Chomsky - Perle Debate - Part 17

[bodie9991]

Perle frames his rebuttal in a way that invites you to emote (and not to think) and tempts you to feel that Chompsky's argument is a personal attack on Americans. I think the powerful imbibe this emotive thought process in their mother's milk, so to speak, and do genuinely get through public and private life using it. It's no good using rational evidence based argument in a career in public service because in general the public don't use it either.

[nblumer]

It's interesting that Perle is making the argument that US foreign policy is generally for the good and we should have more faith in the elite of this country -afterall they are just like you and me. Yet when he demonises his enemies he affords no such sentiment.

[lclarsen]

PERLE:

"If you believe that we are organized principly to serve the selfish interests of a few..."

Does any serious social critic have a different view of any major world power thorughout history?

If this video had been widely watched Richard Perle would've spent the last 22 years in telemarketing or homelessness rather than "public service."

[lclarsen]

PERLE: " "I've listened at much greater length then i would have ever desired to a view of the world that I've never seen in my years in govt, in which a small number of men foolishly, in order to enrich themselves, are prepared to inflict suffering and cruelty around the world..."

He's worked hard not to ever have seen such a world.

[Donkolopis]

and boom goes the dynamite

[brandnutopian]

Holy crap! Perle's rebuttal amounts to a withered plea for popular sentiment to buoy his rather flaccid argument. I bet he never even so much as entered the same room as Chomsky again for fear he'd crap his pants.

[mistermoen]

That sucked. What a shitty rebuttal.

[fanniterrette]

The accusation that Perle makes in his grotesquely solemn voice that Chomsky had attacked "the American people" is one of the most common tactics at Fox News. "Why do you hate America?," Mr. Hannity once asked Michael Moore. It's another example of the brain-dead propagandizing so common to Right Wingers like Pearl. If you have no defense, just make your opponent sound like he or she "hates Americans" or "hates America." That'll get the herd on your side.

[hrmIwonder]

Perle didn't defend a single statement he made, well he didn't really make any statements. All he did was deny, deny, deny. He didn't offer anything of substance. None.

[TBlake34]

I do enjoy the subltle little shift from Chomsky's comdemnation of powered interests--->Perle claiming Chomsky was making those statements about "The American People."

What a sleezebag.

[ashkank2002]

Perle has confused a academic debate with a political rally. During the whole debate he did not relied on a single fact and was 100% rhetorical and, in the end, he invited everyone else to follow his example in making baseless statements, and that is how the neo-conservatives have ended up with the "fully patriotic" Fox News.

[stevieRay3211]

Could never figure out why guys like Perle make government policies and guys like Chomski end up teaching in universities.

[TBlake34]

Ask yourself which guy works in the interest of the people with most of the money and the answer becomes a little more understandible, if still offensive.

[smujismuj]

Control freaks [Perle] seek power...historians [Chomsky] point that out.

[waterview3]

Justice would be Perle sitting and listening to a looped tape of the first six sentences, in leg shackles, in an orange jumper, in a concrete room, for the remainder of his natural life.

The audacity of his Straussian lies.

[SecretTrollAccount1]

Dont worry international justice has always been collectivised, you get to sit through the fallout of it all like everyone has done.

[stuarthand]

It seems suprising that as a self claimed intellicular Perle places so little value on 'documents.'

[abrakkadabra]

this debate ended the moment perle stupidly agreed to be owned by gigantic mind of mr. chomsky...mr chomsky thank you sir...i was waiting to see this moment...next time if there is one...perle should bring all his neocon buddies... chomsky can take can on them while reading a book, brushing his teeth, playing piano and having a light snack in the same time...

[gjsterp]

The sad thing about intellectual people like Perle is they believe what they say. Assuming Perle is sincere, we can only assume he has fallen for the propaganda machine, but if you check wikipedia, you will find he belongs to the propaganda machine - big media chairman.

So, he must be lying.

[brucel1234]

haha

[ARTAUDIOJOTA]

Of course he is lying, he took a few pages from the pope. Anyone who has suffered cathloc schools recognizes his tone and rhetoric.

[SecretTrollAccount1]

thats called forward thinking. Chumponski's is mearly a historian whos not much use in a current event think on your feet kinda situation.

If I was gonna be mutated with a creature id want it to be a whale. Whales are intelligent.

[Dalambam]

Regarding the video debate, could you elaborate a bit on the points where you disagree with Chomsky?

Cos your comments so far have been.. um.. just bizarre. Perle supporters seem to have a hard time, lol.

[8Marx8]

There are two Americas:

1.The Empire, fostered by the corporate elite ruling sector, bolstered by the media,contains apathetic citizens, nourishes on the blood of peasants of third world countries, consecrates affluence and disposed to wipe off nations to achieve their ambitions.Pearl and culprits alike lead this category.

2.Astute candid cognizant citizens who extricate themselves from the propaganda model,place values before profits and people above interests.Chomsky ostensibly belongs here.

[SecretTrollAccount1]

3.The I Liek Turtles catagory, which is filled with people who choose not to listen to men in catagory 1 or 2 as all they do is talk and pretend they have acutally changed anothers perspective. The I leik Turtules team have a winning formula of cheaply grown breakfast cereal diets and lots of exercise chasing around sand boxes for funny little men in sheets with cushions on thier heads. who really dont exist but non the less its good excersise.

[ben7891011]

perle is a fool. capitalism and democracy have one important thing in common. The freedom of self determination. Why then do all the countries america has helped bring democracy to rig elections have more foreign military(us) in them then domestic milit. Why have nearly all 3rd world countrieswho recieved "aid"(bombed to stone age) to become developed capitalists also become totalitarian. Anybody familiar with basic communication skills could debate Perle. Even Perle can win against Perle.

[dojinho]

Mr. Perle is essentially asking people in the audience: "Is the propaganda machine doing a good job or not?" Once again, his statements carry no information. We expect him to talk like that, with the same old rhetoric about how altruistic government planners really have been all along. No facts but a lot of faith. It is more important to him the "impression" that people get of the government than its actions...

[ARTAUDIOJOTA]

He is an old pope

[DisidenciaTricolor]

This debate ended in part 4 or 5. This is an advisor for Bush no wonder.

[efabri]

So Perle's summation of a defense is "No We're not.. No no no... not true"

way to go - my 11 year old sister does that.

[Zoidborg1]

Perle should have prepared for this

[ARTAUDIOJOTA]

He was prepared :-)

[icedoutstreetgangsta]

It is hard to imagine someone presenting themselves as more of a blind, obtuse and ignorant propagandist than Perle does here.

[quabot]

What's funny is that the people who really do believe in terrorizing the rest of the world for political gain are the Democrats. Case in point: the bombing of Kosovo.

[3OleMissBoi3]

What political gain did the Democrats get from bombing Kosovo? The bombing was to halt a genocide, and if anything caused political harm because it was viewed as America acting world police or worse as Clinton trying to distract the country from his infidelities.

[quabot]

The carpet bombing of Yugoslavia, at the expense of the military training budget, since Congress had not approved such a huge expenditure, had nothing to do with Monica. And if you are worried about genocide, then I take it you support a massive troop presence in Iraq. Or we could pull a Clinton and carpet bomb Iran for support the Shi'ites, and Saudi Arabia for supporting the Sunnis. Fortunately, even Bush isn't that extreme.

[quabot]

The political Gain that Clinton received is that to this day, he is heralded as a hero in the Balkans, (by the Bosniacs and Albanians) even though his bravado spending caused an all-time low in funds for training, thus promotions, thus pay, thus career viability for good personnel, thus retention and readiness, which factors caused the terrorists to consider our post-Clinton security situation a grape ripe for the stomping. Oh but our Economy was looking good, right? (albeit set up for a fall)

[PrincipiisObsta13]

Funny that Chomsky frames the Democrats and Republicans in the same light, '' America is a one party system, the Republicans and the Democrats are two different factions of that party''. So what's your point?

[quabot]

Point? that while Perle is speaking from his 7th chakra, Chomsky is speaking from his 4th point of contact.

[PrincipiisObsta13]

Spare me the Eastern Medicine and military jargon will you, I'd say Perle's ideas come from section IX of Machiavelli's The Prince, with Perle's thinking deriving from the noble's viewpoint's.

[quabot]

Spare me the literary pomp

[PrincipiisObsta13]

Perle brought up Machiavelli during his opening talk, so I thought I'd just point out what kind of morals Mr. Perle follows, by admission of himself, by way of his romantic view of the man. Literary pomp? By pomp do you insinuate I'm trying to act above, or to act clever? I hardly think your talk of Chakra's was anything different. When did it become a character flaw to try and be clever anyway?

[quabot]

You tell me

[PrincipiisObsta13]

Why should I tell you?

[quabot]

OK, for you clever is cool, but not for me.

Do you see the "Spare me" comments?

[PrincipiisObsta13]

For me clever is cool? What do you mean by cool??? Yes I see the ''Spare me'' comments, why? What's cool got to do with anything?

[quabot]

Thanks for the word games... it's been fun.

Ciao

[PrincipiisObsta13]

word games?

[quabot]

it's no use... our comments are being removed anyway...

[PrincipiisObsta13]

I've not noticed any removed.

[kubikmaster]

to go back to greek bassics, Perle appealed to the ethos of the people (if you believe in the values of the country, so and so wa wa), Chomsky instead apealed to reason, Logos.

Ethos gives big paycheck, Logos gives you work in accademia (if ya'r lucky)

[James2010May]

@kubikmaster Yeah, America right or wrong. I'll take it when it's right and fix it when it's wrong, not just following along in a stupor.

[Webins]

Ubelievable!

Nearly 130 minutes, and Perle almost never actually presented facts or answered those of Prof.Chomsky.

All he did, and what he did at his closing talk, was basically say in so many words "What Chomsky said was bad, so don't believe it!".

[gotgatGIT54]

Yes, all he said was 'Don't let Professor Chomsky wreck your peace of mind and sanity. Look around you. Trust the bubble in which you live. We are the good guys. Ignore the documents - ha ha - and the facts, the record, and first-hand reports if they damage that rosy picture. Bad Professor Chomsky! Cynic! Doesn't even work in government! How can you trust him?'

[gotgatGIT54]

'...never actually presented facts'. Damned right. Not one of iota of information could I glean from his speechifying. Whereas Prof C was an education, a seminar, as you would expect from such a respected scholar in spheres other than foreign affairs.

[fruglescot]

YES, MR. PEARL,

It's a deeply cynical view of the world but unfortunately an accurate view backed up with

a Rocky mountain of documentation and rivers of innocent blood.

[vicnameless]

Perle you lost. Hang your head in shame.

[overmind25]

Oh Perle, you almost made me laugh and I would have if what you stated wasn't such a psychopathic lie. Keep apologizing for CIA coups in Iran, Guatemala, and Chile, keep apologizing for the funding of terrorists in Nicaragua and Laos, and keep using unarticulated rhetoric as the foundation of your argument(s).