while this doesnt fit with my chosen style of movement it is an EXCELLENT breakdown of posture and mechanics. you give us an every day reference of the shovel, and back it up with good solid kinetics. in my humble opinion this is a great example of how to pass on usable principles to students. i could watch this a few times and feel comfortable in passing it on to my students and let them decide if it is for them. thats what i consider to be a great lesson. much respect..
chinese boxing just isnt as good as western boxing and both are childs play compared to muay thai. I dont understand why people still practice this stuff.
Enough of this nonsense , too much to say about the art. just keep practicing what you believe in because this concept of yours don't work if somebody knock your head off and put you to sleep. Do you think you can talk more after that?
@nomamao this where my thoughts too, why leaning back when punching? i got taught to do a crunches-like movement when throwing a fist. that means that i tense my abdominal muscles, also using the hip and NOT lean back my body from the abdomen upwards, BUT take your head back when doing this.
This sounds a lot more like proper punching structure to me. I prefer to tuck my chin, though. :)
The guy in the video seems like a nice dude, but he needs to realize that punching like that can't be good for fighting at all. UNLESS, he's used it in a competition and it's worked for him. I'd have to see it to believe it, though.
It's not so much 'leaning back" to the extent where you aren't putting any body into the punch, the reason in wing chun why we pull the hips forward and 'isolate' the arms with our strikes is to simply prevent the opponent from using that against us. For example, when someone uses their shoulders/top half of body with the strike putting more pressure forward/leaning forward, we will use that against them by letting that energy follow past us and finish by closing the gap, attacking the center.
Check out Jin's other videos on structures. Basically, if u do the structure correctly, there will not be shock in your punches. because it all goes to the floor. And, it is not leaning back, but hunch the back till it is straight to make a thing called top triangle. Just watch the videos on structure.
Well, I would watch all his videos, if it wasn't for the fact HE'S leaning back as he explains the shovel method and punching HIMSELF. I'm not sure why anyone would want to arm-punch with a guy that's trying to knock their head off, but if you like it, then go for it.
That is because if he does WC right, he can keep on hitting the opponent and the opponent would not be able to hit him. If u punch and lean forward, your opponent can sense it and pull u to make u fly away. The pelvis tilt prevents it from happening. And, if the form is correct, he cannot be pushed over frontally. Please watch the videos. It'll be a really really long explanation.
I thought the same thing till I saw these videos. Jin explained the internal aspect of WC really really well. He has demonstrations too. I saw those old WC master could not be pushed down just amazed me. The pelvis tilted forward and the back goes back. Please watch the video. WC works, cuz it is battle tested.
Where's video of old wing chun masters not being able to be pushed down? I'm sure that if they wanted to stand still and be tested, any judoka could show the flaw in their stance. Jin's a nice guy but has yet to truly demo anything. He talks, but I don't see any "doing" yet. Let him move around with a guy trying to hit him and see where the pelvic tilt and arm punching goes.
There is pros and cons in every style, move and form. So, WC is NOT perfect. WC structure can ONLY sink the pushing force from the front. So, WC practioners will try to face the opponent most of the time.
Jun Fan is at least 50% WC. Bruce Lee just implement kicking and grappling in the mix. WC don't kick high is not to lose balance while off balancing opponents and finish them quickly. Basically, u can see the similarity in Krav Maga. If u don't want to learn u don't have to watch these. Just believe in your way. Your do.
The pelvic tilt is implemeted long time ago. If u look at the video, the position of the shoulders from the side are the same horizontally. And, if u see all Bruce Lee movies, he had it all the time.
Just think of yourself as a new learner and look at the videos. If u think it is totally BS, u really don't have to watch them.
A lot of people think karate is BS and there is a karateka champ proves it that it is not so.
No, if you look at the video, the shoulders are back over Jin's buttocks. And, Bruce Lee and Michada have NOTHING to do with this conversation.
When JIN demos what he's talking about in a sparring situation against someone that isn't just giving it to him, I'll be impressed. Until then, he's like any other guy out there hellbent on talking their way to truth.
Watch importance of body structure Jin's his website. the one in youtube is incomplete.
Bruce Lee and Michada have everything to do with this conversation. U r not satisfied with the pelvic tilt. But pelvic tilt was already proven to be a more structurally and scientifically sound structure. That is why Bruce Lee still uses the tilt in JKD.
Jin's is a pupil of Hawkins Cheung who is a close friend and sparring partner of Bruce. so...
Someone already mentioned the video on this page, but I highly recommend that you check out "Importance of Body Structure" on Jin's site. Julius is a big guy, and Jin handles him pretty easily, so his WC is the real deal.
I checked out that vid, and if Julius was really trying to hit him instead of help with a demo, things would be entirely different.
Watch Jin's sifu on youtube as he uses an entirely different structure to apply throws and defend against a grappler, then tell me Jin's structure is the real deal.
i respect your comment, but it's a poor example. Hawkins video that you are referring to was shot sometime in the 70's. way before my time.
since i've been training with him, he's already changed his method twice, what you see me teaching or demonstrating in my tutorials is Hawkins method as he teaches it today. but then again, what do i know.
Honestly, I don't see what you're trying to imply. No the structure is not the same, but then again, that was a video from a long time ago, and people change. Given time, Hawkins Cheung could learn to apply his WC structure to work against TDs. The evidence? One of Jin's students won silver at the Grappler X tournament this year, and if you watch the video, he clearly uses WC structure to stuff the TD attempts.
As for Julius, what do you expect, a full out street fight? It's training.
His structure doesn't work against TDs--you can see his pelvis IS NOT TUCKED while the TD is being attempted, and he does not have a straight back. You can watch the footage. And nowhere in there do I see any attempt at a throw. Wonder why not. WC doesn't contain any TDs?
Julius and Jin actually sparring (medium contact) would've done wonders to prove that this WC concept works under pressure.
Actually, if Jin could post some sparring footage, that'd be better than existing videos.
Are you referring to the Hawkins footage, or the clip of Jin's student in the grappling tourney? If the latter, I can only assume that you don't understand WC at all, or have never practiced it. And so what if WC doesn't have any TDs? It can still be made to work AGAINST TDs if you use some imagination. I honestly don't understand what you're trying to get at?
I'm referring to the grappling tourney. The structure is not using the shovel method. His hips dip backward as the shot is attempted, and many times you can see the upper body lean forward in order to sense the TD coming. Not the WC structure Jin is showing in this vid. If it was, his student would get taken down every time.
And as for Jin sparring, if he wants to put that footage out that's his business. He doesn't owe you or me anything. And besides, think about how big Julius is, and thus how strong he is compared to Jin. He couldn't touch Jin, and it was clear that he was trying. I would love to see footage of you preventing a much larger individual from touching you. Show us how it's done, man!
That's all I'll say, cause I'm spending way too much time on here trying to debate you! :)
Demos are only demos--marketing. We know that if Julius was intent on punching Jin, he would do so, much like any competent boxer would. I don't have to show anything, as there are many places I could point you to with proper structure that actually have sparring vids up.
Check out Crazy Monkey Boxing, for one. They have proper structure, and can produce fighters. They also have sparring footage.
Hi pal! :-~) Question about the percentage of the weight on the legs.
Since the goal is that the stance should "automatically" retreat after pressure becomes stronger than your muscle ability, I do not understand why it is better to delay this retreat by going 40-60. Does it add to its "springy" effect? I never felt it yet so I can not know, but this is the only thing I can imagine...
Jin, not bad. I saw another vid where a guy was saying that you need to lift your spine up during the punch. also others say open chest up during punch.
The better way is to already have this lifted up - relaxed but up before contact. leaving it up and the spine elongated (oropen) from the start and the whole time.
It's nice to see a WC video here on YT where structure is understood.
Without structure WC is useless.
Shovel principle and dead lifts are definately good ways of understanding WC structure that I hadn't seen before, thank you.
Hawkins knows his stuff. However a bit different footwork to my sigung WSL, and also the way the punches are applied, we rarely throw a punch standing still, it's always with a driving step.
i find not placing any focus on where weight is distribute rather focus on the pulling up of the spine and correct alignment of hips and spine is the key.
another important factor is when you do get into your stance and rotate the hips. make sure you can feel the tension drop away. don't suport your stance with muscle tension. support you stance with the thought.
I practice karate, and I found out this principle when I stopped jumping on my feet searching for a more stable stance (I'm 47 so I'm getting old :P ).
But you have clarified and explained this really well.
Hi, great tutorial; ive always stayed on my toes and I can feel a huge difference when I use the heels instead. But I'm wondering...would mobility be compromised too much by staying on the heels?
@FU0C0 It's more economical in the long run, too, as you can give powerful punches straight off, as opposed to having to root your stance to throw a powerful punch, if you're on your toes and you punch something hard, you'll just topple over. With Wing Chun, your stance is rooted anyway, so it's one less move to worry about.
I think you guys exaggerate the importance of driving down through the heels. WC does emphasize spreading the weight out through your foot. A boxer will stay on his toes, a Chinese boxing stance stays on the toes as well, however the ankles are more flexible and bent farther so that weight is put on your heels as well. WC emphasizes the importance of movement and rooting stemming from Kidney 1 reflexology/acupuncture points (bubbling well point). This is on the ball of your foot.
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ommozy 4 weeks ago
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ommozy 4 weeks ago
type 3 to type 1 lever.
peterf16 1 month ago
lol the shovel looked kinda gay lol
Shadowx209 3 months ago
Rely on structure, I will use that for my Baguazhang training. Thank you sir!
krntiger81 3 months ago
while this doesnt fit with my chosen style of movement it is an EXCELLENT breakdown of posture and mechanics. you give us an every day reference of the shovel, and back it up with good solid kinetics. in my humble opinion this is a great example of how to pass on usable principles to students. i could watch this a few times and feel comfortable in passing it on to my students and let them decide if it is for them. thats what i consider to be a great lesson. much respect..
MrByaeger 4 months ago
So hands low & chin up, is good wing chun!
0713mas 6 months ago
chinese boxing just isnt as good as western boxing and both are childs play compared to muay thai. I dont understand why people still practice this stuff.
hopked 7 months ago
@hopked never study with blinders on
stompySharpNpointy 5 months ago
Hi @chinaboxer, where did you learn wing chun?.
regards.
Kasper
Kasper892 9 months ago
Good video Chinaboxer. I understand what your showing. It's all about structure. Thanks
kungfuspic 11 months ago
looks like hes lifting a giant penis
jelloofhell 1 year ago
2:07 its like a erection
DaGoldC 1 year ago
AHH now I get it... Hawkings student. No wonder.
kizzbluntstryke 1 year ago
the camera man fails in this video
weiholau 1 year ago
He is good to explain what to do, and why to do it. it is so easy talk that a baby can learn it.
Fleigo 2 years ago 9
master wong thought me to put 100% weight on the back leg. now i know why its so hard to turn walk
jovellenz 2 years ago
WC=lots and lots and LOTS of talking
SurveyofFilmMusic 2 years ago
I was taught 40 /60 weight distribution as well. How would you even move back with 0/100?
No0031 2 years ago
the thing being with 0\100 is that your suposed to constantly change your lead leg to move
wrsatm 2 years ago
china boxer do you have any affiliates in chicago area?
loyaltyswords 2 years ago
Except your elbows take off when to type you but otherwise it is good^^
antgirave222 2 years ago
Enough of this nonsense , too much to say about the art. just keep practicing what you believe in because this concept of yours don't work if somebody knock your head off and put you to sleep. Do you think you can talk more after that?
jeromeleila 2 years ago
That´s how I learned it, and now I know why :D Great video, keep it up!
DarkmanFlow 2 years ago
I don't know how it's considered good structure to lean back when throwing punches forward.
nomamao 2 years ago
@nomamao this where my thoughts too, why leaning back when punching? i got taught to do a crunches-like movement when throwing a fist. that means that i tense my abdominal muscles, also using the hip and NOT lean back my body from the abdomen upwards, BUT take your head back when doing this.
ps: nice bruce lee hair, i like it^^
abinator00 2 years ago
This sounds a lot more like proper punching structure to me. I prefer to tuck my chin, though. :)
The guy in the video seems like a nice dude, but he needs to realize that punching like that can't be good for fighting at all. UNLESS, he's used it in a competition and it's worked for him. I'd have to see it to believe it, though.
nomamao 2 years ago
It's not so much 'leaning back" to the extent where you aren't putting any body into the punch, the reason in wing chun why we pull the hips forward and 'isolate' the arms with our strikes is to simply prevent the opponent from using that against us. For example, when someone uses their shoulders/top half of body with the strike putting more pressure forward/leaning forward, we will use that against them by letting that energy follow past us and finish by closing the gap, attacking the center.
GunzFan07 2 years ago
Well, there's always a counter, so I'm not that concerned with arm-punching to save myself a counter. But, to each their own.
nomamao 2 years ago
Check out Jin's other videos on structures. Basically, if u do the structure correctly, there will not be shock in your punches. because it all goes to the floor. And, it is not leaning back, but hunch the back till it is straight to make a thing called top triangle. Just watch the videos on structure.
supertarzan12 2 years ago
Well, I would watch all his videos, if it wasn't for the fact HE'S leaning back as he explains the shovel method and punching HIMSELF. I'm not sure why anyone would want to arm-punch with a guy that's trying to knock their head off, but if you like it, then go for it.
nomamao 2 years ago
That is because if he does WC right, he can keep on hitting the opponent and the opponent would not be able to hit him. If u punch and lean forward, your opponent can sense it and pull u to make u fly away. The pelvis tilt prevents it from happening. And, if the form is correct, he cannot be pushed over frontally. Please watch the videos. It'll be a really really long explanation.
supertarzan12 2 years ago
Forward pressure and leaning back are exclusive to each other. Think about it.
nomamao 2 years ago
I thought the same thing till I saw these videos. Jin explained the internal aspect of WC really really well. He has demonstrations too. I saw those old WC master could not be pushed down just amazed me. The pelvis tilted forward and the back goes back. Please watch the video. WC works, cuz it is battle tested.
supertarzan12 2 years ago
Where's video of old wing chun masters not being able to be pushed down? I'm sure that if they wanted to stand still and be tested, any judoka could show the flaw in their stance. Jin's a nice guy but has yet to truly demo anything. He talks, but I don't see any "doing" yet. Let him move around with a guy trying to hit him and see where the pelvic tilt and arm punching goes.
nomamao 2 years ago
Watch the videos.
supertarzan12 2 years ago
There is pros and cons in every style, move and form. So, WC is NOT perfect. WC structure can ONLY sink the pushing force from the front. So, WC practioners will try to face the opponent most of the time.
supertarzan12 2 years ago
I suggest you copy Jun Fan, and leave the WC alone.
nomamao 2 years ago
Jun Fan is at least 50% WC. Bruce Lee just implement kicking and grappling in the mix. WC don't kick high is not to lose balance while off balancing opponents and finish them quickly. Basically, u can see the similarity in Krav Maga. If u don't want to learn u don't have to watch these. Just believe in your way. Your do.
supertarzan12 2 years ago
Everyone faces their opponent most of the time. Just not while leaning back.
nomamao 2 years ago
The pelvic tilt is implemeted long time ago. If u look at the video, the position of the shoulders from the side are the same horizontally. And, if u see all Bruce Lee movies, he had it all the time.
Just think of yourself as a new learner and look at the videos. If u think it is totally BS, u really don't have to watch them.
A lot of people think karate is BS and there is a karateka champ proves it that it is not so.
supertarzan12 2 years ago
No, if you look at the video, the shoulders are back over Jin's buttocks. And, Bruce Lee and Michada have NOTHING to do with this conversation.
When JIN demos what he's talking about in a sparring situation against someone that isn't just giving it to him, I'll be impressed. Until then, he's like any other guy out there hellbent on talking their way to truth.
nomamao 2 years ago
Watch importance of body structure Jin's his website. the one in youtube is incomplete.
Bruce Lee and Michada have everything to do with this conversation. U r not satisfied with the pelvic tilt. But pelvic tilt was already proven to be a more structurally and scientifically sound structure. That is why Bruce Lee still uses the tilt in JKD.
Jin's is a pupil of Hawkins Cheung who is a close friend and sparring partner of Bruce. so...
supertarzan12 2 years ago
Someone already mentioned the video on this page, but I highly recommend that you check out "Importance of Body Structure" on Jin's site. Julius is a big guy, and Jin handles him pretty easily, so his WC is the real deal.
angelsonx 2 years ago
I checked out that vid, and if Julius was really trying to hit him instead of help with a demo, things would be entirely different.
Watch Jin's sifu on youtube as he uses an entirely different structure to apply throws and defend against a grappler, then tell me Jin's structure is the real deal.
nomamao 2 years ago
i respect your comment, but it's a poor example. Hawkins video that you are referring to was shot sometime in the 70's. way before my time.
since i've been training with him, he's already changed his method twice, what you see me teaching or demonstrating in my tutorials is Hawkins method as he teaches it today. but then again, what do i know.
chinaboxer 2 years ago 7
Does he still work in a throwing and grappling range? And, if so, does he apply the method you are showing when working that range?
nomamao 2 years ago
Honestly, I don't see what you're trying to imply. No the structure is not the same, but then again, that was a video from a long time ago, and people change. Given time, Hawkins Cheung could learn to apply his WC structure to work against TDs. The evidence? One of Jin's students won silver at the Grappler X tournament this year, and if you watch the video, he clearly uses WC structure to stuff the TD attempts.
As for Julius, what do you expect, a full out street fight? It's training.
angelsonx 2 years ago
His structure doesn't work against TDs--you can see his pelvis IS NOT TUCKED while the TD is being attempted, and he does not have a straight back. You can watch the footage. And nowhere in there do I see any attempt at a throw. Wonder why not. WC doesn't contain any TDs?
Julius and Jin actually sparring (medium contact) would've done wonders to prove that this WC concept works under pressure.
Actually, if Jin could post some sparring footage, that'd be better than existing videos.
nomamao 2 years ago
Are you referring to the Hawkins footage, or the clip of Jin's student in the grappling tourney? If the latter, I can only assume that you don't understand WC at all, or have never practiced it. And so what if WC doesn't have any TDs? It can still be made to work AGAINST TDs if you use some imagination. I honestly don't understand what you're trying to get at?
angelsonx 2 years ago
I'm referring to the grappling tourney. The structure is not using the shovel method. His hips dip backward as the shot is attempted, and many times you can see the upper body lean forward in order to sense the TD coming. Not the WC structure Jin is showing in this vid. If it was, his student would get taken down every time.
nomamao 2 years ago
And as for Jin sparring, if he wants to put that footage out that's his business. He doesn't owe you or me anything. And besides, think about how big Julius is, and thus how strong he is compared to Jin. He couldn't touch Jin, and it was clear that he was trying. I would love to see footage of you preventing a much larger individual from touching you. Show us how it's done, man!
That's all I'll say, cause I'm spending way too much time on here trying to debate you! :)
angelsonx 2 years ago
Demos are only demos--marketing. We know that if Julius was intent on punching Jin, he would do so, much like any competent boxer would. I don't have to show anything, as there are many places I could point you to with proper structure that actually have sparring vids up.
Check out Crazy Monkey Boxing, for one. They have proper structure, and can produce fighters. They also have sparring footage.
nomamao 2 years ago
great vid! damn he's good at explaining the concepts
damnshitusername 2 years ago
Hi pal! :-~) Question about the percentage of the weight on the legs.
Since the goal is that the stance should "automatically" retreat after pressure becomes stronger than your muscle ability, I do not understand why it is better to delay this retreat by going 40-60. Does it add to its "springy" effect? I never felt it yet so I can not know, but this is the only thing I can imagine...
Thanks beforehand!
FanatikosKafetzis 2 years ago
Good little family/community...You shared the shovel concept once before...Thanks again
04260076 2 years ago
its a real cool lesson man. is real funny the way it looks when you try to charge it to the front.
my mom entered to my room and foundme making the workout and said to me "oh no... just as i expected... yo looks too much tv."
ricoguillen 2 years ago
Jas...Great Stuff! I showed my freids ur vieo and all of them are martial arts enthusiest..they loved it....Well done buddy!
JettoGospel 2 years ago
Jin, not bad. I saw another vid where a guy was saying that you need to lift your spine up during the punch. also others say open chest up during punch.
The better way is to already have this lifted up - relaxed but up before contact. leaving it up and the spine elongated (oropen) from the start and the whole time.
dhorse7 2 years ago
It's nice to see a WC video here on YT where structure is understood.
Without structure WC is useless.
Shovel principle and dead lifts are definately good ways of understanding WC structure that I hadn't seen before, thank you.
Hawkins knows his stuff. However a bit different footwork to my sigung WSL, and also the way the punches are applied, we rarely throw a punch standing still, it's always with a driving step.
LatSauJikChung 2 years ago 2
i find not placing any focus on where weight is distribute rather focus on the pulling up of the spine and correct alignment of hips and spine is the key.
dhorse7 2 years ago
shit this guy makes good stuff
uberbigbread 2 years ago
das koo das koo
TheSenseofTouch 2 years ago
badass explanation: "im deadlifting him"
lytwielder 2 years ago 2
Bravo as always!
IzzoTrainingSystems 2 years ago
great vid, good point about focusing on the form instead of how hard you are hitting the mitt.
SuperKixxx 2 years ago
Thanks a lot bro, you are a great teacher, your passion helps us here..great work, i wish i found your vids much earlier..
Execution0 2 years ago 2
this video was really good this helped me out a lot thanks
darthwolfX2 2 years ago
Great explanation of this imporant concept , and a shovel is a great visual ! Thanks for posting !
sjander29 2 years ago
another important factor is when you do get into your stance and rotate the hips. make sure you can feel the tension drop away. don't suport your stance with muscle tension. support you stance with the thought.
dhorse7 2 years ago
Thanks you for the great explanation.
I practice karate, and I found out this principle when I stopped jumping on my feet searching for a more stable stance (I'm 47 so I'm getting old :P ).
But you have clarified and explained this really well.
Thank you again.
dodo23762 2 years ago 2
Thanks guys!
WeakHeadphones 2 years ago
Hi, great tutorial; ive always stayed on my toes and I can feel a huge difference when I use the heels instead. But I'm wondering...would mobility be compromised too much by staying on the heels?
FU0C0 2 years ago
why would you chase someone around when you can just give him the "middle finger" and watch him come to you.
chinaboxer 2 years ago 12
Hahaha nice. And I'm assuming that there'd be no need to dodge when he comes charging at you if your heel's sufficiently grounded to absorb the blow?
FU0C0 2 years ago
@chinaboxer haha, good one bro!
opti2007 1 year ago
@FU0C0 It's more economical in the long run, too, as you can give powerful punches straight off, as opposed to having to root your stance to throw a powerful punch, if you're on your toes and you punch something hard, you'll just topple over. With Wing Chun, your stance is rooted anyway, so it's one less move to worry about.
OverFjell 1 year ago
@OverFjell
I think you guys exaggerate the importance of driving down through the heels. WC does emphasize spreading the weight out through your foot. A boxer will stay on his toes, a Chinese boxing stance stays on the toes as well, however the ankles are more flexible and bent farther so that weight is put on your heels as well. WC emphasizes the importance of movement and rooting stemming from Kidney 1 reflexology/acupuncture points (bubbling well point). This is on the ball of your foot.
ThirdEyeLight 1 year ago
hi guys
phoenixifist 2 years ago 4
hey there, phoenixfist. =D
chinaboxer 2 years ago