Now get this (LOL) all you who are arguing over whether or not a Time Lord, in partic the Doctor, cud have over 12 or 13 regenerations: This is canonical Doctor Who: All the doc wud have to do to get any number of regenerations is to assemble the Key to Time & speak what he wants over the assembled key (cube), since the assembled key enables one to be omnipotent.
I can't believe they did away with Gallifrey; it was an essential motif in the story, the hypocritical Time Lords' planet. Between 2 regenerations a regeneration? That is a joke.
I didn't like the way the 6th Dr. series ended. I liked Colin Baker, tho my favorite (& ever in my mind the real doctor) is Tom Baker, having just the right balance between seriousness & humor. Colin IMHO went just a little overboard on the humor.
So this means that after all these dventures, the Doctor is destined to be evil.
Guess there's no point in watching anymore since we know that the Doctor becoming the Valeyard is a set in stone, absolute guarantee. Because we see the proof standing right there.
So you got a favorite Doctor? Doesn't matter. Whichever may be your favorite, this epsidoe proves he'll end up a villain. All the adventures. All the heroics. All for nothing. The Valeyard is the end of that.
@ReverendSyn on the contrary, time can be rewritten. the doctor is yet destined to be the valeyard. he has, and he still can re wright time over and over again.
@ReverendSyn also. in order for the doctor to be the valeyard he would need to travel back to galifray witch is quantom locked. and un accessible. theres no way the doctor could be there now from the 2009+ series
@Thunkful2 Assuming the Doctor does remember this event, I doubt the Doctor would use the Key to Time in that manner, perhaps because it is making his life easier, so to speak. It isn't like the Doctor to use absolute power to be omnipotent or get rid of any hardships in his life.
(Besides, I'm sure the White Guardian would make sure no one used the power like that. Isn't that what the Black Guardian is for? Even if it's not, I'm sure the White Guardian won't allow it.)
Don't u recall The Key to Time when the doc hovered over the Key & his eyes rolled for a second as if the omnipotent power was about to corrupt him? He could have ordered the White Guardian out of existence at that point. Tho I think the WG said he needed the key assembled briefly to adjust the cosmos, but we never saw the WG doing any adjustings or hovering over the key. Why not use it to save Gallifrey? exactly the purpose it has.
@Thunkful2 Also, the original post said something like "Gallifrey is time-locked so the Valeyard can't return there" and I asked "Only the Time War, not all of Gallifrey, is time-locked". Your statement would only make sense if the Doctor were to somehow use the power to prevent the Valeyard from going to Gallifrey.
@ReverendSyn The original story was exactly that: The Valeyard was meant to be the inevitable future of the Doctor. The actual story is less clear, and seems to imply that the Valeyard could somehow exist independent of the Doctor (excess evil energy breaking off from him during regeneration?).
@ReverendSyn Colin Baker was billions of times, better as Bayban in Blake's Seven in the episode city at the edge of the world. Colin should in my view have been cast, as Roj Blake in B7 and if Colin Baker had played Blake instead of Gareth Thomas he would have not only been a very different Blake but Colin would have stayed in B7 for season 3 and it is a possibility B7 could have run much longer than it actually did and Blake would be the best lead part in B7 for Colin to portray.
See, under Galifreyan law, a Time Lord is only allowed 13 (I think, I could be wrong about this number) regenerations. This is not a fact about Time Lord biology, but about their rights under Galifreyan law. Galifrey, however, is no more, so this law is obsolete.
@IncidentalChopstics Incorrect. It is a fact about Time Lords. Just like the fact they have two hearts or they have mastered time travel abilities. Just because the Time Lords are gone doesn't mean the Doctor has as many incarnations as he wants. Just like if you were the last human, you wouldn't grow an extra head or be able to survive being shot in the head. Nowhere does it state that the 13 incarnations are a law--it is however part of their biology.
But you may recall that in The Five Doctors, some achieved immortality as gargoyle heads on Rassilon's coffin. & it looked like Rassilon himself had immortality as a holograph. Of course the Daleks may have destroyed all that.
I like Colin Baker. I started watching Blake's Seven, but I lost track of it having to work. It seemed odd how so soon there was no more any Blake in the show! Couldn't they bring a bloke to be Blake?
@Thunkful2 What do you mean could,nt they bring a bloke to be Blake?. I cannot understand that comment, I think Colin Baker should have been cast as Blake when they made Blake's Seven assuming Colin had been available and if he had been approached to play Blake. I can imagine Colin Baker as Blake, and he would have stuck around longer as Blake than Gareth Thomas did. I can imagine if Colin Baker had been offered, the part of Blake and he had been available he would have jumped at it
I think this is done with soap operas from time to time: a new actor is given the role of someone who quits, & they go on pretending its the same person. In other words, get a new actor for the part.
In "The Wedding of River Song", Dorian (did I spell it right?) said that the Doctor had a long and dangerous past but his future was infinitely more terrifying and the Silence feel that it must be averted. So does the Silence know that the Valeyard gets created after MS's Doctor? If so, then the story gets more and more interesting.
the crack on the wall, the doctor becoming the most feared being in the universe, the supposed war against him, maybe it's not just what he's becoming now, but he might be in the future. maybe the valeyard already happened and messed up the timestream. what i wanna know is will they bring the watcher back to help him go to the next incarnation (whether it's the 12th or the 13th)
@jumpingflyingsadfish just wondering, Do you think that Ood Sigma could have represented the watcher since he was there when 10 started nearing his regeneration shortly after journeys end? Cause if they do bring him back (a highly unlikely prospect since nobody knows the lifespan of an Ood anyways) that would bring things into a bigger perspective, but is any of it making any sense?
@TheEdward4ever That could be possible, he did tell the Doctor his song was ending. Much like how the 4th's time was ending. But about him being back, that would be cool. Only problem is if he's going to warn the Doctor of what he might become. How the Ood warned the Doctor of the Master's return, do you think the Silents, leaders of the Silence, are warning the coming of the Valeyard?
Obviously the Dream Lord is the Valeyard. think about it: the darkness the doctor had inside suddenly woke up in his 11th incarnation, just one step closer to the 12th. But i don't think 10.5 doctor is gonna be the valeyard, cos the master did say it was around the doctor's 12th and 13th incarnation not 10th. and watching the series of the 11th doctor, i see it growing darker and darker like getting ready for what he might become.
its pretty obvious here ... the valeyard is the meta crisis doctor ... the 10th doctor's stopped regeneration still counts as such since the meta crisis doctor was created so it would make sense if the meta crisis doctor couldnt regenerate obviously he would want the remainer of the 6th doctors regenerations
@spikieboy228 That would be true, but the meta crisis doctor in journeys end said that he can grow old. perhaps that they would let that slide, however that still leaves the question on what happens to rose.
@spikieboy228 Sorry but that is quite impossible. If they made it so then it would negate what is stated in the clip. Tennant was the tenth doctor not the twelfth so it is impossible. Bsides if they did do that they would upset the fans of rose and turn others off from it. I heard sum1 theorsie the valeyard is the dream lord. I assume regenerative energy will flow from the doctor and create the valeyard yet the doctor would still regenerate. He would bcome his last incarnation and vy would live.
i think the timelords are going to come back some how (like, a parallel universe with time lords? i dunno ......) and give the doctor a new life cycle. like they were going to do in The Five Doctors for the Master if he rescued all the doctors incarnations from the death zone. and steven moffat has go to find a way around the doctor getting killed by the astronaut. remember :- in the doctor who movie, the seventh doctor was dead for some time before regenerating into the 8th doctor.
@silarnon Well i can here it perfectly, If you cant, that your tough luck !! Get a better sound system !
Or better yet, go out and buy the boxset !!! As the info says this video is made for a 5.1 audio system. If you dont have a 5.1 system that the audio will be distorted.
Since they "rebooted" DW they have completly pissed on the dialogue not paying attention to past episodes but instead creating new idea's hence as long as the earth is still around there will always be docter who.
That's not his 12th regeneration. First off, that video is so old, the Valiard is probably dead by now, so it would be impossible to have him as the Doctor.
Secondly:
The Master said it was an amalgamation of all the evil/darkness the doctor felt/held in his heart, from his first regeneration to the 12th.
(i.e. an incarnation of all the evil inside the doctor, stripped away from him and given its own separate life. It needs the doctor's remaining regenerations to live.)
@MrAODWay Generally, the reason I htink the scores are so loud on these rescores is because the music is already mixed into the original episode. If you want to do a rescore, the music has to be louder than the original score or they could become a jumbled mess of music.
So wait, the Dreamlord/Valeyard will take over between the Doctor's 12th and 13th regenerations? The doctor has regenerated 12 times now (including when his excess energy was absorbed into his cut off hand) which means that the reason Matt Smith had to die at 1103 was to prevent the Valeyard from taking over?
@OneWingedRose Not quite. The Valeyard gets created sometime during the Doctor's 12th persona, not after he has regenerated 12 times. Matt Smith is the 11th Doctor but has regenerated 10 times and the meta-crisis Doctor does not count as a regeneration. He stopped the regeneration process with the help of his severed hand. People always get confused by that. We likely won't see the Valeyard under Matt Smith (although we might see hints of him) but we should likely see him in the next Doctor.
@fkylw I wish Colin Baker had played Blake in Blake's Seven, instead of Gareth thomas if Colin had played Blake he would have stayed longer than two seasons and Colin Bkaer in my view shoudl have been cast as Blake.
@OneWingedRose The Doctor can't prevent the inevitable. Waters of Mars taught him that. The Valeyard must be created. There's no way out of it. I don't know if Tennant's giving life to his hand counts as a regeneration. I think we have 1 more regen. left before the Valeyard is born. The Valeyard, I think, is a physical manifestation or embodiment of the Dark Doctor. Remember what 10 said about the Time War - "Nothing can get in or out, unless something that was already there."
@NekoChanMaasta You kidding? I think the music made this scene 1,00,00 times better lol I actually wish they took out the original OST in this scene and just left the speach and the music :D But I d agree that the new music was a bit too loud lol.
@kingt34 That whispery operatic music from Tennant's era has gradually started to really annoy me. Especially after hearing how awesome the series 5 music is.
Maybe I should find this scene and put some series 5 stuff in :D
I like that it's implied that a Time Lord's regenerations can be transferred to another Time Lord. Then we've got a way around the 13 limit; The 13th Doctor (right before his death) encounters another Time Lord (who's in his/her first incarnation), who transfers it's remaining 12 lives, to the Doctor, allowing him to regenerate again. Giving us a 14th Doctor, with the potential for another 11 regenerations.
i bet that the docter will be on that final regenerated and he meets anouther time lord which does something to give him anouther 12 more regenerations or something like that
If the BBC wouldn't have been asses and trashed the 6th Doctor before his time, we'd have probably got a better look at this not at all bad story line
The Valeyard (meaning "Doctor of Law") was supposed to be all that was evil in the Doctor, formed between his twelfth and thirteenth incarnations. HOWEVER, Robert Holmes' original idea (which got vetoed) was that he was the Doctor's last incarnation, old and frail and afraid to die, which would have been a very interesting idea.
@ericinwisconsin I agree the Robert Holmes original idea would have made an amazing story ending (the 6th and 13th Doctor plunging into the matrix). But the problem was that JNT was afraid that the original story would have given the BBC the excuse to permanently cancel Doctor Who in 1986. And had that happened, I highly doubt that the show would have ever been revived.
@upchuck69 Yes, good point. JNT got stuck in the job of producer. He wanted to move on, but the Beeb said that if he did, the would cancel DW. Creatively, he should have left when Peter Davison did or maybe even before. The end result is that he stayed on for the sake of the show and it just got worse and worse.
@ericinwisconsin I agree. The show overall got progressively worse as the 1980's went on. The only consistently good series was Sylvester McCoy's last year in 1989 but it was too little too late by then. I always felt bad for Colin Baker because he played a great Doctor but was screwed by bad stories, weak acting and his tacky outfit. The irony in all this is that JNTs bad decisions (especially with TOAT) may have inadvertently led to the later restoration of DW, but that's just my opinion.
@greatsayain Im not suprised, as i reminded Stephen Moffat in the last episode of last season Amy pulled The Doctor out of absolute nothingness for her wedding - that would possibly make him a fixed point in time just like Jack Harkness, this time a being with an infinite Regeneration cycle, like Rassilon.
@MrGarath You spoke directly to Stephen Moffat? I don't know about your explaination, Amy's memory is not equal to the heart of the tardis. if the Dr is a fixed point by that logic then so are amy's parents and lots of other things. If they did explain it like that that might be ok but i haven't heard that they will.
If you've seen the 5 Dr.s you know rassilon's form of immortality isn't very useful and it isn't infinite regenerations. They fully resurrected him for the time war.
When Amy woke up on her wedding day the universe was more or less the way it was supposed to be eccept that The Doctor who was in the TARDIS was destroyed at the same time the Universe "rebooted" itself, he wouldn't have ever existed,(the heart of the TARDIS would have been silenced once and for all) Amy calling him back into existance would be creating something out of nothing, an even more cosmicly profound event than Rose resurecting Jack.
@greatsayain That was likely a joke as if you add all three numbers the doctor gave is 13. Russel I believe mentioned that the idea of 507 regens will likely be retconned immediately by Moffat and remember The Doctor lies.
@Kharandis He was trying to impress the kid. Eleven tries to impress like, any kid he comes across. One of his attempts to impress a kid almost resulted in death by shark. Lying is not below him, at least not when it comes to information about his person (He tells Wilf he's 906 on one day, and the next day, he tells Amy he's 907....)
The Problem remains that the show is not ran the same way it was, Russell T. Davies showed time and time again that he understood the subtlties of 'Doctor Who the same way a Fruit Bat knows the subtlties of the International Space Station.
When it came to the Cybermen he deliberately ignored the fact that there would be Telos Cybermen in the Universe and recreated them.
Stephen Moffatt is better but when he makes mistakes ('Genesis Daleks' for example) they stand out.
The Problem remains that the show is not ran the same way it was, Russell T. Davies showed time and time again that he understood the subtlties of 'Doctor Who the same way a Fruit Bat knows the subtlties of the International Space Station.
When it came to the Cybermen he deliberately ignored the fact that there would be Telos Cybermen in the Universe and recreated them.
Stephen Moffatt is better but when he makes mistakes ('Genesis Daleks' for example) they stand out.
@MrGarath he didn't ignore it. there was a telos cyberman head in the undergraound museum in "dalek". in the alternate universe , the doctor says "i've seen this happen before" it is recognized. He just chose to start fresh with the cybus cybermen. I tihnk it was a good decision. maybe the telos ones will show up again. I'm not sure how baldy they were beaten the last time the doctor saw them. there could be nothing left.
@KendrixTermina Good idea, but obviously we've seen then changing their chest plates twice so now we don't know what they are, being new doctor who they are probably gonna to to the trouble of making a brand new planet for Cybermen to breed making them unlike the true Cybermen we loved. But good idea. :)
There will be no last regeneration! If the show keeps running and making money why would they end it? And their not American so I don't think they'll half ass it and make it terrible, so that only the die hard fan-boys keep watching. At least not anytime too soon.
Perpetuating it without end brings a whole new range of problems, simple ecconomics says that it will reduce in it's profitability one day,and probably soon.
I expect they are mindfull of that fact in prepairing for the future.
I think that the reason that River kills the Doctor, it that's what happens is because she knows who he will become if he lives. I also believe that all the Doctor's enemies ally against him because they know also who he will become, and will work together to try to prevent it from happening. I think it was the Valeyard that took over the TARDIS, and tried to blow it up at the end of series 5. Too bad he didn't damage it enough to cause another interior change. It looks like a reject set fr
Wot if river song is an alternative to the doctor? I no it's sounds strange! But wen the doctor sez bout river piloting the tardis in the pandorica opens the dalek sez only the doctor can fly the tardis! Also how would she no all that info bout the doctor like his name all his faces she has a sonic screwdriver that's better than his own in silence of the library I no she claims that it's from him and it saves her at the end of that episode! it's possible she being the doctor found a way to save
@Cure9269 but also how does she know to write in Gallifrayan? coz she writes on the box of that ship in it in the weeping angels ep + on that big oldest cliff face in gallifrayan in the pandorica opens lol ???
The Valeyard is 'an amalgamation of your darker sides somewhere between your 11th and final incarnations" So he's not the final regeneration. He's not an actual Doctor, he's a metaphysical being. Your dark side is not you.
@Chrisfs59 Yay, he's somewhat like the DreamLord from series 5, only that he was created by Time Lord technology instead of psychic pollen, and of course, they got his entire life's worth of evil from the future.
@upchuck69 maybe I reckon there's more to river song than meets the eye! Remember in flesh and stone when the doctor is told not to trust her by farther Octavian and that she killed a man the the doc asked her who he was? And she said he was the greatest man I every new! Perhaps she kills the doc? Only time will tell I have a theory though bout river I think she could be romana only she's regenerated so doctor wouldn't no! That would explain how she knows so much bout him?
@Cure9269 I've heard that rumour bouncing around but as far as I remember Romana was never in love with the Doctor but River Song certainly is. My guess is that is that River Song is half-Time Lord/ half human and that Romana could be her mother. In any case, the next season/series is going to be very interesting and hope to see more of the Doctor's dark side showing up.
@Cure9269 River killing the doc (or being his wife, for that matter) is far too simple. We'll find out who she is in Series 6. My theory is that she is a former minion of the Silence who later turns against the silence and joins the doc's side.
Brilliant idea bet the writers new though they would see after all these years that doctor who would reach doc 11 in matt smith I bet there sat at home wondering if Moffat will write this into his script into the future! Maybe when smith leaves one day!
@Cure9269 I certainly hope SM brings the Valeyard after Matt Smith but I wonder if he has already started after watching "Amy's Choice" with the Dreamlord. It appears that the Doctor's dark side is starting to take its own personality. I also wonder when the Doctor ultimately marries and loses River Song if that will also trigger his dark side to come to the surface.
the valeyard is as described within the word of the episode a synthisis of the doctors 12th and final incarnations as such he maybe a tantilising glimps or shodow of the final and penultimate doctor's form, however since clearly the events of the time war superseed the events of the ultimate foe wether the time line has alreafy been altered is open to some debate. (personally I'd love them to get this actor back into the new series as a future doctor as he is still alive)
But what about how the doctor's hand turned into a different half human doctor that preformed genocide agianst the dilects the one that went with rose. He could be the valeyard.
@bellec162 The Valeyard was *created* by Time Lord conspirationalists.... but of course, from the same 'source material' as the villain in "Amy's choice"... And you notice the similarities: Incredible intelligence, weird humor, teleporting themselves around and of course, the good old "guild-trip-him-about-the-girl" strategy.
Ahh! Already, I see clues to the coming of the Valeyard. If you watched the latest episode (2) of the new series 5... it is hinted... the doctor... in the moment of impossible choice, he is forced to 'end' and then proposes a name change because he won't be "The Doctor" anymore. However, I do not think his last regeneration turns him this way. Rather, it forms off from between a regeneration. perhaps a being opposite of to The Watcher that comes out of the doctor..? eh.. stretched speculation..
Well yes and no. The old series obviously is still cannon. So when a classic villian returns then they and the Doctor know each other, Sarah Jane made a reapearance, things like the Daleks origins and stuff is established as still being relevant. However some stuff is ignored. Now Moffat has made a statement that no more classic villians will be returning. So The Valeyard's storyline may well be forgotten. That said, he may make an exception for Matt Smiths finale whenever that comes around.
That's interesting that Steve Moffat said that because I read in an earlier review that he was a big fan of the classic Doctors (Especially Troughton, Pertwee and Baker). But I suppose he wants to cater to the newer audiences. Still he would be a fool to ignore the Valeyard character as the buildup to his creation and the battle to destroy him could make for some powerful stories.
He is a big fan of the classic series. He said he first tried to get a job at 7. But yes he probably does want to keep with newer audiences. I don't know how much he applies that though. I know that existing revived villians will be staying, the season 5 trailer shows some redesigned daleks. He may just say that only he won't be making any old villians returning. Other writers might be allowed to, or they might not. He may make an exception for the Valeyard, he might not. I honestly do not know.
I hope that he doesn't because that will ruin the point of the show, the name of it, the nature of it and the popularity and also the point of their being anymore regenerations so I hope that while he is regenerating something happenes to make two 12th Doctors as it will be hard to defeat himself and it has a good storyline and you could make a whole series of that and the popularity will go up!
I personally think the Meta Crisis Doctor will become the Valeyard if they ever decide to follow up on this at all. I mean, Rose is suposedly returning for End of Time. So they may well bring back the Meta Crisis Doctor and then they could work in some story where he somehow becomes the Valeyard. I doubt it myself but it would be a good story if they did go with that.
Well you say that but depending on whether or not the stolen earth regeneration counted, Matt Smiths doctor will be the 12th. If the Meta Crisis Doctor did somehow manage to regenerate he would technically be the 12th Doctor. Again I doubt the writers will actually follow up on that but the Meta Crisis Doctor could potentially become the Valeyard. Really we don't know for sure. I guess we'll find out at Christmas.
The Meta-Crisis Doctor is not and will not become the Valeyard he is part human and can not regenerate nor aviod death and ages as Humans do, The Valeyard is an entity between the Doctors twelfth and final incarnations.
I'm just putting that forward as a theory. And don't think that its impossible for him to regenerate too. Remember that this is Doctor Who. What happened when the first doctor decided to retire? 'This guy has the ability to change his body entirely!' In something like Doctor Who, anything can happen, so long as you explain it with some fairly well done technobabble.
And Meta Crisis technically is The Doctor. Depending on how you look at it. But I don't want to start getting into arguments over that. All I'm just saying, If they do decide to continue the Valeyard storyline, Meta Crisis Doctor is one way to go with it. As I said in earlier comments, I have doubts myself, but its not outside the realms of possibility.
Yeah. I am not arguing he is the Doctor as he contains his memories and thoughts and even past lives, Though the only thing he can't do is regenerate so i am not sure how the Valeyard would fit in.
i agree silurians and sea devils should return and kill the humans maybe zygons too or some other classic monster they gave a great hit episode and then decided to do nothing else with
The Doctor regenerated when in the 10th form so David Tennant is in essence the 10th and 11th Doctor, meaning that there can only be 12 faces of The Doctor. Matt Smith is the 11th therefore the Valeyard cannot be the 13th because there is no 13th Doctor.
You DO realize the Time Lords, as revealed here, can trade over regenerations, and in The Five Doctors, promised a full thirteen lives to The Master right?
that would be something if the 13th doctor was about to finally die but the master gives up his last incarnations for him - id call that a classic ending for the master
I personally think it won't be the last regeneration. I think of it as 12.5. The Doctor will regenerate from his 12th incarnation into the Valeyard, to feel and see how evil he could have been, the great "what if", then when The Doctor sorts through his own thoughts and past, he'll regeneration into the 13th and last form. His greatest form ever, of pure good and time. That's just what I think.
Actually it will probably be more of a split regeneration with his evil distillation being created at the same time as his 13th persona.
RTD did a great job building the Doctor's dark side in the first four seasons of the new series but I'm not sure if SM (or future producer) is going follow-up on the Valeyard character. I hope I'm wrong because it could make for some great stories.
What does the valeyard look like.
antaloliver 3 days ago
Now get this (LOL) all you who are arguing over whether or not a Time Lord, in partic the Doctor, cud have over 12 or 13 regenerations: This is canonical Doctor Who: All the doc wud have to do to get any number of regenerations is to assemble the Key to Time & speak what he wants over the assembled key (cube), since the assembled key enables one to be omnipotent.
Thunkful2 1 month ago
could u upload this scene without the music please? i cant understand them
roxasofthedark 1 month ago
I can't believe they did away with Gallifrey; it was an essential motif in the story, the hypocritical Time Lords' planet. Between 2 regenerations a regeneration? That is a joke.
I didn't like the way the 6th Dr. series ended. I liked Colin Baker, tho my favorite (& ever in my mind the real doctor) is Tom Baker, having just the right balance between seriousness & humor. Colin IMHO went just a little overboard on the humor.
Thunkful2 2 months ago
What song is being used in this video?
JustAWeepingAngel 2 months ago
So this means that after all these dventures, the Doctor is destined to be evil.
Guess there's no point in watching anymore since we know that the Doctor becoming the Valeyard is a set in stone, absolute guarantee. Because we see the proof standing right there.
So you got a favorite Doctor? Doesn't matter. Whichever may be your favorite, this epsidoe proves he'll end up a villain. All the adventures. All the heroics. All for nothing. The Valeyard is the end of that.
ReverendSyn 2 months ago
@Rev
Just a brief manifestation in an evil form.
Thunkful2 2 months ago
@ReverendSyn on the contrary, time can be rewritten. the doctor is yet destined to be the valeyard. he has, and he still can re wright time over and over again.
roxasofthedark 1 month ago
@ReverendSyn also. in order for the doctor to be the valeyard he would need to travel back to galifray witch is quantom locked. and un accessible. theres no way the doctor could be there now from the 2009+ series
roxasofthedark 1 month ago
@roxasofthedark Wrong. As clearly stated, only the Time War is time-locked. Therefore, it is still possible.
mitmfan 1 month ago
@mitmfan
Still possible? What if the doc reassembled the Key to Time??? What would then be impossible?
Thunkful2 1 month ago
@Thunkful2 Assuming the Doctor does remember this event, I doubt the Doctor would use the Key to Time in that manner, perhaps because it is making his life easier, so to speak. It isn't like the Doctor to use absolute power to be omnipotent or get rid of any hardships in his life.
(Besides, I'm sure the White Guardian would make sure no one used the power like that. Isn't that what the Black Guardian is for? Even if it's not, I'm sure the White Guardian won't allow it.)
mitmfan 2 weeks ago
@mitmfan LOL be debate in fantasy land.
Don't u recall The Key to Time when the doc hovered over the Key & his eyes rolled for a second as if the omnipotent power was about to corrupt him? He could have ordered the White Guardian out of existence at that point. Tho I think the WG said he needed the key assembled briefly to adjust the cosmos, but we never saw the WG doing any adjustings or hovering over the key. Why not use it to save Gallifrey? exactly the purpose it has.
Thunkful2 1 week ago
@Thunkful2 Also, the original post said something like "Gallifrey is time-locked so the Valeyard can't return there" and I asked "Only the Time War, not all of Gallifrey, is time-locked". Your statement would only make sense if the Doctor were to somehow use the power to prevent the Valeyard from going to Gallifrey.
mitmfan 2 weeks ago
@roxasofthedark
There is no way? What if he assembled the Key to Time again & spoke the quantom lock out of existence?
Thunkful2 1 month ago
@ReverendSyn The original story was exactly that: The Valeyard was meant to be the inevitable future of the Doctor. The actual story is less clear, and seems to imply that the Valeyard could somehow exist independent of the Doctor (excess evil energy breaking off from him during regeneration?).
ShadowSonic2 2 weeks ago
@ReverendSyn Colin Baker was billions of times, better as Bayban in Blake's Seven in the episode city at the edge of the world. Colin should in my view have been cast, as Roj Blake in B7 and if Colin Baker had played Blake instead of Gareth Thomas he would have not only been a very different Blake but Colin would have stayed in B7 for season 3 and it is a possibility B7 could have run much longer than it actually did and Blake would be the best lead part in B7 for Colin to portray.
rojblake82 5 days ago
See, under Galifreyan law, a Time Lord is only allowed 13 (I think, I could be wrong about this number) regenerations. This is not a fact about Time Lord biology, but about their rights under Galifreyan law. Galifrey, however, is no more, so this law is obsolete.
IncidentalChopstics 3 months ago 2
@IncidentalChopstics *SPOILER ALERT* That is, of course, disregarding River giving the Doctor her remaining regenerations.
IncidentalChopstics 3 months ago
@IncidentalChopstics Incorrect. It is a fact about Time Lords. Just like the fact they have two hearts or they have mastered time travel abilities. Just because the Time Lords are gone doesn't mean the Doctor has as many incarnations as he wants. Just like if you were the last human, you wouldn't grow an extra head or be able to survive being shot in the head. Nowhere does it state that the 13 incarnations are a law--it is however part of their biology.
mitmfan 2 months ago
@mitmfan [Citation Needed]
IncidentalChopstics 2 months ago
@IncidentalChopstics I could say the same about you. Citation needed!
mitmfan 1 month ago
@mitmfan
But you may recall that in The Five Doctors, some achieved immortality as gargoyle heads on Rassilon's coffin. & it looked like Rassilon himself had immortality as a holograph. Of course the Daleks may have destroyed all that.
Thunkful2 2 months ago
@Thunkful2 I think Colin was ace in Blake's Seven as Bayban but I think Colin should, have been cast as Blkae in Blake's Seven in billions of ways.
rojblake82 2 months ago
@rojblake
I like Colin Baker. I started watching Blake's Seven, but I lost track of it having to work. It seemed odd how so soon there was no more any Blake in the show! Couldn't they bring a bloke to be Blake?
Thunkful2 1 month ago
@Thunkful2 What do you mean could,nt they bring a bloke to be Blake?. I cannot understand that comment, I think Colin Baker should have been cast as Blake when they made Blake's Seven assuming Colin had been available and if he had been approached to play Blake. I can imagine Colin Baker as Blake, and he would have stuck around longer as Blake than Gareth Thomas did. I can imagine if Colin Baker had been offered, the part of Blake and he had been available he would have jumped at it
rojblake82 1 month ago
@rojblake82
I think this is done with soap operas from time to time: a new actor is given the role of someone who quits, & they go on pretending its the same person. In other words, get a new actor for the part.
Thunkful2 1 month ago
@mitmfan
Have you forgot the Key to Time?
Thunkful2 1 month ago
12 regenerations. 13 actors 12 incarnations of the original
ryananderson280195 3 months ago
I thought the doctor and all timelords could only have 12 regenerations
peanutcat10 3 months ago
In "The Wedding of River Song", Dorian (did I spell it right?) said that the Doctor had a long and dangerous past but his future was infinitely more terrifying and the Silence feel that it must be averted. So does the Silence know that the Valeyard gets created after MS's Doctor? If so, then the story gets more and more interesting.
upchuck69 4 months ago
Why the really loud music over the top making it unlistenable?
JoelJoel321 4 months ago
the dream lord the time lord victorious its all leading to the valeyard and moffat better deliver because it should be epic
bigjavo36 4 months ago
i still say the valeyard was what the doctor saw in his room in "the god complex"
makes SO much more sense since the cloister bell WAS going off in there. . .
TheEdward4ever 5 months ago 3
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colin baker, the only man who can pull off a blond afro
LTGeraldo 5 months ago
the crack on the wall, the doctor becoming the most feared being in the universe, the supposed war against him, maybe it's not just what he's becoming now, but he might be in the future. maybe the valeyard already happened and messed up the timestream. what i wanna know is will they bring the watcher back to help him go to the next incarnation (whether it's the 12th or the 13th)
jumpingflyingsadfish 6 months ago
@jumpingflyingsadfish just wondering, Do you think that Ood Sigma could have represented the watcher since he was there when 10 started nearing his regeneration shortly after journeys end? Cause if they do bring him back (a highly unlikely prospect since nobody knows the lifespan of an Ood anyways) that would bring things into a bigger perspective, but is any of it making any sense?
TheEdward4ever 5 months ago
@TheEdward4ever That could be possible, he did tell the Doctor his song was ending. Much like how the 4th's time was ending. But about him being back, that would be cool. Only problem is if he's going to warn the Doctor of what he might become. How the Ood warned the Doctor of the Master's return, do you think the Silents, leaders of the Silence, are warning the coming of the Valeyard?
jumpingflyingsadfish 4 months ago
Obviously the Dream Lord is the Valeyard. think about it: the darkness the doctor had inside suddenly woke up in his 11th incarnation, just one step closer to the 12th. But i don't think 10.5 doctor is gonna be the valeyard, cos the master did say it was around the doctor's 12th and 13th incarnation not 10th. and watching the series of the 11th doctor, i see it growing darker and darker like getting ready for what he might become.
jumpingflyingsadfish 6 months ago
hey man. lets relax with the music. so we can hear the timelords talk
johnTRAN93 6 months ago 12
they will just ignor this story when it comes round to the 12th regeneration, and rightly so.
badhead 6 months ago
its pretty obvious here ... the valeyard is the meta crisis doctor ... the 10th doctor's stopped regeneration still counts as such since the meta crisis doctor was created so it would make sense if the meta crisis doctor couldnt regenerate obviously he would want the remainer of the 6th doctors regenerations
spikieboy228 7 months ago
@spikieboy228 That would be true, but the meta crisis doctor in journeys end said that he can grow old. perhaps that they would let that slide, however that still leaves the question on what happens to rose.
Scotsman707 6 months ago
@spikieboy228 Sorry but that is quite impossible. If they made it so then it would negate what is stated in the clip. Tennant was the tenth doctor not the twelfth so it is impossible. Bsides if they did do that they would upset the fans of rose and turn others off from it. I heard sum1 theorsie the valeyard is the dream lord. I assume regenerative energy will flow from the doctor and create the valeyard yet the doctor would still regenerate. He would bcome his last incarnation and vy would live.
darkironyoshi 6 months ago
@spikieboy228 no, the stopped regenration DOESNT count you idiot
HeyArnoldsspleen 6 months ago
@HeyArnoldsspleen
He did use up a regeneration to be fair.
He simply managed to send the rest of the energy to his spare hand.
tom133991 5 months ago
Why Why Why? matt said he can regenerate 507 times :( :( :( 13 sounded soo good :(
MyTubeVersion3 8 months ago
@MyTubeVersion3 Well, they regenrate 12 times, giving them a total of 13 live counting the first.
5+0+7= 12
I anycase, I suspect something that's been a major plot point in multiple episodes would carry more weight than a throw away gag in a spin off.
Gunganbuster 7 months ago
@Gunganbuster Great braking down the code. I know who the last doctor is: JeriCHOOOO!!!!!!
MyTubeVersion3 7 months ago
i think the timelords are going to come back some how (like, a parallel universe with time lords? i dunno ......) and give the doctor a new life cycle. like they were going to do in The Five Doctors for the Master if he rescued all the doctors incarnations from the death zone. and steven moffat has go to find a way around the doctor getting killed by the astronaut. remember :- in the doctor who movie, the seventh doctor was dead for some time before regenerating into the 8th doctor.
animationdude56 8 months ago
@animationdude56 and then the 8th had amnesia
dbn300100 7 months ago
@dbn300100 but only for a short time
animationdude56 7 months ago
@animationdude56 about 10 minutes.
dbn300100 7 months ago
@dbn300100 yeah.
animationdude56 7 months ago
@animationdude56 odd.
dbn300100 7 months ago
@animationdude56
Hey dude, what if the doc simply reassembles the Key to Time?
Thunkful2 1 month ago
One point for this whole argument. The future can change.
ZoomingSkittles89 8 months ago
@whosammut How about take 2, were you dial down those noises a bit? Can't hear what they're fucking saying.
silarnon 8 months ago
@silarnon Well i can here it perfectly, If you cant, that your tough luck !! Get a better sound system !
Or better yet, go out and buy the boxset !!! As the info says this video is made for a 5.1 audio system. If you dont have a 5.1 system that the audio will be distorted.
whosammut 8 months ago
Those sound effects are annoying, you can't hear a lot of the dialouge.
piemakesmelol 9 months ago
Since they "rebooted" DW they have completly pissed on the dialogue not paying attention to past episodes but instead creating new idea's hence as long as the earth is still around there will always be docter who.
TheBoyofnothing 9 months ago
@whosammut That was silly of you.
MeBeMat 9 months ago
I love a good debate !! :D
whosammut 9 months ago
That's not his 12th regeneration. First off, that video is so old, the Valiard is probably dead by now, so it would be impossible to have him as the Doctor.
Secondly:
The Master said it was an amalgamation of all the evil/darkness the doctor felt/held in his heart, from his first regeneration to the 12th.
(i.e. an incarnation of all the evil inside the doctor, stripped away from him and given its own separate life. It needs the doctor's remaining regenerations to live.)
loderian 9 months ago 2
@MrAODWay Generally, the reason I htink the scores are so loud on these rescores is because the music is already mixed into the original episode. If you want to do a rescore, the music has to be louder than the original score or they could become a jumbled mess of music.
tf2whackyengineer 9 months ago
@OneWingedRose the doctor did not fully complete his regeneration because he got shot then died.
Alphamask978 10 months ago
So wait, the Dreamlord/Valeyard will take over between the Doctor's 12th and 13th regenerations? The doctor has regenerated 12 times now (including when his excess energy was absorbed into his cut off hand) which means that the reason Matt Smith had to die at 1103 was to prevent the Valeyard from taking over?
OneWingedRose 10 months ago 20
@OneWingedRose Well I've never thought about it like that... You might be onto something here!
abgreenbank 10 months ago
@OneWingedRose Not quite. The Valeyard gets created sometime during the Doctor's 12th persona, not after he has regenerated 12 times. Matt Smith is the 11th Doctor but has regenerated 10 times and the meta-crisis Doctor does not count as a regeneration. He stopped the regeneration process with the help of his severed hand. People always get confused by that. We likely won't see the Valeyard under Matt Smith (although we might see hints of him) but we should likely see him in the next Doctor.
upchuck69 9 months ago
@OneWingedRose Or the Valeyard is the future Dream Lord
redjirachi1 7 months ago
@OneWingedRose Sssssssssshhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!! SPOILERS!
Theronnnnnnnnn 6 months ago
@OneWingedRose The Valeyard is just his evil remains. Like a bad crap. There will be a good 13th doctor and he will be the best.
fkylw 3 months ago
@fkylw I wish Colin Baker had played Blake in Blake's Seven, instead of Gareth thomas if Colin had played Blake he would have stayed longer than two seasons and Colin Bkaer in my view shoudl have been cast as Blake.
rojblake82 3 months ago
@OneWingedRose but as for now the doctor is (spoilers)
mspeter97 3 months ago
@OneWingedRose it was actually a robot that looks like the 11th doctor was killed by astrounout
dudimon1 1 month ago
@dudimon1 he couldn't know that 8 months ago
Dakeytar 1 month ago
@OneWingedRose The Doctor can't prevent the inevitable. Waters of Mars taught him that. The Valeyard must be created. There's no way out of it. I don't know if Tennant's giving life to his hand counts as a regeneration. I think we have 1 more regen. left before the Valeyard is born. The Valeyard, I think, is a physical manifestation or embodiment of the Dark Doctor. Remember what 10 said about the Time War - "Nothing can get in or out, unless something that was already there."
rohgenextfan 1 month ago
would have been better without the new series music overpowering the speech
NekoChanMaasta 11 months ago
@NekoChanMaasta You kidding? I think the music made this scene 1,00,00 times better lol I actually wish they took out the original OST in this scene and just left the speach and the music :D But I d agree that the new music was a bit too loud lol.
kingt34 10 months ago
@kingt34 That whispery operatic music from Tennant's era has gradually started to really annoy me. Especially after hearing how awesome the series 5 music is.
Maybe I should find this scene and put some series 5 stuff in :D
NekoChanMaasta 10 months ago 2
would have been better without the new series music overpowering the speach
NekoChanMaasta 11 months ago
I like that it's implied that a Time Lord's regenerations can be transferred to another Time Lord. Then we've got a way around the 13 limit; The 13th Doctor (right before his death) encounters another Time Lord (who's in his/her first incarnation), who transfers it's remaining 12 lives, to the Doctor, allowing him to regenerate again. Giving us a 14th Doctor, with the potential for another 11 regenerations.
TheMoonknight75 11 months ago
i bet that the docter will be on that final regenerated and he meets anouther time lord which does something to give him anouther 12 more regenerations or something like that
6oobs 1 year ago
I heard actually the doctor has 502 regenerations.
luckyleprachaun7 1 year ago
@luckyleprachaun7 T'was a joke.
OpenMawProductions 1 year ago
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@OpenMawProductions What proof do you have.
luckyleprachaun7 1 year ago
@chrisaira silurians have returned! your wish came true
dalekjoe8 1 year ago
If the BBC wouldn't have been asses and trashed the 6th Doctor before his time, we'd have probably got a better look at this not at all bad story line
LilRonin01 1 year ago
The Valeyard (meaning "Doctor of Law") was supposed to be all that was evil in the Doctor, formed between his twelfth and thirteenth incarnations. HOWEVER, Robert Holmes' original idea (which got vetoed) was that he was the Doctor's last incarnation, old and frail and afraid to die, which would have been a very interesting idea.
ericinwisconsin 1 year ago
@ericinwisconsin I agree the Robert Holmes original idea would have made an amazing story ending (the 6th and 13th Doctor plunging into the matrix). But the problem was that JNT was afraid that the original story would have given the BBC the excuse to permanently cancel Doctor Who in 1986. And had that happened, I highly doubt that the show would have ever been revived.
upchuck69 1 year ago
@upchuck69 Yes, good point. JNT got stuck in the job of producer. He wanted to move on, but the Beeb said that if he did, the would cancel DW. Creatively, he should have left when Peter Davison did or maybe even before. The end result is that he stayed on for the sake of the show and it just got worse and worse.
ericinwisconsin 1 year ago
@ericinwisconsin I agree. The show overall got progressively worse as the 1980's went on. The only consistently good series was Sylvester McCoy's last year in 1989 but it was too little too late by then. I always felt bad for Colin Baker because he played a great Doctor but was screwed by bad stories, weak acting and his tacky outfit. The irony in all this is that JNTs bad decisions (especially with TOAT) may have inadvertently led to the later restoration of DW, but that's just my opinion.
upchuck69 1 year ago
The Valeyard is coming back next year I've heard.
darrenmsparrow 1 year ago
@chrisaira me too!
greatsayain 1 year ago
@chrisaira did u hear the news? they are scrapping the 13 life limit. it's going to be a one line retcon like the limit was never there.
greatsayain 1 year ago
@greatsayain Im not suprised, as i reminded Stephen Moffat in the last episode of last season Amy pulled The Doctor out of absolute nothingness for her wedding - that would possibly make him a fixed point in time just like Jack Harkness, this time a being with an infinite Regeneration cycle, like Rassilon.
MrGarath 1 year ago
@MrGarath You spoke directly to Stephen Moffat? I don't know about your explaination, Amy's memory is not equal to the heart of the tardis. if the Dr is a fixed point by that logic then so are amy's parents and lots of other things. If they did explain it like that that might be ok but i haven't heard that they will.
If you've seen the 5 Dr.s you know rassilon's form of immortality isn't very useful and it isn't infinite regenerations. They fully resurrected him for the time war.
greatsayain 1 year ago
@greatsayain
When Amy woke up on her wedding day the universe was more or less the way it was supposed to be eccept that The Doctor who was in the TARDIS was destroyed at the same time the Universe "rebooted" itself, he wouldn't have ever existed,(the heart of the TARDIS would have been silenced once and for all) Amy calling him back into existance would be creating something out of nothing, an even more cosmicly profound event than Rose resurecting Jack.
I simply aluded to a POSSIBILITY.
MrGarath 1 year ago
@greatsayain That was likely a joke as if you add all three numbers the doctor gave is 13. Russel I believe mentioned that the idea of 507 regens will likely be retconned immediately by Moffat and remember The Doctor lies.
Kharandis 1 year ago
@Kharandis Russel T Davis? how does he know what Moffat plans to do?
But yeah i agree. when i say the clip it didn't seem liek the doctor was being serious.
greatsayain 1 year ago
@Kharandis He was trying to impress the kid. Eleven tries to impress like, any kid he comes across. One of his attempts to impress a kid almost resulted in death by shark. Lying is not below him, at least not when it comes to information about his person (He tells Wilf he's 906 on one day, and the next day, he tells Amy he's 907....)
KendrixTermina 1 year ago
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@chrisaira
The Problem remains that the show is not ran the same way it was, Russell T. Davies showed time and time again that he understood the subtlties of 'Doctor Who the same way a Fruit Bat knows the subtlties of the International Space Station.
When it came to the Cybermen he deliberately ignored the fact that there would be Telos Cybermen in the Universe and recreated them.
Stephen Moffatt is better but when he makes mistakes ('Genesis Daleks' for example) they stand out.
MrGarath 1 year ago
@chrisaira
The Problem remains that the show is not ran the same way it was, Russell T. Davies showed time and time again that he understood the subtlties of 'Doctor Who the same way a Fruit Bat knows the subtlties of the International Space Station.
When it came to the Cybermen he deliberately ignored the fact that there would be Telos Cybermen in the Universe and recreated them.
Stephen Moffatt is better but when he makes mistakes ('Genesis Daleks' for example) they stand out.
MrGarath 1 year ago
@MrGarath he didn't ignore it. there was a telos cyberman head in the undergraound museum in "dalek". in the alternate universe , the doctor says "i've seen this happen before" it is recognized. He just chose to start fresh with the cybus cybermen. I tihnk it was a good decision. maybe the telos ones will show up again. I'm not sure how baldy they were beaten the last time the doctor saw them. there could be nothing left.
greatsayain 1 year ago
@greatsayain The ones in "the pandorica opens" could have been telos cybermen. (and they used the same design because of ca$h)
KendrixTermina 1 year ago
@KendrixTermina Good idea, but obviously we've seen then changing their chest plates twice so now we don't know what they are, being new doctor who they are probably gonna to to the trouble of making a brand new planet for Cybermen to breed making them unlike the true Cybermen we loved. But good idea. :)
JerryTheDoc 8 months ago
Comment removed
MrGarath 1 year ago
There will be no last regeneration! If the show keeps running and making money why would they end it? And their not American so I don't think they'll half ass it and make it terrible, so that only the die hard fan-boys keep watching. At least not anytime too soon.
Joflyer0211 1 year ago
@Joflyer0211
Perpetuating it without end brings a whole new range of problems, simple ecconomics says that it will reduce in it's profitability one day,and probably soon.
I expect they are mindfull of that fact in prepairing for the future.
MrGarath 1 year ago
whats the music at the end with bongo
DHD999 1 year ago
I think that the reason that River kills the Doctor, it that's what happens is because she knows who he will become if he lives. I also believe that all the Doctor's enemies ally against him because they know also who he will become, and will work together to try to prevent it from happening. I think it was the Valeyard that took over the TARDIS, and tried to blow it up at the end of series 5. Too bad he didn't damage it enough to cause another interior change. It looks like a reject set fr
pjm8071 1 year ago
Wot if river song is an alternative to the doctor? I no it's sounds strange! But wen the doctor sez bout river piloting the tardis in the pandorica opens the dalek sez only the doctor can fly the tardis! Also how would she no all that info bout the doctor like his name all his faces she has a sonic screwdriver that's better than his own in silence of the library I no she claims that it's from him and it saves her at the end of that episode! it's possible she being the doctor found a way to save
Cure9269 1 year ago
@Cure9269 but also how does she know to write in Gallifrayan? coz she writes on the box of that ship in it in the weeping angels ep + on that big oldest cliff face in gallifrayan in the pandorica opens lol ???
TheJCSM 1 year ago
The Valeyard is 'an amalgamation of your darker sides somewhere between your 11th and final incarnations" So he's not the final regeneration. He's not an actual Doctor, he's a metaphysical being. Your dark side is not you.
Chrisfs59 1 year ago
@Chrisfs59 kind of like the dream lord then?
antony492 1 year ago
@Chrisfs59 Yay, he's somewhat like the DreamLord from series 5, only that he was created by Time Lord technology instead of psychic pollen, and of course, they got his entire life's worth of evil from the future.
KendrixTermina 1 year ago
@chrisaira gallifrey is not returning... where do you have that from? lol
hcvang 1 year ago
@upchuck69 maybe I reckon there's more to river song than meets the eye! Remember in flesh and stone when the doctor is told not to trust her by farther Octavian and that she killed a man the the doc asked her who he was? And she said he was the greatest man I every new! Perhaps she kills the doc? Only time will tell I have a theory though bout river I think she could be romana only she's regenerated so doctor wouldn't no! That would explain how she knows so much bout him?
Cure9269 1 year ago
@Cure9269 I've heard that rumour bouncing around but as far as I remember Romana was never in love with the Doctor but River Song certainly is. My guess is that is that River Song is half-Time Lord/ half human and that Romana could be her mother. In any case, the next season/series is going to be very interesting and hope to see more of the Doctor's dark side showing up.
upchuck69 1 year ago
Sorry but good guest try again she was ask she was married I think she kill her husband
davidrollercoaster 1 year ago
@Cure9269 River killing the doc (or being his wife, for that matter) is far too simple. We'll find out who she is in Series 6. My theory is that she is a former minion of the Silence who later turns against the silence and joins the doc's side.
KendrixTermina 1 year ago
Brilliant idea bet the writers new though they would see after all these years that doctor who would reach doc 11 in matt smith I bet there sat at home wondering if Moffat will write this into his script into the future! Maybe when smith leaves one day!
Cure9269 1 year ago
@Cure9269 I certainly hope SM brings the Valeyard after Matt Smith but I wonder if he has already started after watching "Amy's Choice" with the Dreamlord. It appears that the Doctor's dark side is starting to take its own personality. I also wonder when the Doctor ultimately marries and loses River Song if that will also trigger his dark side to come to the surface.
upchuck69 1 year ago
hmm this is interesting this means that the master might be able to come back from the timewar which means the other time lords could too.
and i like the look of fear that the valeyard has on his face
CymruAlteran 1 year ago 10
I love the fact tath servalan is on the high council
buffykidd1971 1 year ago
time can change
Escander 1 year ago
the valeyard is as described within the word of the episode a synthisis of the doctors 12th and final incarnations as such he maybe a tantilising glimps or shodow of the final and penultimate doctor's form, however since clearly the events of the time war superseed the events of the ultimate foe wether the time line has alreafy been altered is open to some debate. (personally I'd love them to get this actor back into the new series as a future doctor as he is still alive)
LexiPopuli 1 year ago
But what about how the doctor's hand turned into a different half human doctor that preformed genocide agianst the dilects the one that went with rose. He could be the valeyard.
ilikethewatts 1 year ago
The Valeyard... After "Amy's Choice", I can't stop thinking that maybe he might have already be born!!
bellec162 1 year ago
@bellec162 The Valeyard was *created* by Time Lord conspirationalists.... but of course, from the same 'source material' as the villain in "Amy's choice"... And you notice the similarities: Incredible intelligence, weird humor, teleporting themselves around and of course, the good old "guild-trip-him-about-the-girl" strategy.
KendrixTermina 1 year ago
Really good timing with the "Doctor's Theme" with the revelation.
UnanimousDelivers 1 year ago
Ahh! Already, I see clues to the coming of the Valeyard. If you watched the latest episode (2) of the new series 5... it is hinted... the doctor... in the moment of impossible choice, he is forced to 'end' and then proposes a name change because he won't be "The Doctor" anymore. However, I do not think his last regeneration turns him this way. Rather, it forms off from between a regeneration. perhaps a being opposite of to The Watcher that comes out of the doctor..? eh.. stretched speculation..
wowhatheck 1 year ago
I Can Barely Hear The Voices, The Score Is Too Loud
JoeyDPro2009 1 year ago
The Master has to be lying! Right?! : (
Metroid02099 2 years ago
Nope, he is the Doctor.
izayoi2006 2 years ago 2
Well yes and no. The old series obviously is still cannon. So when a classic villian returns then they and the Doctor know each other, Sarah Jane made a reapearance, things like the Daleks origins and stuff is established as still being relevant. However some stuff is ignored. Now Moffat has made a statement that no more classic villians will be returning. So The Valeyard's storyline may well be forgotten. That said, he may make an exception for Matt Smiths finale whenever that comes around.
Protectorett 2 years ago
That's interesting that Steve Moffat said that because I read in an earlier review that he was a big fan of the classic Doctors (Especially Troughton, Pertwee and Baker). But I suppose he wants to cater to the newer audiences. Still he would be a fool to ignore the Valeyard character as the buildup to his creation and the battle to destroy him could make for some powerful stories.
upchuck69 2 years ago
He is a big fan of the classic series. He said he first tried to get a job at 7. But yes he probably does want to keep with newer audiences. I don't know how much he applies that though. I know that existing revived villians will be staying, the season 5 trailer shows some redesigned daleks. He may just say that only he won't be making any old villians returning. Other writers might be allowed to, or they might not. He may make an exception for the Valeyard, he might not. I honestly do not know.
Protectorett 2 years ago
Well-Russell T. Davies hasn't forgotten this-look at the end of The Waters of Mars!
numutabin 2 years ago
when i mean 2 12th doctors i mean differant person as in incarnation
doctorwho786 2 years ago
I hope that he doesn't because that will ruin the point of the show, the name of it, the nature of it and the popularity and also the point of their being anymore regenerations so I hope that while he is regenerating something happenes to make two 12th Doctors as it will be hard to defeat himself and it has a good storyline and you could make a whole series of that and the popularity will go up!
Until next time Alonsy!
Au revoir!
Bye...etc!
doctorwho786 2 years ago
But an evil doctor and a good doctor makes sense. The current Doctor becomes more and more darker as every incarnation passes.
rohgenextfan 2 years ago
I personally think the Meta Crisis Doctor will become the Valeyard if they ever decide to follow up on this at all. I mean, Rose is suposedly returning for End of Time. So they may well bring back the Meta Crisis Doctor and then they could work in some story where he somehow becomes the Valeyard. I doubt it myself but it would be a good story if they did go with that.
Protectorett 2 years ago
@Protectorett: I doubt that. I'd prefer the Master be correct in this video. I want to wait for the 12th Doctor for the Valeyard's "birth".
rohgenextfan 2 years ago 2
Well you say that but depending on whether or not the stolen earth regeneration counted, Matt Smiths doctor will be the 12th. If the Meta Crisis Doctor did somehow manage to regenerate he would technically be the 12th Doctor. Again I doubt the writers will actually follow up on that but the Meta Crisis Doctor could potentially become the Valeyard. Really we don't know for sure. I guess we'll find out at Christmas.
Protectorett 2 years ago
The Meta-Crisis Doctor is not and will not become the Valeyard he is part human and can not regenerate nor aviod death and ages as Humans do, The Valeyard is an entity between the Doctors twelfth and final incarnations.
TheSecondCrash4563 2 years ago
I'm just putting that forward as a theory. And don't think that its impossible for him to regenerate too. Remember that this is Doctor Who. What happened when the first doctor decided to retire? 'This guy has the ability to change his body entirely!' In something like Doctor Who, anything can happen, so long as you explain it with some fairly well done technobabble.
Protectorett 2 years ago
I Suppose so. Anyway the Valeyard is an entitiy in by which the Doctor himself will become not the Meta-Crisis Tenth Doctor he is a Human-Time Lord.
TheSecondCrash4563 2 years ago
And Meta Crisis technically is The Doctor. Depending on how you look at it. But I don't want to start getting into arguments over that. All I'm just saying, If they do decide to continue the Valeyard storyline, Meta Crisis Doctor is one way to go with it. As I said in earlier comments, I have doubts myself, but its not outside the realms of possibility.
Protectorett 2 years ago
Yeah. I am not arguing he is the Doctor as he contains his memories and thoughts and even past lives, Though the only thing he can't do is regenerate so i am not sure how the Valeyard would fit in.
TheSecondCrash4563 2 years ago
Well we have a number of options for that. The possibilities are limited only by Moffat's imagination.
Protectorett 2 years ago
Yeah. The Valeyard may return and attempt to have existance by stealing the Doctors lives but like you said Moffat will make the choice of that.
TheSecondCrash4563 2 years ago
I suppose we'll just have to wait and see.
Protectorett 2 years ago
Yeah. Hopefully have not seen him on TV for a long time.
TheSecondCrash4563 2 years ago
i agree silurians and sea devils should return and kill the humans maybe zygons too or some other classic monster they gave a great hit episode and then decided to do nothing else with
foxster1307 2 years ago
i think the zygons would work well with the sea devils
foxster1307 2 years ago
The music completely overshadows the actors in this clip.. :(
atomicxblue 2 years ago 2
The Doctor regenerated when in the 10th form so David Tennant is in essence the 10th and 11th Doctor, meaning that there can only be 12 faces of The Doctor. Matt Smith is the 11th therefore the Valeyard cannot be the 13th because there is no 13th Doctor.
SVWillmer 2 years ago
but he david never regenerated into himself he healed himself then stopped the regenerastive process and as you said faces not regenerations
doctorwho786 2 years ago
Rose's Doctor is not the Valeyard.
rohgenextfan 2 years ago
I think ? he mate return in the last ever
episode in doctor who because the doctor
has 13 regenaration.
doctor3333333 2 years ago
You DO realize the Time Lords, as revealed here, can trade over regenerations, and in The Five Doctors, promised a full thirteen lives to The Master right?
There will never be a "last ever" episode.
HeyArnoldsspleen 2 years ago
Ok.
doctor3333333 2 years ago
Unless the BBC decides to take his regenerations away....LOL.
upchuck69 2 years ago
that would be something if the 13th doctor was about to finally die but the master gives up his last incarnations for him - id call that a classic ending for the master
RegenerationStorm 2 years ago
I personally think it won't be the last regeneration. I think of it as 12.5. The Doctor will regenerate from his 12th incarnation into the Valeyard, to feel and see how evil he could have been, the great "what if", then when The Doctor sorts through his own thoughts and past, he'll regeneration into the 13th and last form. His greatest form ever, of pure good and time. That's just what I think.
MrPsychic8472 2 years ago
Actually it will probably be more of a split regeneration with his evil distillation being created at the same time as his 13th persona.
RTD did a great job building the Doctor's dark side in the first four seasons of the new series but I'm not sure if SM (or future producer) is going follow-up on the Valeyard character. I hope I'm wrong because it could make for some great stories.
upchuck69 2 years ago