There is much in what Mc is on about.....much can be lost ...he is not great on specifics ..tone, tempo , rhythm, sound colouring , appropriateness in ornamentation, use of dynamics etc ....but it is good to see development taking place ...the older playes talked about these things though generaly not in a systematic way.
If I get it correct I can see the good man his point of view,but I think he is taking this issue way out of proportion..obviously MacMahon hates the use of the Irish bouzouki in Irish trad. music.I play Irish tenorbanjo.
The tenorbanjo is origine of Afro-America,and became famous in early jazz,
so what in a sense makes an instrument typical Irish.?
@spunnek75 Nothing wrong with tenor banjo at all..one of my boyhood idols was the late Noel Strange (Banjo Mandolin). Music must develop/evolve ...bt there is much very conservative on the trad scene....try playing a Boehm flute!! Recently I was taken to task for playing a tune in a different key ...when I told my accuser I could also play it in his key ...there was a noticable silence!
@UISTMAN59 The most important differences between an Irish and "Balkan" bouzouki are: 1.tuning. 2:bodyshape.(the Irish bouzouki has a flat body-back,while the other is bowl-shaped).
@spunnek75 Thanks for the reply. To take the second point first, I should think that the body shape doesn't affect the players ability to play tunes. If there's a difference in the tuning, does that mean that there are some tunes you can play on one and not the other? For example any fiddle can be tuned AEAE, is the same not true of bouzukis?
@spunnek75 I think you are right . What are the differences between "Irish bouzouki" and "non-Irish bouzouki" or what are the differences between "Irish tenorbanjo" and "non-Irish tenorbanjo"please tell? O I see - it depends on whether they are playing Irish music or not! Bah Humbug!!!
I play the button box just like Tony does right, i don't live in Ireland right i live in England i've played as a youngster in a ceili band at the all Ireland fleadh so i've been brought up with traditional Irish music but i will try and emulate from old tapes, CD's, DVD's whatever the artist or preformers that i like.
So i am guilty according to Tony of not keeping tradition by not sticking to an area of Ireland and learning that style aren't i?
As far as I'm concerned the point he makes here goes without saying. Everyone knows Flatley and the likes are just chancers. The point about the regional quality would be totally lost on a Late Late Show audience.
Regional styles have been preserved in recordings and transcriptions so they won't be lost. I wouldn't define modern day players based on their regional background though.
When I see those American Irish dancers in their bucketfuls of makeup and horrible wigs and dresses, I think the same thing. It's about as Irish as the President of Mexico's plastic tortilla box.
It lacks the most important thing of all - a sense of taste.
of course Mcmahon is right, materialism consumerism has errorded the very fabric of a great nation,one can only sit back and weep and pine for what we had,very little in our pockets but a wealth of happiness in our music and culture.
What have we now a broken country full of foreigners, time to draw a line in the sand and get back to basic morals,culturalism.
Tony McMahon is one of the best pure Irish musicians. He is absolutely right about what he says on the matter of innovation. It's just a pity he gets himslef into hot water on some matters that do not involve him but theres no takin away from him. . . A true legend in our music and one to be respected.
Tony you are totally right this is not Irish traditional music by any stretch of the imagination, in fact its a different genre of music. Good music will stand the test of time. I think it says a lot more about the understanding Mr O Sullivan has about Irish traditional music
good man tony say it as you see it.the country is still full of arse lickers and ignorant educated fools and i fear they are still increasing in number
He couldn't BE more correct! There's a very fine divide now (and there's NOTHING wrong with saying so) between *Irish* traditional music, and *Celtic* music. Period.
Irish traditional music is not Lunasa, it's not Michael Flatley, it's not these pre-arranged, flippity music that you hear from so many bands - and there's nothing wrong with that!
Trad music is just what it says - TRADITIONAL. There's nothing traditional about Elleen Ivers players, end of discussion.
most of all my problem is that even now 2010 I am teaching kids trad music who would never have had the slightest interest if river dance hadn't happened! authentic Irish music of the sort Tony MacMahon plays was DANCE music a generation before he started to play and thanks to river dance it has come full circle! sessions and national appropriation were possibly the worst thing to happen to this music
@dancingfeetylem Don't mind that I comment further, because actually I didn't really want to continue in this discussion further but I find your comments quite interesting.
I do not know what you mean by what you said that thanks to riverdance, Irish music has come a full circle, and sessions and national appropriation being the worst things to happen to it.
@deterdettol Also, I'm not sure as to your earlier discussions, that's why I'm finding it difficult to understand your point about Irish music loosing its 'softness'. Perhaps you can explain.
Anyway, let me just say that through my experiences learning Irish music, I've been led to feel so much for the more traditional styles that I'm for the preservation of it. I also like Tony McMahon a lot, but I'm not as 'far right' as him.
@dancingfeetylem I wholeheartedly believe in what Tony said. Nevertheless, I understand that modernisation is inevitable, and it isn't bad. Modernisation shows the changes in the way people express themselves in the tradition with the times, and I'm okay with it. What I'm not okay, however is that with modernisation, people are too caught up with the modern, many do not care for the older sound any more. Some don't even know about it.
well I'm glad that there are people holding up the torch for what they believe to be a less modern approach there has probably always been two camps (innovators traditionalists)in any style of music.look at the way the blues changed from the acoustic south to electric Chicago.I think a fiddle player from the turn of the century was probably not as aware of his own regional style as we would be!
@deterdettol see I'm not sure what the old sound is.but i think I can guess as to what the old feel of the happening was.I do have an issue with what he says because of the way he poo poos the music as commercial tinsel and links the innovators with the loss of the roots of the music.It may be that the roots he is talking about is something to do with his generation and locality.A 20 or a 80 year old may have a different experience of source authenticity.musicians die !
@dancingfeetylem Also, I personally wouldn't call Tony MacMahon a 'custodian'. Granted he is trying to 'defend tradition' to the hills, but custodian? Not really. He is just trying to say what he feels, that tradition is being lost. And besides, why matter about him? He's one of the many 'hardcore' traditionalists but actually one of the few who speaks out. So with that saying, I prefer to call him an 'advocate'.
@deterdettol Also, as part of my learning via listening, I also had my Lunasa listening material for me to learn about the new times, and yes they are very, very good! But to me, is it a holistic example of the tradition? Not really.
@deterdettol I have no argument in people trying to keep alive the les commercial side of the music but as we not living in a pre modern society it is very difficult get into the mindset of where the tradition actually exists.I think to often the 'event' where player none player contribute to the party is lacking from the trad scene.musicians focusing a bit to much on the music and not the magic of the night.I feel that playing for dancing is the closest I get in touch with the old ways
So when did Irish music start to loose its 'softness'was it when flutes became affordable because classical players switched to the Boehm System ?or with the introduction of the box ?or with the recordings of Michael Coleman?was it when peasants could afford a fiddle? or when people stopped dancing at crossroads or the kitchen and it moved to the pub session?At what point does it start or stop being authentic?or regional?or national? amateur or pro?leave dogma to the taliban
Despite the fact that I'm sometimes called "bigoted" or "sectarian", I agree with Tony McMahon. I like traditional music wherever it comes from (well, I prefer some to others, but it's not the point). What I dislike above all, is the world soup (Aka world music). Fortunately, there is neither World Music nor World Culture. This is an imperialist vision of the world, just like the infamous World Trade Agreement.
Does anyone know what performance Tony is referring to in this discussion? Personally I think he's right, he sees things changing at an alarming rate but it has come around somewhat. I dont think he sounds like a sad old man at all, it's understandable that he fears the loss of the tradition to a new evolved style. Lets not forget that he has played & worked with most of the great Irish traditional musicians of the past half-century so he knows more about the topic than any of us ever will.
@greymatter1984 I do remember the performance to which he was reacting and it's not the Eileen Ivers dance piece. It was a sort of vocal sonic thing, with a young boy of about 8 or 9 singing the lead. My feeling at the time was the people boo-ing his views were probably doing so because the lad sining in the main part was so young. I have this on video somewhere and if I can find it I'll put it up. Overall, I remember this as being a great episode (Late Late).
@claney01 the fact is he is telling the truth and not talking the bull like flatley does about castlehide Tony McMahon is an original genius not an attention seeking publicity hunting no good for nothing pansy Tony McMahon is one of Irelands true musical genius who in this day and age are far and few between
>>>> Music developed its own style in the US (Andy NcGann etc..) in the 70's, Planxty & Bothy band (I'm sure Tony disapproved then, eventhough he probably sings their prais now) were HUGELY important in keeping (albeit a new kind) tradition alive. Just sounds like a sad old man! I'll tell you about his grey box one day !!!
what a load of old rubbish! Tradition evolves - or dies , as simple as that (after all, why not lament - & some do! - the introduction of banjo, after all alien to the 'irish tradition'... I'm sure Tony is longing for 'old Ireland' (you know...there was no crime, we all knew our neighbours etc ...) >>>>>>
Yes, everything in this world now is subjected to advancement. However, in this case traditional aspect are fast being lost. Tangible examples like the fading of regional styles and the introduction of polished clean, prim-and-proper, clinical playing of many of our current Irish folk music bands (which juxtapose against the rough, unpolished sounds of the old music tradition).
As Tony had said, modern music as he quoted, helps to portray Ireland to the world as a country with its unique and wonderful traits. However, now everybody thinks Irish dance consists of Riverdance-style dancing; ask your friend what is Sean-nos dancing and he'll probably don't know what is it (you'd probably not know either). The media knows in the present day and age, the modern sounds appeals to the modern taste, not the old styles. Thus, their deliberate selection of such to be aired.
In a transcribed speech delivered by Tony MacMahon (this very inteviewee in this video) at an Irish music conference in Dublin, circa 1996, he said this: "its quite another to railroad people in the public eye and the pop music business who know little or nothing about this music into speaking up for CHANGE and DEVELOPEMENT , when they clearly illustrate ignorance as to what it is that requires change.
After all, what person depending on being loved by the public in one way or another, would speak up against change, when presented with leading questions on TV ?"
The modernization of Irish folk music is inevitable. However, what Tony is implying here is that the old traditions, which really clearly defines the folk music roots and what the music is all about, are being forgotten, forgotten fast.
@dancingfeetylem Well, I was predominantly referring to the music and dance traditions here, but traditions like storytelling, Sean-nos singing, kitchen sessions and others are slowly ebbing with the times. I'm a Singaporean learning Irish music by ear, and it puts me closer to the heart of the tradition. I'd love to learn Gaelic just to learn Sean-nos singing!
@deterdettol I also have a lot of respect and admiration for Irish dance music Sean-nos singing etc, and would feel the loss if such things were to die out.
but I do have a real problem with the self appointed custodians of any form of folk art.You may not like it but country music is as valid as a form of oral tradition in Ireland as Donegal fiddle music is.I personally hate most modern jazz but I am pleased people play it.
He is absolutely, drop-dead right. Losing the regional tradition is a crying shame; I thank God that I've been able to watch, listen to and buy the music of someone as exquisitely talented as Tony MacMahon. I stand beside you 100% on this.
I don't think there is a form of music in Europe that is not informed or influenced by other kinds of music!and if we look for 'pure' Irish folk are we then to talk about a form of music based on binary improvisations on a harp from the early middle ages the sort of which is only now played in scotland on pipes and wales on harp
because jigs reels hornpipes all can be sourced Quite clearly as dance styles outside of Ireland.
tradition will only survive outside of the museum if it is allowed to breathe Greek and Irish music have probably been bouncing of each other in an indirect way for the past thousand years long may they do so
@dancingfeetylem Also, I'd like to address your reply, here is a quote by a very famous and awesome flute player, Seamus Tansey. Here, he was referring to Kerry slides and polkas:
"Perhaps you thought they were not traditional. Well, they’re not. Authentically, they all came in from Scotland. But... would have been more authentic, and over the years it is more Irish now..."
The way he expressed his quote might be a sweeping statement, but I guess I can understand what he meant by saying it.
@KevKli3 Totally with you Kev. McMahon is a class antidote to the appalling Sharon Shannon school of trad. He and Tansey know something more. Fair fucks to you Kev.
An opnion regarding the tradtion vs. innovtion debate, by Martin Hayes, son of accomplished Clare fiddler P J Hayes and leader of the Tulla ceili band.
Although I think he's talking rubbish here, in essence I agree with the point he is trying to make. Personally I don't think it wa a good piece of music at all. Good man Tony for speaking your mind.
For me, the main problem about the modernization of the music is not the bands we have today. I feel the main problem is Riverdance and Lord of the Dance. They perpetuate the modernized sounds of Irish traditional music, rather than the traditional Irish traditional music (note my use of words here). Granted that they are commended for bringing Irish culture to the world, but still that's the modern ideas of traditional music and dance spread across the world.
It is interesting to point out that while 'purist' are often described as narrow-minded and intolerant old farts, it is the woman in the audience who agressively and rudely interrupts Tony McMahon who is simply and politely answering Gaybo's question. Of course she's entitled to disagree but she should have the decency to wait till Tony's finished speaking before expressing her own opinion. I wonder who truly is the biggot here...
It's hard to disagree. The 'new ' music is fast and brilliant but is it truly Irish Traditional Music. The Bothy Band knew where the music came frome. I am not sure the next generation do.
Well I hear and see quite a bit of Ireland in it but unquestionably it's a vast departure from the "tradition". Keep in mind that the elders of every society always lament the loss of old ways and MacMahon's comments are in part, an expression of that mindset. While I didn't fancy much the dancing or Eileen's playing (she is great though), ironically it's this kind of "innovation" that might actually help preserve the tradition.
I wasn't commenting on the music before but the dancing. The music is rough and harsh for the man's graceful steps, they don't quiet match up. I was only commenting on the dancing in the previous video. There definitely is a sweeter, gentler lilt to the music lost with the Bazuki and the Heavy skinned Bohdran, especially to match the dancing. The Bohdran player's hand was heavy as well. And Irish should stay Irish if it is to be portrayed that way. Though I do find beauty in all.
THX Bannerman, The Agricultural Iirish Music can still be found in East Galway and parts of other western counties , usually once a week at old forts of traditional music and not "every night trad " locations. The music at the two different locations are worlds apart,The homogenized velvet suit /funny hat pseudo classic 'Irish' musak that suits the record industry and the tourist board is not what I call Ceol na h'Éireannl.
Well it isn't as apparent to people in Ireland as it is outside of it. At sessions overseas you'll nearly never hear a setting that isn't on some record by the trendy names such as Bothy Band, Chieftains and the like. If you happen to have gotten your music in Ireland and start a tune that the locals have a different twist on you'll be overran with their way.
It isn't anybody's fault, it's just the way things have turned out.
But now people are tired of the fast playing and songs are back!
I think that if anyone could make Tony laugh,
his smile would crack and burst the corners of his mouth..
spunnek75 1 month ago
There is much in what Mc is on about.....much can be lost ...he is not great on specifics ..tone, tempo , rhythm, sound colouring , appropriateness in ornamentation, use of dynamics etc ....but it is good to see development taking place ...the older playes talked about these things though generaly not in a systematic way.
Lisnageeragh 2 months ago
If I get it correct I can see the good man his point of view,but I think he is taking this issue way out of proportion..obviously MacMahon hates the use of the Irish bouzouki in Irish trad. music.I play Irish tenorbanjo.
The tenorbanjo is origine of Afro-America,and became famous in early jazz,
so what in a sense makes an instrument typical Irish.?
to me it is all evolution.
spunnek75 3 months ago
@spunnek75 Nothing wrong with tenor banjo at all..one of my boyhood idols was the late Noel Strange (Banjo Mandolin). Music must develop/evolve ...bt there is much very conservative on the trad scene....try playing a Boehm flute!! Recently I was taken to task for playing a tune in a different key ...when I told my accuser I could also play it in his key ...there was a noticable silence!
Lisnageeragh 1 month ago
Comment removed
UISTMAN59 1 month ago
@UISTMAN59 The most important differences between an Irish and "Balkan" bouzouki are: 1.tuning. 2:bodyshape.(the Irish bouzouki has a flat body-back,while the other is bowl-shaped).
spunnek75 1 month ago
Comment removed
UISTMAN59 1 month ago
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@spunnek75 Thanks for the reply. To take the second point first, I should think that the body shape doesn't affect the players ability to play tunes. If there's a difference in the tuning, does that mean that there are some tunes you can play on one and not the other? For example any fiddle can be tuned AEAE, is the same not true of bouzukis?
UISTMAN59 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@spunnek75 I think you are right . What are the differences between "Irish bouzouki" and "non-Irish bouzouki" or what are the differences between "Irish tenorbanjo" and "non-Irish tenorbanjo"please tell? O I see - it depends on whether they are playing Irish music or not! Bah Humbug!!!
UISTMAN59 1 month ago
Hahah Tony is the Guardian of Irish Traditional music!
This purist is a famed button accordeonplayer,and a criticaster
with his ´subtile´way with words...calling Alec Finn a second rate
musician...
spunnek75 3 months ago
I play the button box just like Tony does right, i don't live in Ireland right i live in England i've played as a youngster in a ceili band at the all Ireland fleadh so i've been brought up with traditional Irish music but i will try and emulate from old tapes, CD's, DVD's whatever the artist or preformers that i like.
So i am guilty according to Tony of not keeping tradition by not sticking to an area of Ireland and learning that style aren't i?
Stargreened 5 months ago
Well said, Tony.
getridofthetonedeaf 7 months ago
As far as I'm concerned the point he makes here goes without saying. Everyone knows Flatley and the likes are just chancers. The point about the regional quality would be totally lost on a Late Late Show audience.
Regional styles have been preserved in recordings and transcriptions so they won't be lost. I wouldn't define modern day players based on their regional background though.
boxtubejohn 7 months ago 2
Couldn't agree more with him
ceolandhuin 10 months ago
When I see those American Irish dancers in their bucketfuls of makeup and horrible wigs and dresses, I think the same thing. It's about as Irish as the President of Mexico's plastic tortilla box.
It lacks the most important thing of all - a sense of taste.
Banshun 10 months ago 4
of course Mcmahon is right, materialism consumerism has errorded the very fabric of a great nation,one can only sit back and weep and pine for what we had,very little in our pockets but a wealth of happiness in our music and culture.
What have we now a broken country full of foreigners, time to draw a line in the sand and get back to basic morals,culturalism.
rostovondon46 10 months ago
Tony McMahon is one of the best pure Irish musicians. He is absolutely right about what he says on the matter of innovation. It's just a pity he gets himslef into hot water on some matters that do not involve him but theres no takin away from him. . . A true legend in our music and one to be respected.
TheKerryBox 1 year ago
Tony's the man!!
maccruiskeen81 1 year ago
Tony's the man!!
maccruiskeen81 1 year ago
Tony you are totally right this is not Irish traditional music by any stretch of the imagination, in fact its a different genre of music. Good music will stand the test of time. I think it says a lot more about the understanding Mr O Sullivan has about Irish traditional music
brianfiddle 1 year ago
good man tony say it as you see it.the country is still full of arse lickers and ignorant educated fools and i fear they are still increasing in number
infiddle1 1 year ago
He couldn't BE more correct! There's a very fine divide now (and there's NOTHING wrong with saying so) between *Irish* traditional music, and *Celtic* music. Period.
Irish traditional music is not Lunasa, it's not Michael Flatley, it's not these pre-arranged, flippity music that you hear from so many bands - and there's nothing wrong with that!
Trad music is just what it says - TRADITIONAL. There's nothing traditional about Elleen Ivers players, end of discussion.
newazagod 1 year ago
most of all my problem is that even now 2010 I am teaching kids trad music who would never have had the slightest interest if river dance hadn't happened! authentic Irish music of the sort Tony MacMahon plays was DANCE music a generation before he started to play and thanks to river dance it has come full circle! sessions and national appropriation were possibly the worst thing to happen to this music
dancingfeetylem 1 year ago
@dancingfeetylem Don't mind that I comment further, because actually I didn't really want to continue in this discussion further but I find your comments quite interesting.
I do not know what you mean by what you said that thanks to riverdance, Irish music has come a full circle, and sessions and national appropriation being the worst things to happen to it.
deterdettol 1 year ago
@deterdettol Also, I'm not sure as to your earlier discussions, that's why I'm finding it difficult to understand your point about Irish music loosing its 'softness'. Perhaps you can explain.
Anyway, let me just say that through my experiences learning Irish music, I've been led to feel so much for the more traditional styles that I'm for the preservation of it. I also like Tony McMahon a lot, but I'm not as 'far right' as him.
deterdettol 1 year ago
@dancingfeetylem I wholeheartedly believe in what Tony said. Nevertheless, I understand that modernisation is inevitable, and it isn't bad. Modernisation shows the changes in the way people express themselves in the tradition with the times, and I'm okay with it. What I'm not okay, however is that with modernisation, people are too caught up with the modern, many do not care for the older sound any more. Some don't even know about it.
deterdettol 1 year ago
@deterdettol
well I'm glad that there are people holding up the torch for what they believe to be a less modern approach there has probably always been two camps (innovators traditionalists)in any style of music.look at the way the blues changed from the acoustic south to electric Chicago.I think a fiddle player from the turn of the century was probably not as aware of his own regional style as we would be!
dancingfeetylem 1 year ago
@deterdettol see I'm not sure what the old sound is.but i think I can guess as to what the old feel of the happening was.I do have an issue with what he says because of the way he poo poos the music as commercial tinsel and links the innovators with the loss of the roots of the music.It may be that the roots he is talking about is something to do with his generation and locality.A 20 or a 80 year old may have a different experience of source authenticity.musicians die !
dancingfeetylem 1 year ago
@dancingfeetylem Also, I personally wouldn't call Tony MacMahon a 'custodian'. Granted he is trying to 'defend tradition' to the hills, but custodian? Not really. He is just trying to say what he feels, that tradition is being lost. And besides, why matter about him? He's one of the many 'hardcore' traditionalists but actually one of the few who speaks out. So with that saying, I prefer to call him an 'advocate'.
deterdettol 1 year ago
@deterdettol Also, as part of my learning via listening, I also had my Lunasa listening material for me to learn about the new times, and yes they are very, very good! But to me, is it a holistic example of the tradition? Not really.
deterdettol 1 year ago
@deterdettol I have no argument in people trying to keep alive the les commercial side of the music but as we not living in a pre modern society it is very difficult get into the mindset of where the tradition actually exists.I think to often the 'event' where player none player contribute to the party is lacking from the trad scene.musicians focusing a bit to much on the music and not the magic of the night.I feel that playing for dancing is the closest I get in touch with the old ways
dancingfeetylem 1 year ago
So when did Irish music start to loose its 'softness'was it when flutes became affordable because classical players switched to the Boehm System ?or with the introduction of the box ?or with the recordings of Michael Coleman?was it when peasants could afford a fiddle? or when people stopped dancing at crossroads or the kitchen and it moved to the pub session?At what point does it start or stop being authentic?or regional?or national? amateur or pro?leave dogma to the taliban
dancingfeetylem 1 year ago
Despite the fact that I'm sometimes called "bigoted" or "sectarian", I agree with Tony McMahon. I like traditional music wherever it comes from (well, I prefer some to others, but it's not the point). What I dislike above all, is the world soup (Aka world music). Fortunately, there is neither World Music nor World Culture. This is an imperialist vision of the world, just like the infamous World Trade Agreement.
edelahaye 1 year ago
... I'm not Irish and I don't pretend to be one, but the music I play tends to be respectful with the Irish tradition.
edelahaye 1 year ago
Does anyone know what performance Tony is referring to in this discussion? Personally I think he's right, he sees things changing at an alarming rate but it has come around somewhat. I dont think he sounds like a sad old man at all, it's understandable that he fears the loss of the tradition to a new evolved style. Lets not forget that he has played & worked with most of the great Irish traditional musicians of the past half-century so he knows more about the topic than any of us ever will.
greymatter1984 1 year ago
@greymatter1984
I agree with your opinion. Tony's arguments are very reasonable.
Offtofott 1 year ago
@greymatter1984 I do remember the performance to which he was reacting and it's not the Eileen Ivers dance piece. It was a sort of vocal sonic thing, with a young boy of about 8 or 9 singing the lead. My feeling at the time was the people boo-ing his views were probably doing so because the lad sining in the main part was so young. I have this on video somewhere and if I can find it I'll put it up. Overall, I remember this as being a great episode (Late Late).
claney01 1 year ago
@claney01 the fact is he is telling the truth and not talking the bull like flatley does about castlehide Tony McMahon is an original genius not an attention seeking publicity hunting no good for nothing pansy Tony McMahon is one of Irelands true musical genius who in this day and age are far and few between
nevada540 1 year ago
>>>> Music developed its own style in the US (Andy NcGann etc..) in the 70's, Planxty & Bothy band (I'm sure Tony disapproved then, eventhough he probably sings their prais now) were HUGELY important in keeping (albeit a new kind) tradition alive. Just sounds like a sad old man! I'll tell you about his grey box one day !!!
skara100 2 years ago
what a load of old rubbish! Tradition evolves - or dies , as simple as that (after all, why not lament - & some do! - the introduction of banjo, after all alien to the 'irish tradition'... I'm sure Tony is longing for 'old Ireland' (you know...there was no crime, we all knew our neighbours etc ...) >>>>>>
skara100 2 years ago
Comment removed
xntricitywebsite 2 years ago
No, his views did not stray out of context.
Yes, everything in this world now is subjected to advancement. However, in this case traditional aspect are fast being lost. Tangible examples like the fading of regional styles and the introduction of polished clean, prim-and-proper, clinical playing of many of our current Irish folk music bands (which juxtapose against the rough, unpolished sounds of the old music tradition).
deterdettol 2 years ago
As Tony had said, modern music as he quoted, helps to portray Ireland to the world as a country with its unique and wonderful traits. However, now everybody thinks Irish dance consists of Riverdance-style dancing; ask your friend what is Sean-nos dancing and he'll probably don't know what is it (you'd probably not know either). The media knows in the present day and age, the modern sounds appeals to the modern taste, not the old styles. Thus, their deliberate selection of such to be aired.
deterdettol 2 years ago
In a transcribed speech delivered by Tony MacMahon (this very inteviewee in this video) at an Irish music conference in Dublin, circa 1996, he said this: "its quite another to railroad people in the public eye and the pop music business who know little or nothing about this music into speaking up for CHANGE and DEVELOPEMENT , when they clearly illustrate ignorance as to what it is that requires change.
deterdettol 2 years ago
After all, what person depending on being loved by the public in one way or another, would speak up against change, when presented with leading questions on TV ?"
deterdettol 2 years ago
The modernization of Irish folk music is inevitable. However, what Tony is implying here is that the old traditions, which really clearly defines the folk music roots and what the music is all about, are being forgotten, forgotten fast.
deterdettol 2 years ago
Comment removed
deterdettol 2 years ago
@deterdettol
do you mean Sean-nos singing?
dancingfeetylem 1 year ago
@dancingfeetylem Well, I was predominantly referring to the music and dance traditions here, but traditions like storytelling, Sean-nos singing, kitchen sessions and others are slowly ebbing with the times. I'm a Singaporean learning Irish music by ear, and it puts me closer to the heart of the tradition. I'd love to learn Gaelic just to learn Sean-nos singing!
deterdettol 1 year ago
@deterdettol I also have a lot of respect and admiration for Irish dance music Sean-nos singing etc, and would feel the loss if such things were to die out.
but I do have a real problem with the self appointed custodians of any form of folk art.You may not like it but country music is as valid as a form of oral tradition in Ireland as Donegal fiddle music is.I personally hate most modern jazz but I am pleased people play it.
Good music is always resilient.
long may it evolve
dancingfeetylem 1 year ago
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deterdettol 1 year ago
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deterdettol 2 years ago
Tony Is Right The Music is being
chef094 2 years ago
He is absolutely, drop-dead right. Losing the regional tradition is a crying shame; I thank God that I've been able to watch, listen to and buy the music of someone as exquisitely talented as Tony MacMahon. I stand beside you 100% on this.
swbmeehan 2 years ago
The man is fuckin' right !!
If I want to listen to Greek music I will listen to Greek music.
If I want to listen to Irish music I will listen to Irish music.
I don't want to hear a mix of them.
KevKli3 2 years ago 9
@KevKli3
I don't think there is a form of music in Europe that is not informed or influenced by other kinds of music!and if we look for 'pure' Irish folk are we then to talk about a form of music based on binary improvisations on a harp from the early middle ages the sort of which is only now played in scotland on pipes and wales on harp
because jigs reels hornpipes all can be sourced Quite clearly as dance styles outside of Ireland.
dancingfeetylem 1 year ago
@KevKli3
tradition will only survive outside of the museum if it is allowed to breathe Greek and Irish music have probably been bouncing of each other in an indirect way for the past thousand years long may they do so
dancingfeetylem 1 year ago
@dancingfeetylem Also, I'd like to address your reply, here is a quote by a very famous and awesome flute player, Seamus Tansey. Here, he was referring to Kerry slides and polkas:
"Perhaps you thought they were not traditional. Well, they’re not. Authentically, they all came in from Scotland. But... would have been more authentic, and over the years it is more Irish now..."
The way he expressed his quote might be a sweeping statement, but I guess I can understand what he meant by saying it.
deterdettol 1 year ago
@KevKli3 Totally with you Kev. McMahon is a class antidote to the appalling Sharon Shannon school of trad. He and Tansey know something more. Fair fucks to you Kev.
mickigoe 1 year ago
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UISTMAN59 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@KevKli3 You are a foulmouthed fool. No one asked you to listen,
!
UISTMAN59 1 month ago
Tony your 100% right
ballinameen 2 years ago 2
journalofmusic com/article/217
An opnion regarding the tradtion vs. innovtion debate, by Martin Hayes, son of accomplished Clare fiddler P J Hayes and leader of the Tulla ceili band.
deterdettol 2 years ago
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deterdettol 2 years ago
Tony got into a lot of trouble recently over his comments on Frankie Gavin and De Danann - but I agree wholeheartedly with what he says here.
JFHumphreys 2 years ago 5
Although I think he's talking rubbish here, in essence I agree with the point he is trying to make. Personally I don't think it wa a good piece of music at all. Good man Tony for speaking your mind.
fh041205 2 years ago
Tony is great.
shoechecksays 2 years ago
Click on the clip entitled "Tradition vs. Innovation" and you'll see what Tony was talking about here.
deslm 2 years ago
All innovation and not much tradition...
Pagra50 2 years ago
For me, the main problem about the modernization of the music is not the bands we have today. I feel the main problem is Riverdance and Lord of the Dance. They perpetuate the modernized sounds of Irish traditional music, rather than the traditional Irish traditional music (note my use of words here). Granted that they are commended for bringing Irish culture to the world, but still that's the modern ideas of traditional music and dance spread across the world.
deterdettol 2 years ago
Very well said. Although I do enjoy some modern Irish music, I think Tony is right about this subject.
TheWhistleCollector 2 years ago
Go Tony, go!
shoechecksays 2 years ago
It is interesting to point out that while 'purist' are often described as narrow-minded and intolerant old farts, it is the woman in the audience who agressively and rudely interrupts Tony McMahon who is simply and politely answering Gaybo's question. Of course she's entitled to disagree but she should have the decency to wait till Tony's finished speaking before expressing her own opinion. I wonder who truly is the biggot here...
hhold 2 years ago
It's hard to disagree. The 'new ' music is fast and brilliant but is it truly Irish Traditional Music. The Bothy Band knew where the music came frome. I am not sure the next generation do.
hhold 2 years ago 2
how old is this and what music/band is he talking about?
roryphelan 2 years ago
He is talking about the music/dance in the video response below the clip frame -Tradition v Innovation at the top of the page.
blether12 2 years ago
Yes, I'd love to know what he's reacting to. But totally agree with him.
Cheers,
Armand
fiddlinviolinin 3 years ago
Well spoken, Mr. MacMahon! Down with this sort of thing
seanearnest 3 years ago
careful now
roryphelan 2 years ago 2
Amen.
proinsias78 3 years ago
Well I hear and see quite a bit of Ireland in it but unquestionably it's a vast departure from the "tradition". Keep in mind that the elders of every society always lament the loss of old ways and MacMahon's comments are in part, an expression of that mindset. While I didn't fancy much the dancing or Eileen's playing (she is great though), ironically it's this kind of "innovation" that might actually help preserve the tradition.
shankandbrisket 3 years ago
I wasn't commenting on the music before but the dancing. The music is rough and harsh for the man's graceful steps, they don't quiet match up. I was only commenting on the dancing in the previous video. There definitely is a sweeter, gentler lilt to the music lost with the Bazuki and the Heavy skinned Bohdran, especially to match the dancing. The Bohdran player's hand was heavy as well. And Irish should stay Irish if it is to be portrayed that way. Though I do find beauty in all.
Ravenspoetry333 3 years ago
THX Bannerman, The Agricultural Iirish Music can still be found in East Galway and parts of other western counties , usually once a week at old forts of traditional music and not "every night trad " locations. The music at the two different locations are worlds apart,The homogenized velvet suit /funny hat pseudo classic 'Irish' musak that suits the record industry and the tourist board is not what I call Ceol na h'Éireannl.
Uladach 3 years ago
I agree with Tony as well. A very interesting clip!
reelsonwheels 3 years ago
Well it isn't as apparent to people in Ireland as it is outside of it. At sessions overseas you'll nearly never hear a setting that isn't on some record by the trendy names such as Bothy Band, Chieftains and the like. If you happen to have gotten your music in Ireland and start a tune that the locals have a different twist on you'll be overran with their way.
It isn't anybody's fault, it's just the way things have turned out.
But now people are tired of the fast playing and songs are back!
:)
no5eyparker 3 years ago
Have you got a clip of the music his comments were about? This must have been a while ago with Gay Byrne as the presenter.
Banshun 3 years ago
'' HE'S RIGHT '' !!! jim,,,,,
fiddle4u 3 years ago
I have to agree.
HungryHillboy 3 years ago
Glad to see you posted this!
jtls8 3 years ago