and ended any risk to my body? Nah, I CHOSE to have my children IN SPITE of the risks!
"Sooooo by YOUR way of thinking, I should have aborted them all and ended any risk to my body? Nah, I CHOSE to have my children IN SPITE of the risks!"Certainly I would never say its ok to have an abortion.The fact that pregnancy puts a strain on a womans body would prove my point.
Women who have had abortions frequently get breast cancer but there are also women who have never had abortions that get breast cancer.SO IT IS ONE CAUSE OF BREAST CANCER
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"So whether or not someone has rights or not, depends on his/her size, age, or skill?"
Of course they do! Many social rights are based on age. Do children have the right to vote, drive, drink alchohol???
Besides the fact that there ARE cases where a woman's life is on the line should she carry out a pregnancy. (In my case, for example. Not only would my age be a risk factor, but the fact that I have already had 6 pregnancies and 3 c-sections.)
So,everyone do you all think that when a woman mourns the loss of her unborn offspring when she has a miscarriage that she is being foolish?Because I don,t think that she is foolish.
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janvier:"..do you all think that when a woman mourns the loss of her unborn offspring when she has a miscarriage that she is being foolish?"
I don't believe personal emotions are ever foolish because they are very real for the person feeling them, of course. I was VERY sad for the 3 miscarriages I had...however, I TRIED to get pregnant and WANTED a baby.
Do you think foolish the feelings of a woman forced into sex (not raped but coerced) and finds herself unwantingly pregnant?
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"And you used bad examples of "legal" things to make your argument.
Abortion hurts a woman, affects her health..."
And this is YOUR opinion and my opinion is you are WRONG.
So eating fast food doesn't effect a woman's health? When she becomes obese, there are no physical or psychological effects? c'mon...I KNOW you are truly not this obtuse.
The examples I gave are ALL legal and ALL hurt a woman and ALL our HER choice...still...not yours.
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Furthermore, your argument IS invalid BECAUSE it DOES NOT MATTER WHAT side effects CAN occur, a person has the right to decide WHAT happens to his/her OWN body. PERIOD.
I never said ALL of the side effects you claim to be false. But I did say that the very same effects AND MORE can happen with most of the "legal" drugs approved by the FDA.
And AGAIN, a man/woman can seek out ELECTIVE surgeries and procedures. They CAN DIE. Many things can go wrong.
It is claimed that abortion is liberating for women and the point of mentioning the harms that abortion does to women is to show that it is not liberating for women.
By the way abortion is unnecessary because pregnancy is not a disease but it would also be wrong to seek out elective surgery such as cosmetic surgery like Michael Jackson did or to change ones gender because it is harmful to the person who wants these surgeries
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"By the way abortion is unnecessary because pregnancy is not a disease but it would also be wrong to seek out elective surgery such as cosmetic surgery like Michael Jackson did..."
ARE YOU KIDDING ME??!! NOW you are going to also tell people whether or not they should be able to get cosmetic surgery, etc.??
You are far worse of a CONTROL FREAK than I originally thought. WOW!
Let's just tell everyone that EVERY move they make must be run by JANVIER first...you are unbelievable!
You say you wanted the baby that you aborted,but the thing is that even when there are risks such as in your case,the fetus/ child should be allowed to live because no parent actually owns their child and no parent owns their childs life so the fetos has the right to its own life because he or she is separate from his or her father and mother.When kids become teenagers they remind their parents of this by saying "its my life"or "you dont own me".And they are right.
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"You say you wanted the baby that you aborted,but the thing is that even when there are risks such as in your case,the fetus/ child should be allowed to live..."
First of all, I never had an abortion...not sure where you got that from. I had a D&C of a dead fetus before it could miscarry on its own...which is the EXACT same procedure AS an abortion...was that the confusion?
AND, why is a fetus's life worth more than the woman carrying it now? EVEN if the woman could die, she cannot abort?
(By the way the word fetus is not dehumanising-it simply means 'offspring' in Latin-much like saying neonate for newborn,adolescent for teenager).
Ok,You did not have an abortion so your unborn son or daughter/fetus died naturally so you did not get something to kill it because that would have been an abortion,so why did you want to have your dead unborn childs body dismembered?I know that c-sections are very unpleasant so I am not minimising in any way your experiences of c-sections.
This was in reference to the D & C that you had to have because the fetus(your dead unborn childs body) was already dead and that you would have miscarried.Your reply to my comment which was"so why did you want to have your dead unborn childs body dismembered?"A fetus is an unborn child
Of course obesity harms health and eating fast food is legal but the difference is that the person eating harms only him/herself while in abortion the woman is harmed by the abortionist and kills her own offspring.Also excess weight can be lost but a woman cannot undo the killing of her unborn child which a large number of women come to regret.
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"And people like you only legitimatize health risks in carrying a baby to term. That doesn't calm the fear of having a baby."
No, the FACTS legitimize the ACTUAL health risks, pain and fear involved in having a baby. And I am glad for it! People SHOULD NOT take bringing a child into this world lightly and there IS something to fear. It was great birth control for me until I was REALLY ready. Then I didn't care, I wanted a child and got pregnant KNOWING the risks (and pain) involved.
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And I will say AGAIN, that it HAS been found to be false and REGARDLESS of the findings it is a person's right to seek an abortion no matter what the risks to her person since it is HER body.
And I will say it again, that the UNBORN FETUS should NOT have rights that will spersede and take away rights of the woman it is inside. Thanfully, the vast majority agrees and abortion IS legal.
Preganc does not limit a womans life or her right to live.Its natures way that a woman survives pregnancy so that she is there for the child throughout the pregnancy and for when he or she is born
A law against abortion does not limit a womans rights to her own body, a man using a woman for casual sex is a womans body being used for someone else
a baby or child also only lives because his or her parents provide for him/her and feed him/her and cause exhaustion of the parents in general thereby born children also have an effect on the parents body and rightly no one asks that they be kiled.Lokewise the unborn should not be killed
sumituptwotimes,you have excellent statements here and another thing is why is it that a lot of women dont say "its my body" to the man or men with whom alot of women choose to have sex with in an uncommitted relationship?
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janvier:"why is it that a lot of women dont say "its my body" to the man or men with whom alot of women choose to have sex with in an uncommitted relationship?"
Maybe because they WANT to have sex? Janvier, not everyone lives in 1942 as you do. Women today actually ENJOY having sex and not always forced into or consider it a "duty". They ARE saying "my body" when they choose to have sex.
It is disrespectful for a woman on the part of a man to use her for a one night stand as if she were a sex toy and not a human being.But besides that if a man and a woman do not want children then they should not be having sex because whether you,I or anyone else would like it to be that way or not,sexual intercourse is for procreation.Artificial Contraception has a 10 to 20% failure rate.
By the way biology and the fact that sexual intercourse = pregnancy/baby is far older than 1942!Having intercourse =pregnancy just as swallowing food=nourishment,E=mc2,breathing=taking in oxygen and exhaling,-------Its,s a scientific reality.
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"By the way biology and the fact that sexual intercourse = pregnancy/baby is far older than 1942!"
You are so obtuse you cannot even comprehend the ribbing you just received.
It is your way of thinking that women don't LIKE or WANT sex and men FORCE them into unwantingly all the time which is from 1942.
If you recall, I was replying to your original question as to "why women can say MY BODY for abortion not to the men in the first place not to have sex."
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OF COURSE being pro-choice means that I must make abortions available and legal to those who would seek them...hence the CHOICE. It is not MINE or YOURS to make.
But for the record, I am personally against abortion and would not seek one except for medical reasons.
But I am NOT into controlling others and would leave this decision up to them.
Willingness to give a person control over her own body is NOT saying you are Pro-abortion.
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"Abortion that is done without threat to the mother's life has no logical reason. The reasoning behind most abortions is emotion."
According to WHO'S logic?? YOURS?! It is logical and valid the THE WOMAN seeking the abortion. Yes, emotions may play into it...but I believe it is emotions that would stop a woman, rather than lead her to, getting an abortion.
Again, how the WOMAN "feels" is her right and hers alone.
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Your claim linking breast cancer and abortions is COMPLETELY false. As for other side-effects, again, these are the exception, NOT the rule as you would have others believe.
And even if EVERY abortion carried some side effect, it is still NOT your right or a valid argument to your pro-life stance as (once again) this is the WOMAN's decision to make for HER OWN body. Just like ANY elective prodedure...plastic surgery, sterilization, etc. HER choice...NOT yours.
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"And abortion is not healthy. The health risks involved are pretty dangerous."
A FIRST TRIMESTER abortion is much less dangerous than a full term pregnancy and delivery.
Not to mention, drinking is not healthy. Fast food is not healthy. There are MANY things we do to and put in our bodies that is not healthy. But guess what? That is OUR RIGHT and OUR CHOICE.
I had c-sections...don't tell me what is riskier for ME...another pregnancy or an abortion?
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sumitup:"RTA- According to the law, killing your child is ok. Like according to the law, a time ago, slavery was ok... the law is wrong, yet again."
There are MANY laws I do not agree with, but society as a whole does. Yes, slavery was wrong. Should we throw out ALL of the laws and start over based on that?
It is only YOUR opinion that abortion is wrong. Not a fact.
Its rejecting the belief that abortion is somehow liberating for women that helps.Anyway did you know that the porn magazine Playboy has a foundation which contributes money to planned parenthood and as you know playboy is anti-woman.And also that abortion is used to eliminate female foetuses in China and India.Proves that Abortion is not so feminist after all.
I thought that I made it clear to you that I actually DID NOT think you were pro"choice".What I was trying to tell you was that the claims of those people who call themselves pro-choice that they are supporting womens health is false and spurious and that as well as being pro life because it kills a very young human being,you should also oppose abortion because abortion damages womens health always physically to varying degrees and frequently also has mentally traumatic effects
In actual fact I did not think that you are pro-"choice".But you should be against abortion because it is harmful to women as well as the fact that it is the killing of an unborn baby.
I am glad that you can give the scientific facts sumituptwotimes about early fetal development but did you know that abortion is harmful to womens health?
sillynene,you are right, a woman should not have to have a reason to give to her male partner for not having sex.Also some men think being his 'girlfriend' or being married legitimses his use of her for casual sex when,where and how only he wants it without due regard for what she wants(not to have sex).
If a comatose person on a life support machine is human,take him/her out of the hospital entirely.If a newborn is human let him/her out in the middle of nowhere.Your reasoning is faulty as are these sentences.The word "fetus" means litle one or offspring therefore it is not a dehumanising word just like,toddler,adolescent
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You are forgetting that for a person in a coma and/or on life-support does not effect or harm another person's body and/or infringe on their rights in any way.
Of course when I say let the fetus be delivered, it would be to the same care that any newborn would receive.
IF IN FACT it is a person, deliver it and let it live.
Any OTHER human needing life assistance can receive this from ANY machine and/or ANY living person. If a fetus is a PERSON as you say, it will, too.
Pregnancy does not harm a womans body in any wany or infringe her rights because no one you me or anyone else deliberately brought oneself into existence when we were fetuses.However the mother and father did,so the least they should do is the duty to let him/her develop and be born
You are forgetting that yes there are many people who are in a coma and are considered inconvenient to their relative or society-but are human-there would be no euthanasia controversy.Likewise a fetus deserves to live just like a person in a coma does.Also both severely disabled and moderately disabled people depend on their carer for life and this does have effects on the carer(exhaustion)and they are human as a fetus is.
No child is an accident.When in marriage there is no problem with an unexpected pregnancy because the father is there to support the woman and child.Vasectomy sometimes dont work.If every woman aborted because of depression,then there would be a significant drop in the human population in Europe,North America Australia and New Zealand.Abortion makes depression worse because of the disruption of hormones incl.oxytocin
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Janvier, I was not speaking to you and since your way of thinking is not only incorrect but antiquated, I prefer not to converse further dialogue with you. You state opinion as fact and you act like we still live in the 19th century. ("When in marriage there is no problem with an unexpected pregnancy because the father is there to support the woman and child." perfect example with that statement.) I thought I made this clear already.
Biology never becomes antiqated.When the mother is supported by her fetuses father or her own parents to provide for the child,the chances are almost nil that she will abort.Secondly in a committed relationship or marriage the woman and the man support each other.Strange that you see a man using a woman for casual sex as 'feminist' and a man and woman loving and supporting each other as antiquated.During pregnancy a woman needs to be looked after more and to rest-maternity leave
So you think that a woman should not insist that her babys father be responsible for the child,even if she no longer wants or needs him,sillynene?By the way please talk to youtube account name roevswade
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janvier:"So you think that a woman should not insist that her babys father be responsible for the child,even if she no longer wants or needs him"
I have no clue (as usual) to what you are referencing here. Could you please quote me first so I know what you are responding to and then answer correctly.
Basically what I said was that the statistics prove that when a woman is supported (emotionally/psychologically supported) an also financially supported by her husband or partner that the statistics prove that there is an almost nil chance of aborting even if the pregnancy was sudden.Most women who abort are abandoned by their partner/husband or even their own parents.
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Of course being a NON-PERSON has EVERYTHING to do with whether or not abortion is legal. If the fetus is a non-person (as I have stated), it does NOT have rights as the ACTUAL person does.
That is my point. period.
If is then up to each individual woman as to what this means to her and whether or not abortion or pregnancy is the answer ...FOR HER.
The fetus had ACTUAL rights on 1/21/73~it was a legal PERSON. Suddenly, the court took away the rights of personhood, as they have w/ BORN humans throughout history. The fact that the fetus is now a non-person & is denied the right to life has nothing to do w/ the biological facts. You are making a legal argument, while I am making a scientific one. Since abortion is legal & the fetus is not a "person" entitled to rights, then abortion is moral. Because abortion ends a human life, it is immoral.
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Actually, I am making both arguments. Bottom line for me is, if the woman doesn't want to be pregnant (her right) take the fetus out and let it live. If it cannot sustain life on its own outside the womb, well then that is just a biological consequence.
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If an embryo is a "person", then how is it that we can freeze them and them thaw them and they are alive again? This is not possible with a fully grown, sentient human being. Though many people I know ACT like there is no brain in their head, they would DIE if frozen in this manner and we would NOT be able to bring them back to life.
Please explain how this is possible with the embryo since it is a PERSON.
The embryo is not a person, according to the US Supreme Court decision Roe v. Wade. It is legal to kill a tiny embryo or a 38 wk infant...so long as they are inside a petri dish or a womb. The embryo IS a living human & if frozen on day 1, 2, 3, 4, or 5 the number surviving the thaw were 87%, 33%, 43%, 12% & 0% respectfully, so the tiny human can & often does die during the process. The biological process of cell division is slowed/paused at near absolute zero & is possible because of # of cells
All one really needs is to look at the stats. Girls who get on some form of birthcontrol increase sexual activity. They feel safe & are in a cerain sense, available. The fear of pregnancy is, in their minds, eliminated (although 50 percent of abortions are on women who were using birthcontrol when she got pregnant)so she really has no good (non-moral) reason not to agree to sex. Add to this that all hormonal birthcontrol & the IUD are potential abortifacients as 1 of their 3 functions.
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All those stats mean is that the girl was ready to become sexually active and was responsible enough to actually GO and GET birth control. Every SINGLE one of my friends was sexually active prior to getting on the pill. Two had abortions before they got smart and went on the pill. True my sex was better and more open since I did not fear getting pregnant. But I was with a boyfriend I had been with for 3 years.
That does not mean girls were ready to have sex.When a woman is ready to have sex is when she is ready to accept pregnancy and a thus a baby and also when there is mutual and committd love her and the man.The stats mainly prove that boys pressure girls into sex and this is nagging into consent that I was referring to.
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"Artificial contraception and abortion were invented by men."
Because women were not scientists and doctors in that era. It took a WOMAN to fight for safe and legal contraception. Women have the pill because of Margaret Sanger. NOT because of a man.
The pill was invented by a man named Carl Djerassi and was available from 1960 onwards..In the 1920,s (Margaret Sangers time) the pill was not invented yet.And it because there were not many women who were doctors and scientists and the majority of doctors and scientists were men , well of course they wouldn,t invent anything that considerably altered the natural functioning of the reproductive system of a man and has
and has nasty side effects as they considered(and still do consider women and womens bodies as being less important than men and mens bodies.For the same reason the founder of NARAL was a man and because they also consider womens bodies unimportant and are only concerned with making money(planned parenthood)and also dont care about the damage to womens mental and physical health.
There isn,t much contraception to be used on mens bodies as men are more advantaged in everything and the contraception used on womens' is harmful(the pill,the iud) (and contraception frequently fails) and it causes those who don t want children to have sex.When it fails those who have casual sex use abortion.Contraception frequently leads onto abortion-this is why I am against both.
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"men are more advantaged in everything" This is a biological matter. It isn't men over women.
I was on the pill for YEARS. It was not harmful to me in any way. It also did not "MAKE" me have sex. I was sexually active with my boyfriend months BEFORE going on the pill and remained sexually active while in relationships. HOW did it MAKE me have sex? That is an insane (and FALSE) generalization...once again.
And the ONLY way to prevent unwanted preg. is thru contraception. period.
I'm glad it wasn't harmful to you in anyway. It is not so for every woman. One friend of mine had an embolism from the pill. Another had severe reactions to the Depo shot. My aunt had to have a total hysterectomy from the IUD. Another friend has been dealing w/ fertility issues her doctor thinks are related to her years on chemical birth control. When scientists tested the male pill, one male had some shrinkage in his testicles. STOP! During female tests, 1 woman died so they lowered the dose.
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I have not had one friend or come in contact with one female I know who has had an adverse effect from the pill.
Does this mean no women have ever? Of course not. But side effects are the exception, not the rule.
Actually, your friend should see another doctor, that one is a quack. I fully researched the pill and it actually makes you more fertile not the other way around. Many fertility doctors actually put women ON the pill to regulate them and sometimes it does work.
Again I am not specifically referring to you,I am referring what the pill and other contraception and abortion gas done to women as a group and the extra incentive that it has given to men as a group to use us women as sex objects i.e things to give men pleasure whenever and however men want it without due consideration for the girls/womans feelings and emotions.
"NOTHING is healthy about a C-section or post partum"You are correct but c section are sometimes needed to save the life of both the woman/mother and the baby/fetus.Or if hips are too small to push the baby out.
What I meant by exploiting biology is that men use theories of biolgy which dont exist to try to prove non existent and srurios claims of men being superior to women.The fact is that men are not superior to women and vice versa-to whoever gave the thumbs down.
Abortion and artificial contraception was invented by men so that could have sex using the women on the mens demand.The only justification would be for the morning after pill to be taken within days after a rpe,the aim being to prevent conception or sometimes if a conception has occurred,implantation.
FYI~I have had 3 pregnancies & 3 c-sections & zero depression. I had a quick recovery. Vaginal birth is a natural event. It is the woman's body doing what it was designed to do. I don't understand why so many women treat fertility, pregnancy, & birth as a disease that needs to be fixed with chemicals, pills, devices, & surgery. It seems that "equality" means being wombless & able to have consequenceless sex like a man instead of celebrating what women alone are capable of! We fear & dispise it!
Why are you so rude & sarcastic? You mentioned your pergnancy experiences. I never responded in the manner you have. I needed 3 c-sections. I HAD 3 c-sections. Just a fact. Thankfully they were without complication. This statement of fact gets me an abnoxious reply? While "fear & dispise" & "celebratory" are indeed opinions (often shaped by society's view of the circumstances surrounding the condition) what is NOT opinion is the fact the unborn is a living human & abortion ends an innocent life.
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No you implication that having a c-section is not big deal and that pregnancy is the better way is what got you a sarcastic reply. Read your statement again. It is a slap to those who not consider being pregnant such a celebration as would you as well as those women who enjoy having meaningless casual sex...yes,just as men do.
The unborn is of human species (though NOT a person) and is as innocent as say the cow killed for your hamburger. I'll give you that.
Again, personhood is a legal term...a status that can be confired upon or withheld by those in positions of power, NOT a biological term. The unborn WAS a legal person Jan. 21, 1973. Jan 22, 1973 it became a legal non-person. It has always been & will always be a HUMAN BEING. Similar to the Dred Scott decision of 1857 which declared blacks were legal non-persons. Yet, this did not make them non-human. You seriously want to equate a human w/ a cow & abortion w/ hamburgers? How is this not a slap?
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I am seriously equating an innocent life of a 1st trimester FETUS...a lima-bean with buds... to an innocent life of an animal. Yes, you are right. This is crazy because the animal is whole, alive and has some level of sentience. They are not comparable at all.
So you admit "We say that killing is an option. An OPTION. A CHOICE. To be made by the woman and NO ONE else." Abortion is killing a human. Not a limabean w/ buds. A human being. True, not a legal person, but it WAS a legal person on Jan 21, 1973. It could easily be a legal person again someday. If it were a legal person, would you defend its right to live? Of course not. You want the right to kill another human being IF don't want it to be born alive. If it being alive would hinder you.
Actually, you can have a medical abortion up till ***** 9 ****** weeks. and yea I kno this for a FACT
cowgirlstar26 1 year ago
Abortion is my friend
HowardSternn 1 year ago
"My apologies for my error Janvier "Thats ok.
Janvierireland 3 years ago
Its you that need to learn biology.
Janvierireland 3 years ago
When I mentioned opinion,I mean that taking a morning after pill after been raped can be validly seen as wrong but acording to my opinion I see SOME justification particularly to AIM to stop conception.Taking a morning when after having had consensual sex or having abortions is not an opinion,it is factually wrong and an injustice to both mother and the unborn.
Janvierireland 3 years ago
I don,t agree with your account names
Janvierireland 3 years ago
Reportedyou,Now for my opinion,if raped a woman should take the morning after pill to aim to stop a conception.Now for fact again,later abortions are absolutely cruel to both mother and the unborn and for this reason is completely wrong.
Janvierireland 3 years ago
Reportedyou,You seem to think that somehow a fetus is some kind of evil being who just decided to deliberatly "invade" is mothers body,when the reality is that pregnancy which you and Sanger call a loss of control over a womans body is the fault of the woman herself and the biological father,not the fetus'fault.The previously mentioned in this comment is FACT.
Janvierireland 3 years ago
A woman exercising control over her own body is when she decides to have sex, and whether anyone likes it or not pregnancy is what the physical act of sex is for (in addition to mutual love),so if a woman does not want a child,she should not have sex or use the rhythm method.Rape is the situation where a woman does not have control over her own body,not when she becomes pregnant from consensual sex.
Janvierireland 3 years ago
I am not male,I am a 25 year old woman,SillyNeneGetsAborted.Just to let you know.
Janvierireland 3 years ago
So Basically sillynene seems to think that women who grieve a miscarriage the same as the death of a born child and pregnant women who call their fetus, a baby are deluded or probably insane or something.
Janvierireland 3 years ago
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Janvier, I know you are completely obtuse and incapable of comprehending anything beyond a 2nd gr.level, but let me voice my opinion on this ONCE AGAIN! I (STILL) think a woman grieving a miscarriage absolutely believe in THEIR HEARTS that the fetus they carry is a BABY. It is all relative. I've had miscarriages and I've mourned. I PERSONALLY mourned more the "thought" of the baby I would NEVER KNOW than the loss of an actual living sentient child. DO NOT recap MY THOUGHTS - u r ALWAYS wrong!
SillyNeNe 3 years ago
Just because a mother did not get the chance to get to know her own baby because of a miscarriage and mourns it,she is not mourning over nothing so therefore she IS mourning over a the loss of a unborn baby that was an actual living sentient unborn baby-it is also perfectly understandable that she would eventually get over the death of this unborn baby and it is no-ones fault if the death of the fetus/unborn was as a result of miscarriage.
Janvierireland 3 years ago
embryo,fetus newborn baby,child,adolescent,adult,severely disabled person,elderly person are all each human beings and all each have the right to life.And no one has the right to have any one of these killed if they feel that any one of them is an inconvenience to them.
Janvierireland 3 years ago
There should be better support(financial,psychological,educational and career)for single pregnant women.These supports would cause a drop in the number of abortions.
Janvierireland 3 years ago
Domestic Adoptions have dropped because of abortions.There are ,as you knoe, epidurals and excellent medicine in both North America and Europe,so there is no need to fear childbirth as much as it was in the past.Adoption is one of the only two options, the other being raising the child oneself.Abortion=killing=infanticide and is not a naturally valid option.
Janvierireland 3 years ago
Refusing to go through nine months from a pregnancy which resulted from consensual sex is also unjust against infertile couples who want to adopt a baby.
Janvierireland 3 years ago
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"Refusing to go through 9 months of a pregnancy which resulted from consensual sex is also unjust against infertile couples who want to adopt a baby."
Refusing to give blood is unjust against those who NEED it.
Vegans who refuse to drink milk are unjust against those who are lactose intolerant.
Lazy people who do not exercise are unust against those in wheelchairs.
Rich people who do not give the majority of their money to charity are unjust against those impoverished.
ridiculous
SillyNeNe 3 years ago
Speaking of "choice",an adult who murders another adult also made a choice so if everyone were to follow the logic of Pro- choice everyone would be allowed to do whatever they wanted even if that choice violates the right to life of others.We cannot be selective -if murder is wrong,then it is wrong from conception to death from natural causes
Janvierireland 3 years ago
An abortion is equally unjust as killing a disabled person or a newborn child just because someone does not want them."Also there is adoption for parents who dont want their baby."[my comment](Just to clarify)Giving one,s biological child up for adoption is an option for parens who do not want their biological child.
Janvierireland 3 years ago
This video is incorrect. You forgot to mention that after the third week of conception, you can detect a heartbeat.
kcballintyp 3 years ago
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"This video is incorrect. You forgot to mention that after the third week of conception, you can detect a heartbeat."
And so what does that mean? You are in favor of abortions until a heartbeat can be detected? Does having a heartbeat make the fetus a viable, sentient human being able to sustain life outside of the womb? Does detecting a heartbeat give the fetus rights OVER the woman carrying it?
SillyNeNe 3 years ago
"What do you say to women who mourn miscarriages?Do you think that they are mourning over nothing or over no-one?Or what about stillbirths?Do you think that they are insane for mourning over the dead fetus?I am referring to other women in this comment and not to you." You still have,nt answered this comment.
Janvierireland 3 years ago
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Actually, I have answered this comment OVER and OVER and OVER...etc. again.
But for the learning impaired (oh, that's you, janvier) I will reply once again.
Now pay attention...this is growing weary...
If a woman WANTS a baby and a pregnancy, then from the start, the zygote/embryo/fetus is a BABY to her. TO HER. It is HER baby. SO of course she will mourn its loss. (I have 3 times now.) HOWEVER, if the pregnancy is unwanted, the blog of dividing cells is just that to the woman.
SillyNeNe 3 years ago
It is wrong and absurd to declare someone not human when his/her mother does not want them before birth.Whether or not the fetus/unborn baby is wanted by his/her parents or not the fetus/unborn baby is still a human being and still has the right to life and the right to be born.Also there is adoption for parents who dont want their baby.
Janvierireland 3 years ago
Saying that the unborn fetus is not a baby is undermining the mother who is looking forward to the baby.Basically the woman who calls her unborn 'a baby' IS being accurate and it is not something that is emotional,it is logical too when she calls the unborn 'a baby'.It is a human being anyway whether one calls the unborn a baby or fetus or embryo.
Janvierireland 3 years ago
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"The current reasoning used for abortion now, could easily be manipulated into reasoning for killing infants, children,&adults. Already happening."
Are you kidding me, still??
ONE lunatic rants about something that NO ONE is going to support...and definitely not society as a whole...and that makes it "happening"??
Well...the Jews better watch out cuz there are still neo-nazi skin heads out there...
I guess African Americans better watch out...KKK might bring back slavery...
c'mon!
SillyNeNe 3 years ago
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All the majority of women ask is to lead their OWN lives according to their OWN morals and beliefs and be in charge of THEIR OWN BODIES... WITHOUT YOU or any one else (ie the government) FORCING them to do otherwise against their will. That can't be that much to ask.
SillyNeNe 3 years ago
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Abstainence is NOT a solution unless you are a priest or a nun...oh wait. And then not even as we have learned, huh?
Um...no...I am all for a woman being RESPONSIBLE and using one of those 99% effective birth controls and then if it FAILS, having the OPTION to CHOOSE what is best FOR HER.
But "freedom" is only free if there are no restrictions placed upon it. It is not for me to judge as to what is a "valid" reason or not. The woman ALONE has this power over herown body.
SillyNeNe 3 years ago
you forget that many girls are nagged into consenting to sex and that artificial birth control has a 20% failure rate and if a woman is on some other medication that the effects of any other drug cancels out the effectiveness of the pill,the iud can perforate the uterus,condoms frequently break.Furthermore Unfortunately women are not complete completely free because our society is male dominated-for example prostitution still exists.
Janvierireland 3 years ago
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"disgusting and horrible" is your opinion and you are entitled to it.
I do not think sucking out a fetus a 1/2" to 3" long is disgusting at all. And of course I have already stated many times how I am against 2nd & 3rd tri abortions, so my "CHOICE"doesn't fight for those at all.
Have you ever watched childbirth? Disgusting is one word that DEFINITELY comes to my mind. But of course, that is just MY opinion, too.
SillyNeNe 3 years ago
ok so childbirth of course does look disgusting and is painful for the mother but neither the mother or the child is being killed and in the western world medicine is good and therefore we have epidurals and so on.
"And of course I have already stated many times how I am against 2nd & 3rd tri abortions, so my "CHOICE"doesn't fight for those at all."You are correct in being against 2nd and 3rd trimester abortions but a fetus is human being in the 1st three months also.
Janvierireland 3 years ago
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"find a better way to end unwanted pregnancies""Why would Planned Parenthood even bother, when they get the vast majority of their money from abortions alone?"
That is ridiculous! You act like any person who does believe or think like you do is a Heathen. There must be an agenda?
By your (ridiculous) way of thinking, there will also never be a cure for cancer. WHY would an oncologist or drug companies find a cure when they make the vast majority of their money from people WITH cancer?
SillyNeNe 3 years ago
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cont...
Furthermore, WHY is it the SOLE responsibility of Planned Parenthood to create better birth control?
YOU are the one against abortions, not them.
So why doesn't some PRO-LIFERS come together, hire scientists and doctors, and find a solution?
WHY?
Because you aren't about solutions. It's all about problems and complaining, right?
Fingerpointing is MUCh easier and more convenient than actually DOING something to make a difference.
SillyNeNe 3 years ago
They rtegret it because it is a human being who they paid someone to kill.And every human being has the roght to live.Abortion is as equally cruel as killing a newborn.
Janvierireland 3 years ago
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"Abortion is as equally cruel as killing a newborn."
This is ONLY your opinion & in MY opinion, not true what-so-ever.
There is a HUGE-ASS difference between having a fetus die inside you (killed by GOD) and having one of your ACTUAL, born and living CHILDREN die!! If you think otherwise, you
1)DO NOT have children.
2)have had the GOOD FORTUNE of never experiencing a miscarriage.
3)have had the GOOD FORTUNE of never having one of your ACTUAL children DIE or their life threatened.
SillyNeNe 3 years ago
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cont...
I have lived through ALL THREE, and I can tell you without ONE DOUBT that there is NO comparison AT ALL!
And I pray you never do know the difference and remain ignorant and believing what you pathetically do.
SillyNeNe 3 years ago
I have never said that a child that has been born sickness death is insignificant ever and I am mot personally attacking you or what happened to you-I am only against your pro-abortion beliefs(and beliefs are all that they are).
I am sorry for all the stresses that you have went through.
Janvierireland 3 years ago
What do you say to women who mourn miscarriages?Do you think that they are mourning over nothing or over no-one?Or what about stillbirths?Do you think that they are insane for mourning over the dead fetus?I am referring to other women in this comment and not to you.
Janvierireland 3 years ago
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No,"blaming" and "punishing" trigger words used by you pro-lifers to sway the weak minded.
That is fine. Use such tactics on a woman about to have an abortion to change her mind.
As for those of us who are intelligent and not emotionally connected to a pregnancy at this time, we see through it.
If a woman chooses to end a pregnancy, she is not "blaming" the fetus or even "punishing" it. She simply does not want to go through a pregnancy.
And it sounds okay because it IS okay.
SillyNeNe 3 years ago
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Nope. COMPLETELY illogical and COMPLETELY unrealistic. still.
Being pro-choice is about a woman and her reproductive rights. Once born, this is no longer an issue. You can spin it however you wish, but to think ACTUAL, LIVING, SENTIENT babies BORN INTO THIS WORLD could be killed because of abortion being legal is not only a ridiculous and invalid comparison, it is COMPLETELY
ILLOGICAL
and
UNREALISTIC!
...still
SillyNeNe 3 years ago
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sumitup:"Women just need to be smarter about their sexual activities."
In a perfect world, with perfect people (like yourself) this would be true. But some people are not smart. Do not follow the rules. Have their OWN moral standards and beliefs....geeeezzz what is wrong with them? It's like they want to live in a country where they are 'free' to make choices pertaining to their own bodies. WHy don't they prefer to live in as a communist under your ruling? WHAT is wrong w/them??!
SillyNeNe 3 years ago
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sumpitup: "Then I think, you should get your tubes tied. You're old enough and mature enough to make the decision."
Thank you for unsolicited advice to have yet another (and unnecessary) invasive surgery so I can support YOUR beliefs, but I respectfully decline that thought and will take my <1% chance with the birth control I use instead.
And you are right. I AM old enough and mature enough to make that DECISION for MYSELF!
SillyNeNe 3 years ago
And(to continue from 'the fact that pregnancy puts a strain on a womans body would prove my point) Its ludicrous when pro-'choice'ers claim abortion has absolutely no effect on a womans body and also claim that pregnancy is health or life endangering.Of course pregnancy is a strain and childbirth uncomfortable but because abortion is an interference in a womans natural bodily processes of pregnancy,it is damaging in the long term
Janvierireland 3 years ago
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Seriously Janvier...just stick to the facts you know. You ramble on with false propoganda and lies and just sound foolish. Who cares what an abortion does to the body? Is a GROWN ADULT woman not able to decide what is right or wrong for her own body? You can die from drinking too much beer! You can die from smoking! You ride roller coasters "at your own risk". C'mon! This is 2008...adult women do not need "raising" or "controlling". Least of all by you.
SillyNeNe 3 years ago
"Is a GROWN ADULT woman not able to decide what is right or wrong for her own body? You can die from drinking too much beer! You can die from smoking!" C'mon! This is 2008...adult women do not need "raising" or "controlling"" Actually yes adults do need to be saved from doing damage to themselves and they are (drugs are illegal etc),and it is not only women.Alos abortion should be banned to help women also.
Janvierireland 3 years ago
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I think this ridiculous reply speaks for itself.
You believe YOU are the "PEOPLE POLICE" of the WORLD and would CONTROL EVERY aspect of a person's life? WHY? Why do you feel the need to control ADULT human beings? I was not aware of the 2nd coming of Christ. (in you)
SO I guess you are on here fighting to ban cigarettes, alcohol, junk food, sugar and the MILLIONS of other things "bad" for us??
I pity you and your pathetic existence. It is just so sad.
SillyNeNe 3 years ago
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"Of course pregnancy is a strain and childbirth uncomfortable" Spoken like a true blue woman who has NEVER had children! lmfao! UNCOMFORTABLE??!?!!! I had MAJOR surgery! Hospitalized for 5 days. After my D&C (SAME procedure as a 1st TRI suction abortion) I went home about an hour later and had no side effects what so ever...ya, you know what you are talking about!
SillyNeNe 3 years ago
"Prohibition has never worked. Has history taught you nothing?"Actually it did,the numbers of women who were killing themselves using backaley abortion and coathaners was low in coparison to today.The idea that it was common is pro-abortion propaganda.If pregnancy is hard on a woman,abortion is also and abortion is something that can be avoided while once pregnant it is too late.
Janvierireland 3 years ago
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"abortion is an interference in a womans natural bodily processes of pregnancy,it is damaging in the long term"
You honestly need to stop. This is beyond foolish and your invalid false deductive propoganda is offensive.
This entire statement you have made is NOT true. BUT EVEN IF IT WERE....it is STILL a woman's CHOICE whether or not to go through with it.
Prohibition has never worked. Has history taught you nothing?
Stick to the only valid argument, the issue of the unborn.
SillyNeNe 3 years ago
It is not a woamsn choice for two reasons firstly she does not have the right to have herself harmed and secondly she does not have the right to have people(the so called surgeons) kill her own son or daughter
Janvierireland 3 years ago
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"It is not a woamsn choice for two reasons firstly she does not have the right to have herself harmed"
No no no...you have that all wrong~
YOU do not have the right to DECIDE what is harmfully wrong for a person to do to THEIR OWN BODY! Do you fight equally hard against elective surgery like face lifts? This not only can potentially harm the woman physically (even end in death), but can cause major emotional and psychological damage as well. You are a joke.
SillyNeNe 3 years ago
Yes the unborn are valid persons.
Janvierireland 3 years ago
So women dont want to be treated as a person and instead want to be trated as an object,a means to an end for somebody elses(a mans) sole self gratification?They must have low or no self esteem
Janvierireland 3 years ago
True at least in the case of unhealthy food and cosmetic surgerry for vanity reasons,the person is only harming himself/herself.
Janvierireland 3 years ago
Even some radical feminist groups who agree with abortion don,t see abortion as birth control but you seem to see it as birth control.
Janvierireland 3 years ago
Sillynene even people who advocate artificial methods of birth control never see abortion as contraception.Futhermore there are people who agree with contraception and completely disagree with abortion,so there are many types of pro life people.Although artificial birth control can be a cause of a man demanding sex from the wife when she dosen,t want it.If abortion is logical then its also logical to kill a newborn-abortion is as equally cruel as kiling a newborn
Janvierireland 3 years ago
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"I'm talking the basic right to LIVE. Is the basic right to live subject to age, size, skill? (Or anything else?)"
Well, if you are talking about a natural right to life, then some might argue it is survival of the fittest. This rule is present everywhere in nature.
"The power to decide that an unborn baby has no right to live, can easily be waved in favor of killing born children."
That is ridiculous false propaganda pro-lifers would try to have us believe. It is completely illogical.
SillyNeNe 3 years ago
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"The studies I've quoted never said that it was #1. Just a link my dear."
And that information is invalid in THIS argument, my dear.
Whether or not there are side effects to abortions has no bearing on whether or not they should be legal, my dear.
SillyNeNe 3 years ago
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"And 97% of all abortions are out of convenience. If women didn't want to get pregnant or have kids so bad, maybe they should figure out a way without taking away someone else's basic right to LIVE."
EXACTLY what the majority of pro-choicers are saying! YES!! Pro-lifers should STOP worrying so much about abortions and try to find a BETTER way to END unwanted pregnancies, ie: better contraceptives.
No unwanted pregnancies = NO abortions.
Simple math isn't it?
SillyNeNe 3 years ago
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"If she's pregnant, she still had sex. Obviously, she didn't take ALL possible precautions."
Only 1 immaculate conception recorded in history, so you are correct. She CHOSE to have sex, she USED contraception and IT FAILED. Now she has another choice...keep the pregnancy or not.
"Well, that control could have been exercised before getting pregnant."
Right, I CHOOSE to have sex. Control of MY OWN body. If a woman is responsible and her contraception fails, she now has a choice to make.
SillyNeNe 3 years ago
That is irresponsible.You have just provent o me that there are women who see abortion as just another method of birth control and abortion is never ever to be regarded as birth control.I disagree with artificial birth control when ii is used to facilitate out of wedlock sex but if it is used in a marriage where a couple are prepared to accept any child from an unplanned pregnancy then ok.
Janvierireland 3 years ago
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Ya, I'm not going to go round and round about something that really doesn't matter anyway. ORIGINALLY you JUST brought up the subject of how abortions hurt women. THAT WAS ALL. You made no mention of the fetus...JUST that abortions cause breast cancer. THAT is what my reply was to. NOW you are adding more. In reply to that, there is no way to save the unborn fetus without taking away both the woman's reproductive rights as well as her own body.
SillyNeNe 3 years ago
A womans reproductive rights are rightful only when she refuses sex because she absolutely does not want a baby.
Janvierireland 3 years ago
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"Was there anything else other than a c section that you were worried about..?"
For one, I already have 3 children and do not want more. Second, I am 40 years old. With this fabulous age comes MANY risk factors not only to me but to the unborn. And yes, my womb could not sustain yet another c-section. If my birth control fails, it should me MY choice whether or not to risk my life and leave my ACTUAL children without a mother!!
SillyNeNe 3 years ago
Most woman who has abortions regret it and you are not one of the women who have had an abortion.My aunt had a c-section and my cousin(her son) was delivered prematurely at 7 months gestation.She had 2 more children via c-sections after this,so that was hard for her.
Janvierireland 3 years ago
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"Most woman who has abortions regret it."
Many women who have sex regret it. Should we tell all women to stop for risk of regretting it?
Most women who over-eat or eat chocolate regret it. Should we all stop eating so no one will have regret again?
Some who drink will become alcoholics...should alcohol be banned for all because of the few who will be effected?
Prohibition has NEVER worked. History speaks for itself. But you keep trying to control the earth...it's what you do best.
SillyNeNe 3 years ago
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"Then she should have made the decision to NOT get pregnant. Maybe they should have taken proper precautions BEFORE getting pregnant."
OH...so if a woman takes GREAT measure NOT to get pregnant and STILL DOES...she is "allowed" an abortion?
MOST abortions are because of FAILED birth control. Perhaps pro-lifers should stop the "holier than thou" attitudes and look into better contraception.
SillyNeNe 3 years ago
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Once again, it is GREAT argument for the purpose of what it was intended. NOT to compare doing these things directly to getting an abortion, but the fact that WE HAVE CHOICES WHERE OUR BODIES are concerned and what happens to them.
ONCE AGAIN, your argument was NOT what abortion does to the fetus but what it does to THE WOMAN...like MY EXAMPLES...pertaining to the WOMAN...did I spell it out enough now? Something is not invalid because you cannot COMPREHEND it.
SillyNeNe 3 years ago
Women are important too just like any other human being young or old and pregancy being a natural process is the reason why it damages the woman.A small number of women have actully died from legal and so called safe abortions.
Janvierireland 3 years ago
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"But don't you think it's a little bit funny that the this group that founded the link false, contradicts many more.."
DROP THE BREAST CANCER ISSUE ALREADY! good God!
It is NOT A VALID ARGUMENT so drop it already.
Go argue on a breast cancer vlog if you are so passionate about it.
My mother-in-law has nursed 7 children, never smoked or did drugs and she is DYING of breast cancer right now. ABORTIONS are NOT the #1 cause of this and STILL would be a woman's choice even if it were.
SillyNeNe 3 years ago
SUMITUPTWOTIMES did not say that abortion is the only caue of breast cancer but it is one of the causes.Not every woman who had an abortion done on her will be damaged the same way,but there is always some type of damage done to her body and frequently her mental health.
Janvierireland 3 years ago
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janvier:"did not say that abortion is the only caue of breast cancer but it is one of the causes."
And it is STILL her right to have that procedure in spite of the risks to her health. JUST LIKE any other medical/surgical procedure.
SillyNeNe 3 years ago
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"...but there is always some type of damage done to her body and frequently her mental health."
This is simply NOT true. There is NOT ALWAYS some type of damage done to her body. I have had 3 D&C's...no damage done.
There is, however, PLENTY of damage done to my body from the three actual pregnancies and births I've had! Sooooo by YOUR way of thinking, I should have aborted them all and ended any risk to my body? Nah, I CHOSE to have my children IN SPITE of the risks!
SillyNeNe 3 years ago
"Sooooo by YOUR way of thinking, I should have aborted them all and ended any risk to my body? Nah, I CHOSE to have my children IN SPITE of the risks!"Certainly I would never say its ok to have an abortion.The fact that pregnancy puts a strain on a womans body would prove my point.
Janvierireland 3 years ago
Women who have had abortions frequently get breast cancer but there are also women who have never had abortions that get breast cancer.SO IT IS ONE CAUSE OF BREAST CANCER
Janvierireland 3 years ago
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"So whether or not someone has rights or not, depends on his/her size, age, or skill?"
Of course they do! Many social rights are based on age. Do children have the right to vote, drive, drink alchohol???
Besides the fact that there ARE cases where a woman's life is on the line should she carry out a pregnancy. (In my case, for example. Not only would my age be a risk factor, but the fact that I have already had 6 pregnancies and 3 c-sections.)
Regardless, her body, her choice.
SillyNeNe 3 years ago
So,everyone do you all think that when a woman mourns the loss of her unborn offspring when she has a miscarriage that she is being foolish?Because I don,t think that she is foolish.
Janvierireland 3 years ago
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janvier:"..do you all think that when a woman mourns the loss of her unborn offspring when she has a miscarriage that she is being foolish?"
I don't believe personal emotions are ever foolish because they are very real for the person feeling them, of course. I was VERY sad for the 3 miscarriages I had...however, I TRIED to get pregnant and WANTED a baby.
Do you think foolish the feelings of a woman forced into sex (not raped but coerced) and finds herself unwantingly pregnant?
SillyNeNe 3 years ago
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"And you used bad examples of "legal" things to make your argument.
Abortion hurts a woman, affects her health..."
And this is YOUR opinion and my opinion is you are WRONG.
So eating fast food doesn't effect a woman's health? When she becomes obese, there are no physical or psychological effects? c'mon...I KNOW you are truly not this obtuse.
The examples I gave are ALL legal and ALL hurt a woman and ALL our HER choice...still...not yours.
SillyNeNe 3 years ago
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Furthermore, your argument IS invalid BECAUSE it DOES NOT MATTER WHAT side effects CAN occur, a person has the right to decide WHAT happens to his/her OWN body. PERIOD.
I never said ALL of the side effects you claim to be false. But I did say that the very same effects AND MORE can happen with most of the "legal" drugs approved by the FDA.
And AGAIN, a man/woman can seek out ELECTIVE surgeries and procedures. They CAN DIE. Many things can go wrong.
STILL their right.
SillyNeNe 3 years ago
It is claimed that abortion is liberating for women and the point of mentioning the harms that abortion does to women is to show that it is not liberating for women.
By the way abortion is unnecessary because pregnancy is not a disease but it would also be wrong to seek out elective surgery such as cosmetic surgery like Michael Jackson did or to change ones gender because it is harmful to the person who wants these surgeries
Janvierireland 3 years ago
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"By the way abortion is unnecessary because pregnancy is not a disease but it would also be wrong to seek out elective surgery such as cosmetic surgery like Michael Jackson did..."
ARE YOU KIDDING ME??!! NOW you are going to also tell people whether or not they should be able to get cosmetic surgery, etc.??
You are far worse of a CONTROL FREAK than I originally thought. WOW!
Let's just tell everyone that EVERY move they make must be run by JANVIER first...you are unbelievable!
SillyNeNe 3 years ago
You say you wanted the baby that you aborted,but the thing is that even when there are risks such as in your case,the fetus/ child should be allowed to live because no parent actually owns their child and no parent owns their childs life so the fetos has the right to its own life because he or she is separate from his or her father and mother.When kids become teenagers they remind their parents of this by saying "its my life"or "you dont own me".And they are right.
Janvierireland 3 years ago
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"You say you wanted the baby that you aborted,but the thing is that even when there are risks such as in your case,the fetus/ child should be allowed to live..."
First of all, I never had an abortion...not sure where you got that from. I had a D&C of a dead fetus before it could miscarry on its own...which is the EXACT same procedure AS an abortion...was that the confusion?
AND, why is a fetus's life worth more than the woman carrying it now? EVEN if the woman could die, she cannot abort?
SillyNeNe 3 years ago
(By the way the word fetus is not dehumanising-it simply means 'offspring' in Latin-much like saying neonate for newborn,adolescent for teenager).
Ok,You did not have an abortion so your unborn son or daughter/fetus died naturally so you did not get something to kill it because that would have been an abortion,so why did you want to have your dead unborn childs body dismembered?I know that c-sections are very unpleasant so I am not minimising in any way your experiences of c-sections.
Janvierireland 3 years ago
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"so why did you want to have your dead unborn childs body dismembered?"
WHAT are you talking about? Janvier, you frequently talk out of your ass and it is annoying.
SillyNeNe 3 years ago
This was in reference to the D & C that you had to have because the fetus(your dead unborn childs body) was already dead and that you would have miscarried.Your reply to my comment which was"so why did you want to have your dead unborn childs body dismembered?"A fetus is an unborn child
Janvierireland 3 years ago
Of course obesity harms health and eating fast food is legal but the difference is that the person eating harms only him/herself while in abortion the woman is harmed by the abortionist and kills her own offspring.Also excess weight can be lost but a woman cannot undo the killing of her unborn child which a large number of women come to regret.
Janvierireland 3 years ago
Was there anything else other than a c section that you were worried about in having another baby?
Janvierireland 3 years ago
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"And people like you only legitimatize health risks in carrying a baby to term. That doesn't calm the fear of having a baby."
No, the FACTS legitimize the ACTUAL health risks, pain and fear involved in having a baby. And I am glad for it! People SHOULD NOT take bringing a child into this world lightly and there IS something to fear. It was great birth control for me until I was REALLY ready. Then I didn't care, I wanted a child and got pregnant KNOWING the risks (and pain) involved.
SillyNeNe 3 years ago
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And I will say AGAIN, that it HAS been found to be false and REGARDLESS of the findings it is a person's right to seek an abortion no matter what the risks to her person since it is HER body.
And I will say it again, that the UNBORN FETUS should NOT have rights that will spersede and take away rights of the woman it is inside. Thanfully, the vast majority agrees and abortion IS legal.
But I respect your OPINION on the subject.
SillyNeNe 3 years ago
Preganc does not limit a womans life or her right to live.Its natures way that a woman survives pregnancy so that she is there for the child throughout the pregnancy and for when he or she is born
Janvierireland 3 years ago
A law against abortion does not limit a womans rights to her own body, a man using a woman for casual sex is a womans body being used for someone else
Janvierireland 3 years ago
a baby or child also only lives because his or her parents provide for him/her and feed him/her and cause exhaustion of the parents in general thereby born children also have an effect on the parents body and rightly no one asks that they be kiled.Lokewise the unborn should not be killed
Janvierireland 3 years ago
sumituptwotimes,you have excellent statements here and another thing is why is it that a lot of women dont say "its my body" to the man or men with whom alot of women choose to have sex with in an uncommitted relationship?
Janvierireland 3 years ago
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janvier:"why is it that a lot of women dont say "its my body" to the man or men with whom alot of women choose to have sex with in an uncommitted relationship?"
Maybe because they WANT to have sex? Janvier, not everyone lives in 1942 as you do. Women today actually ENJOY having sex and not always forced into or consider it a "duty". They ARE saying "my body" when they choose to have sex.
SillyNeNe 3 years ago
It is disrespectful for a woman on the part of a man to use her for a one night stand as if she were a sex toy and not a human being.But besides that if a man and a woman do not want children then they should not be having sex because whether you,I or anyone else would like it to be that way or not,sexual intercourse is for procreation.Artificial Contraception has a 10 to 20% failure rate.
Janvierireland 3 years ago
By the way biology and the fact that sexual intercourse = pregnancy/baby is far older than 1942!Having intercourse =pregnancy just as swallowing food=nourishment,E=mc2,breathing=taking in oxygen and exhaling,-------Its,s a scientific reality.
Janvierireland 3 years ago
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"By the way biology and the fact that sexual intercourse = pregnancy/baby is far older than 1942!"
You are so obtuse you cannot even comprehend the ribbing you just received.
It is your way of thinking that women don't LIKE or WANT sex and men FORCE them into unwantingly all the time which is from 1942.
If you recall, I was replying to your original question as to "why women can say MY BODY for abortion not to the men in the first place not to have sex."
BECAUSE they WANT sex!
SillyNeNe 3 years ago
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I was replying to YOUR orginal statement regarding all of the negative effects an abortion has ON THE WOMAN.
THAT was your original argument and thus my reply to the numerous other "legal" things that hurt a woman but still remain available and legal.
THE ARGUMENT that abortion hurts the WOMAN is not valid and you need a better argument.
SillyNeNe 3 years ago
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OF COURSE being pro-choice means that I must make abortions available and legal to those who would seek them...hence the CHOICE. It is not MINE or YOURS to make.
But for the record, I am personally against abortion and would not seek one except for medical reasons.
But I am NOT into controlling others and would leave this decision up to them.
Willingness to give a person control over her own body is NOT saying you are Pro-abortion.
SillyNeNe 3 years ago
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"Abortion that is done without threat to the mother's life has no logical reason. The reasoning behind most abortions is emotion."
According to WHO'S logic?? YOURS?! It is logical and valid the THE WOMAN seeking the abortion. Yes, emotions may play into it...but I believe it is emotions that would stop a woman, rather than lead her to, getting an abortion.
Again, how the WOMAN "feels" is her right and hers alone.
SillyNeNe 3 years ago
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Your claim linking breast cancer and abortions is COMPLETELY false. As for other side-effects, again, these are the exception, NOT the rule as you would have others believe.
And even if EVERY abortion carried some side effect, it is still NOT your right or a valid argument to your pro-life stance as (once again) this is the WOMAN's decision to make for HER OWN body. Just like ANY elective prodedure...plastic surgery, sterilization, etc. HER choice...NOT yours.
SillyNeNe 3 years ago
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"And abortion is not healthy. The health risks involved are pretty dangerous."
A FIRST TRIMESTER abortion is much less dangerous than a full term pregnancy and delivery.
Not to mention, drinking is not healthy. Fast food is not healthy. There are MANY things we do to and put in our bodies that is not healthy. But guess what? That is OUR RIGHT and OUR CHOICE.
I had c-sections...don't tell me what is riskier for ME...another pregnancy or an abortion?
SillyNeNe 3 years ago
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sumitup:"RTA- According to the law, killing your child is ok. Like according to the law, a time ago, slavery was ok... the law is wrong, yet again."
There are MANY laws I do not agree with, but society as a whole does. Yes, slavery was wrong. Should we throw out ALL of the laws and start over based on that?
It is only YOUR opinion that abortion is wrong. Not a fact.
SillyNeNe 3 years ago
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So then we can euthanize the fetus first and then we will know FOR SURE there is not pain.
Problem solved.
SillyNeNe 3 years ago
Its rejecting the belief that abortion is somehow liberating for women that helps.Anyway did you know that the porn magazine Playboy has a foundation which contributes money to planned parenthood and as you know playboy is anti-woman.And also that abortion is used to eliminate female foetuses in China and India.Proves that Abortion is not so feminist after all.
Janvierireland 3 years ago
I thought that I made it clear to you that I actually DID NOT think you were pro"choice".What I was trying to tell you was that the claims of those people who call themselves pro-choice that they are supporting womens health is false and spurious and that as well as being pro life because it kills a very young human being,you should also oppose abortion because abortion damages womens health always physically to varying degrees and frequently also has mentally traumatic effects
Janvierireland 3 years ago
In actual fact I did not think that you are pro-"choice".But you should be against abortion because it is harmful to women as well as the fact that it is the killing of an unborn baby.
Janvierireland 3 years ago
I am glad that you can give the scientific facts sumituptwotimes about early fetal development but did you know that abortion is harmful to womens health?
Janvierireland 3 years ago
My baby was jumping and stretching her arms and legs at 11 weeks of age. You can see it in my video "pro life"
Let's see if this user allows me to link it to her video.
Little Moira was very responsive at our first ultrasound. Seeing is believing. Nobody has the right to kill an innocent human.
thealphacrow 3 years ago
Thank you for your well informed and honenst video. See that pro life?
jaythewicked 3 years ago
sillynene,you are right, a woman should not have to have a reason to give to her male partner for not having sex.Also some men think being his 'girlfriend' or being married legitimses his use of her for casual sex when,where and how only he wants it without due regard for what she wants(not to have sex).
Janvierireland 3 years ago
If a comatose person on a life support machine is human,take him/her out of the hospital entirely.If a newborn is human let him/her out in the middle of nowhere.Your reasoning is faulty as are these sentences.The word "fetus" means litle one or offspring therefore it is not a dehumanising word just like,toddler,adolescent
Janvierireland 3 years ago
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You are forgetting that for a person in a coma and/or on life-support does not effect or harm another person's body and/or infringe on their rights in any way.
Of course when I say let the fetus be delivered, it would be to the same care that any newborn would receive.
IF IN FACT it is a person, deliver it and let it live.
Any OTHER human needing life assistance can receive this from ANY machine and/or ANY living person. If a fetus is a PERSON as you say, it will, too.
SillyNeNe 3 years ago
Pregnancy does not harm a womans body in any wany or infringe her rights because no one you me or anyone else deliberately brought oneself into existence when we were fetuses.However the mother and father did,so the least they should do is the duty to let him/her develop and be born
Janvierireland 3 years ago
You are forgetting that yes there are many people who are in a coma and are considered inconvenient to their relative or society-but are human-there would be no euthanasia controversy.Likewise a fetus deserves to live just like a person in a coma does.Also both severely disabled and moderately disabled people depend on their carer for life and this does have effects on the carer(exhaustion)and they are human as a fetus is.
Janvierireland 3 years ago
No child is an accident.When in marriage there is no problem with an unexpected pregnancy because the father is there to support the woman and child.Vasectomy sometimes dont work.If every woman aborted because of depression,then there would be a significant drop in the human population in Europe,North America Australia and New Zealand.Abortion makes depression worse because of the disruption of hormones incl.oxytocin
Janvierireland 3 years ago
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Janvier, I was not speaking to you and since your way of thinking is not only incorrect but antiquated, I prefer not to converse further dialogue with you. You state opinion as fact and you act like we still live in the 19th century. ("When in marriage there is no problem with an unexpected pregnancy because the father is there to support the woman and child." perfect example with that statement.) I thought I made this clear already.
SillyNeNe 3 years ago
Biology never becomes antiqated.When the mother is supported by her fetuses father or her own parents to provide for the child,the chances are almost nil that she will abort.Secondly in a committed relationship or marriage the woman and the man support each other.Strange that you see a man using a woman for casual sex as 'feminist' and a man and woman loving and supporting each other as antiquated.During pregnancy a woman needs to be looked after more and to rest-maternity leave
Janvierireland 3 years ago
So you think that a woman should not insist that her babys father be responsible for the child,even if she no longer wants or needs him,sillynene?By the way please talk to youtube account name roevswade
Janvierireland 3 years ago
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janvier:"So you think that a woman should not insist that her babys father be responsible for the child,even if she no longer wants or needs him"
I have no clue (as usual) to what you are referencing here. Could you please quote me first so I know what you are responding to and then answer correctly.
SillyNeNe 3 years ago
Basically what I said was that the statistics prove that when a woman is supported (emotionally/psychologically supported) an also financially supported by her husband or partner that the statistics prove that there is an almost nil chance of aborting even if the pregnancy was sudden.Most women who abort are abandoned by their partner/husband or even their own parents.
Janvierireland 3 years ago
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Of course being a NON-PERSON has EVERYTHING to do with whether or not abortion is legal. If the fetus is a non-person (as I have stated), it does NOT have rights as the ACTUAL person does.
That is my point. period.
If is then up to each individual woman as to what this means to her and whether or not abortion or pregnancy is the answer ...FOR HER.
SillyNeNe 3 years ago
The fetus had ACTUAL rights on 1/21/73~it was a legal PERSON. Suddenly, the court took away the rights of personhood, as they have w/ BORN humans throughout history. The fact that the fetus is now a non-person & is denied the right to life has nothing to do w/ the biological facts. You are making a legal argument, while I am making a scientific one. Since abortion is legal & the fetus is not a "person" entitled to rights, then abortion is moral. Because abortion ends a human life, it is immoral.
schochaj 3 years ago
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Actually, I am making both arguments. Bottom line for me is, if the woman doesn't want to be pregnant (her right) take the fetus out and let it live. If it cannot sustain life on its own outside the womb, well then that is just a biological consequence.
SillyNeNe 3 years ago
Thats a killing.By the way they can take a fetus out at 7 months of pregnancy and put fetus in an incubator.
Janvierireland 3 years ago
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If an embryo is a "person", then how is it that we can freeze them and them thaw them and they are alive again? This is not possible with a fully grown, sentient human being. Though many people I know ACT like there is no brain in their head, they would DIE if frozen in this manner and we would NOT be able to bring them back to life.
Please explain how this is possible with the embryo since it is a PERSON.
SillyNeNe 3 years ago
The embryo is not a person, according to the US Supreme Court decision Roe v. Wade. It is legal to kill a tiny embryo or a 38 wk infant...so long as they are inside a petri dish or a womb. The embryo IS a living human & if frozen on day 1, 2, 3, 4, or 5 the number surviving the thaw were 87%, 33%, 43%, 12% & 0% respectfully, so the tiny human can & often does die during the process. The biological process of cell division is slowed/paused at near absolute zero & is possible because of # of cells
schochaj 3 years ago
All one really needs is to look at the stats. Girls who get on some form of birthcontrol increase sexual activity. They feel safe & are in a cerain sense, available. The fear of pregnancy is, in their minds, eliminated (although 50 percent of abortions are on women who were using birthcontrol when she got pregnant)so she really has no good (non-moral) reason not to agree to sex. Add to this that all hormonal birthcontrol & the IUD are potential abortifacients as 1 of their 3 functions.
schochaj 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
All those stats mean is that the girl was ready to become sexually active and was responsible enough to actually GO and GET birth control. Every SINGLE one of my friends was sexually active prior to getting on the pill. Two had abortions before they got smart and went on the pill. True my sex was better and more open since I did not fear getting pregnant. But I was with a boyfriend I had been with for 3 years.
SillyNeNe 3 years ago
That does not mean girls were ready to have sex.When a woman is ready to have sex is when she is ready to accept pregnancy and a thus a baby and also when there is mutual and committd love her and the man.The stats mainly prove that boys pressure girls into sex and this is nagging into consent that I was referring to.
Janvierireland 3 years ago
"SETTING THE WOMENS MOVEMENT BACKWARDS"Artificial contraception and abortion were invented by men.
Janvierireland 3 years ago
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"Artificial contraception and abortion were invented by men."
Because women were not scientists and doctors in that era. It took a WOMAN to fight for safe and legal contraception. Women have the pill because of Margaret Sanger. NOT because of a man.
SillyNeNe 3 years ago
The pill was invented by a man named Carl Djerassi and was available from 1960 onwards..In the 1920,s (Margaret Sangers time) the pill was not invented yet.And it because there were not many women who were doctors and scientists and the majority of doctors and scientists were men , well of course they wouldn,t invent anything that considerably altered the natural functioning of the reproductive system of a man and has
Janvierireland 3 years ago
and has nasty side effects as they considered(and still do consider women and womens bodies as being less important than men and mens bodies.For the same reason the founder of NARAL was a man and because they also consider womens bodies unimportant and are only concerned with making money(planned parenthood)and also dont care about the damage to womens mental and physical health.
Janvierireland 3 years ago
There isn,t much contraception to be used on mens bodies as men are more advantaged in everything and the contraception used on womens' is harmful(the pill,the iud) (and contraception frequently fails) and it causes those who don t want children to have sex.When it fails those who have casual sex use abortion.Contraception frequently leads onto abortion-this is why I am against both.
Janvierireland 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
"men are more advantaged in everything" This is a biological matter. It isn't men over women.
I was on the pill for YEARS. It was not harmful to me in any way. It also did not "MAKE" me have sex. I was sexually active with my boyfriend months BEFORE going on the pill and remained sexually active while in relationships. HOW did it MAKE me have sex? That is an insane (and FALSE) generalization...once again.
And the ONLY way to prevent unwanted preg. is thru contraception. period.
SillyNeNe 3 years ago
I'm glad it wasn't harmful to you in anyway. It is not so for every woman. One friend of mine had an embolism from the pill. Another had severe reactions to the Depo shot. My aunt had to have a total hysterectomy from the IUD. Another friend has been dealing w/ fertility issues her doctor thinks are related to her years on chemical birth control. When scientists tested the male pill, one male had some shrinkage in his testicles. STOP! During female tests, 1 woman died so they lowered the dose.
schochaj 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
I have not had one friend or come in contact with one female I know who has had an adverse effect from the pill.
Does this mean no women have ever? Of course not. But side effects are the exception, not the rule.
Actually, your friend should see another doctor, that one is a quack. I fully researched the pill and it actually makes you more fertile not the other way around. Many fertility doctors actually put women ON the pill to regulate them and sometimes it does work.
SillyNeNe 3 years ago
Research the pill and chemical birth control.
schochaj 3 years ago
Again I am not specifically referring to you,I am referring what the pill and other contraception and abortion gas done to women as a group and the extra incentive that it has given to men as a group to use us women as sex objects i.e things to give men pleasure whenever and however men want it without due consideration for the girls/womans feelings and emotions.
Janvierireland 3 years ago
"NOTHING is healthy about a C-section or post partum"You are correct but c section are sometimes needed to save the life of both the woman/mother and the baby/fetus.Or if hips are too small to push the baby out.
Janvierireland 3 years ago
Men being more advantage in women is more socially constructed but it exploits biology to have men achieving power over women throughout history
Janvierireland 3 years ago
What I meant by exploiting biology is that men use theories of biolgy which dont exist to try to prove non existent and srurios claims of men being superior to women.The fact is that men are not superior to women and vice versa-to whoever gave the thumbs down.
Janvierireland 3 years ago
Abortion and artificial contraception was invented by men so that could have sex using the women on the mens demand.The only justification would be for the morning after pill to be taken within days after a rpe,the aim being to prevent conception or sometimes if a conception has occurred,implantation.
Janvierireland 3 years ago
I fully acknowlege that c-section are sometimes needed and that some women get post partum depresion,they are common but not for every pregnancy.
Janvierireland 3 years ago
FYI~I have had 3 pregnancies & 3 c-sections & zero depression. I had a quick recovery. Vaginal birth is a natural event. It is the woman's body doing what it was designed to do. I don't understand why so many women treat fertility, pregnancy, & birth as a disease that needs to be fixed with chemicals, pills, devices, & surgery. It seems that "equality" means being wombless & able to have consequenceless sex like a man instead of celebrating what women alone are capable of! We fear & dispise it!
schochaj 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Good for you, schochaj. You are a GODDESS!! we are in AWE of you and your excellently working vagina and womb.
For MILLIONS of woment, this just is not the case. WE need c-sections and YES, some get post-partum depression. (Are you related to Tom Cruise now?)
Fear and despise or celebratory pregnancy is ones opinion and ones opinion ONLY.
What you consider a blessing, another considers a burden. This is not right or wrong. And it certainly is NOT for YOU to judge.
SillyNeNe 3 years ago
Why are you so rude & sarcastic? You mentioned your pergnancy experiences. I never responded in the manner you have. I needed 3 c-sections. I HAD 3 c-sections. Just a fact. Thankfully they were without complication. This statement of fact gets me an abnoxious reply? While "fear & dispise" & "celebratory" are indeed opinions (often shaped by society's view of the circumstances surrounding the condition) what is NOT opinion is the fact the unborn is a living human & abortion ends an innocent life.
schochaj 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
No you implication that having a c-section is not big deal and that pregnancy is the better way is what got you a sarcastic reply. Read your statement again. It is a slap to those who not consider being pregnant such a celebration as would you as well as those women who enjoy having meaningless casual sex...yes,just as men do.
The unborn is of human species (though NOT a person) and is as innocent as say the cow killed for your hamburger. I'll give you that.
SillyNeNe 3 years ago
Again, personhood is a legal term...a status that can be confired upon or withheld by those in positions of power, NOT a biological term. The unborn WAS a legal person Jan. 21, 1973. Jan 22, 1973 it became a legal non-person. It has always been & will always be a HUMAN BEING. Similar to the Dred Scott decision of 1857 which declared blacks were legal non-persons. Yet, this did not make them non-human. You seriously want to equate a human w/ a cow & abortion w/ hamburgers? How is this not a slap?
schochaj 3 years ago
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I am seriously equating an innocent life of a 1st trimester FETUS...a lima-bean with buds... to an innocent life of an animal. Yes, you are right. This is crazy because the animal is whole, alive and has some level of sentience. They are not comparable at all.
SillyNeNe 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Let's assume that the 1st trimester fetus is an actual human PERSON for arguments sake.
Even IF this were true, you still cannot take away someone's rights to save another's life.
If I am dying and you have the only blood to save me, NO ONE can make you give me blood.
We know breast milk is the best for the baby, yet the government CANNOT FORCE a women to nurse her child.
You cannot force a woman to carryout an unwanted pregnancy.
SillyNeNe 3 years ago
So you admit "We say that killing is an option. An OPTION. A CHOICE. To be made by the woman and NO ONE else." Abortion is killing a human. Not a limabean w/ buds. A human being. True, not a legal person, but it WAS a legal person on Jan 21, 1973. It could easily be a legal person again someday. If it were a legal person, would you defend its right to live? Of course not. You want the right to kill another human being IF don't want it to be born alive. If it being alive would hinder you.
schochaj 3 years ago