2.7 - Chile (Commanding Heights Sample)

[stevehwan]

Pinochet was a necessary evil.

[OliverChile]

TANKS MILTON, THANK PINOCHET, WE ARE THE NUMBER ONE IN LATINAMERICA AND WE ARE A DEMOCRATY ANDA PROPERY COUNTRY!

[goPistons06]

Because the reforms were made during the dictatorship, many people here in Chile associate free market capitalism with bloody dictatorships. Many hate Pinochet, but for the wrong reasons. so let me make it clear, Pinochet was a douche-bag, the Chicago boys weren't.

[dianep123]

I found this segment highly misleading, after Pinochet and Friedman took over, things were booming for awhile... Actually Chile was a preview for what is happening to the world economy now. Those same Chicago Boys had some serious conflict of interests, they ran financial operations that stripped the real economy bare, when the enormous bubbles burst (and Pinochet fell) the government had to nationalize and bail out almost every sector. that was bankrupt.. and engage in good old Keynesiasm.

[Wraith23]

The economic boom lasted until 1982, when because of the recession that affected all of Latin America, Buchi incorporated some reforms to the free market capitalist system but I wouldnt call it "keynesian". Then the country started to grow again, at a faster rate and it continued to grow for 10 years.

[ThePeoplesPalace]

I don't doubt that Mussolini knew what fascism was - its you that i'm doubting, particularly if you think that Britain's post war mixed economy is comparable to Mussolini's Italy. If you want to be taken seriously then get some perspective.

[ThePeoplesPalace]

By your own twisted definition maybe. You say collusion, others might call it co-operation, the New Deal saved America and you know it. Collusion between big business and one party government at the expense of labour, on the other hand - that is fascism - and that is precisely what we have here.

[Wraith23]

"Collusion between big business and one party government at the expense of labour"

Actually fascism includes all 3 members of the organic society, businesses, labor and the state, hence the name corporatism (the body).

[ThePeoplesPalace]

I don't know what you learn at school in the US, or if you only listen to half of what you get taught, but whether you agree with a mixed economy or not to call it 'fascist' is just lazy tabloid politics. The New Deal saved your country's economy for a start, but creating or propping up despotic military dictatorships in the name of 'freedom' isn't fascist at all, eh? Pinochet, now there is a fascist - Thatcher's best mate by the way...

[ThePeoplesPalace]

The irony is that although Friedman and the Chicago Boys strove to remove all state interference from the economy, their ideas only worked when enforced by the military, police and state terror. Furthermore, their whole ideology has now come crashing down in a matter of months as we again look to Keynesian policies to get us out of the hole they got us into.

[billyysands]

your being simplistic, monetartism and suplly side hayek based policy was tainted by its association with pinochet and rightfully so,i rember protesting friedman, if this actually was the only way to implement these policies then it would have been better to walow in mailiase

but listen, the genrals didnt want laissez faire they had tobe convinced only out of desperation did right wing generals privatize and derulate it went agains theie statist nature.chile did benifit from these policies

[billyysands]

and prosperity leads back to democracy as i tdid in taiwan and south korea,

you british you europeans and your pathetic fetish with failed socialist policy if not for thatcher youd be as poor as albania..thats what economists were predicting for you!

[ThePeoplesPalace]

Why do Americans always hark back to Thatcher? Says more about you than it does us... Friedman's legacy is ending - so get used to it.

[billyysands]

Is it/ your 38 i'm 50.get back to me in ten years. I'll probably still be here, i'll be drunk off my ass(like i am now) but i'll be here) we'll see if it ended. capitalism experiences cycles, we are at a low point.

you explain to me how Britian could have

salvaged its beankrupt socialist economy wihtout its unpleasent but necessary dose of monetarism.

you were bankrupt.Thatcher saved Britian

[billyysands]

In 1999 Thatcher was among 18 included in Gallup's List of Widely Admired People of the 20th century, from a poll conducted of Americans. In a 2006 list compiled by New Statesman, she was voted 5th in the list of "Heroes of our time". She was also named a "Hero of Freedom" by the libertarian magazine Reason

[ThePeoplesPalace]

Two of those are American polls. I think Americans like Thatcher because she made Britain more like America. For you that may be a good thing, but for us it is not - take our word for it. And if you really believe that Britain has ever been a socialist economy then you really are missing the point. By 1990 we had all had enough of her dictatorial tendencies, and her own party got rid of her because they that if they didn't then the electorate would.

[billyysands]

in 1979 Britian had a standard of living

comprable to east germany you were a bankrupt third world nation and you were socialist 90% income tax rate state industry a health care system on par with the soviets..Thatcher wasnt perfect but now at least you have a decent market economy..i mean your screwed up social democracy the germans and the swedes managed it better the kept a market economy and put lots into socialis welfare

you know who had it right?

tony blair

[ThePeoplesPalace]

Please get real - in 1979 Britain did not have a standard of living comparable to East Germany - despite whatever nonsense you have heard we didn't have to wait 5 years for a car or live on pickled vegetables. You have obviously never been to Britain or the third world if that is what you really believe. Please get real because you are just embarrasing yourself, and who knows, maybe one day the US health care system will catch up with the Soviets!

[billyysands]

i'm going to send you video of what life was like in britian in 1979 ere you alive then? i was in holland in 1977 i listened intently to my cousins sincere rants on the inevitable collapse of american imperialism and the fall of capitalism

i visited them again in 84 they were all of of work unemployment comp exhausted

the dutch economy bankrupt

by 2006 they'd privatized their helath care system...i listend to all that socialist rubbish and i saw where it led with my own eyes

[billyysands]

i was in britian in 1984 british rail still didnt work..the tube was a mess

your better off now..and from what i understand you still have more of a welfare state than we do..

[billyysands]

he took the money generated by the market economy and put it in social services socialism destroyed Britian it turned you into a dependency of the UNITED STATES it didnt make you independent of us it weakened you so you had no choice but to be our bitch

and that would make me angry if i were

an English man

[ThePeoplesPalace]

And no, 'socialism' as you call it did not turn us into a dependency of the US. That began with WW2 as we bankrupted ourselves standing up to Fascism on our own whilst you guys were making movies and skyscrapers. And i'm not going to reply to any more of your ill informed nonsense.

[billyysands]

Socialism bankrupt Britian.I know you all admire Atlee and i'll surprise you i did idstill do his goals were noble..the welfare state and all it just doesnt work

high taxes kill incentive excesive nanny statism makes people dependent and hurts incentive stae industry was inefficent to say the least they were bloodsucking dinosaurs that kiled british competitivieness

[luisdaniel84]

Chilean dictatorship was one of the worst but their economic policies were the best, no doubt.

[billyysands]

yes you must make the distinction some dont,i am and always be totaly opposed to such brutal dictatorships, this is the way communism brutalized its people, but econmically theses policies basically made sense youcant deny it

[pansigo28]

El crecimiento económico de Chile, se debe a las políticas de Libre mercado. Impuestas por el gobierno de Augusto Pinochet, en los 70. Posteriormente en 1990, (En democracia) se mantuvo el modelo económico chileno, lo cual a permitio reducir la pobreza de un 13%.

[narcissistisk]

Pathetic with the left wing demonstraters in my country Sweden during the Cold War. No one of these people demonstrated against Soviet Union and their imperialism in Eastern Europe, and no one cared about the khmer rogues who killed millions of people in Cambodia.

[jackson32]

Nice to hear someone from Sweden come out with an anti-communist comment like that. The hypocrisy and ignorance from both the left and right is remarkable. What went on in Soviet Russia and Red China dwarfs anything that hitler did, but the silence from the media and hollywood is deafening. Notice how much of a big deal they make about Chile, yes Chile had problems too, but it looks to me that Chile made the unpardonable sin of trying to be more free market oriented.

Ron Paul 2008

[ZakkWyldeCL]

01:15

Sergio de Castro said: Generals prefered an economy agreed to the Military historical system: commands.

[jackson32]

This series is just propaganda with the goal not of promoting the free-market but of undermining it. Chiles economy moved in the direction of more economic freedom, not even close to a true free-market mind you, had the largest rise in the standard of living in South America, and the poor and middle class did benefit greatly from this, and yet we are told it was done at a high price. There's no such thing as growth without it being good for the poor and middle class.

[7buitre7]

2,400 LIVES seems to me like a very high price to pay. Economic transitions have proven to be both extremely bloody and complex as history has shown. What makes the lives of those who died in the process of change more valuable than those who are better off today? I am all for change, trust me, especially being from a country where socialism and nationalization policies are threatening to destroy the economy and divide the country. But not wiht a gun to my head.

[stealthswimmer]

agreed. Thing is though, Pinochet already had a gun to people's heads, so to speak. So if he hadn't been convinced to move into the direction of a freer market, then Chile would have nationalization policies AND a dictatorship.

[dianep123]

Not really he was a right winger and "anti-communist" any reluctance regarding lazes-faire was that it was (and still is) a discredited economic philosophy. All it really took was a charismatic charlatan like Friedman to swoop in. Trust me Friedman is very charismatic, "reasonable" and convincing! Does not come over as ideological at all, but he is an ideologue of the highest caliber. Unfortunately reality didn't play along with his economic "theories". Pity he worked for the wrong side!

[stealthswimmer]

He was "right-wing" (Pinochet) in that he was basically fascist, not wanting a free market. He wanted very much control over the economy....and put price controls during inflation which led to shortages of stuff like food. Anyways, Friedman ain't an ideologue since that implies he stood in his position only because of ideology. He used to be a Keynesian and for government control....but over time the evidence eventually changed his mind and he worked to change the minds of others after that too.

[Wraith23]

Pinochet was "right-wing" in the sense that he believed in private property, individual rights, liberty and the free market capitalism, however it was a still a military government so political liberty was restricted, but not economic liberty.

However the constitution and laws written during that period set the foundations to the modern constitutional republic that Chile is today.

[stealthswimmer]

Ah , I see. After reading into it a little more I see that you're correct. Thx.

:-)

[Wraith23]

"Pity he worked for the wrong side! "

I always thought that freedom was the right side.

[Wraith23]

"2,400 LIVES seems to? me like a very high price to pay."

2000 marxist terrorists and criminals, half of them died the first weeks of the military government fighting to perpetuate the criminal and unconstitutional regime of the marxist Salvador Allende using the same weapons they had illegaly smuggled from Cuba to start their socialist "revolution".

I'm all for peace but these socialist are a bunch of hypocrites.

[4Ninesfine]

i sorry for bad english i chilean i say friedman do very good for people though he help Pinochet

[sebaparker1]

At the end of Pinochet ADM, Chilean GDP growth was 10,6% (1989) and unemployment was 9%.

en dot wikipedia dot org/wiki/Chile#Economy

And all the successfull growth it`s and it was based on liberal monetarist economic reforms implemented in Chile under the government of President Augusto Pinochet.

[ThePeoplesPalace]

And making sure he never privatised the copper industry is a major factor in that. In fact GDP has increased at a faster rate in Chile from 1990 onwards.

[Wraith23]

The last time I check the chilean government has been struggling with 3-4% growth a year.

[sebaparker1]

Pinochet made Chile the top one latinamerican country

[GKilliansIrishRed]

The reason is that not a single leave was moved in China after his visit when it comes to political views. In Chile his entire theory was placed into practice with only 5% of the population receiving the real benefits of the economic boom: Mainly the pro-Pinochet sector, so it becomes a political issue.

[econdoc]

Ironically, no one protested Friedman when he spoke with the head of the Communist Party in China during the early 1980s. He spoke to him for over an hour and a half rather then the minimal 45 minutes spent speaking to Pinochet.

[ThePeoplesPalace]

Quite a lot of people protested against Deng Xiao Ping's free market reforms actually - in China that is.

[Wraith23]

Actually chinese people at Tienanmen were protesting for political and economic freedom and against the old and corrupted socialist state.

Thats why the death of Hu Yaobang, an advocate of free market reforms, started the protests.

[dianep123]

Uhm, Tiniaman square... You do know that all the billionaires and millionaires is or were high cadres in the communist party... a kind of capitalist nomenklatura if you will.

I don't think the protestors were against reform per se that would be some kind of inclusive third way capitalist system that benefited all just against lazes-faire that benefits the elite (the nomenklatura in communist china at that time).