Ukraine and (some of) its capitals pt 2

[ADmitriyua]

Почему все так мрачтно? бред...

[glennmollergren]

@ADmitriyua. Eto vopros o vkuse. Mne nravitsa tak, drugomu po raznamu. Esli khotite, pozjalujsta sdelat' slideshow ob Ukraine bolshe vesolyj.

[glennmollergren]

Oh... Don't blame the swedes, I'm pretty un-Swedish. Anyway it's really constructive to go hating entire nations because of one guy, isn't it?

After that ... would you mind telling me what's so terrible? How has your life been ruined?

[glennmollergren]

Well, no one has had the idea Sweden has anything to do with Lwow...

[glennmollergren]

"I hate Russia and USA.Now I hate also Sweden. "

That's the first thing you wrote. If you don't hate all these nations, fine.

I agree - Warszawa isn't the prettiest place. I guess mr Hitler is to blame - at least he was the one commanding it to be destroyed. Still, you're free to go to Lwow or any other beautiful place, you don't have to "claim" every piece of earth that historically is connected to your passport. The only result of this kind of thinking will be more wars.

[glennmollergren]

Well - what can I say. I am aware of polish suffering as well as polish rule throughout the centuries and I didn't mean to hurt anyones' feelings by omitting some parts. It's only that, in countries with as complex a history as that of Ukraine, it's just not possible to go very deep in a couple of minutes narratory.

However, at least for the polish, Ukraine is today very accesible. All the ancestors of killed or deported polish people can easily visit their roots.

[glennmollergren]

This is very visible in Lwow, as you say, where polish is by far the largest group of foriegn tourists there.

If you compare with the Jewish: First of all, almost all were killed. Second, what was left of their religious and cultural heritage, was destroyed either by ukrainian or german fascists, or simply deteriorated after the war.

[glennmollergren]

Third, it's very hard for ordinary israelians today even to visit and travel around in Ukraine.

This is not to say Lwow "shouldn't" belong to Poland. Everyone knows Ukraine is a much bigger country today than it would've been a hundred years ago.

On the other hand: every national claim suggests a specific date as the starting point. But there was always "someone else" living there before.

[glennmollergren]

And, most of all: if we are to save humanity from more Holocausts and wars - national claims have to rest on history's bookshelf.

I regularly meet hungarians in Transylvania "claiming" the land and this conflict has harvested lives also after 1945.

If swedish land was concerned, I'd be happy to give up every piece of it, especially if I was still allowed to visit it.

[glennmollergren]

So: Instead of trying to "mark" a place belonging to this or that "nation", I'm more into seeing the history behind, and trying to figure out how to protect beauty from the devastating force that is called Capitalism.

(Less flattering for both romanian and ukrainian nationalists: Virtually all Jews and Romas were living in Bukovina were exterminated in 1941-1944, by Romanian AND Ukrainian Fascists and nazi-collaborators. A dark chapter for both nations.)

[glennmollergren]

Gangstaro85 and Bukovintaras, I sincerely respect your engagement in this beautiful land. Looking from outside, all I can say is that to me, whatever state is in power, no land anywhere ever belonged to the common people - it's always been the upper classes or the elite who claimed everything.

On the other hand - Chernovtsy/Cernauti looks so beautiful today, because Austrohungarian Habsburgians built it as a capital hundreds of years ago. Not by themselves - but by using workforce of commons.

[gangstaro85]

Bucovina Nord - Romanian land with romanian customs,folklore and houses!! F.....g soviets stole it on november 24, 1918 like they did with the "republic of Moldova"... I only want to remind you that Cernauti is the land of Stefan cel Mare (stefan the great)...a great moldavian ruler!