Styles make fights. Liston was made to order for Ali, being slow, gutless, and having poor stamina. But, Liston would have had a much easier time with guys like Norton, where Ali's lousy left hook, inability to move forward effectively, and poor punching power made for very competitive fights.
Virtually all fighters have styles they don't like. Clay/Ali had a style Liston couldn't handle, and his weak willpower made him quit twice.
A prime Sonny moved and boxed well, this guy had a lot more than just power going for him. That telephone pole jab of his was incredible with the way he twisted it.
Would you fight with torn bicep muscle in his arm that he jabbed with . 7 FBI doctors examined him. He tried to have the bout postponed, however, wonderful Chris Dundee, talk about mobbed up people, had influence with the Miami boxing commission, These are facts. Period Verified by hank Kaplan the foremost boxing historian
@danadana77 shut up joe louis ,marciano ,walcott,alot more oh yea ali kicked his ass, they said sonny was gonna destroy ali ,alis not got a chance.the greatest of all time my ass u idiot
@danadana77 Liston's three best wins other than Patterson were this one and fights against Cleveland Williams and Zora Folley. Liston was great in his prime, but no one can really say how great. When your best wins were mostly against fringe contenders, I have a hard time calling you GOAT. He seems as formidable on paper as anyone ever, with his superhuman wingspan and viscious power, but I don't think he has the resume to back up any claims like that. Quitting on the stool, like he did
@johnwtanneriv If it's about a resume the Joe Louis is the GOAT in the heavyweight division. Ali got the push in his bout with Doug Jones and a few others. Sonny Liston was controlled by Blinky Palermo and Frankie Carbo so I think both those fights are suspect. Then you have the Frazier trilogy where Frazier takes the first and the other two were were given to Ali because you can't have Ali lose twice.
@QRF11B I scored the Jones bout 7-3 Ali. Frazier's corner threw in the towel after the 14th round of the 3rd fight, hardly a fight "given" to Ali. These are typical anti-Ali arguments. People who don't like him, or maybe just don't like his style of fighting claim every sort of close decision should have been a loss, but the fact is they were wins. Resume is about W's and L's, not could haves and should haves. Whether you win by 1 or 100, so to speak, doesn't factor in much to me.
@johnwtanneriv 1) No one gives a shit how you scored a fight. 2) Eddie Futch stopped the fight and Frazier didn't want it. 3) Ali is quoted as saying: "that was the closest to dying that I've ever been." 3) "Resume is about W's and L's" Absurd. When and how those W's and L's occurred must be factored in when analyzing a fighter.
4) You're an Ali fanboy who is incapable of clear perception.
@danadana77 against Ali, granted he was a bit past his peak, isn't something I would ever think of for the GOAT. Even if he was a couple years removed from his peak, quitting on a fight and possibly throwing another one knocks him out of the discussion of greatest for me.
Liston had an underrated jab in my opinion. The man had pretty nuts reach (84' .... I think) and had some power behind them. They didn't have the snap of a quicker fighter, like Ali, Liston's jabs thudded into you.
Liston was a great fighter. You can see that he had pretty good hand and foot speed and movement, good head movement, he'd avoid punches by ducking right OR left and the same with his foot movement. Not many fighters... even heavyweight champs have had the skills he had. Yeah... I think he took a dive in the second Ali fight, but he tried his best in the first one and there was no way he was going to win. I think the knockdown in the Ali fight was legitimate, but he didn't feel like getting up.
Sonny Liston was one tough fighter but he lost to Ali and the fights never lived up to their billing. Ali was the greatest but the way that Liston fought him was very suspicious to me.
You say there are no uppercuts landed at the end of round 3,THEN IN THE SAME POST,you admit he gets caught LOL!But now you use the excuse..''he gets caught because he's tired'' LMAO!
''What amazes me is that you keep arguing and clearly haven't made sure to watch it!''
liston was called a quitter against clay. no one ever mentions the fact that Cus D'amado wouldn't let Patterson near him in the late 50s. I wonder why i never hear Johanson, and Liston in the same sentence either? Johanson wanted no part of liston. I never hear Patterson-Cleveland Williams in the same sentence. how about Johanson- Williams? i just wonder why not. Liston waited for years for a title shot
those men were warriors..lol.. Now we have to deal with these chumps who wont take blood tests, money bs , heaight bs , etc. etc. that was when the science was alive and raw , i wonder how many of our fighters today would be able to go the distance like 15 rds. Liston was a beast.
"Harris is up again at the count of nine, demonstrating great courage." Yeah, considering he wouldn't let go of the bottom rope and was helped up by the referee, which surely is illegal unless the fight is stopped.
That's just how it's back then, there were times a fighter would get saved by the bell and get carried back to his corner and get sent out for the next round. they weren't very safety conscious.
What?LOL,that was in the 5th round...NOT the 3rd,its obvious someone didn't watch the fight.And even pacheco(ali's fight doctor)doesn't buy the myth liston tried to blind ali.Liston had a bad cut,that he ended up rubbing this ''hot liquid''on his gloves(which fighters have a habit of doing),THAT'S why it got in ali's eyes!
@TheGatorfan93 Wether Liston got that stuff into Ali's eyes on purpose doesnt really matter does it? The point is Ali kept control even without eyesight, and youre making it sound like Liston had a chance of winning that fight..
"forced ali to hold on for dear life,as liston nailed him with a couple of uppercuts"
Did you watch that fight on mushrooms or something? Ali was sluggish in the 3rd round (probably got the wind knocked out of him) and got caught with a few light jabs, lol.
@seblasian No, you cornered the market on embarrassing oneself.Since when does an uppercut to the head knock the wing out of you moron?Its at the end of the 3rd round,watch again,and put your blind bias view on ali aside.Enjoy
@TheGatorfan93 I watched before even writing that first comment, because I dont like to talk out of my ass like you. Ali was inexplicably tired throughout the 3rd round, wich is why I think Liston probably caught him in the midsection. There's no other explanation.
What happened then is Ali got caught a few times about 2mins into the round, not at the end, and even then you could see he was in control and had little trouble dodging Listons jabs.
@seblasian links broken,anyway,im not arguing ali was tired.However,liston did hit him with 2 uppercuts in the final seconds.There's no other explanation?How can you miss both punches?They were not in the midsection.You can hear the announcer say,''now cassius appears to be a bit hurt''ITS RIGHT THERE!Maybe once you get of ali's nuts you'll notice.
@TheGatorfan93 What amazes me is that you keep arguing and clearly havent made sure to watch it!
The link isnt broken, you just have to paste it after youtube. com/
Youre wrong, watch the fight, thats all there is to it. There are no uppercuts at the end of the 3rd round.
"Cassius is a bit hurt", like I clearly said before, happens roughly 2 mins into the round, he gets caught because he's tired. He's never in real trouble and recovers long before the end of the round.
@seblasian Not to butt into you guy's argument, but the shots that hurt Ali at the end of that 3rd round were indeed uppercuts. In the film you can see Ali's back against the ropes and Liston unleashed a couple uppercutts that appears the penetrate his guard. Ali holds on, but doesn't appear to be in any serious trouble.
@bandit7498 I see what you mean but last time I checked that happened halfway through the round, maybe 2 mins in. And like you said he never really looked hurt, if he was he recovered very quickly.
@bandit7498 I see what you mean but last time I checked that happened halfway through the round, maybe 2 mins in. And like you said he never really looked hurt, if he was he recovered very quickly.
Yeah,holding his own,why don't YOU actually watch the fight.Liston clearly won the the 2nd and 4th round.And in the 3rd,after being hurt,came back and forced ali to hold on for dear life,as liston nailed him with a couple of uppercuts.And of course liston missed alot of punches,he was in his mid 30's,while ali had just turned 22!Some,he missed by a mile,some he just barely missed.Kidding?Ha...yeah
@TheGatorfan93, no, why dont YOU watch the fight, the only reason that ali had to hold on was because sonny cheated and put some hot liquid on his gloves, so when he got close to ali, he rubbed his gloves into alis face, causign his vision to blur
@1899sharkey I'm gonna fuck you in the ass if u ever talk to me like that again, i said he's the best of all the time and it's true look at his record, He had already three belts at 21 years old.
Ali is better but personnaly i prefer Mike Tyson because of his ferocity..
And he is in the top 20 heavyweight division THAT YOU WANT IT OR NOT.
@boss089 cmon man i could name a whole bunch of better boxers that would ko him,not including the ones who actually ko,d him. at least u acknowledge that ali is better ;)
Sharkey,tyson bit holyfield because when he was destroying him in the 3rd,holyfield countered with low blows,and butts.Why would tyson try to get out of the fight,in the round he's dominating?LoL,quit watching espn classic,and the revisionism of bert''another self hating jew''sugar k?
No one knows how good liston could have been,because even when he won the title,he was already in his mid 30's.Tyson and liston are my 2 favorite heavyweights of all time.My top heavyweights would be 1. tyson 1987-88 2.liston 1957-58 3.ali-1964-65 4.holmes 1977-78.I agree liston took a dive in the second ali fight,but in the first he was holding his own until he threw his shoulder out.Just watch the 6th round,he was in pain throwing the jab.A younger liston would have knocked ali out.
@TheGatorfan93 lol,holding his own,you gotta be kidding,please go study that fight,look how many punches liston lands and also how many he fails to land
Liston is highly overrated, Tyson would have destroyed this guy within 2 rounds. Tyson was 5 11 and 215 (about the same as liston) and he'd destroy this guy and liston in the same night.
I use my eyes little stevie wonder,foreman never had a jab,he was a frankenstein monster who lead with his chin.USE your eyes moron.The only liston you saw was a man in 30's,while you saw a guy named jimmy young beat foreman in his 20's.Now compare that shit for brains,with liston in his 30's destroying cleveland williams,who would have crushed young any day till doomsday.(school bell rings)now run along child..run
@TheGatorfan93 listen poor simpleton, when foreman faced jimmy young he was living in a depression, after he lost against ali he was not the same man, anyway styles make fights, jimmy young was 1 great stylist who was stolen against ali, shavers and norton.he outboxed foreman, he ran all fight to win by points,larry holmes avoided jimm y young,you know shit on boxing. liston was destroyed by this 190 pounds bum leotis martin, and liston knew him because he was his former sparring partner
@TheGatorfan93 marthy marshal a 185 pounds bum did beat prime liston once, old foreman fought wars against young guys who were top5 in the rank in his era, holyfield,morrison, foreman knocked moorer out(who did beat holyfield once), the elder foreman was stolen against briggs. foreman took blows from much bigger men and harder punchers than liston as cooney 6´6 231, morison 6´3 227, lyle 6´3 220, moorer 222, briggs 6´4 227, prime holyfield, joe frazier 214 and 224,norton
@jimmynablee Don't talk about people being bums when you articulate yourself like one. You may have book knowledge on boxing but you got a lot to learn about the conduct of a gentleman.
@NLR884evr - Did your boy start eating Holyfield because he was hungry? No. He started eating him because that little bitch wanted out of that ring immediately. The coward couldn't even make it to the bell where he could have quit on his stool. Go play your video games- bitch!
@TheGatorfan93 liston just did beat pure shit, 1 little glass chin 185 pounds patterson, 1 average boxer as williams whO was 215 pounds and he lost against earnie terrel and george chuvalo lol. lisTon wAs "big" and "strong" in his era 6´0 and 210 pounds in his prime lol, liston is not HARRDER PUNCHER THAN FRANK BRUNO OR RUDDOCK.. FOREMAN WOULD KILL LISTON, MAYBE YOU WANT 1 ARTICLE ON LISTON- FOREMAN? ,LOL THE WINNER IS FOREMAN BY KO IN 6.
LOL foreman would have been D E M O L I S H E D by a prime liston.Yes,foreman had amazing power,but liston could actually..ha..you know ''box''.Maybe the best jab ever,while foreman had a pathetic jab,he wasn't very bright,and was so SLOOOOW!Machen ran from liston,fraizer ducked liston.You people know nothing about the sport.Liston,even when he won the title,was on the decline!He was in his mid 30's.I think a prime liston and holmes,are the only guys who matched up well with a prime tyson.
foreman had a pathetic jab? kid how old are you? hahaha you know pure shit on boxing, simply like that. foreman would destroy liston as garbage, foreman was bigger,stronger,heavier, much harder puncher with both hands, he had much better chin, 4x more heart, frazier ducked liston? lol, after he lost ali, liston was a garbage , frazier in the eyars 66-67-68 would rape liston like a bitch, you are just 1 poor and liar clown, really prime frazier would beat any liston. liston was not foreman.
@TheGatorfan93 prime tyson would ko liston and surely prime holmes too.
just george foreman 70-73 , 65-67ali ,and maybe prime holyfield and prime frazier would beat prime tyson. foreman by ko in 3 rounds, ali by ud, frazier could beat him by late tko, and holyfield by ud. all them would beat liston.
george foreman wa smuch stronger,heavier,bigger and harder puncher than liston, foreman faced much better rivals and still his % ko was much better than liston, liston faced guys who were 179,180,192.200.
1 young foreman in his fight number 3 destroyed chuck wepner in 3 rounds, liston won wepner in 10... liston could not ko eddie machen, joe frazier destroyed machen..
liston in the era of foreman,frazier,holmes,tyson,holyfield would be a joke.
A combination of Sonnys age and young Ali's speed and size was a bad mix in '64. It's a helpless feeling to be in with someone you cant hit because of his speed and hit and dont get hit style. Sonny was really slowing down by '64.
@1899sharkey Come on Liston was ALWAYS slow. I mean for a heavyweight his left hook was pretty quick, but that was it. Liston was billed as 29 for his fight in 1964, but was probably closer to 32. Sure thats when you start to peak, but he wasnt shot. If I remember, he had a 14 fight winning streak after his Ali fights.
@POTATER1228 - Liston was billed at 32 for the '64 fight but was thought to be around 35. Check your facts. You are entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.
@born2destroy90 Tyson wouldn't beat the force that was Sonny Liston. Liston was one of the top 5 heavyweights ever, that's not just me saying that but many boxing commentators too, Tyson would be lucky to be top 25.
@awwwboys I agree. What people don't realize though is Sonny had one of the best jabs ever! I was watching some of his old fights, that man's jab was like a telephone pole. Also, people don't realize something else - Sonny was a very, very skilled boxer. HE WAS NOT A BRAWLER. This made his strength and punching power even more impressive. Remember, Yank Durham turned Sonny down 3 times. He would not let Joe Frazier fight Sonny or Floyd Patterson. Would have loved to see those fights.
@bangitslo I completely agree, Sonny had the best jab in all of boxing, Foreman and Louis are up there but they didn't use it with the force Sonny did. To all those people talking about Tyson in the same breath as Liston, they're clueless as to the power Liston had.
@axmedus1000 - twenty-eight officially. Some thought Sonny to be a couple years older than he claimed. I believe he and George foreman were the biggest hitters in heavyweight history.
@axmedus1000 -Tysons not even a top twenty heavy. Do your homework before making stupid comments! Fighters with weak hearts dont beat all-time greats.
@1899sharkey who do u think you are? Even Muhammad Ali(you dont want to tell me that u know more about boxing than him -.-) said that Tyson is a great champion!!
You should make your homework first before u write bullshit here.....
Sonny showed total class after whipping Harris. He went over and patted him on the back and talked to him for a few seconds. No taunting or anything like that. Total class.
@TommyGun7111 the fight etween prime tyson vs prime liston , it would be similiar to the douglas fight except tyson would not of knocke liston down and it would of ended 3 or mayb 4 rounds and he would of stayed on the ground not attemting to get up . Tyson gets hit hes screwed like so many hard jabs to tysons head douglas showed
Liston certainly had much better boxing skills. Tyson was a swarmer. Would be an interesting match. Difference between the 2----Liston reformed himself after gaining notoriety, (although cops harassed him and he was connected to the Mob). Tyson destroyed himself by not staying out of trouble.
yeah i just lean towards liston because #1 he's one of my favorite fighters and #2 he's just an animal you gotta stay away from him in order to have a chance
@capablemachine -Tyson didn't start eating Holyfield because he was hungry, the tin man wanted out of that ring. Quitting on your stool when you are a beaten fighter is a little different than turning cannibal. Tysons very weak heart would have failed him against any of the all time greats. Liston k.o.s the coward in one!!
@TheRichmich There's a lot going on when Tyson bit Holyfield. Tyson out of condition stood up to punishment from Lewis and from Buster Douglas when he wasn't in great shape. Lewis even said he was surprised he was still standing. Liston quit on his stool and threw the second fight. There's no difference except you don't like Tyson.
@capablemachine -theres a lot going on when Tyson bit holyfield? Your boxing knowledge is limited, you have been listening to Max(never been in a ring ) Kellerman. Taking a little punishment from Douglas and Lewis doesn't qualify him as an all time great. Tyson was an over hyped product of jim jacobs who failed miserably when he started facing quality opponents with wills to win.
@TheRichmich That's absolute nonsense. Your boxing knowledge is not limited it's non existant. You've just attacked me and not acknowledged that Liston quit twice yet somehow Tyson who gets pummelled for 8 to 10 rounds by world champions and past his prime has no heart. Get real.
@TheRichmich Tyson has a good chin. Mostly because he had a thick neck, early k.o is something that's just not possible. Tyson had some tough fights but he was well trained but he declined after spliting with Kevin Rooney and going to jail.
@TheRichmich I suppose if Tyson was fighting cruiserweights like Liston I mean when you are 215 and dwarf your comp. Tyson on the other hand was dwarfed by his comp. I wonder if you mean that Liston who quit against Ali he he was a lighter uncommited puncher.
@TheRichmich Tyson always folded when the going got tough? Tyson, didn't fold when he fought Donnovan Ruddock twice. He didn't fold against James bone crusher Smith. Both of those fighters were not scared of Mike and had him rocked on several occasions. And Mike never quit against Douglas and Lewis, he got his ass beat to the ground theres a difference but are right that Mike shouldn't be mentioned with Sonny. Because Sonny was the mafias bitch and Sonny threw fights and was a heroin user
agreed, in his era tyson was king - but had he been in his prime during the 60's and 70's where he'd have come across opponents like ali, foreman, frazier, liston - he would have been destroyed
@TheRichmich Tyson didn't fold when he fought Donovan Rudduck who was one of the hardest punchers ever and tagged Mike several times. Mike didn't fold when he rallied back to ko Francois Botha. You want to talk about folding? Let's talk about Sonny taking a dive on Ali. Let's talk about Sonny being the mafia's bitch and routinely throwing bouts for them. Look, you clearly have no clue what the fuck you're talking about. Now you think about what I told you before you run your mouth.
@1899sharkey And what happened to Sonny in his first fight against Ali in 1964? First Sonny put a foreign substance on his gloves to blind Ali. Which he did and had Ali blind for a round. But after Ali's eyes cleared he beat the shit out of Sonny, and your boyfriend Sonny QUIT on his stool after the sixth round. So please, save the revisionist history for someone who doesn't know better.
@NLR884evr - Answer the question trs(tyson rectum sniffer). Why did the rapist start eating Evander? At least I'm talking about the tin man while he's alive. While your sorry ass can only berate the dead.
@1899sharkey You are not my teacher and I am not your student. And judging by how naive you are as far as understanding well established boxing nomenclature, I'm glad not to be your teacher. You ignorant words are deeply immersed in hyperbole and inflammatory rhetoric. Tyson was a quitter? Maybe. But so was Sonny and to a higher degree. Sonny not only flopped in the ring for the mob, Sonny also took a dive in life; overdosing on heroin. And Tyson never got ko'd in the first round.
@NLR884evr - your lover was the worst kind of coward in the ring. Resorting to eating his opponent to make sure he was d.q.d immediately. What a pussy he couldn't even go the distance with Holyfield while a 42 year old Foreman did.
@1899sharkey Hollyfield was an exceptional fighter as was Mike Tyson and Sonny Liston. But as the bible say's: All men are guilty and all far short of the glory of God. Did you know that Hollyfield, like James Toney and Roy Jones jr. had used anabolic steroids? All fighters have dirt, even Ray Robinson who notoriously ducked Charlie Burley. By interjecting a holier-than-thou attitude about Sonny Liston while simultaneously throwing Tyson under the bus only besmirches your own character.
@1899sharkey You're 52 years old and still using profane language and juvenile insults to try and make a point !?! You're a disgrace, a boxing dilettante and rabble-rouser who's totally divorced from reality and posses not even a shred of civility.
@NLR884evr- I usually dont reply to idiots like you but after reading your arrogant replys " now you think about what i said before you run your mouth" i felt the need to tell you how fucked up an individual you are. SIGNING OFF HAVE A PLEASENT EVENING.
@NLR884evr - Yeah Sonny worked for the mob and your boy Tyson knocked old ladies down and stole their purses. Which one took more balls to do? Tyson was a coward and his rectum sniffing fanboys aresimply in love with him. Sonny would have the bitch in trouble in the first and k.o. the coward in the second.
@1899sharkey You don't think Sonny robbed old folks? You're naive. And for the record I don't think either had much intestinal fortitude. Both robbed people and both used drugs. As far as your comment about Mike being a "bitch" you wouldn't say that to his face so that makes you the bitch.
Liston is BUILT. Just his presence is intimidating... he's like a bigger Tyson! (the young Tyson not the brash, headhunting Tyson) Now that's a really scary thought...
I am a Liston fan. Sonny was the Mike Tyson of his day, a lethal puncher who knocked out most of his opponents in the first round. I still think the two losses to Ali were fishy. Even after losing those two fights, Liston went on to win 14 fight in a row before dying in 1970.
I'd say Frazier was more like Tyson, powerful little brawler. Liston...well there's not many people we can compare him to, just a pure power puncher who'd smash ur face into a pulp. Maybe Valuev, but not really.
@Richdanahuff Tyson kept his hands much lower than boxers Sonny faced. Sonny's main weapon was a left jab that broke through even the strongest of defences. Tyson, tough though he was, would not be able to withstand the punishment Liston's jab doled out. Look what Lennox Lewis' jab did to Tyson and that jab isn't anywhere near what Sonny's was.
@awwwboys What Tyson kept his hands high. here is a spin if Liston couldn't take Alis shots and yes there was alot of damage on Sonny after the 7 rds what makes you think he could handle Tysons power. I don't understand Liston power was displayed against small underpowered fighters however you rate the stength of the last 25 yrs of fighters even though they were fighting real heavies. How can they be compared?????
@Richdanahuff It wasn't Ali's power that beat Sonny, Ali had very little power! Sonny lost the fight to Ali long before he ever went into the ring. Liston destroyed many fighters that weren't "underpowered"-Ingemar Johansson, Willi Besmanoff to name but two. The minute Tyson came up against someone with a jab even half comparable with Sonny's jab he was destroyed. Tyson often kept his hands low, especially as rounds wore on.
@awwwboys Liston never fought Johanson the most powerful guy he ever fought was probably Williams and he stopped him early but then again Ali did also. I am not a Tyson fan per-sey but I do know how special he was as a fighter as long as he was managed just like anyone else. Sonny only KO'd 39 out of 50 wearing horse hair 6oz sol levinson gloves that had less protection than todays MMA glovves on the nuckles...how do you suppose those 11 undersized fighters got past his jab
@Richdanahuff So hold on, you're talking about Tyson who was trained by Cus D'Amato, one of the greatest ever, Tyson who was given every chance under the sun to prove himself,that "managed" comment is complete bs.you keep coming back to this thing of "undersized" but those 11 "got past him" because of superior speed and agility,they were still caught eventually.Tyson, unlike Liston, would go down like a bitch with a broken jaw too
@awwwboys Relax the scouting report on Liston was always the same he was slow. "Managed being BS" fighters with head problems have to be taken care while they make money the image the opponents the marketing is all deliberate even in Listons day. Yes 11 fighters went the distance some as small as 179lbs beat him and broke his jaw. Hell Leotis Martin was a soft 199 when he KO'd Sonny. And Tyson stood no chance LOLOL????
@Richdanahuff You really underestimate him by saying "he was slow",he was often deceptively quick.You're forgetting something really important about the Leotis Martin fight,it was in 1969!So Liston was in the 38-41 age bracket depending on which date you take as his birth.What was Tyson doing at that age?Losing to Kevin McCloud and generally being beat up on. Yes, Tyson would stand no chance
@awwwboys Hold on you compare a soft 199 lb Leotis Martin to a 6'6" 270 McBride neither one was that great but one was a helluva lot bigger and stronger than anything Sonny every fought. I don't underestimate Sonnys speed for a guy his size he could be average and overpower the cruiser heavies of his time. I never said he was a bad fighter or wasn't great for that matter. But IMO Tyson was an evolution in Heavyweights that noone before had ever seen.
@Richdanahuff Leotis Martin wasn't soft,Sonny could only fight what was around at the time but the fighters he faced were on average better than what Tyson faced. Just as you say Tyson was an evolution in Heavyweights, Sonny was a huge evolution 30 years earlier. IMO Sonny would still destroy him.
@awwwboys The evolutions in Heavies went Jack Johnson, Jack Dempsey, Joe Louis, Sonny Liston, Ali, and Tyson, Lewis. Foreman was a much bigger stronger Liston. Sonny was not fighting huge evolutionary heavies he was fighting the small fighters of the 50-60's. Martin was soft sort of a smaller Marvis Frazier and he KO'd Liston who was trying to fight for the title. Tyson was in it for the money and could care less about being champ again by the 90's.
@Richdanahuff I agree with the evolutions, at least we agree about something eh?haha! Altho Foreman was bigger and stronger, Sonny's jab and hooks were still comparable if not more effective. Liston may have been figting for the title but in his head he knew that after the phantom punch he had been blacklisted by the boxing authorities and had no chance of getting a title tilt.
@awwwboys Well noone can ever accuse prime Foreman of being technical he was actually kinda wild. Sonny was much more fundementally sound and controlled.
I really don't think Liston thought that deep about his situation after the phantom punch I am sure he thought he was through but several fighters tried to fight him that could have put him into contention I believe the Martin fight was going to put him in contention
@Richdanahuff I think most of Sonny's fights after the phantom punch were for what he called "eating money" nothing more. I think Sonny knew that after Frazier won the title in New York, a tilt would have been near on impossible. The Martin fight would have put him in contention but I don't know if Sonny ever thought that after such a long American hiatus and the controversy that still surrounded him
@awwwboys One of Listons real problems as well was he was very good, powerful and destructive but his personality was colorless. He did not fit into the time he was better suited for the modern thug idol era where being a thug is cool. Sonny could beat a lot of fighter but he was bad business for any promoter the time wanted a anti like Ali who was loud colorful and stood for something. Like Hulk Hogan Ali knew how to work the crowd Sonny didn't.
@Richdanahuff Yeah I agree Sonny was never given the press benefit because of his timing in entering the boxing world, the whole "meanest man on the planet" didn't suit Liston and wasn't really used until later on, especially for Tyson
@Richdanahuff: You overrate Tyson. He was no "evolution" or anything of the sort, IMO. He was a slow-footed, quick-handed power puncher who used upper body movement to slip punches. Big deal. Liston, a far more sophisticated offensive & defensive fighter, would've handed Tyson a sound drubbing. That power jab would've kept Tyson off-balance and the power shots to follow would've put Mike on the deck.
@Kedbuka You must reaqlly dislike Tyson of you can't see how quick he feet were. Oh he would have destroyed 220 lb Tyson when little old Marty Marshall at 180 was breaking his jaw or the 11 other cruiser were going the distance with him.
Styles make fights. Liston was made to order for Ali, being slow, gutless, and having poor stamina. But, Liston would have had a much easier time with guys like Norton, where Ali's lousy left hook, inability to move forward effectively, and poor punching power made for very competitive fights.
Virtually all fighters have styles they don't like. Clay/Ali had a style Liston couldn't handle, and his weak willpower made him quit twice.
TA152H01 2 weeks ago
Getting in the ring with Liston in those days was beyond bravado,
LimitedNewsCorp 1 month ago
I'm Friends with roy's granddaughter!
hoam26973 1 month ago
Holy shit, just take a look at Sonny here. He is a wall of thick muscle. Props to Roy Harris for taking this fight.
MrRoyalFatness 2 months ago
Seriously, keep you Ali-fanboyism to the Ali vids. Sonny deserves better than to be mocked by brainwashed keyboard warriors.
MrRoyalFatness 2 months ago
A prime Sonny moved and boxed well, this guy had a lot more than just power going for him. That telephone pole jab of his was incredible with the way he twisted it.
1899sharkey 2 months ago
Would you fight with torn bicep muscle in his arm that he jabbed with . 7 FBI doctors examined him. He tried to have the bout postponed, however, wonderful Chris Dundee, talk about mobbed up people, had influence with the Miami boxing commission, These are facts. Period Verified by hank Kaplan the foremost boxing historian
danadana77 5 months ago
The comments here by the clueless members of the Religion of Ali are par for the course.
marcxopoco 7 months ago 3
Harris had a hell of a lot of guts to even get into the ring with Liston at this time in Sonny's career. No one wanted to fight Sonny then. No one.
zenmachinefilms 8 months ago
@zenmachinefilms yes i agree. Liston was a scary guy. I'd rather fight Tyson than Liston any day of the week.
jimmyg141 2 months ago
There's many parrellels between Liston and Tyson life. It wouldnt surprise me if he died at a young age like Sonny.
genericgeorge 8 months ago
This is prime Liston. Truly the greatest of all time. NO ONE BEATS HIM IN THIS TIME PERIOD. MICHAEL ARES
danadana77 8 months ago
@danadana77 shut up joe louis ,marciano ,walcott,alot more oh yea ali kicked his ass, they said sonny was gonna destroy ali ,alis not got a chance.the greatest of all time my ass u idiot
chrismck100 7 months ago
@danadana77 Liston's three best wins other than Patterson were this one and fights against Cleveland Williams and Zora Folley. Liston was great in his prime, but no one can really say how great. When your best wins were mostly against fringe contenders, I have a hard time calling you GOAT. He seems as formidable on paper as anyone ever, with his superhuman wingspan and viscious power, but I don't think he has the resume to back up any claims like that. Quitting on the stool, like he did
johnwtanneriv 6 months ago
@johnwtanneriv If it's about a resume the Joe Louis is the GOAT in the heavyweight division. Ali got the push in his bout with Doug Jones and a few others. Sonny Liston was controlled by Blinky Palermo and Frankie Carbo so I think both those fights are suspect. Then you have the Frazier trilogy where Frazier takes the first and the other two were were given to Ali because you can't have Ali lose twice.
QRF11B 6 months ago
@QRF11B I scored the Jones bout 7-3 Ali. Frazier's corner threw in the towel after the 14th round of the 3rd fight, hardly a fight "given" to Ali. These are typical anti-Ali arguments. People who don't like him, or maybe just don't like his style of fighting claim every sort of close decision should have been a loss, but the fact is they were wins. Resume is about W's and L's, not could haves and should haves. Whether you win by 1 or 100, so to speak, doesn't factor in much to me.
johnwtanneriv 6 months ago
@johnwtanneriv 1) No one gives a shit how you scored a fight. 2) Eddie Futch stopped the fight and Frazier didn't want it. 3) Ali is quoted as saying: "that was the closest to dying that I've ever been." 3) "Resume is about W's and L's" Absurd. When and how those W's and L's occurred must be factored in when analyzing a fighter.
4) You're an Ali fanboy who is incapable of clear perception.
QRF11B 6 months ago
@johnwtanneriv would u eat ali s poop??
smokinlefthook 4 months ago
@danadana77 against Ali, granted he was a bit past his peak, isn't something I would ever think of for the GOAT. Even if he was a couple years removed from his peak, quitting on a fight and possibly throwing another one knocks him out of the discussion of greatest for me.
johnwtanneriv 6 months ago
great fight
aqaaba 8 months ago
What year was this fight in?
DuykRuyk 9 months ago
he was great at wailing away to the body and head when ppl tied up one arm
Felces 9 months ago
Liston had an underrated jab in my opinion. The man had pretty nuts reach (84' .... I think) and had some power behind them. They didn't have the snap of a quicker fighter, like Ali, Liston's jabs thudded into you.
cet0708 9 months ago
Liston didn't have the fighting heart that many others had... but he sure had the skills.
fistofate 9 months ago
Liston was a great fighter. You can see that he had pretty good hand and foot speed and movement, good head movement, he'd avoid punches by ducking right OR left and the same with his foot movement. Not many fighters... even heavyweight champs have had the skills he had. Yeah... I think he took a dive in the second Ali fight, but he tried his best in the first one and there was no way he was going to win. I think the knockdown in the Ali fight was legitimate, but he didn't feel like getting up.
fistofate 9 months ago
Sonny Liston was one tough fighter but he lost to Ali and the fights never lived up to their billing. Ali was the greatest but the way that Liston fought him was very suspicious to me.
tacikcim 10 months ago
RESPECT......from ALGERIA
ultramine75 11 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
the ali-liston fight was FIXED if you dont believe me look it up
illmatic826 11 months ago
What a tremendous show of power! That Sonny Liston was a beast! And what muscles..he was HUGE!
SUZI1990ful 11 months ago
@SUZI1990ful actually liston was only 6´0 and he weighed 208-212 pounds in his prime. but yes, he was very big boned.
combatesdeboxeo 10 months ago
You say there are no uppercuts landed at the end of round 3,THEN IN THE SAME POST,you admit he gets caught LOL!But now you use the excuse..''he gets caught because he's tired'' LMAO!
''What amazes me is that you keep arguing and clearly haven't made sure to watch it!''
.......The irony of this statement is hilarious
TheGatorfan93 1 year ago
Gerry Cooney was way bigger than Micheal Spinks
gameday26 1 year ago
liston was called a quitter against clay. no one ever mentions the fact that Cus D'amado wouldn't let Patterson near him in the late 50s. I wonder why i never hear Johanson, and Liston in the same sentence either? Johanson wanted no part of liston. I never hear Patterson-Cleveland Williams in the same sentence. how about Johanson- Williams? i just wonder why not. Liston waited for years for a title shot
gameday26 1 year ago
those men were warriors..lol.. Now we have to deal with these chumps who wont take blood tests, money bs , heaight bs , etc. etc. that was when the science was alive and raw , i wonder how many of our fighters today would be able to go the distance like 15 rds. Liston was a beast.
foofoomai 1 year ago
"Harris is up again at the count of nine, demonstrating great courage." Yeah, considering he wouldn't let go of the bottom rope and was helped up by the referee, which surely is illegal unless the fight is stopped.
madmax8903 1 year ago
@madmax8903
That's just how it's back then, there were times a fighter would get saved by the bell and get carried back to his corner and get sent out for the next round. they weren't very safety conscious.
tdk813 1 year ago
What?LOL,that was in the 5th round...NOT the 3rd,its obvious someone didn't watch the fight.And even pacheco(ali's fight doctor)doesn't buy the myth liston tried to blind ali.Liston had a bad cut,that he ended up rubbing this ''hot liquid''on his gloves(which fighters have a habit of doing),THAT'S why it got in ali's eyes!
TheGatorfan93 1 year ago
@TheGatorfan93 Wether Liston got that stuff into Ali's eyes on purpose doesnt really matter does it? The point is Ali kept control even without eyesight, and youre making it sound like Liston had a chance of winning that fight..
"forced ali to hold on for dear life,as liston nailed him with a couple of uppercuts"
Did you watch that fight on mushrooms or something? Ali was sluggish in the 3rd round (probably got the wind knocked out of him) and got caught with a few light jabs, lol.
seblasian 1 year ago
@seblasian (''probably got the wind knocked out of him'')
...hilarious,its obvious YOU didn't watch the fight,try again kid
TheGatorfan93 1 year ago
@TheGatorfan93 Just watch the fight and stop embarassing yourself.
seblasian 1 year ago
@seblasian No, you cornered the market on embarrassing oneself.Since when does an uppercut to the head knock the wing out of you moron?Its at the end of the 3rd round,watch again,and put your blind bias view on ali aside.Enjoy
TheGatorfan93 1 year ago
@TheGatorfan93 I watched before even writing that first comment, because I dont like to talk out of my ass like you. Ali was inexplicably tired throughout the 3rd round, wich is why I think Liston probably caught him in the midsection. There's no other explanation.
What happened then is Ali got caught a few times about 2mins into the round, not at the end, and even then you could see he was in control and had little trouble dodging Listons jabs.
seblasian 1 year ago
@TheGatorfan93 Here's the link:
watch?v=lp0RdiW8-bQ&feature=related
feel free to tell at what point exactly you think Ali was 'holding on for dear life', lol.
seblasian 1 year ago
@seblasian links broken,anyway,im not arguing ali was tired.However,liston did hit him with 2 uppercuts in the final seconds.There's no other explanation?How can you miss both punches?They were not in the midsection.You can hear the announcer say,''now cassius appears to be a bit hurt''ITS RIGHT THERE!Maybe once you get of ali's nuts you'll notice.
TheGatorfan93 1 year ago
@TheGatorfan93 What amazes me is that you keep arguing and clearly havent made sure to watch it!
The link isnt broken, you just have to paste it after youtube. com/
Youre wrong, watch the fight, thats all there is to it. There are no uppercuts at the end of the 3rd round.
"Cassius is a bit hurt", like I clearly said before, happens roughly 2 mins into the round, he gets caught because he's tired. He's never in real trouble and recovers long before the end of the round.
seblasian 1 year ago
@seblasian Not to butt into you guy's argument, but the shots that hurt Ali at the end of that 3rd round were indeed uppercuts. In the film you can see Ali's back against the ropes and Liston unleashed a couple uppercutts that appears the penetrate his guard. Ali holds on, but doesn't appear to be in any serious trouble.
bandit7498 10 months ago
@bandit7498 I see what you mean but last time I checked that happened halfway through the round, maybe 2 mins in. And like you said he never really looked hurt, if he was he recovered very quickly.
seblasian 10 months ago
@bandit7498 I see what you mean but last time I checked that happened halfway through the round, maybe 2 mins in. And like you said he never really looked hurt, if he was he recovered very quickly.
seblasian 10 months ago
Yeah,holding his own,why don't YOU actually watch the fight.Liston clearly won the the 2nd and 4th round.And in the 3rd,after being hurt,came back and forced ali to hold on for dear life,as liston nailed him with a couple of uppercuts.And of course liston missed alot of punches,he was in his mid 30's,while ali had just turned 22!Some,he missed by a mile,some he just barely missed.Kidding?Ha...yeah
TheGatorfan93 1 year ago
@TheGatorfan93, no, why dont YOU watch the fight, the only reason that ali had to hold on was because sonny cheated and put some hot liquid on his gloves, so when he got close to ali, he rubbed his gloves into alis face, causign his vision to blur
kingdarius1991 1 year ago
liston. top 5 heavyweights of all time. without doubt. he would destroy anybody these days
ichristian7575 1 year ago
@ichristian7575 without a dout
lee1990lee 11 months ago
interesting how roy able to push liston into ropes a few times huh?rocky wudda done the same,ko this musclebound nothing
finetubs 1 year ago
Damn the ref help this guy get up on the second knock down.
globalsbc 1 year ago
Roy Harris was afraid. Plain and simple. Look at his eyes and his body english. Doesn't lie. He was terrified.
lwm762 1 year ago
Why is there a Tyson debate for every fucking heavyweight fight on youtube?
Maryjaneslave 1 year ago
@Maryjaneslave Because he was the best of all the time
boss089 1 year ago
Comment removed
1899sharkey 1 year ago
@1899sharkey I'm gonna fuck you in the ass if u ever talk to me like that again, i said he's the best of all the time and it's true look at his record, He had already three belts at 21 years old.
Ali is better but personnaly i prefer Mike Tyson because of his ferocity..
And he is in the top 20 heavyweight division THAT YOU WANT IT OR NOT.
boss089 1 year ago
Comment removed
1899sharkey 1 year ago
@1899sharkey My comment is real, and you are just a hater and you're pathetic for insulting people behind your screen..
"Mike Tyson is a coward" .. I would LOVE to see you saying that right in his face..
End of story.
boss089 1 year ago
@boss089 cmon man i could name a whole bunch of better boxers that would ko him,not including the ones who actually ko,d him. at least u acknowledge that ali is better ;)
ichristian7575 1 year ago
Liston could hit.
PUGCAT 1 year ago
@PUGCAT so cud butterbean,yer pt is??
finetubs 1 year ago
Sharkey,tyson bit holyfield because when he was destroying him in the 3rd,holyfield countered with low blows,and butts.Why would tyson try to get out of the fight,in the round he's dominating?LoL,quit watching espn classic,and the revisionism of bert''another self hating jew''sugar k?
TheGatorfan93 1 year ago
No one knows how good liston could have been,because even when he won the title,he was already in his mid 30's.Tyson and liston are my 2 favorite heavyweights of all time.My top heavyweights would be 1. tyson 1987-88 2.liston 1957-58 3.ali-1964-65 4.holmes 1977-78.I agree liston took a dive in the second ali fight,but in the first he was holding his own until he threw his shoulder out.Just watch the 6th round,he was in pain throwing the jab.A younger liston would have knocked ali out.
TheGatorfan93 1 year ago
@TheGatorfan93 lol,holding his own,you gotta be kidding,please go study that fight,look how many punches liston lands and also how many he fails to land
ichristian7575 1 year ago
Liston too strong and technically superior to Harris. One sided match.
mitochondria26 1 year ago
Liston is highly overrated, Tyson would have destroyed this guy within 2 rounds. Tyson was 5 11 and 215 (about the same as liston) and he'd destroy this guy and liston in the same night.
thecaliforniaknight 1 year ago
sonny was a tough but emotionally mixed up guy i guess.
dempsey981 1 year ago
its nice to see the good sportsmanship at the end. its rare, imo, in modern pro sports.
nepalnt21 1 year ago
comon liston was a mob fave for takin dives
tellthetruthg 1 year ago
I use my eyes little stevie wonder,foreman never had a jab,he was a frankenstein monster who lead with his chin.USE your eyes moron.The only liston you saw was a man in 30's,while you saw a guy named jimmy young beat foreman in his 20's.Now compare that shit for brains,with liston in his 30's destroying cleveland williams,who would have crushed young any day till doomsday.(school bell rings)now run along child..run
TheGatorfan93 1 year ago
@TheGatorfan93 listen poor simpleton, when foreman faced jimmy young he was living in a depression, after he lost against ali he was not the same man, anyway styles make fights, jimmy young was 1 great stylist who was stolen against ali, shavers and norton.he outboxed foreman, he ran all fight to win by points,larry holmes avoided jimm y young,you know shit on boxing. liston was destroyed by this 190 pounds bum leotis martin, and liston knew him because he was his former sparring partner
jimmynablee 1 year ago
@TheGatorfan93 marthy marshal a 185 pounds bum did beat prime liston once, old foreman fought wars against young guys who were top5 in the rank in his era, holyfield,morrison, foreman knocked moorer out(who did beat holyfield once), the elder foreman was stolen against briggs. foreman took blows from much bigger men and harder punchers than liston as cooney 6´6 231, morison 6´3 227, lyle 6´3 220, moorer 222, briggs 6´4 227, prime holyfield, joe frazier 214 and 224,norton
jimmynablee 1 year ago
@jimmynablee Don't talk about people being bums when you articulate yourself like one. You may have book knowledge on boxing but you got a lot to learn about the conduct of a gentleman.
NLR884evr 1 year ago
@NLR884evr - Did your boy start eating Holyfield because he was hungry? No. He started eating him because that little bitch wanted out of that ring immediately. The coward couldn't even make it to the bell where he could have quit on his stool. Go play your video games- bitch!
1899sharkey 1 year ago
@TheGatorfan93 liston just did beat pure shit, 1 little glass chin 185 pounds patterson, 1 average boxer as williams whO was 215 pounds and he lost against earnie terrel and george chuvalo lol. lisTon wAs "big" and "strong" in his era 6´0 and 210 pounds in his prime lol, liston is not HARRDER PUNCHER THAN FRANK BRUNO OR RUDDOCK.. FOREMAN WOULD KILL LISTON, MAYBE YOU WANT 1 ARTICLE ON LISTON- FOREMAN? ,LOL THE WINNER IS FOREMAN BY KO IN 6.
(I SAY IN 3 )
jimmynablee 1 year ago
LOL foreman would have been D E M O L I S H E D by a prime liston.Yes,foreman had amazing power,but liston could actually..ha..you know ''box''.Maybe the best jab ever,while foreman had a pathetic jab,he wasn't very bright,and was so SLOOOOW!Machen ran from liston,fraizer ducked liston.You people know nothing about the sport.Liston,even when he won the title,was on the decline!He was in his mid 30's.I think a prime liston and holmes,are the only guys who matched up well with a prime tyson.
TheGatorfan93 1 year ago
foreman had a pathetic jab? kid how old are you? hahaha you know pure shit on boxing, simply like that. foreman would destroy liston as garbage, foreman was bigger,stronger,heavier, much harder puncher with both hands, he had much better chin, 4x more heart, frazier ducked liston? lol, after he lost ali, liston was a garbage , frazier in the eyars 66-67-68 would rape liston like a bitch, you are just 1 poor and liar clown, really prime frazier would beat any liston. liston was not foreman.
jimmynablee 1 year ago
@TheGatorfan93 prime tyson would ko liston and surely prime holmes too.
just george foreman 70-73 , 65-67ali ,and maybe prime holyfield and prime frazier would beat prime tyson. foreman by ko in 3 rounds, ali by ud, frazier could beat him by late tko, and holyfield by ud. all them would beat liston.
jimmynablee 1 year ago
@TheGatorfan93 the % ko of liston was pure shit and his rivals were pure shit too.
prime liston was 6,0 and 210 pounds lol, 27 years old foreman was 6´3 1/2 and 2311/2 pounds
jimmynablee 1 year ago
@TheGatorfan93 and liston was a fucking slow, no way liston was faster than 70-73 george foreman
jimmynablee 1 year ago
george foreman wa smuch stronger,heavier,bigger and harder puncher than liston, foreman faced much better rivals and still his % ko was much better than liston, liston faced guys who were 179,180,192.200.
1 young foreman in his fight number 3 destroyed chuck wepner in 3 rounds, liston won wepner in 10... liston could not ko eddie machen, joe frazier destroyed machen..
liston in the era of foreman,frazier,holmes,tyson,holyfield would be a joke.
jimmynablee 1 year ago
i cant believe the ref doesn't call the rabbit punching done by Liston here
texanwithawill 1 year ago
Wow good sportsmanship. What happened to that now a days?
youlosez 1 year ago
A combination of Sonnys age and young Ali's speed and size was a bad mix in '64. It's a helpless feeling to be in with someone you cant hit because of his speed and hit and dont get hit style. Sonny was really slowing down by '64.
1899sharkey 1 year ago
@1899sharkey Come on Liston was ALWAYS slow. I mean for a heavyweight his left hook was pretty quick, but that was it. Liston was billed as 29 for his fight in 1964, but was probably closer to 32. Sure thats when you start to peak, but he wasnt shot. If I remember, he had a 14 fight winning streak after his Ali fights.
POTATER1228 1 year ago
@POTATER1228 - Liston was billed at 32 for the '64 fight but was thought to be around 35. Check your facts. You are entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.
1899sharkey 1 year ago
Sonny liston also boxed as charles sailor liston and elmer kid violent ray
nickic272 1 year ago
@nickic272 Liston could never have stood with the fighters Tyson was beating they were legit huge heavies while Liston beat up cruisers.
Richdanahuff 1 year ago
Henry cooper would have beat liston
nickic272 1 year ago
@nickic272 Henry Cooper could honestly never have beaten Sonny Liston, don't be silly
awwwboys 1 year ago
Those are the loosest ropes Ive ever seen, They make the ropes from Ali Foreman look like piano wires!!!
kevindlinc 1 year ago
Sonny get smashed by Tyson? Hilarious
1899sharkey 1 year ago
tyson is 1 of the greats give him his respect. liston would get smashed by tyson.
born2destroy90 1 year ago
@born2destroy90 Tyson wouldn't beat the force that was Sonny Liston. Liston was one of the top 5 heavyweights ever, that's not just me saying that but many boxing commentators too, Tyson would be lucky to be top 25.
awwwboys 1 year ago
@awwwboys -Agreed one- hundred percent! Tyson would have resembled a yo-yo in a fight with Sonny. Sonny was a man, Tyson a punk!
1899sharkey 1 year ago
@awwwboys I agree. What people don't realize though is Sonny had one of the best jabs ever! I was watching some of his old fights, that man's jab was like a telephone pole. Also, people don't realize something else - Sonny was a very, very skilled boxer. HE WAS NOT A BRAWLER. This made his strength and punching power even more impressive. Remember, Yank Durham turned Sonny down 3 times. He would not let Joe Frazier fight Sonny or Floyd Patterson. Would have loved to see those fights.
bangitslo 1 year ago
@bangitslo I completely agree, Sonny had the best jab in all of boxing, Foreman and Louis are up there but they didn't use it with the force Sonny did. To all those people talking about Tyson in the same breath as Liston, they're clueless as to the power Liston had.
awwwboys 1 year ago
does anyone know how old liston was at this time? he looks so strong
axmedus1000 1 year ago
@axmedus1000 - twenty-eight officially. Some thought Sonny to be a couple years older than he claimed. I believe he and George foreman were the biggest hitters in heavyweight history.
1899sharkey 1 year ago
@1899sharkey they both were two of the biggest hitters sure.
But Mike Tyson hit even harder than them! And he was very fast!
I think Mike Tyson and Muhammad Ali were the greatest boxers of all time
axmedus1000 1 year ago
@axmedus1000 -Tysons not even a top twenty heavy. Do your homework before making stupid comments! Fighters with weak hearts dont beat all-time greats.
1899sharkey 1 year ago
@1899sharkey who do u think you are? Even Muhammad Ali(you dont want to tell me that u know more about boxing than him -.-) said that Tyson is a great champion!!
You should make your homework first before u write bullshit here.....
axmedus1000 1 year ago
@axmedus1000 - Go play your video game.
1899sharkey 1 year ago
@1899sharkey Go play with your "barbie" XD
axmedus1000 1 year ago
He demonstarted courage alright(Harris) Getting into the ring took guts!!
Nickcat5 1 year ago
Both Liston-Ali fakes were fakes.
Ali "won" his title in obvious fakes.
marcxopoco 1 year ago
@marcxopoco # 1 was legit, #2,I'm not sure
Nickcat5 1 year ago
Geez did anyone felt like they got hit every time Liston landed a punch? lOL
Aonghus117 1 year ago
1:52, bitch aint got no chin lol
IkaikaLocS 1 year ago
Sonny showed total class after whipping Harris. He went over and patted him on the back and talked to him for a few seconds. No taunting or anything like that. Total class.
raiders1967 1 year ago 2
umm I don't know why people compare Liston to Tyson
they have different styles, plus the power of Liston is far superior to Tyson. Liston more or less started the intimidation thing.
I think Liston would beat Tyson.
TommyGun7111 1 year ago
@TommyGun7111 the fight etween prime tyson vs prime liston , it would be similiar to the douglas fight except tyson would not of knocke liston down and it would of ended 3 or mayb 4 rounds and he would of stayed on the ground not attemting to get up . Tyson gets hit hes screwed like so many hard jabs to tysons head douglas showed
mrstressed79 1 year ago
I agree with that. I mean come on Douglas is no Liston Douglas should not have beaten a TWENTY THREE year old Tyson. there's no exscuse for that!
Liston would kill him!
TommyGun7111 1 year ago
Liston certainly had much better boxing skills. Tyson was a swarmer. Would be an interesting match. Difference between the 2----Liston reformed himself after gaining notoriety, (although cops harassed him and he was connected to the Mob). Tyson destroyed himself by not staying out of trouble.
loyaldude10 1 year ago
yeah i just lean towards liston because #1 he's one of my favorite fighters and #2 he's just an animal you gotta stay away from him in order to have a chance
if you stand toe to toe, you are insane.
TommyGun7111 1 year ago
the both lack heart
Boxing426Fan 1 year ago
@TommyGun7111 they're compared as both had power, intimidation, and an aura of invincibility, during their best years
POTATER1228 1 year ago
Tyson always folded when the going got tough. He should not be mentioned in the same breath as Liston or Foreman
TheRichmich 1 year ago 8
@TheRichmich Bullshit.
capablemachine 1 year ago
@capablemachine - If the tin man ever looked across the ring and saw Liston with that hooded robe on he'd shit his pants.
TheRichmich 1 year ago
@TheRichmich Liston quit twice. Tyson just got beaten.
capablemachine 1 year ago
@capablemachine -Tyson didn't start eating Holyfield because he was hungry, the tin man wanted out of that ring. Quitting on your stool when you are a beaten fighter is a little different than turning cannibal. Tysons very weak heart would have failed him against any of the all time greats. Liston k.o.s the coward in one!!
TheRichmich 1 year ago
@TheRichmich There's a lot going on when Tyson bit Holyfield. Tyson out of condition stood up to punishment from Lewis and from Buster Douglas when he wasn't in great shape. Lewis even said he was surprised he was still standing. Liston quit on his stool and threw the second fight. There's no difference except you don't like Tyson.
capablemachine 1 year ago
@capablemachine -theres a lot going on when Tyson bit holyfield? Your boxing knowledge is limited, you have been listening to Max(never been in a ring ) Kellerman. Taking a little punishment from Douglas and Lewis doesn't qualify him as an all time great. Tyson was an over hyped product of jim jacobs who failed miserably when he started facing quality opponents with wills to win.
TheRichmich 1 year ago
@TheRichmich That's absolute nonsense. Your boxing knowledge is not limited it's non existant. You've just attacked me and not acknowledged that Liston quit twice yet somehow Tyson who gets pummelled for 8 to 10 rounds by world champions and past his prime has no heart. Get real.
capablemachine 1 year ago
@capablemachine - Niether fighter had indomitable wills. I'll take a1960 Liston over a prime Tyson by early round k.o.
TheRichmich 1 year ago
@TheRichmich Tyson has a good chin. Mostly because he had a thick neck, early k.o is something that's just not possible. Tyson had some tough fights but he was well trained but he declined after spliting with Kevin Rooney and going to jail.
capablemachine 1 year ago
Liston was ordered to lose by the mob.
Clay's "winning" of the title was on a fake.
marcxopoco 1 year ago
@marcxopoco Only the second time, the first time he just got beat. I didn't see Liston touch Clay the first fight and just get badly pummelled.
capablemachine 1 year ago
@TheRichmich Liston also folded against Ali. Foreman was much tougher, i believe.
bcibibcibcpCB 1 year ago
@TheRichmich I suppose if Tyson was fighting cruiserweights like Liston I mean when you are 215 and dwarf your comp. Tyson on the other hand was dwarfed by his comp. I wonder if you mean that Liston who quit against Ali he he was a lighter uncommited puncher.
Richdanahuff 1 year ago
@TheRichmich Tyson always folded when the going got tough? Tyson, didn't fold when he fought Donnovan Ruddock twice. He didn't fold against James bone crusher Smith. Both of those fighters were not scared of Mike and had him rocked on several occasions. And Mike never quit against Douglas and Lewis, he got his ass beat to the ground theres a difference but are right that Mike shouldn't be mentioned with Sonny. Because Sonny was the mafias bitch and Sonny threw fights and was a heroin user
NLR884evr 1 year ago
@TheRichmich
agreed, in his era tyson was king - but had he been in his prime during the 60's and 70's where he'd have come across opponents like ali, foreman, frazier, liston - he would have been destroyed
999TheGreatest 1 year ago
@TheRichmich fuck u bitch u fuckin lil skunk
77pal77 1 year ago
@TheRichmich Tyson didn't fold when he fought Donovan Rudduck who was one of the hardest punchers ever and tagged Mike several times. Mike didn't fold when he rallied back to ko Francois Botha. You want to talk about folding? Let's talk about Sonny taking a dive on Ali. Let's talk about Sonny being the mafia's bitch and routinely throwing bouts for them. Look, you clearly have no clue what the fuck you're talking about. Now you think about what I told you before you run your mouth.
NLR884evr 1 year ago
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1899sharkey 1 year ago
@1899sharkey And what happened to Sonny in his first fight against Ali in 1964? First Sonny put a foreign substance on his gloves to blind Ali. Which he did and had Ali blind for a round. But after Ali's eyes cleared he beat the shit out of Sonny, and your boyfriend Sonny QUIT on his stool after the sixth round. So please, save the revisionist history for someone who doesn't know better.
NLR884evr 1 year ago
@NLR884evr - Answer the question trs(tyson rectum sniffer). Why did the rapist start eating Evander? At least I'm talking about the tin man while he's alive. While your sorry ass can only berate the dead.
1899sharkey 1 year ago
@1899sharkey You are not my teacher and I am not your student. And judging by how naive you are as far as understanding well established boxing nomenclature, I'm glad not to be your teacher. You ignorant words are deeply immersed in hyperbole and inflammatory rhetoric. Tyson was a quitter? Maybe. But so was Sonny and to a higher degree. Sonny not only flopped in the ring for the mob, Sonny also took a dive in life; overdosing on heroin. And Tyson never got ko'd in the first round.
NLR884evr 1 year ago
@NLR884evr - your lover was the worst kind of coward in the ring. Resorting to eating his opponent to make sure he was d.q.d immediately. What a pussy he couldn't even go the distance with Holyfield while a 42 year old Foreman did.
1899sharkey 1 year ago
@1899sharkey Hollyfield was an exceptional fighter as was Mike Tyson and Sonny Liston. But as the bible say's: All men are guilty and all far short of the glory of God. Did you know that Hollyfield, like James Toney and Roy Jones jr. had used anabolic steroids? All fighters have dirt, even Ray Robinson who notoriously ducked Charlie Burley. By interjecting a holier-than-thou attitude about Sonny Liston while simultaneously throwing Tyson under the bus only besmirches your own character.
NLR884evr 1 year ago
@1899sharkey You're 52 years old and still using profane language and juvenile insults to try and make a point !?! You're a disgrace, a boxing dilettante and rabble-rouser who's totally divorced from reality and posses not even a shred of civility.
NLR884evr 1 year ago
@NLR884evr- I usually dont reply to idiots like you but after reading your arrogant replys " now you think about what i said before you run your mouth" i felt the need to tell you how fucked up an individual you are. SIGNING OFF HAVE A PLEASENT EVENING.
1899sharkey 1 year ago
@1899sharkey You have zero credibility and articulate your muddled thoughts with all the grace and nuance of a third grader.
NLR884evr 1 year ago
@NLR884evr - Yeah Sonny worked for the mob and your boy Tyson knocked old ladies down and stole their purses. Which one took more balls to do? Tyson was a coward and his rectum sniffing fanboys aresimply in love with him. Sonny would have the bitch in trouble in the first and k.o. the coward in the second.
1899sharkey 1 year ago
@1899sharkey You don't think Sonny robbed old folks? You're naive. And for the record I don't think either had much intestinal fortitude. Both robbed people and both used drugs. As far as your comment about Mike being a "bitch" you wouldn't say that to his face so that makes you the bitch.
NLR884evr 1 year ago
Liston is BUILT. Just his presence is intimidating... he's like a bigger Tyson! (the young Tyson not the brash, headhunting Tyson) Now that's a really scary thought...
shakeNbake815 1 year ago
I am a Liston fan. Sonny was the Mike Tyson of his day, a lethal puncher who knocked out most of his opponents in the first round. I still think the two losses to Ali were fishy. Even after losing those two fights, Liston went on to win 14 fight in a row before dying in 1970.
BloozeDaddy76 2 years ago
I'd say Frazier was more like Tyson, powerful little brawler. Liston...well there's not many people we can compare him to, just a pure power puncher who'd smash ur face into a pulp. Maybe Valuev, but not really.
Bucketheadhead 2 years ago
He was better than Tyson.Tyson did nt fight all the top contenders until he was champ and guranteed the big pay.
GILLYRUTH 1 year ago 3
Liston's best weight was 212.
So many clueless comments here.
marcxopoco 2 years ago 9
@marcxopoco I agree and his opponents were mostly blown up Lt Heavies or cruisers.
Richdanahuff 1 year ago
@Richdanahuff Tyson kept his hands much lower than boxers Sonny faced. Sonny's main weapon was a left jab that broke through even the strongest of defences. Tyson, tough though he was, would not be able to withstand the punishment Liston's jab doled out. Look what Lennox Lewis' jab did to Tyson and that jab isn't anywhere near what Sonny's was.
awwwboys 1 year ago
@awwwboys What Tyson kept his hands high. here is a spin if Liston couldn't take Alis shots and yes there was alot of damage on Sonny after the 7 rds what makes you think he could handle Tysons power. I don't understand Liston power was displayed against small underpowered fighters however you rate the stength of the last 25 yrs of fighters even though they were fighting real heavies. How can they be compared?????
Richdanahuff 1 year ago
@Richdanahuff It wasn't Ali's power that beat Sonny, Ali had very little power! Sonny lost the fight to Ali long before he ever went into the ring. Liston destroyed many fighters that weren't "underpowered"-Ingemar Johansson, Willi Besmanoff to name but two. The minute Tyson came up against someone with a jab even half comparable with Sonny's jab he was destroyed. Tyson often kept his hands low, especially as rounds wore on.
awwwboys 1 year ago
@awwwboys Liston never fought Johanson the most powerful guy he ever fought was probably Williams and he stopped him early but then again Ali did also. I am not a Tyson fan per-sey but I do know how special he was as a fighter as long as he was managed just like anyone else. Sonny only KO'd 39 out of 50 wearing horse hair 6oz sol levinson gloves that had less protection than todays MMA glovves on the nuckles...how do you suppose those 11 undersized fighters got past his jab
Richdanahuff 1 year ago
@Richdanahuff So hold on, you're talking about Tyson who was trained by Cus D'Amato, one of the greatest ever, Tyson who was given every chance under the sun to prove himself,that "managed" comment is complete bs.you keep coming back to this thing of "undersized" but those 11 "got past him" because of superior speed and agility,they were still caught eventually.Tyson, unlike Liston, would go down like a bitch with a broken jaw too
awwwboys 1 year ago
@awwwboys Relax the scouting report on Liston was always the same he was slow. "Managed being BS" fighters with head problems have to be taken care while they make money the image the opponents the marketing is all deliberate even in Listons day. Yes 11 fighters went the distance some as small as 179lbs beat him and broke his jaw. Hell Leotis Martin was a soft 199 when he KO'd Sonny. And Tyson stood no chance LOLOL????
Richdanahuff 1 year ago
@Richdanahuff You really underestimate him by saying "he was slow",he was often deceptively quick.You're forgetting something really important about the Leotis Martin fight,it was in 1969!So Liston was in the 38-41 age bracket depending on which date you take as his birth.What was Tyson doing at that age?Losing to Kevin McCloud and generally being beat up on. Yes, Tyson would stand no chance
awwwboys 1 year ago
@awwwboys Hold on you compare a soft 199 lb Leotis Martin to a 6'6" 270 McBride neither one was that great but one was a helluva lot bigger and stronger than anything Sonny every fought. I don't underestimate Sonnys speed for a guy his size he could be average and overpower the cruiser heavies of his time. I never said he was a bad fighter or wasn't great for that matter. But IMO Tyson was an evolution in Heavyweights that noone before had ever seen.
Richdanahuff 1 year ago
@Richdanahuff Leotis Martin wasn't soft,Sonny could only fight what was around at the time but the fighters he faced were on average better than what Tyson faced. Just as you say Tyson was an evolution in Heavyweights, Sonny was a huge evolution 30 years earlier. IMO Sonny would still destroy him.
awwwboys 1 year ago
@awwwboys The evolutions in Heavies went Jack Johnson, Jack Dempsey, Joe Louis, Sonny Liston, Ali, and Tyson, Lewis. Foreman was a much bigger stronger Liston. Sonny was not fighting huge evolutionary heavies he was fighting the small fighters of the 50-60's. Martin was soft sort of a smaller Marvis Frazier and he KO'd Liston who was trying to fight for the title. Tyson was in it for the money and could care less about being champ again by the 90's.
Richdanahuff 1 year ago
@Richdanahuff I agree with the evolutions, at least we agree about something eh?haha! Altho Foreman was bigger and stronger, Sonny's jab and hooks were still comparable if not more effective. Liston may have been figting for the title but in his head he knew that after the phantom punch he had been blacklisted by the boxing authorities and had no chance of getting a title tilt.
awwwboys 1 year ago
@awwwboys Well noone can ever accuse prime Foreman of being technical he was actually kinda wild. Sonny was much more fundementally sound and controlled.
I really don't think Liston thought that deep about his situation after the phantom punch I am sure he thought he was through but several fighters tried to fight him that could have put him into contention I believe the Martin fight was going to put him in contention
Richdanahuff 1 year ago
@Richdanahuff I think most of Sonny's fights after the phantom punch were for what he called "eating money" nothing more. I think Sonny knew that after Frazier won the title in New York, a tilt would have been near on impossible. The Martin fight would have put him in contention but I don't know if Sonny ever thought that after such a long American hiatus and the controversy that still surrounded him
awwwboys 1 year ago
@awwwboys One of Listons real problems as well was he was very good, powerful and destructive but his personality was colorless. He did not fit into the time he was better suited for the modern thug idol era where being a thug is cool. Sonny could beat a lot of fighter but he was bad business for any promoter the time wanted a anti like Ali who was loud colorful and stood for something. Like Hulk Hogan Ali knew how to work the crowd Sonny didn't.
Richdanahuff 1 year ago
@Richdanahuff Yeah I agree Sonny was never given the press benefit because of his timing in entering the boxing world, the whole "meanest man on the planet" didn't suit Liston and wasn't really used until later on, especially for Tyson
awwwboys 1 year ago
@awwwboys The business side of the pros is what kills the excitement of competition.
Richdanahuff 1 year ago
@Richdanahuff: You overrate Tyson. He was no "evolution" or anything of the sort, IMO. He was a slow-footed, quick-handed power puncher who used upper body movement to slip punches. Big deal. Liston, a far more sophisticated offensive & defensive fighter, would've handed Tyson a sound drubbing. That power jab would've kept Tyson off-balance and the power shots to follow would've put Mike on the deck.
Kedbuka 1 year ago
@Kedbuka You must reaqlly dislike Tyson of you can't see how quick he feet were. Oh he would have destroyed 220 lb Tyson when little old Marty Marshall at 180 was breaking his jaw or the 11 other cruiser were going the distance with him.
Richdanahuff 1 year ago