@shotsky94@MrTugwit If you guys can do better than the rhetoric of name calling 8 year olds, perhaps you could refer to ANY recognized economist that you DO think makes sense. Even the libertarian Greenspan you call a moron. So who is your genius(es) about economics?
@SwarmerBees It's not name-calling to point out that economists have basically ignored irrationality and chaos. Von Mises and Hazlitt are good. Greenspan wasn't a libertarian. He was a central planner. Brooksley Born warned him, Summers, and Rubin about derivatives and credit default swaps in the late '90's, and they ignored her. And the "geniuses" at the Fed missed the housing bubble because they were following the rental price instead of the selling price of houses. That's not name-calling ;)
@MrTugwit I invite readers to look up information on Ludwig von Mises. Quoting him:: "It cannot be denied that Fascism and similar movements aiming at the establishment of dictatorships are full of the best intentions and that their intervention has, for the moment, SAVED EUROPEAN CIVILIZATION. The merit that Fascism has thereby won for itself will live on eternally in history." Congress begged Greenspan to regulate derivatives. Your libertarian declined on "free market" grounds. Fact.
“But though its [facsism's] policy has brought salvation for the moment, it is not of the kind which could promise continued success. Fascism was an emergency makeshift. To view it as something more would be a fatal error.
Earlier sentence:
“Still others, in full knowledge of the evil that Fascist economic policy brings with it, view Fascism, in comparison with Bolshevism and Sovietism, as at least the lesser evil.” He was arguing against fascism ;)
@SwarmerBees "For Fascism does nothing to combat it [socialism] except to suppress socialist ideas and to persecute the people who spread them. If it wanted really to combat socialism, it would have to oppose it with ideas. There is, however, only one idea that can be effectively opposed to socialism, viz., that of liberalism."
He means classic liberalism, now called libertarianism. In the von Mises stuff I have read, he ridiculed fascism.
But what has this to do with chaos and irrationality?
@MrTugwit The reader may form there own conclusions about whether you are a successful apologist for von Miles's err.. surprising positions (of which this is just one of many). By your own words you call into question whether you have any mastery of factual material- such as Greenspan's background as a libertarian. BTW- did you receive any money or other compensation to post this video?
Point to any analysis published in a peer reviewed journal that comes to this conclusion. Silence? I thought so.
The key BullPucky that Tugwit spreads is the assertion that the cause of the 2008 debacle was gubmint economists. Sorry. It was deregulated financial institutions using highly leveraged instruments to con themselves, rating institutions, and investors that they were actually selling securities of value.
True, economic models cannot predict the insane schemes of Bank$ters.
@SwarmerBees Nah. That wasnt the fundamental problem. Fundamental problem was Ben Beffool Bernanke and Alan Retard Greenspan keeping interest rates too low too long. Even TImothy Geitner admitted it
@SwarmerBees What conclusion? Can math model irrational behavior? Can econ models overcome the butterfly effect of chaos, when both the models and data are inadequate? Did they actually predict the Great Recession, but just forgot to tell anybody? These reports we see every week, that they are surprised by what happened last month and last year are made up? The Great Recession was the result of central planning by the Fed and Congress. Enabling bad loans and selling the risk to taxpayers ;)
@shotsky94 Yes. Pretty much the whole lot were clueless that the "greatest economic crisis since the Great Depression" was coming. If they knew anything, shouldn't they have all been trying to warn us? Every week we see that something "unexpected" by them has already happened in the economy. How can they assume rationality with the evidence of manias and panics? Are they clueless about chaos? And why haven't they destroyed this Keynesian multiplier baloney? They're quacks.
@shotsky94 I haven't read that. I read his "Economics in One Easy Lesson" and it is very good. But if there are any non-Keynesian economists around now, where are they and what are they doing about Keynes' nonsense? They appear to have conceded victory to a con man. That makes them incompetent and worse than Keynes.
@shotsky94 Thanks. I just Googled them with fiscal multiplier. I see John Taylor on a paper about NEW Keynesian multipliers. So he basically concedes that there is a multiplier. It was just a quick look, but I didn't see them saying that the multiplier is a logic error, that there is no multiplier. That the national debt proves there isn't.
If anybody with a large audience just said that and showed why, we might get somewhere.
Then they still have to acknowledge irrationality and chaos.
@shotsky94 What a TURKEY. Maybe he'll discover that inflation didn't cure unemployment in the 1970's, or that with inflation the gains of the winners = the losses of the losers, for no net gain, proving that HE is irrational.
And Larry Summers said that Japan's GDP would go up because of the earthquake/tsunami. Then there's space cadet Krugman vs the space aliens.
The existence of these jackass Keynesians is another proof of economic irrationality ;)
@shotsky94 @MrTugwit If you guys can do better than the rhetoric of name calling 8 year olds, perhaps you could refer to ANY recognized economist that you DO think makes sense. Even the libertarian Greenspan you call a moron. So who is your genius(es) about economics?
SwarmerBees 5 months ago
@SwarmerBees It's not name-calling to point out that economists have basically ignored irrationality and chaos. Von Mises and Hazlitt are good. Greenspan wasn't a libertarian. He was a central planner. Brooksley Born warned him, Summers, and Rubin about derivatives and credit default swaps in the late '90's, and they ignored her. And the "geniuses" at the Fed missed the housing bubble because they were following the rental price instead of the selling price of houses. That's not name-calling ;)
MrTugwit 5 months ago
@MrTugwit I invite readers to look up information on Ludwig von Mises. Quoting him:: "It cannot be denied that Fascism and similar movements aiming at the establishment of dictatorships are full of the best intentions and that their intervention has, for the moment, SAVED EUROPEAN CIVILIZATION. The merit that Fascism has thereby won for itself will live on eternally in history." Congress begged Greenspan to regulate derivatives. Your libertarian declined on "free market" grounds. Fact.
SwarmerBees 5 months ago
@SwarmerBees You left out the next sentence:
“But though its [facsism's] policy has brought salvation for the moment, it is not of the kind which could promise continued success. Fascism was an emergency makeshift. To view it as something more would be a fatal error.
Earlier sentence:
“Still others, in full knowledge of the evil that Fascist economic policy brings with it, view Fascism, in comparison with Bolshevism and Sovietism, as at least the lesser evil.” He was arguing against fascism ;)
MrTugwit 5 months ago
@SwarmerBees "For Fascism does nothing to combat it [socialism] except to suppress socialist ideas and to persecute the people who spread them. If it wanted really to combat socialism, it would have to oppose it with ideas. There is, however, only one idea that can be effectively opposed to socialism, viz., that of liberalism."
He means classic liberalism, now called libertarianism. In the von Mises stuff I have read, he ridiculed fascism.
But what has this to do with chaos and irrationality?
MrTugwit 5 months ago
@MrTugwit The reader may form there own conclusions about whether you are a successful apologist for von Miles's err.. surprising positions (of which this is just one of many). By your own words you call into question whether you have any mastery of factual material- such as Greenspan's background as a libertarian. BTW- did you receive any money or other compensation to post this video?
SwarmerBees 5 months ago
@SwarmerBees Anybody can read von Mises and see that you misrepresented what he said ;) Why did you do that?
A libertarian would disband the Fed, not run it.
Do you make money making comments?
Make a video like this one yourself and see if you make any money ;)
BTW can math model irrational behavior?
Can econ models overcome the butterfly effect of chaos?
Did economists actually predict the Great Recession and just forget to tell anybody?
MrTugwit 5 months ago
Point to any analysis published in a peer reviewed journal that comes to this conclusion. Silence? I thought so.
The key BullPucky that Tugwit spreads is the assertion that the cause of the 2008 debacle was gubmint economists. Sorry. It was deregulated financial institutions using highly leveraged instruments to con themselves, rating institutions, and investors that they were actually selling securities of value.
True, economic models cannot predict the insane schemes of Bank$ters.
SwarmerBees 5 months ago
@SwarmerBees Nah. That wasnt the fundamental problem. Fundamental problem was Ben Beffool Bernanke and Alan Retard Greenspan keeping interest rates too low too long. Even TImothy Geitner admitted it
shotsky94 5 months ago
@SwarmerBees What conclusion? Can math model irrational behavior? Can econ models overcome the butterfly effect of chaos, when both the models and data are inadequate? Did they actually predict the Great Recession, but just forgot to tell anybody? These reports we see every week, that they are surprised by what happened last month and last year are made up? The Great Recession was the result of central planning by the Fed and Congress. Enabling bad loans and selling the risk to taxpayers ;)
MrTugwit 5 months ago
It's Predictably Irrational....not Predicatbly Unpredicable!
shotsky94 5 months ago
@shotsky94 There are 2 problems with economic models:
1) human irrationality
2) unpredictability of the future due to "the butterfly effect" of chaos
Economists assume that people always make rational economic decisions, even though they don't.
And even if humans were always rational, chaos makes the outcomes unpredictable anyway.
Economists are just playing computer games.
MrTugwit 5 months ago
@MrTugwit I was referring to the book in your book list :).
Well so you shouldn't attack only keynesians then. You should attack the whole economics profession
shotsky94 5 months ago
@shotsky94 Yes. Pretty much the whole lot were clueless that the "greatest economic crisis since the Great Depression" was coming. If they knew anything, shouldn't they have all been trying to warn us? Every week we see that something "unexpected" by them has already happened in the economy. How can they assume rationality with the evidence of manias and panics? Are they clueless about chaos? And why haven't they destroyed this Keynesian multiplier baloney? They're quacks.
MrTugwit 5 months ago
@MrTugwit Actually they have. Read the failure of the new economics - henry hazlitt. Its a systematic destruction of the Maynard Keynes worldview
shotsky94 5 months ago
@shotsky94 I haven't read that. I read his "Economics in One Easy Lesson" and it is very good. But if there are any non-Keynesian economists around now, where are they and what are they doing about Keynes' nonsense? They appear to have conceded victory to a con man. That makes them incompetent and worse than Keynes.
MrTugwit 5 months ago
@MrTugwit Peter Schiff, Caroline Baum, The Guys @ UChicago, John Taylor. Still alot of non-keynesians out there:)
shotsky94 5 months ago
@shotsky94 Thanks. I just Googled them with fiscal multiplier. I see John Taylor on a paper about NEW Keynesian multipliers. So he basically concedes that there is a multiplier. It was just a quick look, but I didn't see them saying that the multiplier is a logic error, that there is no multiplier. That the national debt proves there isn't.
If anybody with a large audience just said that and showed why, we might get somewhere.
Then they still have to acknowledge irrationality and chaos.
MrTugwit 5 months ago
@MrTugwit Yup Bernanke says the global economy slowed down because of "irrationality and chaos".....i.e Japan Tsunami...lol
shotsky94 5 months ago
@shotsky94 What a TURKEY. Maybe he'll discover that inflation didn't cure unemployment in the 1970's, or that with inflation the gains of the winners = the losses of the losers, for no net gain, proving that HE is irrational.
And Larry Summers said that Japan's GDP would go up because of the earthquake/tsunami. Then there's space cadet Krugman vs the space aliens.
The existence of these jackass Keynesians is another proof of economic irrationality ;)
MrTugwit 5 months ago
@MrTugwit Keynesian Economics is an oxymoron
shotsky94 5 months ago