Elway needs to grow up and go home. He is like the High School athlete that comes back to high school expecting the return glory days. Give me a break. Go Away Elway! He ran the Colorado Crush into the ground and now he is out to screw up the Broncos.
I'm going over these old vids and compairing them to The infamous TEBOW! Tebow is a work in progress but this vids and knowing that ELWAY can mentor him.Makes me think that in afew yrs DENVER is gonna be the team to beat
Im a Broncos fan and people have been calling them the Donkeys since the team formed in '60, way before Shannon and Terell. Fans even call them that. Like calling the Dolphins the Fish And the term you obviously meant for Elway is BOW- legged, not BULL legged! That will spare you any future shame if you encounter any BOW legged bulls... which you wont. Go Donkeys!
Big deal. Any quarterback can throw across the field. The Broncos were pretty average until Terrel Davis came along. because Elway can't run or scramble very well. He is not a running quarterback. I remember before Shannon Sharpe and Terrel Davis, peopel were calling Denver Broncos the Donkeys, because they would have mediocre results. If you ever meet Elway, you will notice he is bull legged and cannot run.
Montana coulden't start today........ with that ragger muffin arm. Montana had rice,Craig,Taylor,Jones, the best oline in league history the first west coast offense ever(Best coach ever). and the best dfense in the league. Elway never had anything. He stared in 5 super bowls. All he needed was 1 other star...Terrel Davis. Then he went back to back, Retired Superbowl champion and Pro Bowler. Montana got chased out of the league like Farve.
@sergiotico13 And who were those people who played for the Bengals that the mighty Montana beat? Oh? Can't name them? Neither can most people because that was a no name team that Montana got to play against.
@sergiotico13 Montana coulden't start today........ with that ragger muffin arm. Montana had rice,Craig,Taylor,Jones, the best oline in league history the first west coast offense ever(Best coach ever). and the best dfense in the league. Elway never had anything. He stared in 5 super bowls. All he needed was 1 other star...Terrel Davis. Then he went back to back, Retired Superbowl champion and Pro Bowler. Montana got chased out of the league like Farve.
@tomcardello HEY HEY HEY!!!! dont talk about Ken O'Brien like that!! just joking, im a Jets fan. but Hell yes, Montana is the undisputed greatest QB of all time
@tomcardello I understand what your saying, but I believe that players and teams who are able to get wins in those make or break situations, even when the game plan has been thrown out the window, is what really determines greatness. Anyone can read a script and attempt to follow it, but when shit hits the fan for whatever the reason may be, Elway always seemed to know how to get the job done.
@tomcardello Sounds to me like your another one of those people that only care about statistical analysis. I agree that his quarterback rating was subpar at best, but take a look at how many 4th quarter combacks and game winning drives Elway had. A combined value of close to 100, more than any other quarterback. Not to mention he holds other unique records, such as most rushing touchdowns for a quarterback in superbowl history. His ability to extend a play alone merets his hall of fame induction
@tomcardello Dude im choosing to have weak intellect. This is meerly comments on a youtube video. Anyone that takes anybody that serious over these comments is a chode in my opinion. "I'm gonna judge people by the way they speak to me online, yay!!" Go chase yourself.
@tomcardello Bitch, he was on a shitty team and took them to the superbowl like five times! i'd like to see Manning, Brady, or any other quarterback pull that off.
As great as Elway was i wouldn't really put him in my top 5 NFL Quarterbacks of all time, he makes my top 10 and i put him at #7(no pun intended) but he isn't great enough to make my top 5 but that's my opinion.
@ultimatorsports I appreciate your opinion but, I will tell you where I think you are wrong. I would have Montana 1st and I would have Elway at number 4 and Brady at 5. I can not see Favre in the top 5. I see him 6 or 7. Elway led the Broncos to 5 SB's losing 3 of them. Those 3 teams were mediocre at best and would have not made the playoffs without Elway. Favre was surrounded with solid talent on both sides of the ball. His last 2 years are going to leave a scar on his record as well.
@MultiMrfalcon OK I appreciate your opinion but, I well say this Brett Farve is a sightly better QB then Elway because Farve has all the records. 295 starts, 507 career passing TDs, 71,603 career yards, 6,280 career completions, 10,138 pass attemps, 334 career INTs, also was the first QB of the Superbowl era to win 3 MVP awards(1995-1997) now i will agree that Elway was much better in the clutch then Farve and has more Superbowl rings then Favre i would still go with Farve over Elway.
@ultimatorsports Using your thinking then you would have to put Marino in your top 5. That is why I disagree with you leaving Elway out. Favre took two teams to SB's and won one. The guy has played for 20+ years and has gone to 2 SB's. In the meantime, Elway has gone to 5, won 2 and beat Favre. If you go by passing records then Marino has to b in your top 5. If you add him then how would you keep Elway out?
@MultiMrfalcon If you look at my channel you will see that i have Marino at #8 and i have Elway at #7 so i do think that Elway was a better Quarterback than Marino but however i still think that Farve is better than both of them.
yeh i agree jim brown played against neanderthals and white people who ran 5 second 40 times and barry sanders played against modern athletes simply no comparison
Bloody?? Are you from England?? I was watching Sports Nation today and Colin Cowherd from the herd was talking about how Barry Sanders was the greatest running back in NFL history. I bet if they did a pull on ESPN that people would vote Barry as their #1 running back of all time.
Yeah, probably, but Barry also played in this era of 24/7 sports networks & sports talk radio. Brown didn't have that luxury. If you saw Brown on TV live you're either in your mid-50s, 60s or maybe dead.
I bet if they did a poll on ESPN about who's the greatest QB of all-time, Favre would win by a landslide. If they had a poll on MTV of who the greatest musical artist of all-time is, it would probably be Miley Cyrus. Does that make it fact? Hardly.
Barry is the best I have ever seen for sure. No one did more with less than him...No line, No fullback, no QB, no threat of a REAL passing game until the later years when Scott mitchell had that 4,000 yeard season...
This is why I am able to remain completely unbiased in my QB rankings, as I have no favorite or home team. Unlike biased-Denver-fan you, who probably owns at least 2 pairs of Broncos boxers, a Broncos phone, a Broncos comforter and a giant Elway poster hanging over your bed.
Like I said before, I don't give specific rankings for my top five. Its not fair, they do some things better than one another. But Elway is definitely in my top five.
My Elway poster also has Mobley, Atwater, Smith, McCaffrey, and TD ;)
I disagree on the running back. Barry Sanders was the best.. He had a terrible offensive line and if he never retired early he would of crushed Peyton's record.. Jim Brown and Barry have something in common though. They're the only 2 backs in NFL history to average over 5 yards per carry.
The Sanders O-line thing is a myth. Sure, it wasn't the Cowboys O-line that Emmitt ran behind, but Lomas Brown went to the Pro Bowl every year from 1990-1995. And Kevin Glover was no slouch either.
Barry fans also forget that Jim Brown retired at an earlier age than Sanders did. Brown was 30 when he retired.
If Brown would've played 5 or 6 more seasons, there wouldn't have been a Payton record for Barry to break- Brown would've been up around 17,500 yds.
I'm not arguing that Brown was one of the greatest ever. I just put Brown #2 because I actually went to many of Barry's games and what he did on the field was like watching poetry in motion. Their style of running was way different. Brown was a power-back that physically abused people on the field and ran people over. Barry was the most elusive back of all time and I know you can't argue that. I just think if Barry had a better O-line nobody would touch any of his records.
No, I won't argue that Barry was the most elusive and that they had different running styles. I also agree that he had the most amazing running style ever. But my argument for Brown #1 is based on pure production over a short period of games played. Just my opinion.
Sure, if Barry had a better O-line who knows? But if Jim Brown had a better O-line HE may have done even better than he did- so, as usual, the "what ifs" are totally irrelevent.
All you have to do is compare Sanders' & Brown's first 118 games- which was Brown's entire career. Brown: 12,312 yds Sanders: 11,338 yds Brown: 106 TDs Sanders: 82 TDs Brown: 5.2 avg Sanders: 4.9 avg Brown: 104.3 yds-per-game Sanders 96.0 yds-per-game Brown: 58 100-yd games Sanders: 52 100-yd games Brown: 8 rushing titles Sanders: 2 rushing titles As you can see, it's not even close.
What's you're source on this?? Are you sure about the 4.9 avg for the first 118 games?? All you need to know about Barry Sanders is that Rod Woodson once blew out his knee after Barry cut on a dime and juked Rod's ass. So yep...Rod was left with a blown out knee. hahah. Oh yeah and there's like a billion Jim Brown stories too which I've heard the majority of them. Both backs are unbelievable but I'm taking Barry everyday of the week.
Actually, I'm not a Pats fan. I am a fan of Tom Brady, and great QBs and RBs in general. I never really had a favorite team- probably because I live in a state that has no NFL team.
And what part of ELWAY WAS AWESOME do you translate into "I dislike Elway". Are you having trouble deciphering the English language or what? Jeez....!
The biggest thing you can't dispute are his intangibles that make QBs great. Forget about the statistics and just break down the player. Was there any QB with a better arm than Elway? How many Qbs were more slippery and frustrating for defenses to contain? And how many QBs with the game on the line can drive down the field for nearly 50 comeback victories?
I never said Elway wasn't great-- #7 or #8 all-time. What do you think I'm saying with that? That he sucks??
I could give a rat's ass about arm strength. Jamarcus Russell has great arm strength, Jay Cutler has great arm strength- I don't see either of those guys impressing me anytime soon. You know who was REALLY slippery and frustrated the shit out of a LOT of NFL defenses? Fran Tarkenton. He's not even in my top 15. Elway was a great 2-minute drill QB, no question there.
All I'm saying is, im my opinion, Montana & Brady (and a few others) are higher up on the list of all-time greatest QBs in NFL history. Elway is top 10. I don't understand what credit Elway fans can take away from what Brady has already accomplished: Taking 3 teams to the super bowl with good-but-not-great talent but actually WINNING with them. Actually, I do understand- it's called BIAS. Denver fans think Elway is God and the debate ends there. Orange & blue BIASED!
That safety absolutely did not turn around the Giants game. The safety occurred in the 2nd quarter and Denver still held a 10-9 lead after it! Momentum is one thing but there was still more than HALF the game left to play! And yeah, when you're down 35-10 you don't stand a chance. But when your QB throws 3 picks, it makes it hard to win even a close game.
As I've said before, look at the other AFC teams during Denver's 80s super bowl seasons. Even Marino's Dolphins finished 8-8, 8-7 and 8-8 those years. One word: default. Montana had MUCH tougher opponents in the NFC. Elway played with 32 Pro Bowlers during the Reeves era and defenses that were ranked #2 ('84), #7 ('87), #1 ('89) and #3 ('91). More than enough talent for a great QB to win a super bowl.
A hipster doofus? Yes, yes, I know Elway was great. He's in my all-time top 10. That's saying a lot. But I've crunched not only the numbers, but all the other stuff that goes into a great QB and I just can't get him much past #7 or #8 all-time.
A defensive breakdown, yes, but Elway threw just 2 TD passes and 6 INTs in those super bowls.
WHY is it that it's always "Elway took those Broncos to those super bowls but the defense blew it"?
dude he played the 1989 niners who's arguably the best nfl team ever and he lost in a fluke against williams where the CB's weren't covering shit and he played against the 1986 giants who had the best linebacker corps and not to mention phil simms nearly played a perfect game that day too!!!
Yeah, I'll agree with that for the most part. The '86 Giants & '89 Niners were monster teams. Elway actually didn't have that bad a game vs the G-men, but his performances in the next two were HORR-I-BLE.
3 picks, 6.8 YPA, 36% completed and a 36.8 QB rating vs the 'Skins...
No TDs, 2 picks, 4.2 YPA, 36.5% and a ridiculous 19.4 QB rating.
I know, I know, if Elway played for the 49ers, blah, blah... To me, he's a top 10 all-time QB...
WHY is it that it's always "Elway took those Broncos to those super bowls but the defense blew it"?
That, you talked about Elway's 6 ints in the 3 superbowls as if they were the deciding factor. Giving up that many points is all on the defense. There was no realistic way for Elway to put up 50+ points with the offense he had around him
Not the absolute deciding factor- I realize that it is a team sport. But when your QB completes 14 of 38 passes, it's kind of hard for your offense to stay on the field, thus, wearing down your defense. After the game, Mark Jackson said Elway wasn't screaming at them in the huddle or during halftime and that he played better when he's yelling at his teammates. Bottom line is, Elway wilted under the pressure of the big game.
14 of 38 with 3 picks isn't the stuff of Super Bowl legends.
But how many of those attempts were because they were behind, thus a defense keys on the pass and with a limited amount of offensive weapons I'd like to see any qb have a good game with that adversity.
Elway is a superbowl legend, even if you don't particularly think so or even like it.
Elway was 2-3 in super bowls. He threw 3 TD passes and 8 INTs in those games. He completed exactly half of his passes and posted a dismal 59.3 QB rating. He threw at least one INT in all five games.
In his first SB win, he completed 12 passes for 123 yds, 0 TDs and 1 INT while T.D. basically handed him a SB ring. It wasn't until the last game of his career that Elway, on one of the best teams in NFL history, finally had a good performance in a SB that Denver won.
That's not a super bowl legend. Montana is a super bowl legend. Bradshaw is a super bowl legend. Starr, a super bowl legend.
Elway is a super bowl cling-on: a QB that only won on teams with a dominant running game that could overcome their QB's inability to produce in the passing game. The best move these QBs made was handing the ball off to an ass-pounding SB MVP running back. Elway joins Griese and Theismann in that group.
What is one of the most memorable plays of Superbowl 32? Tell me, isnt that stuff of legends?
And why do you consistently call Montana and Starr legends when you say the AFC teams were all weak during those era, yet they have formidable team hammer the teams you consider less talented yet theyre legends?
Seems like manipulating everything just so you can bring down Elway.
Still, a majority of the general populace would have Elway iin their top 3, 4 or 5 Qbs while the haters back east wont
Yes, Elway's famous run- I thought it was awesome. But I think it's funny that everyone points to that play as the supposed turning point and NFL Films showed Denver players saying how they knew they were going to win after that play. Really? Did you still feel that way after GB fumbled the ensuing kickoff, giving Denver a chance to pretty much ice the game with a 22-yard field but Elway threw an INT on the very next play? Then Favre drove for a TD to tie the game. It was all T.D. after that.
there are always overlooked moments in the superbowl, even with your Pats.
Against Carolina, if they dont kick that ball out of bounds and give the patriots a ridiculously short field to work with do you think the defense that had been playing so well against them suddenly have opened up to allow them to have Vinatieri kick the game winning FG?
Will you stop with the "if" scenarios already? You can't use "what if" scenarios in a QB debate, or I could come back with any number of "What if Karlis doesn't make that FG in O.T. against Cleveland" or "What if Byner holds onto the ball at the goal line"... it would go on and on and just be a debate about hypothetical situations.
What if Tom Brady would've been killed by a sniper at a Michigan game in 1998? Oh, well, he wouldn't really be that great of an NFL QB then I guess...
AFC teams were not weak in Starr's era because there WAS no AFC in Starr's era. The AFC was very weak in the 80s- they won just 1 super bowl during Elway's first 14 years. I already pointed out Denver's default appearances in those 3 SBs. And Montana had to battle through Parcell's Giants, Gibbs' Skins & Ditka's Bears in the 80s. No small feat. This is not manipulation- these are cold, hard football facts.
Yes, but as we all know, the regular season isn't the postseason- where the pressure is magnified 100 times and if you lose, you don't get to play again the next week. Postseason is where legends are made.
And then there's his ridiculous performance in the 49er game. 10 of 26 for 108 yds, 0 TDs and 2 picks with a 19.4 rating. Yikes! Has there ever been a worse QB performance in super bowl history?
The Dan Reeves Elway was like Fran Tarkenton: an athletic, escape-artist QB who was great but not great enough. The Shanhan Elway was like Troy Aikman: More efficient, effective and a champion but relied heavily on his monster running game & O-line.
Elway comes in right around #7 or #8 on the all-time great QBs list. Anything above #6 is OVERRATED.
Overrated to you and other statistic buffs that overlook intangibles. But there's still a reason Elway ranks near the top in every qb list, and it's not the bias that you think it is.
The arm, the scrambling ability, the comebacks, the ability to win with mediocre teams and put up the numbers he did with his only HOF teammates coming towards the latter part of his career.
Hey, as far as I'm concerned, Elway does rank near the top. Out of the thousands of QBs that have played in the NFL over the last 90 years, Elway is top 10 all-time. I'd say that's near the top.
It's not that I don't like it, it is what it is and I objectively look at it as such. When Elway retired, IMO he WAS top 5 all-time.
1. Montana
2. Starr
3. Unitas
4. Graham
5. Elway
But since then he's been passed by Manning, Brady & Favre. But that's just my opinion.
I still don't understand Manning and Favre above him.
Manning just puts up huge numbers but doesnt win in the playoffs while Favre is sort of the same deal. both have their ring but Favre only went to one other superbowl and manning takes great teams into the playoffs and collapses, while Elway across 2 decades took teams there 5 times.
Favre and Manning both have the MVPs but how much of that is just popularity as with the pro bowls?
The Manning-Favre-Elway argument is legit. I can see both sides of that one. Manning & Favre have both had their share of postseason choke jobs, but so has Elway, to a lesser extent. But Favre's career numbers & huge amount of major NFL records are just too hard to ignore for me- and he only played one more full season than Elway did. Favre also earned each of those 3 MVPs with monster seasons. That's not popularity, that's production.
Elway was a 9-time Pro Bowler, Manning has gone to 9 and Favre had 10. That's a wash and a non-issue as far as I'm concerned.
My ranking of Manning is based on his off-the-f-ing-charts numbers, cumulative AND efficiency, 3 MVPs, SB win, and the fact that he's not even close to retirement right now- he's in his prime. Like him or not, you'd have to be stupid or ignorant not to recognize him as flat-out unreal.
But Mannings stats are the product of an unreal offense. For a decade he has had probably two of the best receivers in the game, had an outstanding slot receiver, 2 pro bowl backs, a couple of good TEs and the great line.
He's great and will be considered in the discussion for best QBs of all time but he's been in the perfect system
Montana was also a product of an unreal offense. But I don't take that away from him by slapping an asterisk on his career achievements. Then it becomes "greatest QB of all-time that played on a team that wasn't all that great because I feel they had questionable offensive talent". That's just gay.
It's Montana because it was Montana that did it. It's Manning because a guy named Peyton Manning was the one who was there doing it. I only react to what actually has happened and the QB that was...
This has clearly gone from Elway not being the greatest in your book, which is fine people have their own opinions, but it's transformed into another "Look how great the pats are with the god Brady"
I think it's enough, you're never going to know about Elway because he didn't play in an area you know, and you're not going to convince me that the model that most big armed QBs are compared to is a second class QB.
But if you want to keep throwing out your two stats as your argument go ahead
Trying to convince an Elway fan that Elway shouldn't be considered the greatest QB ever to play in the NFL is like trying to convince a jehovah's witness that there is no god. It's a waste of time. I'm just stating my opinion. But I love this debate!
And when you watch Brady crushing defenses again this season, know that that fuckin' 777Zippy asshole will be watching with a big smile on his face!
Look he's a great pocket passer, but he simply does not avoid pressure when it comes to him. That offensive line does a great job protecting him, but that's the thing, they do it for everybody. Matt Cassel comes in and plays just as good. Give any QB time , send 4 receivers and they'll have success.
Now with Brady coming back from knee surgery I'm sure he'll even less mobile. The fact is you put pressure on him, and he folds, it's simple.
you got it right this time foob. Once elway had a stong o-line, they were unstoppable. If Brady had to play behind the lines Elway had in the 80s, he'd be done by now. That said, he is still one of the best I've seen. Elway #1 though.
Don't even think for a second that Cassel is just as good as Brady. The Pats had a CAKE schedule last year, playing teams with a combined 71-105 record, including the Chiefs, 49ers, Rams, Bills, Seahawks and Raiders. And Cassel didn't exactly toss 50 TDs and go 16-0.
But fine, forget Brady. There are many other QBs I feel had better careers than Elway: Montana, Starr, Unitas, Graham, Manning, Favre, and arguably even Marino and Young. And no, I don't think Brady is #1 all-time.
Oh yes. But notice I don't put Bradshaw or Aikman ahead of Elway, even though they won more titles. Just like I wouldn't put Trent Dilfer or Roethlisberger ahead of Marino. It's all about the complete career body of work- and Elway falls just short of Montana, Starr, Unitas, Graham, Favre, Manning, Brady and quite possibly Marino and Young.
I'll bet when Bowlen yelled "This one's for John!", Terrell Davis was like, "What? Are you fucking kidding me?"
Please tell me youre not talking about Peyton Manning, with THAT offense? Ryan Leaf wouldve been great.
Favre, umm just no way.
I don't get the complete body of work, you know he led in total wins until 90 year old Favre broke the record? What optimizes career body of work more than that? I think it's fine to have Starr, Unitas all of the old time legends up there, but please no Favre, no Manning, no Brady.
Yeah right, Ryan Leaf. Manning IS that offense. With Jim Sorgi at the helm, the Colts would finish 5-11 every year. Don't embarrass yourself. Whoops, too late.
Yeah, like any decent QB couldn't have won a few super bowls with Denver in the mid-to-late 90s- with THAT offense? They were #4, #1 and #2 in the league from 1996-98. They could've stuck Bubby Brister in there and not missed a step.
But then they totally choked vs the Jags in '96. Bet that one still hurts...
Ha ha! 90-year old Favre, huh? Favre was 38 when he got his 149th career win in 2007. Guess how old your boy was when he won his 148th game? 38! Damn, you just can't catch a break can you?
Body of work for a QB means: cumulative & efficiency stats, awards, pro bowl selections, 1st-team all-pro selections, passing titles, NFL titles, MVP awards, signature moments, milestones, postseason records, regular season records, etc, etc....
Of course Elway has his share of all that. But to the unbiased, objective NFL fan who sees colors other than orange & blue, there have simply been better QB careers. Brady has already done what Elway couldn't pull off: Take 3 no-offensive-talent teams to the super bowl before age 30 and WIN them all with efficient, clutch play. Add to that a 50-TD, 16-0 season all before age 32, and he gets the nod in my book.
No offensive talent. Just gonna remind you again, the o-line is monster, something Elway never had.
I just have a hard time taking you seriously. Across the country Elway seems to make around #3 when talking about all time QBs coming from guys that have spent their entire lives watching the game. And maybe its just a coincidence, but Ive gotta say youre like the 5th pats fan that puts Elway below so many. Its been consistent which has just been making me think it's your own geographical bias
Something Elway never had?? And you call yourself a Broncos fan? Do you recall the names Gary Zimmerman, Mark Schlereth, Tom Nalen, and Tony Jones? Well, they were all Pro Bowl O-linemen for Denver from 1996-98. (during Denver's greatest run of success in franchise history- what a coincidence!)
In 1998, Denver sent THREE O-linemen to the Pro Bowl! And Elway never had an O-line... wow.
I think I just sunk another one of your battleships.
most of this conversation has been around Elway's talent deprived teams, when he did not have a line.
The biggest thing I'm saying is, when Elway got his with talented players on his side of the ball, immediate success, but even before that he had more to do with 3 superbowl appearances than any other QB.
Ah, caught ya right before I take off... I can live with that. All except Brady over Montana. But yeah, the debates are fun- sometimes they get heated, but instead of ranking them 1, 2, 3, 4, etc... I'm fine with just ranking them all as just "those elite NFL QBs". They're all in the top 1% ever to play the game.
BaughGrahamUnitasStarrTarkentonNamathStaubachBradshawGrieseFoutsMontanaElwayMarinoYoungMoonKellyAikmanFavreManningBrady. That's my #1 QB.
Even those football "experts" have their biases. Frank Deford is convinced that Unitas could've defeated Hitler's army single-handedly and John Madden thinks that Favre is close to finding a cure for cancer. Peter King also has his head up Favre's ass and Rick Reilly would pay good money to give Elway a quality rim job. I've also spent my entire life watching NFL games- just because I don't get paid to give my opinion doesn't mean it's not valid.
Don't take me seriously. I'm not intended to be taken seriously. But I think you can appreciate that I know my shit when it comes to NFL history- opinions notwithstanding.
I'm not a Pats fan at all. But I love Brady and his place in NFL history. I'm rooting for him to get #4 or even #5. And there's no geographical bias either- I'm not even in the same time zone. I am proud to be 100% bias-free!
Bias free? Come on you know you like Brady over Montana because he's your QB.
I have to admit though, usually I get the jackasses of a fanbase when I have a discussion on youtube. Still in my opinion there are about 5 QBs that are the greatest to me, each with their own qualities. and While Elway is my favorite, I dont think it's fair to put anybody as THE number one guy. Just group them as a tier instead.
Favre holds every meaningful cumulative career numbers record and kills Elway in career comp% and passer rating. 10-time pro bowler (only Unitas has that many), 3-consecutive MVPs, 269-consecutive games played and a super bowl win. Favre is Marino with better numbers, more MVPs and a ring. Manning? Please. He's on pace to shatter Favre's records and is just 31 wins shy of Elway's total. His efficiency numbers are ridiculous and the only thing keeping him from #1 is his early career chokes.
I don't think I need to. You know 'em as well as I do. Manning made 'em all. Harrison's breakout season was in 1999. Before that, Harrison never even had a 1,000-yd/10 TD season. With Manning, he never caught less than 82 balls from 1999-2006. Wayne? A perennial pro bowler with Manning, a scrub with any mediocre QB.
Just list off the offensive future Hall of Famers that Manning played with, besides Marvin. (Edge aint gonna make it).
And getting back to Brady.. Aikman, Bradshaw and Starr all won 3, 4 and 5 titles. But those QBs' teams were LOADED with talent. Starr & Bradshaw both played with 8 HOFers, and Aikman had a monster O-line, great WRs and the most productive RB in NFL history.
Brady won 3 SBs with a damn good O-line and a damn good defense (name one QB that won a title without at least one of those things). But show me the HOFers. Moss? Sure, but that was after the SB run. Brady is a stud, no 2 ways about it.
The thing is you seem to be stating that Brady is the greatest QB ever on another quarterbacks video, something that just drives me nuts and so many times it's from a Pats fan. We realize the Pats had their dynasty and all that fun, but move on (like you say with spygate, or more like just move on from the bad stuff right?)
You either didn't watch Elway play the game, or you're a hater, there's really nothing else I can see. You're just nitpicking and manipulating stats to try and make a case
Oh, I saw Elway play. I saw him as an incredible escape artist and great 2-minute QB... and I also saw him toil under Reeves' old-fashioned system where he threw 158 TDs and 157 INTs in that 10-year period. And I saw him produce 3 of the most dismal QB performances in super bowl history. But suddenly, along comes Shanahan's system and Elway becomes a winner.
The thing is, yes maybe Brady didn't have the best talent with his superbowls, but their defense kept them in the game dude. Look at the Broncos against Washington 10-0 at half, beating the skins, then the D falls apart and you know football is about momentum. When your D falls apart you have to take more risks to come back and it never works out. But whenever Elway had a chance to win, his most comeback victories ever showed his poise, he just never had a chance to be in the games because of D
Well yeah, it's a team sport. I get it. A great QB isn't much good without an O-line or a defense. But come on, I see your page and your a totally biased Broncos-Elway fan. So there you go. Of course Elway was f-ing awesome.
The negative thing with these lists is that they suggest you're totally dissing guys who you might rank lower. But we're talking about the cream of the crop here. Elway is among the top 1% of QBs ever to play. That's saying something.
Influenced, but not biased. Montana and Marino had better accuracy and Young could run better. But Elway's arm has been unmatched through history and he just had a knack for slipping out of pressure. I'd take any of them but Elway has a relationship with this city that I don't think most understand
I totally respect that relationship too. But that's the definition of bias. It's no different than the way fans in Green Bay feel about Favre or Miami fans about Marino. Elway is Denver's favorite son- and what do most fathers have towards their sons? Bias!
But at the same time, it drives me crazy because when the Patriots win, "Oh it was their defense that bailed out Brady... it was his O-line..." But when the Broncos won, "Wow, Elway did it all by himself again..."
Well, I would move on from the Pats dynasty- if I thought it was over. Don't count Brady out just yet.
I'm not manipulating shit. The stats are accurate and they don't lie.
And isn't using steroids considered cheating too? Well, I guess that pretty much includes... well, EVERY team! Bottom line- anyone who claims that Tom Brady "isn't great" or "sucks" or "is a fag" or whatever, because "he cheated!" is a fucking douchebag who doesn't know shit about football.
First of all, passer rating is the most overrated statistic ever but Elway had no line(sacks)
Second of all efficiency?
Marino 56.9
Young 64.3
Otto Graham 55.8
your boy Brady 63
Montana 63.2
So are you really saying 56.9 is terrible? Or is it just the byproduct of thousands of more attempted throws?
So stop being such a Pats homer and just be a football fan man. Look your boy Brady is one of the best QBs of today, but he plays in a great system and has had a great defense every single year.
No, passing yards is the most overrated stat ever. Considering how much emphasis fans and the media puts on it. Pop quiz: Who was the last QB to lead the NFL in passing yards that ALSO won the championship that year?
Passer rating is actually a very effective way to tell how efficient a QB is. Because of a series of major rule changes favoring the offense that began in 1977, it's easier than ever to pass the ball these days- and has been since the early 80s (see Dan Fouts & Warren Moon).
Before 1977, DBs were allowed to bump, chuck and shove WRs around. There was none of this "can't touch the WR after 5 yards"stuff. Not to mention the abuse the QBs were allowed to take.
So, yeah, Elway had great efficiency numbers... if he played from 1963-78 instead of 1983-98. Back in the day, a 77.1 QB rating and 57.4 comp% was damn good. Now? Not so much. And yes, there is a world of difference between 63.0% and 56.9%. (btw, Marino was 59.4%)
Thousands more attempted throws? Maybe. Brady needs about 3,600 more passes to match Elway's output. So we'll see. The supposedly inaccurate Favre threw 9,280 balls and still had a 61.6 comp%.
Not a Pats homer at all. I just know awesome QB talent when I see it. Brady is so much like Montana it's ridiculous. Poised, calm, clutch, confident, accurate...
Starr, Montana, Bradshaw all had pretty great defenses too. Does that diminish what they accomplished? Not in the eyes of most.
You're telling me that Elway didn't benefit from a great system with pro bowl talent when he won his titles? There is no question at all that if it wasn't for Shanahan putting those studs around Elway, he would've ended his career just like Tarkenton, Kelly and Marino: ringless.
But Elway was still the QB and he won those Super Bowls as far as I'm concerned. I don't take that away from him- so don't take it away from Brady. Plus, you know as well as I do that Brady had excrement for offensive talent when he won his titles. For every Elway fan whining about Sammy Winder or Mark Jackson, I can give you such future Hall of Famers like Antowain Smith, David Patten, David Givens and Bethel Johnson. Oh, but Brady actually WON his 3 super bowls...
Why are you even putting Brady up there? He loses the superbowl against the Panthers if they dont shank a kick out of bounds. The Eagles practically gave them a superbowl with all the turnovers and not to mention a broken TO and when they knew all the Rams defensive signals the '79 Bucs couldve beat that team.
You argue about Elway having a good D in 89? Oh yea Brady had to do so much by himself with that team. Don't even put Brady in a discussion when the entire organization is corrupt
Brady loses the super bowl? What game were you watching? Seems to me that Brady tossed a TD pass to Moss to put the Pats up 14-10 with 2:42 left and then the Pats D couldn't seal the deal. Brady did his job.
The entire organization is corrupt? Could you be a little more dramatic? They filmed the Jets defensive signals in week one of '07 and suddenly Belichick has links to organized crime and probably had JFK killed! The cheating thing is obnoxiously overblown- always by Patriot haters.
Don't try to just blow off spygate, obviously if they investigated into it there had to be something. You can't pretend like it's just some big hoax to make the Pats look bad. If you want get into conspiracies go post on a Raiders page and they'll tell you all about that tuck rule.
The problem I have with spygate is ignorant NFL fans (usually the ones who claim how much of a "fag" Brady is) that just decide for themselves that the Pats must've been cheating during the entire decade. None of these morons do any research at all on the subject and just talk out of their asses.
I never said I thought it was a hoax. Belichick was busted for illegally filming the Jets' signals. Period. Done. He got caught and fined. Let's move on.
But no, then the whole Rams super bowl thing comes out. Oh no! They cheated in SB XXXVI! You know what it was? A member of the Pats video staff 'might've' filmed the Rams' final walk-through the day before the game. Illegal? Yes. Lame? Yes. Did it give the Pats a huge advantage vs the Rams? No. Did the Pats win because of it? No.
But ignorant Pat-haters love to use this angle because it fits their argument when they run out of ideas.
And to think that the Patriots are the only team ever to use their video staff to try to gain an advantage by taping signals is just ignorant. One QB at Washington State received an award from his coaches after he stole offensive calls from the opposing sideline in a win over Cal. If it's happening at the college level, you know pro teams are doing it. What, you think your team's shit don't stink?
5 Superbowls, the mobility, the arm, the ability to drive down the field for the game winning score, second in wins. There are a lot of things to base it on, so please, be like every other Elway hater find a few moments where Elway played bad and bitch about it.
If you measure a QB's greatness simply by the amount of superbowls then you're a fool. Dan Marino never won, yet he is still one of the greatest QB's ever, meanwhile Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson have won superbowls....
Well, I'm no Elway hater but I'm not blindly putting him at #1 all-time like the Elway-worshippers. I don't consider QBs like Montana, Starr, Graham, and Brady to be greater than Elway simply because they won more titles than he did. It's a combo of titles won, stats, awards, signature moments, efficiency, clutch play, postseason success, etc... I wouldn't put Jim Plunkett ahead of Marino either. And I wouldn't put Aikman ahead of Elway. Elway was great- just not top 5 great.
You just made a case for Elway in your argument. Other than greater passing statistics he ranks higher than most QBs like that. Two titles, 5 superbowl appearances is post season success, MVP, the most 4th quarter comebacks, second most wins, one of three with over 50k in career yardage I mean come on. You keep saying you rank QBs like that and he fits all of those.I just don't get it. People always have a different top 5 with QBs, but to leave Elway out of the top five is just ridiculous.
But unlike most NFL fans and media, I'm not overwhelmed by cumulative career passing stats- especially yards. That is just a by-product of playing in the league for 16 seasons. And out of the 18 modern-era Hall of Fame QBs, only Tarkenton (18) played more full seasons than Elway. (Marino also played 16). Of course you're gonna have inflated numbers, playing that long!
But it's Elway's EFFICIENCY numbers that keep him out of my top 8.
yards-per-attempt: A wretched 7.1 career YPA for Elway. Otto Graham averaged 8.6 per pass- and that was back when the rules allowed DBs to all but rape WRs.
Completion %: Elway's 56.9% puts him right in the middle of the 60s-era passers- that's not good.
Passer Rating: 79.9. Horrible rating considering he played in the 'live ball era" of the 80s and 90s.
Yes, Elway fits my criteria for all-time greatest QBs. But so do at least 7 or 8 other guys.
Joe Montana. No explanation needed.
Otto Graham. 6 NFL seasons, 6 NFL Championship game appearances, 3 titles won. 'nuff said.
Bart Starr: 5-1 in NFL Championships, 2-0 in Super Bowls, 2 SB MVPs, 1 NFL MVP. Not great cumulative numbers, but STILL holds the NFL record for highest postseason passer rating.
The fact that John never had a SUPPORTING cast on offense... He never had a Jerry Rice or Steve Largent at WR, and he CERTAINLY didn't have an Eric Dickerson at RB until the Very End with TD... Terrell Davis that is...
Even Mel Kiper Jr. who makes a LIVING out of assescing the talent says that Elway was the greatest athlete ever!!!
Mel Kiper? Are you f-ing kidding? Kiper is a clown! Every April we hear about how smart this guy supposedly is and he predicts about 3 or 4 correct picks in the first round- yippee. My dog could do that.
Yeah, until the VERY END with T.D.- and only THEN was he able to win a SB. Shanahan is the reason Elway didn't end his career 0-3 in SBs.
Regardless of greatness or lack of greatness on his teams the point is he was a great quarterback and a great leader,you can compare him to other greats, say he is overrated,he was great to watch even though he may not be the greatest
nobody had a stronger arm than the duke. Bronco receivers used to have to catch off a machine that shot footballs at them at 60 to 70 mph to simulate John's rifle for an arm.
Elway and Eli should go to bed together..they both have something just great in common.. They think they are too good for just any NFL team after college is over. I guess getting to play football for the rest of their lives and being paid top dollar for playing it shouldn't have them on their knees begging.
Elway needs to grow up and go home. He is like the High School athlete that comes back to high school expecting the return glory days. Give me a break. Go Away Elway! He ran the Colorado Crush into the ground and now he is out to screw up the Broncos.
rgwinful 2 months ago
@rgwinful um the Colorado Crush did win title under Elway
QuartersDimesify 1 month ago
I'm going over these old vids and compairing them to The infamous TEBOW! Tebow is a work in progress but this vids and knowing that ELWAY can mentor him.Makes me think that in afew yrs DENVER is gonna be the team to beat
1EVILZ06 2 months ago
no top comment quick say something stupid!
mmmcrispychicken2012 2 months ago
fuck the naysayers elway the man
newjerseyjew 4 months ago
Im a Broncos fan and people have been calling them the Donkeys since the team formed in '60, way before Shannon and Terell. Fans even call them that. Like calling the Dolphins the Fish And the term you obviously meant for Elway is BOW- legged, not BULL legged! That will spare you any future shame if you encounter any BOW legged bulls... which you wont. Go Donkeys!
RadioChris13 4 months ago
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RadioChris13 4 months ago
Big deal. Any quarterback can throw across the field. The Broncos were pretty average until Terrel Davis came along. because Elway can't run or scramble very well. He is not a running quarterback. I remember before Shannon Sharpe and Terrel Davis, peopel were calling Denver Broncos the Donkeys, because they would have mediocre results. If you ever meet Elway, you will notice he is bull legged and cannot run.
rgwinful 4 months ago
@rgwinful you truly have no idea what your talking about
JackieChilds1 2 months ago
@rgwinful He rushed for 3500 yards you moron, the most of any NFL QB when he retired. DERP.
BartonDean1 2 months ago
Montana coulden't start today........ with that ragger muffin arm. Montana had rice,Craig,Taylor,Jones, the best oline in league history the first west coast offense ever(Best coach ever). and the best dfense in the league. Elway never had anything. He stared in 5 super bowls. All he needed was 1 other star...Terrel Davis. Then he went back to back, Retired Superbowl champion and Pro Bowler. Montana got chased out of the league like Farve.
zacharykelway 4 months ago
so... the marino thing OVER RATED!
sergiotico13 9 months ago
Montana who 81 SB with a bunch of NO NAMES....
sergiotico13 9 months ago
@sergiotico13 And who were those people who played for the Bengals that the mighty Montana beat? Oh? Can't name them? Neither can most people because that was a no name team that Montana got to play against.
filthyswit 7 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@sergiotico13 Montana coulden't start today........ with that ragger muffin arm. Montana had rice,Craig,Taylor,Jones, the best oline in league history the first west coast offense ever(Best coach ever). and the best dfense in the league. Elway never had anything. He stared in 5 super bowls. All he needed was 1 other star...Terrel Davis. Then he went back to back, Retired Superbowl champion and Pro Bowler. Montana got chased out of the league like Farve.
zacharykelway 4 months ago
@tomcardello HEY HEY HEY!!!! dont talk about Ken O'Brien like that!! just joking, im a Jets fan. but Hell yes, Montana is the undisputed greatest QB of all time
metalhead4lyfe1 11 months ago
@metalhead4lyfe1 Marino is clearly the best QB of all time, he just didn't have loaded teams like the 49ers did in the 80's.
charger619c 11 months ago
@charger619c nah
metalhead4lyfe1 11 months ago
@metalhead4lyfe1 yea alot of credibility you have as a jets fan....
redsglory805 8 months ago
@redsglory805 .....huh?
metalhead4lyfe1 8 months ago
@tomcardello I understand what your saying, but I believe that players and teams who are able to get wins in those make or break situations, even when the game plan has been thrown out the window, is what really determines greatness. Anyone can read a script and attempt to follow it, but when shit hits the fan for whatever the reason may be, Elway always seemed to know how to get the job done.
Ironeyes07 1 year ago
@tomcardello Sounds to me like your another one of those people that only care about statistical analysis. I agree that his quarterback rating was subpar at best, but take a look at how many 4th quarter combacks and game winning drives Elway had. A combined value of close to 100, more than any other quarterback. Not to mention he holds other unique records, such as most rushing touchdowns for a quarterback in superbowl history. His ability to extend a play alone merets his hall of fame induction
Ironeyes07 1 year ago
@tomcardello Dude im choosing to have weak intellect. This is meerly comments on a youtube video. Anyone that takes anybody that serious over these comments is a chode in my opinion. "I'm gonna judge people by the way they speak to me online, yay!!" Go chase yourself.
Ironeyes07 1 year ago
@tomcardello Bitch, he was on a shitty team and took them to the superbowl like five times! i'd like to see Manning, Brady, or any other quarterback pull that off.
Ironeyes07 1 year ago
GO BRONCOS!!!!
jbirdistherocks31 1 year ago
sir elway!!!
rattler314 1 year ago
If you do not understand how amazing that throw is you, don't understand how hard it is to do what he did there.
Stnick1978 1 year ago
@Stnick1978 well thats kind of the same thing lol
pats4lifebb 1 year ago
As great as Elway was i wouldn't really put him in my top 5 NFL Quarterbacks of all time, he makes my top 10 and i put him at #7(no pun intended) but he isn't great enough to make my top 5 but that's my opinion.
ultimatorsports 1 year ago
@ultimatorsports Damn son, post your top 5 because I would love to know who you rate higher then Elway.
MultiMrfalcon 1 year ago
@MultiMrfalcon
1.Johnny Untias
2.Joe Montana
3.Peyton Manning
4.Tom Brady
5.Brett Farve
so that's who i would put ahead of John Elway and don't get me wrong i love Elway but it's just my opinion.
ultimatorsports 1 year ago
@ultimatorsports I appreciate your opinion but, I will tell you where I think you are wrong. I would have Montana 1st and I would have Elway at number 4 and Brady at 5. I can not see Favre in the top 5. I see him 6 or 7. Elway led the Broncos to 5 SB's losing 3 of them. Those 3 teams were mediocre at best and would have not made the playoffs without Elway. Favre was surrounded with solid talent on both sides of the ball. His last 2 years are going to leave a scar on his record as well.
MultiMrfalcon 1 year ago
@MultiMrfalcon OK I appreciate your opinion but, I well say this Brett Farve is a sightly better QB then Elway because Farve has all the records. 295 starts, 507 career passing TDs, 71,603 career yards, 6,280 career completions, 10,138 pass attemps, 334 career INTs, also was the first QB of the Superbowl era to win 3 MVP awards(1995-1997) now i will agree that Elway was much better in the clutch then Farve and has more Superbowl rings then Favre i would still go with Farve over Elway.
ultimatorsports 1 year ago
@ultimatorsports Using your thinking then you would have to put Marino in your top 5. That is why I disagree with you leaving Elway out. Favre took two teams to SB's and won one. The guy has played for 20+ years and has gone to 2 SB's. In the meantime, Elway has gone to 5, won 2 and beat Favre. If you go by passing records then Marino has to b in your top 5. If you add him then how would you keep Elway out?
MultiMrfalcon 1 year ago
@MultiMrfalcon If you look at my channel you will see that i have Marino at #8 and i have Elway at #7 so i do think that Elway was a better Quarterback than Marino but however i still think that Farve is better than both of them.
ultimatorsports 1 year ago
@ultimatorsports I guess we will agree to disagree. The great thing is tomorrow is turkey day and football. Have a Happy Thanksgiving.
MultiMrfalcon 1 year ago
@MultiMrfalcon Thank you sir have a great thanksgiving yourself.
ultimatorsports 1 year ago
Where's the video of him throwing one of his many cross field picks, lol?
moloko5 1 year ago
...And he threw it off his back foot....WOW...
humanparadox 1 year ago
ELWAY Is #1 Montanna is a little girrlie compared to John Boy he could Run Pass and Fight if he had to,
ogopogopark 1 year ago
John Elway, 2nd best QB of all time!
btez31 1 year ago
@btez31 the 1st best of all time
higginbotham31 1 year ago
@higginbotham31 Naw, that's Joe Montana
btez31 1 year ago
are they vearsing the browns
kingdomheartsrocks09 2 years ago
@kingdomheartsrocks09 yeah when they where good
denverj82398 1 year ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
john elways my cousin hes like the best
poopoonunuinmyshoe 2 years ago
Comment removed
777zippy777 2 years ago
yeh i agree jim brown played against neanderthals and white people who ran 5 second 40 times and barry sanders played against modern athletes simply no comparison
XtremeAthleticism 2 years ago
Thankyou!! Couldn't of backed up my favoritism of Barry over Jim Brown better. Tell that to 777zippy777
wolverine22blue 2 years ago
So that's it! Bloody favoritism!
What a surprise- you're a Wolverines / Lions supporter!
777zippy777 2 years ago
Bloody?? Are you from England?? I was watching Sports Nation today and Colin Cowherd from the herd was talking about how Barry Sanders was the greatest running back in NFL history. I bet if they did a pull on ESPN that people would vote Barry as their #1 running back of all time.
wolverine22blue 2 years ago
No, it's a Python quote. Anyway...
Yeah, probably, but Barry also played in this era of 24/7 sports networks & sports talk radio. Brown didn't have that luxury. If you saw Brown on TV live you're either in your mid-50s, 60s or maybe dead.
I bet if they did a poll on ESPN about who's the greatest QB of all-time, Favre would win by a landslide. If they had a poll on MTV of who the greatest musical artist of all-time is, it would probably be Miley Cyrus. Does that make it fact? Hardly.
777zippy777 2 years ago
@wolverine22blue
Barry is the best I have ever seen for sure. No one did more with less than him...No line, No fullback, no QB, no threat of a REAL passing game until the later years when Scott mitchell had that 4,000 yeard season...
humanparadox 1 year ago
This is why I am able to remain completely unbiased in my QB rankings, as I have no favorite or home team. Unlike biased-Denver-fan you, who probably owns at least 2 pairs of Broncos boxers, a Broncos phone, a Broncos comforter and a giant Elway poster hanging over your bed.
777zippy777 2 years ago
Like I said before, I don't give specific rankings for my top five. Its not fair, they do some things better than one another. But Elway is definitely in my top five.
My Elway poster also has Mobley, Atwater, Smith, McCaffrey, and TD ;)
Care to debate RBs, WRs, or any other positions?
iamfoob 2 years ago
#1 RB all-time: Jim Brown without a doubt.
#1 WR all-time: Jerry Rice without a doubt.
Okeedokee... I think we're done here...
777zippy777 2 years ago
I disagree on the running back. Barry Sanders was the best.. He had a terrible offensive line and if he never retired early he would of crushed Peyton's record.. Jim Brown and Barry have something in common though. They're the only 2 backs in NFL history to average over 5 yards per carry.
wolverine22blue 2 years ago
The Sanders O-line thing is a myth. Sure, it wasn't the Cowboys O-line that Emmitt ran behind, but Lomas Brown went to the Pro Bowl every year from 1990-1995. And Kevin Glover was no slouch either.
Barry fans also forget that Jim Brown retired at an earlier age than Sanders did. Brown was 30 when he retired.
If Brown would've played 5 or 6 more seasons, there wouldn't have been a Payton record for Barry to break- Brown would've been up around 17,500 yds.
777zippy777 2 years ago
I'm not arguing that Brown was one of the greatest ever. I just put Brown #2 because I actually went to many of Barry's games and what he did on the field was like watching poetry in motion. Their style of running was way different. Brown was a power-back that physically abused people on the field and ran people over. Barry was the most elusive back of all time and I know you can't argue that. I just think if Barry had a better O-line nobody would touch any of his records.
wolverine22blue 2 years ago
No, I won't argue that Barry was the most elusive and that they had different running styles. I also agree that he had the most amazing running style ever. But my argument for Brown #1 is based on pure production over a short period of games played. Just my opinion.
Sure, if Barry had a better O-line who knows? But if Jim Brown had a better O-line HE may have done even better than he did- so, as usual, the "what ifs" are totally irrelevent.
777zippy777 2 years ago
777zippy777 2 years ago
What's you're source on this?? Are you sure about the 4.9 avg for the first 118 games?? All you need to know about Barry Sanders is that Rod Woodson once blew out his knee after Barry cut on a dime and juked Rod's ass. So yep...Rod was left with a blown out knee. hahah. Oh yeah and there's like a billion Jim Brown stories too which I've heard the majority of them. Both backs are unbelievable but I'm taking Barry everyday of the week.
wolverine22blue 2 years ago
neither back could pass block or receive out of the backfield worth a shit though.
madmac993 1 year ago
haha I just found out a piece of information that really makes sense. No wonder every Pats fan I talk to dislikes Elway. You guys never beat him.
ahh that's great. Now I know where all ya'll are comin from.
iamfoob 2 years ago
Actually, I'm not a Pats fan. I am a fan of Tom Brady, and great QBs and RBs in general. I never really had a favorite team- probably because I live in a state that has no NFL team.
And what part of ELWAY WAS AWESOME do you translate into "I dislike Elway". Are you having trouble deciphering the English language or what? Jeez....!
777zippy777 2 years ago
The biggest thing you can't dispute are his intangibles that make QBs great. Forget about the statistics and just break down the player. Was there any QB with a better arm than Elway? How many Qbs were more slippery and frustrating for defenses to contain? And how many QBs with the game on the line can drive down the field for nearly 50 comeback victories?
iamfoob 2 years ago
I never said Elway wasn't great-- #7 or #8 all-time. What do you think I'm saying with that? That he sucks??
I could give a rat's ass about arm strength. Jamarcus Russell has great arm strength, Jay Cutler has great arm strength- I don't see either of those guys impressing me anytime soon. You know who was REALLY slippery and frustrated the shit out of a LOT of NFL defenses? Fran Tarkenton. He's not even in my top 15. Elway was a great 2-minute drill QB, no question there.
777zippy777 2 years ago
All I'm saying is, im my opinion, Montana & Brady (and a few others) are higher up on the list of all-time greatest QBs in NFL history. Elway is top 10. I don't understand what credit Elway fans can take away from what Brady has already accomplished: Taking 3 teams to the super bowl with good-but-not-great talent but actually WINNING with them. Actually, I do understand- it's called BIAS. Denver fans think Elway is God and the debate ends there. Orange & blue BIASED!
777zippy777 2 years ago
That safety absolutely did not turn around the Giants game. The safety occurred in the 2nd quarter and Denver still held a 10-9 lead after it! Momentum is one thing but there was still more than HALF the game left to play! And yeah, when you're down 35-10 you don't stand a chance. But when your QB throws 3 picks, it makes it hard to win even a close game.
777zippy777 2 years ago
As I've said before, look at the other AFC teams during Denver's 80s super bowl seasons. Even Marino's Dolphins finished 8-8, 8-7 and 8-8 those years. One word: default. Montana had MUCH tougher opponents in the NFC. Elway played with 32 Pro Bowlers during the Reeves era and defenses that were ranked #2 ('84), #7 ('87), #1 ('89) and #3 ('91). More than enough talent for a great QB to win a super bowl.
Am I still a doofus??? Huh? Huhhh??
I am? Oh... damn it...
777zippy777 2 years ago
A hipster doofus? Yes, yes, I know Elway was great. He's in my all-time top 10. That's saying a lot. But I've crunched not only the numbers, but all the other stuff that goes into a great QB and I just can't get him much past #7 or #8 all-time.
A defensive breakdown, yes, but Elway threw just 2 TD passes and 6 INTs in those super bowls.
WHY is it that it's always "Elway took those Broncos to those super bowls but the defense blew it"?
777zippy777 2 years ago
dude he played the 1989 niners who's arguably the best nfl team ever and he lost in a fluke against williams where the CB's weren't covering shit and he played against the 1986 giants who had the best linebacker corps and not to mention phil simms nearly played a perfect game that day too!!!
johnelwayfan23 2 years ago
Yeah, I'll agree with that for the most part. The '86 Giants & '89 Niners were monster teams. Elway actually didn't have that bad a game vs the G-men, but his performances in the next two were HORR-I-BLE.
3 picks, 6.8 YPA, 36% completed and a 36.8 QB rating vs the 'Skins...
No TDs, 2 picks, 4.2 YPA, 36.5% and a ridiculous 19.4 QB rating.
I know, I know, if Elway played for the 49ers, blah, blah... To me, he's a top 10 all-time QB...
777zippy777 2 years ago
19.4 QB rating vs the 49ers that is...
Elway fans love to "what if" NFL history so much- What if Rich Karlis misses that FG? What if Byner doesn't fumble at the goal line?
No, it's always "If Elway & Montana switched teams, Elway would have like, 16 super bowl rings!"
Nope, Elway was great, but not #1-5 great.
777zippy777 2 years ago
42, 55, and 39 points
Sorry Elway looks like 6 ints accounted for 136 points against
iamfoob 2 years ago
Huh? What?
777zippy777 2 years ago
WHY is it that it's always "Elway took those Broncos to those super bowls but the defense blew it"?
That, you talked about Elway's 6 ints in the 3 superbowls as if they were the deciding factor. Giving up that many points is all on the defense. There was no realistic way for Elway to put up 50+ points with the offense he had around him
iamfoob 2 years ago
Not the absolute deciding factor- I realize that it is a team sport. But when your QB completes 14 of 38 passes, it's kind of hard for your offense to stay on the field, thus, wearing down your defense. After the game, Mark Jackson said Elway wasn't screaming at them in the huddle or during halftime and that he played better when he's yelling at his teammates. Bottom line is, Elway wilted under the pressure of the big game.
14 of 38 with 3 picks isn't the stuff of Super Bowl legends.
777zippy777 2 years ago
But how many of those attempts were because they were behind, thus a defense keys on the pass and with a limited amount of offensive weapons I'd like to see any qb have a good game with that adversity.
Elway is a superbowl legend, even if you don't particularly think so or even like it.
iamfoob 2 years ago
Elway was 2-3 in super bowls. He threw 3 TD passes and 8 INTs in those games. He completed exactly half of his passes and posted a dismal 59.3 QB rating. He threw at least one INT in all five games.
In his first SB win, he completed 12 passes for 123 yds, 0 TDs and 1 INT while T.D. basically handed him a SB ring. It wasn't until the last game of his career that Elway, on one of the best teams in NFL history, finally had a good performance in a SB that Denver won.
777zippy777 2 years ago
That's not a super bowl legend. Montana is a super bowl legend. Bradshaw is a super bowl legend. Starr, a super bowl legend.
Elway is a super bowl cling-on: a QB that only won on teams with a dominant running game that could overcome their QB's inability to produce in the passing game. The best move these QBs made was handing the ball off to an ass-pounding SB MVP running back. Elway joins Griese and Theismann in that group.
777zippy777 2 years ago
What is one of the most memorable plays of Superbowl 32? Tell me, isnt that stuff of legends?
And why do you consistently call Montana and Starr legends when you say the AFC teams were all weak during those era, yet they have formidable team hammer the teams you consider less talented yet theyre legends?
Seems like manipulating everything just so you can bring down Elway.
Still, a majority of the general populace would have Elway iin their top 3, 4 or 5 Qbs while the haters back east wont
iamfoob 2 years ago
Yes, Elway's famous run- I thought it was awesome. But I think it's funny that everyone points to that play as the supposed turning point and NFL Films showed Denver players saying how they knew they were going to win after that play. Really? Did you still feel that way after GB fumbled the ensuing kickoff, giving Denver a chance to pretty much ice the game with a 22-yard field but Elway threw an INT on the very next play? Then Favre drove for a TD to tie the game. It was all T.D. after that.
777zippy777 2 years ago
there are always overlooked moments in the superbowl, even with your Pats.
Against Carolina, if they dont kick that ball out of bounds and give the patriots a ridiculously short field to work with do you think the defense that had been playing so well against them suddenly have opened up to allow them to have Vinatieri kick the game winning FG?
iamfoob 2 years ago
Will you stop with the "if" scenarios already? You can't use "what if" scenarios in a QB debate, or I could come back with any number of "What if Karlis doesn't make that FG in O.T. against Cleveland" or "What if Byner holds onto the ball at the goal line"... it would go on and on and just be a debate about hypothetical situations.
What if Tom Brady would've been killed by a sniper at a Michigan game in 1998? Oh, well, he wouldn't really be that great of an NFL QB then I guess...
777zippy777 2 years ago
AFC teams were not weak in Starr's era because there WAS no AFC in Starr's era. The AFC was very weak in the 80s- they won just 1 super bowl during Elway's first 14 years. I already pointed out Denver's default appearances in those 3 SBs. And Montana had to battle through Parcell's Giants, Gibbs' Skins & Ditka's Bears in the 80s. No small feat. This is not manipulation- these are cold, hard football facts.
777zippy777 2 years ago
AFC played the NFC in the regular season too didnt they?
iamfoob 2 years ago
Yes, but as we all know, the regular season isn't the postseason- where the pressure is magnified 100 times and if you lose, you don't get to play again the next week. Postseason is where legends are made.
777zippy777 2 years ago
And then there's his ridiculous performance in the 49er game. 10 of 26 for 108 yds, 0 TDs and 2 picks with a 19.4 rating. Yikes! Has there ever been a worse QB performance in super bowl history?
777zippy777 2 years ago
The Dan Reeves Elway was like Fran Tarkenton: an athletic, escape-artist QB who was great but not great enough. The Shanhan Elway was like Troy Aikman: More efficient, effective and a champion but relied heavily on his monster running game & O-line.
Elway comes in right around #7 or #8 on the all-time great QBs list. Anything above #6 is OVERRATED.
777zippy777 2 years ago
Overrated to you and other statistic buffs that overlook intangibles. But there's still a reason Elway ranks near the top in every qb list, and it's not the bias that you think it is.
The arm, the scrambling ability, the comebacks, the ability to win with mediocre teams and put up the numbers he did with his only HOF teammates coming towards the latter part of his career.
iamfoob 2 years ago
Hey, as far as I'm concerned, Elway does rank near the top. Out of the thousands of QBs that have played in the NFL over the last 90 years, Elway is top 10 all-time. I'd say that's near the top.
It's not that I don't like it, it is what it is and I objectively look at it as such. When Elway retired, IMO he WAS top 5 all-time.
1. Montana
2. Starr
3. Unitas
4. Graham
5. Elway
But since then he's been passed by Manning, Brady & Favre. But that's just my opinion.
777zippy777 2 years ago
I still don't understand Manning and Favre above him.
Manning just puts up huge numbers but doesnt win in the playoffs while Favre is sort of the same deal. both have their ring but Favre only went to one other superbowl and manning takes great teams into the playoffs and collapses, while Elway across 2 decades took teams there 5 times.
Favre and Manning both have the MVPs but how much of that is just popularity as with the pro bowls?
iamfoob 2 years ago
The Manning-Favre-Elway argument is legit. I can see both sides of that one. Manning & Favre have both had their share of postseason choke jobs, but so has Elway, to a lesser extent. But Favre's career numbers & huge amount of major NFL records are just too hard to ignore for me- and he only played one more full season than Elway did. Favre also earned each of those 3 MVPs with monster seasons. That's not popularity, that's production.
777zippy777 2 years ago
Elway was a 9-time Pro Bowler, Manning has gone to 9 and Favre had 10. That's a wash and a non-issue as far as I'm concerned.
My ranking of Manning is based on his off-the-f-ing-charts numbers, cumulative AND efficiency, 3 MVPs, SB win, and the fact that he's not even close to retirement right now- he's in his prime. Like him or not, you'd have to be stupid or ignorant not to recognize him as flat-out unreal.
Just my opinion though! To sum up:
ELWAY WAS AWESOME! Just not THAT awesome.
777zippy777 2 years ago
But Mannings stats are the product of an unreal offense. For a decade he has had probably two of the best receivers in the game, had an outstanding slot receiver, 2 pro bowl backs, a couple of good TEs and the great line.
He's great and will be considered in the discussion for best QBs of all time but he's been in the perfect system
iamfoob 2 years ago
I thought pro bowls were a popularity contest... Edge and Addai just went to pro bowls based on popularity, right? You said it, not me.
Do ya ever think that Harrison & Wayne have been two of the best WRs because they happen to have one of the greatest QBs ever throwing balls to them?
Sure Manning is in a great system, but a great system doesn't work with a shitty QB or shitty players.
777zippy777 2 years ago
Montana was also a product of an unreal offense. But I don't take that away from him by slapping an asterisk on his career achievements. Then it becomes "greatest QB of all-time that played on a team that wasn't all that great because I feel they had questionable offensive talent". That's just gay.
It's Montana because it was Montana that did it. It's Manning because a guy named Peyton Manning was the one who was there doing it. I only react to what actually has happened and the QB that was...
777zippy777 2 years ago
...responsible. If Jim Sorgi was on pace to smash all of Favre's records and won 3 MVPs and a super bowl, I'd have him in my top 5 or 7.
777zippy777 2 years ago
Hello from Denver Elway is PERFECT
cesirea7 2 years ago
Lol. Of course he is, you're from Denver.
777zippy777 2 years ago
This has clearly gone from Elway not being the greatest in your book, which is fine people have their own opinions, but it's transformed into another "Look how great the pats are with the god Brady"
I think it's enough, you're never going to know about Elway because he didn't play in an area you know, and you're not going to convince me that the model that most big armed QBs are compared to is a second class QB.
But if you want to keep throwing out your two stats as your argument go ahead
iamfoob 2 years ago
Trying to convince an Elway fan that Elway shouldn't be considered the greatest QB ever to play in the NFL is like trying to convince a jehovah's witness that there is no god. It's a waste of time. I'm just stating my opinion. But I love this debate!
And when you watch Brady crushing defenses again this season, know that that fuckin' 777Zippy asshole will be watching with a big smile on his face!
777zippy777 2 years ago
and please stop comparing Brady, nobody cares.
Look he's a great pocket passer, but he simply does not avoid pressure when it comes to him. That offensive line does a great job protecting him, but that's the thing, they do it for everybody. Matt Cassel comes in and plays just as good. Give any QB time , send 4 receivers and they'll have success.
Now with Brady coming back from knee surgery I'm sure he'll even less mobile. The fact is you put pressure on him, and he folds, it's simple.
iamfoob 2 years ago
you got it right this time foob. Once elway had a stong o-line, they were unstoppable. If Brady had to play behind the lines Elway had in the 80s, he'd be done by now. That said, he is still one of the best I've seen. Elway #1 though.
bozarks 2 years ago
Don't even think for a second that Cassel is just as good as Brady. The Pats had a CAKE schedule last year, playing teams with a combined 71-105 record, including the Chiefs, 49ers, Rams, Bills, Seahawks and Raiders. And Cassel didn't exactly toss 50 TDs and go 16-0.
But fine, forget Brady. There are many other QBs I feel had better careers than Elway: Montana, Starr, Unitas, Graham, Manning, Favre, and arguably even Marino and Young. And no, I don't think Brady is #1 all-time.
777zippy777 2 years ago
Favre, Manning, Graham, and Starr? Really? Ok John Madden haha
iamfoob 2 years ago
Oh yes. But notice I don't put Bradshaw or Aikman ahead of Elway, even though they won more titles. Just like I wouldn't put Trent Dilfer or Roethlisberger ahead of Marino. It's all about the complete career body of work- and Elway falls just short of Montana, Starr, Unitas, Graham, Favre, Manning, Brady and quite possibly Marino and Young.
I'll bet when Bowlen yelled "This one's for John!", Terrell Davis was like, "What? Are you fucking kidding me?"
777zippy777 2 years ago
Please tell me youre not talking about Peyton Manning, with THAT offense? Ryan Leaf wouldve been great.
Favre, umm just no way.
I don't get the complete body of work, you know he led in total wins until 90 year old Favre broke the record? What optimizes career body of work more than that? I think it's fine to have Starr, Unitas all of the old time legends up there, but please no Favre, no Manning, no Brady.
iamfoob 2 years ago
Yeah right, Ryan Leaf. Manning IS that offense. With Jim Sorgi at the helm, the Colts would finish 5-11 every year. Don't embarrass yourself. Whoops, too late.
Yeah, like any decent QB couldn't have won a few super bowls with Denver in the mid-to-late 90s- with THAT offense? They were #4, #1 and #2 in the league from 1996-98. They could've stuck Bubby Brister in there and not missed a step.
But then they totally choked vs the Jags in '96. Bet that one still hurts...
777zippy777 2 years ago
Ha ha! 90-year old Favre, huh? Favre was 38 when he got his 149th career win in 2007. Guess how old your boy was when he won his 148th game? 38! Damn, you just can't catch a break can you?
Body of work for a QB means: cumulative & efficiency stats, awards, pro bowl selections, 1st-team all-pro selections, passing titles, NFL titles, MVP awards, signature moments, milestones, postseason records, regular season records, etc, etc....
777zippy777 2 years ago
Of course Elway has his share of all that. But to the unbiased, objective NFL fan who sees colors other than orange & blue, there have simply been better QB careers. Brady has already done what Elway couldn't pull off: Take 3 no-offensive-talent teams to the super bowl before age 30 and WIN them all with efficient, clutch play. Add to that a 50-TD, 16-0 season all before age 32, and he gets the nod in my book.
777zippy777 2 years ago
No offensive talent. Just gonna remind you again, the o-line is monster, something Elway never had.
I just have a hard time taking you seriously. Across the country Elway seems to make around #3 when talking about all time QBs coming from guys that have spent their entire lives watching the game. And maybe its just a coincidence, but Ive gotta say youre like the 5th pats fan that puts Elway below so many. Its been consistent which has just been making me think it's your own geographical bias
iamfoob 2 years ago
Something Elway never had?? And you call yourself a Broncos fan? Do you recall the names Gary Zimmerman, Mark Schlereth, Tom Nalen, and Tony Jones? Well, they were all Pro Bowl O-linemen for Denver from 1996-98. (during Denver's greatest run of success in franchise history- what a coincidence!)
In 1998, Denver sent THREE O-linemen to the Pro Bowl! And Elway never had an O-line... wow.
I think I just sunk another one of your battleships.
777zippy777 2 years ago
most of this conversation has been around Elway's talent deprived teams, when he did not have a line.
The biggest thing I'm saying is, when Elway got his with talented players on his side of the ball, immediate success, but even before that he had more to do with 3 superbowl appearances than any other QB.
iamfoob 2 years ago
Ah, caught ya right before I take off... I can live with that. All except Brady over Montana. But yeah, the debates are fun- sometimes they get heated, but instead of ranking them 1, 2, 3, 4, etc... I'm fine with just ranking them all as just "those elite NFL QBs". They're all in the top 1% ever to play the game.
BaughGrahamUnitasStarrTarkentonNamathStaubachBradshawGrieseFoutsMontanaElwayMarinoYoungMoonKellyAikmanFavreManningBrady. That's my #1 QB.
777zippy777 2 years ago
But the football world will never be satisfied with that, since we love lists. So I'm sure these debates will go on forever
iamfoob 2 years ago
Even those football "experts" have their biases. Frank Deford is convinced that Unitas could've defeated Hitler's army single-handedly and John Madden thinks that Favre is close to finding a cure for cancer. Peter King also has his head up Favre's ass and Rick Reilly would pay good money to give Elway a quality rim job. I've also spent my entire life watching NFL games- just because I don't get paid to give my opinion doesn't mean it's not valid.
777zippy777 2 years ago
Don't take me seriously. I'm not intended to be taken seriously. But I think you can appreciate that I know my shit when it comes to NFL history- opinions notwithstanding.
I'm not a Pats fan at all. But I love Brady and his place in NFL history. I'm rooting for him to get #4 or even #5. And there's no geographical bias either- I'm not even in the same time zone. I am proud to be 100% bias-free!
777zippy777 2 years ago
Bias free? Come on you know you like Brady over Montana because he's your QB.
I have to admit though, usually I get the jackasses of a fanbase when I have a discussion on youtube. Still in my opinion there are about 5 QBs that are the greatest to me, each with their own qualities. and While Elway is my favorite, I dont think it's fair to put anybody as THE number one guy. Just group them as a tier instead.
iamfoob 2 years ago
Favre holds every meaningful cumulative career numbers record and kills Elway in career comp% and passer rating. 10-time pro bowler (only Unitas has that many), 3-consecutive MVPs, 269-consecutive games played and a super bowl win. Favre is Marino with better numbers, more MVPs and a ring. Manning? Please. He's on pace to shatter Favre's records and is just 31 wins shy of Elway's total. His efficiency numbers are ridiculous and the only thing keeping him from #1 is his early career chokes.
777zippy777 2 years ago
Just list off the names of Peyton Manning's teammates for me, please.
iamfoob 2 years ago
I don't think I need to. You know 'em as well as I do. Manning made 'em all. Harrison's breakout season was in 1999. Before that, Harrison never even had a 1,000-yd/10 TD season. With Manning, he never caught less than 82 balls from 1999-2006. Wayne? A perennial pro bowler with Manning, a scrub with any mediocre QB.
Just list off the offensive future Hall of Famers that Manning played with, besides Marvin. (Edge aint gonna make it).
777zippy777 2 years ago
And getting back to Brady.. Aikman, Bradshaw and Starr all won 3, 4 and 5 titles. But those QBs' teams were LOADED with talent. Starr & Bradshaw both played with 8 HOFers, and Aikman had a monster O-line, great WRs and the most productive RB in NFL history.
Brady won 3 SBs with a damn good O-line and a damn good defense (name one QB that won a title without at least one of those things). But show me the HOFers. Moss? Sure, but that was after the SB run. Brady is a stud, no 2 ways about it.
777zippy777 2 years ago
The thing is you seem to be stating that Brady is the greatest QB ever on another quarterbacks video, something that just drives me nuts and so many times it's from a Pats fan. We realize the Pats had their dynasty and all that fun, but move on (like you say with spygate, or more like just move on from the bad stuff right?)
You either didn't watch Elway play the game, or you're a hater, there's really nothing else I can see. You're just nitpicking and manipulating stats to try and make a case
iamfoob 2 years ago
Oh, I saw Elway play. I saw him as an incredible escape artist and great 2-minute QB... and I also saw him toil under Reeves' old-fashioned system where he threw 158 TDs and 157 INTs in that 10-year period. And I saw him produce 3 of the most dismal QB performances in super bowl history. But suddenly, along comes Shanahan's system and Elway becomes a winner.
777zippy777 2 years ago
The thing is, yes maybe Brady didn't have the best talent with his superbowls, but their defense kept them in the game dude. Look at the Broncos against Washington 10-0 at half, beating the skins, then the D falls apart and you know football is about momentum. When your D falls apart you have to take more risks to come back and it never works out. But whenever Elway had a chance to win, his most comeback victories ever showed his poise, he just never had a chance to be in the games because of D
iamfoob 2 years ago
Well yeah, it's a team sport. I get it. A great QB isn't much good without an O-line or a defense. But come on, I see your page and your a totally biased Broncos-Elway fan. So there you go. Of course Elway was f-ing awesome.
The negative thing with these lists is that they suggest you're totally dissing guys who you might rank lower. But we're talking about the cream of the crop here. Elway is among the top 1% of QBs ever to play. That's saying something.
777zippy777 2 years ago
Influenced, but not biased. Montana and Marino had better accuracy and Young could run better. But Elway's arm has been unmatched through history and he just had a knack for slipping out of pressure. I'd take any of them but Elway has a relationship with this city that I don't think most understand
iamfoob 2 years ago
I totally respect that relationship too. But that's the definition of bias. It's no different than the way fans in Green Bay feel about Favre or Miami fans about Marino. Elway is Denver's favorite son- and what do most fathers have towards their sons? Bias!
777zippy777 2 years ago
But at the same time, it drives me crazy because when the Patriots win, "Oh it was their defense that bailed out Brady... it was his O-line..." But when the Broncos won, "Wow, Elway did it all by himself again..."
Well, I would move on from the Pats dynasty- if I thought it was over. Don't count Brady out just yet.
I'm not manipulating shit. The stats are accurate and they don't lie.
777zippy777 2 years ago
And isn't using steroids considered cheating too? Well, I guess that pretty much includes... well, EVERY team! Bottom line- anyone who claims that Tom Brady "isn't great" or "sucks" or "is a fag" or whatever, because "he cheated!" is a fucking douchebag who doesn't know shit about football.
777zippy777 2 years ago
First of all, passer rating is the most overrated statistic ever but Elway had no line(sacks)
Second of all efficiency?
Marino 56.9
Young 64.3
Otto Graham 55.8
your boy Brady 63
Montana 63.2
So are you really saying 56.9 is terrible? Or is it just the byproduct of thousands of more attempted throws?
So stop being such a Pats homer and just be a football fan man. Look your boy Brady is one of the best QBs of today, but he plays in a great system and has had a great defense every single year.
iamfoob 2 years ago
No, passing yards is the most overrated stat ever. Considering how much emphasis fans and the media puts on it. Pop quiz: Who was the last QB to lead the NFL in passing yards that ALSO won the championship that year?
Passer rating is actually a very effective way to tell how efficient a QB is. Because of a series of major rule changes favoring the offense that began in 1977, it's easier than ever to pass the ball these days- and has been since the early 80s (see Dan Fouts & Warren Moon).
777zippy777 2 years ago
Before 1977, DBs were allowed to bump, chuck and shove WRs around. There was none of this "can't touch the WR after 5 yards"stuff. Not to mention the abuse the QBs were allowed to take.
So, yeah, Elway had great efficiency numbers... if he played from 1963-78 instead of 1983-98. Back in the day, a 77.1 QB rating and 57.4 comp% was damn good. Now? Not so much. And yes, there is a world of difference between 63.0% and 56.9%. (btw, Marino was 59.4%)
777zippy777 2 years ago
Thousands more attempted throws? Maybe. Brady needs about 3,600 more passes to match Elway's output. So we'll see. The supposedly inaccurate Favre threw 9,280 balls and still had a 61.6 comp%.
Not a Pats homer at all. I just know awesome QB talent when I see it. Brady is so much like Montana it's ridiculous. Poised, calm, clutch, confident, accurate...
777zippy777 2 years ago
Starr, Montana, Bradshaw all had pretty great defenses too. Does that diminish what they accomplished? Not in the eyes of most.
You're telling me that Elway didn't benefit from a great system with pro bowl talent when he won his titles? There is no question at all that if it wasn't for Shanahan putting those studs around Elway, he would've ended his career just like Tarkenton, Kelly and Marino: ringless.
777zippy777 2 years ago
But Elway was still the QB and he won those Super Bowls as far as I'm concerned. I don't take that away from him- so don't take it away from Brady. Plus, you know as well as I do that Brady had excrement for offensive talent when he won his titles. For every Elway fan whining about Sammy Winder or Mark Jackson, I can give you such future Hall of Famers like Antowain Smith, David Patten, David Givens and Bethel Johnson. Oh, but Brady actually WON his 3 super bowls...
777zippy777 2 years ago
Why are you even putting Brady up there? He loses the superbowl against the Panthers if they dont shank a kick out of bounds. The Eagles practically gave them a superbowl with all the turnovers and not to mention a broken TO and when they knew all the Rams defensive signals the '79 Bucs couldve beat that team.
You argue about Elway having a good D in 89? Oh yea Brady had to do so much by himself with that team. Don't even put Brady in a discussion when the entire organization is corrupt
iamfoob 2 years ago
Brady loses the super bowl? What game were you watching? Seems to me that Brady tossed a TD pass to Moss to put the Pats up 14-10 with 2:42 left and then the Pats D couldn't seal the deal. Brady did his job.
The entire organization is corrupt? Could you be a little more dramatic? They filmed the Jets defensive signals in week one of '07 and suddenly Belichick has links to organized crime and probably had JFK killed! The cheating thing is obnoxiously overblown- always by Patriot haters.
777zippy777 2 years ago
Don't try to just blow off spygate, obviously if they investigated into it there had to be something. You can't pretend like it's just some big hoax to make the Pats look bad. If you want get into conspiracies go post on a Raiders page and they'll tell you all about that tuck rule.
iamfoob 2 years ago
The problem I have with spygate is ignorant NFL fans (usually the ones who claim how much of a "fag" Brady is) that just decide for themselves that the Pats must've been cheating during the entire decade. None of these morons do any research at all on the subject and just talk out of their asses.
I never said I thought it was a hoax. Belichick was busted for illegally filming the Jets' signals. Period. Done. He got caught and fined. Let's move on.
777zippy777 2 years ago
But no, then the whole Rams super bowl thing comes out. Oh no! They cheated in SB XXXVI! You know what it was? A member of the Pats video staff 'might've' filmed the Rams' final walk-through the day before the game. Illegal? Yes. Lame? Yes. Did it give the Pats a huge advantage vs the Rams? No. Did the Pats win because of it? No.
But ignorant Pat-haters love to use this angle because it fits their argument when they run out of ideas.
777zippy777 2 years ago
And to think that the Patriots are the only team ever to use their video staff to try to gain an advantage by taping signals is just ignorant. One QB at Washington State received an award from his coaches after he stole offensive calls from the opposing sideline in a win over Cal. If it's happening at the college level, you know pro teams are doing it. What, you think your team's shit don't stink?
777zippy777 2 years ago
Two superbowls is not the record. So what do you base this "Greatest QB ever" crap on?
voxhammer 2 years ago
5 Superbowls, the mobility, the arm, the ability to drive down the field for the game winning score, second in wins. There are a lot of things to base it on, so please, be like every other Elway hater find a few moments where Elway played bad and bitch about it.
If you measure a QB's greatness simply by the amount of superbowls then you're a fool. Dan Marino never won, yet he is still one of the greatest QB's ever, meanwhile Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson have won superbowls....
iamfoob 2 years ago
Well, I'm no Elway hater but I'm not blindly putting him at #1 all-time like the Elway-worshippers. I don't consider QBs like Montana, Starr, Graham, and Brady to be greater than Elway simply because they won more titles than he did. It's a combo of titles won, stats, awards, signature moments, efficiency, clutch play, postseason success, etc... I wouldn't put Jim Plunkett ahead of Marino either. And I wouldn't put Aikman ahead of Elway. Elway was great- just not top 5 great.
777zippy777 2 years ago
You just made a case for Elway in your argument. Other than greater passing statistics he ranks higher than most QBs like that. Two titles, 5 superbowl appearances is post season success, MVP, the most 4th quarter comebacks, second most wins, one of three with over 50k in career yardage I mean come on. You keep saying you rank QBs like that and he fits all of those.I just don't get it. People always have a different top 5 with QBs, but to leave Elway out of the top five is just ridiculous.
iamfoob 2 years ago
But unlike most NFL fans and media, I'm not overwhelmed by cumulative career passing stats- especially yards. That is just a by-product of playing in the league for 16 seasons. And out of the 18 modern-era Hall of Fame QBs, only Tarkenton (18) played more full seasons than Elway. (Marino also played 16). Of course you're gonna have inflated numbers, playing that long!
777zippy777 2 years ago
But it's Elway's EFFICIENCY numbers that keep him out of my top 8.
yards-per-attempt: A wretched 7.1 career YPA for Elway. Otto Graham averaged 8.6 per pass- and that was back when the rules allowed DBs to all but rape WRs.
Completion %: Elway's 56.9% puts him right in the middle of the 60s-era passers- that's not good.
Passer Rating: 79.9. Horrible rating considering he played in the 'live ball era" of the 80s and 90s.
Stats are more than just yards & TDs.
777zippy777 2 years ago
Yes, Elway fits my criteria for all-time greatest QBs. But so do at least 7 or 8 other guys.
Joe Montana. No explanation needed.
Otto Graham. 6 NFL seasons, 6 NFL Championship game appearances, 3 titles won. 'nuff said.
Bart Starr: 5-1 in NFL Championships, 2-0 in Super Bowls, 2 SB MVPs, 1 NFL MVP. Not great cumulative numbers, but STILL holds the NFL record for highest postseason passer rating.
Johnny Unitas: No explanation needed.
777zippy777 2 years ago
Peyton Manning: Off-the-charts stats in both cumulative AND efficiency. 1 SB MVP, 3 NFL MVPs, could wind up as the greatest ever.
Brett Favre: You want stats? Here ya go. Plus a super bowl ring and 3-consecutive MVP awards. Bring it.
Tom Brady: 3-1 in SBs, 2 SB MVPs, 1 NFL MVP, 50 TD passes, 16-0, as clutch and efficient as they come, bangs supermodels...what more do ya want?
And then you have Marino, Elway, Young all sort of blobbed together down there around 8-9-10.
777zippy777 2 years ago
The fact that John never had a SUPPORTING cast on offense... He never had a Jerry Rice or Steve Largent at WR, and he CERTAINLY didn't have an Eric Dickerson at RB until the Very End with TD... Terrell Davis that is...
Even Mel Kiper Jr. who makes a LIVING out of assescing the talent says that Elway was the greatest athlete ever!!!
elvisapresley68 2 years ago
Mel Kiper? Are you f-ing kidding? Kiper is a clown! Every April we hear about how smart this guy supposedly is and he predicts about 3 or 4 correct picks in the first round- yippee. My dog could do that.
Yeah, until the VERY END with T.D.- and only THEN was he able to win a SB. Shanahan is the reason Elway didn't end his career 0-3 in SBs.
777zippy777 2 years ago
brett favre could have done that
carter20081985 2 years ago
sorry, he can't run...
jeff1surfs 2 years ago
ha, brett favre could run like rape ape. and thrown the ball
carter20081985 2 years ago
Regardless of greatness or lack of greatness on his teams the point is he was a great quarterback and a great leader,you can compare him to other greats, say he is overrated,he was great to watch even though he may not be the greatest
hero0ftheday2004 2 years ago 2
This has been flagged as spam show
Best QB ever.
News4usall 2 years ago
nobody had a stronger arm than the duke. Bronco receivers used to have to catch off a machine that shot footballs at them at 60 to 70 mph to simulate John's rifle for an arm.
Broncos6Superbowls 2 years ago
payton is super smart but he is not john elway
monkeerench76 2 years ago
Again I have to fill sorry for people who hate Elway they just wish they had him as there QB. ask Marty (Cleveland) wow made Elway's life perfect.
cesirea7 3 years ago 2
Agreed!
atwater8991 3 years ago
LOL
lvwmiller 3 years ago
"unregistered user can only covert with..."
Screw you scammer.
Mprator 3 years ago
the drive enough said
skatergutarist77 3 years ago
im just happy nobody brought up marino..lol
BERRYMCOKINER 3 years ago
Elway and Eli should go to bed together..they both have something just great in common.. They think they are too good for just any NFL team after college is over. I guess getting to play football for the rest of their lives and being paid top dollar for playing it shouldn't have them on their knees begging.
LightsOutNukeWinter 3 years ago
quite copying and pasteing this dump comment... get a life u crybaby
sleeeeep 3 years ago
Elway was THE man.
Loved him.
George Vreeland Hill
GeorgeVreelandHill 3 years ago
Wow, this was back when football had heroes. Good times.
radix9523 3 years ago