Debate: Does the New Arizona Law Legalize Racial Profiling?

[Shadowcompany113]

To ask for someones documents, is different than demanding documents.

[Bcatsaya13]

YOU SELFISH MOTHER FUCKERS!!!DX! WE ARE ALL THE SAME! I`M NOT MEXICAN THOUGH, BUT I`M LATINA! AND I DON`T AGREE WITH THAT FUCKING LAW!!! IT`S NOT FAIR! WHY YOU PPL THINK THAT WE LOOK LIKE AN ILLEGAL THING!! WHY YOU PPL HAVE 2 BE SO CRUEL! YOU PPL SHOULD BE ASHAMED OF YOURSELVES! I HATE ARIZONA WITH ALL MY HEART!! IT`S VERY SHOCKING HOW PPL LIKE U BE SO BAD! WHY YOU HAVE 2 BE SO PREJUDICED?! WHY?

[ManofManyPasswords]

I am from Bulgaria, let's say that the majority of illegal immigrants in the U.S. are from Bulgaria, I would not get mad at police for going after Bulgarians and asking them to provide proof of citizenship. I would understand completely that a nation has to do these things to survive and function well.

[tonyhdz985]

If the police officer or even cooper were to emigrate to another country and treated this way they would leave or sue the gov entities involved.The reality is we all belong to a race and if your race was told to always carry documents or the police has now been given the authority to search you, if they feel you are suspicious, then give you a citation,thats typical arbitrary police power in the us,its funny when we speak of profiling we dont speak of the army or fbi,just local police...Abuse

[lubime10]

The History repeat itself and was the last result of the Nazis When the Nazis came for the communists, I remained silent; I was not a communist. When they locked up the social democrats, I remained silent; I was not a social democrat. When they came for the trade unionists, I did not speak out; I was not a trade unionist. When they came for the Jews, I remained silent; I wasn't a Jew. When they came for me, there was no one left to speak out

[stevenash4life]

i agree with arizona deport them!!!!!!!

[pendletoncowboy]

I love how we now use a politically correct term of "undocumented immigrants" when we are referring to Illegal immigrants! Maybe we should follow the lead of other countries (mexico) when dealing with Illegals!!

[CosmoNow]

@pendletoncowboy So by that argument, you think Mexico's goverment is on the inmigrants side?, Mexico's goberments is full of wealthy people that do not give a rat ass about this poor people. Again, republic politics are cowards, always after the weak one,. go against the corporations! the people that hire inmigrants, most of them are in the republic party i can guaranteed that

[arsantiqua]

I just can't believe we are going back to witch hunt again, "hey you look like a witch" therefore you burn!! or how about he is a commie, he must be a commie look at him sure he is one, there is a reasonable suspicion he is wearing red, oh no he's chinese, how about the cuban "oohh we got to make sure he shows them papers" criminals they just want to work! One thought! what the federal government its going to do against the companies responsible for the oil spilled in the gulf? criminals

[theunknowncove]

Ummmmm. Is this Mexican retarded??? His arguments are like that of an 8 year old. He keeps diverting the conversation away from fact, and playing the race card over and over and over. Such immaturity.

[arsantiqua]

@theunknowncove how do you know he is Mexican? in your maturity explain to me,

i forgot you had a reasonalbe suspicion to judge he is mexican!! how about south american, it could be central american right? i know he is a mexican from guatemala! unbelievable i thought i only read this things on history books, what a sad day it is!

[Chinoandharykrakhead]

Wonder how many questions they ask Canadians and such.

[glendaweil]

These officers have been trained and it is not difficult to enforce it is a fair law and there is no racial profiling, and I know you do ot understand because you are an idiot.

Bottom line you break the law you could get arrested.

[buckinray18]

Miguel seriously argued that an undocumented wouldn't call the police b/c of a next door fire b/c he doesn't want STATE police on HIS lawn???

That just speaks LEVELS on the low morality of the undocumented and their reps. They're telling us to be compassionate and "do the right thing" and accept them, but they won't do the right thing when they see a crime or a fire??? HYPOCRISY!!!!

[elpenaroll]

@buckinray18 would you call the cops if u would have the inllegal inmigrants

[buckinray18]

@elpenaroll

Okay, let's see if I can decipher your question in correct English.

"Would you (I) call the cops of you (I) had illegal immigrants?"

First of all, the question doesn't make any sense, but if you mean by me owning a business and finding out that I had illegals, would I report them? Yes, I would, but they wouldn't work for me in the first place, seeing as I'd only hire LEGAL CITIZENS.

[ryuzaki13131]

This law is soooooooooo stupid it's funny. hahahaha

[Maverickteen100]

i agree with the spanish dude your seriously asking for a lot of trust to ask an immigrant to dial 911 to report a crime!!!

[TheMelofan15]

Lol these guys look like brothers hahah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Plus Miguel u sound like a dumb ass haha thats all you have to do is call 911 you dont have to give them ur info... but i dont support this!

[BeantownJim]

No debate! Get the heck out!

[corsoelectric]

Miguel go live in California then !!! that liberal fagot infested state. you are an ass, I'm ashame of you. I'm a Cuban American and i do support the law !! Speak for your self, don't speak for us !!!

[corsoelectric]

That Miguel Perez is a piece of shit. I'm a Cuban American and i support that law. Miguel fuck off.

[AceofDimonds0]

Does the New Arizona Law Legalize Racial Profiling?

long answer: the law authorities of the state of arizona have the right to detain anyone they suspect to be an illegal immigrant, as long as they do not have any form of identification.

short answer: yes, yes it does.

[shonenwarrior9550]

STFU Miguel

[JCVDFan1]

Since I am a legal Hispanic here, will I be searched once or for the rest of my life?

[leeason1]

@JCVDFan1 Never.

[Trikkerman3]

mexicans are not a race.

[ZomShop]

tis a sad day in American history.

[TheArmy19D]

@ZomShop I think it is a sad day for criminals. People are only mad because they know this law will work.

[SystemControlTower]

I think its safe to say that this round, Miguel Perez has this debate in the bag. Arizona should have sent a more aggressive representative. :D

[tkca25]

Let's be serious.If a thousand Americans showed up at the Capitol of any Country and demanded equal rights and citizenship, we would all be in jail-never to be heard from again How any of these people can come to the USA illegally and make demands that we bow down and honor their demands is outrageous.How many illegals that have been living here pretty much free of charge are going to jump in line to pay a fine and forced to pay taxes like the rest of us?We welcome you legally-otherwise see ya!

[PoliticalSkeptic]

@tkca25 I'm definitely on your side on that one. But that is assuming that every single one of those people are actually Illegal. The only problem i have is with the law in regards for people who are already Americans who may not agree with any of the things the pro illegal immigration people have pushed may get treated like they are illegal based on an appearance and boy if they don't have all of their papers on them.

[tkca25]

@PoliticalSkeptic It is my understanding that, in protest, there will be many Arizona citizens that will do just that - not carry papers - just to get arrested. I truly don't know what the big deal is. I carry some form of ID the instant I step out of my door. My car was impounded because I was driving without a Driver's License - regardless of the fact that I was in route to the Police Station to report my DL stolen - and I have blond hair and blue eyes!!

[iLoseTechnology]

@tkca25 @tkca25 but many illegal immigrants pay taxes and the state profits from immigrant labor, INCLUDING illegal immigrant labor. To say what you said is to regard an illegal immigrant as nothing more than a blow to the economy (which is completely untrue).

And please, can you not use the term "illegals"? It's derogatory.

[tkca25]

@iLoseTechnology They are illegal!!!! What part of illegal immigration is derogatory? I have nothing against immigrants, I just want them to come through the front door. Don't you want these people to have the same rights instead of being at the mercy of drug lords, drop houses, kidnappings, abandoned and left to die in some location where many are never found? Many don't pay taxes and send billions out of the US instead of paying taxes. At least, put a fee on their money transfers.

[ocguyiscool]

im a mexican american and Im sick and tired of illegal immigrants coming here to california and taking jobs fucking everthing up for people like me trying to make it here when there not even allowed to be here.

[borderraven]

@ocguyiscool, could you do me a favor? Please stop using "illegal immigrants."

An alien present in the USA with permission, and obeying the laws is a legal alien or legal immigrant, but s/he becomes an illegal alien when s/he is an alien who broke the laws. Call them "illegal aliens" Thanks

[HilarityBribo]

Racebaiters out in full force

[KaosTwilightFan24]

This law does NOT mean that people are going to be racially profiled! come on people if you don't have anything to hide and you have proof of being a citizen why not show it?!?! i've been asked at a BP stop and was GLAD to be asked if i was a citizen! get real people and READ the bill!

[PoliticalSkeptic]

@KaosTwilightFan24 I read the bill. Do you want some quotes?

From Section 2 (E)

Gives police officers authority to conduct warrantless arrests of persons for whom the officer has

probable cause to believe have committed any public offense that makes those persons deportable."

you want more? It leaves an open invitation for racial profiling. It doesnt demand it. But look at that section i posted.

[KaosTwilightFan24]

@PoliticalSkeptic What the warrantless arrests mean is that a police officer does not have to wake up a judge at 3 in the morning to sign a warrant just to arrest a person they believe to be in the country illegally. Arresting someone and charging them with a crime are two totally different things.

[PoliticalSkeptic]

@KaosTwilightFan24 You are 1/2 correct. But you are leaving out something. It says "probable cause to BELIEVE they have committed.

What is probable cause to believe someone is an illegal Alien?

[disturbedone5009]

AFTER they are already stopped for another crime.

[PoliticalSkeptic]

@disturbedone5009 IT does not say that in the bill at all. IT does not say that they must be stopped already for another crime. Read the portions i posted above. I also welcome you to read the bill online and post on here any portion that says that they can only do this after they have already stopped someone.

[PoliticalSkeptic]

@KaosTwilightFan24 From Section 2 (B)

Requires police officers to make a reasonable attempt to determine the immigration status of a person

whenever there is reasonable suspicion that the person is person is unlawfully present and verify that

status with the federal government, except to the extent that it would hinder an ongoing investigation."

[PoliticalSkeptic]

@KaosTwilightFan24 So explain to me how to enforce those two sections with out racially profiling? Then remember yes there are some really good officers out there who don't do this. But the laws are here to protect people from the BAD people in government because if everyone was good we wouldn't need these laws to keep authority in check.

[PoliticalSkeptic]

@KaosTwilightFan24

From Section 2 (I)

Indemnifies police officers against costs and attorneys fees incurred in connection with any litigation

brought by citizens and residents who were wrongfully detained, questioned, arrested, or transported,

unless the officer was acting in bad faith."

So if someone is legal how can you prove that the offiicer was acting in Bad Faith when looking at what they are allowed to do?

[KaosTwilightFan24]

this bill has parts that was taken from the FEDERAL LAW! if they want to fight against this bill than why haven't they fought against the federal law? answer me that! they haven't fought against it cause the federal government hasn't inforced it! stop crying about it. you want to be in this state or in this country than do it THE RIGHT WAY! like ALL the other people who are STILL in their own countries going through the process to become citizens!

[KaosTwilightFan24]

i live in arizona and i am part hispanic. i am for this immegration bill. the federal government isn't doing their job so we decided to take matters into our own hands. just because arizona has a majority of people who are of mexican origin or hispanic they think that the bill is targeting just them, but their is many other types of illegal aliens.

[borderraven]

In approving a state trooper's arrest of persons who appeared to be illegal aliens, the United States Court of Appeals for the Tenth Circuit held, simply, as follows: "A state trooper has general investigative authority to inquire into possible immigration violations." See United States v. Salinas-Calderon, 728 F.2d 1298, 1301, n. 3 (10th Cir. 1984).

[borderraven]

A law enforcement officer confronting an alien who is unable to produce documentation arguably has probable cause to believe that a violation of 8 U.S.C. § 1304(e) (failure to possess documents or 8 U.S.C. § 1325(a) (entry without inspection) has occurred. (If the alien is undocumented and has been in the United States for longer than 30 days, he or she has also violated 8 U.S.C. § 1306(a)).

[PoliticalSkeptic]

@borderraven  This portion of the federal law is in the context of the Border patrol ICE. There circumstances are totally different from someone who is looking at people in the middle of the state who are far away from the border.

[Chiva2699]

@borderraven oh really? so im born here in the U.S. (unfortionately) so, i don't take my passport on a walk to buy milk, and i'm dressed in a sweaty worn out shirt and jeans after a street soccer game, and i talk t my latino friend ins panish, i can be detained?????? You tell me, since you tend to think you know the laws, where in the U.S. constitution or any other law it says that this is constitutional. thumbs up if you know this law's about racism

[borderraven]

@Chiva2699, in your scenario you won't have a problem, unless you J-walk.

>COTUS Article 4 Section 4: "Every state in the union, is responsible to every state in the union, for securing our union against INVASION."

>COTUS Article 1 Section 10 Clause 1 "Every state in the union may, without consent of Congress, engage in war, if invaded."

>COTUS Article 6, w/ Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo Art 5, allows TX,NM,AZ, & CA fortify border w/ Mexico.

>32CFR215.4 Allows suspension of Posse Comitatus Act.

[pharmerwrok]

@Chiva2699 FUCK YOU ASSHOLE! "so i'm born here in the US (unfortunately)" America is the greatest country in the world. Yes we have problems but we ARE better than any other country in the world. Don't beleive me? Go to those other countries. The United States shouldn't be littered with assholes like you. Go somewhere else! And as long as you carry your ID, like a photo id or a driver licence you'll be fine! and they won't just arrest you. although in your case it wouldn't be a bad idea.

[iLoseTechnology]

@pharmerwrok your extreme patriotism is a serious problem to society. I understand that you love your country but to regard it as better than the rest? All nations have problems and the United States is no exception. There's no need to put down anyone else. Perhaps you need to visit other countries. Try Denmark. Free healthcare (and higher education and a bunch of other things)!

[pharmerwrok]

@iLoseTechnology yes i know we have problems we are all people and we all have problems. but i have traveled to every continent except austrailia (through buisness, vacation, etc) and i am being truly honest when i say America is one of the best. one thing i do envy about all Europe is their education. almost every citizen there know at least 2 languages, and is INCREDIBLY well- educated. and most of Europe is VERY BEAUTIFUL. oh and my anger was created because chiva2699 insulted the US.

[pharmerwrok]

@iLoseTechnology (sorry about the second post) and i have talked to people in other countries about their form of healthcare. most of them don't mind it... but one thing i heard time and again was "just don't get an emergency or need something immediately cause you most likely won't get it" i email a couple people from around the world and i've talked to others, most of them say it. I'm not saying this is the absolute mindset but from what i've heard it seems like that's what they beleive

[diegoec1987]

@pharmerwrok for comments like this other countries see us as the devil . U can not say Our country is better than theirs . Thats why we have problems with other countries , and then we ask ourselves why terrorist do what they are doing

[jairzinhoguido83]

im a ilegal resident in the us,my personal opinion is that is your country are your rules,i have to respect all the law,i have been pulled over 4 times and the police is veri profesional,i love this country,im no angry with usa,im angry with mexico,because mexico is the responsable that million of people must to be here to survive.than you america,you give me good job and education for free

[PoliticalSkeptic]

@jairzinhoguido83

It doesnt matter what you think. Usa has rules but we have people who are violating these rules because they want the jobs we have here. We can yell across the rooftops that they shouldn't break the rules but they will continue to break the rules as long as the Jobs are available. We have to criminalize the people who are providing these jobs in order for it to stop. This law which will get overturned wouldn't do shit to change anything anyway.

[lanesuzza]

This bill will likely make it all the way to the SCOTUS. Good Luck Arizona. Bravo for taking a stand against illegal immigration and standing up for the rule of law.

[Govhater2]

Shoot first, ask questions later!! These third world shit stains are invading our country.. They must be stopped!! Where is our military?? Oh ya, they're busy fighting illegal corporate wars at the moment.. ;(

Damn, that sucks..

I guess the American people are going to have to take things into their own hands....

[tickyul]

Bravo Arizona, an attempt to stop the downfall of the country, and their state. I hate to say it, but, this immigration law will be shot down very quickly, it will not see the light of day. The 9th Circuit Court Of Appeals is one of the most liberal courts in the nation, they are the federal court of appeals for ALL of Arizona, you know what that means. We have become a do nothing country, even if we try to get something done....some rat lawyer/judge/politician shoots it down.

[PoliticalSkeptic]

@tickyul Liberal or not. If it violates the law then it violates the law. People can not have it both ways. Screaming for the constitution and the fabric of our country one minute. And willing to trade liberty for security the next minute. Notice they are playing a diversion game. If they were serious they would be shutting companies and arresting anyone who hires an illegal alien. I just heard a saying in reference to this. You can't work on the plumbing when the water is still on.

[tickyul]

@PoliticalSkeptic Well, when they shoot this down I will have to read the ruling to decide if it is just or not. I think that a truly comprhensive approach to reform will never happen. We will have another amnesty with promises of reform to follow, then those reforms will fall by the wayside, then another amnesty. I just see this country as failing/ungovernable, nothing important can every get accomplished, it is all about staying in power and establishing ideology.

[charlesvan13]

I don't think there are many Spanish illegals.

Most are from south of the border.

[borderraven]

Isn't "Racial Profiling" Political Correctness? Racial Profiling directly relates to appearance, but appearance inversely relates to probable cause, which directly relates to behavior. Illegal immigration is a behavior that creates probable cause, that attracts law enforcement. See "Terry Stop." Read Article 1 Section 10. Read Article 4 Section 4. See scribddotcom/doc/30091305/Who-­is-Responsible-for-Securing-th­e-State-Border-and-Arresting-1­2-Million-Illegals.

[PoliticalSkeptic]

@borderraven

you worte:

"Racial Profiling directly relates to appearance, but appearance inversely relates to probable cause, which directly relates to behavior" be more specific about "appearance" relating to probable cause.

and could you be more specific how your "appearance in itself is a behavior"?

[borderraven]

@PoliticalSkeptic, what don't you understand? Try seeing it this way: "Racial Profiling = appearance. Appearance (not =) probable cause. Probable cause = behavior."

[PoliticalSkeptic]

@borderraven

Okay how can someone BEHAVE like an illegal immigrant. Can a Black person or a White person behave the same way? Can an immigrant who is not illegal behave like someone who IS illegal?