It is not about the virgin birth of Jesus (as most, in fact ALL, believers I have asked to think), but is about Mary's immaculate conception in the womb of her mother!
The more I know catholicism the more surprised I am!
How interesting that the church chose to celebrate the assumption on ferragosto (Feriae Augusti), a Roman celebration of the gods and particularly Diana - and that the picture you show (and there are plenty of other examples too) shows Mary standing on a crescent whereas Diana was a goddess also associated with the moon.
@fluffymcdeath This is no coincidence. Did you know, e.g. that the Vatican stands on the same hill that the Temple of Mithras, another "saviour who died to redeem mankind", occupied? The similarities are striking, as with several other hero myths current at the time. Also Dec. 25 is the Late Roman Empire festival, "Dies Natalis Solus Invicti", lit "Day of the Birth of the Unconquered Sun". Ring any bells?
Well if you're told it's fact and never bothered to look it up, then I assume a lot of people would assume it's fact. A bit like "there's more evidence for Jesus than Julius Caesar" or "you're wrong about such and such about ancient Greece, I saw x in a documentary!" It sometimes takes a great deal of effort not to groan in people's faces sometimes.
It just so happens my eye exam is scheduled 11 hours from now. :)
Anyway, the classical example of refusing to see was Cardinal "St." Robert Bellarmine, the Ratzinger of his day. He refused to accept Galileo's heresy that the Moon was not a smooth object, as all celestial objects are (haha!). When Galileo offered him the telescope, the Santus Doctor Ecclesiae refused to look because "the matter was already settled by Aristotle." And every Catholic scholar knows that Aristotle is infallible.
Thanks for the video! Well..I have actually talked with lots of Catholics about their faith (I live in Bavaria :)). From my sample of a few dozen younger people (well, all are around 30) who are members of the Catholic church, which might be biased because most are university graduates, NOT ONE does believe in the bodily resurrection of Christ. Not one believes in hell, and all think the idea of original sin is ridiculous...I must remember to ask for their view on "the assumption"...
@Nalae1978 I went to Catholic school in the 70's and 80's, and it astounds me even now to think of how many people thought what a pile of old cods it was. There seemed two types of Catholic student. The agnostic who laughed at it all, and the religious neurotic. I almost went nuts, because I was both simultaneously :-)
@Anekantavad I went to Catholic school in the ninenies and early 2000's and you'd be hard pressed to actually find a Catholic student. For philosophy class we studied Russel and I even had a teacher that was the head of the Portuguese free masons.
@Anekantavad: Oh dear..but I think many people are going through this, as many just cannot make themselves believe, while at the same time they think that inability is a "sin" in itself. "If you do not change your hearts and become like children, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven." Its your fault...
Years ago I told a psychotherapist that I sometimes I wished I could "believe in God", feel secure..and he just looked at me and said: Your to reflective for that.
What an apt name to call it "The assumption". lol. Funnily enough I sometimes think the same about other biblical miracles "I wonder what we would have seen?" I did a video a couple of years ago (I since took it down, but might put it back up at some point) about if we had been there at the ascension of jesus and been able to video tape it.
If a virgin gave birth to God you would think she would be very special indeed and the earth Christians would have paid a lot of attention to her - written down all her stories about Jesus as a boy, a detailed account of what it was like to be impregnated with God by God, and so on. That this didn't happen is very interesting in and of itself, no?
Every time I see one of your videos, I feel like I'm sitting down for a cup of tea with a favorite uncle. I always look forward to your philosophical and intellectual musings. keep up the good work!
Maybe she already had a 'Virgin' Jumbo plane written into her Co-Op Funeral Plan. I've never been on one, but I'm sure all Virgin's flights are heavenly, aren't they?
Incidentally, I've always thought Joseph must have been a bit of a sap to believe her story of how she got pregnant. If she came out with that hokum today, she's be on the Jerry Springer Show!
Your vid put me in mind of the tv show Six Feet Under-about folks who run a funeral home. The show always started with a back story of the latest body in their care: Two idiots fill a bunch of sex dolls with helium, rather than air. The dolls float out of their truck and rise up into the sky. A lady at a near by gas station, who has poor vision, sees them. She parks her car and gets out praying that she's going up in the rapture, and walks in front of a car that mows her down. Heh heh ; )
If religious people see their faith as a philosophical metaphor, I am as religious as they come. If "religious" means taking it all literally, I am an atheist.
I'm actually neither religious nor atheist - and my pedantic way even "agnostic" doesn't work for me. "Unbeliever" is closer to it :-)
:) once catholic told me that Cult of Virgin is satanic idolatry, spiritualism and religious ignorance, and actions of Wojtyła were pure blasphemy since he forgotten that there can be only one empty grave
@74dorado Why could there only be one empty grave? Could not God resurrect any old stiff whenever he got the urge? Theologians seem totally incapable of grasping elementary logic. An all powerful god does not have to follow the story in scripture or the narrative that any church likes to tell.
Besides there are several empty graves: Lazarus, Jairus's daughter, Elijah and half the former population of Jerusalem who "awoke" when the Temple was split asunder (and then later invisibly mended).
@MartinJWillett, an all powerful god would never allow the stories in the scriptures.
besides coma doesn't count, after years these people die and are buried, and Elijah ascend into heaven alive /never die/ with alien chariot according words of his student
@tenneral Hehe, the smart fabricator of legend does not include such helpfully falsifiable details as "exactly where". I think that's probably the key to a myth surviving; shrude, disingenuous ambiguity. Unfalsifiability.
There's an excellent German film about a time traveller who filmed Jesus etc and the ressurection. And of course everybody wants to get hold of the tape . I would love to re -see this film any ideas anybody? Excellent film about greed and wanting..
I'm sorry about those who have suffered in Pakistan
Mind you I could be wrong - they might have all gone to heaven.
As to what we would see if we were present at the Assumption of Mary would, in LARGE part, depend on if she were wearing knickers at the time.
colourmegone 1 year ago
Do you know what Immaculate Conception means?
It is not about the virgin birth of Jesus (as most, in fact ALL, believers I have asked to think), but is about Mary's immaculate conception in the womb of her mother!
The more I know catholicism the more surprised I am!
barefootID 1 year ago
How interesting that the church chose to celebrate the assumption on ferragosto (Feriae Augusti), a Roman celebration of the gods and particularly Diana - and that the picture you show (and there are plenty of other examples too) shows Mary standing on a crescent whereas Diana was a goddess also associated with the moon.
fluffymcdeath 1 year ago
@fluffymcdeath This is no coincidence. Did you know, e.g. that the Vatican stands on the same hill that the Temple of Mithras, another "saviour who died to redeem mankind", occupied? The similarities are striking, as with several other hero myths current at the time. Also Dec. 25 is the Late Roman Empire festival, "Dies Natalis Solus Invicti", lit "Day of the Birth of the Unconquered Sun". Ring any bells?
colourmegone 1 year ago
@colourmegone ding ding ding
fluffymcdeath 1 year ago
Well if you're told it's fact and never bothered to look it up, then I assume a lot of people would assume it's fact. A bit like "there's more evidence for Jesus than Julius Caesar" or "you're wrong about such and such about ancient Greece, I saw x in a documentary!" It sometimes takes a great deal of effort not to groan in people's faces sometimes.
golddiggingants 1 year ago
sure beats getting consumption
OccamsView 1 year ago
You might want to look into Dan Dennets work on the subject.
THEHARMONIKZ 1 year ago
Old Spanish saying: No hay peor ciego que el que no quiere ver. Translation: There is no worse blind man than the one who does not want to see.
Puchicas9 1 year ago
It just so happens my eye exam is scheduled 11 hours from now. :)
Anyway, the classical example of refusing to see was Cardinal "St." Robert Bellarmine, the Ratzinger of his day. He refused to accept Galileo's heresy that the Moon was not a smooth object, as all celestial objects are (haha!). When Galileo offered him the telescope, the Santus Doctor Ecclesiae refused to look because "the matter was already settled by Aristotle." And every Catholic scholar knows that Aristotle is infallible.
RustyTube 1 year ago
Thumbs up
mtsac1 1 year ago
Doesn't the assumption violate a Bible rule?
Now I say this, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.1Cor 15:50
ebaltrace 1 year ago
@ebaltrace That is a great response which I have made a note of for future use : thank you!
tenneral 1 year ago
@tenneral I have enjoyed your videos.
Ebal the Atheist
ebaltrace 1 year ago
Thanks for the video! Well..I have actually talked with lots of Catholics about their faith (I live in Bavaria :)). From my sample of a few dozen younger people (well, all are around 30) who are members of the Catholic church, which might be biased because most are university graduates, NOT ONE does believe in the bodily resurrection of Christ. Not one believes in hell, and all think the idea of original sin is ridiculous...I must remember to ask for their view on "the assumption"...
Nalae1978 1 year ago
@Nalae1978 I went to Catholic school in the 70's and 80's, and it astounds me even now to think of how many people thought what a pile of old cods it was. There seemed two types of Catholic student. The agnostic who laughed at it all, and the religious neurotic. I almost went nuts, because I was both simultaneously :-)
Anekantavad 1 year ago
@Anekantavad I went to Catholic school in the ninenies and early 2000's and you'd be hard pressed to actually find a Catholic student. For philosophy class we studied Russel and I even had a teacher that was the head of the Portuguese free masons.
Nocturnalux 1 year ago
@Anekantavad: Oh dear..but I think many people are going through this, as many just cannot make themselves believe, while at the same time they think that inability is a "sin" in itself. "If you do not change your hearts and become like children, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven." Its your fault...
Years ago I told a psychotherapist that I sometimes I wished I could "believe in God", feel secure..and he just looked at me and said: Your to reflective for that.
Nalae1978 1 year ago
Wow the quality is much different and you have better glasses!
QuarkyGideon 1 year ago
What an apt name to call it "The assumption". lol. Funnily enough I sometimes think the same about other biblical miracles "I wonder what we would have seen?" I did a video a couple of years ago (I since took it down, but might put it back up at some point) about if we had been there at the ascension of jesus and been able to video tape it.
kalsolarUK 1 year ago
@kalsolarUK
Lol - "the assumption" - it's like a deliberate irony.
The 8th century guy must have been having a laugh. And not a very subtle one at that.
jazzx251 1 year ago
The assumption that the Assumption took place is assuming too much.
disrxt 1 year ago
@disrxt Personally, I think it's a liberty! :-)
Anekantavad 1 year ago
It's such a silly story. Why would anyone _want_ anyone's body in heaven? I mean, where would you put the thing? What would you DO with it?
prodigyat9 1 year ago
If a virgin gave birth to God you would think she would be very special indeed and the earth Christians would have paid a lot of attention to her - written down all her stories about Jesus as a boy, a detailed account of what it was like to be impregnated with God by God, and so on. That this didn't happen is very interesting in and of itself, no?
ozmoroid 1 year ago
@ozmoroid Apparently when you get boned by a deity there's usually a very strict NDA.
nilbud 1 year ago
Every time I see one of your videos, I feel like I'm sitting down for a cup of tea with a favorite uncle. I always look forward to your philosophical and intellectual musings. keep up the good work!
amazingbollweevil 1 year ago
Awesome video
verodefacto 1 year ago
I absolutely adore your diction Tenneral, your intonation is superb as well.
KiaOra53 1 year ago
Maybe she already had a 'Virgin' Jumbo plane written into her Co-Op Funeral Plan. I've never been on one, but I'm sure all Virgin's flights are heavenly, aren't they?
Incidentally, I've always thought Joseph must have been a bit of a sap to believe her story of how she got pregnant. If she came out with that hokum today, she's be on the Jerry Springer Show!
RobNorthampton 1 year ago
Your vid put me in mind of the tv show Six Feet Under-about folks who run a funeral home. The show always started with a back story of the latest body in their care: Two idiots fill a bunch of sex dolls with helium, rather than air. The dolls float out of their truck and rise up into the sky. A lady at a near by gas station, who has poor vision, sees them. She parks her car and gets out praying that she's going up in the rapture, and walks in front of a car that mows her down. Heh heh ; )
phenixwryter 1 year ago
If religious people see their faith as a philosophical metaphor, I am as religious as they come. If "religious" means taking it all literally, I am an atheist.
I'm actually neither religious nor atheist - and my pedantic way even "agnostic" doesn't work for me. "Unbeliever" is closer to it :-)
Keep them coming, tenneral!
Anekantavad 1 year ago
:) once catholic told me that Cult of Virgin is satanic idolatry, spiritualism and religious ignorance, and actions of Wojtyła were pure blasphemy since he forgotten that there can be only one empty grave
74dorado 1 year ago
@74dorado Why could there only be one empty grave? Could not God resurrect any old stiff whenever he got the urge? Theologians seem totally incapable of grasping elementary logic. An all powerful god does not have to follow the story in scripture or the narrative that any church likes to tell.
Besides there are several empty graves: Lazarus, Jairus's daughter, Elijah and half the former population of Jerusalem who "awoke" when the Temple was split asunder (and then later invisibly mended).
MartinJWillett 1 year ago
@MartinJWillett, an all powerful god would never allow the stories in the scriptures.
besides coma doesn't count, after years these people die and are buried, and Elijah ascend into heaven alive /never die/ with alien chariot according words of his student
74dorado 1 year ago
Some legends say that she was buried in Brittania.
Hereticbooks 1 year ago
@Hereticbooks That's interesting & I hadn't heard that legend. I wonder exactly where.
tenneral 1 year ago
@tenneral Hehe, the smart fabricator of legend does not include such helpfully falsifiable details as "exactly where". I think that's probably the key to a myth surviving; shrude, disingenuous ambiguity. Unfalsifiability.
AleximusMaximus 1 year ago
@tenneral
Glastonbury, of course....along with the legends of Joseph of Arimathea! Peace
Hereticbooks 1 year ago
There's an excellent German film about a time traveller who filmed Jesus etc and the ressurection. And of course everybody wants to get hold of the tape . I would love to re -see this film any ideas anybody? Excellent film about greed and wanting..
I'm sorry about those who have suffered in Pakistan
Mind you I could be wrong - they might have all gone to heaven.
flyingfisbeefilms 1 year ago