Re: Long Video Sunday IX

[TheBlackenedWHITE]

love your piercings.

[michaelsomebodymusic]

I may be missing something... But you said that the fear of god doesn't work based on historical evidence, and this is true in my opinion. However, where I feel you are mistaken is declaring Jon's situation the same as God's. Unlike God (to the people in this fictional world), Jon was real (the people interacted with him and witnessed his power, unlike his counter part as you claim, God), which I believe makes all the difference. Though, I still agree that the movie could not stand on its own.

[chrisw40]

gee your smart barf.

[RationalEmotive]

Xena character?!

You mean Silk Spectre aka Laurie Juspeczyk.

This is high treason! You are not a fan, idiot.

You cannot criticize an alternate universe if you do not know the names of the main characters.

Go watch Lord of the Rings!

(I am partly being sarcastic about fan cults which are too enthusiastic.)

[666lordbyron666]

Dr Manhattan should have stayed the fuck out of planet i didn't see his point coming back to earth..secondly an alternate ending would be to nuke the whole fucking world. Yea fuck it..no more fucking movies and no more drama. I say end it all

[666lordbyron666]

Adding soundbites like that is fucking annoying!! cant you just do a whole video so we can see your train of thought manufacturing Just lost respect for you man :(

[digiring]

The perfect being as you are forcing the meaning and "the perfect being" between two lovers is something entirely different.

I think you are smarter than this and got it. I think this point of view is manufactured for fun and attention. Nothing wrong with that though. It's just pretty transparent.

[thisithis]

I don't get it. I'm a comic book fan. But it's just a movie based on a graphic novel. But it's just a movie that Alan Moore as come out saying he as not happy with the film. SO, why the fuck dose TheAmazingAtheist or TJ have to go ape shit over that movie. I just don't get it???

[GwydionMapDon]

Also, there was so much in the film that was contrary to viewing Adrien's actions as correct. I mean, the very act itself calls that into question! John's acceptance was purely utilitarian.

There are just so many things you say that show you totally miss the point even in your misunderstanding of why John returned to earth. It wasn't specifically for love of "the Xena girl" as you termed her, but rather that he had newfound interest in humanity in general which she happened to spark.

[GwydionMapDon]

It isn't "we better behave or God will kill us," it's "the enemy of my enemy is my friend." John became the common threat, not the being to be obeyed. There was nothing implicit or explicit that said he was punishing people for not settling their differences. Instead, the idea was that he was a callous, malevolent force in the minds of men that was of such overwhelming power that they needed each other to have any hope of combating it. This is not analogous to God.

[BottomContributor]

1. You did seem to not understand why he went away in the first video. 2. He doesn't change his mind based on her tragedies but rather on the miracle that each person is against their odds, but since it's such a common miracle, it gets overlooked. 3. Jon accepts this role because he loves humanity enough that he knows any other way would mean that humanity would destroy itself. He sacrifices himself for humanity.

[necrosvrg]

the only problem that i can see with your john is god idea is that while yes they may fear him as if he were a god the new coalition of nations was planing on fighting him. for instance when nixon said: we have joined forces to combat this terror, or some thing along those lines. usualy when people try to enstill the fear of god its not as an enemy but as a master with absolute power. just sayin that i didn't get the fear of god message out of the movie

[brokennarcissist]

Loved the TPB, have no appetiate to see the movie. I'm glad to see someone approaching it with a fresh perspective as I'm tired of hearing glowing reviews. The comic was a commentary of the continuity of comics and where that medium was headed, not film. It was the official putting to rest of the golden and silver age that allowed for the ushering in of the revisionist age of superheroes ashcans.

[catwoodrefusal]

"gods wrath doesn't get us to change our behaviors... if you know for a fact that there is a guy in the sky thats gonna harm you if you don't settle your differences...doesn't work..."

C'mon man you're eloquent, or at least your editing portrays you that way, and you promote your own style of intelligence but you go and make a statement like that.

[catwoodrefusal]

It doesn't work because if someone believes in a "god" then they won't stand for believing in someones elses god, which obviously comes along with certain beliefs, rules, commandments, promises to kill yourself in the name of your god, or whatever it may be.

[catwoodrefusal]

So how are people expected to settle their differences when peoples differences start at the very core of their beliefs. At least in the case of Dr Manhattan everyone was forced to believe in him because he existed and had a measurable impact on the world around him, so now everybody is reading from the same page, never mind the same book.

[azrienoch]

I don't get it. So you failed that hard on purpose?

[CivysCare4Soldiers2]

Went to see the movie, and analysed it critically , thinking about what economic forces where influencing the writers and movie makers.

I dont like chairs in cinema's that have two plastic arm rests with a cup holder. They kind of restrain the person from moving to far left or right.maybe to prevent non passive people causing reaction in the crowd, is this really needed now?

[LanceDirk]

I know you're not going to read the comic, but the conversation I think made a lot more sense in it. In the movie, the combination of it's brevity, and the fact that the actress playing Silk Spectre does not act well, and that the comedian's role in the movie was less emphasized, it came out as less meaningful than it should have. I, having read the comic, already felt that his change was well justified, so I didn't mind it being truncated in the movie.

[LanceDirk]

Spoke too soon. Anyway, as to him suddenly loving humanity and then leaving it, that part is different in the comic. And he says that he'll make some life, and, as you'll see, his appreciation for life still conforms to his objectivity and his love of probability. So his appreciation for life is not specific to life on earth. Maybe his act of leaving Laurie is an act of selflessness on her behalf.

[Trollschool]

So are a lot of your books in storage? Hope you didn't sell them - book sales should always correspond with an estate sale of the dead.

Anyway, I suppose you're smiling because you're in the kitchen. That was always the spot that made me smile whenever I was there.

[JustA11en]

TJ rarely presents a diatribe supported by facts.

His target demographic is angry children who think rambling emotional rhetoric passes for actual discourse. Do you honestly think TJ, or any of his tweenybopper fanboys would attempt to win an argument IRL? They cower in the shadows, go home, and take their great vengeance AND FURIOS ANGER out on the keyboards of the world.

[StevenErnest]

Az, do me a favor:

Turn off the webcam, turn off -- or down -- the Stickam -- and sally forth to your nearest Barnes & Noble or Borders or local comics shop (assuming they are still in business ;) -- and get a copy of the bloody graphic novel.

Read it.

Seriously, I will refund your purchase price if you hate it as much as the film.

I'm sure you'll find faults. Actually, in fandom, the ending has always been considered a bit of a let down -- not ethically, but from the previous 11 issues.

[azrienoch]

I have no doubts that I'll love the comic. It won't change the movie.

[loveisallneed]

Yeah, I kinda feel that way about The Passion. Not that I'll love the comic, but reading it wouldn't make the movie any better.

[StevenErnest]

The final scene on Mars with Jon and his gf, takes the entire 27 pages of Issue/Chapter IX, "The Darkness of Mere Being;" a beautiful sequence, many of the best lines were cut.

You've probably heard that they tweaked the ending; essentially the same result, but it downplays the Jon/God stuff quite a bit.

The story is full of epiphanies, which by their nature are made of gossamer.

Yes, I agree that a film should stand on its own, I understand your interpretation given the film's presentation.

[Vonii27]

this guy is smart

i met him in C0ct0pus's video Chat room :)

ey!!! Galvoni gives you a shotout jeff :D

[TheThinkingMinority]

John didn't care much for humans and humanity in general. He rather enjoyed looking at the mountains and examine their formation and stuff like that. But his interest in Silk Spectre and humanity in general came from that conversation with her because he saw that humans can go beyond that level of complexion and do stuff that defy logic. The fact that the original Silk Spectre was still in love in the Comedian even 'tho he tried to rape her and brutally beat her and so on.

[pyrrho314]

could you please tell me the exact point he talks about you so I can not watch 1:04?

[azrienoch]

It's the beginning. It's pretty clear when he stops. The whole thing is less than 10 minutes.

[JamieA3OZ]

right in the begining

[billybobhobnob101]

There's a problem with Watchmen but it has nothing to do with anything you address in your video review- the problem is that Dr Manhattan for all his god like powers acts like a moron-If I had his powers I could have world peace by threatening no more than 600-1000 people in power with death- leaders only opt for war because they are not paying a personal price- anyway if you can suspend disbelief that a moron-god could exist then the rest of the film is fine.

[BottomContributor]

The thing is that Dr. Manhattan didn't think the plan before it happened. Perhaps if he did he would have threatened people and done it this way. With his powers he could have even made all nukes disappears. The thing is that the destruction of the cities happens without his knowledge and he accepts the good of what came out of it. You must also remember that Jon repeatedly says that he's just a puppet that sees the strings. There's no free will in this world of his.

[MassZombicide]

FUCK! I didn't notice what the video was about when I clicked on it. SPOILER ALERT to people who see the comments first. :(

[thingthingy]

Yeah, it was odd in the movie, that scene on Mars was incredibly badly written. They tried to lift dialogue from the comic but they randomly dropped bits and pieces of dialogue, so it lost it's emotional impact. Most fans of the comic get more pissed that people who haven't read it won't know how good it could be.

They didn't really seem to change their mind in the comic, really, they more realised that they can't tell anyone or more people would die, less just agreeing with Veight.

[Spalg]

azrienoch's piercings walk into a bar. His nose ring turns to his earring and says "Hey, I don't like the way you're kind of jangling at me" and the earring says "Shut the fuck up."

[awerner2007]

hopefully, you take on TAA once again when you actually are right.

[Cerebrocaust]

As someone who has read the comic, I do think your view of the movie is more clear than a fan of the book's is. That conversation on Mars is a great example - in the book, it's one of the most beautiful and profound scenes in any piece of fiction I've ever encountered. It is, however, about thirty pages long. In the movie, they're forced to cut out all the subtle nuances and dramatic pacing to the point that the scene loses almost all of its power and comes across as shallow and silly.

[Cerebrocaust]

For a fan of the book, it's easy to look at the movie and fill in the blanks with all the things you already know. It's hard to remove yourself from that position and see the movie as what it should be: something that's able to stand on its own and deliver the same experience as the book, which it succeeds in only briefly and in a hollow sort of sense.

[StevenErnest]

Cerebrocaust, great point! It is probably my favorite sequence of the story, and as you said, it comprises the entirety of Chapter/Issue IX. They cut some of the best lines. Hopefully, some of it may show up in the Director's Cut, but I'm sure it won't be 100 percent.

Yes, if one is familiar with the novel, they can fill in events. I'm sure Az would greatly enjoy the novel.

[TogetherForPeace]

you got pwned by TAA! lol jk :)

[jizzywix1993]

poor poor tj

[PianoIsTheRemedy]

I seldom disagree with you buddy, but I watched the movie on Friday and was delighted. The sex and violence was fantastic. And I did enjoy the story. One thing I would say is that I think many of your criticisms are about justification of actions or motives behind actions, and I think for this particular work it requires some "fiat". In debate, when we elaborated on a bill or policy, we could magically "fiat" the funding and the act of congress necessary to pass it...

[PianoIsTheRemedy]

I think this story was so ambitious, that one almost needs to grant some faith in the back story and faith in the motivations, like Dr. Manhattan's isolation from humanity, etc. Especially since we jump into the story after the heyday of their superhero careers. We kind of have to assume some of the history. I feel like there is probably a technical literary term for the type of "faith" I'm proposing, but not sure what it is.

[PianoIsTheRemedy]

But secondly, I get a hardon for anything even remotely philosophical that makes me think coming out of Hollywood. There is so much shit that is cranked out for the masses, I see about 2 or 3 movies that tackle philosophical concepts like this per year that are made for wide audiences. You have to agree most superhero movies are absolute drivel. I just hope the trend continues... if something even pseudophilosophical sells, perhaps we will get a little more of what we want.

[StevenErnest]

Piano, I like your comments, but I don't get the "fiat" thing.

If you really liked the movie, I suggest you read the graphic novel. I  had goosebumps during the film, at how much they got right.

But my one concern has been born out by intelligent viewers like Az: That so much dense info and events and characterization were condensced so tightly, that many nuaces and subtlties were lost. Hopefully, the longer anticipated Director's Cut DVD will help much of this. Of course, there are flaws.

[PianoIsTheRemedy]

By fiat, I mean that I give the story some "leeway" when it comes to the intricacies of the plot and the back story and all the subtleties of the character development. I knew it was based on a graphic novel but that fitting a 12 part comic book series into a movie would be a momentous undertaking. As an example, I love the work of Charles Dickens. Movie adaptations are lacking in subtlety, but I understand the problem of adaptation...

[PianoIsTheRemedy]

I couldn't quite think of the right word to describe what I meant by "fiat". Creative license? The point is that while there are holes and flaws in the movie if one looks closely enough, I was more content to watch the movie with a bias that it was enjoyable and fun to watch. It's kind of like a beautiful woman with a hole dark closet of flaws. You get sucked in by the beauty and ignore the flaws or find them endearing.

[g0at]

Fallacy of not reading watchmen comic book. Pwned

[kylester89]

movie sucked, end of story.

[cehbeach]

You have got to be shitting me.

[nacgonegal]

John was flawed with too many human traits. I never bought the 'god' idea. He was definitly powerful. Although, the last words of the movie kinda point the finger.

[MrsScarletScolex]

Oh no he didn't!

[TheTheifInYourHead]

just watched your review too

... i'm guessing it is a good thing The Watchmen is not out in scotland yet

[zakkmiester]

I just saw it.

It was awsome.

I personaly think it's better than Az makes it out as.

[themadnice]

It's not? I saw it about 3 hours ago and I live in Scotland.

[TheTheifInYourHead]

Its not?

well i suppose that just proves my ignorance to the film indusrty.

... I really had no idea it was out yet...

hmm...?

[NwZ2]

Your mustache is back again.

[NwZ2]

Uh oh. It's on!

[jessie1299]

oh boy..