I am thankful someone had the faith to respond to his video. It made me sick, too, especially to see so many people get sucked into the appealing face of it all. I am only a teen yet and still have a lot to learn, but I think it's clear that emotions are a big problem here. The Bible speaks of people following teachers that "say what their itching ears want to hear" (2 Tim 4:3, NIV). Our sinful nature welcomes what sounds wise and appealing, leaving the cross to seem like "foolishness" to us.
Hey, I just wanted to say that I really appreciated this video. It's easy to start bashing "religion," it's not nearly as easy to see your own sin and shortcomings. I think I love Jesus MORE when I see the Church as His bride, when I see that He loves US as well as me. Because like the Bible says so many times, the law is there to show us our sin and then point us to Christ, it's not something to resent or try to get away from.
We obey Jesus because we WANT to as a response to His saving grace!
now i am only 13yrs old but Jesus has radically changed my life and i don't think he did any harm in the first video nor did you except maybe you were a little too critical, both opened peoples mind and gave a different perspective which in some ways was beneficial and some ways not.
and what he is basically saying in the first video is just stop fooling others and using religion as a cover-up ...instead of living in fear of people judging you live in the grace of god...religious people live by what they say they believe sometimes and what they do says another but we shouldn't judge anyone..we should show the love of Jesus Christ..
i respect what you tried to do here but most of what he said in the first video was very true...people tend to say they are christian when they're living in fornication and all that mess.partly what you said is true as well but the point is Christianity has many distinct parts to it..like Methodist, Pentecostal, Lutheran and, Jehovah witnesses,
Funny, you're doing the same thing that you say he's doing. The completely bias statements you said just proves my point even more. And speaking of judging, you're doing the same thing.. Things you said about him on the video can very much relate to you as well. Twisting ones word to make them wrong, just saying, that's not what jesus would do.
@bhzirnheld But he didn't say what he really meant, nor did he take down the video in which he doesn't say what he really meant. The damage and confusion he has sown can't be undone by saying "you don't understand" when people are just taking him at his words. God bless.
Great video! You had to have invested many hours of editing, searching and composing this incredibly happening response to Bethke's video, while interjecting so tellingly at the points where he mis-states, contradicts or otherwise screws up what he was trying to do and say. His lack of complete understanding of the scriptures is made glaringly apparent by your jaw-droppingly gracious responses. Thank you, again.
@Revfiskj I think Bethke has to concede your "touche"(and the final thrust)! And maybe now,if he heard this,he does. I'm sure you wouldn't necessarily want me to say that, but it's how I see it. Love your interjections,done firmly, yet, with grace! Where he did happen to get it right, you said so. And you had inserted the good ol' common sense where it was missing, and Truth where quite necessary. I knew I(+many) "had a problem" with it and, thanks, you articulated "why" very well:-)
Hey there Revfiskj, apparently you have read the Bible very close or need to read it a whole lot more and ask the Holy Spirit to teach you what it means.!!!
Anyone with a Brain knows that it was religion that killed Jesus, and Paul and many more of the martyrs!
The kid didn't quote enough scripture for you, well... here's on to get you started down the road to the Truth!
Romans 10:4 (NASB)
4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.
@JovenDdeus Fascinating. Are you not mixed up? Can anyone be not mixed up? Or are you simply stating the post modern byline that there is no Truth that we can actually know?
If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain. Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world. (James 1:26-27)
@Lifescythe Since then, he has written to K. DeYoung's similar critique: " “I just wanted to say I really appreciate your article man. It hit me hard. I’ll even be honest and say I agree 100%. God has been working with me in the last 6 months on loving Jesus AND loving his church. For the first few years of walking with Jesus (started in ’08) I had a warped/poor paradigm of the church and it didn’t build up, unify, or glorify His wife (the Bride).” Funny: it didn't get as many hits.
The Bible only accounts of 3 years of his life, the last 3. But he survived the crucifixion by entering into a state of Yogic breath regulation. He was taken down from the cross after only 6 hours, while it takes at least 48 hours to die by crucifixion, some people lasting 6 days.
This is why a soldier pierced Jesus side, they were surprised that such a fit man could die in just 6 hours. Yoga believes that one can let the body die without it really dying.
Thank you. I think the shift away from Christ alone and focus on self is all too familiar in our culture, yet nothing new. May I ask another question? What did Jesus mean by "judge not," because I suspect it's grossly misunderstood and misused by those in and out of the faith. Since it cropped up in this video ("Now I ain't judgin'"), can you comment on that please? I recently bumped into this when I suggested prayer for the salvation of a family member, I was told to leave the judging to God.
I gotta ask. I watch and rewatch this frequently because there is so much foundational truth in it, but I'm missing ONE word that I just can't catch. Can you please tell me the proper sentence you say at minute 5:55? It starts, "You're saying it's about us - that I as a human, God actually be Jesus" or "...got (or gotta) actually be Jesus" ?? Thank you, and God bless you !!
@DailyThread2 "gotta" - as in the classic legalistic move to shift the emphasis from "Jesus for me" to "Jesus in me for others." It is true that Christ is in us, but his effect on our behavior is not what makes us Christians. It is not in our being his hands and feet that we are justified as the Church. It is in what he did once and for all. I'm not a Christian because I'm like Jesus. I'm a Christian because Jesus has taken the place of me.
Somewhat funny, but also rude. You seem like an orthodox christian or catholic who missed Bethke's point: A Relationship with Jesus far supersedes rituals and the "law", because the law means nothing if you don't know the one who saves your personally.
Curious, do you ever feel God's presence? His tingling warmth? A fire burning inside your chest? Of course I am about the law, but it MUST come second to a relationship with Christ.
Btw less film cuts, sounds sporadic and hard to follow.
@JesusAwakening Gods presence is giving with certainty in his Word and Sacraments. By faith I believe and am sanctified in his Truth. Feelings have very little to do with it. God never promises in his Word to meet me in my feelings. Meanwhile, my relationship with the Jesus of Scripture does not supercede but his founded on *his* rituals of preaching, baptizing and feeding me with his Supper. This is orthodox Christianity.
Constantine the first beast compiled 50 bibles, legalized Christianity and set up the false prophet (pope). King James the second beast, born 6/1566, 6th of Scotland, homo, authorized 66 book bible in 1611 to control the people with, an image of God's word they make to speak (the bible says). They carry it in their hand and memorize it in their head.
@BIBLEisMARKofBEAST This is truly fascinating, especially given the fact that the "mark of the beast" is a phrase found in the Bible. So...on what historical sources are you basing this massive conglomeration of information?
@Revfiskj Go to a voodoo meeting, go with ghost hunters, visit a haunted house, go to the graveyard at 3am, watch a haunting in GA, a haunting in CT, the exorsist, contact wicca, visit with psychic mediums, Lillydale NY, call on Satan with the names Belial or Beelzebub. You need to learn that spirits are real, don't be a coward.
@BIBLEisMARKofBEAST Alright. Well, I think that will be the last comment I approve on this topic, as you really are making very little sense. Because I believe that evil spirits are real, I will not do any of the things you mentioned, but I will trust my Lord's clear and unchanging Word.
@Revfiskj If it were possible Satan would deceive the elect with this delusion. By having faith in this idol, they break the new covenant of having faith in the Living Jesus through the Holy Spirit, who is the word of God. The bible is only history and has no authority.
THE BIBLE IS THE MARK OF THE BEAST! Ask Jesus for the Holy Spirit.
@BIBLEisMARKofBEAST Again, on what basis do you tell me that I should ask Jesus for the Holy Spirit? Who is Jesus? Where do I find out about him? Truly, you have a dizzying intellect.
I am not Lutheran, as I am Southern Baptist--but I agree about the views on the video nevertheless. We as Christians are supposed to be loving. The messages that Jesus laid out and that we follow IS religion. No beating around the bush with that. However, some still want to undermine what is their own faith. Thanks for the video btw... Very intuitive.
Although you make some good points in your video, I think you're missing the point of Bethke's video. In interviews he held, he had said that he wasn't trying to bash religion. The point of his video was to make people think about their actions. How many people do you know that have "Christian" on their Facebook, but haven't been to church in a few years?? I know a few hundred. People are different and there are different ways to tell people about Jesus. The video isn't targeted to you!
@netchris Funny. Most responses I've seen on youtube use his video as an excuse not to go back to Church. Meanwhile, he bashed the all religion as starting wars and failing to feed the poor. His target may not have been me, but he hit me, and many, many others who were deeply disturbed and hurt by his brash language. pax
@Revfiskj I value your comments, but I believe you are attacking the guy. I watched a video response from another pastor and he said that he was an ally of Bethke if he was saying in his video that he was against the corruptions of the church. That response sits much better than yours. You're saying that Bethke used "brash language" to get his point across, but you're doing the same thing.
@netchris I didn't say I "hate" anything, and then use a convoluted definition of the word, lumping all sorts of people together. I said I disagree with a theological position and a set of tactics used in argument. Two very different things. Funny how the guy "hating" stuff is friendly, and the guy saying "don't hate" is "attacking. Go figure.
May the Lord continue to richly bless your work. Even though I've been a Reformed (still Reforming) Christian for five+ years (Arminian five+ before), God is using the truths in your presentation to sanctify me. It isn't about what I do, but what Jesus did. It is finished. And all of our works - my work - will rightly flow out of love for Him, saving a wretch like me. My work is but to believe into Him and walk in what He has prepared for me. Thank you for blessing me and so many. In Him, Susan
I think that your response to the video was a good one and it changed the way that I thought about it, but you both have some good points. Also wars have been fought over religion. I don't know if you mean recently but take the crusades. Those were just to get the muslums out of the holy land. Yes the pope started that but he thought that he was right because he was doing it for christianity. Please tell me if I'm wrong about that. However I do believe that Jesus came to fulfill the law.
@wendu675 Wars have been fought over people in the name of religion, but very few religions teach war in their tenets. With the exception of Islam, anyone fighting a war in the name of religion is abusing that religion.
@Revfiskj I agree. The motive might behind the war itself may not be religion, but at the source of many of our most violent wars, religion was there and still is.
@joedeshields Atheism has been behind a few wars itself. The problem is not having a "set of beliefs," the problem is that humanity is evil and prefers to kill others to get ahead. Rock on.
This is a great response to that video! The first time I watched it I was so confused....but then I watched your explanation and it definitely cleared some stuff up. Thank you very much for your views on that video :) I just still can't believe that that video got that many hits....crazy...
Saw alot of good points in your video-yeah there is a diff between false religion and true religion-but Bethke has alot of good points too. And we both know that as a ELCA Lutheran, Im not allowed to take communion in a MS Luth church-which is wack...dude I would love to see you and Bethke do a video together-that would be Dope!
@Revfiskj Yep, I've actually been to quite a few LCMS churches that are a lot more liberal than others. For many of those churches, the only way to find out it's an LCMS church is by searching on the LCMS website. Maybe it's time for the LCMS to tighten up ship?
Though I am not a Lutheran (I am a Seventh Day Adventist) I really like your response. You have captured all of my feelings on the video and in a creative way, great job sir!
Hey rev. My name is samule and I just wanna ask if u could just lisen to what that man is saying just open Ur mind a little on how Jesus could dislike religion he makes a lot of sense but if u don't want to hear what he is saying then u won't plz lisen to me a have thought and prayed about this.
@SamKicksAce123 He did listen to what he was saying. And responded to that. Like Rev. Fisk says in the video, Jesus does not hate religion, he hates FALSE religion and hypocrisy. (see 6:20) Bethke does not distinguish between the two.
Yes, he does make some good points (i.e., the Law can't save you, nor can works) but he completely ignores (dare I say denies) the fact that the whole of true religion (BOTH the Law AND the Gospel) points toward Jesus. Religion is Jesus.
Watched this with my Lutheran Youth Fellowship last night and this was amazing! :) Way to show them how it really is with the BIBLE! (the way Lutherans respond to false statements!)
this guy, commentator, gets it compliantly oposit, wanting to be famous on other man account, by just bulshiting. He is like correcting him, but he is sarcastic? This guy, dosent know what religion is, he misses justification by faith, and over all pathetic, friend come with new idea and get 15 million responses on video, I would have never known of you if you didn't shit over him... Baptism saves yous is like saying, Jesus is literally wine, and like Jesus is literally lion, man you need help
@Dejan827 Calm down here man. This is just a pastorwho is merely working to dissect the Religion<Jesus man's video. He was not trying to "be famous" on the other man's account by any means. And as for baptism saves you, it most surely does, check out Romans 6:4 Titus 3:5-8 Mark 16:16 and Matt 28:19. Take a look.
@Dejan827 So when Jesus said, "This IS my body," and "This IS my blood," He didn't really mean it? Greek is a precise language and Jesus was not speaking in hyperbole. Also, if you want to compare 15 million views on the other guys video, and Rev. Fisk's 40k, that would be like saying Hitler was right and 1 Billion people agree with it. Just because a lot of people watched or even agreed, doesn't make it right.
perfect!!!!! The response i was looking for! :) Finally the truth and im glad Bethke made that video because he gave us another oppertunity to defend and uphold the CATHOLIC CHURCH with all of its God saving TRUTHS!
Rev. Fisk, thanks for such a clear articulation of the Lutheran position on these and many issues. Your videos were instrumental in helping me to find a home in Protestantism when I felt like giving up.
I agree with the comment below...going to church doesn't safe you but Jesus does!! he didn't meant no harm just open the eyes of those who attend to church however live a double life...let me remind you that Jesus sore with the preist and question their ways and their false believes...more less what the other guy did!! plus as Christians we should know that God needs no Lawer to defend his kingdom....so weather on not we agree creating a war is not our job..is not what Jesus cake us to....
This video=amazing! It really makes me sad & frustrated when i see videos like "Jesus>Religion". I wish people could understand where you & myself are coming from. but we simply have to remember to. People who aren't open & willing to God and his word arent going to understand where we are coming from. Because even if they were to read the bible or study JESUS'S RELIGION, if they arent open to God and give there lives fully to him they arent going to see it like us. itll be just another book
Very excellent response and awesome production skills. Thanks a gillion for it. If only you'd stick with Christianity alone, rather than going the Lutheran direction I'd even share this. That's not meant as an attack, I'm just not Lutheran and can't conscientiously promote it even though I'd like to promote the other 99% of your video. Brotherly, ---JLP
The "I Hate Religion but Love Jesus" Guy Answers 5 Tough Questions.
It's Jefferson Bethke's answer to some questions about this video. What are your thoughts? By the way I just found about about you and your channel this past week with the explosion of the Jesus>Religion video. I'm glad it came to pass, I am now addicted... Thanks. 8-)
Personally i think both of you had good points, and he was attacking more of "traditions" rather than religion, i.e. the Catholic Church used to collect money (i'm forgetting the name) for forgiveness of sins, and as it says in Proverbs 18:17 "In a lawsuit the first to speak seems right, until someone comes forward and cross-examines." in other words hear both sides of the story before coming to a decision,it appears, in spots, that you attacked him and not his argument, thanks for examining him
Another question; could Bethke be not against the church itself, but the Christians making it up...? What I'm saying is, I recently read Phillip Yancy's "What's So Amazing About Grace?", and it brings up similar points. So many Christians today are really judgmental of homosexuals and the such, yet they are forsaking the actual gospel of grace. Many lukewarms also think being "moral" is all you need to enter heaven. Is he right in attacking these people?
You say that he keeps attacking religion, while arguing that he seems to actually mean attacking the Law, or perhaps the morals that many people think will save them (James 1:21), and confuses that with religion.
Also, you seem to be afraid that, because of his publicity, his well-sounding argument against the church is spreading like a false gospel of sorts.
Is this what you're trying to say? Sorry, this video was long and I want to be sure I'm getting what you're actually saying.
Absolutely loved the video! God bless, its good see people who understand the entire video is a false dichotomy, why religion or Jesus? How about religion and Christ?
Man, I get what's being said from both points. I like your video, it has a lot of truth, but I don't think this other guy who wrote the poem meant to insult following Christ's word. I think what he meant was there are a lot of people out there who claim to be "Christians" who aren't. And following the law without the Gospel is useless because then it's like you're trying to earn your way to heaven but you can't. I think what the man's trying to say is that if you love Christ you'll automatically
Can I just say, THANK YOU for pointing out all the errors in that video!! Everyone was talking about how amazing it was, but I watched it and I understood what he saw, but what he saw was only people who truly are NOT Christians, who do NOT believe in the Triune God. The people who go to church on Christmas and think that's enough to say they believe, but don't act in a Christian manner any other time. So THANK YOU SO MUCH!! <3 <3
As with Bethke's video, I too am now slowing down the comments. I've done my best to respond honestly and with grace to all of you (even those of you wishing me harm. o.O) Unfortunately, I will not be able to keep up the pace, and I cannot allow comments that make clearly false assertions to post without some response. As a result, comments will now be posted after approval. If you're not approved, it means you're either being rude, or speaking without sufficient backing. +pax+
I found the Jesus > Religion video extremely offensive and unclear. Now millions have seen a message that is not clear, who knows what damage that has done at this point. Not everyone who has seen it agrees with it, or finds it a peaceful message. I appreciate someone speaking up and highlighting the weaknesses in the first video for those of us who were offended and felt attacked. Responsible people do not just stand back and watch. They take action. I am glad Revfiskj did.
@08HErin This is the most important thing. A great many Christian's found their faith hindered and attacked by the original. Every positive comment I have received has been one of gratitude that authentic personal faith was alleviated from the guilt and weight which Bethke needlessly placed on them. Meanwhile, every attack I have received has been an attack on me for attacking. If only there were a way to explain the irony of it all! :D Keep rockin.
@08HErin Have you ever thought of it this way: While millions of people might have received an unclear message, lets say that Bethke's message introduced 50,000 of those people to Christ. Is it worth it? I would definitely say so!
@netchris Getting people to listen is not an excuse for false doctrine. What I have seen is people hearing that "Jesus" is a reason *not* to go to Church. That's not the Jesus of Scripture, nor the faith Jesus would have us preach.
@Revfiskj I'm not disagreeing that Bethke is leaving stuff out. I also agree with you that it's a bad thing if people are getting a message from the video that you don't have to go to church. However, I still believe it wasn't his intention for his message to come across that way. Just curious...have you sent him a message or e-mail to share your thoughts? If you haven't, why not?
@netchris Intentions mean very little. What really happened matters. And no, of course not. Matthew 18 has nothing to do with public discourse. A debate is a debate: nothing more, nothing less. I hold no ill will to him as a human. pax
@netchris Introduce 50,000 people to Christ. Which Christ? The one from the Bible? The true and living God? or the easy going Jesus who doesn't care about sin at all and just 'loves' everybody without any problem. Is that the Jesus they are introduced to? Just wondering. Thanks.
Ok man you've got some good points but you're acting as this man doesn't love Jesus at all. You're fighting on a completely different topic. Hes saying how he can't stand religions and what they've turned into nowadays, ESPECIALLY within the church. You even say "I think you need to learn Lutheranism." have you realized that Lutheranism was founded by man, Martin Luther? Hes saying he follows God not man made things. So before you diss someones video, make sure you analyze it and make valid arg
At first i really loved his video. It seemed solid and made sense. Then on a friends facebook page i saw your video and i'm so glad i did. At first i was very skeptical cause i've seen plenty of videos against his that i didn't agree with. So i did a little bible reading on my own (i'm still in the process actually) and pieced things together for myself. I started with John 14:23 and its not difficult at all to see the holes in what he's saying. I thank God for inspiring you to make this video.
OK, one more thing I'd like your thoughts on. i would not go as far as attacking religion. I believe the church is to God, like the schools and universities are to education. If we attack schools we are attacking education. That said some folks learn on their own from books and experience. The same goes for christians, some may not attend church, yet read the bible daily, the confessions, Luther's works etc. Radio, the internet etc. can proclaim the word as good as the local church.. .
@henrka Not really. Certainly, the Word can work through these medium, but giving up the habit of meeting together is very harmful. One loses not only accountability, more more importantly, connection to the body. One cannot be a member of the body without the body. More so, the Lord's Supper is where this unity is given. That is something you simply cannot do alone or through the radio. +pax+
@Revfiskj Kind'a like what the author of Hebrew's says; ""And let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds, not giving up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but encouraging one another—and all the more as you see the Day approaching." Heb. 10:24-25 I do this religiously.
@henrka To add to Revfiskj's response, communal faiths are the only examples of faith that the Bible depicts. Being a Christian separate from the community of faith is a concept that probably never crossed the minds of those who wrote these books and letters. If they were to comprehend it, I am certain that they would have totally rejected the notion because of how much it runs counter to the central tenets of the faith (e.g. the "body" of Christ).
Can you please explain why it was necessary to attack a video purely meant, as the description on the video says, "to highlight the difference between Jesus and false religion." Jesus is not religion, he's right. Christianity, the belief system that is based on His life and teachings, is. But Jesus' teachings all pointed to something so much bigger than just a set of beliefs and traditions and moral codes, and as a pastor, you should not only know that, but recognize it.
@Natrone011 The irony is that I did not attack him, but have defended Christianity, the religion, against his attack. Brash, sweeping words of "hate" caused damage to many peoples' faith in Christ this past week.Someone needed to defend Christianity, the religion, as something other than a mere set of moral codes, man made or otherwise. As a pastor, that is my job. Jesus is religion in the best sense. He is the Word of God, God's own self-expression. He is true religion's fulfillment. +pax+
but the point is that the other guys doesn't distinguish between "true" religion and "false" religion. that's poor hermeneutics on your part: you're analyzing that video on a deeper level to justify what he says, but you ignore the simple level-one analysis, which are the words he uses. one who doesn't have aChristian background just takes the words he says at face value. how would THEY think of the Church after viewing his video? they'd think it's a farce and not worth their time...
@Revfiskj I don't want to get into an argument on the internet, but there are a few things I need to point out.
1. To respond to his video mockingly and sarcastically is an attack. Passive-aggressive, yes, but still an attack.
2. Defending Christianity, the religion, instead of sharing the love of Christ, the person, the Savior, and attacking cold, false, meaningless religion (which is what the original video does), is one of the big reasons the Lutheran church, and the church in...
@Natrone011 I think you need to do a little reading on the definition of "passive aggressive." In fact, the more I rewrite these three responses (now working 30 min on them), the more I see that you yourself are quite the master at passive aggression (as the textbooks define it.) You have done a masterful job at pushing me into a corner I did not chose, in which am forced to be the "mean" one. Nuancing words into vagueness with unfounded assertions is not rooted in a desire to share ideas.
@Revfiskj ...general is becoming smaller every year. And this isn't an attack on the Lutheran church from an outsider. I am a Lutheran, and a student at Concordia where I am a DCE student with an emphasis in youth ministry.
3. As a pastor, your job is not to defend cold religion. Your job is to teach why the religion that goes along with the love and warmth of a relationship with Christ is beautiful and meaningful. I would love to see a video from you about the deep meaning of...
@Natrone011 Meanwhile, the statement that the church is shrinking betrays a real ignorance of global Christianity. Where the churches are dying is where we western progressives have abandoned fidelity to the Word of God. Your arguments are not new. They are 200+ years old, and they are the root of the decline of Christian stability in the states.This history can be shown unequivocally. If this is what you are being taught as preparation for teaching our young, it does not bode well.
@Revfiskj ...religious practices associated with Christianity. Things like communion and the liturgy of worship services and baptism.
Really, no one needed to defend Christianity as something more than moral codes. That is exactly what the original video was all about. Christianity is bigger than a mere set of moral codes, because Jesus is Christianity. But the Christianity that is presented in the media is just moral codes, and that is what was being attacked.
@Natrone011 I am really not feeling the love. For a student, you take much upon your own shoulders. But you cannot prove that criticism of an idea (in its own medium) is the same as a personal attack. Nor can you prove from Scripture that contending for the faith is not the job of a pastor. Nor can you show that the Scriptures do not teach doctrine and Truth as the source of our love in Christ. Nor can you dig Bethke's attack on "religion" out of the careless whole it dug for itself.
@MrOsu9119 As to baptism, that discussions been had in this thread several times already. The show this coming week will take up that topic again as well. But you can just google "worldview everlasting" and "Baptism" and you'll be able to find tons of info on what St. Peter means when *he* says "baptism now saves you."
@Revfisk So it is apparent that this guy has been hurt by the church more times than can count. Hurt by pastors, hurt by people in the church who claim to know Christ but don't practice what christ was about. Your response as it appears to me seems to be biting, hurtful and spiteful toward someone already broken by the church. You also said that your job as a pastor was to defend Christianity" Where in the bible does it say that pastor's job is to defend the faith. I find no evidence for that.
As I see it in the Bible from the inception of the church, the job of a leader in the church is to teach and guide, love and be loved and in some cases correct. I just think your response could have been better towards a broken person. That's how I see how Jesus treated broken people. Sorry if this comes off harsh. I don't mean it to be
@SecondStage1983 Really? 1 Timothy 1 for starters. Jude 1:3 teaches that it is every Christians job too. I feel for Bethke. I get what it is to be hurt. That's why I affirmed his love of the Gospel and encouraged him to find a tradition where the theology will give him what he says he is looking for. Not sure how that is an attack, much less spiteful. Is it spiteful to disagree? If so, then why are you disagreeing with me? Is it spite? Very quickly, we are left unable to even speak.
Further to my last post, I can not say how important it is for the church to confess the mortal sin that dwells in it, while at the same time the saving grace that overcomes all sin that also dwells within the church.
@henrka Men should confess their sin, to be sure. Men in the Church must by daily drowning and repentance recognize that nothing good lives in us, in our flesh. But this is not the fault of God's religion/Word. The abuse of something does not make the thing itself evil. Rock on.
Great video, I think there are many people that see church history (crusades, irish terrorism between catholics and protestants, catholic leaders blessing weapons and the country's military during war etc.) and are turned off by religion. Not too mention theological wars, and not just during the reformation but within reformed groups as well. Divisions in the church, politics in the church, etc. I think we need to admit that the church is a fallen institution, sinful but blessed by God.
@nicoXP3712, the word that you cited was not in my vocabulary. Thank you for the addition. However, before you make the assumption that an individual has to "Google" big words, you should be aware that some people actually take time out to learn these things outside of trivial internet uses.
@ChelseaHiler143 well i'm certainly glad to have helped you expand it. and you know that wasn't my point. my point is that, whether it was your intent or not, your original post sounded so forced with it's language, that the only reasonable conclusion one could draw is that either you're a grammar and vocab snob, or you're forcing it and TRYING to sound smart. neither helps your argument. i'm not deliberately trying to be mean, i'm just saying how it sounded.
@ChelseaHiler143 and for the record, if i was mean in earlier posts, i do apologize. i need to wean myself off of doing this while the argument is so enveloped in flame. but yeah, if anything i said hurt your feelings, i am sorry. truly. ... gotta quit letting things like this get to me... something for me to work on, yeah?
@LivinTheHylife - my position is far from dogmatic. It's simple: The Bible was pieced together by members of the Roman Catholic church (A.K.A. fallible human beings). Said Bible then becomes the precipice of disagreement that sparks the Protestant Reformation, namely with your beloved Martin Luther (Only one who named his Protestant sect after HIMSELF), which then made it's wayward way into "Christianity" and used to justify devilish acts of "human kindness." Jaded. Not dogmatic.
Friend, I think you are missing his point. As it says in James, perfect religion is to take care of orphans and widows. He is referring to abolishing religion as it is viewed today. He is referring to abolishing religion as the Pharisee's saw it. He is saying it isnt about going to a building on sunday, it isnt about traditions, it isnt about position or self-righteousness. Its about LOVE and taking care of the needy and saving the lost. Everyone is missing the poets point here.
@nicoXP3712, I apologize for having a legitimate vocabulary and the ability to use words you probably do not understand. A dictionary may be useful for you.
i really shouldn't be surprised that you'd try to attack my intelligence -- for the record, i DID make it into graduate school so i can't be THAT stupid. had to take the same GRE as everyone else. no, my argument is that you're trying to puff yourself up by using language that you looked up on google tryin to somehow objectify and legitimize your claim. you want a good word? opprobrious. and i WILL cite that i did look that up in a thesaurus but now i've learned something today.
@Revfiskj Hi - I enjoyed your response video. While I agree with most of what you had to say, I still think the root of the problem is one man's definition of the word "religion". (Yes, I know what Webster calls it, and what Scripture calls it to for that matter). This leads me to what you said about Evangelicalism.. can you please clarify your statement? Please help me understand what it is you imply.
Forget both videos just for a few seconds and ask yourself theses questions if you are a Christian.
1. How much time have you spent talking WITH Jesus today.
2, How many of you can honestly say you have got through the day without sinning? If you can honestly say yes to this, then give me your address and I will post you the rock to throw at this guy.
A question to Revjski....Why not just email Jefferson and challenge him respectfully if you were concerned about his video.
i have to say your very religious but religion is junk JESUS is a relationship noty a religion sorry but i agree with him and you dissing someone who is against religion i think if it wasnt true i wouldnt have been convixted by the holy spirit and felt that! its true BAPTISM does not SAVE you it shows the world you are a follower of Christ! i belive he is a spirit led man who is changing the world through the holy spirit YOOOOOOOOOOOO
I am Lutheran. I'm lead to believe you are as well. I know we tend to look at things in a more intelligent manner, and I'm glad you saw these videos. Its no wonder people look down so much on Christianity these days- because terrible examples like that kid arise, and it honestly embarrasses me. Even though rap is generally illiterate and unintelligent (imso), a video about the Gospel in the same manner doesn't need to be.
This is great. So many kids my age and even older eat up this guy's rhymsical way of saying things. Really read the Bible before you say these kinds of things, people! Come on.
Yo, shout out to the Lutherans out there. whaaaat
I am thankful someone had the faith to respond to his video. It made me sick, too, especially to see so many people get sucked into the appealing face of it all. I am only a teen yet and still have a lot to learn, but I think it's clear that emotions are a big problem here. The Bible speaks of people following teachers that "say what their itching ears want to hear" (2 Tim 4:3, NIV). Our sinful nature welcomes what sounds wise and appealing, leaving the cross to seem like "foolishness" to us.
Ithaedral 3 days ago in playlist Favorite videos
Hey, I just wanted to say that I really appreciated this video. It's easy to start bashing "religion," it's not nearly as easy to see your own sin and shortcomings. I think I love Jesus MORE when I see the Church as His bride, when I see that He loves US as well as me. Because like the Bible says so many times, the law is there to show us our sin and then point us to Christ, it's not something to resent or try to get away from.
We obey Jesus because we WANT to as a response to His saving grace!
ianmaphet 5 days ago
now i am only 13yrs old but Jesus has radically changed my life and i don't think he did any harm in the first video nor did you except maybe you were a little too critical, both opened peoples mind and gave a different perspective which in some ways was beneficial and some ways not.
JovenDdeus 5 days ago
and what he is basically saying in the first video is just stop fooling others and using religion as a cover-up ...instead of living in fear of people judging you live in the grace of god...religious people live by what they say they believe sometimes and what they do says another but we shouldn't judge anyone..we should show the love of Jesus Christ..
JovenDdeus 5 days ago
i respect what you tried to do here but most of what he said in the first video was very true...people tend to say they are christian when they're living in fornication and all that mess.partly what you said is true as well but the point is Christianity has many distinct parts to it..like Methodist, Pentecostal, Lutheran and, Jehovah witnesses,
JovenDdeus 5 days ago
I'm not religious, but I appreciate the logical consistent thinking promoted in this video. That first video was "wack" as they say.
RandomUsername8236 6 days ago
Funny, you're doing the same thing that you say he's doing. The completely bias statements you said just proves my point even more. And speaking of judging, you're doing the same thing.. Things you said about him on the video can very much relate to you as well. Twisting ones word to make them wrong, just saying, that's not what jesus would do.
itsCarlo89 6 days ago
GO WITH GOD!!
BananaCake64 1 week ago
he was on the news and explained what he really ment about this video you should really look it up
bhzirnheld 1 week ago
@bhzirnheld But he didn't say what he really meant, nor did he take down the video in which he doesn't say what he really meant. The damage and confusion he has sown can't be undone by saying "you don't understand" when people are just taking him at his words. God bless.
Revfiskj 1 week ago 2
Thank you so much for this. That is all I have to say <3
lifeofMaddi 1 week ago
Ur amazing.
xamyxisxcoolx 1 week ago
Jesus=LOVE
greenyeyes77 1 week ago
in fact, it's only the matter of definition..... your video and his video define the word "religion" in a different way..........
ky6959ky2 1 week ago
Great video! You had to have invested many hours of editing, searching and composing this incredibly happening response to Bethke's video, while interjecting so tellingly at the points where he mis-states, contradicts or otherwise screws up what he was trying to do and say. His lack of complete understanding of the scriptures is made glaringly apparent by your jaw-droppingly gracious responses. Thank you, again.
007TruthSeeker 1 week ago
I hate your video
EricShalenKumar 2 weeks ago
Awesome.
Revfiskj 2 weeks ago 4
@Revfiskj I think Bethke has to concede your "touche"(and the final thrust)! And maybe now,if he heard this,he does. I'm sure you wouldn't necessarily want me to say that, but it's how I see it. Love your interjections,done firmly, yet, with grace! Where he did happen to get it right, you said so. And you had inserted the good ol' common sense where it was missing, and Truth where quite necessary. I knew I(+many) "had a problem" with it and, thanks, you articulated "why" very well:-)
womanwonder10 3 days ago
I just want to point out that if your voice was maybe half an octave lower, you'd sound like Nathan Fillion almost exactly.
MCulpa 2 weeks ago
Hey there Revfiskj, apparently you have read the Bible very close or need to read it a whole lot more and ask the Holy Spirit to teach you what it means.!!!
Anyone with a Brain knows that it was religion that killed Jesus, and Paul and many more of the martyrs!
The kid didn't quote enough scripture for you, well... here's on to get you started down the road to the Truth!
Romans 10:4 (NASB)
4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.
progbass56 3 weeks ago
@progbass56 Right! So...I guess I can hate my brother and still be a Christian then, right?
Revfiskj 3 weeks ago
False religion killed Jesus. @progbass56 A kangaroo court judged God, following their own will. God says to us lepers, "I will. Be clean."
vet3shaw 2 weeks ago
@progbass56
Matthew 7:1
matthew6144 2 weeks ago
u sound kinda lutheran..."by faith alone we are saved?" ...but i only agree with certain things...truth is ur mixed up too...
JovenDdeus 3 weeks ago
@JovenDdeus Fascinating. Are you not mixed up? Can anyone be not mixed up? Or are you simply stating the post modern byline that there is no Truth that we can actually know?
Revfiskj 3 weeks ago
Shalom... I'm sure someone has quoted this:
If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain. Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world. (James 1:26-27)
Shalom
AgapeTouch 3 weeks ago
To be fair to the guy who made the first video, he defines religion as "do this and God will love me" Under that definition the video is correct.
But according to the Webster Dictionary definition, Christianity is indeed a religion.
Lifescythe 3 weeks ago
@Lifescythe Since then, he has written to K. DeYoung's similar critique: " “I just wanted to say I really appreciate your article man. It hit me hard. I’ll even be honest and say I agree 100%. God has been working with me in the last 6 months on loving Jesus AND loving his church. For the first few years of walking with Jesus (started in ’08) I had a warped/poor paradigm of the church and it didn’t build up, unify, or glorify His wife (the Bride).” Funny: it didn't get as many hits.
Revfiskj 3 weeks ago
Funny. I only disagree with the parts of that that deny clear passages of Scripture. Jesus fulfilled the atonement for sure.
Revfiskj 3 weeks ago
...... I'm beginning to lose all faith in humanity
krnoz 3 weeks ago
@krnoz That's the first step. XD
Revfiskj 3 weeks ago
The Bible only accounts of 3 years of his life, the last 3. But he survived the crucifixion by entering into a state of Yogic breath regulation. He was taken down from the cross after only 6 hours, while it takes at least 48 hours to die by crucifixion, some people lasting 6 days.
This is why a soldier pierced Jesus side, they were surprised that such a fit man could die in just 6 hours. Yoga believes that one can let the body die without it really dying.
MMurray08 1 month ago
And people think normal Christianity is made up of myths and legend.
Revfiskj 3 weeks ago
Thank you. I think the shift away from Christ alone and focus on self is all too familiar in our culture, yet nothing new. May I ask another question? What did Jesus mean by "judge not," because I suspect it's grossly misunderstood and misused by those in and out of the faith. Since it cropped up in this video ("Now I ain't judgin'"), can you comment on that please? I recently bumped into this when I suggested prayer for the salvation of a family member, I was told to leave the judging to God.
DailyThread2 1 month ago
I gotta ask. I watch and rewatch this frequently because there is so much foundational truth in it, but I'm missing ONE word that I just can't catch. Can you please tell me the proper sentence you say at minute 5:55? It starts, "You're saying it's about us - that I as a human, God actually be Jesus" or "...got (or gotta) actually be Jesus" ?? Thank you, and God bless you !!
DailyThread2 1 month ago in playlist freestylin: jesus+religion
@DailyThread2 "gotta" - as in the classic legalistic move to shift the emphasis from "Jesus for me" to "Jesus in me for others." It is true that Christ is in us, but his effect on our behavior is not what makes us Christians. It is not in our being his hands and feet that we are justified as the Church. It is in what he did once and for all. I'm not a Christian because I'm like Jesus. I'm a Christian because Jesus has taken the place of me.
Revfiskj 1 month ago
Dude you are amazing
TheCreamchee 1 month ago
Somewhat funny, but also rude. You seem like an orthodox christian or catholic who missed Bethke's point: A Relationship with Jesus far supersedes rituals and the "law", because the law means nothing if you don't know the one who saves your personally.
Curious, do you ever feel God's presence? His tingling warmth? A fire burning inside your chest? Of course I am about the law, but it MUST come second to a relationship with Christ.
Btw less film cuts, sounds sporadic and hard to follow.
JesusAwakening 1 month ago
@JesusAwakening Gods presence is giving with certainty in his Word and Sacraments. By faith I believe and am sanctified in his Truth. Feelings have very little to do with it. God never promises in his Word to meet me in my feelings. Meanwhile, my relationship with the Jesus of Scripture does not supercede but his founded on *his* rituals of preaching, baptizing and feeding me with his Supper. This is orthodox Christianity.
Revfiskj 1 month ago 4
Knowing the definition of a word is PRICELESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! To relegate, is the direct definition.
rossperryr81 1 month ago
Testing...
rickjackieweaver777 1 month ago
@rickjackieweaver777 Testing what? XD Read the fine print.
Revfiskj 1 month ago
Jesus is greater than religion and greater than the bible. He is the word of God. The bible is just a book.
BIBLEisMARKofBEAST 1 month ago
@BIBLEisMARKofBEAST This is just a strange assertion.
Revfiskj 1 month ago
@Revfiskj The BIBLE IS MARK OF THE BEAST
Constantine the first beast compiled 50 bibles, legalized Christianity and set up the false prophet (pope). King James the second beast, born 6/1566, 6th of Scotland, homo, authorized 66 book bible in 1611 to control the people with, an image of God's word they make to speak (the bible says). They carry it in their hand and memorize it in their head.
BIBLEisMARKofBEAST 1 month ago
@BIBLEisMARKofBEAST This is truly fascinating, especially given the fact that the "mark of the beast" is a phrase found in the Bible. So...on what historical sources are you basing this massive conglomeration of information?
Revfiskj 1 month ago
@Revfiskj Go to a voodoo meeting, go with ghost hunters, visit a haunted house, go to the graveyard at 3am, watch a haunting in GA, a haunting in CT, the exorsist, contact wicca, visit with psychic mediums, Lillydale NY, call on Satan with the names Belial or Beelzebub. You need to learn that spirits are real, don't be a coward.
THE BIBLE IS THE MARK OF THE BEAST!
BIBLEisMARKofBEAST 1 month ago
@BIBLEisMARKofBEAST Alright. Well, I think that will be the last comment I approve on this topic, as you really are making very little sense. Because I believe that evil spirits are real, I will not do any of the things you mentioned, but I will trust my Lord's clear and unchanging Word.
Revfiskj 1 month ago
@Revfiskj If it were possible Satan would deceive the elect with this delusion. By having faith in this idol, they break the new covenant of having faith in the Living Jesus through the Holy Spirit, who is the word of God. The bible is only history and has no authority.
THE BIBLE IS THE MARK OF THE BEAST! Ask Jesus for the Holy Spirit.
BIBLEisMARKofBEAST 1 month ago
@BIBLEisMARKofBEAST Again, on what basis do you tell me that I should ask Jesus for the Holy Spirit? Who is Jesus? Where do I find out about him? Truly, you have a dizzying intellect.
Revfiskj 1 month ago
I am not Lutheran, as I am Southern Baptist--but I agree about the views on the video nevertheless. We as Christians are supposed to be loving. The messages that Jesus laid out and that we follow IS religion. No beating around the bush with that. However, some still want to undermine what is their own faith. Thanks for the video btw... Very intuitive.
Seauxx 1 month ago
Although you make some good points in your video, I think you're missing the point of Bethke's video. In interviews he held, he had said that he wasn't trying to bash religion. The point of his video was to make people think about their actions. How many people do you know that have "Christian" on their Facebook, but haven't been to church in a few years?? I know a few hundred. People are different and there are different ways to tell people about Jesus. The video isn't targeted to you!
netchris 1 month ago
@netchris Funny. Most responses I've seen on youtube use his video as an excuse not to go back to Church. Meanwhile, he bashed the all religion as starting wars and failing to feed the poor. His target may not have been me, but he hit me, and many, many others who were deeply disturbed and hurt by his brash language. pax
Revfiskj 1 month ago
@Revfiskj I value your comments, but I believe you are attacking the guy. I watched a video response from another pastor and he said that he was an ally of Bethke if he was saying in his video that he was against the corruptions of the church. That response sits much better than yours. You're saying that Bethke used "brash language" to get his point across, but you're doing the same thing.
netchris 1 month ago
@netchris I didn't say I "hate" anything, and then use a convoluted definition of the word, lumping all sorts of people together. I said I disagree with a theological position and a set of tactics used in argument. Two very different things. Funny how the guy "hating" stuff is friendly, and the guy saying "don't hate" is "attacking. Go figure.
Revfiskj 1 month ago
May the Lord continue to richly bless your work. Even though I've been a Reformed (still Reforming) Christian for five+ years (Arminian five+ before), God is using the truths in your presentation to sanctify me. It isn't about what I do, but what Jesus did. It is finished. And all of our works - my work - will rightly flow out of love for Him, saving a wretch like me. My work is but to believe into Him and walk in what He has prepared for me. Thank you for blessing me and so many. In Him, Susan
DailyThread2 1 month ago
I think that your response to the video was a good one and it changed the way that I thought about it, but you both have some good points. Also wars have been fought over religion. I don't know if you mean recently but take the crusades. Those were just to get the muslums out of the holy land. Yes the pope started that but he thought that he was right because he was doing it for christianity. Please tell me if I'm wrong about that. However I do believe that Jesus came to fulfill the law.
wendu675 1 month ago
@wendu675 Wars have been fought over people in the name of religion, but very few religions teach war in their tenets. With the exception of Islam, anyone fighting a war in the name of religion is abusing that religion.
Revfiskj 1 month ago
@Revfiskj I agree. The motive might behind the war itself may not be religion, but at the source of many of our most violent wars, religion was there and still is.
joedeshields 1 month ago
@joedeshields Atheism has been behind a few wars itself. The problem is not having a "set of beliefs," the problem is that humanity is evil and prefers to kill others to get ahead. Rock on.
Revfiskj 1 month ago
This is a great response to that video! The first time I watched it I was so confused....but then I watched your explanation and it definitely cleared some stuff up. Thank you very much for your views on that video :) I just still can't believe that that video got that many hits....crazy...
davidtimothy012 1 month ago
Saw alot of good points in your video-yeah there is a diff between false religion and true religion-but Bethke has alot of good points too. And we both know that as a ELCA Lutheran, Im not allowed to take communion in a MS Luth church-which is wack...dude I would love to see you and Bethke do a video together-that would be Dope!
RTODDRUNS 1 month ago
@RTODDRUNS You could take communion in my LCMS church...
netchris 1 month ago
@netchris Fascinating. That would be in direct violation of our agreement as LCMS churches to not go rogue.
Revfiskj 1 month ago
@Revfiskj Yep, I've actually been to quite a few LCMS churches that are a lot more liberal than others. For many of those churches, the only way to find out it's an LCMS church is by searching on the LCMS website. Maybe it's time for the LCMS to tighten up ship?
netchris 1 month ago
Though I am not a Lutheran (I am a Seventh Day Adventist) I really like your response. You have captured all of my feelings on the video and in a creative way, great job sir!
zchsmith93 1 month ago
Thank you. I really liked your response, and you interview on Issues Etc... was excellent.
vfrocket 1 month ago
Hey rev. My name is samule and I just wanna ask if u could just lisen to what that man is saying just open Ur mind a little on how Jesus could dislike religion he makes a lot of sense but if u don't want to hear what he is saying then u won't plz lisen to me a have thought and prayed about this.
SamKicksAce123 1 month ago
@SamKicksAce123 He did listen to what he was saying. And responded to that. Like Rev. Fisk says in the video, Jesus does not hate religion, he hates FALSE religion and hypocrisy. (see 6:20) Bethke does not distinguish between the two.
Yes, he does make some good points (i.e., the Law can't save you, nor can works) but he completely ignores (dare I say denies) the fact that the whole of true religion (BOTH the Law AND the Gospel) points toward Jesus. Religion is Jesus.
gogmorgoaway 1 month ago
Watched this with my Lutheran Youth Fellowship last night and this was amazing! :) Way to show them how it really is with the BIBLE! (the way Lutherans respond to false statements!)
Andy61077 1 month ago 2
this guy, commentator, gets it compliantly oposit, wanting to be famous on other man account, by just bulshiting. He is like correcting him, but he is sarcastic? This guy, dosent know what religion is, he misses justification by faith, and over all pathetic, friend come with new idea and get 15 million responses on video, I would have never known of you if you didn't shit over him... Baptism saves yous is like saying, Jesus is literally wine, and like Jesus is literally lion, man you need help
Dejan827 1 month ago
@Dejan827 Calm down here man. This is just a pastorwho is merely working to dissect the Religion<Jesus man's video. He was not trying to "be famous" on the other man's account by any means. And as for baptism saves you, it most surely does, check out Romans 6:4 Titus 3:5-8 Mark 16:16 and Matt 28:19. Take a look.
Your brother in Christ,
Klaus
11webekl 1 month ago
@Dejan827 So when Jesus said, "This IS my body," and "This IS my blood," He didn't really mean it? Greek is a precise language and Jesus was not speaking in hyperbole. Also, if you want to compare 15 million views on the other guys video, and Rev. Fisk's 40k, that would be like saying Hitler was right and 1 Billion people agree with it. Just because a lot of people watched or even agreed, doesn't make it right.
protias 1 month ago 4
perfect!!!!! The response i was looking for! :) Finally the truth and im glad Bethke made that video because he gave us another oppertunity to defend and uphold the CATHOLIC CHURCH with all of its God saving TRUTHS!
sgod33 1 month ago
Can't describe what a blessing this response was!
TuomasErno 1 month ago
Rev. that was boss!!!
theperson654 1 month ago in playlist Uploaded videos
Rev. Fisk, thanks for such a clear articulation of the Lutheran position on these and many issues. Your videos were instrumental in helping me to find a home in Protestantism when I felt like giving up.
mruizmusic 1 month ago
I agree with the comment below...going to church doesn't safe you but Jesus does!! he didn't meant no harm just open the eyes of those who attend to church however live a double life...let me remind you that Jesus sore with the preist and question their ways and their false believes...more less what the other guy did!! plus as Christians we should know that God needs no Lawer to defend his kingdom....so weather on not we agree creating a war is not our job..is not what Jesus cake us to....
pitufa707 1 month ago
This video=amazing! It really makes me sad & frustrated when i see videos like "Jesus>Religion". I wish people could understand where you & myself are coming from. but we simply have to remember to. People who aren't open & willing to God and his word arent going to understand where we are coming from. Because even if they were to read the bible or study JESUS'S RELIGION, if they arent open to God and give there lives fully to him they arent going to see it like us. itll be just another book
MrsBitchboy 1 month ago 2
Very excellent response and awesome production skills. Thanks a gillion for it. If only you'd stick with Christianity alone, rather than going the Lutheran direction I'd even share this. That's not meant as an attack, I'm just not Lutheran and can't conscientiously promote it even though I'd like to promote the other 99% of your video. Brotherly, ---JLP
pappshter1975 1 month ago
Hey I just came across this, article:
The "I Hate Religion but Love Jesus" Guy Answers 5 Tough Questions.
It's Jefferson Bethke's answer to some questions about this video. What are your thoughts? By the way I just found about about you and your channel this past week with the explosion of the Jesus>Religion video. I'm glad it came to pass, I am now addicted... Thanks. 8-)
CUISchwappy 1 month ago
John 5:39 "You search the scriptures because you think they give you eternal life, but the scriptures point to me!" - Jesus
FortuneHomeSales 1 month ago
Personally i think both of you had good points, and he was attacking more of "traditions" rather than religion, i.e. the Catholic Church used to collect money (i'm forgetting the name) for forgiveness of sins, and as it says in Proverbs 18:17 "In a lawsuit the first to speak seems right, until someone comes forward and cross-examines." in other words hear both sides of the story before coming to a decision,it appears, in spots, that you attacked him and not his argument, thanks for examining him
475Torque 1 month ago
Another question; could Bethke be not against the church itself, but the Christians making it up...? What I'm saying is, I recently read Phillip Yancy's "What's So Amazing About Grace?", and it brings up similar points. So many Christians today are really judgmental of homosexuals and the such, yet they are forsaking the actual gospel of grace. Many lukewarms also think being "moral" is all you need to enter heaven. Is he right in attacking these people?
americbornasian 1 month ago
@xlorep
uh, concise? awesome and precise, double extra clear but it is about as concise as the Athanasian Creed
rationalmaterialist 1 month ago
Hmm...
You say that he keeps attacking religion, while arguing that he seems to actually mean attacking the Law, or perhaps the morals that many people think will save them (James 1:21), and confuses that with religion.
Also, you seem to be afraid that, because of his publicity, his well-sounding argument against the church is spreading like a false gospel of sorts.
Is this what you're trying to say? Sorry, this video was long and I want to be sure I'm getting what you're actually saying.
americbornasian 1 month ago
rev fisk you've done it again. a polite, knowledgeable, and classy response... and with the bible verses to back it up. oh yeah, and funny!
kelleyjane07 1 month ago
Thanks Rev. Fisk
ROA86336 1 month ago 3
Absolutely loved the video! God bless, its good see people who understand the entire video is a false dichotomy, why religion or Jesus? How about religion and Christ?
TheIconodule 1 month ago
Man, I get what's being said from both points. I like your video, it has a lot of truth, but I don't think this other guy who wrote the poem meant to insult following Christ's word. I think what he meant was there are a lot of people out there who claim to be "Christians" who aren't. And following the law without the Gospel is useless because then it's like you're trying to earn your way to heaven but you can't. I think what the man's trying to say is that if you love Christ you'll automatically
Jesusisgodarmy 1 month ago 12
Can I just say, THANK YOU for pointing out all the errors in that video!! Everyone was talking about how amazing it was, but I watched it and I understood what he saw, but what he saw was only people who truly are NOT Christians, who do NOT believe in the Triune God. The people who go to church on Christmas and think that's enough to say they believe, but don't act in a Christian manner any other time. So THANK YOU SO MUCH!! <3 <3
MichaelaMarie2012 1 month ago
Another homerun from Rev. Fisk. The hits just keep coming.
ScottStrohkirch 1 month ago 3
This is nothing but brilliance set to video. Awesome! --Anthony Bradley
Elentics 1 month ago 2
As with Bethke's video, I too am now slowing down the comments. I've done my best to respond honestly and with grace to all of you (even those of you wishing me harm. o.O) Unfortunately, I will not be able to keep up the pace, and I cannot allow comments that make clearly false assertions to post without some response. As a result, comments will now be posted after approval. If you're not approved, it means you're either being rude, or speaking without sufficient backing. +pax+
Revfiskj 1 month ago 17
Way to go, Pastor Fisk. Reasoned and Biblical. Thanks for taking the time to respond.
mhburdick 1 month ago
I found the Jesus > Religion video extremely offensive and unclear. Now millions have seen a message that is not clear, who knows what damage that has done at this point. Not everyone who has seen it agrees with it, or finds it a peaceful message. I appreciate someone speaking up and highlighting the weaknesses in the first video for those of us who were offended and felt attacked. Responsible people do not just stand back and watch. They take action. I am glad Revfiskj did.
08HErin 1 month ago 7
@08HErin This is the most important thing. A great many Christian's found their faith hindered and attacked by the original. Every positive comment I have received has been one of gratitude that authentic personal faith was alleviated from the guilt and weight which Bethke needlessly placed on them. Meanwhile, every attack I have received has been an attack on me for attacking. If only there were a way to explain the irony of it all! :D Keep rockin.
Revfiskj 1 month ago 6
@08HErin Have you ever thought of it this way: While millions of people might have received an unclear message, lets say that Bethke's message introduced 50,000 of those people to Christ. Is it worth it? I would definitely say so!
netchris 1 month ago
@netchris Getting people to listen is not an excuse for false doctrine. What I have seen is people hearing that "Jesus" is a reason *not* to go to Church. That's not the Jesus of Scripture, nor the faith Jesus would have us preach.
Revfiskj 1 month ago
@Revfiskj I'm not disagreeing that Bethke is leaving stuff out. I also agree with you that it's a bad thing if people are getting a message from the video that you don't have to go to church. However, I still believe it wasn't his intention for his message to come across that way. Just curious...have you sent him a message or e-mail to share your thoughts? If you haven't, why not?
netchris 1 month ago
@netchris Intentions mean very little. What really happened matters. And no, of course not. Matthew 18 has nothing to do with public discourse. A debate is a debate: nothing more, nothing less. I hold no ill will to him as a human. pax
Revfiskj 1 month ago
@netchris Introduce 50,000 people to Christ. Which Christ? The one from the Bible? The true and living God? or the easy going Jesus who doesn't care about sin at all and just 'loves' everybody without any problem. Is that the Jesus they are introduced to? Just wondering. Thanks.
NoaahsArk 1 month ago
Thanks for challenging false teaching!
stickhorsecowgirls 1 month ago 2
GREAT JOB, Pr. Fisk! SUPERB!
willcweedon 1 month ago
Ok man you've got some good points but you're acting as this man doesn't love Jesus at all. You're fighting on a completely different topic. Hes saying how he can't stand religions and what they've turned into nowadays, ESPECIALLY within the church. You even say "I think you need to learn Lutheranism." have you realized that Lutheranism was founded by man, Martin Luther? Hes saying he follows God not man made things. So before you diss someones video, make sure you analyze it and make valid arg
immaJesusfreak32 1 month ago
Bravo!
danjcase 1 month ago
At first i really loved his video. It seemed solid and made sense. Then on a friends facebook page i saw your video and i'm so glad i did. At first i was very skeptical cause i've seen plenty of videos against his that i didn't agree with. So i did a little bible reading on my own (i'm still in the process actually) and pieced things together for myself. I started with John 14:23 and its not difficult at all to see the holes in what he's saying. I thank God for inspiring you to make this video.
Rootedtotherock 1 month ago 3
I love it, bro! Good work breaking it down.
depravedwretchfilms 1 month ago
OK, one more thing I'd like your thoughts on. i would not go as far as attacking religion. I believe the church is to God, like the schools and universities are to education. If we attack schools we are attacking education. That said some folks learn on their own from books and experience. The same goes for christians, some may not attend church, yet read the bible daily, the confessions, Luther's works etc. Radio, the internet etc. can proclaim the word as good as the local church.. .
henrka 1 month ago in playlist Uploaded videos
@henrka Not really. Certainly, the Word can work through these medium, but giving up the habit of meeting together is very harmful. One loses not only accountability, more more importantly, connection to the body. One cannot be a member of the body without the body. More so, the Lord's Supper is where this unity is given. That is something you simply cannot do alone or through the radio. +pax+
Revfiskj 1 month ago 7
@Revfiskj Kind'a like what the author of Hebrew's says; ""And let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds, not giving up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but encouraging one another—and all the more as you see the Day approaching." Heb. 10:24-25 I do this religiously.
Wal1ie 1 month ago
@henrka To add to Revfiskj's response, communal faiths are the only examples of faith that the Bible depicts. Being a Christian separate from the community of faith is a concept that probably never crossed the minds of those who wrote these books and letters. If they were to comprehend it, I am certain that they would have totally rejected the notion because of how much it runs counter to the central tenets of the faith (e.g. the "body" of Christ).
KrisLK717 1 month ago
This is a great video, keep up the good work !
JesusFreakjmk 1 month ago
Can you please explain why it was necessary to attack a video purely meant, as the description on the video says, "to highlight the difference between Jesus and false religion." Jesus is not religion, he's right. Christianity, the belief system that is based on His life and teachings, is. But Jesus' teachings all pointed to something so much bigger than just a set of beliefs and traditions and moral codes, and as a pastor, you should not only know that, but recognize it.
Natrone011 1 month ago
@Natrone011 The irony is that I did not attack him, but have defended Christianity, the religion, against his attack. Brash, sweeping words of "hate" caused damage to many peoples' faith in Christ this past week.Someone needed to defend Christianity, the religion, as something other than a mere set of moral codes, man made or otherwise. As a pastor, that is my job. Jesus is religion in the best sense. He is the Word of God, God's own self-expression. He is true religion's fulfillment. +pax+
Revfiskj 1 month ago 36
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Natrone011 1 month ago
but the point is that the other guys doesn't distinguish between "true" religion and "false" religion. that's poor hermeneutics on your part: you're analyzing that video on a deeper level to justify what he says, but you ignore the simple level-one analysis, which are the words he uses. one who doesn't have aChristian background just takes the words he says at face value. how would THEY think of the Church after viewing his video? they'd think it's a farce and not worth their time...
nicoXP3712 1 month ago
@Revfiskj I don't want to get into an argument on the internet, but there are a few things I need to point out.
1. To respond to his video mockingly and sarcastically is an attack. Passive-aggressive, yes, but still an attack.
2. Defending Christianity, the religion, instead of sharing the love of Christ, the person, the Savior, and attacking cold, false, meaningless religion (which is what the original video does), is one of the big reasons the Lutheran church, and the church in...
Natrone011 1 month ago 2
@Natrone011 I think you need to do a little reading on the definition of "passive aggressive." In fact, the more I rewrite these three responses (now working 30 min on them), the more I see that you yourself are quite the master at passive aggression (as the textbooks define it.) You have done a masterful job at pushing me into a corner I did not chose, in which am forced to be the "mean" one. Nuancing words into vagueness with unfounded assertions is not rooted in a desire to share ideas.
Revfiskj 1 month ago
@Revfiskj ...general is becoming smaller every year. And this isn't an attack on the Lutheran church from an outsider. I am a Lutheran, and a student at Concordia where I am a DCE student with an emphasis in youth ministry.
3. As a pastor, your job is not to defend cold religion. Your job is to teach why the religion that goes along with the love and warmth of a relationship with Christ is beautiful and meaningful. I would love to see a video from you about the deep meaning of...
Natrone011 1 month ago
@Natrone011 Meanwhile, the statement that the church is shrinking betrays a real ignorance of global Christianity. Where the churches are dying is where we western progressives have abandoned fidelity to the Word of God. Your arguments are not new. They are 200+ years old, and they are the root of the decline of Christian stability in the states.This history can be shown unequivocally. If this is what you are being taught as preparation for teaching our young, it does not bode well.
Revfiskj 1 month ago
@Revfiskj ...religious practices associated with Christianity. Things like communion and the liturgy of worship services and baptism.
Really, no one needed to defend Christianity as something more than moral codes. That is exactly what the original video was all about. Christianity is bigger than a mere set of moral codes, because Jesus is Christianity. But the Christianity that is presented in the media is just moral codes, and that is what was being attacked.
With much love,
Nathan
Natrone011 1 month ago
@Natrone011 I am really not feeling the love. For a student, you take much upon your own shoulders. But you cannot prove that criticism of an idea (in its own medium) is the same as a personal attack. Nor can you prove from Scripture that contending for the faith is not the job of a pastor. Nor can you show that the Scriptures do not teach doctrine and Truth as the source of our love in Christ. Nor can you dig Bethke's attack on "religion" out of the careless whole it dug for itself.
Revfiskj 1 month ago
@Natrone011 Finally, I ask you to make good on your initial claim and refrain from getting into an argument with me on the internet.
Revfiskj 1 month ago
@Revfiskj No Irony whatsoever you did attack him and called him a hypocrite! And what do you mean when ou say baptism saves us?
w
MrOsu9119 1 month ago
@MrOsu9119 As to baptism, that discussions been had in this thread several times already. The show this coming week will take up that topic again as well. But you can just google "worldview everlasting" and "Baptism" and you'll be able to find tons of info on what St. Peter means when *he* says "baptism now saves you."
Revfiskj 1 month ago
@Revfisk So it is apparent that this guy has been hurt by the church more times than can count. Hurt by pastors, hurt by people in the church who claim to know Christ but don't practice what christ was about. Your response as it appears to me seems to be biting, hurtful and spiteful toward someone already broken by the church. You also said that your job as a pastor was to defend Christianity" Where in the bible does it say that pastor's job is to defend the faith. I find no evidence for that.
SecondStage1983 1 month ago
As I see it in the Bible from the inception of the church, the job of a leader in the church is to teach and guide, love and be loved and in some cases correct. I just think your response could have been better towards a broken person. That's how I see how Jesus treated broken people. Sorry if this comes off harsh. I don't mean it to be
SecondStage1983 1 month ago
@SecondStage1983 Really? 1 Timothy 1 for starters. Jude 1:3 teaches that it is every Christians job too. I feel for Bethke. I get what it is to be hurt. That's why I affirmed his love of the Gospel and encouraged him to find a tradition where the theology will give him what he says he is looking for. Not sure how that is an attack, much less spiteful. Is it spiteful to disagree? If so, then why are you disagreeing with me? Is it spite? Very quickly, we are left unable to even speak.
Revfiskj 1 month ago
Further to my last post, I can not say how important it is for the church to confess the mortal sin that dwells in it, while at the same time the saving grace that overcomes all sin that also dwells within the church.
henrka 1 month ago
@henrka Men should confess their sin, to be sure. Men in the Church must by daily drowning and repentance recognize that nothing good lives in us, in our flesh. But this is not the fault of God's religion/Word. The abuse of something does not make the thing itself evil. Rock on.
Revfiskj 1 month ago
@Revfiskj Amen bro, truth is truth is truth
bekisto82 1 month ago
LISTEN TO A REAL POET RESPONSE TO THIS, ON MY CHANNEL POETRYSLAM ARTIST MAROUF HUSSAIN
SuperPoetryslam 1 month ago
Great video, I think there are many people that see church history (crusades, irish terrorism between catholics and protestants, catholic leaders blessing weapons and the country's military during war etc.) and are turned off by religion. Not too mention theological wars, and not just during the reformation but within reformed groups as well. Divisions in the church, politics in the church, etc. I think we need to admit that the church is a fallen institution, sinful but blessed by God.
henrka 1 month ago
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SuperPoetryslam 1 month ago
So, so good. Man. Every part is just gold. Pot callin' the kettle indeed.
Romanstandrd 1 month ago
@nicoXP3712, the word that you cited was not in my vocabulary. Thank you for the addition. However, before you make the assumption that an individual has to "Google" big words, you should be aware that some people actually take time out to learn these things outside of trivial internet uses.
ChelseaHiler143 1 month ago
@ChelseaHiler143 well i'm certainly glad to have helped you expand it. and you know that wasn't my point. my point is that, whether it was your intent or not, your original post sounded so forced with it's language, that the only reasonable conclusion one could draw is that either you're a grammar and vocab snob, or you're forcing it and TRYING to sound smart. neither helps your argument. i'm not deliberately trying to be mean, i'm just saying how it sounded.
nicoXP3712 1 month ago
@ChelseaHiler143 and for the record, if i was mean in earlier posts, i do apologize. i need to wean myself off of doing this while the argument is so enveloped in flame. but yeah, if anything i said hurt your feelings, i am sorry. truly. ... gotta quit letting things like this get to me... something for me to work on, yeah?
nicoXP3712 1 month ago
@LivinTheHylife - my position is far from dogmatic. It's simple: The Bible was pieced together by members of the Roman Catholic church (A.K.A. fallible human beings). Said Bible then becomes the precipice of disagreement that sparks the Protestant Reformation, namely with your beloved Martin Luther (Only one who named his Protestant sect after HIMSELF), which then made it's wayward way into "Christianity" and used to justify devilish acts of "human kindness." Jaded. Not dogmatic.
MrJamala86 1 month ago
@MrJamala86 oy vey... luther didn't name anything, guy. the people did. luther wanted to REFORM the catholic church, not start one of his own.
nicoXP3712 1 month ago
Amen. Props to this video.
MiceCrispy 1 month ago
Religion = Instruction on how to be happy
MiceCrispy 1 month ago
Religion = Politics.
ConLawArtist 1 month ago
Friend, I think you are missing his point. As it says in James, perfect religion is to take care of orphans and widows. He is referring to abolishing religion as it is viewed today. He is referring to abolishing religion as the Pharisee's saw it. He is saying it isnt about going to a building on sunday, it isnt about traditions, it isnt about position or self-righteousness. Its about LOVE and taking care of the needy and saving the lost. Everyone is missing the poets point here.
Skellum82 1 month ago 2
@nicoXP3712, I apologize for having a legitimate vocabulary and the ability to use words you probably do not understand. A dictionary may be useful for you.
ChelseaHiler143 1 month ago
i really shouldn't be surprised that you'd try to attack my intelligence -- for the record, i DID make it into graduate school so i can't be THAT stupid. had to take the same GRE as everyone else. no, my argument is that you're trying to puff yourself up by using language that you looked up on google tryin to somehow objectify and legitimize your claim. you want a good word? opprobrious. and i WILL cite that i did look that up in a thesaurus but now i've learned something today.
nicoXP3712 1 month ago
"What you resent is Evangelicalism, and I'm afraid you're still stuck in the middle of it."
Priceless.
raoulduke25 1 month ago 31
@Revfiskj Hi - I enjoyed your response video. While I agree with most of what you had to say, I still think the root of the problem is one man's definition of the word "religion". (Yes, I know what Webster calls it, and what Scripture calls it to for that matter). This leads me to what you said about Evangelicalism.. can you please clarify your statement? Please help me understand what it is you imply.
helosix 1 month ago
Nobody rose from the dead after 3 days, in case any of you actually believe it!
fizzizzizzix 1 month ago
4:38 = the heart of the objection
ApologiaTV 1 month ago
Love this video and totally agree
m4killed 1 month ago
"All that’s necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to stand by and do nothing".... You stood up for the truth!!
About the 100+ moronic comments, I say this:
"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds."
TheSonOfThorsSpear 1 month ago
Pastor Fisk, great response and use of scripture! Keep up the good fight for God's Truth!
karlfehn 1 month ago
not Lutheran, but loved the response
XSC3 1 month ago
Forget both videos just for a few seconds and ask yourself theses questions if you are a Christian.
1. How much time have you spent talking WITH Jesus today.
2, How many of you can honestly say you have got through the day without sinning? If you can honestly say yes to this, then give me your address and I will post you the rock to throw at this guy.
A question to Revjski....Why not just email Jefferson and challenge him respectfully if you were concerned about his video.
kairostutorials 1 month ago
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kairostutorials 1 month ago
I once took a bath in bleach. Still not as white as you.
ihavelotsoflolz 1 month ago
I hope you die
tastelikekevin 1 month ago
@tastelikekevin that's funny, cuz i don't wish that on you until you realize that Christ is Lord. unlike you, i care.
nicoXP3712 1 month ago
i have to say your very religious but religion is junk JESUS is a relationship noty a religion sorry but i agree with him and you dissing someone who is against religion i think if it wasnt true i wouldnt have been convixted by the holy spirit and felt that! its true BAPTISM does not SAVE you it shows the world you are a follower of Christ! i belive he is a spirit led man who is changing the world through the holy spirit YOOOOOOOOOOOO
stewiepraize 1 month ago
@stewiepraize . . . Baptism doesn't save you? Tell that to St. Peter, who taught exactly the opposite, when he wrote "Baptism now saves you."
1946gnuguy 1 month ago
I am Lutheran. I'm lead to believe you are as well. I know we tend to look at things in a more intelligent manner, and I'm glad you saw these videos. Its no wonder people look down so much on Christianity these days- because terrible examples like that kid arise, and it honestly embarrasses me. Even though rap is generally illiterate and unintelligent (imso), a video about the Gospel in the same manner doesn't need to be.
NicholasGreen91 1 month ago
This is great. So many kids my age and even older eat up this guy's rhymsical way of saying things. Really read the Bible before you say these kinds of things, people! Come on.
Yo, shout out to the Lutherans out there. whaaaat
BriannaNann 1 month ago 22