This is the biggest lie of christianity if one cannot lose salvation, why then is the fear of God the beginning of wisdom? I mean then what is there to fear? Gal 6:7-10 hebrews 4:11-15 hebrews 6:1-8 hebrews 10 26-31 2 peter 19-21
@MrUrosSrb I am saying that One can lose salvation, the bigggest lie is the way these guys profess that you cannot !notice they use very little scripture to "prove" their lies .
@MrUrosSrb one verse does not a doctrine make, you should read all the verses I ;posted above which make it clear once saved always saved is luciferian lies!
@1allstarman Being saved, ie.being pulled from the dangerous icy waters of a life of sin, then what do you do ? spend the rest of your days clinging to the device that saved you from death , hanging over the precipice of danger ? or do you move away from the precarious perch and build a life in the spirit?
@excu first you should try a bible written and translated in english,then you should read the whole letter of eph,and at least the first half of eph 4:30 And do not greive the holy spirit of God ,in whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. this verse is clearly (as well as the rest of the letter) a warning against improper beahvior.if your premise is correct, why even warn us against improiper behavior? also do you have another verse that supports your assumption?
@excusia you are incorrrect, why not toss the king james , and try reading the whole letter . your verse in romans comes from the old testament and should be read as this ."and Abraham believed God, and took it to be his righteous merit" in other words the belief was not righteousness, but Abe believed the promise of unlimited progeny was his reward (or merit) for his life of righteousness, I have been around, I am not buying your satanic ancient mystery school of babylon . doctrines
@1allstarman get a bible you can understand, not that corrupted, archaic more than 300 words now have different meanings , derived from documents known to be frought with error at the time of its publication kjv.the revised standard version is close to the truth, add the schocken bible and your on your way!
@1allstarman I am not arguing that God WANTS us to engage in sinful beahvior so to say that a letter prohibits bad behavior is not even the argument. The argument is can that bad behavior condemn us to hell after believing in Christ. I notice you could not even come close to explaining the verse I gave you. I will never read the modern bible versions that remove whole verses, remove the blood, hell, and claim that the the son is not equal to the father. Conversation over.
God is the Savior of all men, especially those who believe- Paul in 1 Timothy 4:10... That's like saying track is for everyone, especially for those who like to run. Jesus is the Savior of all, especially for those who trust in Him. God's grace & mercy will win out over everything else in the end, after His judgment. Those who reject God will face Him on judgment day but God will not write them off forever.
But there are some of you that BELIEVE NOT. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that BELIEVED NOT, and who should BETRAY HIM.
Oh and by the way Judas repented and still wen to hell!
Matthew 27:3
Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, REPENTED HIMSELF, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders,
i agree with the panel but their teaching is very very weak. they don't interpret scripture at all but simply use it to give examples. They need to do more homework. see my video on Hebrews Chapter 6. I give you a thorough explanation of the text!! Here's the link:
If a Christian is in bed with a whore committing adultery, and during the very act of intercourse a stray bullet from the gun of a drive-by shooter strikes him in the head and kills him instantly, will he go to heaven or hell?
If a Christian "forgive not every one his brother their trespasses" will he go to heaven or hell?
If a Christian "shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost" will he go to heaven or hell?
Jesus said he would never leave us or forsake us and I believe him.
My own dad was in and out of my life BUT God is not like this.
I also cannot believe you can be saved at 5pm and lost at 6pm then repent and be saved again by 8p then lost by 9p then process starts over again the next day! This is crazy thinking. If I wasn't responsible for my salvation in the first place. How can I lose it?
People that fall away never were really saved to begin with, what they had was a FALSE CONVERSION!
1 Peter 1: 5. Who are kept by the power of God through faith
Putting away faith is shipwreck! 1 Timothy 1: 19
Jude 1: 5. I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not. 6. And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
@ghostownaproach in Timothy it also says that If we believe not he abideth faithfully because he cant deny himself.In Jude it says that they were destroyed not lost salvation. and about Angels,we are not Angels so that doesnt apply to us.
Hebrews 6:4-6: Is a glorius, yet sobering truth, for Scripture indicates it is possible to wander away once too often. You cannot lose your salvation, but you can leave it because God won’t force eternal life on anyone. What can separate us from the love of God? Neither height nor depth nor principalities nor power nor things present nor things to come. No outside force can separate you from the love of God which is in Christ. Only you can.
"Eternal Security/Once Saved, Always Saved," is a thoroughly unscriptural doctrine. Read Jude. Read 2 Peter 2. Read Romans 11. Read James 5. Read Matthew 7. Read Revelation 3. Read those portions of scripture. Read them w/out any bias. And seriously, go read those portions of scripture for yourself.
@woogetyboogety You have taken everyone of those passages out of context. You never base your doctrine on isolated hard to interpret passages. Take hebrews 6:4-6 most armenian only quote 4, but 5 and 6 make it clear if it were saying you can lose you salvation you won't ever gain it back, but do not fear verse 9 the writer makes it clear he was not addressing 4-6 to saved but unsaved. John 6:37: "all that the father give me come to me and all who come to me shall in no wise be cast out"
@kooler2004 I'm not armenian btw, not that you said I was, but just clarifying. A/w, Heb. 6 is clearly talking about Believer's. There is no way to try to say that it's not. No way at all.
@woogetyboogety Read verse 9 then read the entire bible. The majority of the bible says you cannot lose salvation. So does the bible contradict it self. By no means, What sin can I commit to lose my salvation? Does jesus being an advocate for our sins not count? So if I could wake up one morning and I have lost my salvation ( if that were true) then you do realize that heb 6 out of context would say I can't gain it back. I read each scripture in context of passage and entire bible.
@kooler2004@kooler2004 I read verse 9, as well as the whole book of Hebrews. Neither it, nor the rest of the Bible, ever say that you can't reject your salvation. Tell me this, did Adam and Eve have eternal life in them? Did they lose it? The scriptures verify over and over and over again that a person can be lost, after being born again? What about the prodigal son that Jesus Himself taught about? It plainly says, after already being "In the Father's House," that he was lost, and then found.
what you are saying is not biblical. Remember bud, just because you work at a church does not make you right. Also the bible teaches that all christians are to be ministers. The word ministry means doing good for others. Also what does the word eternal life mean? Ever ask your self that it means life that is never ending or never ceasing to exist. So if I can lose my salvation then it was never eternal life and God has lied.
@kooler2004 Btw, I never said that being a full-time minister makes me always right. Yes, all Believers have been placed in the ministry of reconciliation. What does eternal life mean? It means that the life that enters into someone upon being born again, is in and of itself eternal. But, a person can still reject the life that is eternal. Not God's fault. Nothing wrong with the life within them. But they simply choose to reject Him/that life at some point.
more info for you verse 9 of heb 6 makes a shift in context according to the verse every verse before it was talking to people who are not in christ every verse after it in the contextual passage is addressed to believers. The bible teaches clearly (read 1st john in context) that if you claim to be saved and then reject God completely then you were never saved to begin with.
@kooler2004 I disagree man. All of 2 Peter 2 and the book of Jude are about people who were in Christ and then rejected them. And what about 1 Tim. 4, that says that many shall DEPART from the faith (not yelling, emphasizing) How can you depart, if you we're never "apart?" Jesus Himself said that no one that was His could be plucked out of His hands, but somehow Judas managed to get away. The thing is, He wasn't plucked out, but chose to "jump" out. Same for Believer's today.
@woogetyboogety Jesus knew from the beginning that Judas did not believe and that he would betray him. This is not analogous to believers today as you claim.
@kooler2004 Just so you know, I'm not an Armenian. Also, you need to let the scriptures interpret the scriptures. You can't read them w/out any pre conceived doctrinal bias. Did you go and actually read those portions of scripture w/out any commentary or anything like that?
1 john 2:28 has no reference to losing salvation but rather encourages spiritually immature to remain confident and not be swept away. Spiritually immature people are ones who either are saved or just claim to be a christian, and this is where your geting confused. You can't lose what you never had to begin with. John 10:27-28 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand"
@kooler2004 That's soo out of context it's not funny. Not one times does it say that. You can't read things into scriptures. It plainly says "If an BRETHREN errs from the truth,and he converts back, then a SINNER was converted back." (caps are not yelling, just emphasis)
"Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or danger, or sword?As it is written, "For your sake we are being killed all the day long; we are regarded as sheep to be slaughtered." No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us.For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, continued
Ask your self what eternal means. It means never ending so if you can lose it is it eternal? by no means. Salvation is by grace through faith. If I could lose my salvation that means something I can do makes me lose it and something I do can gain my salvation back, and that sir is works, and according to ephesians 2:8 the bible makes it clear salvation is a free gift not something you can earn.
@kooler2004 And I by no means believe in gaining or lose salvation by our works, at all. I, as a full-time minister, teach/preach more on Grace than anything else, by far I believe that you cannot lose through bad works what you did not gain through good works, but you can consciously choose to reject your salvation. A gift can be rejected just as it can be received.
Is it possible for redeemed people to lose their salvation? The Bible says, "No!" One who is saved "has everlasting life, and ... is passed from death unto life" (John 5:24). (Romans 8:28-39) (Jude 24) (Philippians 1:6). Even true Christians can sin, (Psalm 51:12). A failure to grow spiritually can also rob us of the confidence that we are God's children (2 Peter 1:9). But anyone indwelt by the Holy Spirit is secure eternally (Ephesians 1:14).
i beleave first lost, once saved, and if you will keep sinning you will still die in sin, even after you think you are saved, and you keep on sinning till the end then you may never have ben saved in the first place, if we think its ok to sin willfuly after and still go to heaven we are wrong, the bible says jesus always will pull his people back to him, just my understanding, if im wrong im sorry god bless you.
Ezekiel 18:24 But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, [and] doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked [man] doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.
If the proposed justification for these four grown-up men's assumed eternal credit was not so deeply grim, I would have chuckled and moved to another Youtube page. However, it strikes me as intensely bizarre and egocentric, that seemingly intelligent modern people can justify with any dignity, that a torturous human sacrifice would have a beneficial supernatural influence on their personal well-being. What other atrocities will they tolerate and glorify?
amen amen brothers. We, who are born of God are secured, made new creatures that love Him and want to live for Him and with Him, get out of sin. God's grace saves you, God's grace keeps out. Those, who are born of God will endure to the end by God's power.
The first principles of the doctrine of Christ are hard to leave for most believers. Hebrews says, "this we will do if God permits." Heb.6:3 There should be no debate on the security of the believer, except for those who are stuck on the first principles. What can be lost, is the inherited rights of a believer. That's why Hebrews then tells us to be "followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises." Hebrews 6:12
People lose their car keys and wallets, but no man loses his salvation. However, once can surely depart from the faith and FORFEIT their salvation in the Lord. The New Testament if full of scriptures that support this.
This take on eternal security surly makes provision for the flesh rather than aiding the saint in mortifying it.
Another thing, it's interesting that when I hear people like Todd attempt to "teach" the "doctrine" of eternal security, they fail to highlight the scriptures that make it plan that it is essential to live a HOLY life in the Lord. They only talk about people not "losing" their salvation no matter what happens.I mean why did Jesus tell us to STAY on the straight and narrow path?
Anyone ever heard the term: Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater? Just because some '"christians" say they can live any way they want DOES NOT:
1.) MEAN THEY'RE CHRISTIANS
2.) MEAN THEY'RE RIGHT
3.) MEAN THEY REPRESENT EVERY PROPONENT'S OPINION
4.) MEAN THAT THE TRUE DOCTRINE OF ETERNAL SECURITY IS NEGATED.
People rightly get concerned over 'false believers" who merely 'signed a card' or 'invited Jesus in their hearts' But to assume they were saved in the first place is crazy.
10) Its all about repenting, reforming, converting to the perfect standard of keeping Yahwehs Laws and all religions have missed this basic point because Satan deceived all of them Revelation 12:9.
9) Unrepentant sinners will receive death. Why should Yahweh grant visas to anyone who He knows has refused to keep His Laws? That would lead to greater chaos than what we are experiencing now on the earth. Repenters who overcome sin (Rev 21:7) will receive eternal life and nothing that you or anyone says can change that. If you want eternal life keep the commandments Mat 19:17.
8) That will lead to death not eternal life. Infact very soon these three religions will lead us toward that final outcome nuclear devastation and people will then realize that the wages of sin (breaking Yahwehs Laws is Death). Yahshua said that He will forgive those who recognize Him as the Savior (Jews refuse to do this) and follow His law keeping example by repent of our sinful ways, not those who continue in sin.
7) They say you can do this because their savior kept the laws for them so now they can eat pork, buzzards, or worms. They now have the right to keep the idolatrous and pagan festivals as their way of life and culture instead of the Feast Days of Yahweh which the true Savior kept. In short they do not believe the true Savior. Regardless of what they teach Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are all doing the same thing: Disobeying Yahweh!
6) Christians teach that it is impossible to keep the laws of Yahweh and since it is impossible, dont even make law keeping our way of life. Instead make sinning (breaking which ever of Yahwehs Laws you dont like like the Sabbath or pork eating pick a church that keeps the subset of laws that fits your liking) your way of life. Dont make keeping the Laws of Yahweh your way of life make sinning your way of life.
5) My friend Yahshua the true Savior was the only man who lived perfectly BECAUSE HE KEPT YAHWEHS LAWS HE DID NOT BREAK THEM. He encouraged us in Mat 5:48 to do the same and BECOME perfect like He was by obeying every word that proceeds from the mouth of the Father (Mat 4:4). Instead of following His example and practice keeping Yahwehs Laws like He did I John 2:6.
4) The Moslems send their prophet up to the mountain and got a completely new book and claimed that Yahweh changed His Laws and His Name on His last visit to earth. I am reserving front row seats to see them tell Moses and all the prophets that they dont have to keep the Sabbath and Feast Days any more. They are converting uneducated Christians by the droves (especially in prisons) by pointing out the fact that the so called New Testament is riddled with mistranslations and contradictions.
3) The Christians twists the already mistranslated words of the apostles to claim that their god and newly named savior Jesus Christ nailed the laws of Yahweh to the cross. Most Christians are not even aware that the word JESUS came into existence only 500 years ago and that the apostles never heard that word AT ANY TIME IN THEIR ENTIRE LIVES.
2) They like all other religions dont understand that if you add (traditions) or take away (His Name or any of His commandments) from the law you are breaking it Deut 4:2. Thats why Yahshua said about them Was not the Law given through Mosheh (Moses)? And yet none of you keep the Law!
1) Mankind can only have eternal life by living by the every word that proceeds from the mouth of Yahweh. Nothing or no one can change that Mat 5:18. Christianity, Judaism, and Islam have all strayed from the Laws of Yahweh. They have their own rational for doing away with the laws of Yahweh. The Jews rejected the true savior Yahshua like they did all the other prophets and claim that they need their traditions which they added to the law and which Yahshua resoundingly rejected Mark 7:7
Work out your salvation with fear and trembling because GOD IS AT WORK IN YOU. (If God's not at work in someone they aren't saved, no matter what they claim.) Philippians 2:12, 13.
Work out your salvation with fear and trembling BECAUSE YOU ARE going to heaven, NOT TO TRY AND GET THERE.
What is God's 1st commandment?:
John 6:29 Trust in Jesus. Not in jesus and yourself. In Jesus. True disciples continue and lalways produce at least some fruit. Love begets love. Love ya friend.
God calls us to live holy lives. But this is evidence of salvation, not the reason for it. Trusting in one's own good works is a damnable heresy! Galatians 1:8,9. There is NO SUCH THING as salvation without sanctification following; similary, there is no such thing as salvation by works, or any combination.
Jesus said If YOU LOVE ME, keep my commandments John 14:15,21,23/John 15:14 He didn't say keep my commandements and THEN you'll love me or THEN YOU'LL be saved!
God saved us for HIS own glory. And He saved us to be conformed to the image of His Son. As always, Satan dwells in the extremes:
1.) He either gives a "gospel" of easy believism that produces NO fruit (DEAD), OR
2.) He gives a "gospel" that entails people KEEPING THE LAW TO GET SAVED. There is NOTHING new under the sun.
There is NO such thing as a Christian who is void of works or is living in sin comfortably. Neither is their a Christian who trusts in his own works to get to heaven.
Ephesians 2:8,9 For BY GRACE have you been saved through faith. And this is NOT YOUR OWN DOING; IT IS THE GIFT OF GOD, NOT A RESULT OF WORKS, SO THAT NO ONE MAY BOAST.
Titus 3:5 He saved us NOT BECAUSE OF WORKS DONE BY US IN RIGHTEOUSNESS BUT ACCORDING TO HIS OWN MERCY
It's true that faith with NO works is dead. (James 2). But WORKS ARE the EVIDENCE THAT WE HAVE SAVING FAITH. Works are the FRUIT, not the Root.
In Gal. 5:22- Paul lists the FRUITS OF THE SPIRIT, not fruits of works.
Rom. 10:1-4 - Brothers, my heart's desire and prayer to God for them (Jews) is that they may be saved. For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for GOD, BUT NOT ACCORDING TO KNOWLEDGE. FOR, BEING IGNORANT OF GOD'S RIGHTEOUSNESS, and seeking to establish THEIR OWN, they did not submit to God's rightouesness. For Christ is THE END OF THE LAW FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS to everyone who believes
Rom 9:30-33 Why did the Jews miss salvation? Because they sought it as though it were by works! vs. 32
Romans 3:19, 20- Now we know that whatever the law says it speaks to those under the law, SO THAT EVERY MOUTH MAY BE STOPPED, and the whole world may be held accountable to GOD. FOR BY THE WORKS OF THE LAW NO HUMAN BEING SHALL BE JUSTIFIED IN HIS SIGHT, SINCE THROUGH THE LAW COMES THE KNOWLEDGE OF SIN.
Romans 3:23,24, - for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of GOD, being Justified FREELY AS A GIFT, through the REDEMPTION THAT IS IN CHRIST JESUS.
Gal. 2:16- "yet we know that a person IS NOT JUSTIFIED BY THE WORKS OF THE LAW BUT THROUGH FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, IN ORDER TO BE JUSTIFIED BY FAITH IN CHRIST, NOT BY WORKS OF THE LAW, because by WORKS OF THE LAW NO FLESH SHALL BE JUSTIFIED.
Gal. 2:21 I don't nullify the grace of GOD, for if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for NO PURPOSE.
Gal. 1:8,9 - .."If anyone is preaching another gospel, let him be damned to hell."
Hi jaybramer what is so evil about loving your neighbor as yourself Lev 19:18, loving your enemies Ex 23:4, Mat 5:44, not accepting a bribe Ex 23:8, not committing adultery Ex 20:14, keeping the Sabbath holy Ex 20:8-10, not committing abortions (murder) Mat 19:18, and Loving Yahweh with all your heart Deut 6:5, to name of few of these laws or spiritual duties you call evil. What is evil about living by the every word of Yahweh as the Savior commands us to do? Mat 4:4 (Deut 8:3).
Hi jaybramer, you said "If YOU have to keep your faith, and in order to do that you need to perform your spiritual duties, than indirectly you HAVE to perform to keep your faith to keep your salvation. That is evil." The Savior said If you will enter into eternal life keep the laws of Yahweh (Mat 19:17) They called the Savior evil to, but wow to those who call righteousness evil and evil righteousness. Remember His shed blood is for repenters not sinners.
Friend, I think you gravely misunderstand me. I do work out my salvation with fear and trembling BECAUSE I am a new creation, BECAUSE I am a child of GOD, and BECAUSE I am going to heaven. That's MILES away from doing those things TO GET to heaven. It's interesting you mentioned Mat. 19:17 as proof that Jesus "taught salvation by keeping the law." In Mat. 19:25 the disciples said, "who then can be saved?" Jesus said, "With man IT'S IMPOSSIBLE," BUT WITH GOD ALL THINGS ARE.
Hi jaybramer. I take it that you would have no problems rooming with a serial killer or a serial rapist who came to your Church and was saved yesterday. I suppose that you would have no problems having the rapist baby sit your children. The argument you present is the reason Islam is winning over Christians by the droves. Christianity has come to represent a faith without substance and righteous behavior. Yahshua said go and sin no more. Lets teach what He taught.
Hi jaybramer. It is easy to get a no laws salvation Christian upset; just read them some scriptures that clearly state that the Laws must be kept. If you continue reading these scriptures they will send in the police or the troops to stop this evil teaching of law keeping. This is what all the prophets, apostles and the Savior Himself had to contend with. The day is coming when the law haters will not have power over the law keepers. Yahshua commands us to repent of sinning.
First of all, you haven't even met me and you've summed me up and my 37 years of existence in the phrase "no laws Christian." That's quite amazing, if not insulting to say the least. What I'm saying to you is that there is NO salvation without works as a result. That's called antinomianism (no-law). It's a terrible abuse of grace, but SO IS ADDING LAW TO IT! THAT'S LEGALISM!
Answer: Hebrews 10:26 If we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins; but - fiery indignation which shall devour the adversaries. The wages of sin is death Rom 6:23. This is why sinners will not enter the Kingdom ICor6:9; only those who overcome sin Rev 21:7. The sacrifice of the Savior is for repenters not sinners, so Repent because the Kingdom of Yahweh is at hand Matt 4:17.
Amen! Thank you so much for posting these scriptures. While I do believe there is place for the doctrine of eternal security, I think that this spin on it is grossly wrong, it produces dead fruit, (e.g. stagnation of growth, uncheck, up repented sin, wounded faith), it is merely a doctrine of convenience. It is interesting that out of all the times I have heard pastors preach this, they never preach on the importance of resisting sin and living holiness within the same setting, hummm....
The problem I have with this is that it is totally one sided. What I mean by this is that I have gone to three services out in Silver springs and have heard Todd get at this doctrine little by letter and then he did the sermon there on Eternal Security, during the course of the sermon and even when I have heard him allude to this notion of eternal security, he skips over a boat load of scriptures that suggest one can FORFEIT their relationship and salvation with Christ Bcause of unrepented sin.
For example, Matthew 24:13, among others makes it plain in saying:
10At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13but he who stands firm to the end will be saved.
It is not necessarily the persecution that we must indure in our personal lives, but is is also talking about enduring sin-overcoming sin in our bodies.
There are so many wolves out there who many still believe are men and women of God, but they have wounded the sheep, distorted the word of God, the Gospel of the Christ and have uprooted whole house holds and because many believe this whole "once saved always saved", "I don't have to exhibit the fruit of the holy spirit, but commit as much sin just as long as I have said the sinner's prayer because I am locked in" belief many Christian are afraid to flee wolves, which is what the bible tells us
I get so frustrated everytime I hear these preachers preach the doctrine of eternity and they just stay at the part that says, "if you surrender to christ, there is nothing you do and there is nothing no one can say to cause you to loose your salvation," but I never never hear them talk about the believer exhibiting the fruit of the spirit, which is very important because it is the fruit that we will be identified by. If it is of God, we are of him, if it is of ourselves, then we are of satan.
Well, isn't that salvation by works? Can't Jesus merely be saying that "the proof of salvation is enduring"? In John 8:31 Jesus says, if you continue in My Word, THEN you are my disciples indeed? Does that mean we can NEVER call ourselves disciples until we're dead? I get saved at age 12, but I can't call myself a Christian until after I've passed the test of enduring? Ridiculous. Jesus is saying TRUE disciples continue in my word. Look at 1John 2:19.
Christians work out their salvation with fear and trembling BECAUSE they're going to heaven, not to try and get there. That's why it's so important to understand that salvation is forever. So is the new birth. So is the indwelling Spirit. Thus, if a "believer" is living in sin, how are they not being disciplined by the LORD? How, can they be at peace? How can the Spirit not be convicting them. It's been said that sometimes Christians fit for heaven are no longer fit for the earth.
Sometimes sin gets so bad that GOD takes HIS kids home "early" as it were, like in 1 Corinthians 11. He strickened some with sickness and death "so that they would not be condemned with the rest of the world." If He's willing to do that for them, why wouldn't he do that for everybody. Look at the power of Romans 5:9,10. When we were at our worst, GOD gave Jesus. He gave an infinite price when we were children of the devil, to secure a home for us in heaven. Is He going to go less for us now?
Notice too, it's the DEATH of Jesus that saved us. HOW MUCH MORE will we be saved through HIS LIFE? Jesus is now alive and intereceding for us (Romans 8:34, Hebrew 7:25). If a 'dead' savior can save us, how much more the risen savior, who always intercedes for us, who never prays anything but GOD's will, and ALWAYS has his prayer answered? To think that Christians could lose their salvation is egregious against GOD as Father, Jesus as intercessor, and the Holy Spirit...the infinite power.
It's to say GOD would give HIS children LESS grace than He originally did when were satan's kids, He would not be willing to take His chidlren's souls (which would at that point cost Him nothing) after already giving an INFINITE price when they were still satan's kids, it's to say Jesus' prayers could actually go unanswered, and, the power of the HOLY Spirit is not enough to keep you saved. Friends, if GOD the FATHER, Jesus the Priest, and the Spirit can't KEEP you, good luck doing it yourself.
Lastly, Rom. 5:2 says we stand in "GRACE." Not performance. How can we merit staying in unmerited favor? If I truly am a Christian, I l want to please GOD, even though I fail everyday (1 John 3:3). I could backslide and incur my Father's discipline, which may involve injury, sickness, or death, all for my own good. That's not the way I want to go out, you? But, to say we pursue sanctification to 'STAY SAVED" is salvation by works...GOD HATES IT. Run the race because you are what you are.
I should warn you that you are isogeting the text by reading your traditional view that you have been indoctrinated into by the institutional church, you are reading that into the scriptures and it is distorting your perspective of these scriptures you have listed and what the whole Bible has to say about the topic of "eternal security.'
It also sounds like you have a MacArthur study bible too. I thought I heard some of is commentary here. He is a good preacher, but he also has a tendency
... to isoget his classical view on certain topics into the scriptures. I have a McArthur Study Bible too, but I have notices that he reads his traditional view based on the traditions of his denomination into certain scriptures it sounds like you have done the same here.
Follow God, not man, not tradition--you will end up like the Pharisees if you do...
Tell me, how can you misinterpret John 10:27-29 WITHOUT ISOGETING? IT'S AS PLAIN AS DAY! As a matter of fact, NONE of the other scriptures ever talk about savlation being lost. You must "assume" and isogete that certain people were saved and that certain subjects are indeed talking about loss of salvation, even though they NEVER use that term. Talk about Isogeting!
Unfortunately, it is YOU who are isogeting. Answer me this: How are you going to get to heaven one day? By working to get there? I'm going to get there by Jesus and Jesus alone. If you think salvaiton can be lost, it's not GOD who kicks you out, and it's not the devil who steals it, it must be you. If YOU have to keep your faith, and in order to do that you need to perform your spiritual duties, than indirectly you HAVE to perform to keep your faith to keep your salvation. That is evil.
Philippians 2:12b-13 "...work out your salvation with fear and trembling; for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure"
This is the biggest lie of christianity if one cannot lose salvation, why then is the fear of God the beginning of wisdom? I mean then what is there to fear? Gal 6:7-10 hebrews 4:11-15 hebrews 6:1-8 hebrews 10 26-31 2 peter 19-21
1allstarman 1 month ago
@1allstarman Well u can fear of losing rewards,you can fear of losing your health, life because of your sin,and many more.
MrUrosSrb 1 week ago
@MrUrosSrb I am saying that One can lose salvation, the bigggest lie is the way these guys profess that you cannot !notice they use very little scripture to "prove" their lies .
1allstarman 6 days ago
@1allstarman OSAS is true.You cant lose salvation.You should read John 10:28. God Bless.
MrUrosSrb 6 days ago
@MrUrosSrb one verse does not a doctrine make, you should read all the verses I ;posted above which make it clear once saved always saved is luciferian lies!
1allstarman 6 days ago
@1allstarman once saved we are required to live a life in the spirit of christ .
1allstarman 6 days ago
@1allstarman Being saved, ie.being pulled from the dangerous icy waters of a life of sin, then what do you do ? spend the rest of your days clinging to the device that saved you from death , hanging over the precipice of danger ? or do you move away from the precarious perch and build a life in the spirit?
1allstarman 6 days ago
@1allstarman
Ephesians 4:30
And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
Show me in the bible that the seal of the Holy Spirit can be broken with sin. SHOW ME, don't just tell me.
excusia 13 hours ago
@excu first you should try a bible written and translated in english,then you should read the whole letter of eph,and at least the first half of eph 4:30 And do not greive the holy spirit of God ,in whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. this verse is clearly (as well as the rest of the letter) a warning against improper beahvior.if your premise is correct, why even warn us against improiper behavior? also do you have another verse that supports your assumption?
1allstarman 55 minutes ago
@1allstarman Romans 4:5
But to him that WORKETH NOT, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
I don't just have one or two verses, trust me, I can make it rain in your inbox if you need the evidence.
excusia 13 hours ago
@excusia you are incorrrect, why not toss the king james , and try reading the whole letter . your verse in romans comes from the old testament and should be read as this ."and Abraham believed God, and took it to be his righteous merit" in other words the belief was not righteousness, but Abe believed the promise of unlimited progeny was his reward (or merit) for his life of righteousness, I have been around, I am not buying your satanic ancient mystery school of babylon . doctrines
1allstarman 49 minutes ago
@1allstarman get a bible you can understand, not that corrupted, archaic more than 300 words now have different meanings , derived from documents known to be frought with error at the time of its publication kjv.the revised standard version is close to the truth, add the schocken bible and your on your way!
1allstarman 46 minutes ago
@1allstarman I am not arguing that God WANTS us to engage in sinful beahvior so to say that a letter prohibits bad behavior is not even the argument. The argument is can that bad behavior condemn us to hell after believing in Christ. I notice you could not even come close to explaining the verse I gave you. I will never read the modern bible versions that remove whole verses, remove the blood, hell, and claim that the the son is not equal to the father. Conversation over.
excusia 20 minutes ago
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God is the Savior of all men, especially those who believe- Paul in 1 Timothy 4:10... That's like saying track is for everyone, especially for those who like to run. Jesus is the Savior of all, especially for those who trust in Him. God's grace & mercy will win out over everything else in the end, after His judgment. Those who reject God will face Him on judgment day but God will not write them off forever.
whatthehellbook . com
whatthehellbook 5 months ago
Amen.
enslaved2God 6 months ago
CAN YOU LOSE YOUR SALVATION ? ....... GEE, I DONT KNOW ? DID JUDAS LOSE HIS SALVATION ?
DL261 6 months ago
@DL261 propably not,because he wasnt saved,what saved men would do that against Jesus..plz..
MrUrosSrb 6 months ago
This should seal this argument forever.OSAS and no other way.
MrUrosSrb 6 months ago
@DL261 We don't know if he did nor not. His betrayal was sin, just like any other sin. God will judge Judas, not you or I.
whatthehellbook 5 months ago
@DL261 Judas was a devil from the beginning
THERAPTURECOMES 2 weeks ago
@DL261 Judas was never saved!
John 6:64
But there are some of you that BELIEVE NOT. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that BELIEVED NOT, and who should BETRAY HIM.
Oh and by the way Judas repented and still wen to hell!
Matthew 27:3
Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, REPENTED HIMSELF, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders,
excusia 13 hours ago
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I WANT EVERYONE ON EARTH to KNOW the TRUTH about the Unforgivable Sin, which is Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit: It's PERFECTLY FALSE.
I'll PROVE IT.
In John 20:21, 23, our dearly beloved Jesus Christ our savior CLEARLY says this:
If you FORGIVE the sins of ANY, they are FORGIVEN; if you RETAIN the sins of ANY, they are RETAINED.
If all of you religious hypocrites completely deny, LOOK IT UP YOUR SINFUL SELVES.
I hope to the good lord with all my heart that this greatly helps.
God Bless
MagicMaker7 6 months ago
this message is awesome.
85dancamacho 7 months ago
calvinistic teachings which is not biblical
Tetalestai 9 months ago
See for thorough explanation of Hebrews 6. just type you tube before the following text: watch?v=IdDKRHs2kEI
reallybiggrizzly 9 months ago
i agree with the panel but their teaching is very very weak. they don't interpret scripture at all but simply use it to give examples. They need to do more homework. see my video on Hebrews Chapter 6. I give you a thorough explanation of the text!! Here's the link:
reallybiggrizzly 9 months ago
If a Christian is in bed with a whore committing adultery, and during the very act of intercourse a stray bullet from the gun of a drive-by shooter strikes him in the head and kills him instantly, will he go to heaven or hell?
If a Christian "forgive not every one his brother their trespasses" will he go to heaven or hell?
If a Christian "shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost" will he go to heaven or hell?
wezand2 9 months ago
Jesus said he would never leave us or forsake us and I believe him.
My own dad was in and out of my life BUT God is not like this.
I also cannot believe you can be saved at 5pm and lost at 6pm then repent and be saved again by 8p then lost by 9p then process starts over again the next day! This is crazy thinking. If I wasn't responsible for my salvation in the first place. How can I lose it?
People that fall away never were really saved to begin with, what they had was a FALSE CONVERSION!
NotFlaking 1 year ago 2
1 Peter 1: 5. Who are kept by the power of God through faith
Putting away faith is shipwreck! 1 Timothy 1: 19
Jude 1: 5. I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not. 6. And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
ghostownaproach 1 year ago
@ghostownaproach in Timothy it also says that If we believe not he abideth faithfully because he cant deny himself.In Jude it says that they were destroyed not lost salvation. and about Angels,we are not Angels so that doesnt apply to us.
MrUrosSrb 6 months ago
Hebrews 6:4-6: Is a glorius, yet sobering truth, for Scripture indicates it is possible to wander away once too often. You cannot lose your salvation, but you can leave it because God won’t force eternal life on anyone. What can separate us from the love of God? Neither height nor depth nor principalities nor power nor things present nor things to come. No outside force can separate you from the love of God which is in Christ. Only you can.
Caboramage 1 year ago
Oh, also read Heb. 6, and Heb. 10, and 1 John, (like 1 John chp. 2:28)
woogetyboogety 1 year ago
"Eternal Security/Once Saved, Always Saved," is a thoroughly unscriptural doctrine. Read Jude. Read 2 Peter 2. Read Romans 11. Read James 5. Read Matthew 7. Read Revelation 3. Read those portions of scripture. Read them w/out any bias. And seriously, go read those portions of scripture for yourself.
woogetyboogety 1 year ago
@woogetyboogety You have taken everyone of those passages out of context. You never base your doctrine on isolated hard to interpret passages. Take hebrews 6:4-6 most armenian only quote 4, but 5 and 6 make it clear if it were saying you can lose you salvation you won't ever gain it back, but do not fear verse 9 the writer makes it clear he was not addressing 4-6 to saved but unsaved. John 6:37: "all that the father give me come to me and all who come to me shall in no wise be cast out"
kooler2004 1 year ago
@kooler2004 Not at all out of context. At all. If they are, then thoroughly explain how.
woogetyboogety 1 year ago
@kooler2004 I'm not armenian btw, not that you said I was, but just clarifying. A/w, Heb. 6 is clearly talking about Believer's. There is no way to try to say that it's not. No way at all.
woogetyboogety 1 year ago
@woogetyboogety Read verse 9 then read the entire bible. The majority of the bible says you cannot lose salvation. So does the bible contradict it self. By no means, What sin can I commit to lose my salvation? Does jesus being an advocate for our sins not count? So if I could wake up one morning and I have lost my salvation ( if that were true) then you do realize that heb 6 out of context would say I can't gain it back. I read each scripture in context of passage and entire bible.
kooler2004 1 year ago
@kooler2004 @kooler2004 I read verse 9, as well as the whole book of Hebrews. Neither it, nor the rest of the Bible, ever say that you can't reject your salvation. Tell me this, did Adam and Eve have eternal life in them? Did they lose it? The scriptures verify over and over and over again that a person can be lost, after being born again? What about the prodigal son that Jesus Himself taught about? It plainly says, after already being "In the Father's House," that he was lost, and then found.
woogetyboogety 1 year ago
@woogetyboogety It's true. It happened to me nine years ago. It's a fearful thing that many "Christians" stubbornly refuse to believe.
rep5281 1 year ago
what you are saying is not biblical. Remember bud, just because you work at a church does not make you right. Also the bible teaches that all christians are to be ministers. The word ministry means doing good for others. Also what does the word eternal life mean? Ever ask your self that it means life that is never ending or never ceasing to exist. So if I can lose my salvation then it was never eternal life and God has lied.
kooler2004 1 year ago
@kooler2004 Btw, I never said that being a full-time minister makes me always right. Yes, all Believers have been placed in the ministry of reconciliation. What does eternal life mean? It means that the life that enters into someone upon being born again, is in and of itself eternal. But, a person can still reject the life that is eternal. Not God's fault. Nothing wrong with the life within them. But they simply choose to reject Him/that life at some point.
woogetyboogety 1 year ago
more info for you verse 9 of heb 6 makes a shift in context according to the verse every verse before it was talking to people who are not in christ every verse after it in the contextual passage is addressed to believers. The bible teaches clearly (read 1st john in context) that if you claim to be saved and then reject God completely then you were never saved to begin with.
kooler2004 1 year ago
@kooler2004 I disagree man. All of 2 Peter 2 and the book of Jude are about people who were in Christ and then rejected them. And what about 1 Tim. 4, that says that many shall DEPART from the faith (not yelling, emphasizing) How can you depart, if you we're never "apart?" Jesus Himself said that no one that was His could be plucked out of His hands, but somehow Judas managed to get away. The thing is, He wasn't plucked out, but chose to "jump" out. Same for Believer's today.
woogetyboogety 1 year ago
@woogetyboogety Jesus knew from the beginning that Judas did not believe and that he would betray him. This is not analogous to believers today as you claim.
Tobytuber 11 months ago
@kooler2004 Just so you know, I'm not an Armenian. Also, you need to let the scriptures interpret the scriptures. You can't read them w/out any pre conceived doctrinal bias. Did you go and actually read those portions of scripture w/out any commentary or anything like that?
woogetyboogety 1 year ago
1 john 2:28 has no reference to losing salvation but rather encourages spiritually immature to remain confident and not be swept away. Spiritually immature people are ones who either are saved or just claim to be a christian, and this is where your geting confused. You can't lose what you never had to begin with. John 10:27-28 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand"
kooler2004 1 year ago
james 5:19-20 again this in context with the rest of the bible is referring to those who have heard truth and have claimed it but our not saved.
kooler2004 1 year ago
@kooler2004 That's soo out of context it's not funny. Not one times does it say that. You can't read things into scriptures. It plainly says "If an BRETHREN errs from the truth,and he converts back, then a SINNER was converted back." (caps are not yelling, just emphasis)
woogetyboogety 1 year ago
"Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or danger, or sword?As it is written, "For your sake we are being killed all the day long; we are regarded as sheep to be slaughtered." No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us.For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, continued
kooler2004 1 year ago
@kooler2004 But this verse never says that we can't separat ourself.
woogetyboogety 1 year ago
"nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord." romans 8:35-39
kooler2004 1 year ago
Ask your self what eternal means. It means never ending so if you can lose it is it eternal? by no means. Salvation is by grace through faith. If I could lose my salvation that means something I can do makes me lose it and something I do can gain my salvation back, and that sir is works, and according to ephesians 2:8 the bible makes it clear salvation is a free gift not something you can earn.
kooler2004 1 year ago
@kooler2004 And I by no means believe in gaining or lose salvation by our works, at all. I, as a full-time minister, teach/preach more on Grace than anything else, by far I believe that you cannot lose through bad works what you did not gain through good works, but you can consciously choose to reject your salvation. A gift can be rejected just as it can be received.
woogetyboogety 1 year ago
Respond to this video...jordanorick . com
woogetyboogety 1 year ago
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Is it possible for redeemed people to lose their salvation? The Bible says, "No!" One who is saved "has everlasting life, and ... is passed from death unto life" (John 5:24). (Romans 8:28-39) (Jude 24) (Philippians 1:6). Even true Christians can sin, (Psalm 51:12). A failure to grow spiritually can also rob us of the confidence that we are God's children (2 Peter 1:9). But anyone indwelt by the Holy Spirit is secure eternally (Ephesians 1:14).
cuddzu 1 year ago
i beleave first lost, once saved, and if you will keep sinning you will still die in sin, even after you think you are saved, and you keep on sinning till the end then you may never have ben saved in the first place, if we think its ok to sin willfuly after and still go to heaven we are wrong, the bible says jesus always will pull his people back to him, just my understanding, if im wrong im sorry god bless you.
maxbird2003 1 year ago
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YOUTUBE THIS (copy and paste) and Ill tell you how your saved.
You cant lose your salvation! HedeenJeff
HedeenJeff 1 year ago
Ezekiel 18:24 But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, [and] doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked [man] doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.
rplsh78 1 year ago
If the proposed justification for these four grown-up men's assumed eternal credit was not so deeply grim, I would have chuckled and moved to another Youtube page. However, it strikes me as intensely bizarre and egocentric, that seemingly intelligent modern people can justify with any dignity, that a torturous human sacrifice would have a beneficial supernatural influence on their personal well-being. What other atrocities will they tolerate and glorify?
studioROT 1 year ago
amen amen brothers. We, who are born of God are secured, made new creatures that love Him and want to live for Him and with Him, get out of sin. God's grace saves you, God's grace keeps out. Those, who are born of God will endure to the end by God's power.
kalakjuni 1 year ago
The first principles of the doctrine of Christ are hard to leave for most believers. Hebrews says, "this we will do if God permits." Heb.6:3 There should be no debate on the security of the believer, except for those who are stuck on the first principles. What can be lost, is the inherited rights of a believer. That's why Hebrews then tells us to be "followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises." Hebrews 6:12
Terry8150 1 year ago
But I do know exactly what it says :~)
EnChristosEime4life 2 years ago
he that endureth to the end shall be saved. by that assumption he that doesn't endureth to the end shall not be saved
MrTraitorX 2 years ago
People lose their car keys and wallets, but no man loses his salvation. However, once can surely depart from the faith and FORFEIT their salvation in the Lord. The New Testament if full of scriptures that support this.
EnChristosEime4life 2 years ago
This take on eternal security surly makes provision for the flesh rather than aiding the saint in mortifying it.
Another thing, it's interesting that when I hear people like Todd attempt to "teach" the "doctrine" of eternal security, they fail to highlight the scriptures that make it plan that it is essential to live a HOLY life in the Lord. They only talk about people not "losing" their salvation no matter what happens.I mean why did Jesus tell us to STAY on the straight and narrow path?
EnChristosEime4life 2 years ago
The Lord giveth;and the Lord take it away.
stancan2 2 years ago
Anyone ever heard the term: Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater? Just because some '"christians" say they can live any way they want DOES NOT:
1.) MEAN THEY'RE CHRISTIANS
2.) MEAN THEY'RE RIGHT
3.) MEAN THEY REPRESENT EVERY PROPONENT'S OPINION
4.) MEAN THAT THE TRUE DOCTRINE OF ETERNAL SECURITY IS NEGATED.
People rightly get concerned over 'false believers" who merely 'signed a card' or 'invited Jesus in their hearts' But to assume they were saved in the first place is crazy.
jaybramer 2 years ago
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MessageOfTheKingdom 2 years ago
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MessageOfTheKingdom 2 years ago
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MessageOfTheKingdom 2 years ago
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MessageOfTheKingdom 2 years ago
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MessageOfTheKingdom 2 years ago
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MessageOfTheKingdom 2 years ago
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10) Its all about repenting, reforming, converting to the perfect standard of keeping Yahwehs Laws and all religions have missed this basic point because Satan deceived all of them Revelation 12:9.
MessageOfTheKingdom 2 years ago
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9) Unrepentant sinners will receive death. Why should Yahweh grant visas to anyone who He knows has refused to keep His Laws? That would lead to greater chaos than what we are experiencing now on the earth. Repenters who overcome sin (Rev 21:7) will receive eternal life and nothing that you or anyone says can change that. If you want eternal life keep the commandments Mat 19:17.
MessageOfTheKingdom 2 years ago
8) That will lead to death not eternal life. Infact very soon these three religions will lead us toward that final outcome nuclear devastation and people will then realize that the wages of sin (breaking Yahwehs Laws is Death). Yahshua said that He will forgive those who recognize Him as the Savior (Jews refuse to do this) and follow His law keeping example by repent of our sinful ways, not those who continue in sin.
MessageOfTheKingdom 2 years ago
7) They say you can do this because their savior kept the laws for them so now they can eat pork, buzzards, or worms. They now have the right to keep the idolatrous and pagan festivals as their way of life and culture instead of the Feast Days of Yahweh which the true Savior kept. In short they do not believe the true Savior. Regardless of what they teach Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are all doing the same thing: Disobeying Yahweh!
MessageOfTheKingdom 2 years ago
6) Christians teach that it is impossible to keep the laws of Yahweh and since it is impossible, dont even make law keeping our way of life. Instead make sinning (breaking which ever of Yahwehs Laws you dont like like the Sabbath or pork eating pick a church that keeps the subset of laws that fits your liking) your way of life. Dont make keeping the Laws of Yahweh your way of life make sinning your way of life.
MessageOfTheKingdom 2 years ago
5) My friend Yahshua the true Savior was the only man who lived perfectly BECAUSE HE KEPT YAHWEHS LAWS HE DID NOT BREAK THEM. He encouraged us in Mat 5:48 to do the same and BECOME perfect like He was by obeying every word that proceeds from the mouth of the Father (Mat 4:4). Instead of following His example and practice keeping Yahwehs Laws like He did I John 2:6.
MessageOfTheKingdom 2 years ago
4) The Moslems send their prophet up to the mountain and got a completely new book and claimed that Yahweh changed His Laws and His Name on His last visit to earth. I am reserving front row seats to see them tell Moses and all the prophets that they dont have to keep the Sabbath and Feast Days any more. They are converting uneducated Christians by the droves (especially in prisons) by pointing out the fact that the so called New Testament is riddled with mistranslations and contradictions.
MessageOfTheKingdom 2 years ago
3) The Christians twists the already mistranslated words of the apostles to claim that their god and newly named savior Jesus Christ nailed the laws of Yahweh to the cross. Most Christians are not even aware that the word JESUS came into existence only 500 years ago and that the apostles never heard that word AT ANY TIME IN THEIR ENTIRE LIVES.
MessageOfTheKingdom 2 years ago
2) They like all other religions dont understand that if you add (traditions) or take away (His Name or any of His commandments) from the law you are breaking it Deut 4:2. Thats why Yahshua said about them Was not the Law given through Mosheh (Moses)? And yet none of you keep the Law!
MessageOfTheKingdom 2 years ago
1) Mankind can only have eternal life by living by the every word that proceeds from the mouth of Yahweh. Nothing or no one can change that Mat 5:18. Christianity, Judaism, and Islam have all strayed from the Laws of Yahweh. They have their own rational for doing away with the laws of Yahweh. The Jews rejected the true savior Yahshua like they did all the other prophets and claim that they need their traditions which they added to the law and which Yahshua resoundingly rejected Mark 7:7
MessageOfTheKingdom 2 years ago
Work out your salvation with fear and trembling because GOD IS AT WORK IN YOU. (If God's not at work in someone they aren't saved, no matter what they claim.) Philippians 2:12, 13.
Work out your salvation with fear and trembling BECAUSE YOU ARE going to heaven, NOT TO TRY AND GET THERE.
What is God's 1st commandment?:
John 6:29 Trust in Jesus. Not in jesus and yourself. In Jesus. True disciples continue and lalways produce at least some fruit. Love begets love. Love ya friend.
jaybramer 2 years ago
God calls us to live holy lives. But this is evidence of salvation, not the reason for it. Trusting in one's own good works is a damnable heresy! Galatians 1:8,9. There is NO SUCH THING as salvation without sanctification following; similary, there is no such thing as salvation by works, or any combination.
Jesus said If YOU LOVE ME, keep my commandments John 14:15,21,23/John 15:14 He didn't say keep my commandements and THEN you'll love me or THEN YOU'LL be saved!
jaybramer 2 years ago
God saved us for HIS own glory. And He saved us to be conformed to the image of His Son. As always, Satan dwells in the extremes:
1.) He either gives a "gospel" of easy believism that produces NO fruit (DEAD), OR
2.) He gives a "gospel" that entails people KEEPING THE LAW TO GET SAVED. There is NOTHING new under the sun.
There is NO such thing as a Christian who is void of works or is living in sin comfortably. Neither is their a Christian who trusts in his own works to get to heaven.
jaybramer 2 years ago
It is because we have the Spirit that we able to do good works. A true Christian cannot be void of good works for many reasons.
1.) He is a new creation 2 Corinthians 5:17
2.) He is indwelt by the Holy Spirit Romans 8:14-17
3.) He is DEAD to sin. Romans 6:2 (whole chapter, really)
4.) Ephesians 2:10/Titus 2:14 - he was created for good works
5.) The grace of GOD works in him to help him say NO to evil and YES to good Titus 2:11,12
6.) Jesus always intercedes for him Heb 7:25
jaybramer 2 years ago
Ephesians 2:8,9 For BY GRACE have you been saved through faith. And this is NOT YOUR OWN DOING; IT IS THE GIFT OF GOD, NOT A RESULT OF WORKS, SO THAT NO ONE MAY BOAST.
Titus 3:5 He saved us NOT BECAUSE OF WORKS DONE BY US IN RIGHTEOUSNESS BUT ACCORDING TO HIS OWN MERCY
It's true that faith with NO works is dead. (James 2). But WORKS ARE the EVIDENCE THAT WE HAVE SAVING FAITH. Works are the FRUIT, not the Root.
In Gal. 5:22- Paul lists the FRUITS OF THE SPIRIT, not fruits of works.
jaybramer 2 years ago
Rom. 10:1-4 - Brothers, my heart's desire and prayer to God for them (Jews) is that they may be saved. For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for GOD, BUT NOT ACCORDING TO KNOWLEDGE. FOR, BEING IGNORANT OF GOD'S RIGHTEOUSNESS, and seeking to establish THEIR OWN, they did not submit to God's rightouesness. For Christ is THE END OF THE LAW FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS to everyone who believes
Rom 9:30-33 Why did the Jews miss salvation? Because they sought it as though it were by works! vs. 32
jaybramer 2 years ago
Romans 3:19, 20- Now we know that whatever the law says it speaks to those under the law, SO THAT EVERY MOUTH MAY BE STOPPED, and the whole world may be held accountable to GOD. FOR BY THE WORKS OF THE LAW NO HUMAN BEING SHALL BE JUSTIFIED IN HIS SIGHT, SINCE THROUGH THE LAW COMES THE KNOWLEDGE OF SIN.
Romans 3:23,24, - for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of GOD, being Justified FREELY AS A GIFT, through the REDEMPTION THAT IS IN CHRIST JESUS.
jaybramer 2 years ago
Gal. 2:16- "yet we know that a person IS NOT JUSTIFIED BY THE WORKS OF THE LAW BUT THROUGH FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, IN ORDER TO BE JUSTIFIED BY FAITH IN CHRIST, NOT BY WORKS OF THE LAW, because by WORKS OF THE LAW NO FLESH SHALL BE JUSTIFIED.
Gal. 2:21 I don't nullify the grace of GOD, for if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for NO PURPOSE.
Gal. 1:8,9 - .."If anyone is preaching another gospel, let him be damned to hell."
jaybramer 2 years ago
Hi jaybramer what is so evil about loving your neighbor as yourself Lev 19:18, loving your enemies Ex 23:4, Mat 5:44, not accepting a bribe Ex 23:8, not committing adultery Ex 20:14, keeping the Sabbath holy Ex 20:8-10, not committing abortions (murder) Mat 19:18, and Loving Yahweh with all your heart Deut 6:5, to name of few of these laws or spiritual duties you call evil. What is evil about living by the every word of Yahweh as the Savior commands us to do? Mat 4:4 (Deut 8:3).
MessageOfTheKingdom 2 years ago
Hi jaybramer, you said "If YOU have to keep your faith, and in order to do that you need to perform your spiritual duties, than indirectly you HAVE to perform to keep your faith to keep your salvation. That is evil." The Savior said If you will enter into eternal life keep the laws of Yahweh (Mat 19:17) They called the Savior evil to, but wow to those who call righteousness evil and evil righteousness. Remember His shed blood is for repenters not sinners.
MessageOfTheKingdom 2 years ago
Friend, I think you gravely misunderstand me. I do work out my salvation with fear and trembling BECAUSE I am a new creation, BECAUSE I am a child of GOD, and BECAUSE I am going to heaven. That's MILES away from doing those things TO GET to heaven. It's interesting you mentioned Mat. 19:17 as proof that Jesus "taught salvation by keeping the law." In Mat. 19:25 the disciples said, "who then can be saved?" Jesus said, "With man IT'S IMPOSSIBLE," BUT WITH GOD ALL THINGS ARE.
jaybramer 2 years ago
Hi jaybramer. I take it that you would have no problems rooming with a serial killer or a serial rapist who came to your Church and was saved yesterday. I suppose that you would have no problems having the rapist baby sit your children. The argument you present is the reason Islam is winning over Christians by the droves. Christianity has come to represent a faith without substance and righteous behavior. Yahshua said go and sin no more. Lets teach what He taught.
MessageOfTheKingdom 2 years ago
Hi jaybramer. It is easy to get a no laws salvation Christian upset; just read them some scriptures that clearly state that the Laws must be kept. If you continue reading these scriptures they will send in the police or the troops to stop this evil teaching of law keeping. This is what all the prophets, apostles and the Savior Himself had to contend with. The day is coming when the law haters will not have power over the law keepers. Yahshua commands us to repent of sinning.
MessageOfTheKingdom 2 years ago
First of all, you haven't even met me and you've summed me up and my 37 years of existence in the phrase "no laws Christian." That's quite amazing, if not insulting to say the least. What I'm saying to you is that there is NO salvation without works as a result. That's called antinomianism (no-law). It's a terrible abuse of grace, but SO IS ADDING LAW TO IT! THAT'S LEGALISM!
jaybramer 2 years ago
Question: "Can I Lose My Salvation?"
Answer: Hebrews 10:26 If we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins; but - fiery indignation which shall devour the adversaries. The wages of sin is death Rom 6:23. This is why sinners will not enter the Kingdom ICor6:9; only those who overcome sin Rev 21:7. The sacrifice of the Savior is for repenters not sinners, so Repent because the Kingdom of Yahweh is at hand Matt 4:17.
MessageOfTheKingdom 2 years ago
Amen! Thank you so much for posting these scriptures. While I do believe there is place for the doctrine of eternal security, I think that this spin on it is grossly wrong, it produces dead fruit, (e.g. stagnation of growth, uncheck, up repented sin, wounded faith), it is merely a doctrine of convenience. It is interesting that out of all the times I have heard pastors preach this, they never preach on the importance of resisting sin and living holiness within the same setting, hummm....
EnChristosEime4life 2 years ago
The problem I have with this is that it is totally one sided. What I mean by this is that I have gone to three services out in Silver springs and have heard Todd get at this doctrine little by letter and then he did the sermon there on Eternal Security, during the course of the sermon and even when I have heard him allude to this notion of eternal security, he skips over a boat load of scriptures that suggest one can FORFEIT their relationship and salvation with Christ Bcause of unrepented sin.
EnChristosEime4life 2 years ago
For example, Matthew 24:13, among others makes it plain in saying:
10At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13but he who stands firm to the end will be saved.
It is not necessarily the persecution that we must indure in our personal lives, but is is also talking about enduring sin-overcoming sin in our bodies.
EnChristosEime4life 2 years ago
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EnChristosEime4life 2 years ago
There are so many wolves out there who many still believe are men and women of God, but they have wounded the sheep, distorted the word of God, the Gospel of the Christ and have uprooted whole house holds and because many believe this whole "once saved always saved", "I don't have to exhibit the fruit of the holy spirit, but commit as much sin just as long as I have said the sinner's prayer because I am locked in" belief many Christian are afraid to flee wolves, which is what the bible tells us
EnChristosEime4life 2 years ago
I get so frustrated everytime I hear these preachers preach the doctrine of eternity and they just stay at the part that says, "if you surrender to christ, there is nothing you do and there is nothing no one can say to cause you to loose your salvation," but I never never hear them talk about the believer exhibiting the fruit of the spirit, which is very important because it is the fruit that we will be identified by. If it is of God, we are of him, if it is of ourselves, then we are of satan.
EnChristosEime4life 2 years ago
Well, isn't that salvation by works? Can't Jesus merely be saying that "the proof of salvation is enduring"? In John 8:31 Jesus says, if you continue in My Word, THEN you are my disciples indeed? Does that mean we can NEVER call ourselves disciples until we're dead? I get saved at age 12, but I can't call myself a Christian until after I've passed the test of enduring? Ridiculous. Jesus is saying TRUE disciples continue in my word. Look at 1John 2:19.
jaybramer 2 years ago
Christians work out their salvation with fear and trembling BECAUSE they're going to heaven, not to try and get there. That's why it's so important to understand that salvation is forever. So is the new birth. So is the indwelling Spirit. Thus, if a "believer" is living in sin, how are they not being disciplined by the LORD? How, can they be at peace? How can the Spirit not be convicting them. It's been said that sometimes Christians fit for heaven are no longer fit for the earth.
jaybramer 2 years ago
Sometimes sin gets so bad that GOD takes HIS kids home "early" as it were, like in 1 Corinthians 11. He strickened some with sickness and death "so that they would not be condemned with the rest of the world." If He's willing to do that for them, why wouldn't he do that for everybody. Look at the power of Romans 5:9,10. When we were at our worst, GOD gave Jesus. He gave an infinite price when we were children of the devil, to secure a home for us in heaven. Is He going to go less for us now?
jaybramer 2 years ago
Notice too, it's the DEATH of Jesus that saved us. HOW MUCH MORE will we be saved through HIS LIFE? Jesus is now alive and intereceding for us (Romans 8:34, Hebrew 7:25). If a 'dead' savior can save us, how much more the risen savior, who always intercedes for us, who never prays anything but GOD's will, and ALWAYS has his prayer answered? To think that Christians could lose their salvation is egregious against GOD as Father, Jesus as intercessor, and the Holy Spirit...the infinite power.
jaybramer 2 years ago
It's to say GOD would give HIS children LESS grace than He originally did when were satan's kids, He would not be willing to take His chidlren's souls (which would at that point cost Him nothing) after already giving an INFINITE price when they were still satan's kids, it's to say Jesus' prayers could actually go unanswered, and, the power of the HOLY Spirit is not enough to keep you saved. Friends, if GOD the FATHER, Jesus the Priest, and the Spirit can't KEEP you, good luck doing it yourself.
jaybramer 2 years ago
Lastly, Rom. 5:2 says we stand in "GRACE." Not performance. How can we merit staying in unmerited favor? If I truly am a Christian, I l want to please GOD, even though I fail everyday (1 John 3:3). I could backslide and incur my Father's discipline, which may involve injury, sickness, or death, all for my own good. That's not the way I want to go out, you? But, to say we pursue sanctification to 'STAY SAVED" is salvation by works...GOD HATES IT. Run the race because you are what you are.
jaybramer 2 years ago
I should warn you that you are isogeting the text by reading your traditional view that you have been indoctrinated into by the institutional church, you are reading that into the scriptures and it is distorting your perspective of these scriptures you have listed and what the whole Bible has to say about the topic of "eternal security.'
It also sounds like you have a MacArthur study bible too. I thought I heard some of is commentary here. He is a good preacher, but he also has a tendency
EnChristosEime4life 2 years ago
... to isoget his classical view on certain topics into the scriptures. I have a McArthur Study Bible too, but I have notices that he reads his traditional view based on the traditions of his denomination into certain scriptures it sounds like you have done the same here.
Follow God, not man, not tradition--you will end up like the Pharisees if you do...
EnChristosEime4life 2 years ago
Tell me, how can you misinterpret John 10:27-29 WITHOUT ISOGETING? IT'S AS PLAIN AS DAY! As a matter of fact, NONE of the other scriptures ever talk about savlation being lost. You must "assume" and isogete that certain people were saved and that certain subjects are indeed talking about loss of salvation, even though they NEVER use that term. Talk about Isogeting!
jaybramer 2 years ago
Unfortunately, it is YOU who are isogeting. Answer me this: How are you going to get to heaven one day? By working to get there? I'm going to get there by Jesus and Jesus alone. If you think salvaiton can be lost, it's not GOD who kicks you out, and it's not the devil who steals it, it must be you. If YOU have to keep your faith, and in order to do that you need to perform your spiritual duties, than indirectly you HAVE to perform to keep your faith to keep your salvation. That is evil.
jaybramer 2 years ago
We don't endure to "stay saved," we endure because we are saved.
jaybramer 2 years ago
Philippians 2:12b-13 "...work out your salvation with fear and trembling; for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure"
1apadilla 2 years ago
aT 2:50, Todd mentions a scripture from 1st Peter, what verse is that?
lestggr 3 years ago
I Peter 1:3-5
24magster 2 years ago
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False teachers preaching a false Gospel and a false Jesus Christ.
But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed!
Therefore it is not surprising if his servants also disguise themselves as servants of righteousness, whose end will be according to their deeds.
If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned.
777denny 3 years ago