Peter Joseph "When Normality Becomes Distortion" [LCL, Oct 2011] [The Zeitgeist Movement]

[Hitchhicker100]

An interesting talk but I had to re-listen to the idea that the notion of politics and political idealogies are detrimental to, and useless for, economic management and sustainability but then listen to a Marxist critique of why the present system is dysfunctional. Perhaps I'm missing something here(which wouldn't be unusual I must admit) but it seems to me that it's ok to criticise using Marxist orthodoxies(political) without claiming to be political. Hmmmm.....how very post-modern.

[Josephjoel3]

@SockeyTheSockPuppet But the fact remains how will we undermine and overwhelm the current paradigm? If we don't DO anything all our talk is useless. Knowledge without application is without merit. I agree that acting before thinking is detrimental, but it seems to me that Zeitgeist has the full force of logic behind it already. That's why it has produced films and has it's own youtube media channel so we have the logic, now it is time to act upon it.

[jonny7748]

I'm ready when you are.

[Josephjoel3]

Did you guys hear about the split between the zeitgeist movement and the venus project? That's because Peter Joseph believes in changing the mind, Jacques Fresco believes in changing the environment first. I say they are both wrong. There can be no changes as long as man's biology remains unaltered. I say there is no change. I claim that only genetic engineering can alter man's defective biology to produce a model man and a model woman thereby producing a model society.

[H1PBS]

@Josephjoel3 Look at the Kibbutz of Israel who have no police or violence or the Buid of the Philippines with their economic system based on equal sharing of wealth. It's evidently true that humans are capable of living in dramatically different types societies without the need to resort to eugenics.

[Josephjoel3]

@H1PBS Have you ever lived in a kibbutz? You are basing your response based on the sayings and generalizations of others. If the kibbutz is so great why don't the people there have something to say about the brutality of the world? The kibbutz itself is an affirmation of the brutality that is real, because it remains cut off and isolated from larger groups who really need such an environment. It is the privileged who enjoy the kibbutz not the despondent.

[H1PBS]

@Josephjoel3 One doesn't have to have lived in a place to be able to read accounts of others who have. It is well established that in the kibbutz "there is no policeman nor anyone like him". That's not to say that their society is "so great" rather that human beings are capable of fitting in to whatever society they are born into, be it a violent, greedy, selfish, corrupt one like ours or a more peaceful communal one like exists in many smaller societies throughout the world.

[Josephjoel3]

@H1PBS The question is how to translate that so called 'peace' if there is such a thing to every man woman and child? You see there is already an imposition inherent even in the statement. Should we force people to be peaceful? Personally I think there is no peace for mankind as it functions today. There has to be a physical change, a change in the thinking which is a physical phenomenon that has real physical effects. Are we ready for such an undertaking? Are you personally ready?

[H1PBS]

@Josephjoel3 Changes in thinking are not physical by definition. We have moved away from discriminating women, ethnic minorities etc. without the need for any "physical" change. The next stage is to move towards a society which rewards sustainable productive caring behaviour and rejects the opposite. Nobody will have to be "forced" to be peaceful if it is in their interest to be.

[Josephjoel3]

@H1PBS Is anyone interested in peace NOW? That's the basis of my whole inquiry. What are we interested in and doing NOW. Societies today have been built up over long years of entrenched belief and that has a tremendous weight and momentum. We are essentially living in a modified version of the past and call it the 'present'. There is no easy or clean way to solve this. The changes you mentioned are superficial. People are still barbaric and cruel wherever differences exist.

[H1PBS]

@Josephjoel3 Evidently many people do want peace now otherwise TZM and many other movements and charities wouldn't exist. People are beginning to demand change from the arab spring to the occupy movements. Indeed their is no easy solution but that does not mean we should give up. People are only barbaric and cruel when differences exist if they are uneducated. As people become enlightened to what really matters these differences are what will become superficial not the changes.

[Josephjoel3]

@H1PBS Thank You.

[Soulfree2008]

@Josephjoel3 science is entrapped withing the capitalist system as well, mostly employed by corporations to work on weapons or technology/ chemicals for industry. For profit, and cost efficiency...

[nistyboy32]

@Josephjoel3 Your last statement (human nature) is explained in depth in Zeitgeist: Moving Forward. If you haven't seen it yet, do so. If you have seen it already, I highly suggest you see it again and evaluate very carefully the 1st 3rd-half of the film. The pre-conceived, misconstrued non-empirical preachings that we have all been subjected to by the current established educational institutions do not go beyond the limited, outdated 'nature vs nurture' duality. Hit me back :)

[Josephjoel3]

@nistyboy32 But it seems to me we are dual beings. We say one thing and do another. I do not know you or Peter Joseph personally. But for myself I can honestly say my actions do not align with my logic. there is a disconnect as it relates to that movement. You see, this is outside the bounds of even education itself. I think that people fundamentally know the truth that they are living sordid lives but this logic is not able to overcome the reality that they have to function in their traps.

[nistyboy32]

@Josephjoel3 The thing is..the conditioning/programming by the system is so deeply embedded in our minds, consequently making it very difficult to explore a new train of thought. It's no ones fault. The system is like a cancer and ultimately the only way it can be cured at this stage in the evolution of human consciousness (the "group awakening" has only just begun) is by literally becoming the train of thought in and of itself and sharing it with others who are open-minded

[nistyboy32]

@Josephjoel3 In other words, the collective consciousness for a better world and the awareness of the true/physical reality around will translate the logic into action when there's enough people in the world that have fully embraced the new level of consciousness. The human race is one - no more nationalism or politics - that's the basis of the logic. A new economic model cannot be implemented until this is collectively realized by the mass consciousness

[Josephjoel3]

@nistyboy32 You see I've been browsing the TZM debunking sites and all of it is pure junk expect for ONE aspect that made me understand why those sites exist in the first place. Logic will not and has never appealed to mankind. Thing have to be done. What is TZM doing? I mean spreading dialougue on the internet and making videos will only go so far. We need to create surplus, feed and help those who are unfortunate. So it is the reverse. Logic has to follow action.

[4Brownie4]

@Josephjoel3 duuuude you're going way to far. Why not replace humans with robots in that case?

[Josephjoel3]

@4Brownie4 In response to your statement I think that is simple enough to say that man IS a robot. The formation of a society itself entails robotization on a mass scale in order to maintain coherence and establish a status quo. I also affirm that man is biological and physical construct completely divorced from such notions as the "mind". The only changes that are real are biological changes and without these the changes are superficial.

[AndrewDeneHelbig]

I love the title of this, it shows the weakening of our humanity, by us finding things that are completely wrong, the normality. Good presentation Peter, and TZM!

[MattSyTy]

People still label the shit outta everything like good little brainwashed ideologists do. This is about science, this is about sustainability. Everything else is irrelevant. If you can't understand the planet is a closed system and our values need to align with the scientific method, then you are part of the problem.

[marty2756]

Thanks Peter!, hope some day whole poeple could get out of the box...

[ddirtydave]

jeez,spit it out,this is just old communism and group think on parade,rename it,change it,,,it's all marxism.

[BigVic405g]

@ddirtydave please, don't call this Marxism, this would be an insult to Marx. The amount of rigorous theoretical work with Capital (Labor Theory of Surplus Value, Theory of Commodity Fetishism, Circulation of Capital, the History of the Working Day, and so on....) can't even be compared to this guy who decides to sprinkle in a little bit of Ron Paul on the FED, take a little bit of Zizek's apocalypticism, and top it off with some postmodern discourse. No attempts to resolve the contradictions.

[BboySmokey]

@BigVic405g Under the assumption that the 'contradictions' you are talking about, refers to the current self-destructive economy, then the resolution required is to go to the source of the problem. A profit-based socioeconomic system. Remove the incentive to create scarcity, cause environmental destruction and promote social dis-function, then there will be no reason for contradictions to exist.

[bonanzatime]

Why, 'Fundamentalist'? Because his interpretation of Reality (including the Bible) is quite 'Literal', to an Exaggeration . That's not to say, that it isn't half true. .. That's why it's interesting

[bonanzatime]

A 'Mystical Scientific Fundamentalist' has a very interesting point of view. 

[1skwacker117]

Good thinking material

[geoffhubbs1]

Thank you for your hard work, Peter !

[tulio84z]

Food for the mind. Good work Peter

[Zoulz666]

I approve this talk. Good work Peter. :)

[lastdayinsin3]

Only those of low intellectual "ability" use "WTF". Get off your high horse until you do some learnin' boy.

[AsaruKhem]

@lastdayinsin3 What a way to justify your bigotry. You who have no face = no courage, come on here and spew your mythological conspiracies and attempt to defame anyone who disagrees with your belief. You are the worst kind of human being and are the sole reason for the sluggish tempo of human progression.

[lastdayinsin3]

So I have to be a theist to think you're a self-righteous asshole?

[lastdayinsin3]

And if you think theists are the worst kind of human beings, you probably don't study serial killers too often.

[WeberBlocks]

Good wisdom ... Well explaint...

[gtechie]

ps - Great speech Peter, you are wise beyond our culture.

[gtechie]

Peter says that not all ideas are equal, meaning there is a natural order, like gravity that cannot be denied as less than fact. Under that premise he supports RBE as THAT natural order, and capitalism or democracy as a counter force to that order. I liken RBE then to a whirlpool and capitalism that force against the eventual outcome of the whirlpool. Under that premise is he simply supporting education to guard against our destruction before we reach the eventual outcome, RBE? Am I off here?

[ejpetersondub]

@gtechie i would explain it more like a RBE is a system for staying afloat in the whirlpool, while our current monetary system is fighting against it and treading water. humanity has a natural urge to survive, which drives us to do what it takes to stay afloat, but at the same time the cancer that is capitalism could drown us before we fully, as a species, understand how to stay afloat.

[bagiee1]

...great talk, as always... thnx for the upload...

[MattHolck]

sense of balance

sense of heat

sense of pain

sense of body position

are also physical senses we receive information through

[slimmworker]

TZM

[mohamedseleem]

as much as he would hate this comment, i do consider peter joseph a spiritual leader in the sense that he has helped me better understand my relationship to the universe around me

[ejpetersondub]

@mohamedseleem i disagree that he would hate this comment. i believe somewhere in the hundreds of video's ive watched he mentioned that he is not against spirituality and actually believes in it on a personal level.

[LifeofJakeBair]

Its sad that a video like this only has 4k views and nyan cat has 50million. america is stupid

[ewsflys]

I don't think it is a language problem whether people understand this or not. It is whether they are willing to admit that there is a problem. If you do, then you listen, then you learn, then you educate "yourself". its not about "believing", it is about understanding. And it takes time and building awareness. It did for me. And much of your infrastructure will call you an utopist. Its important not to get into the US and THEM" game, because thats the problem now. Its just US.There is no them!

[ejpetersondub]

@ewsflys you are absolutely right. none of this is about intelligence or stupidity. its about a yearning for the truth with an open mind and the never-ending pursuit of knowledge. those who seek it will find it, those who don't will stay in the abyss. its called ignorance.

[WJValente]

It takes courage to accept these idea's as the self-evident truth, but once one does, they realize that they are the most common sense approach there is..

[z90OoAluYsioNoO09z]

not just thinking as one, but the reality of living on a finite planet and acting as though we have infinite resources. Peter mentioned time is running out..and proven that this is true.

[Obinome]

Peter Joseph is my hero right now. I want to express the importance of his conclusion. When we think as one, we gradually remove the 'corrupt' conditions around us. We grow into the expression of love and peace.

[jeZza710]

i dig his voice..sophisticated, reassuring and confident..peter joseph FTW

[imslicc]

please watch fresco's weekly videos. everyone can be a great speaker:

/user/thevenusprojectmedia

[julesbenji]

I AGREE WE NEED TO "UNPLUG" MORE PEOPLE WITHIN THE SYSTEM TO STOP THEM BECOMING AGENTS FOR THE SYSTEM

WE CAN CATCH MORE FLIES WITH HONEY THAN WITH VINEGAR

[DJ232]

If anyone wants to read more about where these ideas came from, read "The Social Construction of Reality" by Peter Berger and Thomas Luckmann.

[ejpetersondub]

@DJ232 thanks for the recommendation, i have added that and "Making the Social World" to my amazon cart.

[z90OoAluYsioNoO09z]

I am a paid signature gatherer, a professional circulator for right now at least and I talk to hundreds of people a day, almost everyone of them thinks that they have freedom of choice. This is the most dangerous illusion and will be the biggest hurtle in getting people to begin to think critically about the way the system actually works.

[ejpetersondub]

@z90OoAluYsioNoO09z to pull a famous quote: "None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." -Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

[z90OoAluYsioNoO09z]

@ejpetersondub The quote is so ridiculously true it's not even funny.

[julesbenji]

smart ass comments and derogatory remarks often reveal how difficult it is for some people to overcome their own mental entrainment and become a "FREE-THINKER" a hostile response is similar to one how has been caught out telling a lie to themselves/others and revealed to be flawed / outlawed in thier own behaviour thier natural reaction is to attack the threat with any method at thier disposal in order to remove the threat. a calm rational person does not do this... be FREE and at peace...

[Youanden]

@myY0UTUBEchanneI Well, I too liked the documentaries, but I really became a part of this organization after watching the lecture series. If you find Peter's Channel on Vimeo, there are various lectures that take place in universities. Starting simple and watching them chronologically will help you understand 100%. My favorite was Social Pathology!

[julesbenji]

we all have a way of speaking weather socially or as in public speaking... some people accuse me of speaking "like a politician" when explaining certain things... we are all taught the rule of polite social interaction, which involves certain tones and lengthy explainations for some... it's great when u can use a parable or sound bite to explain a deep philosophy... its up to all of us to find the correct language to explain the sum 2+2=4 in every subject to enlighten each other

[ejpetersondub]

I know Peter has mentioned this source before, but the book "The Cancer Stage of Capitalism" by John McMurty goes pretty in-depth on the subject and i recommend if for anyone doing research on the subject or just interested in the Zeitgeist movement.

[ejpetersondub]

No matter how much I think I know, I always seem to know and understand a bit more every time Peter talks.  Thank you.

[Seventy4K]

enable ratings?

[MouseCaneta]

You sort of criticize him for using complex language, but that's the way he found to express himself correctly. Have you tried downgrading the linguistic skills and using simpler words to express the same idea? Maybe, there's a reason to speak this way.

[chrgjen]

@MouseCaneta I am pro Zeitgeist and TVP and i totally respect the right to express yourself the way you want. All i am saying is that if he wants to spead his ideas more broardly he should think about simplifying his message so that more people can understand what its about. By not addressing this his message is only perceived by those who can understand him.

[MouseCaneta]

@chrgjen I'd say that spreading his ideas is our job =)

When making a video about a subject one have to be very careful which words to choose, because he can be easily misunderstood and he won't be able to correct him self for each misunderstood point afterwards. But yeah, I agree with you that simpler words would reach more people but I also find it hard to do.

[chrgjen]

@MouseCaneta Yes. Spread his ideas. But only if you truly believe in them.

[MouseCaneta]

@chrgjen I wouldn't say believe, I woud say agree.

[chrgjen]

@MouseCaneta Agreeing with an idea sort of states that you also believe in it i would say. Although saying you agree with someone gives the impression that you have thought it through and have reached this conclusion yourself as aposed to simply believing.

[chrgjen]

For someone who seems very intelligent he sure has no clue about how to speak to everyday people. If he could downgrade his linguistic skills and use simpler words that are more common then maybe he could catch the attention of larger groups.

[MouseCaneta]

@chrgjen Why don't you try it?

[chrgjen]

@MouseCaneta To what are you refering?

[mgs29]

@chrgjen English is not even my first language and I don find this so difficult to follow

[chrgjen]

@mgs29 Okay. But maybe others do.

[ejpetersondub]

@chrgjen It's not like these idea's are simple. He has already simplified them. This IS the simplified version. The "everyday people" you speak of would not be watching this video. All of us who are at all interested in what Peter has to say cannot be coined as everyday people. Everyday people are indoctrinated, ignorant, disillusioned human beings who have no interest in change or expanding their knowledge base. They are too focused on their job as consumers.

[chrgjen]

@ejpetersondub Don't you like everyday people? They may be all the things you claim they are or they might not be. But let me understand you correctly. You accuse the everyday people of being ignorant, disillusioned, unchanegable people that don't want to expand their knowledge and yet these are the people this movement depends on to help enlighten more people? You may be intelligent but that does not give you the right to judge people. What good is high IQ if it does not serve your fellow man?

[ejpetersondub]

@chrgjen I like some, not most, but that is irrelevant. i accuse 'everyday' ppl of those things because it is true. that is the majority. when u no longer fit in with those traits i would no longer consider you an everyday person. anyone who supports a RBE is not an everyday person in my book. i would disagree with you that it is these kinds of ppl we rely on to spread enlightenment. rather we need the opposite. its an oxymoron to consider an ignorant person being relied on to enlighten others

[conceitarturo]

@ejpetersondub The everyday people are that way because they live in an enivroment ripe for bring out those qualities you dislike. Why hate the people? their ignorance is a symptom if anything, they have the potential to be anything. Peter is incredibly eloquent and I love to hear him, but he has stated his frustration at the stubbornness of "people at large", and it shows in how he handles himself. I do think we could use another voice less dismissive of those we are adressing.

[ejpetersondub]

@conceitarturo Nowhere in any of my comments did I say I hated "the people." Every sane person should disdain those vices' in other people. We can argue all night whether it is the environment or the people.I think it is a bit of both. if no one was ignorant many of the problems we have today would not exist. i believe our toxic society is more of a product of ignorance than the other way around. people in power can only perpetuate ignorance, they can't create it.

[ejpetersondub]

@conceitarturo Again, every sane person should feel at the very least extremely frustrated if not all out furious with the ignorance of the masses. it is only through their ignorance that has allowed religious atrocities to happen throughout our history up to today, and is certainly responsible for millions of needless deaths every year. how that conjures sympathy from you i will never understand.

[laitela01]

@ejpetersondub The knowledge does make me feel alone. People are so ignorant and wrapped to the culture.

[ejpetersondub]

@chrgjen ...not really sure why you would think that... I wouldn't necessarily consider myself a person of high intelligence, and none of those traits i mentioned have anything to do with intelligence. not sure where ure going with that. I don't need anyone to give me the right to judge ppl. perhaps you would fall under the illusion that people need to be given rights by a higher power in order to have opinions about other ppl. nothing i said had anything to do with not serving my fellowman

[cipihevent]

always pleased to hear some sanity

[webtweakers]

Wouldn't it be cool if all the occupy movements would fully understand this message and try to work towards a truly united world economy, which takes into account the fact that resources are (indeed) scattered all over the planet and need to be shared equally. A country is nothing more then a geographical location and a cultural inheritance. Besides that, we're all one.

[raultejedor]

I´d like to congratulate Peter for his work and share my hope that some how these logical ideas will prevail at some point on this pretty planet.

[Rhea303]

Peter Joseph is my voice.

[Sikamaster]

Corruption: Any force working within a system that affects negatively to the output of that system.

[karakzanreal]

Sorry to be pedantic but there is a difference between "invention" and "discovery".

The first creates something new and the second accurately describes something that already exists.

[Youanden]

@karakzanreal Or rather, there is no such thing as invention, as it is simply the rearrangement of what already exists.

[karakzanreal]

Though I agree with most of what the zeitgeist movement stands for I can't help but notice that use of "Complex" language like "Prima Facie". The problem is that ironically this provides an easy way of discarding the whole message at first glance because of the psychological mechanisms described in "8 Studies Demonstrating the Power of Simplicity".

[wda013]

any here capitalist ? any socialist ?

any here slaveholders ? any here slaves ?

---

" None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsly believe they are free. " -- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe (1749-1832) (Elective Affinities, 1809)

---

Sincerely hope, ALL here are *fighting* to end slavery.

--

" Physical slavery requires people to be housed and fed. Economic slavery requires people to feed and house themselves. "

[kkev1n]

Honest analysis.

[XAxiOhmX]

“All things are connected.

Whatever befalls the earth

Befalls the sons of the earth.

Man did not weave the web of life,

He is merely a strand in it.

Whatever he does to the web,

He does to himself.”

― Chief Seattle

[CingerNebojsa]

@XAxiOhmX That quote is wrongly attributed to Chief Seattle, but it's still beautiful and true.

[XAxiOhmX]

@CingerNebojsa Really? I didn't know that. How do you know its wrongly attributed?

[CingerNebojsa]

@XAxiOhmX Some research brings me to it being a quote that a screenwriter wrote for a screenplay in which someone plays that Chief. It also notes that the original Chief never said that.

That doesn't make what's said in it any less true :)

[WJValente]

If only everyone would realize that unless we are ALL healthy and prosperous, really then no one is.. We ALL need food, water, shelter, warmth, communication, transportation, etc. If the very basic human foundation of necessities isn't being taken care of, then we're in deep trouble.

[AsAmIaM84]

hey why ratings disabled?

[bondeluke]

Peter Joseph makes me proud to be human.

[somaticcinema]

Phew... I went back to my favorites and was like, "Where did it go?!!" Glad I found it again. :)

[SilverLadyBug999]

Peter Joseph is truly an intelligent man. 

[Zeyrion]

Can always do with another watch, favourite, tweet & FB post. :-)

[TZMOfficialChannel]

We apologize for the re-upload and the broken embeds. It was accidentally deleted in the back-end. :( TZM

[gabrielgabriel2000]

@TZMOfficialChannel no problem